AO Rd 4 - Mathieu Retires - Nadal wins 6/4 3/0 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

AO Rd 4 - Mathieu Retires - Nadal wins 6/4 3/0

Kolya
01-20-2008, 10:26 AM
Wow!

tennisgal_001
01-20-2008, 10:26 AM
Left leg strain.

Rogieva
01-20-2008, 10:26 AM
Fix.

Allegretto
01-20-2008, 10:27 AM
What a pathetic coward this Mathieu. Someone should have handed him a white flag to wave.

TheBoiledEgg
01-20-2008, 10:27 AM
mental midget if ever there was one.

how much does Nadal pay these guys to withdraw ???

The Pro
01-20-2008, 10:28 AM
For hell's sake. I was all ready to watch this match, quiet day at work, good live-stream.

Then Mugtheiu retires. :mad:

Vamos Rafa! Get a good rest! :)

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 10:28 AM
Never has a Grand Slam title-run been so disgraceful

spriwi
01-20-2008, 10:28 AM
rafa meets jarko in the QF now, lloks like not much of a play to reach GS SF :rolls:

what he needs to top his cakewalk draw is tsonga beating misha :D :D :D

Allstar
01-20-2008, 10:28 AM
What a letdown. You could tell he was well off the pace though and there just wasnt the bite behind his strokes

dijus
01-20-2008, 10:29 AM
lol

nobama
01-20-2008, 10:30 AM
What was wrong with him?

The Pro
01-20-2008, 10:30 AM
Nadal has a nice draw, so what. He gets the odd awful draw now and again as well. And he always seems to find one of his big hitting nemeses on the way. Yet still it's all luck luck luck. Such resentment!

Nadal owns Mathieu anyway. The match was his.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 10:31 AM
:rolleyes:

Nadal served well - 93% 1st serves in.

What was wrong with PHM?

acionescu
01-20-2008, 10:31 AM
rafa meets jarko in the QF now, lloks like not much of a play to reach GS SF :rolls:

what he needs to top his cakewalk draw is tsonga beating misha :D :D :D

May God hear you but...unlikely! ;)

mdjenders
01-20-2008, 10:31 AM
What a joker. You know Koubek would have at least tried to win.

TheBoiledEgg
01-20-2008, 10:32 AM
the trainer should have rubbbed PHM's head instead of his legs when he came out :tape:

Bilbo
01-20-2008, 10:33 AM
lmao

cakedraw for nadal

cc2monac
01-20-2008, 10:33 AM
congrats rafa and sorry for PHM...

juninhOH
01-20-2008, 10:33 AM
hahaha I thought Nadal's draw was easy, but that's TOO MUCH!!!!

Action Jackson
01-20-2008, 10:34 AM
He was under the pump in the Koubek match and getting stretched from side to side for 4 hours, well it looks like the tank was empty.

tennisgal_001
01-20-2008, 10:34 AM
Left leg strain, apparently he sustained it in Sydney (or was it Auckland that he played?)

Lucinda
01-20-2008, 10:35 AM
What a joker. You know Koubek would have at least tried to win.

Yeah, that would have been a good match :(

Bilbo
01-20-2008, 10:35 AM
mathieu was lucky to get past koubek

yana
01-20-2008, 10:36 AM
Great match Nadal!!! :p

Corey Feldman
01-20-2008, 10:37 AM
:lol: what a wimp

you can see in his eyes after 5 minutes he's got no bottle for playing Nadal

Mechlan
01-20-2008, 10:38 AM
Weak of PHM to retire like that unless something more was bothering him than I could see.

Nadal was on top of his game though, if he plays like that he can certainly win the title.

Art&Soul
01-20-2008, 10:39 AM
Lucky piggy, PMH :o

mickymouse
01-20-2008, 10:39 AM
The trainer was already called for after 3 games...one could sense then that this wouldn't be much of a match. But still, I think even Wilander was surprised to see him retire so abruptly.

scoobs
01-20-2008, 10:39 AM
Disappointing.

Sean.J.S.
01-20-2008, 10:40 AM
Ooommmggg!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

RogiRafaFan86
01-20-2008, 10:40 AM
Well damn. Got up before 6 AM on a Sunday to watch that. Oh well. It was fun while it lasted. Could have been a bagel in the works. Not the biggest fan of PHM, and it wasn't really noticeable to me that he was hurting. Had it not been for seeing the trainer, I would have never suspected. No question from the word 'go' who was going to win that. With the way Rafa was serving (wish he could get that high of a first serve % all the time, heck even most of the time), it was his. It's just a shame he got stopped when he was really getting going, and the match was quickly turning into target practice. Oh well. Nieminen awaits...who is not to be taken lightly.

Bibberz
01-20-2008, 10:41 AM
I'm reminded of the aftermath of the 06 French Open when Mats Wilander said Federer "didn't have balls" (against Nadal). I wonder what Mats thinks of PHM right about now....

l_mac
01-20-2008, 10:42 AM
Well damn. Got up before 6 AM on a Sunday to watch that. Oh well. It was fun while it lasted. Could have been a bagel in the works. Not the biggest fan of PHM, and it wasn't really noticeable to me that he was hurting. Had it not been for seeing the trainer, I would have never suspected. No question from the word 'go' who was going to win that. With the way Rafa was serving (wish he could get that high of a first serve % all the time, heck even most of the time), it was his. It's just a shame he got stopped when he was really getting going, and the match was quickly turning into target practice. Oh well. Nieminen awaits...who is not to be taken lightly.

Love the quote in your sig :haha: Best of the year so far.

Bilbo
01-20-2008, 10:42 AM
PHM = wimp

tennisgal_001
01-20-2008, 10:44 AM
On paper, Nadal's path to the SF seemed relatively easy, but this is getting ridiculous.

HNCS
01-20-2008, 10:45 AM
even though nadal was going to win the match, this is just way to much luck.....:worship: Uncle Toni

but nadal seems to be in good shape.

MrChopin
01-20-2008, 10:45 AM
Congrats to Rafa for absolutely blitzing Mathieu, from serve and the ground. Mathieu had that pathetic wide-eyed panic look from the start of the match and Rafa took total advantage for 13 games. I think Mathieu had one point in the second set. I didn't even hear Rafa use a single vamos, even only a few fist pumps.

However, the man most deserving of congratulations right now is Uncle Toni, and boy was he smiling it up at the end of this one. This draw has to be the biggest piece of cake ever. Nadal has spent a whopping 7.5 hours on court thus far. When the winner of (14)Youzhny/Tsonga is your last (and only) line of defense, something has gone horribly wrong (or right).

Jade Fox
01-20-2008, 10:45 AM
BOOOOOOO to PHM! Very unspartanlike!:mad:

Oh well, at least the real Spartan is still in it. Go Nadal!:rocker2:

Exodus
01-20-2008, 10:45 AM
youtzny is going to finish nadal off like in chennai.

tennisgal_001
01-20-2008, 10:46 AM
I'm reminded of the aftermath of the 06 French Open when Mats Wilander said Federer "didn't have balls" (against Nadal). I wonder what Mats thinks of PHM right about now....

"Too big" :yeah:

allero
01-20-2008, 10:49 AM
youtzny is going to finish nadal off like in chennai.
Only if Rafa takes 8 hours to beat Jarkko.

acionescu
01-20-2008, 10:49 AM
Love the quote in your sig :haha: Best of the year so far.


I still remember the historical moment when he found this gem :worship:

Exodus
01-20-2008, 10:51 AM
Only if Rafa takes 8 hours to beat Jarkko.

youtzny is way too powerful for nadal to handle what a shame that the onlu player that could have beaten nadal retired today.

what a cakewake draw it's patchetic

Jimnik
01-20-2008, 10:51 AM
Well I guess we can't complain after being spoilt with thrillers over the last few days. Today certainly made up for it.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 10:52 AM
On paper, Nadal's path to the SF seemed relatively easy, but this is getting ridiculous.


I know! I haven't seen luck like this since Fed's Wimbledon draw last year :)

Bilbo
01-20-2008, 10:53 AM
youtzny is way too powerful for nadal to handle what a shame that the onlu player that could have beaten nadal retired today.

there's a difference between a normal tournament and a grand slam. mathieu is not a typical grand slam player.

allero
01-20-2008, 10:53 AM
youtzny is way too powerful for nadal to handle what a shame that the onlu player that could have beaten nadal retired today.

what a cakewake draw it's patchetic
It's of course possible that Youzhny beats Nadal. But don't expect a blowout like in Chennai.

NevaNadal
01-20-2008, 10:54 AM
On ESPN 2 they showed Uncle Toni with a big grin on his face after Mathieu retired :D

Even he can't believe Rafa's luck thus far.

sammy01
01-20-2008, 10:58 AM
that was sad! he pulled out because he knew he couldn't win not because he couldn't play, if every player did that there would be no point in half of them stepping on court.

elessar
01-20-2008, 10:58 AM
I know! I haven't seen luck like this since Fed's Wimbledon draw last year :)

That is such an obvious bait that I'm going to take the high road on this on.... or maybe not:p
Roger's proved time and time again that he doesn't need an easy draw to win wimbledon, something I can't say about Nadal in hard court slams ;)
PS: long time no see :wavey:

That said Nadal served very well today, not only in terms of percentage but he was mixing it more than usual.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 10:59 AM
lmao

cakedraw for nadalStory of this year's AO

mickymouse
01-20-2008, 11:00 AM
I know! I haven't seen luck like this since Fed's Wimbledon draw last year :)
You forgot about Nadal's Wimbledon draw in 2006. ;)

MariaV
01-20-2008, 11:02 AM
rafa meets jarko in the QF now, lloks like not much of a play to reach GS SF :rolls:

what he needs to top his cakewalk draw is tsonga beating misha :D :D :D

Well who knows what might happen. Tsonga seems to be on a real hot streak and Misha is not a paragon of stability. :shrug:

Cat123
01-20-2008, 11:08 AM
:tape: No comment.

