Who is the favorite if Fed and Djok meet in Roland Garros? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who is the favorite if Fed and Djok meet in Roland Garros?

supercaspian
01-28-2008, 04:30 AM
Djok's baseline game looks more solid than Fed's, but Djok has been humiliated by Nadal every time they met on clay, while Fed is the only guy who's been a challenge to Nadal in RG for three years.

Bibberz
01-28-2008, 04:58 AM
I'll go with Federer. He moves better and he's in better condition. I would definitely root for Djokovic, though, and I would expect to see no less than 10 drop shots per set.

Alex999
01-28-2008, 04:59 AM
Novak for sure

Kolya
01-28-2008, 05:28 AM
Wait till the clay court season starts.

RogerFan82
01-28-2008, 05:34 AM
We'll know in Estoril, I guess !!!

Aloimeh
01-28-2008, 05:39 AM
I think Djokovic has already surpassed Federer on clay. But we'll see. He will really need to build up his endurance and perhaps modify his game a bit for it to work against Nadal. I wonder if mirroring Nadal's game is the solution on clay?

dragons112
01-28-2008, 05:40 AM
Federer obvisouly. Federer is not at his best atm, he needs a coach big time. Djoko is on a run atm who says hel be like this forever

dragons112
01-28-2008, 05:43 AM
I think Djokovic has already surpassed Federer on clay. But we'll see. He will really need to build up his endurance and perhaps modify his game a bit for it to work against Nadal. I wonder if mirroring Nadal's game is the solution on clay?

What makes you think this?:confused:

Aloimeh
01-28-2008, 05:47 AM
What makes you think this?:confused:

I just feel like his (Djokovic's) movement is very well adapted/adaptable to clay. Federer first won Wimbledon and then also the hardcourt slams, and it just feels like his success in the FO is more a result of hard work and talent in other respects than an innate feel for the surface.

I feel like Djokovic innately moves well on clay. Grass, however, seems to be an issue. He did quite well in Wimbledon but when he tried to continue the movement he had been doing on clay, he was slipping a lot.

dragons112
01-28-2008, 05:52 AM
[QUOTE=Aloimeh;6503628]I just feel like his (Djokovic's) movement is very well adapted/adaptable to clay. Federer first won Wimbledon and then also the hardcourt slams, and it just feels like his success in the FO is more a result of hard work and talent in other respects than an innate feel for the surface.

How many sets has roger lost on the way to the final since 2004?

Sunset of Age
01-28-2008, 06:00 AM
Feddie, if physically okay.

Aloimeh
01-28-2008, 06:02 AM
[QUOTE=Aloimeh;6503628]I just feel like his (Djokovic's) movement is very well adapted/adaptable to clay. Federer first won Wimbledon and then also the hardcourt slams, and it just feels like his success in the FO is more a result of hard work and talent in other respects than an innate feel for the surface.

How many sets has roger lost on the way to the final since 2004?

I don't know and I don't care. I just gave an opinion, which may be ill informed, but I'm not going to waste time thinking about sets lost and such. Roger simply hasn't produced the same level of success at RG as at the other slams. This is something undeniable. He's reached many semifinals/finals in the other three slams and won many of them, whereas he's only gotten to two RG finals and lost both (and it wasn't even close).

Now, I'm not going to compare Novak to Roger at the moment, as the difference between their accomplishments thus far is vast, but I would just point out that Novak has reached semis already at all 4 tournaments, 2 finals, and won one of the finals. He will always remain best at hardcourt - I am sure of that - but the fact that he already reached at age 20 both the FO and Wimbledon semis (and fell to Nadal in FO and was worn out/injured at Wimbledon when he retired) suggests that he is perhaps more innately versatile across the surfaces than Roger.

CooCooCachoo
01-28-2008, 06:16 AM
Uhm, you the thread is a bit precocious.

bokehlicious
01-28-2008, 06:17 AM
Let the dead king recover from that illness and he'll spank the arrogant brat again :devil:

trixtah
01-28-2008, 06:19 AM
It's hard to say. Both are great players on clay as well as great movers on the surface. Roger is very at home sliding but Novak is also equally adept and the clay only enhances his retrieval capability because of his tendency to slide. I think I have to give the slight edge to Novak at the moment simply because he is playing the more solid and consistent tennis which is rewarded on clay.

dragons112
01-28-2008, 06:46 AM
[QUOTE=dragons112;6503639]

I don't know and I don't care. I just gave an opinion, which may be ill informed, but I'm not going to waste time thinking about sets lost and such. Roger simply hasn't produced the same level of success at RG as at the other slams. This is something undeniable. He's reached many semifinals/finals in the other three slams and won many of them, whereas he's only gotten to two RG finals and lost both (and it wasn't even close).

