The end of a period? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The end of a period?

Adler
01-25-2008, 11:33 AM
Now some people will diss me for making such thread, but I don't care. I also don't want it to be a bashing thread, but we'll see

Roger tried his best and lost. Bad luck? Not at all. Novak was looking more steady, solid and errorless during the whole match. It was visible like a black big dot on the sheet of paper that unless a turning point happens, nothing will prevent Djokovic from winning this one. I'm just surprised it happened in straights. Before this semifinal I was 75% sure Novak will win, so did some prominent users here (like scoobs for example)

Some people may make excuses... no proper preparation, virus, tougher oppostion, difficult draw, but that doesn't mean the goddamn thing. I believe something ends here. Roger's been winning Grand Slam and AMS tournaments. And he will continue to do so - maybe with even breaking Sampras's record of 15 GS won or 7 Wimbledons won - only this time he won't be winning them left and right, there will be no such domination over the next ranked players. Djokovic has been consistently raising his game - making it more multi-dimensional, cutting down UEs ratio, sharpening the backhand and so on. Now he's just collecting the rewards. And some others are waiting in line, constatntly improving: Murray, Tsonga, Cilic, Gulbis maybe, who knows, maybe Gasquet or Berdych will be late bloomers. There's alway Nadal waiting in the corridor, able to take advantage of the good draw on non-clay tournaments

What do you think, people?

FitDave
01-25-2008, 11:36 AM
He did never dominate, he was a lucky individual playing in a weak era until now

Marek.
01-25-2008, 11:36 AM
Last year definately foreshadowed that his dominance was ending but he'll definately still win grand slams.

scoobs
01-25-2008, 11:39 AM
To me he's now more Sampras-esque. A great player who will still win them - but is beatable on a given court on a given day.

The 2004-2007 era of virtual hegemony over the tour is just about over.

pascal'rG
01-25-2008, 11:40 AM
It's clear for me that Federer play worst in the end of 2007 that in the others years.
Youngster are not afraid of him and begin to find some keys, but if they win that's because he's not playing his best.
So yes could be the end of a dominance periode, if federer doesn't adapt to the new situation and work to have his best level back.

He will still be a GS winner and maybe n°1 but not so dominant.

tennisgal_001
01-25-2008, 11:45 AM
Now some people will diss me for making such thread, but I don't care. I also don't want it to be a bashing thread, but we'll see

Roger tried his best and lost. Bad luck? Not at all. Novak was looking more steady, solid and errorless during the whole match. It was visible like a black big dot on the sheet of paper that unless a turning point happens, nothing will prevent Djokovic from winning this one. I'm just surprised it happened in straights. Before this semifinal I was 75% sure Novak will win, so did some prominent users here (like scoobs for example)

Some people may make excuses... no proper preparation, virus, tougher oppostion, difficult draw, but that doesn't mean the goddamn thing. I believe something ends here. Roger's been winning Grand Slam and AMS tournaments. And he will continue to do so - maybe with even breaking Sampras's record of 15 GS won or 7 Wimbledons won - only this time he won't be winning them left and right, there will be no such domination over the next ranked players. Djokovic has been consistently raising his game - making it more multi-dimensional, cutting down UEs ratio, sharpening the backhand and so on. Now he's just collecting the rewards. And some others are waiting in line, constatntly improving: Murray, Tsonga, Cilic, Gulbis maybe, who knows, maybe Gasquet or Berdych will be late bloomers. There's alway Nadal waiting in the corridor, able to take advantage of the good draw on non-clay tournaments

What do you think, people?

No, Federer did NOT try his best (and I'm not saying if he did he would've won). Sampras has 14 Slams.