Vamos Rafa!! :devil:

l_mac
01-20-2008, 11:09 AM
That is such an obvious bait that I'm going to take the high road on this on.... or maybe not:p
Roger's proved time and time again that he doesn't need an easy draw to win wimbledon, something I can't say about Nadal in hard court slams ;)
PS: long time no see :wavey:

That said Nadal served very well today, not only in terms of percentage but he was mixing it more than usual.

Why don't you come to the chat thread anymore? I see you lurking ..... :sad:

I don't think any of the top seeds have a particularly hard draw now, the way things have worked out. Don't ask me to feel bad about Federer having Nole in his half - Rafa played him 7 times last year. And 3 times was in Nole's Slam half. Anyway Rafa worst hardcourt match up (apart from Blake, IMO) is still there, waiting for him if he lucks a win against Nieminen.

You forgot about Nadal's Wimbledon draw in 2006. ;)

I think you'll find that was before Wimbledon 2007, and I was remembering the last cakewalk draw I saw. Wait, Roger's USO 2007 draw was pretty laughable too.

acionescu
01-20-2008, 11:14 AM
I know! I haven't seen luck like this since Fed's Wimbledon draw last year :)

Maybe the story of last year Wimbledon is repeating here: Roger had a easier draw, a lot of rest, was not the best player in the final but won. Hopefully the history can be the same for Nadal! :p

mickymouse
01-20-2008, 11:15 AM
Why don't you come to the chat thread anymore? I see you lurking ..... :sad:

I don't think any of the top seeds have a particularly hard draw now, the way things have worked out. Don't ask me to feel bad about Federer having Nole in his half - Rafa played him 7 times last year. And 3 times was in Nole's Slam half. Anyway Rafa worst hardcourt match up (apart from Blake, IMO) is still there, waiting for him if he lucks a win against Nieminen.



I think you'll find that was before Wimbledon 2007, and I was remembering the last cakewalk draw I saw. Wait, Roger's USO 2007 draw was pretty laughable too.
Looks like Djokovic is now the deciding factor for what makes a cupcake draw.

your_valentine
01-20-2008, 11:19 AM
:o

l_mac
01-20-2008, 11:20 AM
Looks like Djokovic is now the deciding factor for what makes a cupcake draw.


Sure. That means Rafa didn't have one last year ('cept at the French where all Rafa's matches are easy) so was due!

HeretiC
01-20-2008, 11:30 AM
We got spoiled by those 5 setters. Anything less then 3 hours looks pathetic to me now. IMO PHM could have finished the match if he wanted to without risking further injury. He looked more like nothing left in him then injured.

stebs
01-20-2008, 11:33 AM
I think you'll find that was before Wimbledon 2007, and I was remembering the last cakewalk draw I saw. Wait, Roger's USO 2007 draw was pretty laughable too.

Roger's USO 2007 draw? Are you crazy?

Lopez played one of the best matches of his life. After that he faced Roddick and Davydenko to get to the final, two top 5 players. That's not cakewalk in any sense pf the word.

adee-gee
01-20-2008, 11:35 AM
Paulo :hug:

:lol: the Fedtards are getting a bit riled that Nadal has the chance to do well here. It's pretty undeniable that he's had a belter of a draw, but it's his first since Wimbledon 06 that I can remember. He had some horrible draws last year.

Anyway, Nieminen shouldn't be underestimated he's having a good year so far. I expect Rafa to win, but he's going to have an extremely tough match against Youzhny or Tsonga, who both have the game to beat him big time.

Foxy
01-20-2008, 11:38 AM
Oh, come on, guys, you've got Youzhny to rely on. :)
Don't get upset!

Seriously Rafa deserves some easy draws now and then. It's difficult to be seeded second and face some tough competition in early rounds.

On second thought this Tsonga is really good. He swept aside some big favourites.

acionescu
01-20-2008, 11:39 AM
Roger's USO 2007 draw? Are you crazy?

Lopez played one of the best matches of his life. After that he faced Roddick and Davydenko to get to the final, two top 5 players. That's not cakewalk in any sense pf the word.


Yes, Roddick and Davidenko two players that showed no mercy against Federer until then! :haha:

stebs
01-20-2008, 11:39 AM
Paulo :hug:

:lol: the Fedtards are getting a bit riled that Nadal has the chance to do well here. It's pretty undeniable that he's had a belter of a draw, but it's his first since Wimbledon 06 that I can remember. He had some horrible draws last year.

Anyway, Nieminen shouldn't be underestimated he's having a good year so far. I expect Rafa to win, but he's going to have an extremely tough match against Youzhny or Tsonga, who both have the game to beat him big time.

At the end of the day to reach a GS final you have to beat 6 players all of whom have earned their place in whatever round you face them. Yes some draws are harder than others and Nadal has got an easy one but so be it. It's incredibly childish to whine because your favourite players rival has got a good draw. At the end of the day you need to beat the guy who came through the tougher draw as well so in terms of winning the whole thing it shouldn't be so big an issue.

esther
01-20-2008, 11:43 AM
IMO PHM could have finished the match if he wanted to without risking further injury. He looked more like nothing left in him then injured.

yeah i agree. maybe its hard to tell as a spectator but he really didnt look like he was in that much pain. When the physio came out after a few games, all he did was give him a massage. tiredness over injury i think

Forehander
01-20-2008, 11:43 AM
one of the easiest grandslam draw i've seen yet haha

l_mac
01-20-2008, 11:43 AM
Roger's USO 2007 draw? Are you crazy?


Oh, stebs. But if we're going to play, Rafa was due to meet them QF and SF (same stage as Roger) but when the draw was made it was a total cakewalk for Rafa .... :shrug:

Haters can't have it every way.

(I know you're not a hater, and I was kidding about Fed's USO draw)

Foxy
01-20-2008, 11:46 AM
Stebs, what match did Lopez play? He is a good guy but he has no backhand at all. How could he beat Roger?
The prevoius round - John Isner?!? Oh my god, he made tons of tons of errors and got broken one hundred times and roger didn't have to move a finger.

l_mac, i am not kidding :)

Castafiore
01-20-2008, 11:46 AM
Lopez played one of the best matches of his life. After that he faced Roddick and Davydenko to get to the final, two top 5 players. That's not cakewalk in any sense pf the word.
Nope. That's only a cakewalk when they're in Rafa's side of the draw by MTF standards.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 11:52 AM
Stebs, what match did Lopez play? He is a good guy but he has no backhand at all. How could he beat Roger?
The prevoius round - John Isner?!? Oh my god, he made tons of tons of errors and got broken one hundred times and roger didn't have to move a finger.

l_mac, i am not kidding :)

Lopez played really well against Federer at last year's USO, but Federer's draw was a joke. No-one ranked inside the Top 40 until QF, and his first 3 opponents weren't ranked inside the Top 100. Then of course he had his tough matchups Roddick and Davydenko. What was he then? A combined 22-1?

stebs
01-20-2008, 11:54 AM
Oh, stebs. But if we're going to play, Rafa was due to meet them QF and SF (same stage as Roger) but when the draw was made it was a total cakewalk for Rafa .... :shrug:

Haters can't have it every way.

(I know you're not a hater, and I was kidding about Fed's USO draw)

I think in this thread people are sayng about what Nadal's draw has become, not what it was originally. Yes there were people saying things earlier but you will always get that. The draw Nadal has ended up with this tournament is a huge amount easier than Roger at USO '07.

stebs
01-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Then of course he had his tough matchups Roddick and Davydenko. What was he then? A combined 22-1?

When you have a good record vs 99% of the tour and about 75% of good hardcourt players are severely dominated in the H-2-H you are always going to see this.

anon57
01-20-2008, 11:58 AM
Shame Mathieu couldn't provide more of a match. Congrats to Nadal

HNCS
01-20-2008, 12:00 PM
Yes, Roddick and Davidenko two players that showed no mercy against Federer until then! :haha:

if you want to put it that way, then virtually all draws are easy for federer. :rolleyes:

l_mac
01-20-2008, 12:01 PM
I think in this thread people are sayng about what Nadal's draw has become, not what it was originally. Yes there were people saying things earlier but you will always get that. The draw Nadal has ended up with this tournament is a huge amount easier than Roger at USO '07.

Um. For Nadal? I'd rather Nieminen over Roddick, but I'd rather Davydenko over Youzhny or Tsonga.

Like you said earlier, it's not Rafa's fault the higher seeds in his half fell early.

It is very, very hard to be a Nadal fan at MTF and not get defensive. Even for someone as thick skinned as me :sad:

adee-gee
01-20-2008, 12:01 PM
At the end of the day to reach a GS final you have to beat 6 players all of whom have earned their place in whatever round you face them. Yes some draws are harder than others and Nadal has got an easy one but so be it. It's incredibly childish to whine because your favourite players rival has got a good draw. At the end of the day you need to beat the guy who came through the tougher draw as well so in terms of winning the whole thing it shouldn't be so big an issue.
Agreed.

I'm not going to come here and claim Rafa has had a hard draw, so far it probably couldn't have been handpicked much better. The way he was playing, I expected him to lose early here. There are probably 25 players in the draw I'd say that would've had a good chance to beat him, and he's managed to avoid all of them until the SF.

But I say he's due some luck. Forgetting all the Toni Nadal jokes, I think he had it tough last year with draws and injuries.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 12:03 PM
There are probably 25 players in the draw I'd say that would've had a good chance to beat him, and he's managed to avoid all of them until the SF.


Only 25?

Foxy
01-20-2008, 12:03 PM
if you want to put it that way, then virtually all draws are easy for federer. :rolleyes:

Not entirely true. I can make a list of players who could stand a decent chance against Rog. And they are not just 3 or 4 excluding nadal.

Foxy
01-20-2008, 12:08 PM
Um. For Nadal? I'd rather Nieminen over Roddick, but I'd rather Davydenko over Youzhny or Tsonga.

Like you said earlier, it's not Rafa's fault the higher seeds in his half fell early.

It is very, very hard to be a Nadal fan at MTF and not get defensive. Even for someone as thick skinned as me :sad:

In fact I prefer Youzhny over Davydenko (if he is in a top form). Obviously he is not.
I still remember this freaking Rome SF.

stebs
01-20-2008, 12:14 PM
Um. For Nadal? I'd rather Nieminen over Roddick, but I'd rather Davydenko over Youzhny or Tsonga.