Now, I'm not going to compare Novak to Roger at the moment, as the difference between their accomplishments thus far is vast, but I would just point out that Novak has reached semis already at all 4 tournaments, 2 finals, and won one of the finals. He will always remain best at hardcourt - I am sure of that - but the fact that he already reached at age 20 both the FO and Wimbledon semis (and fell to Nadal in FO and was worn out/injured at Wimbledon when he retired) suggests that he is perhaps more innately versatile across the surfaces than Roger.

He never dropped a set. When you sya the final is not even close you cleary do nt look at stats. In 2007 he lost each set by one breka only. However he had 17 break points and converted one. His first serve was at 53% along with 69 unforced errors. Should he win one more break point serve 60%and above and half the unforced errors he will win

HNCS
01-28-2008, 10:06 AM
now i know this thread wants to speculate the chances, but i think it implies the downfall of Rafa. i mean the 81 clay streak is not the result of some lucky draws or days.

now answering the question, federer. he DID grow up on clay and has been consistently the second best player on clay. it took perhaps the best clay courter of all time to stop roger 3 times at FO.

i don't know much about nole's skills on clay since i don't get to watch any matches played on clay in australia. so we'll have to see once the clay season starts.

KitinovRules
01-28-2008, 10:14 AM
If 100% healthy, Federer would beat Faker.
C'mon last year at RG the Faker got challenger draw and that's why he has come to the semis.
I would love him to draw some unseeded clay court specialist in the first two rounds, and you will see in fact how average he is on clay.

Dzordzzz!
01-28-2008, 10:35 AM
Djok's baseline game looks more solid than Fed's, but Djok has been humiliated by Nadal every time they met on clay, while Fed is the only guy who's been a challenge to Nadal in RG for three years.

Hard question...I would say Roger(he is afterall No.1) for now but in 1-2 years Djoker.Sadly Nadal could destroy them both:sad:

Ackms421
01-28-2008, 11:25 AM
ATM, I would have to say Novak. This is because of his level and Federer's of course. Federer is making a ton of UE, and his ground strokes are dropping so short. That will not do him any favors on clay. Also, Federer *is* a great retriever, but that's not what wins him matches on clay. It's his weapons. Degrade those by a notch, and he's not half the clay court player he was at his peak. I definitely don't see Federer making the FO final this year, but it *could* happens if he sneaks into the semis and beats Novak there. Whoever plays better on the day would take this match...

bokehlicious
01-28-2008, 11:31 AM
Novak is an all-court great. Fed is a clay mug. Enough said.

Andre'sNo1Fan
01-28-2008, 11:34 AM
Novak is an all-court great. Fed is a clay mug. Enough said.
Is your record player broken. Change the record, please.:rolleyes:

bokehlicious
01-28-2008, 11:36 AM
Andre#1tool :inlove: long time no read honey :hug:

no wonder you're back as soon as Roger fails to win a slam... :o

Andre'sNo1Fan
01-28-2008, 11:38 AM
I don't spend all my life here, I actually have a life ;)

Perhaps if you had one too you wouldn't spend your whole time dreaming about Federer.

bokehlicious
01-28-2008, 11:41 AM
Perhaps if you had one too you wouldn't spend your whole time dreaming about Federer.

Dreaming about Fed is actually quite a wonderful experience... :drool: Mmmmhhh wet wet dreams :inlove: :inlove:

Andre'sNo1Fan
01-28-2008, 11:46 AM
You're trying to be funny, well you're not so quit now.

bokehlicious
01-28-2008, 11:48 AM
Granted. I'll start talking about serve not being an actual tennis talent, for a change. Far more interesting ;)

theDreamer
01-28-2008, 11:55 AM
Novak is an all-court great. Fed is a clay mug. Enough said.

