If God ended choking, what would be the current top 10? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

If God ended choking, what would be the current top 10?

Kuhne
10-17-2007, 08:58 PM
There are players with such an incredible ammount of skill and are hurt by their choking, obviously the first one that comes to mind is Safin but lets say god ended choking, obviously guys like Baghdatis and Safin would be way higher, Roddick would also be a menace while guys like Davidenko in my opinion wouldn't be that high because the reason why they do so good is because they are consistent, not exactly special in any way.

I think number 1 and 2 would be the same, Roger and Rafa but Safin would be fighting for that second spot with rafa and also the distance from #1 and #2 would be very close.

RagingLamb
10-17-2007, 09:11 PM
Davydenko would be number 1.

Beforehand
10-17-2007, 09:17 PM
You're asking "Who would be the #1 player on talent alone?". Choking covers a lot less than this thread wants it to.

krakenzero
10-17-2007, 09:27 PM
God just can´t eliminate choking. It's a funny force bigger than Himself.

nanoman
10-17-2007, 09:49 PM
There are players with such an incredible ammount of skill and are hurt by their choking, obviously the first one that comes to mind is Safin but lets say god ended choking, obviously guys like Baghdatis and Safin would be way higher, Roddick would also be a menace while guys like Davidenko in my opinion wouldn't be that high because the reason why they do so good is because they are consistent, not exactly special in any way.

I think number 1 and 2 would be the same, Roger and Rafa but Safin would be fighting for that second spot with rafa and also the distance from #1 and #2 would be very close.

Baggy's problem is not that he chokes, he is just stupid. He's clueless on court. He doesn't know when to step up, when to just keep the ball in play, when to takes something off his 1st serve to keep a higher percentage etc.

Safin just plains sucks, nothing to do with choking. He's happy to give the impression that he doesn't care to dig deep anymore, maybe afraid to find out that his best isn't good enough anymore, still living off his 2005 Federer win, happy to keep the myth that at his best, when he cares-> he is unbeatable.

Davydenko is a MAJOR choker.

Schu
10-17-2007, 10:03 PM
Of course, this is based on the assumption that 1. there is a God and 2. that losing a lead in a match is always choking.

True that loosing a lead in a match in not always choking but i saw some MAJOR choke today from a few of the Masters contenders.

rofe
10-17-2007, 10:07 PM
It would be exactly what it is today.

stebs
10-17-2007, 10:10 PM
Baghdatis chokes occasionally. Yes he did it against Federer but on the whole it is just poor shot selection and that ain't choking.

Safin is not a top 20 player anymore evn if he was mentally strong. He just isn't that good.

Funny thing is, lately Davydenko has been a bigger choker than either of those two and yet he is the guy who won't move up much. Davydenko - choking would have an RG final under his belt this year.

marcRD
10-17-2007, 10:15 PM
Ironicaly, Safin would then not have won Australian open 2005 where Federer clearly choked.

Tomy
10-17-2007, 10:25 PM
God just can´t eliminate choking. It's a funny force bigger than Himself.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

HNCS
10-18-2007, 12:47 AM
Ironicaly, Safin would then not have won Australian open 2005 where Federer clearly choked.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

World Beater
10-18-2007, 12:52 AM
the weird thing about baghdatis is that his tactical sense and point construction in 06 slams runs was very good.

Dunno what happened to him since then. He played on instinct before and now i guess he cant rely on it anymore. But no question, baghdatis can be clueless.

Davydenko would be ranked higher, so would james flake and roddick would be lower.

Burrow
10-18-2007, 01:04 AM
Mathieu has a fantastic looking game, if only he were mentally more capable.

Marek.
10-18-2007, 01:09 AM
Ironicaly, Safin would then not have won Australian open 2005 where Federer clearly choked.

How did Federer choke in that match?

