Chinese ambitions could kill off Australian Open [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Chinese ambitions could kill off Australian Open

danton
01-20-2008, 03:34 AM
Doesn't offer anything concrete but thought you might find it interesting - From the Times. From Pat Cash who of course is the man that knows everything about tennis :rolleyes:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article3216821.ece

Chinese ambitions could kill off Australian Open
Poor facilities and the threat of hooliganism could see Australia lose its Grand Slam tournament.

WHAT is the going rate if a country wants to buy history? Can anyone put a value on a tennis tradition that encompasses legendary names such as Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall, Lew Hoad, Margaret Court and Evonne Goolagong?

The future of the Australian Open is supposedly under threat because the Chinese yearn to add a Grand Slam tournament to their sporting portfolio. People well versed in aspects of life behind the scenes at Melbourne Park cannot say they are surprised, because an overhaul of the venue is long overdue. However, it would be appalling for one of the sport’s institutions to be uprooted and shifted to a country that started to become interested in tennis less than a decade ago.

Since the Korean car-maker Kia became sponsor of the Australian Open in 2002, there has been an Asian flavour to the event. A year later it officially became the Grand Slam of Asia and the Pacific. Because of this, the Chinese, who stage the year-ending Masters Cup in Shanghai and will host the Olympic Games in August, believe they have just cause to mount a bid.

There is a precedent. In the mid1980s, when Boris Becker and Steffi Graf were dominant, the Germans made it clear to the International Tennis Federation (ITF) that they wanted a Grand Slam. At the time the Australian Open was held at Kooyong, which is a wonderful old-fashioned tennis club in the Melbourne suburbs, but one that really didn’t justify a position as venue for one of the sport’s four showpiece events.

Philippe Chatrier, the president of the ITF, made it clear to Tennis Australia president Brian Tobin that something had to change. The result was the Victorian state government agreed to invest A$94m in a new multi-purpose facility. Melbourne Park became the envy of tournament directors around the world with its sliding roof. However, that was 20 years ago. Now the players take the two roofs on the Rod Laver and Vodafone Arenas as a given, and complain about the sub-standard locker rooms, the paucity of indoor practice courts and the fact that it can take half an hour to get through the crowds to the furthest extremities of the premises.

The Australian Open has also lost a lot of its individuality by getting rid of the Rebound Ace court surface and replacing it with Plexicushion. The slow surfaces are almost a replica of the hard courts in New York.

Another long-term issue is the position in the calendar. January has long been seen as far too early in the season for the year’s opening major. March would be a much wiser time. Temperatures would be more reasonable for players and spectators, and players would have time to hone their games after the close season break.

But another aspect is gravely endangering the future of the Australian Open, and as a hometown boy, it appals me.

Hooliganism has become a constant threat. Getting tickets for the outside courts is a simple, inexpensive business, and those who want to be violently xenophobic see the tennis as a perfect battleground. I was horrified to see the mass brawl between Serbs and Croats in 2007, and the scenes of police using capsicum spray on unruly Greek supporters last week must have helped the Chinese cause as much as any multi-million-dollar inducement. The problem was made worse when an Australian supporting Lleyton Hewitt was ejected after heckling Marcos Baghdatis in the small hours of the morning when beer had clearly taken a hold.

Tennis does not need to have its image tarnished by stories that flash around the world of Melbourne’s hooligan problem.

Any complacency by Tennis Australia could be fatal.

China’s mark on sport

- China has made a grab for some of the top events on the sporting calendar

- Olympic Games in Beijing in August this year

- Masters Cup tennis tournament in Shanghai

- HSBC golf championship in Shanghai with a $5m prize pot, the largest in Asia

- Formula One Chinese Grand Prix in Shanghai

Alex999
01-20-2008, 03:46 AM
It is silly. AO is a wonderful Grand Slam and it should stay that way. Everything else in nonsense.

FitDave
01-20-2008, 03:48 AM
:lol: No chance, they're all muppets!

scoobs
01-20-2008, 03:49 AM
i can't for the life of me see the ITF bidding to move the Australian Open when it is setting attendance records.

The facilities can be upgraded and possibly more to do on the security front to deal with the nationalists and the drunks, but the rest is gibberish.

By any acceptable measure this tournament is a success.

If they moved it to China there would be a mutiny.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 03:55 AM
Makes me sick that that communist country is allowed to host any international sporting events at all.

Scotso
01-20-2008, 03:59 AM
Dumbest article of the year thus far. It's not going to happen.

Scotso
01-20-2008, 03:59 AM
Makes me sick that that communist country is allowed to host any international sporting events at all.

They're not Communists, they're just your typical authoritarian regime, just like in Dubai and numerous other places that host tennis events.

Aloimeh
01-20-2008, 04:02 AM
The only possible countries I could see getting a new "slam" would be Spain, Germany, and Russia. However, Spain is rather unlikely due to how similar the event would be to RG. Therefore, it would most likely be Germany or Russia.

That said, considering the fact that China doesn't really have any great tennis talents at the moment, nor has it had a tradition of great tennis players, I think having the Masters Cup in Shanghai should be enough for them.

acharlesmobile
01-20-2008, 04:05 AM
china doesn't deserve it. I would rather see spain or russia get it than china. They actually have some decent players. Im sure china can improve it's tennis without a grand slam.

Jimnik
01-20-2008, 04:06 AM
The Chinese don't even have ambitions. Anyone who saw the Beijing Open last year can see that. Their players are crap and the fans are even worse, I remember the SF Lee-Gonzalez the only spectators were a few Chileans and Koreans.

We'll see what happens at the Olympics this year but again I expect the vast majority of people turning up to be foreign. It's absolutely no wonder that the TMC is moving after this year.

Kolya
01-20-2008, 04:22 AM
Also I doubt many people could afford the tickets to watch.

bjurra
01-20-2008, 04:45 AM
Someone at Times should have told Pat Cash he is in idiot who should try to sell his garbage to another paper.

Scotso
01-20-2008, 04:46 AM
Why are people even taking this seriously? Come on, people, it was written by Pat Cash.

Action Jackson
01-20-2008, 04:46 AM
Not happening.

kisses
01-20-2008, 04:49 AM
:o What's wrong with China?
You guys should blame the one who wrote this stupid article instead of blaming China's "ambition" to add one GS in Asia. :(

:o Wake up to know the real China and not the stupid rumors.

xtiano
01-20-2008, 04:59 AM
Events like TMC in China is acceptable, but a grand slam would definitely be a BIG joke.

Kolya
01-20-2008, 04:59 AM
:o What's wrong with China?
You guys should blame the one who wrote this stupid article instead of blaming China's "ambition" to add one GS in Asia. :(

:o Wake up to know the real China and not the stupid rumors.

China just doesn't deserve to host a GS.

Tennistunes
01-20-2008, 05:05 AM
YES! this is going to happen for sure....China will also have the Super Bowl, The Masters Golf Tournament and the World Series too! (sarcasm)

This is so silly...it is not going to happen...

Rod Laver, Roy Emerson and Margaret Court are bigger names than Hu Na and Tian Tian Sun...sorry...it is not money and facilities that make tournaments great...it is tradition. China ain't got it...Give them the Tennis Masters Cup for a long term deal and have them create some tradition with that...that is great event that every one enjoys....Give them the women's event too and make it a mini Slam...

Who concurs?!?!?!

martinatreue
01-20-2008, 05:18 AM
The Chinese players' style of game is incredibly dull to me. It's like the antithesis of the French style which I love. Hopefully china never gets to just BUY a grand slam.

Fee
01-20-2008, 05:33 AM
Why are people even taking this seriously? Come on, people, it was written by Pat Cash.

Word.

But let's try to take this seriously for a moment. The Chinese can throw all the money they want at tennis, and get some events here and there, but until you actually let your players play a full season on tour, you have no leg to stand on when it comes to a Slam.

jcempire
01-20-2008, 05:36 AM
I don't believe it. What a joke

alexinmusic
01-20-2008, 05:38 AM
ugly rumor made up by an anti-Chinese writer and silly comments due to credulity and ill-minded.
Well, every chinese know that it's a joke for China to take off AO and never have the stupid "ambition". However, when edited in this way to deliberately provoke a conflict, it's almost an insultation and it has outraged me.

Open your mind guys, don't be foolish and try to have a deeper insight of China!

gomeny
01-20-2008, 05:51 AM
There is has been rumors for ages for having 3 out of the 4 slams on American soil.

baghdatis
01-20-2008, 05:57 AM
Ive got just 1 thing to say:

FAT CHANCE!! :lol:

:rolls: :haha:

gomeny
01-20-2008, 06:00 AM
Ive got just 1 thing to say:

FAT CHANCE!! :lol:

:rolls: :haha:

Why not? If you want to grow the sport China(ASEAN & India) would make sense. It would be have to be long term investment that loses money four years.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 06:29 AM
Makes me sick that that communist country is allowed to host any international sporting events at all.

Exactly--China is one of the major factors holding back world peace. First off, they don't deserve their veto power in the UN when all they do is abuse it in a self serving manner, not the manner the UN is ideally supposed to function. Secondly, to be allowed to host the Olympics is already a damn shame. They promised to clean up but as of yet, nothing has happened. Third, what is the deal with this Chinese-Taipei bullshit? If you didn't have about 1000 missiles aimed at Taiwan, it would simply be Taiwan. I hope that the referendum this year coinciding with the Olympics shows China for what it is. Fourth, some major changes need to happen in China before it could EVER hope to acquire a grand slam. Lastly, it will never get a grand slam.

gsm
01-20-2008, 06:39 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/20/2142438.htm
Calls for Australian Open to be move to Shanghai

Chinese number one Li Na called for the Australian Open to be moved to Shanghai, saying the city's climate was better for tennis than Melbourne.

Li backed the prospect of shifting the season-opening grand slam, which has been played in Australia since 1905...

acionescu
01-20-2008, 06:46 AM
Makes me sick that that communist country is allowed to host any international sporting events at all.

:yeah:

acionescu
01-20-2008, 06:56 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/20/2142438.htm


Who is Li Na and what she did for tennis? Maybe she need to read Federer's opinion on the matter! I suppose everybody knows who Federer is! :eek:

gomeny
01-20-2008, 06:59 AM
Exactly--China is one of the major factors holding back world peace. First off, they don't deserve their veto power in the UN when all they do is abuse it in a self serving manner, not the manner the UN is ideally supposed to function. Secondly, to be allowed to host the Olympics is already a damn shame. They promised to clean up but as of yet, nothing has happened. Third, what is the deal with this Chinese-Taipei bullshit? If you didn't have about 1000 missiles aimed at Taiwan, it would simply be Taiwan. I hope that the referendum this year coinciding with the Olympics shows China for what it is. Fourth, some major changes need to happen in China before it could EVER hope to acquire a grand slam. Lastly, it will never get a grand slam.


Where have you been for the last 10'000 years of human civilization?
China will grow the sport.

Scotso
01-20-2008, 07:05 AM
Exactly--China is one of the major factors holding back world peace. First off, they don't deserve their veto power in the UN when all they do is abuse it in a self serving manner, not the manner the UN is ideally supposed to function.

There isn't a country in the world that doesn't use their power in a self-serving manner.

RonE
01-20-2008, 07:08 AM
Paranoid much, Pat?

luzkoz
01-20-2008, 07:11 AM
No chance for China...

tripb19
01-20-2008, 07:13 AM
Hey don't make fun of Pat Cash. He right article good.

Hokit
01-20-2008, 07:18 AM
We don't even know whether there's been a serious bid to bring a grand slam to China. Yet already there's a lot of anti-Chinese comments thrown around. It makes it seem that some are scandalised more by the thought of a grand slam moving to a non-Western country, rather than carte blanche excuses of the Australian Open's "rich history" or the lack of top Chinese players (even though China's new to the sport).

Fuck off China...

You have no tennis history or contribution to the game... you don't deserve a grand slam.

And I suppose you're fit to judge whether an entire nation "deserves" a grand slam or not?

World Beater
01-20-2008, 07:21 AM
Okay, so how far do you want to take this argument? If China's politics makes the country undeserving of a slam, then what about the US for engaging in an illegal war and use of torture? Maybe Wimbledon shouldn't be in England because of the UK's support for the Iraq War; maybe France doesn't deserve Roland Garros due to its long history of imperialism/colonialism; maybe Australia doesn't deserve their slam due to the way they've screwed over the indigenous population and their poor environmental record. Maybe Russia doesn't deserve any tennis tournaments for the heavy-handed way they actively discourage neighboring nations from forming closer ties with the EU.

Sorry, but this tired argument comes up every time the Dubai tournament rolls around and it's a pointless argument. Sure, it would be nice if all the governments of countries that hosted tennis tournaments were perfect in every possible way, but it's not going to happen, and tennis's future, for better or for worse, is going to be shaped more by money than by politics.

good post.

its alarming to see the ignorance of some of the posters here. Every country has its share of "ugly history".

citing communism etc as valid arguments as to why China shouldn't host international events is :retard:

at the end of the day, tennis is about money and economics. If China can fill the seats and pay the premiums, then they should also have the right to host some important tournaments (not saying they should host GS).

the grand slams are not going to remain in the same four countries forever. at some pt things will change and if the ITF decides it values money over history, then so be it.

mandynyuna
01-20-2008, 07:32 AM
Wow, so a thread discussing whether the Australian Open could be shifted to China has turned into a Bash China Because They Are Communist Thread.....how intelligent.....

