Tiriac wants Madrid to be 5th slam [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Tiriac wants Madrid to be 5th slam

nobama
10-18-2007, 06:21 PM
http://www.bangkokpost.com/sportsplus/sportsplus.php?id=122711
Entrepreneur wants to turn Madrid into fifth tennis Grand Slam
By Sebastian Fest

Madrid (dpa) - It was only last month that Ion Tiriac found out Madrid will host a tournament with the best male and female tennis players in the world in 2009.

However, the Romanian is the most powerful businessman in world tennis, and he already has another goal, a gigantic plan: He wants to create a fifth Grand Slam in the Spanish capital.

"I see for the future, with all due respect for Grand Slams, that you have to have the chance to compete. In prizes, in quality, in infrastructure... In everything," Tiriac told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa in an interview in Madrid.

The plan is revolutionary. For as long as tennis has been tennis there have been four Grand Slam tournaments, and they are played in London, Paris, New York and Melbourne.

Nobody ever thought it possible to add another city to that list, nobody ever wanted to create tournaments that gave out as much money and points as those four greats.

But that is precisely Tiriac's idea. He thinks sport is different, he thinks the world has changed and you have to change the parametres.

He talks and talks, and praises himself: "In five years I turned Madrid into one of the greatest social events there is in Europe."

Sick of the rain at Wimbledon, Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone - Tiriac recalls - once asked him whether it would be possible to pay organizers 50 million pounds (102 million dollars) to take over control and manage the traditional tournament a different way.

At that time, Wimbledon did not even dream of the roof its centre court is set to have from 2009.

To argue why Madrid could host a Grand Slam, the Romanian, 68, lists three points. The first is that tennis should allow free competition.

"What I am still not satisfied about is the fact that they do not let tournaments compete. I want to compete. Tomorrow I go and ask how much are prizes at Roland Garros. Fifteen million? I go and put down 15 million, but I want to be at the points level of Roland Garros, not at the level of a '1,000.' Let me compete! But the Grand Slams will not let me compete. And neither will the ATP."

The second point of this former tennis player, former coach, former manager, former Romanian Olympic Committee chairman, businessman and banker is that Grand Slam tournaments have reached their limits.

"Unfortunately I don't think that (French President Nicolas)Sarkozy is going to let them build in the Bois de Boulogne to expand, because they already took a lot from the woods. And also they no longer have the (Olympic) Games, that the English took," Tiriac describes the challenges for Roland Garros.

London too faces obstacles.

"You cannot allow that, when you have 200 countries watching on television, the explanation is 'this is London when it rains.' Sport is no longer what is was, it is different from 20 years ago."

And Madrid is the city that according to Tiriac, incarnates more than any other this "new sport," the city that can go beyond the limits of Paris and London. The Magic Box, the fantastic tennis complex that French architect Dominique Perrault designed in the Spanish capital, is his third point.

"Madrid has a very great future, and it is going to have facilities like no other tournament. There is no other which can close three courts in five minutes and keep playing despite the rain," Tiriac stresses.

He notes he has ruled out the Asian option that he contemplated a couple of years ago.

"I do not need to move Madrid. It is likely that in Shanghai I could have made money, a lot of it. But I am lucky enough not to be about to starve to death," he says.

Dimonator133
10-18-2007, 06:29 PM
is he not aware that Miami is far and away the 5th Grand Slam????

:scratch: :shrug:

*Viva Chile*
10-18-2007, 06:38 PM
is he :cuckoo: ??

CmonAussie
10-18-2007, 06:39 PM
is he not aware that Miami is far and away the 5th Grand Slam????

:scratch: :shrug:

:wavey:
there is no such thing as a 5th major in golf, & no 5th slam in tennis:p

***
Rome has a greater history than Miami;)
TMC offers more money, prestige & points than Miami;)

>> Miami is only considered the 5th most important by Americans:devil:

scoobs
10-18-2007, 06:42 PM
Hell will freeze over first. They're not turning tennis into Formula 1 - majors sold around to the highest bidder.

Go away, Tiriac.

*Viva Chile*
10-18-2007, 06:43 PM
Grand Slams = Tradition.

You can't buy tradition even with million of dollars or euros.

Sunset of Age
10-18-2007, 06:44 PM
Tiriac - annoying as always. Thinks he sort-of owns the sport.

nobama
10-18-2007, 06:47 PM
:wavey:
there is no such thing as a 5th major in golf, & no 5th slam in tennis:p

***
Rome has a greater history than Miami;)
TMC offers more money, prestige & points than Miami;)

>> Miami is only considered the 5th most important by Americans:devil:
Wasn't Miami at one point best of 5 and that's why it got the label the 5th slam?

Burrow
10-18-2007, 06:48 PM
No. Not good idea.

Dimonator133
10-18-2007, 06:48 PM
:wavey:
there is no such thing as a 5th major in golf, & no 5th slam in tennis:p



there are plenty of dumb people on here, but I think we all know how many majors/slams there are in the respective sports. Thanks, though.

Miami is the QUOTE END QUOTE Fifth Grand Slam

The Tour Championship is the QUOTE END QUOTE Fifth Major

the answer
10-18-2007, 06:48 PM
Wasn't Miami at one point best of 5 and that's why it got the label the 5th slam?

It's still best of 5.

scoobs
10-18-2007, 06:48 PM
Grand Slams = Tradition.

You can't buy tradition even with million of dollars or euros.

Exactly - and you have to be careful with it.

Tradition is easy to destroy and very difficult to create.

There can be too much, of course, but I pray God nobody ever takes this totally numb idea seriously.

LeChuck
10-18-2007, 06:51 PM
Wasn't Miami at one point best of 5 and that's why it got the label the 5th slam?