Dimonator133
10-18-2007, 01:13 AM
Federer certainly wouldn't be 1, that's for sure


cause guys like Davy and Djoker (note the Open) and god knows who else wouldn't be terrified of winning a key point against him


in other words, everyone else would play real tennis against him, joining Willy as the only player who does so in reality

KaxMisha
10-18-2007, 02:16 AM
Federer certainly wouldn't be 1, that's for sure


cause guys like Davy and Djoker (note the Open) and god knows who else wouldn't be terrified of winning a key point against him


in other words, everyone else would play real tennis against him, joining Willy as the only player who does so in reality

Number 1? :eek: Federer wouldn't even be in the top ten! That guy clearly sucks. I mean, come on! We all know that he's just a transitional champion with a stable, boring game - nothing special to it, really. Karlovic would be the world number one, because, as we all know, every time Karlovic fails to hit an ace - it's a choke. :wavey:

On a more serious note, if you are serious, your post might be the most stupid one on MTF ever, which is saying a lot with people like Mediter and RFK around...

World Beater
10-18-2007, 02:17 AM
Number 1? :eek: Federer wouldn't even be in the top ten! That guy clearly sucks. I mean, come on! We all know that he's just a transitional champion with a stable, boring game - nothing special to it, really. Karlovic would be the world number one, because, as we all know, every time Karlovic fails to hit an ace - it's a choke. :wavey:

On a more serious note, if you are serious, your post might be the most stupid one on MTF ever, which is saying a lot with people like Mediter and RFK around...

dimonator is aware of the prestige of the ACC.

verdasco should be in the top 10. Haas, verdasco and nalbandian would be there.

KaxMisha
10-18-2007, 02:21 AM
dimonator is aware of the prestige of the ACC.

verdasco should be in the top 10. Haas, verdasco and nalbandian would be there.

Couldn't agree more about Verdasco. He's one of the biggest chokers on tour (if not THE biggest).

Action Jackson
10-18-2007, 02:24 AM
Couldn't agree more about Verdasco. He's one of the biggest chokers on tour (if not THE biggest).

Calleri is a bigger one, but Verdasco is special in that regard.

jcempire
10-18-2007, 02:28 AM
There are players with such an incredible ammount of skill and are hurt by their choking, obviously the first one that comes to mind is Safin but lets say god ended choking, obviously guys like Baghdatis and Safin would be way higher, Roddick would also be a menace while guys like Davidenko in my opinion wouldn't be that high because the reason why they do so good is because they are consistent, not exactly special in any way.

I think number 1 and 2 would be the same, Roger and Rafa but Safin would be fighting for that second spot with rafa and also the distance from #1 and #2 would be very close.

What a question???

Dimonator133
10-18-2007, 02:31 AM
Almagro would be a lot higher after what I just witnessed in the first set against Gonzo

KaxMisha
10-18-2007, 02:32 AM
Calleri is a bigger one, but Verdasco is special in that regard.

Yeah, Calleri also has a huge game. I wish Federer had his backhand drive... Or Gaudio's, for that matter. Another choker I know we both like. ;)
Just look at the backhands in this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1xva7VjBvs&mode=related&search). Sick!

KaxMisha
10-18-2007, 02:35 AM
Almagro would be a lot higher after what I just witnessed in the first set against Gonzo

Maybe he'd be the world number one, right? ;)

Action Jackson
10-18-2007, 02:35 AM
Yeah, Calleri also has a huge game. I wish Federer had his backhand drive... Or Gaudio's, for that matter. Another choker I know we both like. ;)
Just look at the backhands in this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1xva7VjBvs&mode=related&search). Sick!

Calleri along with his choking, has only ever played 1 full season on tour and he finished in the top 20. He had a lot of injury problems and also started quite late cause of financial problems.

Well if Fed had a backhand like Costa or Corretja even, then that would be huge, at the same time he has done quite well with the one he has now.

Dimonator133
10-18-2007, 02:36 AM
Maybe he'd be the world number one, right? ;)


maybe Top 20. His physical game wouldn't even be THAT great if it was accompanied by a decent mental game.