Like you said earlier, it's not Rafa's fault the higher seeds in his half fell early.

It is very, very hard to be a Nadal fan at MTF and not get defensive. Even for someone as thick skinned as me :sad:

If we are talking players quality rather than matchup-wise.

Lopez > Injured Mathieu
Roddick > Nieminen
Davydenko > Youzhny

l_mac
01-20-2008, 12:19 PM
If we are talking players quality rather than matchup-wise.

Lopez > Injured Mathieu
Roddick > Nieminen
Davydenko > Youzhny

Wel, I was talking match-ups for Nadal because that is what matters for him on this surface. I'd rather Rafa was facing Nole in a potential semi than Youzhny.

Did you see any of this match, stebs? You have made no comment.

DhammaTiger
01-20-2008, 12:20 PM
Rafa played very well and I am so happy for him :yippee: Just so unhappy for PHM, he really looked out of sorts. Get well soon Paulo.
VAmos Rafa:yippee:

adee-gee
01-20-2008, 12:22 PM
Only 25?
I'll name them ;) (this is forgetting seedings and the fact it would've been impossible to play some anyway).

Federer
Berdych
Blake
Gonzalez
Djokovic
Malisse
Tursunov
Hewitt
Safin
Nalbandian
Ferrero
Stepanek
Ferrer
Tsonga
Murray
Youzhny
Karlovic
Wawrinka
Davydenko
Roddick
Moya

Ok only 21 :p

Eden
01-20-2008, 12:24 PM
But I say he's due some luck. Forgetting all the Toni Nadal jokes, I think he had it tough last year with draws and injuries.

Why is he due to some luck? Didn't he had a bit of this as well last year? ;)

And talking about the injuries: Nobody forced him to play a claycourt tournament after Wimbledon. He could have easily withdrawn from Stuttgart and prepare for the US hardcourt season.

Nadal is the no. 2 player in the world and it is up to him to show his potential, no matter who he has to play against. Therefore I can't understand when people say he deserves an easy draw. Comparing draws between Nadal and Federer in different tournaments is quite useless as both are completely different kind of players who have different players who can challenge them.

stebs
01-20-2008, 12:25 PM
Wel, I was talking match-ups for Nadal because that is what matters for him on this surface. I'd rather Rafa was facing Nole in a potential semi than Youzhny.

Did you see any of this match, stebs? You have made no comment.

I saw all of the match. There isn't really much to say about it, Nadal played pretty good but Mathieu wasn't moving as well as he should've been and lacked confidence. I think anyone watching the match closesly knew that he would retire if he got broken again at 0-2, he was starting to get slower and slower and could he have finished the match, yes. However, no point in damaging himself furhter just to finish what probably would've ended up a total beatdown.

Mathieu on full form and fitness this could've been a great match. As it was, Nadal had it pretty easy.

Castafiore
01-20-2008, 12:27 PM
But I say he's due some luck. Forgetting all the Toni Nadal jokes, I think he had it tough last year with draws and injuries.
Careful, Adam. After seeing that riveting debate on the use of the verb "to deserve" when discussing match results yesterday, you're bound to be in for a debate on the use of the words "he's due".

l_mac
01-20-2008, 12:28 PM
Why is he due to some luck? Didn't he had a bit of this as well last year? ;)

And talking about the injuries: Nobody forced him to play a claycourt tournament after Wimbledon. He could have easily withdrawn from Stuttgart and prepare for the US hardcourt season.

Nadal is the no. 2 player in the world and it is up to him to show his potential, no matter who he has to play against. Therefore I can't understand when people say he deserves an easy draw. Comparing draws between Nadal and Federer in different tournaments is quite useless as both are completely different kind of players who have different players who can challenge them.


:rolleyes: Right, so there is no point in all the Fedtards and haters in this thread whining about his easy draw either.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 12:32 PM
Thanks Adam :)

I'll name them ;) (this is forgetting seedings and the fact it would've been impossible to play some anyway).

Federer - okay
Berdych - agree
Blake - agree
Gonzalez - unlikely, but only because of his form
Djokovic - to me this is always a 50-50 match up
Malisse - maybe
Tursunov - no
Hewitt - no
Safin -no, no, no
Nalbandian - agree
Ferrero - Hmm. maybe
Stepanek - maybe
Ferrer - Agree
Tsonga - We'll see (maybe)
Murray - No, not yet
Youzhny - Agree and we'll probably find out
Karlovic - no
Wawrinka - no
Davydenko - agree
Roddick - ooh. maybe
Moya - no

stebs
01-20-2008, 12:32 PM
Careful, Adam. After seeing that riveting debate on the use of the verb "to deserve" when discussing match results yesterday, you're bound to be in for a debate on the use of the words "he's due".

Why, it almost sounds as though you're being sarcastic. :lol:

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 12:33 PM
:rolleyes: Right, so there is no point in all the Fedtards and haters in this thread whining about his easy draw either.The point is that he has yet to prove he can beat a quality opponent on a hard court in a Grand Slam match. That he hasn't achieved yet, and whenever he had the opportunity he lost in his first semi-test (Blake 2005, Youzhny 2006, Gonzo 2007, Ferrer 2007).
The solution: give him a clear path to the Semis :rolleyes:

He'll become an undeserved champion next sunday :sad:

stebs
01-20-2008, 12:35 PM
The point is that he has yet to prove he can beat a quality opponent on a hard court in a Grand Slam match. That he hasn't achieved yet, and whenever he had the opportunity he lost in his first semi-test (Blake 2005, Youzhny 2006, Gonzo 2007, Ferrer 2007).
The solution: give him a clear path to the Semis :rolleyes:

He'll become an undeserved champion next sunday :sad:

Surely he will have to pass at least one test if he is to do that? If you're so adamant that he hasn't been able to yetm what nmakes you confident he will get a quality win on Sunday.

adee-gee
01-20-2008, 12:36 PM
The point is that he has yet to prove he can beat a quality opponent on a hard court in a Grand Slam match. That he hasn't achieved yet, and whenever he had the opportunity he lost in his first semi-test (Blake 2005, Youzhny 2006, Gonzo 2007, Ferrer 2007).
The solution: give him a clear path to the Semis :rolleyes:

He'll become an undeserved champion next sunday :sad:
I believe he's beaten the 'god of the Fedtards' Mr Youzhny at the Aussie Open before ;)

And Murray. And let's not forget, he hasn't played many hard court slams....5 maybe?

Keep your knickers on, there's no way he'll win the title.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 12:37 PM
The point is that he has yet to prove he can beat a quality opponent on a hard court in a Grand Slam match. That he hasn't achieved yet, and whenever he had the opportunity he lost in his first semi-test (Blake 2005, Youzhny 2006, Gonzo 2007, Ferrer 2007).
The solution: give him a clear path to the Semis :rolleyes:

He'll become an undeserved champion next sunday :sad:

He beat Murray in last year's Australian Open. He isn't a quality opponent?

He isn't going to win this, but if he did he'd have to beat as least 2 quality opponents, so how would it be undeserved?

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 12:38 PM
He beat Murray in last year's Australian Open. He isn't a quality opponent? NO :retard:

adee-gee
01-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Why is he due to some luck? Didn't he had a bit of this as well last year? ;)
When exactly? :scratch:
Careful, Adam. After seeing that riveting debate on the use of the verb "to deserve" when discussing match results yesterday, you're bound to be in for a debate on the use of the words "he's due".
:lol: I missed that....was it the Federer-Tipsy thread? I would've been much more active in there if Tipsy had pulled out the win :angel:

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Surely he will have to pass at least one test if he is to do that? If you're so adamant that he hasn't been able to yetm what nmakes you confident he will get a quality win on Sunday.Because he'll be (a) Fresher than his opponent (b) already in the Semis with bigger experience or (c) facing an opponent who's just a comfortable matchup for him in the final

:sad: :sad: :sad:

Undeserving :bigcry:

l_mac
01-20-2008, 12:43 PM
Because he'll be (a) Fresher than his opponent (b) already in the Semis with bigger experience or (c) facing an opponent who's just a comfortable matchup for him in the final

So you expect Roger to make it? :lol: Stop being obnoxious - if you can. ;)

Castafiore
01-20-2008, 12:45 PM
:lol: I missed that....was it the Federer-Tipsy thread? I would've been much more active in there if Tipsy had pulled out the win :angel:
Yup, highly entertaining debate as well.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 12:46 PM
When exactly? :scratch:



Oh, Adam. I can think of so many examples:

The claycourt season is played on clay. Lucky bastard.
Federer lost early at IW.
Just from Wimbledon:
Piss easy first two rounds, forgetting the fact that Fish was the highest ranked player any seeded player could face in the 1st round; rain delay helped him against Soderling :retard: ; Youzhny injured, barely able to move in 4th round :rolleyes: ; Berdych - windy (:lol:) ; Nole's lack of fitness (very little is mentioned about roger's piss easy semi where Gasquet could barely play from exhaustion, but whatever). Thank GOD his luck finally ran out in the final.

I don't remember much "luck" apart from those .... maybe a hater can help me.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 12:48 PM
So you expect Roger to make it? :lol: Stop being obnoxious - if you can. ;)Either him or Novak, with Nadal winning in any case

stebs
01-20-2008, 12:48 PM
I would've been much more active in there if Tipsy had pulled out the win :angel:
:eek: Shocking news. :lol:

Eden
01-20-2008, 12:53 PM
When exactly? :scratch:


I don't know exactly what you meant with your statement he is due to some luck. Luck is a part of the game and one day it is on your side, the other day not. There were a few matches on the edge for Rafa last year which he won and could have lost. Same goes for every other player. Therefore no player deserves something more than another.

RonE
01-20-2008, 01:35 PM
Boo.

Black Adam
01-20-2008, 01:39 PM
Pathetic. Less pathetic than Rochus retiring on opponent's MP but still pathetic. Mugthieu just says it all.