CyBorg
01-20-2008, 07:33 AM
This article is bullshlt propaganda.

yomike
01-20-2008, 07:38 AM
Like that's gonna happen.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 07:42 AM
:o What's wrong with China?
You guys should blame the one who wrote this stupid article instead of blaming China's "ambition" to add one GS in Asia. :(

:o Wake up to know the real China and not the stupid rumors.

The real china is a country led by the same government that masacared it's own students at Tiananmen Square.

hanshiguan
01-20-2008, 08:02 AM
Fuck off China...

You have no tennis history or contribution to the game... you don't deserve a grand slam.

impolite man :rolleyes:

hanshiguan
01-20-2008, 08:04 AM
love tennis
make progress

hanshiguan
01-20-2008, 08:07 AM
Who is Li Na and what she did for tennis? Maybe she need to read Federer's opinion on the matter! I suppose everybody knows who Federer is! :eek:


and who R U :confused::confused::confused: poor man :p

alexinmusic
01-20-2008, 08:11 AM
The real china is a country led by the same government that masacared it's own students at Tiananmen Square.

Which do you want to blame for, the government or the country & its people. you say that not beacuase you understand the fact but out of a ignorent hatred of a country you are unfamiliar with, because you cannot differentiate the two at all.
Besides,in respect of your post, you are probably a victim of propaganda, lacking the ability of critical thinking. you may not know even a little business of China, and you thought is far away from a constructive and well-founded one.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 08:12 AM
Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

Bremen
01-20-2008, 08:13 AM
Which do you want to blame for, the government or the country & its people. you say that not beacuase you understand the fact but out of a ignorent hatred of a country you are unfamiliar with, because you cannot differentiate the two at all.
Besides,in respect of your post, you are probably a victim of propaganda, lacking the ability of critical thinking. you may not know even a little business of China, and you thought is far away from a constructive and well-founded one.

I blame the government for the massacre...by the way the government is made up of chinese people. At any time they could change the way their country is run.

kisses
01-20-2008, 08:16 AM
Exactly--China is one of the major factors holding back world peace. First off, they don't deserve their veto power in the UN when all they do is abuse it in a self serving manner, not the manner the UN is ideally supposed to function. Secondly, to be allowed to host the Olympics is already a damn shame. They promised to clean up but as of yet, nothing has happened. Third, what is the deal with this Chinese-Taipei bullshit? If you didn't have about 1000 missiles aimed at Taiwan, it would simply be Taiwan. I hope that the referendum this year coinciding with the Olympics shows China for what it is. Fourth, some major changes need to happen in China before it could EVER hope to acquire a grand slam. Lastly, it will never get a grand slam.
so you can decide who are devoted more to world peace? and you can decide who are deserved the Olympics? :rolleyes: and about the Taiwan issue, it's our nation issue, we don't wanna bother you to care. And,if someday we have a GS, don't forget to eat your words. Finally,if you are mature enough you should know that we can put up with your critics about Chinese goverment but not our nation and our people, and please make your expression clear.

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 08:17 AM
Financially, it would be a great move for the ITF. If they want the sport to grow, then China is the place to do it in.

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 08:20 AM
Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
:lol: wiki is a blocked site here in china. wo ai zhong guo.

alexinmusic
01-20-2008, 08:30 AM
I blame the government for the massacre...by the way the government is made up of chinese people. At any time they could change the way their country is run.

just ridiculous, you cite the massacre and do you know why it happened? and you say that people can change the way their country is run, can they? you know nothing about China, and take it for granted that China is evil because the way it runs differs from you country.

by the way, wiki is edited by whomever want to edit the items, which has extremely bias on some items, and you have your faith in it, citing to us as an evidence.:o

i think you just hate us Chinese out of prejustice, as you never accept a word form us illogically.:mad:

Lucinda
01-20-2008, 08:30 AM
I wonder if this is why the commentators (Cahill?) said Melbourne was putting in a bunch of money for renovations of the park... Pressure?

Stensland
01-20-2008, 08:32 AM
The only possible countries I could see getting a new "slam" would be Spain, Germany, and Russia. However, Spain is rather unlikely due to how similar the event would be to RG. Therefore, it would most likely be Germany or Russia.


thanks, but tennis is dead in germany. we can hardly afford the tournaments we have at the moment, so giving a slam to germany wouldn't make any sense i guess.

kisses
01-20-2008, 08:34 AM
Makes me sick that that communist country is allowed to host any international sporting events at all.
Before you making some decision you'd better know more about what you are talking about. :rolleyes:
Communism is someting united the nation to build a new coutry and a new government to avoid China becoming the colony of other nations( eg. European Nations,the USA...and Japan) in the history.
and now? We are just trying to finding out a Chinese way to devolop our courtry. It's a joke that just because we don't buy the western political rule and we are evil. We NEVER depend on the communism,and what we believe is our nation's long tradional culture and rules.

Fee
01-20-2008, 08:35 AM
There is has been rumors for ages for having 3 out of the 4 slams on American soil.

yeah, sure it has. Which two would move? Wimbledon? Roland Garros? Seriously?

:smoke:

Leo
01-20-2008, 08:37 AM
Ridiculous. Australian Open is becoming the BEST Grand Slam in terms of quality. Recently it's the French Open that has been dull.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 08:38 AM
:lol: wiki is a blocked site here in china. wo ai zhong guo.

Lol, that kind of proves my point...

just ridiculous, you cite the massacre and do you know why it happened? and you say that people can change the way their country is run, can they?

by the way, wiki is edited by whomever want to edit the items, which has extremely bias on some items, and you have your faith in it, citing to us as an evidence.:o

i think you just hate us Chinese out of prejustice, as you never accept a word form us illogically.:mad:

Mao was a chinese man from humble origins who most people would say changed they way his country was run, so yeah, it is possible.

That wikipedia article has a lot of verifiable sources backing it up, I wouldn't dismiss it so easily. Anyway, the world knows China has a horrible human rights record, it doesn't matter what I say.

I have nothing against Chinese people, but their government is extremely scary and needs to be deposed.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 08:41 AM
Before you making some decision you'd better know more about what you are talking about. :rolleyes:
Communism is someting united the nation to build a new coutry and a new government to avoid China becoming the colony of other nations( eg. European Nations,the USA...and Japan) in the history.
and now? We are just trying to finding out a Chinese way to devolop our courtry. It's a joke that just because we don't buy the western political rule and we are evil. We NEVER depend on the communism,and what we believe is our nation's long tradional culture and rules.

You're brainwashed. Your government is destroying your traditional culture.

There's a better way. Look at South Korea and Japan. They're thriving. I wonder why?

Aloimeh
01-20-2008, 08:52 AM
This thread has gotten ridiculous. Western countries preaching to anyone else about human rights is ridiculous. All countries have ugly histories. Including the US, UK, Australia, and France. Geez.

The reason China shouldn't get a slam at the moment isn't because of human rights or history, it's because they don't have the players of that caliber and they haven't had a tradition of producing great players in the past either. And I'm not sure that the sport is popular enough, anyway. With such a massive population, China should be able to produce some great players in the future, and at that point I wouldn't have anything against a slam being there.

Hopefully, slam locations ought to reflect the most represented countries by the top players, at least to some degree/historically. At the moment, those would be Spain, Russia, Germany, Czech Republic, and maybe someday Serbia? Of those, I can only see three as being viable options, for economic and political reasons. And I'm actually pretty sure that the next country to get a slam will be Russia.

kisses
01-20-2008, 08:59 AM
Lol, that kind of proves my point...



Mao was a chinese man from humble origins who most people would say changed they way his country was run, so yeah, it is possible.

That wikipedia article has a lot of verifiable sources backing it up, I wouldn't dismiss it so easily. Anyway, the world knows China has a horrible human rights record, it doesn't matter what I say.

I have nothing against Chinese people, but their government is extremely scary and needs to be deposed.
In Mao's age,China is at the edge of a nation's death, so he became the hero of the country. (and of course there is opinions opposite) Anyway, how can any American be a Washington? About the tian'an'men massacre and human rights issue, you do think there is Garden of Eden everywhere out of China?

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 08:59 AM
And I'm actually pretty sure that the next country to get a slam will be Russia.
:lol: can we please not give russia a slam? what a disaster that would be.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 09:03 AM
This thread has gotten ridiculous. Western countries preaching to anyone else about human rights is ridiculous. All countries have ugly histories. Including the US, UK, Australia, and France. Geez.

The reason China shouldn't get a slam at the moment isn't because of human rights or history, it's because they don't have the players of that caliber and they haven't had a tradition of producing great players in the past either. And I'm not sure that the sport is popular enough, anyway. With such a massive population, China should be able to produce some great players in the future, and at that point I wouldn't have anything against a slam being there.

Hopefully, slam locations ought to reflect the most represented countries by the top players, at least to some degree/historically. At the moment, those would be Spain, Russia, Germany, Czech Republic, and maybe someday Serbia? Of those, I can only see three as being viable options, for economic and political reasons. And I'm actually pretty sure that the next country to get a slam will be Russia.

Western countries have some of the best human rights records in the world...anyway, just because other countries have deficiencies doesn't preclude them from speaking out, if that was the case, no one should have said anything about the US going into Iraq.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 09:04 AM
In Mao's age,China is at the edge of a nation's death, so he became the hero of the country. (and of course there is opinions opposite) Anyway, how can any American be a Washington? About the tian'an'men massacre and human rights issue, you do think there is Garden of Eden everywhere out of China?

Yep, everywhere besides China is the garden of Eden...:rolleyes:

Action Jackson
01-20-2008, 09:04 AM
Why are people taking this seriously?

Bremen
01-20-2008, 09:05 AM
I don't believe for a second that the AO is moving, but I'm having a good time discussing China anyway...

alexinmusic
01-20-2008, 09:08 AM
Lol, that kind of proves my point...



Mao was a chinese man from humble origins who most people would say changed they way his country was run, so yeah, it is possible.

That wikipedia article has a lot of verifiable sources backing it up, I wouldn't dismiss it so easily. Anyway, the world knows China has a horrible human rights record, it doesn't matter what I say.

I have nothing against Chinese people, but their government is extremely scary and needs to be deposed.

i'm very regreted to have a speaking with you. and I strongly recommend that a critical thinking course is helpful for your illness.:cool:
your example of MAO is so weak that i have no interest to refute you. just remind you that MAO is one the most autocritic dominator in the chinese history(thousands years), but "democractic policy" is not always a right way to improve the welfare of people and even human right. Maybe you cannot believe, but it's true. you may forget that the truth cannot be voted.

WIKIPEDIA has verifiable sources but unfortunately no voice from domestic China. Wiki is a kind of kaleidoscope however only in western perspectives. you know few chinese living in china, and little about what we think.
I can just tell you that most people in chinese' tennis forum(bbs.tennis.com.cn) hate you because you performed so hostile to china. however,it is your right to visit there to see our opinion, even though you are so unwelcome for us. before you visit there and discuss chinese issue, you must learn chinese language and more improtant, to respect the way of thinking of another culture.

may you have a good night!

Aloimeh
01-20-2008, 09:08 AM
Western countries have some of the best human rights records in the world...anyway, just because other countries have deficiencies doesn't preclude them from speaking out, if that was the case, no one should have said anything about the US going into Iraq.

They may have the best human rights records for their own citizens. But not necessarily for others, and certainly not historically. France's behavior in Algeria, Vietnam, and Rwanda was atrocious. Belgium's in Rwanda was similarly so (instituting ethnic supremacy during their colonialist rule and issuing identity cards to separate Tutsis and Hutus, thus facilitating the genocide). The UK supported Pinochet, a murdering dictator who threw people out of airplanes into the Pacific Ocean. And the US supported fascists in Latin America, practically destroyed Vietnam, attacked Iraq in 1991 (albeit Iraq was invading Kuwait), bombed the Balkans twice in the 1990s, invaded Iraq again and basically destroyed the country, invaded Afghanistan (previously they helped the Taliban thugs kill Russians in the 1980s), etc.

Western countries have some of the worst human rights records when it comes to "other" countries. They only treat their own citizens very well, but others not so much.

jenanun
01-20-2008, 09:11 AM
Western countries have some of the best human rights records in the world...

:haha:
:haha:
:haha:
:haha:

kisses
01-20-2008, 09:13 AM
You're brainwashed. Your government is destroying your traditional culture.

There's a better way. Look at South Korea and Japan. They're thriving. I wonder why?
Are you sure you are not joking?
South Korea? Japan?
Do you know that China has dozens of populations and territory of these twe country? Are you sure we can be better in their ways?
I'm in Beijing and there is Korea people everywhere and in China you can see Korea TV stars any time. They immigrate to China and they try to expand their career in China. And even worse, they stole our culture and make their own.... OK I'm not to offend anyone from South Korea and just want to say China is not a place of Evil as some people think. :rolleyes:

Aloimeh
01-20-2008, 09:20 AM
South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan basically all have or until very recently had one-party rule. These are not multiparty "democarcies" in any real sense. Japan's law is essentially "guilty until proven innocent" - hence crime is so low. Japan is a deeply xenophobic society, much more so than China, and treats other Asians (not to mentions black and poor whites (rich whites are OK I guess)) like trash. Koreans who have lived in Japan for over 100 years are still not even citizens! Japanese society still essentially denies its atrocities throughout Asia during WWII.