KaxMisha
10-18-2007, 02:41 AM
Calleri along with his choking, has only ever played 1 full season on tour and he finished in the top 20. He had a lot of injury problems and also started quite late cause of financial problems.

Well if Fed had a backhand like Costa or Corretja even, then that would be huge, at the same time he has done quite well with the one he has now.

Yeah, I noted that about Calleri. He won his first match on the tour in 1999 if I recall correctly. Seeing as he was born in 1976, that makes him 23 years old! That's prettu insane.

As for Federer - yeah, I suppose, but I mean... Look at that clip. Both of those guys use drives when his only option clearly would have been slicing. Federer's backhand slice is fantastic, but if his drive were too, he'd be unstoppable.

leng jai
10-18-2007, 02:41 AM
Calleri along with his choking, has only ever played 1 full season on tour and he finished in the top 20. He had a lot of injury problems and also started quite late cause of financial problems.

Well if Fed had a backhand like Costa or Corretja/Robredo even, then that would be huge, at the same time he has done quite well with the one he has now.

Fixed.

KaxMisha
10-18-2007, 02:42 AM
maybe Top 20. His physical game wouldn't even be THAT great if it was accompanied by a decent mental game.

I see... Thanks, I really thought he'd be number one. Silly me. So tell me, who would be the world number one if all the choking when players play versus the transitional champ suddenly disappeared?

Action Jackson
10-18-2007, 02:51 AM
Yeah, I noted that about Calleri. He won his first match on the tour in 1999 if I recall correctly. Seeing as he was born in 1976, that makes him 23 years old! That's prettu insane.

As for Federer - yeah, I suppose, but I mean... Look at that clip. Both of those guys use drives when his only option clearly would have been slicing. Federer's backhand slice is fantastic, but if his drive were too, he'd be unstoppable.

What happened was he had to work in his parents shop to get some money to go travelling and then he was able to play Bundesliga tennis and that was a lot of cash to him.

He qualified for RG 2000 where he beat Mantilla and Hrbaty, then lost to Medvedev in 4 sets.

Yes, I could watch Calleri and Gaston hit backhands all day. I mean Calleri is a guy who can hit single handers down the line shoulder high harder than most players can hit forehands.

Burrow
10-18-2007, 03:00 AM
Calleri on form is a joy to watch, obviously similar to Gaudio. Too bad they both are headcases, in different ways.

Two of the most attractive single handed backhands I have probably ever seen.

KaxMisha
10-18-2007, 03:00 AM
What happened was he had to work in his parents shop to get some money to go travelling and then he was able to play Bundesliga tennis and that was a lot of cash to him.

He qualified for RG 2000 where he beat Mantilla and Hrbaty, then lost to Medvedev in 4 sets.

Yes, I could watch Calleri and Gaston hit backhands all day. I mean Calleri is a guy who can hit single handers down the line shoulder high harder than most players can hit forehands.

I see. Thanks for the info! Quite fascinating that he still managed to go pro at such an advanced age.

KaxMisha
10-18-2007, 03:02 AM
Calleri on form is a joy to watch, obviously similar to Gaudio. Too bad they both are headcases, in different ways.

Two of the most attractive single handed backhands I have probably ever seen.

Yeah, along with Kuerten! :D

Action Jackson
10-18-2007, 03:04 AM
I see. Thanks for the info! Quite fascinating that he still managed to go pro at such an advanced age.

The talent was always there, he just couldn't get lucky with the injuries. He did used to be a lot fatter than he was, hence the nickname Gordo.

As good as he was against Hewitt at the US Open for 3 sets, his best match ever was in Davis Cup 2003 Malaga when he thrashed Ferrero when JCF was the man on clay in straight sets. He even got a standing ovation from the Spanish fans.

Too bad he wasn't able to sometimes play with a bit more control and then unleash the power, but that's Calleri, got to take the good with the bad.