Benny_Maths
01-20-2008, 01:41 PM
Rogiman don't you think that Nole would trouble Nadal if they both end up making the final?

Gldngrl
01-20-2008, 01:55 PM
Matheiu's a coward. He saw too much work in continuing the match, and said nevermind. Rafa was on fire. It was purely intimidating.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 01:57 PM
Rogiman don't you think that Nole would trouble Nadal if they both end up making the final?I'm not saying it will be easy but Nadal will prevail

tennizen
01-20-2008, 02:30 PM
Roger's USO 2007 draw? Are you crazy?

Lopez played one of the best matches of his life. After that he faced Roddick and Davydenko to get to the final, two top 5 players. That's not cakewalk in any sense pf the word.

It wasn't cakewalk post facto. But on paper it was a rather easy draw

GuiroNl
01-20-2008, 02:33 PM
Great. Nadal's chances to win the tournament are increasing by each round :lol:.

I can vaguely remember a post last year from somebody who did a sort of a prediction on several season (2008, 2009, 2010). Nadal would be off to a flying start of the 2008 season winning the Australian Open according to that prediction. Looks more and more like it, if he doesn't blow it :lol:

Mateya
01-20-2008, 02:52 PM
Oh, well :rolleyes: Big deal,

Cake:sport: draw for Nadal continues.

Johnny Groove
01-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Federer- Yes

Berdych- Yes

Blake- Yes

Gonzalez- Yes

Djokovic- Always a 50-50 shot with these 2

Malisse- Sucks at the moment

Tursunov- Slim chance

Hewitt- Dont make me laugh

Safin- The thing about Safin is he can beat anyone 5% of the time. The other 95%, Nadal would beat him.

Nalbandian- Yes

Ferrero- Please :rolleyes:

Stepanek- No

Ferrer- Depends on fitness

Tsonga- I could see it, but the occasion might get to JW

Murray- No

Youzhny- Yes

Karlovic- No

Wawrinka- No

Davydenko- No

Roddick- No

Moya- No


Some of those guys might beat him in a best of 3, but in a slam? Not gonna happen.

I've only got 6 for sure, 6 iffy, and 9 not a chance

elessar
01-20-2008, 03:09 PM
I love how people complaining about the draw make it sound as if it were somehow Nadal's fault :lol:

VolandriFan
01-20-2008, 03:13 PM
Anyone doubting Paulo's injury obviously wasn't paying too much attention. Aside from the fact that he recieved treatment twice, Paulo was trying to finish off points quickly at the net, not even attempting to reach any of Nadal's passes, and in the last game not moving to balls a foot away from him.

@Sweet Cleopatra
01-20-2008, 03:22 PM
go Nadal :}

Justin425
01-20-2008, 03:23 PM
for federer pretty much any draw on a hard court/grass is easy because he is s simply that good. having blake,youzhy,berdych,mathieu or ferrer wouldnt be a hard draw for fed but would be a disastrous one for nadal. no matter what draw fed will still win most of his gs matches pretty easily, nadal on the other typically needs easier draws off clay to do well and even then he sometimes fails to make the semis and finals. i wouldnt be suprised if either tsonga or youzhny come out playing like crap and lose to nadal in straight sets.

missvarsha
01-20-2008, 03:26 PM
Piggy continues his romp. I don't think any title is undeserved - after all you can only play who you face.
But then I had lost all hope in Chennai too and see what happened

Justin425
01-20-2008, 03:26 PM
I'm not saying it will be easy but Nadal will prevail

i couldnt see him beating federer in a hard court grand slam semi just to lose to nadal. i think djokovic would win unless his semifinal was extremely long.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 03:33 PM
for federer pretty much any draw on a hard court/grass is easy because he is s simply that good. having blake,youzhy,berdych,mathieu or ferrer wouldnt be a hard draw for fed but would be a disastrous one for nadal. no matter what draw fed will still win most of his gs matches pretty easily, nadal on the other typically needs easier draws off clay to do well and even then he sometimes fails to make the semis and finals. i wouldnt be suprised if either tsonga or youzhny come out playing like crap and lose to nadal in straight sets.

Groundbreaking. Nadal had a nightmare draw at Wimbledon last year - one that could have been handpicked by haters - and got to the Final. Is Wimbledon played on clay? It's so hard for fangirls like myself to remember the details ... I *do* know that every court in the world has been slowed down considerably to suit Rafa. MTF told me. So, I think, yes. Wimbledon is now played on green clay. Wait, just remembered all Rafa's luck at Wimbledon last year. See? Fangirl. I already posted about that today in this very thread.

Why wouldn't you be surprised if Tsonga or Youzhny came out playing like crap? Maybe Rafa won't get past Nieminen.

sykotique
01-20-2008, 03:51 PM
All draw talk is moot until you actually play the matches, because every match is different from the one that came before it.

You could look at Federer's AO 2006 draw and Federer's Wimbledon 2006 draw...which one seemed to pose more threats? Which one actually did?

All any player can do is beat the player in front of them and Nadal has done a damn good job of that so far. The only "luck" that was perhaps unaccounted for is the retirement by Mathieu, but it wasn't going to be much different than the straight sets loss Paolo would have suffered anyway.

Who knows, next round Nieminen may come out firing on all cylinders and take Rafa to the cleaners, or take him to 10-8 in the 5th. No was expecting Tipsarevic to do it to Fed. Let's just enjoy the tennis, people.

I♥PsY@Mus!c
01-20-2008, 04:25 PM
Hope Paulo will be alright.

tennisgal_001
01-20-2008, 04:29 PM
We got spoiled by those 5 setters. Anything less then 3 hours looks pathetic to me now. IMO PHM could have finished the match if he wanted to without risking further injury. He looked more like nothing left in him then injured.

So true :lol:
A straight sets win in under 3 hours is simply not good enough anymore. We need the drama back! Today was like a day-off, with JCF's 1-2-3 and PHM's retirement.

Merton
01-20-2008, 04:37 PM
Paulo was totally spent, hopefully it is nothing serious.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 04:44 PM
Paulo was totally spent, hopefully it is nothing serious.

He said he got injured in the very first game, and couldn't run at all.

He's had bad luck with injuries.

Merton
01-20-2008, 04:45 PM
The point is that he has yet to prove he can beat a quality opponent on a hard court in a Grand Slam match. That he hasn't achieved yet, and whenever he had the opportunity he lost in his first semi-test (Blake 2005, Youzhny 2006, Gonzo 2007, Ferrer 2007).
The solution: give him a clear path to the Semis :rolleyes:

He'll become an undeserved champion next sunday :sad:

There is no such thing as an undeserved champion. The draw of Roddick in the 2005 AO comes to mind but when he faced Hewitt in the semis he was gone. Nadal will have to go through Youzhny and Federer/Djokovic, if he manages that it will be fully deserved.

Even if you look at the ultimate fluke slam, the 1999 FO, Agassi was the deserved champion, as much as it pains me to say that. If you imagine that tournament ran in 100 parallel universes to ours, Agassi would win in only one of them, the one that actually occured. There was no way he was getting past Guga, Al Costa, Rios or Corretja. Still he went past Moya (ideal matchup for him on clay) and dealt with the conditions in the final better than Medvedev. Deserved champion.

Byrd
01-20-2008, 04:46 PM
Thinking back to Murray, this draw was a very good chance to make a slam Final, bullshit.

DhammaTiger
01-20-2008, 04:50 PM
Anyone doubting Paulo's injury obviously wasn't paying too much attention. Aside from the fact that he recieved treatment twice, Paulo was trying to finish off points quickly at the net, not even attempting to reach any of Nadal's passes, and in the last game not moving to balls a foot away from him.

Spot on :hatoff: I agree with your assessment, I thought he was very uncomfortable. But talking sense to G.M. is hopeless.

DhammaTiger
01-20-2008, 05:13 PM
I saw all of the match. There isn't really much to say about it, Nadal played pretty good but Mathieu wasn't moving as well as he should've been and lacked confidence. I think anyone watching the match closesly knew that he would retire if he got broken again at 0-2, he was starting to get slower and slower and could he have finished the match, yes. However, no point in damaging himself furhter just to finish what probably would've ended up a total beatdown.

Mathieu on full form and fitness this could've been a great match. As it was, Nadal had it pretty easy.

You seem to forget that Rafa, prior to this match, had a 6-0 head to head over Mathieu. Only 2 of those were on clay. This is what the A.O. commentary team were saying. However, I must say Paulo was definitely injured and could hardly move in the penultimate game. I hope he recovers soon and is back to the tour before long.

stebs
01-20-2008, 05:16 PM
You seem to forget that Rafa, prior to this match, had a 6-0 head to head over Mathieu. Only 2 of those were on clay. This is what the A.O. commentary team were saying. However, I must say Paulo was definitely injured and could hardly move in the penultimate game. I hope he recovers soon and is back to the tour before long.

Your response doesn't really relate to the post of mine you quoted. I haven't forgotten a thing and am well aware of the record between the two, nothing in my post suggested that I might have forgotten that.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 05:19 PM
You seem to forget that Rafa, prior to this match, had a 6-0 head to head over Mathieu. Only 2 of those were on clay. This is what the A.O. commentary team were saying. However, I must say Paulo was definitely injured and could hardly move in the penultimate game. I hope he recovers soon and is back to the tour before long.

I don't think stebs was saying that PHM would have won, just that the match could have been a good one. Although Rafa has never lost to him, the matches are usually close with PHM having his chances.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 05:21 PM
How many people have retired against Nadal now in grand slam matches?

l_mac
01-20-2008, 05:22 PM
How many people have retired against Nadal now in grand slam matches?

27.

stebs
01-20-2008, 05:23 PM
I don't think stebs was saying that PHM would have won, just that the match could have been a good one. Although Rafa has never lost to him, the matches are usually close with PHM having his chances.

:yeah: I think it was pretty clear what I meant really. I mean PHM has lost to Nadal many times but that doesn't mean they cannot produce a good match.

stebs
01-20-2008, 05:24 PM
How many people have retired against Nadal now in grand slam matches?