Stop associating economic prosperity with "human rights." Japan and South Korea may have more polished records when it comes to free speech and information opportunities than China, but they are not democracies in the European sense and Japan in particular treats its non-Japanese minorities like trash. China has done a lot more to reach out to its minorities (of which there are nearly 100 million people!), calling all of them (even non-Han) Chinese, with even some kinds of affirmative action-type policies for them. Maybe overall human rights are poor but I'd be willing to bet that there's less ethnic discrimination within Chinese society (Han vs. non-Han) than there is in Japan vis-a-vis their minorities.

alexinmusic
01-20-2008, 09:20 AM
hey kisses.I'll go back to "tennis", there are some poor western people who never will to understand and respect the eastern culture.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 09:21 AM
Before you making some decision you'd better know more about what you are talking about. :rolleyes:
Communism is someting united the nation to build a new coutry and a new government to avoid China becoming the colony of other nations( eg. European Nations,the USA...and Japan) in the history.
and now? We are just trying to finding out a Chinese way to devolop our courtry. It's a joke that just because we don't buy the western political rule and we are evil. We NEVER depend on the communism,and what we believe is our nation's long tradional culture and rules.:worship:

I like the way the Chinese, and other east-Asian countries, have had their own way to develop.

I have been to Taiwan not long ago and globalization is a terrible process that ruins every bit of individualism and uniqueness (no offense to the people of Taiwan, it is a wonderful COUNTRY, forget about the Chinese Taipei BS).

I, as a citizen of a country that has always set its sights on the western culture, have always been taught that capitalism and democracy are the real deal. Seeing as there are numerous problems with these two, I can accept it that some countries may find other political/financial doctrines more suitable.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 09:23 AM
Hell hath no fury like a chink scorned.

LOL, I really touched a nerve.

i'm very regreted to have a speaking with you. and I strongly recommend that a critical thinking course is helpful for your illness.:cool:
your example of MAO is so weak that i have no interest to refute you. just remind you that MAO is one the most autocritic dominator in the chinese history(thousands years), but "democractic policy" is not always a right way to improve the welfare of people and even human right. Maybe you cannot believe, but it's true. you may forget that the truth cannot be voted.

WIKIPEDIA has verifiable sources but unfortunately no voice from domestic China. Wiki is a kind of kaleidoscope however only in western perspectives. you know few chinese living in china, and little about what we think.
I can just tell you that most people in chinese' tennis forum(bbs.tennis.com.cn) hate you because you performed so hostile to china. however,it is your right to visit there to see our opinion, even though you are so unwelcome for us. before you visit there and discuss chinese issue, you must learn chinese language and more improtant, to respect the way of thinking of another culture.

may you have a good night!

Your welcome to come to Canada any time!

They may have the best human rights records for their own citizens. But not necessarily for others, and certainly not historically. France's behavior in Algeria, Vietnam, and Rwanda was atrocious. Belgium's in Rwanda was similarly so (instituting ethnic supremacy during their colonialist rule and issuing identity cards to separate Tutsis and Hutus, thus facilitating the genocide). The UK supported Pinochet, a murdering dictator who threw people out of airplanes into the Pacific Ocean. And the US supported fascists in Latin America, practically destroyed Vietnam, attacked Iraq in 1991 (albeit Iraq was invading Kuwait), bombed the Balkans twice in the 1990s, invaded Iraq again and basically destroyed the country, invaded Afghanistan (previously they helped the Taliban thugs kill Russians in the 1980s), etc.

Western countries have some of the worst human rights records when it comes to "other" countries. They only treat their own citizens very well, but others not so much.

No country is perfect, I'm aware of the crimes commited by western nations. I still don't see how a communist country can compare to a western democratic one though when it comes to issues of freedom and basic rights. Last time I checked the western world has no restrictions on the amount of children one can have.

:haha:
:haha:
:haha:
:haha:

What's so funny? What countries have better records??

Yearly worldwide press freedom ranking of countries
published by Reporters Without Borders

Rank Country Index Notes
2007 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002
1 Iceland 0.75 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50
1 Norway 0.75 2.00 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50
3 Estonia 1.00 2.00 1.50 2.00 2.50
3 Slovakia 1.00 2.50 0.75 0.50 2.50
5 Belgium 1.50 4.00 4.00 4.00 1.17 3.50
5 Finland 1.50 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50
5 Sweden 1.50 4.00 2.00 2.00 1.50 1.50
8 Denmark 2.00 5.00 0.50 0.50 1.00 3.00
8 Ireland 2.00 0.50 0.50 0.50 2.83 1.00
8 Portugal 2.00 3.00 4.83 4.50 5.17 1.50
11 Switzerland 3.00 2.50 0.50 0.50 2.50 4.25
12 Latvia 3.50 3.00 2.50 1.00 2.25
12 Netherlands 3.50 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50
14 Czech Republic 4.00 0.75 1.00 3.50 2.50 11.25
15 New Zealand 4.17 5.00 2.00 0.67 2.83
16 Austria 4.25 4.50 2.50 3.25 2.75 7.50
17 Hungary 4.50 3.00 2.00 6.00 3.33 6.50
18 Canada 4.88 4.50 4.50 3.33 1.83 0.75
19 Trinidad and Tobago 5.00 5.00 2.00 2.00 1.00
20 Germany 5.75 5.50 4.00 2.00 1.33 1.50
21 Costa Rica 6.50 6.67 8.50 7.63 3.83 4.25
21 Slovenia 6.50 3.00 1.00 2.25 3.00 4.00
23 Lithuania 7.00 6.50 4.50 3.00 2.83
24 United Kingdom 8.25 6.50 5.17 6.00 4.25 6.00
25 Mauritius 8.50 8.00 7.50 10.50 7.25 9.50
25 Namibia 8.50 6.00 5.50 10.00 11.00 8.00
27 Jamaica 8.63 5.50 7.50 4.17 3.33
28 Australia 8.79 9.00 6.50 9.50 9.25 3.50
29 Ghana 9.00 8.50 15.00 13.50 8.75 23.00
30 Greece 9.25 8.00 4.00 7.00 6.00 5.00
31 France 9.75 9.00 6.25 3.50 4.17 3.25
32 Republic of China (Taiwan) 10.00 10.50 12.25 14.25 12.00 9.00
33 Spain 10.25 10.00 8.33 9.00 7.67 7.75
34 Bosnia and Herzegovina 11.17 5.00 7.00 3.67 6.83 12.50
35 Italy 11.25 9.90 8.67 9.00 9.75 11.00
36 Republic of Macedonia 11.50 11.50 8.75 11.25 9.67
37 Japan 11.75 12.50 8.00 10.00 8.00 7.50
37 Uruguay 11.75 13.75 9.75 10.00 4.00 6.00
Grenada 12.00
39 Chile 12.13 11.63 11.75 10.00 6.83 6.50
39 South Korea 12.13 7.75 7.50 11.13 9.17 10.50
41 Croatia 12.50 13.00 12.83 11.83 16.50 8.75
42 Romania 12.75 14.00 16.17 17.83 11.50 13.25
43 South Africa 13.00 11.25 6.50 5.00 3.33 7.50
44 Israel (Israeli territory) 13.25 12.00 10.00 8.00 8.00 30.00
45 Cape Verde 14.00 11.50 6.00 8.75 8.25 13.75
45 Cyprus 14.00 7.50 5.50 22.00 20.83 pre-2005 data included Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
47 Nicaragua 14.25 15.50 15.25 11.67 6.50
48 United States 14.50 13.00 9.50 4.00 6.00 4.75
49 Togo 15.17 15.00 23.75 19.50 27.50 31.50
50 Mauritania 15.50 17.50 40.00 51.00 36.67 41.33
51 Bulgaria 16.25 9.00 10.25 8.00 6.50 9.75
52 Mali 16.50 9.00 8.00 12.83 11.00 12.50
53 Benin 17.00 5.50 5.50 5.50 5.25 6.00
54 Panama 17.88 9.50 15.00 14.50 9.75 15.50
55 Tanzania 18.00 19.82 17.50 14.50 16.50 21.25
56 Ecuador 18.50 15.25 21.75 16.50 7.67 5.50
56 Poland 18.50 14.00 12.50 6.83 6.17 7.75
58 Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus 19.00 14.50 12.50 22.00 20.83 pre-2005 data included Cyprus
58 Montenegro 19.00 11.50 14.83 20.13 21.33 20.75 pre-2007 data from Serbia and Montenegro
60 Kosovo 19.75 16.00 25.75 20.13 21.33 20.75 pre-2005 data from Serbia and Montenegro
61 Hong Kong 20.00 14.00 8.25 7.50 11.00 4.83
61 Madagascar 20.00 15.00 24.50 18.50 8.17 22.75
63 Kuwait 20.17 17.00 21.25 31.67 31.33 25.50
64 El Salvador 20.20 10.00 5.75 6.00 6.83 8.75
65 United Arab Emirates 20.25 17.50 25.75 50.25 37.00
66 Georgia 20.83 21.00 25.17 27.50 17.33
67 Serbia 21.00 11.50 14.83 20.13 21.33 20.75 pre-2007 data from Serbia and Montenegro
68 Bolivia 21.50 4.50 9.67 20.00 9.67 14.50
68 Burkina Faso 21.50 16.00 19.00 16.25 18.00 27.75
68 Zambia 21.50 22.50 23.00 29.75 23.25 26.75
71 Central African Republic 22.50 14.50 19.75 32.50 32.75 21.50
72 Dominican Republic 22.75 12.75 12.25 6.75 17.00
73 Mozambique 23.00 11.50 10.50 16.25 14.00 23.50
74 Mongolia 23.40 19.25 12.50 19.00 18.25 24.50
75 Botswana 23.50 13.00 14.00 11.50 13.00
75 Haiti 23.50 19.50 33.50 42.13 31.00 36.50
77 Armenia 23.63 25.50 26.00 23.50 25.17
78 Kenya 23.75 30.25 30.00 22.25 18.50 24.75
79 Qatar 24.00 18.00 23.00 32.50 35.00
80 Republic of the Congo 24.50 17.00 17.00 17.50 14.00 23.17
81 Moldova 24.75 19.17 17.50 20.50 27.00
82 Argentina 24.83 17.30 13.67 21.33 15.17 12.00
83 Senegal 25.00 17.50 19.00 21.50 14.50 14.00
84 Brazil 25.25 17.17 14.50 16.50 16.75 18.75
85 Cambodia 25.33 27.25 23.00 36.50 19.50 24.25
85 Liberia 25.33 19.00 20.50 40.00 40.00 37.75
87 Albania 25.50 18.00 14.17 11.50 6.50
87 Honduras 25.50 14.50 18.00 11.75 14.17
87 Niger 25.50 24.50 13.00 18.33 15.75 18.50
90 Paraguay 26.10 18.25 15.50 10.50 7.17 8.50
91 Angola 26.50 21.50 18.00 26.50 28.00 30.17
92 Malawi 26.75 25.50 22.75 31.00 21.00 27.67
92 Ukraine 26.75 26.50 32.50 51.00 40.00 40.00
94 Côte d'Ivoire 27.00 25.00 52.25 60.38 42.17 19.00
94 Timor-Leste 27.00 18.50 13.50 13.50 5.50
96 Comoros 28.00 22.50 22.00 26.50 18.50 20.50
96 Uganda 28.00 29.83 19.25 24.00 25.75 17.00
98 Lebanon 28.75 27.00 28.25 24.38 32.50 19.67
99 Lesotho 29.50 16.00 19.50 29.50 17.75
100 Indonesia 30.50 26.00 26.00 37.75 34.25 20.00
101 Turkey 31.25 25.00 25.00 37.25 35.00 33.50
102 Gabon 31.50 28.50 26.00 37.50 31.25 20.50
103 Israel (extra-territorial) 32.00 47.00 37.50 49.00
104 Guatemala 33.00 21.25 21.50 16.50 30.83 27.25
104 Seychelles 33.00 24.50 17.00 23.50 26.75 20.75
106 Morocco 33.25 24.83 36.17 43.00 39.67 29.00
107 Fiji 33.50 14.00 14.00 16.00 11.50
107 Guinea 33.50 27.50 26.00 24.50 33.17 26.00
107 Guinea-Bissau 33.50 14.50 17.00 23.50 35.25 30.25
110 Kyrgyzstan 33.60 34.00 32.00 35.25 32.00 31.75
111 Cameroon 36.00 28.25 20.50 27.00 30.50 28.83
111 United States (extra-territorial) 36.00 31.50 48.50 36.00 41.00
113 Chad 36.50 35.50 30.00 33.25 24.00 28.75
114 Venezuela 36.88 29.00 23.00 24.63 27.83 25.00
115 Tajikistan 37.00 30.00 33.00 27.75 34.50 28.25
116 Bhutan 37.17 25.00 51.50 55.83 77.33 90.75
117 Peru 37.38 28.25 33.33 40.00 10.25 9.50
118 Bahrain 38.00 28.00 38.75 52.50 35.17 23.00
Brunei 38.00
119 Tonga 38.25 13.00 14.50 38.17
120 India 39.33 26.50 27.00 38.50 39.00 26.50
121 Sierra Leone 39.50 26.00 39.50 24.50 23.50 24.50
122 Jordan 40.21 27.50 24.00 39.13 37.00 33.50
123 Algeria 40.50 40.00 40.33 43.50 33.00 31.00
124 Malaysia 41.00 22.25 33.00 39.83 32.00 37.83
125 Kazakhstan 41.63 41.00 36.17 44.17 42.50 42.00
126 Colombia 42.33 44.75 40.17 47.38 49.17 40.83
127 Burundi 43.40 39.83
128 Philippines 44.75 51.00 50.00 36.63 35.25 29.00
129 Maldives 45.17 51.25 58.50 69.17 47.50
130 Gambia 48.25 54.00 41.00 29.50 18.25 22.50
131 Nigeria 49.83 32.23 38.75 37.75 31.50 15.50
132 Djibouti 50.25 33.00 37.00 55.00 35.50 31.25
133 Democratic Republic of the Congo 50.50 51.00 57.33 51.50 38.50 40.75
134 Bangladesh 53.17 48.00 61.25 62.50 46.50 43.75
135 Thailand 53.50 33.50 28.00 14.00 19.67 22.75
136 Mexico 53.63 45.83 45.50 27.83 17.67 24.75
137 Nepal 53.75 73.50 86.75 84.00 51.50 63.00
138 Swaziland 54.50 40.50 35.00 31.00 37.50 29.00
139 Azerbaijan 55.40 47.00 51.00 49.67 34.50 34.50
140 Sudan 55.75 48.13 44.00 44.25 45.75 36.00
141 Singapore 56.00 51.50 50.67 57.00 47.33
142 Afghanistan 56.50 44.25 39.17 28.25 40.17 35.50
143 Yemen 56.67 54.00 46.25 48.00 41.83 34.75
144 Russia 56.90 52.50 48.67 51.38 49.50 48.00
145 Tunisia 57.00 53.75 57.50 62.67 50.83 67.75
Oman 57.75
146 Egypt 58.00 46.25 52.00 43.50 34.25 34.50
147 Rwanda 58.88 41.00 38.00 37.25 34.25 37.50
148 Saudi Arabia 59.75 76.00 66.00 79.17 71.50 62.50
149 Zimbabwe 62.00 50.00 64.25 67.50 45.50 48.25
150 Ethiopia 63.00 75.00 42.00 37.00 37.50 37.50
151 Belarus 63.63 57.00 61.33 54.10 52.00 52.17
152 Pakistan 64.83 70.33 60.75 61.75 39.00 44.67
153 Equatorial Guinea 65.25 48.00 44.00 46.25 44.75 42.75
154 Syria 66.00 63.00 55.00 67.50 67.50 62.83
155 Libya 66.50 62.50 88.75 65.00 60.00 72.50
156 Sri Lanka 67.50 50.75 33.25 36.50 24.83 15.75
157 Iraq 67.83 66.83 67.00 58.50 37.50 79.00
158 Palestinian Authority 69.83 46.75 42.50 43.17 39.25 27.00
159 Somalia 71.50 51.25 59.00 43.50 45.00
160 Uzbekistan 74.88 71.00 66.50 52.13 61.50 45.00
161 Laos 75.00 67.50 66.50 64.33 94.83 89.00
162 Vietnam 79.25 67.25 73.25 86.88 89.17 81.25
163 People's Republic of China (mainland only) 89.00 94.00 83.00 92.33 91.25 97.00
164 Myanmar 93.75 94.75 88.83 103.63 95.50 96.83
165 Cuba 96.17 95.00 87.00 106.83 97.83 90.25
166 Iran 96.50 90.88 89.17 78.30 89.33 48.25
167 Turkmenistan 103.75 98.50 93.50 99.83 82.83 91.50
168 North Korea 108.75 109.00 109.00 107.50 99.50 97.50
169 Eritrea 114.75 97.50 99.75 93.25 91.50 83.67