You're not being serious, are you? :confused:

Andre'sNo1Fan
01-28-2008, 11:56 AM
It would be better than the usual rubbish you talk, for sure...

bokehlicious
01-28-2008, 11:59 AM
You're not being serious, are you? :confused:

:shrug: I think I turn into a Djokotard :o :p

j/k ;)

trixtah
01-28-2008, 12:18 PM
You're not being serious, are you? :confused:

nah, he always attempts this same template humor that no one finds funny

l_mac
01-28-2008, 03:05 PM
We'll know in Estoril, I guess !!!

Is Nole defending Estoril?? I didn't think he was ...

I think Djokovic has already surpassed Federer on clay. But we'll see. He will really need to build up his endurance and perhaps modify his game a bit for it to work against Nadal. I wonder if mirroring Nadal's game is the solution on clay?

How has Nole surpassed Fed on clay?? The last time Nole played on clay he lost to Troicki :haha: :haha: Did you see the clay season last year? I have no idea what you base this on. Nole plays exactly the same way on all surfaces, so I suppose he's at least consitent. Federer has improved on clay over the years, his movement on clay is good.

I'd still give Fed the edge NOW, but if Nole has an amazing clay season I might change my mind.

How could Nole mirror Nadal's game? He plays like he does on clay because he grew up on the stuff and his game is a natural fit. That's not something you can mirror even if you are The World's Most Talented Player. :worship:

I just feel like his (Djokovic's) movement is very well adapted/adaptable to clay. Federer first won Wimbledon and then also the hardcourt slams, and it just feels like his success in the FO is more a result of hard work and talent in other respects than an innate feel for the surface.

I feel like Djokovic innately moves well on clay. Grass, however, seems to be an issue. He did quite well in Wimbledon but when he tried to continue the movement he had been doing on clay, he was slipping a lot.



I don't know and I don't care. I just gave an opinion, which may be ill informed, but I'm not going to waste time thinking about sets lost and such. Roger simply hasn't produced the same level of success at RG as at the other slams. This is something undeniable. He's reached many semifinals/finals in the other three slams and won many of them, whereas he's only gotten to two RG finals and lost both (and it wasn't even close).

Now, I'm not going to compare Novak to Roger at the moment, as the difference between their accomplishments thus far is vast, but I would just point out that Novak has reached semis already at all 4 tournaments, 2 finals, and won one of the finals. He will always remain best at hardcourt - I am sure of that - but the fact that he already reached at age 20 both the FO and Wimbledon semis (and fell to Nadal in FO and was worn out/injured at Wimbledon when he retired) suggests that he is perhaps more innately versatile across the surfaces than Roger.

There's one reason Roger hasn't won RG and he's in my avatar and my sig :rolleyes:

Not really. He had a very soft draw at RG last year. Rafa's reached a hardcourt semi earlier than Fed did, and the Wimbledon Final before Fed did - can I argue that he is more versatile? :rolleyes:

If 100% healthy, Federer would beat Faker.
C'mon last year at RG the Faker got challenger draw and that's why he has come to the semis.
I would love him to draw some unseeded clay court specialist in the first two rounds, and you will see in fact how average he is on clay.

:yeah:

Novak is an all-court great. Fed is a clay mug. Enough said.

You're not being serious, are you? :confused:

:haha: :haha:

Young Boss
01-28-2008, 03:27 PM
still has to be roger

siddy
01-28-2008, 03:31 PM
A) At this stage, based on their performances on clay in the past, it would be dumb to say that Novak has "bettered" Roger on clay. Maybe he'll have a terrific clay season, and things will be different, but right now calling Federer "clay mug" etc is SHIT, especially since he has been the second best clay player for the past two years (and second only to possibly the best clay courter of all time). Whether you accept this point or not doesn't change the facts.

B) The age argument is so old and faulty that it isn't even funny anymore. IF you've followed the sport for a number of years you would know that there are all kinds of players. There are those who reach their peak very early in their careers (Novak may or may not be one of those) and there are those who are just late bloomers (Federer obviously falls into that category). To extrapolate Djoker's achievements at this stage into the future and expect him to get better and better for the next 3 or 4 years is merely speculation at this point. To say Fed has X slams at 20 and Rafa/Djoker have Y slams at the age of 20 does not qualify as a solid statistic, considering the history of the game.

chjossic
01-28-2008, 03:39 PM
I agree Siddy ...a lot of speculation right now :)

Bernard Black
01-28-2008, 03:41 PM
Hmm, let me think...I'll take the 12 slam winning, 2 time finalist at the French Open and current world no. 1.