Djokovic (twice)
Tipsarevic
Mathieu

l_mac
01-20-2008, 05:31 PM
How many people have retired against Nadal now in grand slam matches?

27.

Djokovic (twice)
Tipsarevic
Mathieu

I was close.

And if your next question is "Is that a record amongst active players?" the answer is no.

CyBorg
01-20-2008, 05:49 PM
youtzny is going to finish nadal off like in chennai.

Yeah, unless Rafa learns to play closer to the baseline Misha will punish him in the semi.

Bilbo
01-20-2008, 05:59 PM
Yeah, unless Rafa learns to play closer to the baseline Misha will punish him in the semi.

a normal tournament has nothing to do with a grand slam

Kuhne
01-20-2008, 06:06 PM
Rafa got lucky but he would have won anyways, he is a vastly superior player but still, he got lucky. he is now fresh and almost has a free ticket to the semis.

Sometimes things happen your way, Rafa is geting lucky but this could be good. we might .. JUST might have a Roger Vs Rafa AO Final, FO final and Wimbledon final (unlikely) and I wont even mention the US Open cos by then Nadal is playing at Mardy Fish level

rocketassist
01-20-2008, 06:18 PM
lol, I have never been a fan of Nadal, but the way Fedtards behave sometimes just makes me... want to be.

DhammaTiger
01-20-2008, 06:29 PM
Your response doesn't really relate to the post of mine you quoted. I haven't forgotten a thing and am well aware of the record between the two, nothing in my post suggested that I might have forgotten that.

I apologise I misread your post.

EternalxJourney
01-20-2008, 06:51 PM
Paulo :smash:

Skyward
01-20-2008, 06:56 PM
Don't ask me to feel bad about Federer having Nole in his half - Rafa played him 7 times last year. And 3 times was in Nole's Slam half.

This is bs. Djoker is a different player this year. He's more experienced (obviously), more fit (remains to be seen), and more confident. I predict that he's not going to retire from a GS SF this year.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 07:01 PM
This is bs. Djoker is a different player this year. He's more experienced (obviously), more fit (remains to be seen), and more confident.

Okay. So he was crap last year then?

Skyward
01-20-2008, 07:03 PM
So he was crap last year then?

NO.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 07:08 PM
NO.


Okay.

I don't understand why my post is bs. You mean bullshit by that, right? Didn't Rafa and Nole play 7 times last year? Wasn't he in Rafa's half 3 out of the 4 Slams?

Shabazza
01-20-2008, 07:42 PM
so much for Rafa's draw...will get back to him for the SF

MrChopin
01-20-2008, 07:59 PM
At the end of the day to reach a GS final you have to beat 6 players all of whom have earned their place in whatever round you face them. Yes some draws are harder than others and Nadal has got an easy one but so be it. It's incredibly childish to whine because your favourite players rival has got a good draw. At the end of the day you need to beat the guy who came through the tougher draw as well so in terms of winning the whole thing it shouldn't be so big an issue.

It's fun to joke around ad reference Uncle Toni et al, and your point is accepted. I hold very little against Nadal and actually enjoy watching him play, quite a bit, so it's not a "rival thing." The problem with this AO is two fold:

(1) Nadal is arguably a top 5 hardcourt player, but Nadal has never had easy success like this at a slam before, assuming he beats Jarko and gets to the semis. Now if Nadal were playing incredibly well and had changed his method on hard court, I would totally respect his run here, however, I don't see substantial improvement. He is still hitting with a ton of spin, getting driven back on the forehand, looking very defensive when things get tight (the main example being the final 2-3 games in the first set against Simon), hardly coming to net... essentially, still playing the safe, defensive game he is comfortable with. So I'd first argue that Nadal hasn't raised his hardcourt level substantially. Sure he's played well and has been remarkably consistent, but he's played well in other hardcourt slams before. Last year's USO match with Ferrer was fantastic, given Rafa's general approach to hardcourts.

(2) Nadal's draw has essentially collapsed. People are comparing Davydenko and Roddick as a means to compare this draw against Fed USO '07, but consider their current forms. Roddick played probably what remains as one of his stretches at last years USO '07, and Davydenko roared through the draw, I think without dropping a set. This year, they were both big question marks, and now those have been sustained. Who else did Nadal draw--Robredo, the easiest hard court 11-15 possible, and he was gone early. Nadal drew Gasquet and Murray, neither of whom have gotten to a slam final (unlike Roddick, Gonzalez, Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Hewitt), both of whom showed questionable decisions, and ultimately, unsatisfactory form. Moya went out early. Two other significant players with whom he's struggled, Blake and Berdych, were drawn to the top half. Ferrer was placed in the top. Djokovic was placed in the top...

Ultimately, this all boils down to me wanting him to have to fight to get to the final. I don't care if he makes it there, and I'd prefer to see him over most of the other players in the bottom half of the draw (and a lot of those from the top half as well). The problem for me is that he hasn't shown the improvement I thought necessary for hard court success, relative to his previous efforts (of course this point isn't entirely objective), and he hasn't had to play opponents that have historically been consistent threats in hard court majors. It provides for him an easy road to the Q/S/F, which is something I'd rather not see for any player who has historically struggled with a particular surface. I would like to see him play well or struggle to earn it, just as I would any other player.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 08:18 PM
It's fun to joke around ad reference Uncle Toni et al, and your point is accepted. I hold very little against Nadal and actually enjoy watching him play, quite a bit, so it's not a "rival thing." The problem with this AO is two fold:

(1) Nadal is arguably a top 5 hardcourt player, but Nadal has never had easy success like this at a slam before, assuming he beats Jarko and gets to the semis. Now if Nadal were playing incredibly well and had changed his method on hard court, I would totally respect his run here, however, I don't see substantial improvement. He is still hitting with a ton of spin, getting driven back on the forehand, looking very defensive when things get tight (the main example being the final 2-3 games in the first set against Simon), hardly coming to net... essentially, still playing the safe, defensive game he is comfortable with. So I'd first argue that Nadal hasn't raised his hardcourt level substantially. Sure he's played well and has been remarkably consistent, but he's played well in other hardcourt slams before. Last year's USO match with Ferrer was fantastic, given Rafa's general approach to hardcourts.

He has only played 3-and-a-bit matches, and the competition hasn't been stiff. I thought he played quite well against Serra, apart from the two :retard: service games he was broken in. Mathieu could have been more challenging, what happened to PHM was very unfortunate, but he was serving very well with a very high 1st serve % which was very pleasing to see after his serving nightmare at the end of last season. It's too early to judge where his hardcourt level is.

(2) Nadal's draw has essentially collapsed. People are comparing Davydenko and Roddick as a means to compare this draw against Fed USO '07, but consider their current forms. Roddick played probably what remains as one of his stretches at last years USO '07, and Davydenko roared through the draw, I think without dropping a set. This year, they were both big question marks, and now those have been sustained. Who else did Nadal draw--Robredo, the easiest hard court 11-15 possible, and he was gone early. Nadal drew Gasquet and Murray, neither of whom have gotten to a slam final (unlike Roddick, Gonzalez, Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Hewitt), both of whom showed questionable decisions, and ultimately, unsatisfactory form. Moya went out early. Two other significant players with whom he's struggled, Blake and Berdych, were drawn to the top half. Ferrer was placed in the top. Djokovic was placed in the top...

Gonzo is out, Baggy is out, Nalbandian is out. Rafa's section of the draw is not the only one collapsing. Davydenko was roaring through the draw until he hit Youzhny, one of the "hot" players on tour right now. He's in Rafa's half. Kohlschrieber (another player on a hot streak) was also in Rafa's section. Roddick came into the AO on the back of his davis Cup win and another successful Kooyong tournament. It is not the fault of Nadal that these players can't make it through their draws. Tsonga, new star of the tournament is in his half.

Ultimately, this all boils down to me wanting him to have to fight to get to the final. I don't care if he makes it there, and I'd prefer to see him over most of the other players in the bottom half of the draw (and a lot of those from the top half as well). The problem for me is that he hasn't shown the improvement I thought necessary for hard court success, relative to his previous efforts (of course this point isn't entirely objective), and he hasn't had to play opponents that have historically been consistent threats in hard court majors. It provides for him an easy road to the Q/S/F, which is something I'd rather not see for any player who has historically struggled with a particular surface. I would like to see him play well or struggle to earn it, just as I would any other player.

You want him to fight in the first 3 rounds? Why? Apart from Federer none of the other top players did. What happened with PHM was unfortunate, as I said earlier, and he would have been a tricky match for Rafa. But these things happen. I thought he looked very sharp today, although I accept that is impossible to accurately judge how well he was playing in light of Mathieu's injury.

Will you be okay with him in the latter stages if Nieminen takes him to 5 sets?

Ackms421
01-20-2008, 08:19 PM
It's fun to joke around ad reference Uncle Toni et al, and your point is accepted. I hold very little against Nadal and actually enjoy watching him play, quite a bit, so it's not a "rival thing." The problem with this AO is two fold:

(1) Nadal is arguably a top 5 hardcourt player, but Nadal has never had easy success like this at a slam before, assuming he beats Jarko and gets to the semis. Now if Nadal were playing incredibly well and had changed his method on hard court, I would totally respect his run here, however, I don't see substantial improvement. He is still hitting with a ton of spin, getting driven back on the forehand, looking very defensive when things get tight (the main example being the final 2-3 games in the first set against Simon), hardly coming to net... essentially, still playing the safe, defensive game he is comfortable with. So I'd first argue that Nadal hasn't raised his hardcourt level substantially. Sure he's played well and has been remarkably consistent, but he's played well in other hardcourt slams before. Last year's USO match with Ferrer was fantastic, given Rafa's general approach to hardcourts.

(2) Nadal's draw has essentially collapsed. People are comparing Davydenko and Roddick as a means to compare this draw against Fed USO '07, but consider their current forms. Roddick played probably what remains as one of his stretches at last years USO '07, and Davydenko roared through the draw, I think without dropping a set. This year, they were both big question marks, and now those have been sustained. Who else did Nadal draw--Robredo, the easiest hard court 11-15 possible, and he was gone early. Nadal drew Gasquet and Murray, neither of whom have gotten to a slam final (unlike Roddick, Gonzalez, Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Hewitt), both of whom showed questionable decisions, and ultimately, unsatisfactory form. Moya went out early. Two other significant players with whom he's struggled, Blake and Berdych, were drawn to the top half. Ferrer was placed in the top. Djokovic was placed in the top...