Democracy Index

January 2007 ranking
№ Country Index Category
1 Sweden 9.88 Functioning democracy
2 Iceland 9.71 Functioning democracy
3 Netherlands 9.66 Functioning democracy
4 Norway 9.55 Functioning democracy
5 Denmark 9.52 Functioning democracy
6 Finland 9.25 Functioning democracy
7 Luxembourg 9.10 Functioning democracy
8 Australia 9.09 Functioning democracy
9 Canada 9.07 Functioning democracy
10 Switzerland 9.02 Functioning democracy
11 Ireland 9.01 Functioning democracy
11 New Zealand 9.01 Functioning democracy
13 Germany 8.82 Functioning democracy
14 Austria 8.69 Functioning democracy
15 Malta 8.39 Functioning democracy
16 Spain 8.34 Functioning democracy
17 United States 8.22 Functioning democracy
18 Czech Republic 8.17 Functioning democracy
19 Portugal 8.16 Functioning democracy
20 Belgium 8.15 Functioning democracy
20 Japan 8.15 Functioning democracy
22 Greece 8.13 Functioning democracy
23 United Kingdom 8.08 Functioning democracy
24 France 8.07 Functioning democracy
25 Mauritius 8.04 Functioning democracy
25 Costa Rica 8.04 Functioning democracy
27 Slovenia 7.96 Functioning democracy
28 Uruguay 7.96 Functioning democracy
29 South Africa 7.91 Flawed democracy
30 Chile 7.89 Flawed democracy
31 South Korea 7.88 Flawed democracy
32 Taiwan 7.82 Flawed democracy
33 Estonia 7.74 Flawed democracy
34 Italy 7.73 Flawed democracy
35 India 7.68 Flawed democracy
36 Botswana 7.60 Flawed democracy
36 Cyprus 7.60 Flawed democracy
38 Hungary 7.53 Flawed democracy
39 Cape Verde 7.43 Flawed democracy
39 Lithuania 7.43 Flawed democracy
41 Slovakia 7.40 Flawed democracy
42 Brazil 7.38 Flawed democracy
43 Latvia 7.37 Flawed democracy
44 Panama 7.35 Flawed democracy
45 Jamaica 7.34 Flawed democracy
46 Poland 7.30 Flawed democracy
47 Israel 7.28 Flawed democracy
48 Trinidad and Tobago 7.18 Flawed democracy
49 Bulgaria 7.10 Flawed democracy
50 Romania 7.06 Flawed democracy
51 Croatia 7.04 Flawed democracy
52 Ukraine 6.94 Flawed democracy
53 Mexico 6.67 Flawed democracy
54 Argentina 6.63 Flawed democracy
55 Serbia 6.62 Flawed democracy
56 Mongolia 6.60 Flawed democracy
57 Sri Lanka 6.58 Flawed democracy
58 Montenegro 6.57 Flawed democracy
59 Namibia 6.54 Flawed democracy
59 Papua New Guinea 6.54 Flawed democracy
61 Suriname 6.52 Flawed democracy
62 Moldova 6.50 Flawed democracy
63 Lesotho 6.48 Flawed democracy
63 Philippines 6.48 Flawed democracy
65 Indonesia 6.41 Flawed democracy
65 Timor-Leste 6.41 Flawed democracy
67 Colombia 6.40 Flawed democracy
68 Republic of Macedonia 6.33 Flawed democracy
69 Honduras 6.25 Flawed democracy
70 El Salvador 6.22 Flawed democracy
71 Paraguay 6.16 Flawed democracy
71 Benin 6.16 Flawed democracy
73 Guyana 6.15 Flawed democracy
74 Dominican Republic 6.13 Flawed democracy
75 Bangladesh 6.11 Flawed democracy
76 Peru 6.11 Flawed democracy
77 Guatemala 6.07 Flawed democracy
78 Hong Kong 6.03 Flawed democracy
79 Palestine 6.01 Flawed democracy
80 Mali 5.99 Flawed democracy
81 Malaysia 5.98 Flawed democracy
81 Bolivia 5.98 Flawed democracy
83 Albania 5.91 Hybrid regime
84 Singapore 5.89 Hybrid regime
85 Madagascar 5.82 Hybrid regime
85 Lebanon 5.82 Hybrid regime
87 Bosnia and Herzegovina 5.78 Hybrid regime
88 Turkey 5.70 Hybrid regime
89 Nicaragua 5.68 Hybrid regime
90 Thailand 5.67 Hybrid regime
91 Fiji 5.66 Hybrid regime
92 Ecuador 5.64 Hybrid regime
93 Venezuela 5.42 Hybrid regime
94 Senegal 5.37 Hybrid regime
95 Ghana 5.35 Hybrid regime
96 Mozambique 5.28 Hybrid regime
97 Zambia 5.25 Hybrid regime
98 Liberia 5.22 Hybrid regime
99 Tanzania 5.18 Hybrid regime
100 Uganda 5.14 Hybrid regime
101 Kenya 5.08 Hybrid regime
102 Russia 5.02 Hybrid regime
103 Malawi 4.97 Hybrid regime
104 Georgia 4.90 Hybrid regime
105 Cambodia 4.77 Hybrid regime
106 Ethiopia 4.72 Hybrid regime
107 Burundi 4.51 Hybrid regime
108 Gambia 4.39 Hybrid regime
109 Haiti 4.19 Hybrid regime
110 Armenia 4.15 Hybrid regime
111 Kyrgyzstan 4.08 Hybrid regime
112 Iraq 4.01 Hybrid regime
113 Pakistan 3.92 Authoritarian regime
113 Jordan 3.92 Authoritarian regime
115 Comoros 3.90 Authoritarian regime
115 Morocco 3.90 Authoritarian regime
115 Egypt 3.90 Authoritarian regime
118 Rwanda 3.82 Authoritarian regime
119 Burkina Faso 3.72 Authoritarian regime
120 Kazakhstan 3.62 Authoritarian regime
121 Sierra Leone 3.57 Authoritarian regime
122 Niger 3.54 Authoritarian regime
123 Bahrain 3.53 Authoritarian regime
124 Cuba 3.52 Authoritarian regime
124 Nigeria 3.52 Authoritarian regime
126 Nepal 3.42 Authoritarian regime
127 Côte d'Ivoire 3.38 Authoritarian regime
128 Belarus 3.34 Authoritarian regime
129 Azerbaijan 3.31 Authoritarian regime
130 Cameroon 3.27 Authoritarian regime
131 Congo 3.19 Authoritarian regime
132 Algeria 3.17 Authoritarian regime
133 Mauritania 3.12 Authoritarian regime
134 Kuwait 3.09 Authoritarian regime
135 Afghanistan 3.06 Authoritarian regime
135 Tunisia 3.06 Authoritarian regime
137 Yemen 2.98 Authoritarian regime
138 People's Republic of China 2.97 Authoritarian regime
139 Swaziland 2.93 Authoritarian regime
139 Iran 2.93 Authoritarian regime
141 Sudan 2.90 Authoritarian regime
142 Qatar 2.78 Authoritarian regime
143 Oman 2.77 Authoritarian regime
144 Democratic Republic of the Congo 2.76 Authoritarian regime
145 Vietnam 2.75 Authoritarian regime
146 Gabon 2.72 Authoritarian regime
147 Bhutan 2.62 Authoritarian regime
147 Zimbabwe 2.62 Authoritarian regime
149 Tajikistan 2.45 Authoritarian regime
150 United Arab Emirates 2.42 Authoritarian regime
151 Angola 2.41 Authoritarian regime
152 Djibouti 2.37 Authoritarian regime
153 Syria 2.36 Authoritarian regime
154 Eritrea 2.31 Authoritarian regime
155 Laos 2.10 Authoritarian regime
156 Equatorial Guinea 2.09 Authoritarian regime
157 Guinea 2.02 Authoritarian regime
158 Guinea-Bissau 2.00 Authoritarian regime
159 Saudi Arabia 1.92 Authoritarian regime
160 Uzbekistan 1.85 Authoritarian regime
161 Libya 1.84 Authoritarian regime
162 Turkmenistan 1.83 Authoritarian regime
163 Myanmar 1.77 Authoritarian regime
164 Togo 1.75 Authoritarian regime
165 Chad 1.65 Authoritarian regime
166 Central African Republic 1.61 Authoritarian regime
167 North Korea 1.03 Authoritarian regime

With these stats it's no wonder the IOC chose China.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 09:29 AM
^^ and even the above statistics was made according to the western perception of "freedom"

Bremen
01-20-2008, 09:32 AM
^^ and even the above statistics was made according to the western perception of "freedom"

What's the eastern perception of freedom then?

Aloimeh
01-20-2008, 09:33 AM
Bremen: I stated that Western countries have the best human rights records FOR THEIR OWN POPULATION. I also stated that their records for people OUTSIDE their country and allied countries is pretty dismal. The Iraq war is an aggression the sort of which we hadn't seen globally since the days of Vietnam and the Russians in Afghanistan. And it has been a very dirty war, with children murdered left and right, white phosphorus being used, convoys that just run over people crossing the street (because they're afraid of IEDs), abuse and torture (Abu Ghraib), etc.