To answer the question, I don't think it's fair to cite this as "the end of an era". Federer is getting older, the "young guns" are maturing and their game is developing well. I can still see him finishing the year as world #1, winning Wimbledon and the USO as was the case in 2005. The only difference here would be that he won't win with AS MUCH EASE as he used to. It's a combination of many different factors, some of which are beyond Federer's control, others are only part of the natural process. You can only stay on top for so long. So in a way, yes he won't dominate as profoundly as he used to, and it's only normal, on the other hand if we look at the bigger picture in terms of W-L ratio, GS, AMS, tour titles, ranking, etc... he will still be on top in most departments. It depends on your perspective I guess.

goldenlox
01-25-2008, 11:47 AM
I thought 10 straight slam finals was his greatest record, after the consecutive Wimbledon streak.
This ends that run, and he really didn't look like the better player at any time tonight.
Federer looked very average tonight. I would expect Blake or Baghdatis to lose like that.

ivankg
01-25-2008, 11:47 AM
This was the first time that I was able to see in Djokovic eyes the full determination and self confidence. He was so "I`m the best player in the world at this moment" lookalike. Yes, I think this is end of an era. If Djokovic keeps his physical strenght and keeps improving his technique (and there are a free space for that), he will be No.1 till the end of a year since mentaly he is completely ready.

Adler
01-25-2008, 11:47 AM
No, Federer did NOT try his best (and I'm not saying if he did he would've won). Sampras has 14 Slams.

To answer the question, I don't think it's fair to cite this as "the end of an era". Federer is getting older, the "young guns" are maturing and their game is developing well. I can still see him finishing the year as world #1, winning Wimbledon and the USO as was the case in 2005. The only difference here would be that he won't win with AS MUCH EASE as he used to. It's a combination of many different factors, some of which are beyond Federer's control, others are only part of the natural process. You can only stay on top for so long. So in a way, yes he won't dominate as profoundly as he used to, and it's only normal, on the other hand if we look at the bigger picture in terms of W-L ratio, GS, AMS, tour titles, ranking, etc... he will still be on top in most departments. It depends on your perspective I guess.
1) Fed gave the best he could give today - that's what I meant
2) You're writing exactly what I wrote :)

FitDave
01-25-2008, 11:48 AM
STFU with your :retard: excuses He tried his best. Why the hell would he shout c'mon like a mini-Hewitt on some worthless points?:retard: get a grip

Scotso
01-25-2008, 11:51 AM
Federer is going to win a lot more slams, but this certainly helps Nole believe in himself as a potential #1.

Bibberz
01-25-2008, 11:53 AM
I would way rather see a triumvirate than a hegemony, so I hope you're right. I won't downgrade him to "Sampras-esque" yet, though.

To me he's now more Sampras-esque. A great player who will still win them - but is beatable on a given court on a given day.

The 2004-2007 era of virtual hegemony over the tour is just about over.

t0x
01-25-2008, 11:53 AM
What Fed has done the past few years is amazing and it was always going to end at some point.

I still see him taking about one slam a year though.

VolandriFan
01-25-2008, 11:56 AM
Roger still has one slam a year left in him for quite a few more seasons.

tennis2tennis
01-25-2008, 11:58 AM
Novak played well I'm not taking anything away from him...but SO FARRoger of 2008 doesn't look remotely like the roger of 2006 or 2005! so yes it looks like federer's skill is wayning...never had I seen Roger rely so much on his serve in a grand slam...hope he picks it up in time for the clay season!

RogerFan82
01-25-2008, 12:00 PM
The king will be back. He'll win more slams for sure.

tennis2tennis
01-25-2008, 12:05 PM
STFU with your :retard: excuses He tried his best.

did he? was that roger bringing out the A game?

Corey Feldman
01-25-2008, 12:12 PM
Not the end because i feel his form right now is not where it can be - if it was these young guns just having bigger and better weapons than him maybe, but no way is that the case

he should have kept improving and not gone backward like he did in this Championship - he looked half a step slower to me as well

but he'll realize that now

Bibberz
01-25-2008, 12:14 PM
No, that was Roger trying (in vain) to bring out his "A" game. There's a difference.

It's not the end of the world. He'll have every meaningful record before he retires. Just concede that he was, as Mary Carillo put it, "comprehensively beaten."

did he? was that roger bringing out the A game?

scoobs
01-25-2008, 12:19 PM
did he? was that roger bringing out the A game?