It was best of 5 sets right across the rounds for 3 years from 1987-1989 I think.

Burrow
10-18-2007, 06:51 PM
there are plenty of dumb people on here, but I think we all know how many majors/slams there are in the respective sports. Thanks, though.

Miami is the QUOTE END QUOTE Fifth Grand Slam

The Tour Championship is the QUOTE END QUOTE Fifth Major

:cuckoo: You seriously are loony.

Dimonator133
10-18-2007, 06:51 PM
It's still best of 5.


yeah, the final is


plenty of non-Slam finals also used to be best of 5

CmonAussie
10-18-2007, 06:52 PM
Wasn't Miami at one point best of 5 and that's why it got the label the 5th slam?

:wavey:
***Miami got the term "5th Slam" by it`s tourney promoters~~ ie.`self proclaimed "5th Slam":rolleyes:

>>It`s the same deal with golf, the Players Championships, coincidentally also in Miami, is the `self proclaimed "5th Major":eek:

LeChuck
10-18-2007, 06:52 PM
Tiriac is a despicable man who is determined to drag this once great sport further into the mire.
He basically pulls Mr Disney's strings.

LeChuck
10-18-2007, 06:55 PM
Thankfully this crackpot idea of Tiriac's will never come to fruition. He seems to be seeking new ways to continually outdo himself in the ridiculousness stakes.

CmonAussie
10-18-2007, 07:00 PM
there are plenty of dumb people on here, but I think we all know how many majors/slams there are in the respective sports. Thanks, though.

Miami is the QUOTE END QUOTE Fifth Grand Slam

The Tour Championship is the QUOTE END QUOTE Fifth Major


:rolleyes:
...not sure where you`re trying to go with this, but I`ll take it this is your attempt @ sarcastic humour:confused:

##anyway, like i said, both Miami AMS & the Players Championships are the `self proclaimed` "5th Slam" & "5th Major" respectively;)

~~it`s not surprising they [Miami organisers] would blow their own trumpet, the problem lies with naive johny come latelies, who believe the crap the incompetant media comes out with:eek:

Dimonator133
10-18-2007, 07:06 PM
:rolleyes:
...not sure where you`re trying to go with this, but I`ll take it this is your attempt @ sarcastic humour:confused:

##anyway, like i said, both Miami AMS & the Players Championships are the `self proclaimed` "5th Slam" & "5th Major" respectively;)

~~it`s not surprising they [Miami organisers] would blow their own trumpet, the problem lies with naive johny come latelies, who believe the crap the incompetant media comes out with:eek:


looks to me like we're agreeing, so don't try to make something out of nothing just to get me going.:rain:

Mateya
10-18-2007, 07:06 PM
:retard:

No, thanks :retard:

cmurray
10-18-2007, 07:08 PM
Ugh. This guy drives me NUTS. All he does is push his wallet-laden weight around.

CmonAussie
10-18-2007, 07:11 PM
looks to me like we're agreeing, so don't try to make something out of nothing just to get me going.:rain:

:angel:
ok, sorry;)
peace mate:cool:

Dimonator133
10-18-2007, 07:13 PM
:angel:
ok, sorry;)
peace mate:cool:


agreed:worship:

scarecrows
10-18-2007, 07:15 PM
bullshit from start to finish

mangoes
10-18-2007, 07:28 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The scary thing is that money talks.........let's hope that idiot Mr. Disney doesn't jump on this train. And before anyone considers it a crazy notion to assume Mr. Disney would give this any thought, consider his standards thus far: Round Robin, Restructuring the tournaments point system....

Tzar
10-18-2007, 08:28 PM
Lets say that the ATP and WTA is agree with a 5th grand slam.. IT WONT BE IN MADRID! Why?

europe 2 grand slams
north america 1 grand slam
oceania 1 grand slam..

then why not Johannesbourg (SOUTH AFRICA) or RIO DE JANEIRO (BRAZIL) Maybe TOKYO (JAPAN)..other continents deserve the spot more than Europe... since they already have 2

Fee
10-18-2007, 08:29 PM
Wasn't Miami at one point best of 5 and that's why it got the label the 5th slam?

It was more than that. It was because it was co-ed, I think it was the first tournament that got permission to use a larger draw, and at one point they had a mixed doubles draw if I remember correctly. I think someone once said it was like a 'mini-slam' and the tournament ran with that and started saying '5th slam'.

Boris Franz Ecker
10-18-2007, 08:35 PM
Tiriac is a good guy...

Boris Franz Ecker
10-18-2007, 08:37 PM
This Miami 5th Slam-nonsense... please, that was back in the 80ies, is long over and was never near the reality.
the 5th major tournament is the Masters. The 6th is Olympics.

btw, Tiriac is right with a lot of things.

CmonAussie
10-18-2007, 08:49 PM
Lets say that the ATP and WTA is agree with a 5th grand slam.. IT WONT BE IN MADRID! Why?

europe 2 grand slams
north america 1 grand slam
oceania 1 grand slam..

then why not Johannesbourg (SOUTH AFRICA) or RIO DE JANEIRO (BRAZIL) Maybe TOKYO (JAPAN)..other continents deserve the spot more than Europe... since they already have 2


:worship:
you`re talking too much sense jerenoimo:cool:
...
yes in an ideal world both Asia & Sth America would have slams & Africa would atleast have a couple of ATP events, but it`s unlikely to happen:sad:

###
atleast tennis is much more international than golf:eek:
~~in golf you`ve got 3/4 majors in America:(
~~the next 6 biggest events are also in America!
*therefore America has 9/10 biggest golf tourneys [the British Open being the exception]!

