Best returner in the game today [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Best returner in the game today

zcess81
10-16-2007, 10:20 AM
Who do you think has the best return of serve in the mens game today?

scarecrows
10-16-2007, 10:21 AM
Ferrer, Murray and Federer

NikolaBGD
10-16-2007, 10:23 AM
scarecrows, you really likes monkeys:)

scarecrows
10-16-2007, 10:26 AM
scarecrows, you really likes monkeys:)

yes i do and it's my avatar trademark

but it's not a fetish like some might think :scared:

t0x
10-16-2007, 10:41 AM
Murray, Ferrer, Hewitt, (on-form) Nalby.

Federer too - more at first serves, he doesn't punish second serves that often.

zcess81
10-16-2007, 10:44 AM
Federer is better returner than people give him credit for...how else you explain his returns against Andy Roddick?

Jaap
10-16-2007, 10:47 AM
Federer.

nanoman
10-16-2007, 11:28 AM
First serve: Fed
Second serve: Nalbandian, Blake, Davydenko come to mind.

Renaud
10-16-2007, 11:30 AM
I don't understand Roddick and Lopez in the pole....
I'd say
1) Ferrer
2) Nadal
3) Federer
4) Murray/Nalby

zcess81
10-16-2007, 11:35 AM
I don't understand Roddick and Lopez in the pole....
I'd say
1) Ferrer
2) Nadal
3) Federer
4) Murray/Nalby

Lopez I think is underrated when it comes to return of serve...as for Roddick...I had an extra line to fill:)

LeChuck
10-16-2007, 11:35 AM
During the Montreal Masters this August, the RDS commentator Yvan Ponton said that Roddick was well renound for his return of serve, which was hilarious.

Apemant
10-16-2007, 11:39 AM
There should be separate polls for 1st serves and 2nd serves... and by 1st serves I don't mean something Nieminen does :devil:

Anyway, this discussion is not complete without this link
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/

Although it doesn't tell the whole story... Nadal is, indeed, a good returner but his score is somewhat inflated by all those points he won in his plethora of clay matches, where 'returning' is mainly irrelevant compared to the subsequent rally in which Nadal usually dominates.

Best returners of fast 1st serves seem to be Murray, Ferrer and Federer. 2nd serve I'd usually pick Nalbandian but it's a long time I've seen his best. Davy and Nole also seem to punish weak serves pretty harshly. Federer is surprisingly meek returning 2nd serves, probably because they almost always go to his BH side. Poor Fed :sad:

Rogiman
10-16-2007, 11:43 AM
Ivo Karlovic :rocker2:

ReturnWinner
10-16-2007, 11:47 AM
Lopez I think is underrated when it comes to return of serve.

there is not much to underrate in his return :shrug:

Iván
10-16-2007, 11:49 AM
What about stan wawawoowaa?

Horatio Caine
10-16-2007, 12:41 PM
What about stan wawawoowaa?

The question was: "Who is the best returner in the mens game today?"


I think it has to be Federer, given that he is world #1. Otherwise, Nadal, Djokovic, Ferrer and Murray come in a close 2nd.

adee-gee
10-16-2007, 12:43 PM
Lopez I think is underrated when it comes to return of serve...as for Roddick...I had an extra line to fill:)
:haha: Lopez has one of the worst returns in the game.

Xristos
10-16-2007, 12:49 PM
Got to be Lopez..

That tennis kid
10-16-2007, 12:52 PM
I'd say Federer, awesome against the big servers.
Lopez seems a strange option considering he lost some 30-odd points on Federer's serve at the US this year.

Henry Chinaski
10-16-2007, 01:14 PM
this dude included lopez because either:

a. he misheard a commentator say that federer described lopez as the best returner in the game
b. the commentator misread his notes and did actually say that (he was discussing lopez v ferrer at the time I believe)
c. federer did really say that and was being sarcastic
d. federer did really say that and is fucking deluded

ASP0315
10-16-2007, 01:15 PM
why did andy roddick and feliciano lopez on the list. :haha:

ReturnWinner
10-16-2007, 01:17 PM
why did andy roddick and feliciano lopez on the list. :haha:

a disgusting joke

lorenz
10-16-2007, 01:39 PM
I voted for Nalby, but nowadays he is not !! what a pitty

Mateya
10-16-2007, 01:41 PM
Hmmm, Nalbandian would deserve some votes. :confused:

Lopez and Roddick :haha:

Fed, Ferrer and Davydenko for me.