Ultimately, this all boils down to me wanting him to have to fight to get to the final. I don't care if he makes it there, and I'd prefer to see him over most of the other players in the bottom half of the draw (and a lot of those from the top half as well). The problem for me is that he hasn't shown the improvement I thought necessary for hard court success, relative to his previous efforts (of course this point isn't entirely objective), and he hasn't had to play opponents that have historically been consistent threats in hard court majors. It provides for him an easy road to the Q/S/F, which is something I'd rather not see for any player who has historically struggled with a particular surface. I would like to see him play well or struggle to earn it, just as I would any other player.

I dunno. If he gets to the final easily, then he can play his best tennis there against Federer/Djokovic/Ferrer. I personally would rather see him play his best in the final than anywhere else in the tournament. In past years, one difficult match has lead to him playing poorly and losing in the next round. Of course, these matches may be "difficult" due to his less than stellar play, but nonetheless. If he has a cakewalk draw, gets to the final, and beats whoever opposes him there, I'll take it! I'd rather that than a struggle to the final that results in him playing 3/4 of his best and losing in 4 sets to Federer/Djokovic/Ferrer. :)

Byrd
01-20-2008, 08:30 PM
It's fun to joke around ad reference Uncle Toni et al, and your point is accepted. I hold very little against Nadal and actually enjoy watching him play, quite a bit, so it's not a "rival thing." The problem with this AO is two fold:

(1) Nadal is arguably a top 5 hardcourt player, but Nadal has never had easy success like this at a slam before, assuming he beats Jarko and gets to the semis. Now if Nadal were playing incredibly well and had changed his method on hard court, I would totally respect his run here, however, I don't see substantial improvement. He is still hitting with a ton of spin, getting driven back on the forehand, looking very defensive when things get tight (the main example being the final 2-3 games in the first set against Simon), hardly coming to net... essentially, still playing the safe, defensive game he is comfortable with. So I'd first argue that Nadal hasn't raised his hardcourt level substantially. Sure he's played well and has been remarkably consistent, but he's played well in other hardcourt slams before. Last year's USO match with Ferrer was fantastic, given Rafa's general approach to hardcourts.

(2) Nadal's draw has essentially collapsed. People are comparing Davydenko and Roddick as a means to compare this draw against Fed USO '07, but consider their current forms. Roddick played probably what remains as one of his stretches at last years USO '07, and Davydenko roared through the draw, I think without dropping a set. This year, they were both big question marks, and now those have been sustained. Who else did Nadal draw--Robredo, the easiest hard court 11-15 possible, and he was gone early. Nadal drew Gasquet and Murray, neither of whom have gotten to a slam final (unlike Roddick, Gonzalez, Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Hewitt), both of whom showed questionable decisions, and ultimately, unsatisfactory form. Moya went out early. Two other significant players with whom he's struggled, Blake and Berdych, were drawn to the top half. Ferrer was placed in the top. Djokovic was placed in the top...

Ultimately, this all boils down to me wanting him to have to fight to get to the final. I don't care if he makes it there, and I'd prefer to see him over most of the other players in the bottom half of the draw (and a lot of those from the top half as well). The problem for me is that he hasn't shown the improvement I thought necessary for hard court success, relative to his previous efforts (of course this point isn't entirely objective), and he hasn't had to play opponents that have historically been consistent threats in hard court majors. It provides for him an easy road to the Q/S/F, which is something I'd rather not see for any player who has historically struggled with a particular surface. I would like to see him play well or struggle to earn it, just as I would any other player.

Great post

Marek.
01-20-2008, 09:42 PM
All too easy.


I'm sure sawan knows where this quote is from.

stebs
01-20-2008, 10:08 PM
Gonzo is out, Baggy is out, Nalbandian is out. Rafa's section of the draw is not the only one collapsing. Davydenko was roaring through the draw until he hit Youzhny, one of the "hot" players on tour right now. He's in Rafa's half. Kohlschrieber (another player on a hot streak) was also in Rafa's section. Roddick came into the AO on the back of his davis Cup win and another successful Kooyong tournament. It is not the fault of Nadal that these players can't make it through their draws. Tsonga, new star of the tournament is in his half.

Just two things.

1 - Although to a certain extent the top half has collapsed (though Baggy lost to an equal player imo and Gonzo was never going to be a thread), it has not happened to a comprable extent. Kohlschriber and Tsonga on hot streaks are still only intermediate level players. Davydenko also was not raoring through the draw, he was winning in straights but not playing that well in truth.

2 - MrChopin, if I interpreted correctly, was not suggesting it was Nadal's fault or hating on Nadal because of his draw. He was expressing displeasure at the lack of challenges he has had to face. It's like a coming of age sort of thing, if Nadal is to 'come of age' (reach a GS final?) on hardcourt then he should have to beat at least one challenge which has got the better of him before (really good HC player). It was an opinonated comment and was construed as such, it was not anger toward Nadal.

Oh, and on another note, try being less defensive. I realise that Nadal is probably the most disliked player on these forums but much of the time you are extremely defensive -

It is not the fault of Nadal
Rafa's section of the draw is not the only one collapsing.

- whenever these issues are adressed. There are posters out there who are not trying to be aggressive toward their disliked players and it is better to see these posters for who they are and then real discussion can take place than to try and relentlessly defend Nadal as if he were being attacked from all quarters.

World Beater
01-20-2008, 10:16 PM
NO :retard:

:haha:

:haha:

agree. murray junkballs more than nadal does. at least nadal hits aggressive moonballs.

Murray :rolleyes:

World Beater
01-20-2008, 10:17 PM
anyways.

nadal was kicking mathieu's ass. mathieu knew he had no chance as he wasn't a 100%

i thank mathieu for not wasting my time.

also, a fresh djokovic is a far more dangerous opponent for nadal on a medium HC in a GS SEMIFINAL than Youzhny.

i wouldnt be surprised to see nadal go all the way now.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Just two things.

1 - Although to a certain extent the top half has collapsed (though Baggy lost to an equal player imo and Gonzo was never going to be a thread), it has not happened to a comprable extent. Kohlschriber and Tsonga on hot streaks are still only intermediate level players. Davydenko also was not raoring through the draw, he was winning in straights but not playing that well in truth.

2 - MrChopin, if I interpreted correctly, was not suggesting it was Nadal's fault or hating on Nadal because of his draw. He was expressing displeasure at the lack of challenges he has had to face. It's like a coming of age sort of thing, if Nadal is to 'come of age' (reach a GS final?) on hardcourt then he should have to beat at least one challenge which has got the better of him before (really good HC player). It was an opinonated comment and was construed as such, it was not anger toward Nadal.

Oh, and on another note, try being less defensive. I realise that Nadal is probably the most disliked player on these forums but much of the time you are extremely defensive -

- whenever these issues are adressed. There are posters out there who are not trying to be aggressive toward their disliked players and it is better to see these posters for who they are and then real discussion can take place than to try and relentlessly defend Nadal as if he were being attacked from all quarters.

:ras: That was extremely patronising.

1) I know Mr Chopin is not a hater. Just yesterday he sent me a PM about my avatar.

2) Mr Chopin expressed a number of views with which I disagree to an extent. I explained why. I'm sorry if this has stilted the discussion.

3) I know I can be defensive about Nadal, and have been laughing about this in his forum.

4) My main point to Mr Chopin was that it is only 4 rounds into the tournament. There is still time for Nadal to be tested.

World Beater
01-20-2008, 10:29 PM
4) My main point to Mr Chopin was that it is only 4 rounds into the tournament. There is still time for Nadal to be tested.

by tsonga/youzhny and nieminen.

:haha:

Kitty de Sade
01-20-2008, 10:31 PM
3) I know I can be defensive about Nadal, and have been laughing about this in his forum.

Passionate and dedicated, instead. Which is why we love you. :hug:

tennizen
01-20-2008, 10:31 PM
by tsonga/youzhny and nieminen.

:haha:

Youzhny has 4-3 record against Nadal on hard courts:confused:

stebs
01-20-2008, 10:32 PM
:ras: That was extremely patronising.

1) I know Mr Chopin is not a hater. Just yesterday he sent me a PM about my avatar.

2) Mr Chopin expressed a number of views with which I disagree to an extent. I explained why. I'm sorry if this has stilted the discussion.

3) I know I can be defensive about Nadal, and have been laughing about this in his forum.

4) My main point to Mr Chopin was that it is only 4 rounds into the tournament. There is still time for Nadal to be tested.

Sorry if it was patronising.

Clearly my post didn't work, this post is even more defensive if anything.

l_mac
01-20-2008, 10:36 PM
Sorry if it was patronising.

Clearly my post didn't work, this post is even more defensive if anything.

:haha: :haha:

Clearly I just don't want to learn :shrug: I'm a lost cause :sad:

Passionate and dedicated, instead. Which is why we love you. :hug:

:kiss: I don't think stebs does, but I'll get over it.

World Beater
01-20-2008, 10:39 PM
Youzhny has 4-3 record against Nadal on hard courts:confused:

latter stages of grand slam tournaments are supposed to be challenging.

the fact that the biggest test for nadal will be in the form of youzhny is pretty pathetic actually.

this is the same youzhny that has only made one SF in his whole career?

there is a whole army of players that Nadal COULD have faced but lucked out due to the draw. good for him.

this was an easy draw. accept it and move on.

Metis
01-20-2008, 10:40 PM
How can one be a Rafatard and not have superior defensive skills? ;) ...and I would say l_mac is a master at turning defense to offense :worship:

:D

tennizen
01-20-2008, 10:45 PM
latter stages of grand slam tournaments are supposed to be challenging.

the fact that the biggest test for nadal will be in the form of youzhny is pretty pathetic actually.

this is the same youzhny that has only made one SF in his whole career?

there is a whole army of players that Nadal COULD have faced but lucked out due to the draw. good for him.

this was an easy draw. accept it and move on.