>>i like the fact that tennis authorities have atleast cooperated to the point of making the big events spread internationally: slams in 3-continents, masters series in 3, ATP tourneys in 6 continents:cool:

cmurray
10-18-2007, 09:55 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The scary thing is that money talks.........let's hope that idiot Mr. Disney doesn't jump on this train. And before anyone considers it a crazy notion to assume Mr. Disney would give this any thought, consider his standards thus far: Round Robin, Restructuring the tournaments point system....

Fortunately, DeVilliers has nothing to do with grandslams - that's the ITF's domain - and hopefully they aren't as susceptible to the almighty $$.

scoobs
10-18-2007, 10:02 PM
Fortunately, DeVilliers has nothing to do with grandslams - that's the ITF's domain - and hopefully they aren't as susceptible to the almighty $$.
I don't think there's a chance in hell that the ITF or the Grand Slams themselves would do more than look down at this suggestion for the grubby, greedy piece of shit that it is.

The Grand Slams are in rude health - attendances at all continue to improve, coverage continues to improve, and all are laying out money to enhance their facilities to cater for the fans, for the players and for the elements.

They have awesome tradition behind them that makes them truly special events, and each has its own unique feel that makes it even better.

Tiriac wants it to be like F1 where all the cities fight to host the event year in, year out and those who don't offer enough don't get on the schedule - but fuck that.

trixtah
10-18-2007, 10:05 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The scary thing is that money talks.........let's hope that idiot Mr. Disney doesn't jump on this train. And before anyone considers it a crazy notion to assume Mr. Disney would give this any thought, consider his standards thus far: Round Robin, Restructuring the tournaments point system....

Disney knows his days are numbered. Don't be surprised if he buys into the idea

Stensland
10-18-2007, 10:09 PM
i don't get why tiriac wants madrid so badly. he's a businessman, right? so why doesn't he go for the big bucks in asia or somewhere else in emerging markets? europe's a saturated market, so is america. if you're in it for the cash, all eyes must be on india/china/korea and that lot with a slight chance of taking brazil into consideration. why madrid? it won't grow by a large margin, everyone knows that. miami won't grow the way the asian tourneys are either. indian wells won't, rome won't etc.

if tiriac wants to make money, go east. FAR east, that is.

cmurray
10-18-2007, 10:09 PM
I don't think there's a chance in hell that the ITF or the Grand Slams themselves would do more than look down at this suggestion for the grubby, greedy piece of shit that it is.

The Grand Slams are in rude health - attendances at all continue to improve, coverage continues to improve, and all are laying out money to enhance their facilities to cater for the fans, for the players and for the elements.

They have awesome tradition behind them that makes them truly special events, and each has its own unique feel that makes it even better.

Tiriac wants it to be like F1 where all the cities fight to host the event year in, year out and those who don't offer enough don't get on the schedule - but fuck that.

I don't think so either, fortunately. As steeped in tradition as the GS tournaments are, the ITF have become a bit snooty. Thank God. :) No way are they going to risk the prestige of the 4 GS by adding another just because somebody waved a bunch of money at them.

Merton
10-18-2007, 10:22 PM
That does not pass the laugh test, it is strange to see a proponent of competition being somebody who benefited from the fact that Madrid built the tennis infrustructure as part of their Olympic bid. The Madrid organizers have made the investment, Tiriac will gain on the upside. If things don't work out, well, he will just move to another city as he did when he moved from Stuttgart to Madrid.

leng jai
10-18-2007, 10:25 PM
I'm all for the idea of 5 slams as long as the new slam is Kooyong.

goldenlox
10-18-2007, 10:27 PM
The ITF is run by crooks. They pay a very small percentage of their profits in prizemoney.
It's about time some promoter decided to pay the players what the majors pay, and more than that.
If they produce the money, then the tournament should give slam points to the players.

And screw ITF tradition. It's all shamateurism. Pancho Gonzales was probably the best player in the world for years and years and wasn't allowed to play a major from about 1950-67.
Others like Emerson got under the table money to play in weakened fields.

Merton
10-18-2007, 10:33 PM
I do not disagree in principle that the slam locations should not be in stone but reputation is important and I doubt that the sport can endure flight by night operators running tournaments when times are good and running away when times get bad. Tennis is not Formula 1, it is not a given that there will always be demand to host a slam if some organizer goes bust.

goldenlox
10-18-2007, 10:39 PM
That's why the ATP and WTA has to make sure their mega-tournaments are funded for decades.
The money is out there. It just isn't going to the players.

I keep reading how golfers make so much more than ATP players.
That's because the ITF are crooks. They sell tv rights worldwide. Just in the US that is huge money.

Making the main draw of a major is a big deal, and the first round losers, which is half the field, get about $15,000.
Which is peanuts. It's offensive, with all the money out there.

VolandriFan
10-19-2007, 01:37 AM
That would be interesting, breaking tradition. But it will never see light of day :)

VolandriFan
10-19-2007, 01:39 AM
:worship:
you`re talking too much sense jerenoimo:cool:
...
yes in an ideal world both Asia & Sth America would have slams & Africa would atleast have a couple of ATP events, but it`s unlikely to happen:sad:

###
atleast tennis is much more international than golf:eek:
~~in golf you`ve got 3/4 majors in America:(
~~the next 6 biggest events are also in America!
*therefore America has 9/10 biggest golf tourneys [the British Open being the exception]!

>>i like the fact that tennis authorities have atleast cooperated to the point of making the big events spread internationally: slams in 3-continents, masters series in 3, ATP tourneys in 6 continents:cool:

A South American slam would be ideal. And it would be played on yellow clay.

GlennMirnyi
10-19-2007, 01:41 AM
Grand Slams = Tradition.