Wow, that was a tough decision :)

Farenhajt
01-28-2008, 04:32 PM
As people have already said, it's still hazy. Federer, in spite of being ever less able to switch to Jesus mode, is still a respectable force, while Novak is still going up like a lightning.

His RG Semis last year were his first Slam semis ever, so a factor of nerves must be taken into account. In spite of that, he managed to produce some very fine play against Nadal (has broken him twice in the first set). I expect his claycourt game this year to improve still (though maybe not so tremendously as fastcourt, which remains to be seen), and therefore against ExFed it should be close.

platinum
01-28-2008, 05:23 PM
Djokovic.

vincayou
01-28-2008, 07:23 PM
It would be 50-50. And both will be trounced by Nadal.

tennizen
01-28-2008, 07:36 PM
As people have already said, it's still hazy. Federer, in spite of being ever less able to switch to Jesus mode, is still a respectable force, while Novak is still going up like a lightning.

His RG Semis last year were his first Slam semis ever, so a factor of nerves must be taken into account. In spite of that, he managed to produce some very fine play against Nadal (has broken him twice in the first set). I expect his claycourt game this year to improve still (though maybe not so tremendously as fastcourt, which remains to be seen), and therefore against ExFed it should be close.

:haha:

trixtah
01-28-2008, 07:38 PM
Let's take a look at his natural tendency to slide which is complimented by the clay as well as his consistency at the moment which is rewarded by said clay. I think you would have to give Novak the edge at this moment.

Tnn74
01-28-2008, 08:54 PM
First off, this scenario will only happen before the Final,
because it is not a FO Final without Nadal :angel:
and although I am not a Federer fan, I am starting to
feel insulted by all of these Fed/Nole comparisons...
let it end :ras:

gogogirl
01-28-2008, 10:57 PM
Hey All,

I agree the odds might be right @ 50-50. I think they both move well on all surfaces really. In a way, I've concluded that Nole plays a lot of defensive tennis to start with, then he redirects the ball so well and turns the point into an offensive one better than most of the players on the tour. Roger still does it quite well too - but let's be honest here, Nole is catching up. And we know he has made Roger look a step slow and play the more defensive role.

I'd bet big bucks though that Roger will turn it around. May haps he'll win one and then the other will win one. It's called a rivalry don'tchaknow? Maybe it will happen.

In the article below - Nole is throwing the gauntlet down to both Rafa and Roger. I'll say! And let the games and trash talkin' continue in 2008.


http://www.smh.com.au/news/tennis/sobering-news-for-federer-nadal-as-djokovic-pledges-no-letup/2008/01/28/1201369037091.html

Federerhingis
01-29-2008, 12:26 AM
Well it's really hard to say at the moment. However in the hypothetical case, one would first have to look at their results on clay prior to reaching the Roland Garros final.

Now, Novak has a more compact baseline game and he is just as good a mover on clay as Roger. It would be an interesting match up. I think both prefer a medium or fast paced hard court surface. Novak gets the slight nodge.

Lucinda
01-29-2008, 12:34 AM
I'd go with Fed, but it's moot - Nadal will win in the end :D

rofe
01-29-2008, 01:24 AM
Let's take a look at his natural tendency to slide which is complimented by the clay as well as his consistency at the moment which is rewarded by said clay. I think you would have to give Novak the edge at this moment.

That is lateral movement but does that translate well to forward and diagonal sliding?

dragons112
01-29-2008, 01:26 AM
Fedz has not dropped a set on the way to rafa so fedz. Djokivic is overatted

Farenhajt
01-29-2008, 01:58 AM
That is lateral movement but does that translate well to forward and diagonal sliding?

He slides well in all directions. You probably didn't watch him that much during claycourt seasons lately.

Xristos
01-29-2008, 02:49 AM
Fed, because he wants it sooo bad.

Foxy
01-29-2008, 08:00 AM
60/40 for Nole.

trixtah
01-29-2008, 08:47 AM
That is lateral movement but does that translate well to forward and diagonal sliding?

He can slide in all directions pretty naturally

t0x
01-29-2008, 12:17 PM
Novak on paper has more solid groundstrokes, and can move equally as well as Federer.

However I think Federer could wear him down on clay, in best of 5. We shall see.

njorker
01-29-2008, 12:39 PM
Nole!!! :worship: :drool: :clap2: :bigclap: :yeah: :woohoo: :rocker: :banana: 'Nuff said.