As for your "list" of countries, there's something in science called "spot-checking" - where you check a few random points to see how they match with the overall trend. In your top 20 are countries such as Slovakia, Czech Republic, and Latvia. While I have nothing against these people/countries and think they are very beautiful, they are hardly beacons of human rights. Slovakia and the Czech Republic have very sizable Roma/Gypsy populations who are denied even the most basic human rights. Their children are automatically sent to schools for the retarded, they can't get employed (even the ones who try to get out of the cycle of crime and poverty), and walls have been built around their communities (ghetto?) to "block out their noise." Latvia has not come to terms with it's pro-Nazi past, even rehabilitating former Nazi-allied paramilitaries, just because they hate Russians and Jews more than the German invaders (they probably liked them). Additionally, Latvia has a large Russian population who is denied many of the basic rights present in many Western countries, such as the jus soli citizenship. People who are second generation born in Latvia, if they only speak Russian and not Latvian, cannot be citizens. Based on my "spot-checking" I conclude that the list is not terribly reliable.

As for the one-child policy, yes, it's morally wrong, but Western countries don't have to deal with the logistics of feeding, clothing, and educating a population of 1.3 billion which continues to grow despite all the government's efforts, and most of whom are concentrated in the eastern slice of the country anyway.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 09:42 AM
Bremen: I stated that Western countries have the best human rights records FOR THEIR OWN POPULATION. I also stated that their records for people OUTSIDE their country and allied countries is pretty dismal. The Iraq war is an aggression the sort of which we hadn't seen globally since the days of Vietnam and the Russians in Afghanistan. And it has been a very dirty war, with children murdered left and right, white phosphorus being used, convoys that just run over people crossing the street (because they're afraid of IEDs), abuse and torture (Abu Ghraib), etc.

As for your "list" of countries, there's something in science called "spot-checking" - where you check a few random points to see how they match with the overall trend. In your top 20 are countries such as Slovakia, Czech Republic, and Latvia. While I have nothing against these people/countries and think they are very beautiful, they are hardly beacons of human rights. Slovakia and the Czech Republic have very sizable Roma/Gypsy populations who are denied even the most basic human rights. Their children are automatically sent to schools for the retarded, they can't get employed (even the ones who try to get out of the cycle of crime and poverty), and walls have been built around their communities (ghetto?) to "block out their noise." Latvia has not come to terms with it's pro-Nazi past, even rehabilitating former Nazi-allied paramilitaries, just because they hate Russians and Jews more than the German invaders (they probably liked them). Additionally, Latvia has a large Russian population who is denied many of the basic rights present in many Western countries, such as the jus soli citizenship. People who are second generation born in Latvia, if they only speak Russian and not Latvian, cannot be citizens. Based on my "spot-checking" I conclude that the list is not terribly reliable.

As for the one-child policy, yes, it's morally wrong, but Western countries don't have to deal with the logistics of feeding, clothing, and educating a population of 1.3 billion which continues to grow despite all the government's efforts, and most of whom are concentrated in the eastern slice of the country anyway.

I've already admited that other countries have bad records as well, although I wasn't aware of some of those facts you mentioned. Pretty scary...just think if those countries scored so highly, what must China be like? :eek::eek:

Maybe if China treated it's citizens as adults they could come up with a solution together instead of forcing women to have abortions, I think India has a similar population problem and has somehow managed to avoid this behaviour.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 09:42 AM
What's the eastern perception of freedom then?I don't claim to be an expert of the chinese culture, you just have to accept it that people from different regions think differently.

When I was in India a couple of years ago I was really pissed of with the Indian government for letting so many people live in what seemed to me like disgrace, only because to me it looked unacceptable that these people have actually come to terms with their fate and don't live by the principal of constantly striving for money and respect like in other countries (of course, not all indian people are like that, some are).
You can also blame the Indians for protecting their cows while letting thousands of people starve, but to them people are not necessarily more important than animals, which makes sense if you think about it.

My point is that judging other cultures by projecting your own beliefs on it (and yes sweetie, you're just as brainwashed as anyone) is rather pointless.

Jimnik
01-20-2008, 09:42 AM
China is a great country. Officially they may be communist but in practise capitalism is taking over. Beijing, Shanghai and Tianjin are cities of the future. They still have issues with extreme poverty further inland but it's surely only a matter of time before the wealth spreads to the countryside.

But there's no way this country is ready to host a Grand Slam. Not in 5 years, not in 50 years. They just don't have the interest, even now with the influence of foreign investment and globalisation. They have the Beijing Open, they've hosted the TMC, they will host the Olympics this year - they've had plenty of opportunities to get to know the sport. But there's still not enough fan interest and no young tennis talents breaking into the ATP.

The fact that the Asian Tennis Federation wants to break off from the ATP and create their own separate tour only illustrates their inability to compete with the West. They are blind to the fact that their economy and tennis success are not booming at the same rate.

Stensland
01-20-2008, 09:45 AM
I think India has a similar population problem and has somehow managed to avoid this behaviour.

...which is why china will emerge as a superpower while india is probably gonna implode, imo. they'll build states just as former yugoslavia has done.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 09:51 AM
I don't claim to be an expert of the chinese culture, you just have to accept it that people from different regions think differently.

My point is that judging other cultures by projecting your own beliefs on it (and yes sweetie, you're just as brainwashed as anyone) is rather pointless.

My "beliefs" of press freedoms, the right to vote, the right to move about one's own country without restriction, the right to peaceful protests, the right to decide what to do with one's own body, the freedom to practice religion, the right to have as many children as I want... etc etc, are all just western ideas with no relevance to chinese people?

But I guess I'm just brainwashed. Maybe I should move to China? I've heard their immigration is off the charts!! Who wouldn't want to live there??!!??

Aloimeh
01-20-2008, 09:53 AM
...which is why china will emerge as a superpower while india is probably gonna implode, imo. they'll build states just as former yugoslavia has done.

I don't think India will implode, but it's population growth is absolutely out of control. It will overtake China in the future. I visited the subcontinent and the poverty is quite awful. Not having visited China, I can't judge about that, but it sounds like the "communist" system (it's mostly capitalist now) at least allows people to be clothed and fed and have a placed to live, even if it may be very meager. Considering such a huge population and the difficulties of the Chinese writing system (much harder to memorize thousands of characters than a few dozen letters), I think that it is a HUGE accomplishment that China has a literacy rate of 90+%. Compare that to India's literacy of 61% with a much easier alphabetic system (to my knowledge all Indian languages use some kind of alphabet).

I expect that China and India will trace different paths, and the period of controlled economy/society by decades of communist rule may account for the difference.

bjurra
01-20-2008, 09:55 AM
^^ and even the above statistics was made according to the western perception of "freedom"

There is something seriously wrong with you.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 09:57 AM
My "beliefs" of press freedoms, the right to vote, the right to move about one's own country without restriction, the right to peaceful protests, the right to decide what to do with one's own body, the freedom to practice religion, the right to have as many children as I want... etc etc, are all just western ideas with no relevance to chinese people?

But I guess I'm just brainwashed. Maybe I should move to China? I've heard their immigration is off the charts!! Who wouldn't want to live there??!!??I am sure they have just as much criticism about your way of living, but they are well-mannered enough to keep it to themselves and mind their own business.

Stensland
01-20-2008, 09:57 AM
trust me, aloimeh, as soon as the hundreds of millions of young men in india get fed and don't starve anymore, they'll tear the country apart within a year or two with millions of casualties. people beg for food but they fight and kill for recognition and acceptance. check out the other countries with youth bulges over the centuries, every single one of them has gone down the same path. the "good thing" as of now is that india's youth is still starving on the streets, as harsh as it may sound.

Aloimeh
01-20-2008, 10:04 AM
trust me, aloimeh, as soon as the hundreds of millions of young men in india get fed and don't starve anymore, they'll tear the country apart within a year or two with millions of casualties. people beg for food but they fight and kill for recognition and acceptance. check out the other countries with youth bulges over the centuries, every single one of them has gone down the same path. the "good thing" as of now is that india's youth is still starving on the streets, as harsh as it may sound.

Yes, but one could also argue that utter destitution leads to revolution, as was the case with France and Russia. When you have nothing to lose, you revolt. Perhaps India's religion/caste system has led to a different attitude towards destitution/suffering.

I do think the fact that India has no common tongue and the fact that it has a large Muslim population makes it much less cohesive (and therefore susceptible to both internal and external forces pushing for collapse) than China (which has a common tongue and denounces religion or practices a watered down Buddhism-Taoism-Confucianism, which possesses little of the passionate ideology of Hinduism or the Abrahamic religions).

Bremen
01-20-2008, 10:06 AM
I am sure they have just as much criticism about your way of living, but they are well-mannered enough to keep it to themselves and mind their own business.

The chinese people on this board have not been very well-mannered...I've been accused of racism and told that I'm hated by chinese tennis fans who I've never met.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 10:08 AM
The chinese people on this board have not been very well-mannered...I've been accused of racism and told that I'm hated by chinese tennis fans who I've never met.That's because you're letting yourself criticize a country you've never been to (or have you?).

Stensland
01-20-2008, 10:11 AM
I do think the fact that India has no common tongue and the fact that it has a large Muslim population makes it much less cohesive (and therefore susceptible to both internal and external forces pushing for collapse) than China

yes, that's a major factor as well. i'm still not sure what the tipping point will be in india and what religious/political background the killing movements will have in the future, but i guess it's gonna be muslims vs. hindus with sikhs going down the drain alongside (they've been treated like shit throughout the years anyways). every revoltin movement needs a legitimation because people don't wanna be just "killers" or "murderers". they wanna kill for something, something that allows them to kill.

ok, this is ot.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 10:13 AM
That's because you're letting yourself criticize a country you've never been to (or have you?).

That's right, I've never been there. How does that fact not allow me to point out the various problems with China? If I'd been there, they'd still be the same.

Bremen
01-20-2008, 10:14 AM
There is something seriously wrong with you.

At least there's someone who agrees with me.

jenanun
01-20-2008, 10:23 AM
That's right, I've never been there. How does that fact not allow me to point out the various problems with China? If I'd been there, they'd still be the same.


well, you critise a country that you have never been or lived in, and i wonder if you actually KNOW anyone they have actually live there.... but you pretend you know a lot about this country and quoted from the source ...... wikipedia.... :rolleyes:

*Ljubica*
01-20-2008, 10:24 AM
My "beliefs" of press freedoms, the right to vote, the right to move about one's own country without restriction, the right to peaceful protests, the right to decide what to do with one's own body, the freedom to practice religion, the right to have as many children as I want... etc etc, are all just western ideas with no relevance to chinese people?

But I guess I'm just brainwashed. Maybe I should move to China? I've heard their immigration is off the charts!! Who wouldn't want to live there??!!??

Great post :)

aussie_fan
01-20-2008, 10:28 AM
These sorts of articles are really starting to annoy me. Even thinking of moving a Grand Slam showing that person has no respect for the sport and shouldn't be commenting on it in the first place.

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 10:34 AM
the right to have as many children as I want...
You can have as many babies as you want. Just be prepared to pay a big fine. If the government hadn't implemented this policy China's population would be out of control.

But I guess I'm just brainwashed. Maybe I should move to China? I've heard their immigration is off the charts!! Who wouldn't want to live there??!!??
I'm a non chinese living 6 months of the year in China. This country has a lot to offer the world. Tennis needs to hop on the China bandwagon before they are left behind.

Nathaliia
01-20-2008, 10:35 AM
Gosh people, are you the mad cows? It was just an attention seeking article, not even written by a Chinese! How on Earth can you be treating it so seriously?

And how do you show the Western tolerance and open-mindness being so aggressive towards another nation? Horrible hypocrites.

Stensland
01-20-2008, 10:37 AM
I'm a non chinese living 6 months of the year in China. This country has a lot to offer the world. Tennis needs to hop on the China bandwagon before they are left behind.

exactly. i'd rather welcome those guys in my tennis family than the freaks in the middle east with billions of dollars and dozens of fans.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 10:39 AM
exactly. i'd rather welcome those guys in my tennis family than the freaks in the middle east with billions of dollars and dozens of fans.:yeah:

Stensland
01-20-2008, 10:41 AM
yeah i can understand why you applaud me for that. ;)

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 10:42 AM
yeah i can understand why you applaud me for that. ;)No comment ;)

shirleysafin
01-20-2008, 10:43 AM
why some people always want to put pure sporting issues into political ones, and ridiculous thing is do you really know what China is, have you been to China? As a tennis fan, you really think of AO would move to China, if the answer yes, you are so lack of confidence. China has many problems, in fact, every country has, but China is improving , is developing, of course in the field of tennis, but we all know it's a long way to get the position of tennis in the world.

alexinmusic
01-20-2008, 11:01 AM
The chinese people on this board have not been very well-mannered...I've been accused of racism and told that I'm hated by chinese tennis fans who I've never met.

hey, I'm comming.
they just dislike you.(sorry, I made a mistake) since they've known your post and had a discussion of it.

wally1
01-20-2008, 11:25 AM
The aussies sort of leave themselves open to this sort of speculation (if not the reality of anything happening), with this "Grand Slam of the Asia/Pacific" marketing bullshit. What's wrong with just being the Australian Open? Because if you're the grand slam of the whole asia/pacific, then why should the tournament just be played in Australia? Why not rotate between Australia, China, Japan, India etc.