You can't buy tradition even with million of dollars or euros.

You just supported the theory that Olympics mean nothing. :D :D :D

CyBorg
10-19-2007, 01:42 AM
I said this about six months ago on MTF. I said explicitly that this is exactly what Tiriac would be doing. He's basically envisioning another Miami-type event, but even bigger. Miami has a best out of 3 final now. Tiriac will want best out of five for sure.

He wants a big event. Probably two weeks. Lots of hoopla, fireworks, a flag with his face on it and so on.

Action Jackson
10-19-2007, 03:18 AM
Tiriac, this is the clown who said he was ready for Round Robin for 40 years, invents words in languages. Too bad his planned 15 million dollar house in Kitz didn't get approval, then again he can always make sure his mafia cash is going to a good cause.

garad
10-19-2007, 09:11 AM
http://www.bangkokpost.com/sportsplus/sportsplus.php?id=122711
Entrepreneur wants to turn Madrid into fifth tennis Grand Slam
By Sebastian Fest

Madrid (dpa) - It was only last month that Ion Tiriac found out Madrid will host a tournament with the best male and female tennis players in the world in 2009.

However, the Romanian is the most powerful businessman in world tennis, and he already has another goal, a gigantic plan: He wants to create a fifth Grand Slam in the Spanish capital.

"I see for the future, with all due respect for Grand Slams, that you have to have the chance to compete. In prizes, in quality, in infrastructure... In everything," Tiriac told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa in an interview in Madrid.

The plan is revolutionary. For as long as tennis has been tennis there have been four Grand Slam tournaments, and they are played in London, Paris, New York and Melbourne.

Nobody ever thought it possible to add another city to that list, nobody ever wanted to create tournaments that gave out as much money and points as those four greats.

But that is precisely Tiriac's idea. He thinks sport is different, he thinks the world has changed and you have to change the parametres.

He talks and talks, and praises himself: "In five years I turned Madrid into one of the greatest social events there is in Europe."

Sick of the rain at Wimbledon, Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone - Tiriac recalls - once asked him whether it would be possible to pay organizers 50 million pounds (102 million dollars) to take over control and manage the traditional tournament a different way.

At that time, Wimbledon did not even dream of the roof its centre court is set to have from 2009.

To argue why Madrid could host a Grand Slam, the Romanian, 68, lists three points. The first is that tennis should allow free competition.

"What I am still not satisfied about is the fact that they do not let tournaments compete. I want to compete. Tomorrow I go and ask how much are prizes at Roland Garros. Fifteen million? I go and put down 15 million, but I want to be at the points level of Roland Garros, not at the level of a '1,000.' Let me compete! But the Grand Slams will not let me compete. And neither will the ATP."

The second point of this former tennis player, former coach, former manager, former Romanian Olympic Committee chairman, businessman and banker is that Grand Slam tournaments have reached their limits.

"Unfortunately I don't think that (French President Nicolas)Sarkozy is going to let them build in the Bois de Boulogne to expand, because they already took a lot from the woods. And also they no longer have the (Olympic) Games, that the English took," Tiriac describes the challenges for Roland Garros.

London too faces obstacles.

"You cannot allow that, when you have 200 countries watching on television, the explanation is 'this is London when it rains.' Sport is no longer what is was, it is different from 20 years ago."

And Madrid is the city that according to Tiriac, incarnates more than any other this "new sport," the city that can go beyond the limits of Paris and London. The Magic Box, the fantastic tennis complex that French architect Dominique Perrault designed in the Spanish capital, is his third point.

"Madrid has a very great future, and it is going to have facilities like no other tournament. There is no other which can close three courts in five minutes and keep playing despite the rain," Tiriac stresses.

He notes he has ruled out the Asian option that he contemplated a couple of years ago.

"I do not need to move Madrid. It is likely that in Shanghai I could have made money, a lot of it. But I am lucky enough not to be about to starve to death," he says.



Tiriac is an idiot, exactly the type of bankers that turn sport into the money making, celebrity mongering machine.
It's not about competition, its about tradition and slams are the epitome of tennis.

HNCS
10-19-2007, 09:21 AM
tennis needs a tennis loving business man to organise everything. but not a money making maniac. sir, please lay off our beloved sport.

goldenlox
10-19-2007, 11:17 AM
Tiriac's been in the sport a long time. The guys who run the ITF are crooks.
The USTA makes a fortune at the USO.
They pay half the draw $15,000.
That is criminal. It's an insult to the players, and it should be an insult to the fans too.

boughtmypoints
10-19-2007, 11:28 AM
Tiriac is a self serving so and so. Agreed?

Yet his ideas do have merit ...

But let's clear up some confusion here.

The 4 Grand Slams are hosted by individual national associations/federations.

The ATP tournaments are generally the playthings of guys like Tiriac.

Owing to the entrenched position of the Slams, as represented by the ITF, the Tour Events now in the guise of the ATP
have never been able to compete in the broader marketplace and present a coherent strategy. They'd love to have a Formula 1 type circuit but the Slams muddy the picture. The public will always see tour events as second best to the Slams.

All that said, there is NOTHING stopping the individual national associations/federations from coming up with the cash to elevate their "open" tournaments to Grand Slam status. So long as you are a member association of the ITF,
you can run the gambit of building the facilities, coming up with the money and asking the ITF to make room on THEIR calendar for your new slam.

The only problem will be having enough players show up.

In microcosm, this was the problem that the Aussie Open used to have. Other than its 2 weeks on the calendar, there was little to distinguish it as a tournament and the fields were weak.