There's a world of difference between not trying your best, and trying but not being able to deliver your best.

Anyone who thinks Roger genuinely wasn't giving it his all out there is deluded.

Bibberz
01-25-2008, 12:22 PM
Yup. One of the things that makes Roger so great is that he makes everything look effortless. He was trying like hell. He was trying and he was getting some looks at break points. Djokovic just came up with the goods. Fair play.

There's a world of difference between not trying your best, and trying but being able to deliver your best.

Anyone who thinks Roger genuinely wasn't giving it his all out there is deluded.

tennizen
01-25-2008, 12:45 PM
Agree with the OP. He will still win slams though. Its really unwise to expect three slams a year and 4 slam finals from now on. But he is the GOAT anyway in my opinion

asher_langley
01-25-2008, 01:21 PM
I think Fed still got it in him. He is so far the more consistent player in all surfaces, even if he doesn't have a RG yet. 3-4 years of high level play will count on his resiliency. I think that is also part of being on the top, it's not entirely about winning but getting back to win again.

But now, he's got to watch out for two people behind now.

TheBoiledEgg
01-25-2008, 01:26 PM
his best ???? :rolls: :tape:
he was only about 30% of his level

Shabazza
01-25-2008, 02:06 PM
I'll wait till the end of the season to make any judgement. We've all been beating this "end of Federer" - talk to death, time and time again and he always bounced back.

shaggy
01-25-2008, 02:11 PM
the atp race will show us at the end of 2008, but i don't see federer on top of it.

Corey Feldman
01-25-2008, 02:11 PM
he was only about 30% of his levelCrap wasnt it

his attitude wasnt good during the whole event as well, maybe that went hand in hand

anyhow, not to take anything away from Djoko... he was solid enough to take the chance most others have not, lately.

doddel
01-25-2008, 05:16 PM
I think it is time to dump Mirka

l_mac
01-25-2008, 05:41 PM
There's alway Nadal waiting in the corridor, able to take advantage of the good draw on non-clay tournaments


This line made me laugh so hard. Even in a thread that has nothing to do with him, a way will be found to do him down :haha:

As for the question - unlikely. He'll still dominate most of the Slams IMO.

Foxy
01-25-2008, 05:52 PM
RG08, will be critical for him. If he don't win it this year, he never will. And it will put Wimby and USOpen's hopes in jeopardy. We already saw he is vulnerable enough there too.

tennisgal_001
01-25-2008, 06:09 PM
RG08, will be critical for him. If he don't win it this year, he never will. And it will put Wimby and USOpen's hopes in jeopardy. We already saw he is vulnerable enough there too.

I can't see how that's relevant.

LleytonMonfils
01-25-2008, 06:13 PM
Wait for Wimbledon. That is going to be the real key to this puzzle. If he falters there then we can start talking about Federer Faltering as the King of the Jungle. Until then put that stuff on hush mode.

I'm not a big Fed fan by any means, but I respect the guy. Don't be shocked if he wins Roland Garros. Just cements his whole career right there.

rosamunda
01-25-2008, 06:59 PM
If he'd lost today playing his A game, then perhaps it would be fair enough to start wondering. But he didn't bring his A game; he brought at best his B- game and he rightly lost. His form has gone up and down over the last year and, in my book, it's been partly psychological rather than a physical wane. He played topnotch stuff in the latter stages of Shanghai last year and, 2 months later, he's playing comparative crap. There's no reason to think that he won't find his form - and his "attitude" - again sooner rather than later. If his being off continues for any length of time, then maybe it will be the start of a true decline. But it's seriously premature to start thinking that way yet but, of course, that always happens when he hits a dip.

RonE
01-25-2008, 07:26 PM
Last year definately foreshadowed that his dominance was ending but he'll definately still win grand slams.

Exactly. It's not as if someone magically snapped their fingers and "poof" with this loss came the end of an era.

This decline has been continuing steadily for the better part of one year since right after the 2007 AO.