I actually believe its pointless to debate a draw. It's too subjective for me. Do we decide the quality based on recent form of players, match up or ranking/seeding. I am not sure and wouldn't like to be drawn into it. Nadal has repeatedly met Youzhny on hard courts and failed to solve the puzzle completely. So if both of them make it there, it is as good a test as any.

adee-gee
01-20-2008, 10:45 PM
(1) Nadal is arguably a top 5 hardcourt player, but Nadal has never had easy success like this at a slam before, assuming he beats Jarko and gets to the semis. Now if Nadal were playing incredibly well and had changed his method on hard court, I would totally respect his run here, however, I don't see substantial improvement. He is still hitting with a ton of spin, getting driven back on the forehand, looking very defensive when things get tight (the main example being the final 2-3 games in the first set against Simon), hardly coming to net... essentially, still playing the safe, defensive game he is comfortable with. So I'd first argue that Nadal hasn't raised his hardcourt level substantially. Sure he's played well and has been remarkably consistent, but he's played well in other hardcourt slams before. Last year's USO match with Ferrer was fantastic, given Rafa's general approach to hardcourts.
Even as a Nadal fan, I'll agree with this 100%. I was much more confident at Wimbledon that he could win it (where I felt he was playing extremely well). I still don't think he has much of a shot here.
Kohlschriber and Tsonga on hot streaks are still only intermediate level players.
I'd say Tsonga on a hot streak is considerably better than an intermediate level player. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the verge or in the top 10 by the end of this year.
How can one be a Rafatard and not have superior defensive skills? ;) ...and I would say l_mac is a master at turning defense to offense :worship:

:D
Is she also one dimensional? :p

Shabazza
01-20-2008, 11:09 PM
3) I know I can be defensive about Nadal, and have been laughing about this in his forum.


Of course, you'd rather take the easier draw for your player, as every fan would. Nothing wrong with that.
You are just overly worried about your favorite. (rather Hewitt than PHM - still feel the same? :p ) Have a little more faith, chances are very high you see him in the final. Should make you happy enough and forget about some haters.
At least, this thinking works for me and my fave. ;)

cmurray
01-20-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm not sure what the complaints are for. Has any Rafatard admitted that yes indeed his draw is "easy"? No? Fine.

HELL YES his draw is easy. :aparty: And I'm happy about it. :lol: How's that for being shameless?

l_mac
01-20-2008, 11:35 PM
I'm not sure what the complaints are for. Has any Rafatard admitted that yes indeed his draw is "easy"? No? Fine.

Look at Adam's new sig :haha:

HELL YES his draw is easy. :aparty: And I'm happy about it. :lol: How's that for being shameless?

And if he does well here, it won't feel hollow because he hasn't had to play Berdych, Blake and Nole???

cmurray
01-21-2008, 12:48 AM
Look at Adam's new sig :haha:



And if he does well here, it won't feel hollow because he hasn't had to play Berdych, Blake and Nole???

Nope. :angel:

MrChopin
01-21-2008, 06:29 AM
He has only played 3-and-a-bit matches, and the competition hasn't been stiff. I thought he played quite well against Serra, apart from the two :retard: service games he was broken in. Mathieu could have been more challenging, what happened to PHM was very unfortunate, but he was serving very well with a very high 1st serve % which was very pleasing to see after his serving nightmare at the end of last season. It's too early to judge where his hardcourt level is.

I don't think that Nadal has played poorly... very rarely does his game afford such a description. And like I said to begin my initial post, Rafa was playing strongly against Matthieu, very consistent, attacking the lines from the ground, and serving at that exceptionally high percentage. However, and maybe this is part of the motivation for my dissatisfaction, but would Nadal remain as consistent if he was playing Ferrer, Ferrero, Blake, Djokovic, Baghdatis, Nalbandian, even Hewitt? I want to see Rafa in a few matches like this because I think they'll be good matches and because they'll force Rafa to try something different. Sure, it's fair if everyone has an equally difficult draw, and yes, its frustrating to see one player skate by while the others knock each other out in successive 5 setters, but the great matches among the top players are of even more interest to me.

Gonzo is out, Baggy is out, Nalbandian is out. Rafa's section of the draw is not the only one collapsing. Davydenko was roaring through the draw until he hit Youzhny, one of the "hot" players on tour right now. He's in Rafa's half. Kohlschrieber (another player on a hot streak) was also in Rafa's section. Roddick came into the AO on the back of his davis Cup win and another successful Kooyong tournament. It is not the fault of Nadal that these players can't make it through their draws. Tsonga, new star of the tournament is in his half.

I think that Gonzo was and still is a potential threat, as TMC last year showed. The question I keep asking myself, in light of this draw, is "How would it look if some of these guys were in the bottom half?" The top half was so riddled with competition that Nalbandian's loss, while a surprise, isn't a far stretch. Baghdatis losing to Hewitt is a trade off. Just comparing the quarters now:

Fed vs. Blake
Hewitt/Djokovic vs. Ferrero/Ferrer

Youzhny vs. Tsonga
Niemenin vs. Nadal

By comparison, the top half is super heavy with consistent hardcourt talent. Hewitt and Ferrero aside (and they'd probably be highly competitive), I'd take any of the other four if they were in the bottom right now. I'd love to see a Ferrer-Nadal repeat, or see if Nadal has anything on Blake now. The only match I'm looking forward to with Rafa is Rafa-Youzhny, and it's the only match I'll probably remember in six months. It could be an excellent match, but if it isn't, then for me, Rafa hasn't been in one significant match.

You want him to fight in the first 3 rounds? Why? Apart from Federer none of the other top players did. What happened with PHM was unfortunate, as I said earlier, and he would have been a tricky match for Rafa. But these things happen. I thought he looked very sharp today, although I accept that is impossible to accurately judge how well he was playing in light of Mathieu's injury.

The first four, yes--Federer got Berdych, Ferrer drew Ferrero in the 4th, who drew Nalbandian in the third, Djokovic drew Hewitt in the 4th, who drew Baghdatis in the 3rd. Rada is already "ahead" of these 3-4 top players that, by the end of last year, were better than him on the big hardcourt moments, and consider what they have to face in coming rounds. While a struggle could happen, I think Nadal will get by Niemenin fairly easily. If he does, that puts him in the semis with no stretch, and further, having produced quality tennis against almost no high-end opponents. Nadal could have played a host of guys from the top in R3/R4 that would possibly have troubled him, made for great and unique matches, and ultimately revealed more about their respective hardcourt games. But none of it happened. Almost everyone else is challenged from 3rd/4th on and we've seen some fantastic battles. The top half quarters are going to be brutal with two huge matchups, and the semi is going to be even bigger, but Nadal is nowhere in the mix.

Will you be okay with him in the latter stages if Nieminen takes him to 5 sets?

Maybe... it depends on how they play, but again, it's that four rounds have gone by and Nadal has hardly been a part of anything interesting. I ultimately want to see good matches between the top players, a nice mixing of talents and such. I've stated a few points several times so I won't repeat, but I don't think it's as much a "fair" issue (though I think this has part to do with it, and Stebs touches on this later on in Rafa's hardcourt slams "coming of age") as it is a way to maximize tennis for great matches, especially if between the big names.

MrChopin
01-21-2008, 06:44 AM
I dunno. If he gets to the final easily, then he can play his best tennis there against Federer/Djokovic/Ferrer. I personally would rather see him play his best in the final than anywhere else in the tournament. In past years, one difficult match has lead to him playing poorly and losing in the next round. Of course, these matches may be "difficult" due to his less than stellar play, but nonetheless. If he has a cakewalk draw, gets to the final, and beats whoever opposes him there, I'll take it! I'd rather that than a struggle to the final that results in him playing 3/4 of his best and losing in 4 sets to Federer/Djokovic/Ferrer. :)

Sure, in this case we could get one great match from Nadal, but how reflective will it be of his talents, and how much has he shown to us. Watching him play Fed, Djoke, Ferrer, Blake at top level will be great, but its only one match. If he gets Youzhny, that could be two great matches with Rafa. Maybe Niemenin will be a third, I don't know, but imagine the possible matchups if some of the higher-seed failures and lower-ranked hardcourters had been distributed evenly: we could have had a Nadal-Ferrero or Nadal-Baghdatis or Nadal-Hewitt or Nadal-Blake or Nadal-Nalbandian. And while there were great matches in the top, I'd prefer to see Rafa involved, having an incredibly unique form on hardcourt and being #2 in the world.

Along the lines of the "fairness" argument, the best players ideally meet in the matches of most importance (this does nothing for the tennis, but does add to the hype=excitement and importance, as well as reward the players most deserving based on their tournament performance). If Nadal gets to the final and gets smoked in three, everyone will resort to the earlier matches as those of highest quality. While this is perfectly fine, it lacks the edge of having the final matches be among the best players. Further, I'd be frustrated that someone like Blake, Berdych, or Ferrero didn't get a bottom half draw and thus reach a final, which they may have deserved a lot more than Nadal. This is all speculative as the tournament is still going on and probably also biased, but I think that Baghdaits' 3rd round exit is one current example of "unfair" that is present in the random draws of tennis. I think that this AO has featured a lot of the "unfair." Then again, it has provided for some amazing matches, so... :scratch:

Rogiman
01-21-2008, 06:46 AM
I see the discusssion is still going on.

He will become an uneserved champion on sunday, what is there to argue so much :shrug:

And the one playing the ugliest tennis ever.

RonE
01-21-2008, 07:19 AM
I see the discusssion is still going on.

He will become an uneserved champion on sunday, what is there to argue so much :shrug:

And the one playing the ugliest tennis ever.

How dare you call his game ugly when he is the by far the most stylish ball striker the game has ever seen. Those hysterical grunts are music to the ears. The asspicking is oh such a delicate touch and a fine display of finesse.