The tournament directors keep hoping against hope that they will come up with a product that they can sell for elephant dollars to television as the Slams successfully do. If the ATP capitulate to the ITF and let the ITF create a new calendar with more slams, the ATP boys are out of a job, plain and simple. So we're left with the Ion Tiriacs and the Charlie Pasarells trying every trick they know of to create "new" slams and they are doomed to failure, as they are unable to distinguish in the public's mind uppity tournaments like Indian Wells and Madrid from the also ran ATP tournaments.

The only scenario that would work would be if the players dropped their traditional animosity towards the national federations and parted company with the tournament director side of the ATP and aligned themselves with the ITF.

To do so would take a charismatic ITF leader, a boatload of guaranteed money, a players' bill of rights, the end of tennis autocracy. Fat chance.

chris whiteside
10-19-2007, 11:37 AM
A complete non-starter unworthy of consideration.

jonny84
10-19-2007, 03:04 PM
Keep it to the four slams, because otherwise it will lessen the prestige of the other tournaments.

It is a good idea to have the big joined-up WTA/ATP events like Indian Wells and Miami, and then Madrid and Beijing to come in 2009, but we dont need a fifth major.

CmonAussie
10-19-2007, 10:54 PM
Keep it to the four slams, because otherwise it will lessen the prestige of the other tournaments.

It is a good idea to have the big joined-up WTA/ATP events like Indian Wells and Miami, and then Madrid and Beijing to come in 2009, but we dont need a fifth major.


:wavey:
exactly:cool: ~~ 4 is the magic number, 4 slams is just right- any more & it would lessen their relative worth, any less & there wouldn`t be enough highlights>>> keep 4:angel:

if other events like Madrid want to have bigger draws, become mixed ATP/WTA, & strenghen their Masters Series status, then that`s good for the sport too:cool:

goldenlox
10-19-2007, 11:24 PM
The players need new revenue streams. They are being totally ripped off by the ITF.
The USTA makes tens and tens of millions in profit. They sell wordwide tv rights. They sell day and night, day and night admissions. Parking, concessions. Signage. USO sponsors. Plus all the other ways they create a huge profit.

And half the draw gets $15,000. And another quarter gets $25,000. That's nothing compared to the huge profits being made by this cash cow monopoly.

The players are robbed. Most of the tour is broke. The ITF are criminals. They need competiton.

There are wealthy companies, businessmen, and countries, that want to pay for the right to hold huge events.

The players are doing the work. They're the ones with the talent. They deserve a big piece of the money that is generated by their sport.

Merton
10-20-2007, 12:20 AM
Big press picks up the story, knowing Tiriac he could have orchestrated the whole thing. If that is correct, expect a comment from Mr. Disney coming soon. Here is the article: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3070258&name=tennis

Does tennis need a fifth major?by: Peter Bodo, TENNIS.com
posted: Friday, October 19, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry
filed under: Tennis

Does tennis need another Grand Slam? And should the monopoly on majors, held by the International Tennis Federation affiliates in Australia, France, England and the U.S., be broken down, with the right to stage the most important tennis events awarded on the basis of financial bids or determined on a more market-driven basis?


The very question is bound to make fans of the game as we know it turn pale. But that's exactly what Ion Tiriac, the former player and entrepreneur behind the Madrid Masters and the pending 2009 combined spring clay-court event (also in Madrid) is suggesting. And he is already trying to promote his Madrid combined event as the de facto fifth Grand Slam.



The really scary part is that even if the idea repels (I find my stomach churning just thinking about it), Tiriac makes an interesting and strong case for doing just that. Does he have an ulterior motive? You bet! So what?



Tiriac, you may remember, is the former Romanian Olympic hockey player who took up tennis late in life and, with one of the ugliest games ever seen, made a living on the pro tour with his competitive guile, mental toughness and a hearty willingness to engage in gamesmanship (or, as many charged, outright cheating). Underestimate this man at your own peril.



In an interview with the Deutsche Presse Agentur, Tiriac recently predicted that in the future, there likely will be competition to stage the most important events because of the way the geopolitics of the game has changed. He suggested that the Grand Slams have reached their limit as far as infrastructure goes, and now maintain their preeminence only through monopolistic practices.



"What I am still not satisfied about is the fact that they do not let tournaments compete. I want to compete. Tomorrow I'll go and ask how much are prizes at Roland Garros. Fifteen million? I go and put down 15 million, but I want to be at the [rankings] points level of Roland Garros, not at the level of a '1,000' [a sub-Slam event]. Let me compete! But the Grand Slams will not let me compete. And neither will the ATP."



The problem, of course, is that the Grand Slams, which evolved out of the national championships of the leading tennis nations, are like NFL franchises. You can't buy or start one just because you have the dough and are willing to risk it.



Nevertheless, it isn't surprising that the ongoing, obvious shifts in the world tennis order would create a certain amount of upheaval. And you could very easily read Tiriac's comments as the potential first shot fired across the bow of the establishment in the continuation of the tennis wars that have always plagued the sport.

scoobs
10-20-2007, 01:25 AM
The man made a career of being an outsider and anti-establishment - it's no wonder he now wishes to use his wealth to attack the establishments he still despises.

Not because he despises establishment, more because he wants to be the one calling the shots in them.

I hope they shit on him from a dizzy height.

goldenlox
10-20-2007, 01:52 AM
This establishment deserves to be shat on. They need real competition. The players desperately need people who are willing to pay them, because the powers in control want to keep all the players, save a few dozen, broke.

Merton
10-20-2007, 01:59 AM
The players need new revenue streams. They are being totally ripped off by the ITF.
The USTA makes tens and tens of millions in profit. They sell wordwide tv rights. They sell day and night, day and night admissions. Parking, concessions. Signage. USO sponsors. Plus all the other ways they create a huge profit.