Nacho
10-16-2007, 02:26 PM
Judging by the stats, gotta go with Ferrer, followed by Nadal, Monaco & Davydenko

POINTS WON RETURNING 1ST SERVE %
1. Davydenko, Nikolay 35
2. Nadal, Rafael 35
3. Ferrer, David 35
4. Federer, Roger 35
5. Gasquet, Richard 34
6. Murray, Andy 34
7. Volandri, Filippo 34
8. Djokovic, Novak 33
9. Robredo, Tommy 33
10. Chela, Juan Ignacio

BREAK POINTS CONVERTED %
1. Ferrer, David 49
2. Monaco, Juan 49
3. Simon, Gilles 48
4. Hewitt, Lleyton 48
5. Volandri, Filippo 48
6. Robredo, Tommy 47
7. Gasquet, Richard 46
8. Canas, Guillermo 46
9. Del Potro, Juan Martin 46
10. Seppi, Andreas 46

POINTS WON RETURNING 2ND SERVE %
1. Ferrer, David 57
2. Nadal, Rafael 55
3. Monaco, Juan 55
4. Murray, Andy 55
5. Djokovic, Novak 54
6. Davydenko, Nikolay 54
7. Robredo, Tommy 54
8. Blake, James 54
9. Nieminen, Jarkko 54
10. Mathieu, Paul-Henri 53

RETURN GAMES WON %
1. Ferrer, David 37
2. Nadal, Rafael 34
3. Monaco, Juan 32
4. Murray, Andy 32
5. Davydenko, Nikolay 31
6. Volandri, Filippo 31
7. Djokovic, Novak 30
8. Robredo, Tommy 30
9. Gasquet, Richard 30
10. Federer, Roger 29

Jaap
10-16-2007, 02:35 PM
Murray would have been near the top of them stats tables if he played a full clay season.

kobulingam
10-16-2007, 02:37 PM
David Ferrer.

Compare how Ferrer returns Nadal's serve to how Federer does.

zcess81
10-16-2007, 02:41 PM
Murray would have been near the top of them stats tables if he played a full clay season.

To be honest, in the question I posted I should have specified that by "the best returner" I meant the best returner on HEARD COURTS. Clay does not really count:) Due to very slow conditions most of the serves on clay are returned, so it's not a fair indicator of ones ability to return serve.

However, on the fast hard courts returning serves, now that's a skill!

tangerine_dream
10-16-2007, 02:42 PM
as for Roddick...I had an extra line to fill:)
Should've used Blake then. His returns are flashier than Roddick's.

MisterQ
10-16-2007, 02:45 PM
Should've used Blake then. His returns are flashier than Roddick's.

Yes, for aggressive returns, Blake should probably be an option.

The percentages don't always work out for him... but he does go after the return as a weapon.

zcess81
10-16-2007, 02:46 PM
Should've used Blake then. His returns are flashier than Roddick's.

you're probably right:)

seljanin
10-16-2007, 03:03 PM
I'd say Federer, awesome against the big servers.
Lopez seems a strange option considering he lost some 30-odd points on Federer's serve at the US this year.

Yeah, if I remember correctly Federer won 35 (!!!) points on his serve in a row against Lopez :D So, the option of having FeLo in this poll is... well... weird to say at least. If we had a poll of worst returner of top-100, FeLo would definitely fit well enough there :)

zcess81
10-16-2007, 03:12 PM
Yeah, if I remember correctly Federer won 35 (!!!) points on his serve in a row against Lopez :D So, the option of having FeLo in this poll is... well... weird to say at least. If we had a poll of worst returner of top-100, FeLo would definitely fit well enough there :)

I don't know the stats, so you're gonna have to do the research yourself. I would have never put him on the list if not for the commentators during Lopez match last night, in which they claimed that the stats support Federer's claim (Federer apparently said that he considers Lopez the best returner in the world, so go figure) that he's one of the best returners on the tour. Armed with that information I thought that there was something about Lopez I didn't know, so I had to put him on the list. :)

Apemant
10-16-2007, 03:15 PM
Judging by the stats, gotta go with Ferrer, followed by Nadal, Monaco & Davydenko

Not Nadal, his percentage is obviously inflated due to great many clay matches he played. 1st serve is much less an issue on clay, and whoever wins a lot of matches (due to great clay rallying skills) will have unrealistic percentages. Nadal's percentages are also inflated in serving categories. From those percentages one might come to the conclusion that his serve is big. 'Cause he has won just a tad less points on his 1st serve than Karlovic ;)


This applies to a lesser extent to Ferrer as well. Check the numbers:

Ferrer played 29 out of his 74 matches, on clay. That's about 39%.
Nadal played 32 out of his 73 matches, on clay, about 44%.

Even Federer had relatively high % of clay matches. 19/60 ~ 32%

But Murray only played 2/46 ~ 4% matches on clay. Since he's still up high there at 34% points won off of 1st serve, I guess it is a strong argument that he in fact returns 1st serves better than anyone.

Apemant
10-16-2007, 03:20 PM
David Ferrer.

Compare how Ferrer returns Nadal's serve to how Federer does.

Federer's return is rigged for blocking high-speed 1st serves, at least on his BH side. A relatively slow, heavily spinned lefty 1st serves, the kind of what Nadal feeds him all the time, give him nightmares. Has no time for a full backswing, and just blocking them give Nadal some great opportunities to kill them from the middle of the field, where they usually tend to land.

I'd say a fully fit Nalbandian would in turn give nightmares to Nadal, returning his serves with great aggression esp on BH side, the one which Nadal usually aims.