Drunken
01-20-2008, 11:32 AM
Don't think the Australian Open should be moved anywhere, but it will be inevitable for the ATP to look for development opportunities in China with them becoming the economic superpower of the 21st century. Although a grand slam without historical precedent lacks stature and credibility. Dunno if grand slam tournaments will be even considered the premier events by then, or if the masters series will grow in prestige and rival the big four. Hope that made sense.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 12:10 PM
Okay, so how far do you want to take this argument? If China's politics makes the country undeserving of a slam, then what about the US for engaging in an illegal war and use of torture? Maybe Wimbledon shouldn't be in England because of the UK's support for the Iraq War; maybe France doesn't deserve Roland Garros due to its long history of imperialism/colonialism; maybe Australia doesn't deserve their slam due to the way they've screwed over the indigenous population and their poor environmental record. Maybe Russia doesn't deserve any tennis tournaments for the heavy-handed way they actively discourage neighboring nations from forming closer ties with the EU.

Sorry, but this tired argument comes up every time the Dubai tournament rolls around and it's a pointless argument. Sure, it would be nice if all the governments of countries that hosted tennis tournaments were perfect in every possible way, but it's not going to happen, and tennis's future, for better or for worse, is going to be shaped more by money than by politics.

Am I citing communism? No, I'm citing human progress here. Read: Myanmar etc. The bolded, however, I agree with wholeheartedly. About the US? I couldn't give two shits about the US of A. We can't even get Bushy out of office if we tried. The fact of the matter is that our Constitution has basically gone out the window. Your argument, however, is extremely flawed. Citing a few things here and there does not equate the wholes. I'm going to assume that you're Chinese...whenever I say something about the Chinese gov't, the Chinese people seem to think that it's directed at them.

Where have you been for the last 10'000 years of human civilization?
China will grow the sport.

China can't even grow it's economy. Let's see what happens when the standard of living rises. The fact that China has to exaggerate its economy by 40% is a big hint. You can't grow genetics. You can keep talking about your major cities, but look beyond that. Listen to the people...

good post.

its alarming to see the ignorance of some of the posters here. Every country has its share of "ugly history".

citing communism etc as valid arguments as to why China shouldn't host international events is :retard:

at the end of the day, tennis is about money and economics. If China can fill the seats and pay the premiums, then they should also have the right to host some important tournaments (not saying they should host GS).

the grand slams are not going to remain in the same four countries forever. at some pt things will change and if the ITF decides it values money over history, then so be it.

Again, I'm citing communism here? Please be objective, don't straw man me. Some of you are taking this way far--you're taking it personally whereas I'm accusing your government. I like Chinese people, okay? Relax, everybody. Breathe.

so you can decide who are devoted more to world peace? and you can decide who are deserved the Olympics? :rolleyes: and about the Taiwan issue, it's our nation issue, we don't wanna bother you to care. And,if someday we have a GS, don't forget to eat your words. Finally,if you are mature enough you should know that we can put up with your critics about Chinese goverment but not our nation and our people, and please make your expression clear.

Read above

Lol, that kind of proves my point...



Mao was a chinese man from humble origins who most people would say changed they way his country was run, so yeah, it is possible.

That wikipedia article has a lot of verifiable sources backing it up, I wouldn't dismiss it so easily. Anyway, the world knows China has a horrible human rights record, it doesn't matter what I say.

I have nothing against Chinese people, but their government is extremely scary and needs to be deposed.

Yes

This thread has gotten ridiculous. Western countries preaching to anyone else about human rights is ridiculous. All countries have ugly histories. Including the US, UK, Australia, and France. Geez.



Well yeah, if you put it that way we can look at history and see that Britain basically created the concentration camp, the US was a proponent of slavery, etc. Let's look at the present: a promise to clean up the environment when they were given the Olympics but nothing has happened?

Hell hath no fury like a chink scorned.

What...the...fuck?

Are you sure you are not joking?
South Korea? Japan?
Do you know that China has dozens of populations and territory of these twe country? Are you sure we can be better in their ways?
I'm in Beijing and there is Korea people everywhere and in China you can see Korea TV stars any time. They immigrate to China and they try to expand their career in China. And even worse, they stole our culture and make their own.... OK I'm not to offend anyone from South Korea and just want to say China is not a place of Evil as some people think. :rolleyes:

They go to China because that is where, at the moment, the money is. Not because they love China, not because they love your government, it's the money.

I believe China is undeserving of a slam because they rank with the lowest third world countries in many respects. Help the people first.

supertommyhaas
01-20-2008, 12:25 PM
Fuck off China...

You have no tennis history or contribution to the game... you don't deserve a grand slam.

exactly what i was going to say

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 12:57 PM
China can't even grow it's economy. Let's see what happens when the standard of living rises. The fact that China has to exaggerate its economy by 40% is a big hint. You can't grow genetics. You can keep talking about your major cities, but look beyond that. Listen to the people...
Trixtah, I'm glad you took the time to quote so many people but none of it made any sense. China's economy has experienced 10% GDP growth for over ten years with no sign of slowing down. You can't shit around with figures like that.

The smaller cities will reap the benefits of the good growth. It's called the trickle down effect. Guangzhou is a big city made of migrant workers from rural towns. They come here to work and send money home. Magic!

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:13 PM
Trixtah, I'm glad you took the time to quote so many people but none of it made any sense. China's economy has experienced 10% GDP growth for over ten years with no sign of slowing down. You can't shit around with figures like that.

The smaller cities will reap the benefits of the good growth. It's called the trickle down effect. Guangzhou is a big city made of migrant workers from rural towns. They come here to work and send money home. Magic!

What? Look at the most recent correction figures by the World Bank. What I said about China's economy being overstated by about 40% is correct. Next, your last statement simply demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge on the subject of China. PoliSci 101 on foreign countries plz.

10 trillion dollar economy that is about to catch up with the USA? No, try 6 trillion, less than half. Did you stop to think about PPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity)? GDP, away!

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 01:18 PM
What? Look at the most recent correction figures by the World Bank. What I said about China's economy being overstated by about 40% is correct. Next, your last statement simply demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge on the subject of China. PoliSci 101 on foreign countries plz. 10 trillion dollar economy that is about to catch up with the USA? No, try 6 trillion, less than half.Political 'Science' ( :tape: ), like all social 'sciences', is nothing but load of :bs:

If that what gives you the confidence to argue with someone who actually spend 6 months every year there then that's really a sad joke.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:20 PM
Political 'Science' ( :tape: ), like all social 'sciences', is nothing but load of :bs:

If that what gives you the confidence to argue with someone who actually spend 6 months every year there then that's really a sad joke.

What's an even bigger joke is that you spend six months there but you know less than I do about the economy. Try Economics (101). PoliSci explains his "trickle" argument. Economics debunks his economy argument. I don't see where you get off trying to straw man my arguments. By your argument, I wouldn't be able to argue with a 2 year old who spends his entire year there? Funny guy, you are.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 01:22 PM
What's an even bigger joke is that you spend six months there but you know less than I do about the economy. Try PoliSci with Economics (101)I'm not the one spending there time, and if you believe studying in your US class gives you any idea about the dynamics of a country without experiencing it first hand then there's no hope for you.

Go study something real.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:24 PM
I'm not the one spending there time, and if you believe studying in your US class gives you any idea about the dynamics of a country without experiencing it first hand then there's no hope for you.

Go study something real.

I'm in medical school with a major in Biology and a double minor in Polisci and Economics. You, however, are just a poser with no concrete argument. Yes I've been to China, like I said. Something real? What are you, a 14 year old who watched the Matrix one too many times? So like I said, by your argument, someone that spends more time in China automatically knows more about the country than another? Everyone? Really? Everyone?

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 01:25 PM
I'm in medical school with a major in Biology and a double minor in Polisci and Economics. You, however, are just a poser. Yes I've been to China, like I said. Something real? What are you, a 14 year old who watched the Matrix one too many times?I'd still take SmankYou's word over yours, and yes, biology is closer to something real than PoliSci, the latter is utter rubbish.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:29 PM
I'd still take SmankYou's word over yours, and yes, biology is closer to something real than PoliSci, the latter is utter rubbish.

Fine with me, I didn't say not to take his side over mine. Look at things objectively please, not just because I'm ad homming you.

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 01:29 PM
Next, your last statement simply demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge on the subject of China. PoliSci 101 on foreign countries plz.
You're right, Obi Wan. Teach me more about polisci101. I only live in the country. Quite literally seeing the changes on a monthly basis.

10 trillion dollar economy that is about to catch up with the USA? No, try 6 trillion, less than half. Did you stop to think about PPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity)? GDP, away![/QUOTE]
Stop dangling your fancy wiki in my face. It's blocked in this country. Along with blogspot, livejournal, porn and other fun stuff. My understanding of PPP is that 6 trillion dollars will buy you a shit load more in China than 10 trillion could buy you in the US.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=china+gdp+growth

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:31 PM
You're right, Obi Wan. Teach me more about polisci101. I only live in the country. Quite literally seeing the changes on a monthly basis.

10 trillion dollar economy that is about to catch up with the USA? No, try 6 trillion, less than half. Did you stop to think about PPP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity)? GDP, away!
Stop dangling your fancy wiki in my face. It's blocked in this country. Along with blogspot, livejournal, porn and other fun stuff. My understanding of PPP is that 6 trillion dollars will buy you a shit load more in China than 10 trillion could buy you in the US.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=china+gdp+growth

Your google-fu is weak, young idiot. You're going to insult my use of wikipedia and link me to a google search?

How about this:

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/NEWS/0,,date:2007-12-18~menuPK:34461~pagePK:34392~piPK:64256810~theSite PK:4607,00.html#Story2

You don't "see" shit living in a major city. I have a close friend that owns factories in the rural areas that I have personally visited. I think that I "see" more than you do. Quality over quantity.

Edit: Your understanding of PPP is skewed. It's a correction not pure purchasing power. Wtf? I'm not even going to bother arguing with you anymore. Now I know you have nothing of substance to bring to the table.

My understanding of PPP is that 6 trillion dollars will buy you a shit load more in China than 10 trillion could buy you in the US.
LOL wrong. PPP, like I said.
My understanding of PPP is that 6 trillion dollars will buy you a shit load more in China than 10 trillion could buy you in the US.
LOL
My understanding of PPP is that 6 trillion dollars will buy you a shit load more in China than 10 trillion could buy you in the US.
LOL

fuck, for a minute there I thought I was arguing with someone serious. Your arguments on China will now be ignored.

Stensland
01-20-2008, 01:42 PM
so what exacatly is you point, trixtah? i'm a little puzzled here, to be honest. you wanna bash china because of its growth (or lack thereof)? because they don't care about their citizens? tennis? economy? environment? human rights?

this is not meant in any offensive way, i just don't get what you're onto there, sorry.

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 01:43 PM
You don't "see" shit living in a major city. I have a close friend that owns factories in the rural areas that I have personally visited. I think that I "see" more than you do. Quality over quantity.
lolarious. you dont know what i do for a living.

my internet is slow. google is the best i could do.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:44 PM
so what exacatly is you point, trixtah? i'm a little puzzled here, to be honest. you wanna bash china because of its growth (or lack thereof)? because they don't care about their citizens? tennis? economy? environment? human rights?

this is not meant in any offensive way, i just don't get what you're onto there, sorry.

I don't know how this argument degenerated in this manner but someone brought economics into the equation and cited the GDP of China which I had to take upon myself to refute. Yeah, you're right. It really has no meaning in the argument :] Some people in this thread are closing their eyes and refuse to look at things objectively.

lolarious. you dont know what i do for a living.

my internet is slow. google is the best i could do.

You're 22 and you live in China for six months out of the year. I couldn't give two shits about what you do for a living when you can't refute anything that I've stated except with an incorrect assertion that proves your lack of knowledge in Economics.

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 01:46 PM
so what exacatly is you point, trixtah? i'm a little puzzled here, to be honest. you wanna bash china because of its growth (or lack thereof)? because they don't care about their citizens? tennis? economy? environment? human rights?

this is not meant in any offensive way, i just don't get what you're onto there, sorry.He/she's just one of those who can't accept it that countries should mind their own business (as if people in the US aren't dying because they can't afford to buy medical insurance, but that, of course, is social justice) and let others take care of their own.