Burrow
10-18-2007, 03:09 AM
Yes the Ferrero match at the Davis Cup was amazing, and that was when Ferrero was the king of clay, I thought Calleri could have taken it close if he played well, but he played the match of his life and the hammering he gave him in the final set was phenomenal, I was very happy for him.

Action Jackson
10-18-2007, 03:11 AM
I am trying to get that match on DVD, it was out of this world what he was playing, too bad about what happened in the 5th match.

The TMS guys were commenting on how much they love watching him when he is playing well, but when he is awful, he is awful.

sierra91
10-18-2007, 03:23 AM
How did Federer choke in that match? I haven't seen the match since the day after it was played but, if memory serves, besides blowing a match point in the 4th set when he tried a between-the-legs shot on a good lob by Safin where it looked like he could have run around and hit the ball the old-fashioned way to have at least stayed in the point, Federer had another opportunity to win when he served at 5-2 in the 4th set TB and, with the match on his racquet, lost both points.

Of course, we tennis fans in the U.S. did not get to see the match live thanks to ES-fucking-PN2. TALK ABOUT CHOKING :banghead:

Marek.
10-18-2007, 03:31 AM
I haven't seen the match since the day after it was played but, if memory serves, besides blowing a match point in the 4th set when he tried a between-the-legs shot on a good lob by Safin where it looked like he could have run around and hit the ball the old-fashioned way to have at least stayed in the point, Federer had another opportunity to win when he served at 5-2 in the 4th set TB and, with the match on his racquet, lost both points.

Of course, we tennis fans in the U.S. did not get to see the match live thanks to ES-fucking-PN2. TALK ABOUT CHOKING :banghead:

I have the match on DVD actually, and just watched it about two weeks ago. Safin played great to get the tie-break back to 5 all and while Fed played a stupid shot on MP, I wouldn't call it choking. Some people forget that Fed was down *2-5 in the fifth and saved six match points before literally going down on the seventh.

sierra91
10-18-2007, 03:53 AM
I have the match on DVD actually, and just watched it about two weeks ago. Safin played great to get the tie-break back to 5 all and while Fed played a stupid shot on MP, I wouldn't call it choking. Some people forget that Fed was down *2-5 in the fifth and saved six match points before literally going down on the seventh.

I agree with you and wasn't clear when I replied that I was thinking about reasons that might be given in answer to your question. I still haven't seen the 5th set yet. Maybe one day before I die.:rolleyes:

General Suburbia
10-18-2007, 05:02 AM
Mathieu has a fantastic looking game, if only he were mentally more capable.
Mathieu's inability to be ranked higher isn't just because of his choking - that's only half the reason. It's just that his game is pretty much an all-or-nothing kind of tennis. Choking or not, that's just how he is.

Allure
10-18-2007, 05:13 AM
If Roddick doesn't choke, he would have beaten Federer 14-1.

Marek.
10-18-2007, 05:24 AM
I agree with you and wasn't clear when I replied that I was thinking about reasons that might be given in answer to your question. I still haven't seen the 5th set yet. Maybe one day before I die.:rolleyes:

Okay, I get you now. ;) Yeah, the fifth set has some amazing points, especially when it mattered most. Hopefully you'll be able to watch it someday.

marcRD
10-18-2007, 10:35 AM
How did Federer choke in that match?

How about serving with 5-2 in a tiebreak, never getting a 1st serve in from there on, 2 horrible ues on his own serve so that Safin can go up to 4-5, then still gets a match point and once again cant get a 1st serve in and loses the match point trying to hit a shot between his legs. After the lost match point we have a mental breakdown and Federer disappears from the match for a moment. If that is not choking, what is it?

Kolya
10-18-2007, 10:58 AM
Davydenko could be No. 3.

Mayer would be in the top 30 or 20.

gjr
10-18-2007, 11:10 AM
I still think federer would be the No. 1. Choke or no choke against him, he still has the best all round game on tour.