And half the draw gets $15,000. And another quarter gets $25,000. That's nothing compared to the huge profits being made by this cash cow monopoly.

The players are robbed. Most of the tour is broke. The ITF are criminals. They need competiton.

There are wealthy companies, businessmen, and countries, that want to pay for the right to hold huge events.

The players are doing the work. They're the ones with the talent. They deserve a big piece of the money that is generated by their sport.

This establishment deserves to be shat on. They need real competition. The players desperately need people who are willing to pay them, because the powers in control want to keep all the players, save a few dozen, broke.

It is not obvious to me why participating in a union with tournament directors (ATP) is more beneficial for the players than having a union of their own. Especially at this point, it seems that the ATP tilts more in favour of the tournament directors. Still, the fact that the players do not get a good part of the pie from the slams today does not imply that they would get a better part if the tour directors had more control versus the ITF.

pricdews
10-20-2007, 05:32 AM
While noone should take messing with tradition lightly, the current composition of top players makes me wonder why Australia has a major while Spain and Russia don't.

I think the answer is more in elevating the status of the Masters Series than diluting the majors. Changing the name of the Masters events every few years isn't helping. Tradition counts (look at other sports).

I'd suggest spacing out the major events more carefully. Create a bigger separation from the top Masters events and all below (calling them 1000 and 500 is a move in the wrong direction).

I don't know enough about the Masters events to say which should be promoted more than others, but is seems like having a steady 1 major event per month from January to November would help broaden tennis's appeal past just the majors (to which the mainstream US media restricts coverage).

The tour seems to be doing a good job in concentrating the top players in the top events. The next step is building tradition. Something that hasn't been done outside the majors.

CmonAussie
10-20-2007, 07:02 AM
While noone should take messing with tradition lightly, the current composition of top players makes me wonder why Australia has a major while Spain and Russia don't.

I think the answer is more in elevating the status of the Masters Series than diluting the majors. Changing the name of the Masters events every few years isn't helping. Tradition counts (look at other sports).

I'd suggest spacing out the major events more carefully. Create a bigger separation from the top Masters events and all below (calling them 1000 and 500 is a move in the wrong direction).

I don't know enough about the Masters events to say which should be promoted more than others, but is seems like having a steady 1 major event per month from January to November would help broaden tennis's appeal past just the majors (to which the mainstream US media restricts coverage).

The tour seems to be doing a good job in concentrating the top players in the top events. The next step is building tradition. Something that hasn't been done outside the majors.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
So AO`s standing as a slam should be demoted because currently we have less top players than Spain or Russia:confused:
...
yeah that makes a lot of sense:p

~~so lets make Wimbledon a regular ATP event & turn Basel [Swiss] into a slam:devil:
**I mean the World`s #1 player is from Switzerland, so it`s the only sensible thing to do:eek:


get a sense of perspective & history mate:cool:

CmonAussie
10-20-2007, 07:07 AM
While noone should take messing with tradition lightly, the current composition of top players makes me wonder why Australia has a major while Spain and Russia don't.

I think the answer is more in elevating the status of the Masters Series than diluting the majors. Changing the name of the Masters events every few years isn't helping. Tradition counts (look at other sports).

I'd suggest spacing out the major events more carefully. Create a bigger separation from the top Masters events and all below (calling them 1000 and 500 is a move in the wrong direction).

I don't know enough about the Masters events to say which should be promoted more than others, but is seems like having a steady 1 major event per month from January to November would help broaden tennis's appeal past just the majors (to which the mainstream US media restricts coverage).

The tour seems to be doing a good job in concentrating the top players in the top events. The next step is building tradition. Something that hasn't been done outside the majors.


:rolleyes:
So your solution would be to have 12 Slams:confused:
I don`t think having a major every month is the way to go;)
The Masters Series have enough weighting~~ if you win two Masters Series it`s equal to one Slam, if you continued to bump up the Masters Series then the slams lose some of their importance & fans/players would be confused:eek:

Your solutions sounds to me like the Grand Prix F1 model, which certainly wouldn`t work for tennis, though Tiriac may appreciate your views:devil:

Action Jackson
10-20-2007, 09:40 AM
The players need new revenue streams. They are being totally ripped off by the ITF.
The USTA makes tens and tens of millions in profit. They sell wordwide tv rights. They sell day and night, day and night admissions. Parking, concessions. Signage. USO sponsors. Plus all the other ways they create a huge profit.

And half the draw gets $15,000. And another quarter gets $25,000. That's nothing compared to the huge profits being made by this cash cow monopoly.

The players are robbed. Most of the tour is broke. The ITF are criminals. They need competiton.

There are wealthy companies, businessmen, and countries, that want to pay for the right to hold huge events.

The players are doing the work. They're the ones with the talent. They deserve a big piece of the money that is generated by their sport.

Is that you Mr Disney?

Considering the ATP shits on the players and as a union works against them and for tournament directors and it's not hard to find evidence of this happening. Do players deserve more cash, well yes, but the ATP doesn't work for them.

goldenlox
10-20-2007, 12:00 PM
The ATP and WTA are not doing as much as they should for players outside the top 20.
But I don't see how anyone can look at what the ITF does and not think they are crooks.

TA has spent the last few years trying to keep Doha from having a Tier I before the AO.
Those Aussie tournaments -nothing in prizemoney. Nothing. Sydney draws 18 of the top 20 women and pays Tier II money. All the players get ripped off in those situations.

Creating 2 more 2 week events to go with IW and Miami is a start.
The ATP and the WTA has to do much more. And raising prizemoney to slam levels, which is very small money compared to what the ITF takes in, is a start for the ATP and WTA.

The rank and file have no voice, They have no money, and they aren't draws. But they are 95% of the tour.
They need wages where they can exist.