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 01:47 PM
... his "trickle" argument. ... his economy argument.
her, her, HER! I'm female. Tits and all.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:48 PM
What's an even bigger joke is that you spend six months there but you know less than I do about the economy. Try Economics (101). PoliSci explains her "trickle" argument. Economics debunks her economy argument. I don't see where you get off trying to straw man my arguments. By your argument, I wouldn't be able to argue with a 2 year old who spends his entire year there? Funny guy, you are.

okay okay, fixed

Stensland
01-20-2008, 01:48 PM
ok, so what is your point then? :confused:

DhammaTiger
01-20-2008, 01:48 PM
This article is so xenophobic and anti- Chinese. First of all, there is a grand slam committee, so how can the Chinese get the tournament without the Aus Federation relinquishing it. As far as I know, the ITF and GS committe run the grand slams.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:49 PM
ok, so what is your point then? :confused:

The point was to refute argument by argument (line by line) as part of the whole instead of arguing only where it's convenient, as it should be.

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 01:51 PM
You're 22 and you live in China for six months out of the year. I couldn't give two shits about what you do for a living when you can't refute anything that I've stated except with an incorrect assertion that proves your lack of knowledge in Economics.
edit: private.

Life experience, honey. It's more than a textbook at uni could ever teach you.

Langers
01-20-2008, 01:52 PM
Pat Cash is an idiot, enough said.

The facilities can easily be upgraded and probably will be by 2010. I'm sick of hearing about these "incidents", a day or two after the incidents with the Greeks they broke the all time Slam record for attendance. Looks like it really hurt the Slam Cash you utter fool.

The AO is a great Slam with a great atmosphere. You're always going to get a few idiots, just as Cash is.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 01:52 PM
I didn't want to go into this... but when you make your first million at 20 yrs of age you have no one to thank but china, its people, and its brilliant fucking economy.

Life experience, honey. It's more than a textbook at uni could ever teach you.

But my first million won't be from China. I plan to move to Taiwan for practice after medschool :] (unless reunification, or shall I say, unification :p)

My family's money doesn't come from China either :] Am I spoiled? Probably. You're not the only millionaire. You're 100% right in your last statement. It's economy is perfect for printing your own money, brilliant in that regard. For the general populace, though, it's a failure thanks to allocation problems. I hope at least we can agree on this :]

Rogiman
01-20-2008, 01:55 PM
I didn't want to go into this... but when you make your first million at 20 yrs of age you have no one to thank but china, its people, and its brilliant fucking economy.

Life experience, honey. It's more than a textbook at uni could ever teach you.:haha: But of course Economy101 and its fabulous "realistic" contents is a more reliable source :haha: :retard:

Smankyou
01-20-2008, 02:02 PM
But my first million won't be from China. I plan to move to Taiwan for practice after medschool :] (unless reunification, or shall I say, unification :p)
And all the best to you. I'm good friends with a Taiwanese couple that come to China often and stay in my hotel. They're filthy rich. I like them because they actually close their mouths while eating. Quite rare around these parts.

My family's money doesn't come from China either :] Am I spoiled?
No, you're not. Chances are your family worked hard for that money.

trixtah
01-20-2008, 02:14 PM
And all the best to you. I'm good friends with a Taiwanese couple that come to China often and stay in my hotel. They're filthy rich. I like them because they actually close their mouths while eating. Quite rare around these parts.


No, you're not. Chances are your family worked hard for that money.

Yeah, I'm a bit late catching the millionaire train simply because I'm aspiring after what I love to do. My family is very well off thanks to hard hard work and a bit of opportunistic luck. If you operate in Beijing, chances are I've stayed in your hotel :]

SAtennis
01-20-2008, 02:39 PM
Are you sure you are not joking?
South Korea? Japan?
Do you know that China has dozens of populations and territory of these twe country? Are you sure we can be better in their ways?
I'm in Beijing and there is Korea people everywhere and in China you can see Korea TV stars any time. They immigrate to China and they try to expand their career in China. And even worse, they stole our culture and make their own.... OK I'm not to offend anyone from South Korea and just want to say China is not a place of Evil as some people think. :rolleyes:

Hey, kisses.
Beofre criticizing others for bashing your country unfairly, think about yourself bashing another country which has nothing to do with this issue. 'stole our culture???" Is this the Chinese way of defending yourself over all the criticizm? You're just as small-minded as the people here who hypocritically attack your country's policy.

danton
01-20-2008, 04:10 PM
Bloody hell! I post an article then come back the next day and it has over 10 pages!!!! - Not much about tennis though from what i can see; fair enough given it's Pat Cash who wrote the article. :-)

peteroger
01-20-2008, 07:09 PM
What is your point?

I myself always hate people who mix politics with sports. Pat Cash wrote this article and no Chinese media has even reported yet. I personally China is not ready to host Grand Slam in the next ten, fifteen years, but as a tennis fan, who wouldn't want to see a Grand Slam in your home country?

For many politician/tennis fans here, if you post your comments here not as a tennis fan or as a tennis fan but for your own so-called patriotic purposes, Leave us alone and try some other forums where it fits.

What you said might change a few people's view over China, but what is there is there and what's gonna happen is gonna happen. We have no right to say right or wrong to history, even if you are part of it.

Sincerely hope this is a forum exclusively for discussion over tennis.

Verd
01-20-2008, 08:31 PM
Am I citing communism? No, I'm citing human progress here. Read: Myanmar etc. The bolded, however, I agree with wholeheartedly. About the US? I couldn't give two shits about the US of A. We can't even get Bushy out of office if we tried. The fact of the matter is that our Constitution has basically gone out the window. Your argument, however, is extremely flawed. Citing a few things here and there does not equate the wholes. I'm going to assume that you're Chinese...whenever I say something about the Chinese gov't, the Chinese people seem to think that it's directed at them.

Well, you've assumed wrong; I'm a Californian with Korean heritage. And for the record I would never want to live or work in China under its current government; I wasn't defending their practices in the slightest. But do all the flaws you bring up about the country preclude it from holding tennis tournaments? Sorry, but no. That was the original point (at least, it was my original point) and I don't have to be Chinese to make it. It's amazing to see how much bashing has gone in this thread, in both directions.

Gosh people, are you the mad cows? It was just an attention seeking article, not even written by a Chinese! How on Earth can you be treating it so seriously?

And how do you show the Western tolerance and open-mindness being so aggressive towards another nation? Horrible hypocrites.

:yeah:

Bloody hell! I post an article then come back the next day and it has over 10 pages!!!! - Not much about tennis though from what i can see; fair enough given it's Pat Cash who wrote the article. :-)

:haha::haha:

njnetswill
01-20-2008, 08:36 PM
Can we move this to non-tennis?

I'd just like to add that some of you should visit China before attacking the people as if they are the same as the elite who rule the government. :wavey:

scoobs
01-20-2008, 08:39 PM
I don't know what they teach in schools today but one thing that seems to be missing from a lot of curricula:

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and remove all doubt."

Black Adam
01-20-2008, 10:11 PM
I can think of a million reasons that China shouldn't have a GS. It's not about being anti-progression but history is something they can't buy. I know Australia isn't all roses but they have the history and their event always produces quality matches. They have improved the surface color and pace and the Tourney will only get better. Keep it to 4 slams and it will be less awkward.
Call me paranoïd but China is a big problem waiting to happen.
Maybe if China treated it's citizens as adults they could come up with a solution together instead of forcing women to have abortions, I think India has a similar population problem and has somehow managed to avoid this behaviour.Overpopulation will sooner or later lead to the question of territory. Will they conquer more other people's lands or eliminate their excess people?? Either way nothing pretty is going to happen.

Do you know that come 2020 40 million Chinese men won't have women? Not because they aren't good with women but simply because there won't be any women available. This is because of some people's preference to have a boy instead of a girl since the 1 child rule only allow one shot at having a boy to carry the Family name. How will they resolve this? Something gruesome waiting to happen imo :o

And their recent involvement in Africa. This divisive regime wants to turn Africa away from the west right into its Den.Is China right about Africa?

This week an official Chinese newspaper The People's Daily said that the current turmoil in Kenya can be blamed on a Western-style democracy that is not suited to Africa. http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=4072&edition=2&ttl=20080120221455

They criticise imperialism but yet that's what they are doing everywhere. Divide and rule or flood them with Made in China. The West should distance itself from China while they still can because a future where China is the top dog will be worse than the USA's current run as superpower.

FitDave
01-20-2008, 10:20 PM
All mugs, first you morons bring up a decent tennis player and we'll talk about it. Money isn't everything

Black Adam
01-20-2008, 10:26 PM
No no no no.
Bring up players who challenge for number 1 and then you might make Shanghai a TMS.

Lee
01-20-2008, 11:37 PM
As a Chinese growing up in a British Colony under the shadow of the Chinese Communist Government, then lived 14 years in Canada and another 5 years in USA, the only response I have to this thread is:

WHAT THE F***!!!! :rolls: :haha: :rolls: :haha:

megadeth
01-20-2008, 11:52 PM
i believe you've got to have a good fuckin' history of tennis first and produce a series of legends before you can host a slam. :p

their time in hosting tennis events are almost done though... the TMC is transferring to london in 2009

Luna
01-21-2008, 01:45 AM
The Chinese don't even have ambitions. Anyone who saw the Beijing Open last year can see that. Their players are crap and the fans are even worse, I remember the SF Lee-Gonzalez the only spectators were a few Chileans and Koreans.

We'll see what happens at the Olympics this year but again I expect the vast majority of people turning up to be foreign. It's absolutely no wonder that the TMC is moving after this year.


Unfortunately to tell you,I were in that Lee-Gonzalez match.How could we Chinese support one of them like Chilean or Korean:confused:.We were in silence do not stand for we were not there...

Luna
01-21-2008, 01:48 AM
What is your point?

I myself always hate people who mix politics with sports. Pat Cash wrote this article and no Chinese media has even reported yet. I personally China is not ready to host Grand Slam in the next ten, fifteen years, but as a tennis fan, who wouldn't want to see a Grand Slam in your home country?

For many politician/tennis fans here, if you post your comments here not as a tennis fan or as a tennis fan but for your own so-called patriotic purposes, Leave us alone and try some other forums where it fits.

What you said might change a few people's view over China, but what is there is there and what's gonna happen is gonna happen. We have no right to say right or wrong to history, even if you are part of it.

Sincerely hope this is a forum exclusively for discussion over tennis.


跟他们争没必要
歧视是根深蒂固的,包括其实自己本身也咋样的
我们没法阻止他们,所以也歧视吧:p或者就无视

Rae777
01-21-2008, 01:56 AM
Just an excuse for Pat Cash to get his name in the paper.

alexinmusic
01-21-2008, 02:26 AM
Yeah, I'm a bit late catching the millionaire train simply because I'm aspiring after what I love to do. My family is very well off thanks to hard hard work and a bit of opportunistic luck. If you operate in Beijing, chances are I've stayed in your hotel :]


whaterver you are, taiwanese or chinese, just something true to tell you.
many people in china's major city have had a much better quality life than people in taiwan.
That is true,and I get this because I'm a student of PKU, and last year participating Taiwan Association. There I met so many students from Taiwan, talk about some socail and political issues. To my surprise, most students expressed their worry about taiwan not china mainland and told me that i will be much better to them if they can learn sth about china's political and massmedia system.However, they are regretful that some hospitality led by taiwan government is misleading.
I'm so sure that you cannot believe that, because you have never lived in china for even a short period.
However, you should think about taiwan's low economical development in recent years. And why more taiwan people come into china mainland than reverse, not only for the money. it's an open atmosphere of society.
you may mock at what I say, however, it's exactly from a student of Taiwan University who exchanges to PKU.

switz
01-21-2008, 06:30 AM
This will not happen in the near future (ie the next 10-20 years). Cash does this around every slam. He makes controversial statements because that's the only way he can get attention.

The Masters Cup is moving to London anyway.

mediter
01-22-2008, 10:50 AM
Cash knows what he is talking about because he understands where the winds are blowing in the real world today.

Its not about players,short term money or blah blah. Its about the biggest potential market(s) for all sports bodies ! The potential audience and their numbers cannot be matched elsewhere when they have two billion out of six billion people. let's say the middle class numbers around 200 million. That's larger than other countries bar US! how can such huge markets be ignored in areas of economics or sports or politics?

To tap the potential of these huge markets, there is a good chance they may get GS down the line. No amount of facilites or legends at the AO will help.

kmciad
01-23-2008, 12:45 AM
whaterver you are, taiwanese or chinese, just something true to tell you.
many people in china's major city have had a much better quality life than people in taiwan.
That is true,and I get this because I'm a student of PKU, and last year participating Taiwan Association. There I met so many students from Taiwan, talk about some socail and political issues. To my surprise, most students expressed their worry about taiwan not china mainland and told me that i will be much better to them if they can learn sth about china's political and massmedia system.However, they are regretful that some hospitality led by taiwan government is misleading.
I'm so sure that you cannot believe that, because you have never lived in china for even a short period.
However, you should think about taiwan's low economical development in recent years. And why more taiwan people come into china mainland than reverse, not only for the money. it's an open atmosphere of society.
you may mock at what I say, however, it's exactly from a student of Taiwan University who exchanges to PKU.

Whatever. Don't presume to speak for us Taiwanese people, we're nothing like you worthless Chinese beggars. At least in our country we haver freedom to do and say and vote whatever we want, unlike you...if you love your government so much, go stand in Tianmen square and shout "I love falun gong", and we'll see what happens to you...that's your "open society"'s awesome quality of life.