If anything, the arrogant Swiss ego king is the one with the ugly game. Really, how that lucky bastard won 12 slams with such an ugly game is beyond me.

garad
01-21-2008, 12:21 PM
Why don't you come to the chat thread anymore? I see you lurking ..... :sad:

I don't think any of the top seeds have a particularly hard draw now, the way things have worked out. Don't ask me to feel bad about Federer having Nole in his half - Rafa played him 7 times last year. And 3 times was in Nole's Slam half. Anyway Rafa worst hardcourt match up (apart from Blake, IMO) is still there, waiting for him if he lucks a win against Nieminen.



I think you'll find that was before Wimbledon 2007, and I was remembering the last cakewalk draw I saw. Wait, Roger's USO 2007 draw was pretty laughable too.

Actually, neither Wimbledon 2007 (del Potro, Safin, Ferrero, Gasquet, Nadal), nor USO 2007 (Isner, Lopez, Roddick, Davydenko, Djokovic) were cakewalks of the "Nadal proportion."
As for Djoko, Fed played him last year as well, you know, 4 times. Plus out of the slam encounters, Nadal beat Djokovic in the French open semi (very tough match indeed), and played two sets against him in Wimbledon - what a bad luck.

garad
01-21-2008, 12:42 PM
Funny thing about this Open is that if Nadal gets to the final through Nieminnen and Tsonga, he'd get there without beating a top 25 player (well, Mathieu was 25th before the championship started, but he retired anyway). This has to be a record, I should think.
And let's say that Blake beats Federer and then tired Ferrer who eliminated Djokovic after 5 set battle. Annoying match up, but our Rafa is a fighter so he smokes exhausted Blake (15th in the rankings) in 3 fairly straightforward sets. That means the grand slam title title without dealing with a top tenner.

Some great matches on display though this year, and the attendance record will be probably broken again.

l_mac
01-21-2008, 02:41 PM
Funny thing about this Open is that if Nadal gets to the final through Nieminnen and Tsonga, he'd get there without beating a top 25 player (well, Mathieu was 25th before the championship started, but he retired anyway). This has to be a record, I should think.
And let's say that Blake beats Federer and then tired Ferrer who eliminated Djokovic after 5 set battle. Annoying match up, but our Rafa is a fighter so he smokes exhausted Blake (15th in the rankings) in 3 fairly straightforward sets. That means an USO title without dealing with a top tenner.

Some great matches on display though this year, and the attendance record will be probably broken again.

What a player this Nadal is! Winning the USO while competing in Australia :worship:

Puschkin
01-21-2008, 02:48 PM
What a player this Nadal is! Winning the USO while competing in Australia :worship:
:rolls:

l_mac
01-21-2008, 02:59 PM
I don't think that Nadal has played poorly... very rarely does his game afford such a description. And like I said to begin my initial post, Rafa was playing strongly against Matthieu, very consistent, attacking the lines from the ground, and serving at that exceptionally high percentage. However, and maybe this is part of the motivation for my dissatisfaction, but would Nadal remain as consistent if he was playing Ferrer, Ferrero, Blake, Djokovic, Baghdatis, Nalbandian, even Hewitt? I want to see Rafa in a few matches like this because I think they'll be good matches and because they'll force Rafa to try something different. Sure, it's fair if everyone has an equally difficult draw, and yes, its frustrating to see one player skate by while the others knock each other out in successive 5 setters, but the great matches among the top players are of even more interest to me.



I think that Gonzo was and still is a potential threat, as TMC last year showed. The question I keep asking myself, in light of this draw, is "How would it look if some of these guys were in the bottom half?" The top half was so riddled with competition that Nalbandian's loss, while a surprise, isn't a far stretch. Baghdatis losing to Hewitt is a trade off. Just comparing the quarters now:

Fed vs. Blake
Hewitt/Djokovic vs. Ferrero/Ferrer

Youzhny vs. Tsonga
Niemenin vs. Nadal

By comparison, the top half is super heavy with consistent hardcourt talent. Hewitt and Ferrero aside (and they'd probably be highly competitive), I'd take any of the other four if they were in the bottom right now. I'd love to see a Ferrer-Nadal repeat, or see if Nadal has anything on Blake now. The only match I'm looking forward to with Rafa is Rafa-Youzhny, and it's the only match I'll probably remember in six months. It could be an excellent match, but if it isn't, then for me, Rafa hasn't been in one significant match.



The first four, yes--Federer got Berdych, Ferrer drew Ferrero in the 4th, who drew Nalbandian in the third, Djokovic drew Hewitt in the 4th, who drew Baghdatis in the 3rd. Rada is already "ahead" of these 3-4 top players that, by the end of last year, were better than him on the big hardcourt moments, and consider what they have to face in coming rounds. While a struggle could happen, I think Nadal will get by Niemenin fairly easily. If he does, that puts him in the semis with no stretch, and further, having produced quality tennis against almost no high-end opponents. Nadal could have played a host of guys from the top in R3/R4 that would possibly have troubled him, made for great and unique matches, and ultimately revealed more about their respective hardcourt games. But none of it happened. Almost everyone else is challenged from 3rd/4th on and we've seen some fantastic battles. The top half quarters are going to be brutal with two huge matchups, and the semi is going to be even bigger, but Nadal is nowhere in the mix.



Maybe... it depends on how they play, but again, it's that four rounds have gone by and Nadal has hardly been a part of anything interesting. I ultimately want to see good matches between the top players, a nice mixing of talents and such. I've stated a few points several times so I won't repeat, but I don't think it's as much a "fair" issue (though I think this has part to do with it, and Stebs touches on this later on in Rafa's hardcourt slams "coming of age") as it is a way to maximize tennis for great matches, especially if between the big names.

I'm not going to go through your whole post, I don't essentially disagree with anyhthing you've posted other than the belief that Nadal should have suffered more to get where he is. It sounds from your post that you're expecting Fed/Blake (historically very close battles) and Nole/Ferrer (USO, and Ferrer was playing better then) to be fantastic matches. I'm expecting straight sets for Fed and Nole. I like your expectations more.

Just one thing, in what world are Hewitt, Ferrero and Blake consistent hardcourt talent? This is 2008. This is a Slam in Australia. I am thrilled Rafa didn't draw Blake - he is a nightmare match up for him, but outside of that .. :shrug: Even Ferrer wouldn't have been called a hardcourt threat at a Slam before the USO last year.

Sorry if this sounds defensive again :sad:

acionescu
01-21-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm not going to go through your whole post, I don't essentially disagree with anyhthing you've posted other than the belief that Nadal should have suffered more to get where he is. It sounds from your post that you're expecting Fed/Blake (historically very close battles) and Nole/Ferrer (USO, and Ferrer was playing better then) to be fantastic matches. I'm expecting straight sets for Fed and Nole. I like your expectations more.

Just one thing, in what world are Hewitt, Ferrero and Blake consistent hardcourt talent? This is 2008. This is a Slam in Australia. I am thrilled Rafa didn't draw Blake - he is a nightmare match up for him, but outside of that .. :shrug: Even Ferrer wouldn't have been called a hardcourt threat at a Slam before the USO last year.

Sorry if this sounds defensive again :sad:

It's not defensive, is common sense. :wavey:

garad
01-21-2008, 03:25 PM
What a player this Nadal is! Winning the USO while competing in Australia :worship:

So your only comment is about a typo? Edited.

tennizen
01-21-2008, 03:30 PM
Funny thing about this Open is that if Nadal gets to the final through Nieminnen and Tsonga, he'd get there without beating a top 25 player (well, Mathieu was 25th before the championship started, but he retired anyway). This has to be a record, I should think.
And let's say that Blake beats Federer and then tired Ferrer who eliminated Djokovic after 5 set battle. Annoying match up, but our Rafa is a fighter so he smokes exhausted Blake (15th in the rankings) in 3 fairly straightforward sets. That means the grand slam title title without dealing with a top tenner.

Some great matches on display though this year, and the attendance record will be probably broken again.

I admire your reasoning quite a bit. The scenario you have presented is quite likely and I understand your concerns. The only thing I would probably revise a little bit is that Nadal will lose to Blake in the final and it would mean that AO is the first grand slam Nadal lost without beating a top- tenner:cool::wavey:

garad
01-21-2008, 03:32 PM
I'm not going to go through your whole post, I don't essentially disagree with anyhthing you've posted other than the belief that Nadal should have suffered more to get where he is. It sounds from your post that you're expecting Fed/Blake (historically very close battles) and Nole/Ferrer (USO, and Ferrer was playing better then) to be fantastic matches. I'm expecting straight sets for Fed and Nole. I like your expectations more.

Just one thing, in what world are Hewitt, Ferrero and Blake consistent hardcourt talent? This is 2008. This is a Slam in Australia. I am thrilled Rafa didn't draw Blake - he is a nightmare match up for him, but outside of that .. :shrug: Even Ferrer wouldn't have been called a hardcourt threat at a Slam before the USO last year.

Sorry if this sounds defensive again :sad:

You're talking about results. But given their level of play this week, they were consistent and dangerous. You dismiss Hewitt too easily after he didn't have anything in the tank to resist Djokovic. But would Nadal win that 5 setter if he was in Baghdatis' position? He'd probably have problems with Johanson in 1st rd with Baggy's draw.

l_mac
01-21-2008, 03:43 PM
You're talking about results. But given their level of play this week, they were consistent and dangerous. You dismiss Hewitt too easily after he didn't have anything in the tank to resist Djokovic. But would Nadal win that 5 setter if he was in Baghdatis' position? He'd probably have problems with Johanson in 1st rd with Baggy's draw.


So Kohlschreiber, Tsonga, Youzhny, Davydenko weren't consistent and dangerous this past week? Results and ranking are what is being used to dismiss the bottom half of the draw.

Are you asking if I think Nadal would beat Hewitt in a 5 set match? Yes, I think he would 8 out of 10 times. Hewitt does not have the type of game which has traditionally bothered Nadal on a hc.

I need to leave this thread, now. It's driving me crazy.

You're not going to change my mind, I'm not going to change yours. I usually try to not get involved in these round and round (and round and round) discussions. I don't know what I was thinking yesterday.