Action Jackson
10-20-2007, 12:21 PM
The ATP and WTA are not doing as much as they should for players outside the top 20.
But I don't see how anyone can look at what the ITF does and not think they are crooks.

TA has spent the last few years trying to keep Doha from having a Tier I before the AO.
Those Aussie tournaments -nothing in prizemoney. Nothing. Sydney draws 18 of the top 20 women and pays Tier II money. All the players get ripped off in those situations.

Creating 2 more 2 week events to go with IW and Miami is a start.
The ATP and the WTA has to do much more. And raising prizemoney to slam levels, which is very small money compared to what the ITF takes in, is a start for the ATP and WTA.

The rank and file have no voice, They have no money, and they aren't draws. But they are 95% of the tour.
They need wages where they can exist.

What about the Aussie events they serve their purpose as lead up events to the Aussie Open, because that is all that they are in reality.

The USTA is actually a non-profit organisation albeit one with plenty of money.

Raising the prizemoney level to the Slams, that is a joke. There needs to be a differential and the Slams are the most important events and yes Dubai could pay 50 million to the winner, but it will still mean shit compared to GS events.

The ATP/WTA need to look after their own tour and leave the ITF to run the Slams Davis and Fed Cups.

The ATP don't care about their players and this is not a recent thing.

Julio
10-20-2007, 01:02 PM
I love Madrid but Tiriac should stop cannabis. Four Slams is good enough.
My only wish in Atp Tour is to see The Artois Championships becomes the first (and only) Masters Series Event on grass.

goldenlox
10-20-2007, 01:08 PM
The ATP and WTA have to be involved with the ITF. The USTA was threatening to start their own tour if the WTA changed the pre-USO schedule too much.

They have to be involved with these ITF idiots, and they have to increase prizemoney.
I don't mean for the winner.
IW and Miami should be 128, not 96.
And the 64 who go out in round 1 should get at least $25,000.
The winners make enough. The early round prizemoney has to go way, way up.

Sunset of Age
10-20-2007, 01:11 PM
The ATP and WTA have to be involved with the ITF.

Heaven Forbid. Even more influence on the game to Mr. Disney and his comrades, as if he isn't doing enough damage to the tour already.

Not ALL in life is about the money. The GS are the most prestigious tournaments in tennis, and may it remain that way, please.

goldenlox
10-20-2007, 01:16 PM
If you are ranked about 50, or 70, or 120, or 150, then it IS all about money.
The ITF could triple slam prizemoney, and they still would be making a fortune.
THe WTA roadmap is going to raise WTA prizemoney 30%. That's still very little. Just the beginning.

Forehander
10-20-2007, 01:55 PM
lol you guys will be surprised

pricdews
10-20-2007, 06:40 PM
Reading comprehension? I didn't suggest doing away with the AO. I just think it's a real question that the players are passing up money in the Spanish tennis market by not having a major there. Not that there's an easy solution. Just that it's a subject that ought to be open for disussion. As I said, tradition is important. I wouldn't make changes lightly.

I didn't say have 12 majors. Just that the US market barely notices the AO, so the whole tennis season for some is from June to September. Barely over 3 months. I think the US market likes tennis enough to expand on that. Elevating the Masters Series and distinguishing them more, not less from other ATP events may be a way to spread out the calendar. Majors will still be majors. Should there be 4 for eternity? Maybe, but let's not forget the open era only started a couple generations ago and the AO used to be skipped over by many top players until the 80s.

I don't care if the 4 majors forever stand far above everything else. I'd just like to see a little more tennis year round that gets decent coverage. Tennis that I'm sure the players are 100% committed to winning (didn't see that in Cincy). I think they're blowing that opportunity with the Mercedes Super 9 Masters Series 1000 events doing little to build tradition themselves.

Bilbo
10-20-2007, 07:15 PM
Tiriac is sucking fat ones

Action Jackson
10-20-2007, 08:06 PM
I'd just like to see a little more tennis year round that gets decent coverage. Tennis that I'm sure the players are 100% committed to winning (didn't see that in Cincy). I think they're blowing that opportunity with the Mercedes Super 9 Masters Series 1000 events doing little to build tradition themselves.

Oh yeah there is only 5 weeks off season, yes there really needs to be more tennis.

Just that the US market barely notices the AO, so the whole tennis season for some is from June to September. Barely over 3 months. I think the US market likes tennis enough to expand on that.

US is the only tennis market in the world.

CmonAussie
10-20-2007, 09:01 PM
Reading comprehension? I didn't suggest doing away with the AO. I just think it's a real question that the players are passing up money in the Spanish tennis market by not having a major there. Not that there's an easy solution. Just that it's a subject that ought to be open for disussion. As I said, tradition is important. I wouldn't make changes lightly.

I didn't say have 12 majors. Just that the US market barely notices the AO, so the whole tennis season for some is from June to September. Barely over 3 months. I think the US market likes tennis enough to expand on that. Elevating the Masters Series and distinguishing them more, not less from other ATP events may be a way to spread out the calendar. Majors will still be majors. Should there be 4 for eternity? Maybe, but let's not forget the open era only started a couple generations ago and the AO used to be skipped over by many top players until the 80s.

I don't care if the 4 majors forever stand far above everything else. I'd just like to see a little more tennis year round that gets decent coverage. Tennis that I'm sure the players are 100% committed to winning (didn't see that in Cincy). I think they're blowing that opportunity with the Mercedes Super 9 Masters Series 1000 events doing little to build tradition themselves.