We don't want anything to do with you, and we like it that way.

mediter
01-23-2008, 05:37 AM
We don't want anything to do with you, and we like it that way.

so you are not chinese? what was taiwan doing when they held the china UN seat till 1971?

anyway i think sabre rattling is cowardly. it would be exciting to see a real war. There has not been one in ages.

acharlesmobile
01-23-2008, 08:35 AM
i guess im taiwanese, but visiting both countries, prosperity is still a very regional thing. There are poor places in both countries as well as much more wealth among the cities. Tennis is one of those sports that chinese/taiwanese people can actually do well in (barring Yao Ming and the other guy in the NBA and other exceptions). That and golf, badminton, and ping pong. China knows that, and it believes that with the right programs, it can surely find someone in its billion+ that can compete at the highest level.

As for China's society being more "open" than taiwan's? Fat chance. Economically open now that the tax system is messed up. Just look at my uncle who's rolling in china dollas because of huge loopholes in chinese laws.

Lets not talk about restrictions until you see singapore.... no chewing gum! But then they're one of the nicest places to be.

mandynyuna
01-23-2008, 08:52 AM
I highly doubt that China would get a grand slam anytime soon. Maybe in about 10 years when they become more advanced and living conditions there improve, especially in the non-city areas.

I agree with the posters above that Singapore is probably the most 'restricted' country. Can't do this and that. However, it is an effective way of getting the country to grow economically. It gives the impression that Singapore is efficient and well-led.

That being said, China is slowly opening up to the Western world, but I would say only in the main cities like Beijing and Shanghai. Otherwise, the people elsewhere don't even care much about the Olympics being held in their homeland this year. So that's why China won't get their tennis slam...yet. How did this conversation switch to Taiwan and politics anyway?

mediter
01-23-2008, 10:09 AM
what noncity areas? how is it relevant for a tennis GS?

The ATP or other sports bodies don't care about the overall politics or socio economic situation except the factors related to staging a tournament. they care about a large audience(on tv and at the courts), a large market,TV rights,sponsorship,advertising.

Huge Revenues on a sustained basis and smooth tournaments.that's all they want.

if people in a town or village do not have the purchasing power, they are no going get tournaments.if they watch it on a tv set or buy sports related goods, that's good enough.

Chileno
01-23-2008, 12:11 PM
First off, they don't deserve their veto power in the UN when all they do is abuse it in a self serving manner...

You could say the same thing about the rest of the world super powers. The veto should not exist. Period.

Hokit
01-23-2008, 02:02 PM
Instead of having constructive debates, the thread's been flooded with rude comments.

Really, how many of you have enough balls to say the things you've posted outside of your computer screen?

Seems like message boards are there for closet racists to vent their spleen.

Anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised IF Chinese officials were looking at the possibility of hosting a Chinese GS. But there are plenty of issues to overcome for that to happen (so why the hysteria?!) Just looking at the market potential isn't enough. China needs to demonstrate a strong enough tennis following to attract the kind of crowds and attention that the other Slams normally command. It's a huge investment and sponsors need some sort of guarantee to see a return. Going by recent trends though, I'd expect China to build a really compelling case for itself in the near future.

Smankyou
01-23-2008, 02:17 PM
and the other guy in the NBA
Yi Jianlian is a God in Guangdong province. I should know, I get the hear about him every day.

thrust
01-23-2008, 02:20 PM
You could say the same thing about the rest of the world super powers. The veto should not exist. Period.

Correct!!

jazar
01-23-2008, 03:17 PM
it would be a very sad day if china bought a grand slam. particularly when they have no players who are really famous in the rest of the world

Cindy19
01-27-2008, 12:34 PM
Kolya, are you drunk?!

Whats the matter with you guys? acting like kids. shame for you.

TMJordan
01-27-2008, 12:39 PM
I think I would commit suicide if the Australian Open moved to China, ala FedFan_2007.

juvvi
01-27-2008, 01:34 PM
What's wrong with Chinese organizing the GrandSlams? If they can increase the money on offer and improve tennis markets, they should be allowed to do so. The world's changing, and everybody's better get used to it. Using unrelevant things like History to maintain domination on tennis is so stupid, really.

I am not chinese.

Tankman
01-27-2008, 01:39 PM
While we're still smashing worldwide attendance records, there's no way they can move the Open :) Besides moving the event to China wouldn't really make a difference to global TV audiences as China is only 3 hours behind us, so there goes that argument.

If the ATP/WTA was even thinking about doing such a thing, China would still need:

(a) plenty of men's and women's players in the top 100 and top 20. The Grand Slams were awarded initially to the 4 best tennis nations in the world. So that has to be a factor- if not they're just retarded and money-hungry :(

(b) big public support and attendances. We've hit 600k :p No way you could hope to pull those numbers in China at the moment- I really don't think the level of support or interest in the game in China is anywhere near Australia's.

And those are just the rational arguments. Obviously I'm biased so I could pull many more reasons why the Open should not go to China. Hardly constructive though.

In any case the big 1000 tournament is being held in Shanghai from 2009 onwards. Until that pulls huge crowds, no one should even be thinking about a move :armed: :p

As for Pat Cash: :retard:

aussie_fan
01-27-2008, 01:44 PM
What's wrong with Chinese organizing the GrandSlams? If they can increase the money on offer and improve tennis markets, they should be allowed to do so. The world's changing, and everybody's better get used to it. Using unrelevant things like History to maintain domination on tennis is so stupid, really.

I am not chinese.

Just saying history and tradition is unrevelant just proves you don't care about tennis. :rolleyes:

Tankman
01-27-2008, 01:50 PM
What's wrong with Chinese organizing the GrandSlams? If they can increase the money on offer and improve tennis markets, they should be allowed to do so. The world's changing, and everybody's better get used to it. Using unrelevant things like History to maintain domination on tennis is so stupid, really.

I am not chinese.

Money's a stupid reason. And they can't improve tennis markets until tennis gets a following through grassroots programs and smaller tourneys.

And why exactly is history so irrelevant all of a sudden?

Dzordzzz!
01-27-2008, 02:05 PM
WE ARE DOOMED!DOOMED I SAY YOU!!!The chinese are coming,run! for yor lives:bolt::bolt::bolt:

Sean.J.S.
01-27-2008, 02:07 PM
China? :spit: Haven't they already had their five minutes of fame holding the Tennis Masters Cup for a couple of years? :confused: :rolleyes:

It's not moving from Melbourne and it better not. ;) :cool: :mad:

Cindy19
01-27-2008, 03:04 PM
WE ARE DOOMED!DOOMED I SAY YOU!!!The chinese are coming,run! for yor lives:bolt::bolt::bolt:

Go and find your papa.

What's wrong with Chinese organizing the GrandSlams? If they can increase the money on offer and improve tennis markets, they should be allowed to do so. The world's changing, and everybody's better get used to it. Using unrelevant things like History to maintain domination on tennis is so stupid, really.

I am not chinese.

Thanks for understanding.

Well, in my opinion, yep We dont deserve a GS. China is an old country but our history of tennis is still young. We still have a long road to learn. But, I just couldnt believe why you are turning this case into politics?! there is no relation.

I am sure, People here KNOW, from 2005-2008, Shanghai showed that Chinese people can make it as good as western people.

I am Chinese, Dont blame us. We did nothing wrong.

You guys are young, but it doesnt mean you can being offensive.

danton
01-27-2008, 03:21 PM
It's worth mentioning again that this was written by PAT CASH. Of course it's something to consider but when it's written by Cash it definately isn't worth taking seriously, at least....not yet.

I will be watching the news avidly during the Olympics to see how China does - I can still vividly remember at school watching Tiananmen Square. No doubt China has come a hell of a long way since then.

kiwi10is
01-27-2008, 03:30 PM
You need more for a Grand Slam than just money and a good organisation. The special thing about the four Grand Slams is their tradition. If they create a new one with same prizemoney and same ranking points it could still never be compared to the other Grand Slams with 100 year old history. Even the Masters Cup couldn't come close to a Grand Slam. Most players would play Wimbledon without getting paid just to put their name into the history book.

Cindy19
01-27-2008, 03:34 PM
It's worth mentioning again that this was written by PAT CASH. Of course it's something to consider but when it's written by Cash it definately isn't worth taking seriously, at least....not yet.

I will be watching the news avidly during the Olympics to see how China does - I can still vividly remember at school watching Tiananmen Square. No doubt China has come a hell of a long way since then.

Thats not your fault, and also Pet's. This belongs to those kids here.:o

juvvi
01-27-2008, 08:50 PM
Money's a stupid reason. And they can't improve tennis markets until tennis gets a following through grassroots programs and smaller tourneys.

And why exactly is history so irrelevant all of a sudden?

When an entrepreneur has the political and the financial clout to organize a grand slam in china, you will know how history is irrelevant. Everybody can shout on top of their lungs about tradition and History but they won't be enough to stop the movement. History is always an excuse to maintain domination.

By the way I care very much about tennis. But you need to stop pretending that tennis is an exclusive sport. In a fairer free market system, the highest bidder can have the grandslam, but then we all know what a farce the american free markets are.

scoobs
01-27-2008, 08:58 PM
It's worth noting that if this WAS a bit of a plant to get the Australian govt to cough up money to spend on the facilities, then it worked, if what the court announcer said in the final speeches is true - something about the Aussie Premier promising investment.

kiwi10is
01-27-2008, 09:02 PM
maybe they will create a new Grand Slam in China but if you ask any player if he prefers to win a new Grand Slam or Wimbledon what do you think he will answer??? They can organize whatever they want but in the end it is up to the players to put life into it... the Masters Cup is big but it is nothing compared to Wimbledon and it would be the same for a new Grand Slam

juvvi
01-27-2008, 09:18 PM
It's worth noting that if this WAS a bit of a plant to get the Australian govt to cough up money to spend on the facilities, then it worked, if what the court announcer said in the final speeches is true - something about the Aussie Premier promising investment.

yeah, and we accuse China of being a communist country. :)

juvvi
01-27-2008, 09:59 PM
yes, that's a major factor as well. i'm still not sure what the tipping point will be in india and what religious/political background the killing movements will have in the future, but i guess it's gonna be muslims vs. hindus with sikhs going down the drain alongside (they've been treated like shit throughout the years anyways). every revoltin movement needs a legitimation because people don't wanna be just "killers" or "murderers". they wanna kill for something, something that allows them to kill.

ok, this is ot.

Believe me, you have no idea of India. Sure there are problems, but India's still a wonderful place to live. There are no long standing problems between Hindus and Muslims and its only politically motivated attacks.

Anyway, what revolt are you talking about? People in India are busy making money. They don't care for any revolution.

trixtah
01-27-2008, 10:14 PM
Believe me, you have no idea of India. Sure there are problems, but India's still a wonderful place to live. There are no long standing problems between Hindus and Muslims and its only politically motivated attacks.

Anyway, what revolt are you talking about? People in India are busy making money. They don't care for any revolution.

No, India and China are great places to invest your money at the moment but they are terrible countries for their citizens to make money.

juvvi
01-27-2008, 10:27 PM
No, India and China are great places to invest your money at the moment but they are terrible countries for their citizens to make money.

:haha:
I don't know about China. India is a great place to make money. Just because some sections of the society want to be stuck with unproductive activities and hence cannot get into the economic growth bandwagon, doesn't mean India is not growing. But I agree, India has more work to do.

Also the free market is an illusion in the US. My father has exported to US and knows how much of a farce it is and how it helps US controlling the global economy. All you US, UK, blah.... need to stop judging India and China.

For all I know, I might be able to start a Grand Slam in India in 5-10 years.

Beat
01-27-2008, 10:57 PM
dear na li

sorry to wake you (or the people who told you to make those statements) up, but shanghai's climate is very, very bad due to the immense air pollution.

steph2790
01-27-2008, 11:22 PM
Ok..
You cant just move a GS to another country. Thats pathetic if China can think they could just take a GS from another country, which has been there for over 100 years.
Cant China bid for another GS then? Though that depends on the calendar.

Mr.Gasquet
01-28-2008, 02:21 AM
Chineses, I'm not going try to offend you

I find it quite disturbing when China plans to kill children if their parent have more than 1 kid. It just plain stupid and sad.

Bloodletting
01-28-2008, 03:02 AM
OK. So one slam is moving to be nearer Na Li's house.

Maybe they should move the US Open to Temperley, a couple of blocks away from Vassallo-Arguello's home.

aussie_fan
01-28-2008, 04:00 AM
When an entrepreneur has the political and the financial clout to organize a grand slam in china, you will know how history is irrelevant. Everybody can shout on top of their lungs about tradition and History but they won't be enough to stop the movement. History is always an excuse to maintain domination.

By the way I care very much about tennis. But you need to stop pretending that tennis is an exclusive sport. In a fairer free market system, the highest bidder can have the grandslam, but then we all know what a farce the american free markets are.

See what you are actually saying proves that you don't care about tennis at all. So the highest 4 bidders should get the grand slams. That's a disgusting way of thinking. I don't know how as a tennis fan you can ignore the traditon and history of grand slams even to suggest it. What the fuck should China have a slam? It just isn't right. australian Open is getting record attendances, great tv ratings and still are calls for it to be moved by a fe widiots. That's really, really sad.