Like many people said, he will still probably win some more slams and AMS titles but he won't be making every single final in every single tournament he plays in.

He will also probably lose the #1 ranking soon for at least a while and for the foresseeable future that position will be a 3 way tussle between him, McNoleo and Rafa.

NinaNina19
01-25-2008, 07:37 PM
Federer was not even close to playing his best. I gaurantee you the Federer of 2006/2005 would have defeated Novak. Maybe not in straights but would have gotten the job done none the less. Federer was not playing well and making many unforced errors.

tennisgal_001
01-25-2008, 07:43 PM
If he'd lost today playing his A game, then perhaps it would be fair enough to start wondering. But he didn't bring his A game; he brought at best his B- game and he rightly lost. His form has gone up and down over the last year and, in my book, it's been partly psychological rather than a physical wane. He played topnotch stuff in the latter stages of Shanghai last year and, 2 months later, he's playing comparative crap. There's no reason to think that he won't find his form - and his "attitude" - again sooner rather than later. If his being off continues for any length of time, then maybe it will be the start of a true decline. But it's seriously premature to start thinking that way yet but, of course, that always happens when he hits a dip.

I agree. We need to wait till the grass/US hardcourt season before making a sound judgement here. I think many people are getting carried away, they're forgetting that we've seen rough patches like this one, even worse, over the past year or so: IW, Miami, Rome, to name a few. He always finds a way to rebound. And since his #1 ranking won't be in serious jeopardy for another 5-6 months at least, there's less pressure on him to perform for a change. This could be a refreshing loss in a strange way.

JediFed
01-25-2008, 07:47 PM
I can't see how anyone says it was a blowout, the scores are deceptive.

Fed lead in the first and should have closed out.

Fed broke back once and nearly broke nole a second time in the second when he lead the charge from 1-5 to 3-5 40 40.

Then he lead Nole 0-40 at the start of the third, had 3 sp's at 6-5. Soo many opportunities. Fed's level has dropped from the USO, not to mention the AO from last year. So we shall see what he decides to do about it.

As for 'dominance', it's too early to crown Nole just yet. He beats Tsonga, then we talk. It's like Nalby. The man's done well but he has to get it done against Tsonga, who is playing out of his mind. Nole is number 2 among the "new balls", (Rafa is number 1), but this is now a battle to see who will hold that position.

Alonsofz
01-25-2008, 08:43 PM
Why when Federer loses do these threads appear?

Horatio Caine
01-25-2008, 08:55 PM
The end of utter dominance, probably. However, it is easy to get a little carried away. Nadal and Djokovic have closed the gap on him quite considerably, over the last 12 months, but no other player has really done that. Sure, Fed will probably lose to a few other guys over the course of the year, but I'd still expect those to be fairly isolated defeats. Many will give themselves a better shot against him, but that won't necessarily translate into any better progress from what they've already achieved in past matches against him.

*Ljubica*
01-25-2008, 08:57 PM
Roger is still the best player out there in my opinion, and still has a few Slams left in him I'm sure. He didn't play his best this tournament (maybe lack of proper preparation and no tournarnents prior to the AO :shrug: ) and yet he still managed to reach the semis. I agree that players like Djokovic and Tsonga are improving daily, gaining in maturity, and maybe become less scared of Roger's invincible "aura", but that is a good thing I think - for tennis and for Roger too, as it will spur him on and give him something more to work for and aim for.

I don't think it's the end of Roger or anything like that, but I do think it could be the start of a new period where more exciting young players can challenge for Grand Slams - Djokovic, Tsonga, maybe Andy Murray, Berdych, Gasquet, Youzhny ............ there are so many great players out there. Hopefully it will be the start of something great :)

l_mac
01-26-2008, 01:42 AM
I don't think it's the end of Roger or anything like that, but I do think it could be the start of a new period where more exciting young players can challenge for Grand Slams - Djokovic, Tsonga, maybe Andy Murray, Berdych, Gasquet, Youzhny ............ there are so many great players out there. Hopefully it will be the start of something great :)

Don't forget your special favourite Rafa!