:devil: Basically you`re taking the America-centric viewpoint;)
...
>>well you probably won`t get any more tennis coverage on American TVs until the next Sampras or Agassi comes along, so you`ll be waiting a long time:eek:
**also it seems Nascar, football (Yankie style) & basketball are so entrenched as the leaders in US sport that a tennis popularity renaissance is unlikely!!

anyway it doesn`t matter so much because tennis is huge in Europe, Asia, Australia & parts of South America:p

Jimnik
10-20-2007, 09:09 PM
I want Queens to be the 5th slam but it aint gonna happen.

boughtmypoints
10-20-2007, 09:18 PM
... Just that the US market barely notices the AO, so the whole tennis season for some is from June to September. Barely over 3 months.

The English only care about tennis during the run up to and during Wimbledon.

The French at least take an interest in grass roots and club tennis besides RG and their tour level events.

Guys, we're a tiny minority in the sports watching world, interested in tennis year round.

The crux of the problem is getting a larger number of people involved in the sport on a season long basis.

The current never ending season is a disaster. The "race" ... discredited.

The money does have to be more equitably spread for the game as a whole. Soccer could not and does not survive on 20 "Galacticos" making the big money and the supporting cast struggling to pay their coaches.

The $25,000 first round money is a good idea, but let's have 10 tournaments paying that kind of money to guarantee $250,000-$500,000 in annual prize money for any top 100 player.

And while we're at it, make the Davis Cup quadriennial ... or just bury it and the Olympics farce and introduce a tennis world cup. And get away from the current format where 1 outstanding player is all you need to win the Davis Cup!

Then you might capture the sporting world's imagination.

pricdews
10-20-2007, 09:20 PM
funny I'd take the American viewpoint, living in America? Sure it's not the only market, but I'd think it is an important market. A market that could do better (for all these starving tennis players making 15k for losing a match).

5 weeks off? That's part of my point. These regular ATP events are diluting the importance of the Masters level events. Outside of the majors, the schedule is overwhelming to the casual sports fans. Tiriac seems rather self-serving, but part of his claim is that Madrid can be bigger. To me that's an interesting idea worth discussing.

goldenlox
10-20-2007, 09:31 PM
There needs to be competition. Otherwise, the players are the ones getting ripped off.
I don't expect the public to just suddenly accept another major.
But new money and bigger events are the way to go. We have plenty of WTA only and ATP only events.
When companies know that Federer, Sharapova, Nadal, Williams, Roddick, Mirza, etc, are all going to be there, it's easier to sell it to sponsors, and the sponsors are then motivated to promote it.

Action Jackson
10-21-2007, 11:38 AM
funny I'd take the American viewpoint, living in America? Sure it's not the only market, but I'd think it is an important market. A market that could do better (for all these starving tennis players making 15k for losing a match).

5 weeks off? That's part of my point. These regular ATP events are diluting the importance of the Masters level events. Outside of the majors, the schedule is overwhelming to the casual sports fans. Tiriac seems rather self-serving, but part of his claim is that Madrid can be bigger. To me that's an interesting idea worth discussing.

Here is the difference I am not from a major tennis nation and it's never going to be one. So I don't think lets just saturate the American market, where they have more than enough sports to choose from at the expense of the other places which don't have that su

The regular events aren't diluting the TMS events, why cause you can't watch them or something. That's an issue of TV rights.

Who gives a fuck about the bandwagon fans honestly? If people are interested enough in the product and aren't treated like idiots, then they will take a more positive step, if not, then they will go onto the next new fad.

Action Jackson
10-21-2007, 11:45 AM
The English only care about tennis during the run up to and during Wimbledon.

The French at least take an interest in grass roots and club tennis besides RG and their tour level events.

Guys, we're a tiny minority in the sports watching world, interested in tennis year round.

The crux of the problem is getting a larger number of people involved in the sport on a season long basis.

The current never ending season is a disaster. The "race" ... discredited.

The money does have to be more equitably spread for the game as a whole. Soccer could not and does not survive on 20 "Galacticos" making the big money and the supporting cast struggling to pay their coaches.

The $25,000 first round money is a good idea, but let's have 10 tournaments paying that kind of money to guarantee $250,000-$500,000 in annual prize money for any top 100 player.

And while we're at it, make the Davis Cup quadriennial ... or just bury it and the Olympics farce and introduce a tennis world cup. And get away from the current format where 1 outstanding player is all you need to win the Davis Cup!

Then you might capture the sporting world's imagination.

Very good points, but as you know tennis is never going to be the national sport in any country for a lot of reasons and the boom that happened in 70s and early 80s was a one off thing.

If they are actually serious, then they would need to get tennis out to a greater number of people, besides the Slams, this is something that has not been addressed.

As for Davis Cup, well this provides a lot of the revenue for tennis federations and who/what is going to cover that loss of revenue for them if it was played every 2 years and the cash they get to put in programs for players or junior tournaments. Sponsors won't stick around, unless they get something in return.

DC can be reduced to 14 teams with giving the previous finalists a bye into the 2nd round and then instead of the first round losers, it would be them and the quarter finalists that will play promotion/relegation playoffs to make it more equitable.

Action Jackson
03-12-2008, 04:45 AM
Wonder what the latest crap that Tiriac will come up. He was the guy that supported Round Robin for 40 years.

Jimnik
07-29-2012, 10:44 PM
Tiriac is a pile of poo.

Freak3yman84
07-29-2012, 11:14 PM
Tiriac is a pile of poo.

:lol: :haha: :spit: Nice way to bump!

finishingmove
07-30-2012, 12:35 AM
I like this idea. No, I love it.

It would have to be played in November and indoors though.

BroTree123
07-30-2012, 12:55 AM
The Godfather knows what he's doing.

Honestly
07-30-2012, 01:00 AM
MAdrid is the 5th slam after the GOAT won it.