KitinovRules
10-16-2007, 03:23 PM
Healthy and in form Ancic has a decent return. Maybe he is not good as Agassi was, but I would still consider him among top10 returners.

Nalbandian if in form is a damn good returner. Especially of kicks on his backhand and very high bounces.

Apemant
10-16-2007, 03:24 PM
I don't know the stats, so you're gonna have to do the research yourself. I would have never put him on the list if not for the commentators during Lopez match last night, in which they claimed that the stats support Federer's claim (Federer apparently said that he considers Lopez the best returner in the world, so go figure) that he's one of the best returners on the tour. Armed with that information I thought that there was something about Lopez I didn't know, so I had to put him on the list. :)

Ok, now you know better.... first, don't ever trust what you hear from commentators, they often don't know first thing about tennis. They probably meant Ferrer, 'cause Federer did say that about him, but Lopez? No way in hell, hehehe.

And how on earth did they confuse Lopez with Ferrer? :confused: Both Spaniards? :rolleyes:

zcess81
10-16-2007, 03:28 PM
Ok, now you know better.... first, don't ever trust what you hear from commentators, they often don't know first thing about tennis. They probably meant Ferrer, 'cause Federer did say that about him, but Lopez? No way in hell, hehehe.

And how on earth did they confuse Lopez with Ferrer? :confused: Both Spaniards? :rolleyes:

the thing is they DID NOT confuse Lopez with Ferrer, they even mentioned Ferrer and how Federer thinks that he's one of the best returners, but then they SAID THE FEDERER SAID THAT LOPEZ IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD. Maybe, like one of the users on this forum said before, Federer's been smoking something :shrug:

Apemant
10-16-2007, 03:40 PM
the thing is they DID NOT confuse Lopez with Ferrer, they even mentioned Ferrer and how Federer thinks that he's one of the best returners, but then they SAID THE FEDERER SAID THAT LOPEZ IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD. Maybe, like one of the users on this forum said before, Federer's been smoking something :shrug:

:haha:
Did they really say that?? OMG :eek:

I can't believe Fed would say that seriously... if he said it at all. But if he did, it must have been tongue-in-cheek, since he's well aware of his 35-points streak vs. Lopez himself. So saying that he's the best returner would be sort of 'look what I've done to the 'best' returner in the world, LOL'.

Federer is actually quite a funny guy once he takes off his mask of coolness he sports on the court.

zcess81
10-16-2007, 03:47 PM
:haha:
Did they really say that?? OMG :eek:

I can't believe Fed would say that seriously... if he said it at all. But if he did, it must have been tongue-in-cheek, since he's well aware of his 35-points streak vs. Lopez himself. So saying that he's the best returner would be sort of 'look what I've done to the 'best' returner in the world, LOL'.

Federer is actually quite a funny guy once he takes off his mask of coolness he sports on the court.

you might have a point there.

ReturnWinner
10-16-2007, 03:52 PM
:haha:
Did they really say that?? OMG :eek:

I can't believe Fed would say that seriously... if he said it at all. But if he did, it must have been tongue-in-cheek, since he's well aware of his 35-points streak vs. Lopez himself. So saying that he's the best returner would be sort of 'look what I've done to the 'best' returner in the world, LOL'.

Federer is actually quite a funny guy once he takes off his mask of coolness he sports on the court.

likely he made a mistake, he did mean he is one of the best servers, bah that makes more sense

RagingLamb
10-16-2007, 03:54 PM
Judging by the stats, gotta go with Ferrer, followed by Nadal, Monaco & Davydenko

POINTS WON RETURNING 1ST SERVE %
1. Davydenko, Nikolay 35
2. Nadal, Rafael 35
3. Ferrer, David 35
4. Federer, Roger 35
5. Gasquet, Richard 34
6. Murray, Andy 34
7. Volandri, Filippo 34
8. Djokovic, Novak 33
9. Robredo, Tommy 33
10. Chela, Juan Ignacio

BREAK POINTS CONVERTED %
1. Ferrer, David 49
2. Monaco, Juan 49
3. Simon, Gilles 48
4. Hewitt, Lleyton 48
5. Volandri, Filippo 48
6. Robredo, Tommy 47
7. Gasquet, Richard 46
8. Canas, Guillermo 46
9. Del Potro, Juan Martin 46
10. Seppi, Andreas 46

POINTS WON RETURNING 2ND SERVE %
1. Ferrer, David 57
2. Nadal, Rafael 55
3. Monaco, Juan 55
4. Murray, Andy 55
5. Djokovic, Novak 54
6. Davydenko, Nikolay 54
7. Robredo, Tommy 54
8. Blake, James 54
9. Nieminen, Jarkko 54
10. Mathieu, Paul-Henri 53

RETURN GAMES WON %
1. Ferrer, David 37
2. Nadal, Rafael 34
3. Monaco, Juan 32
4. Murray, Andy 32
5. Davydenko, Nikolay 31
6. Volandri, Filippo 31
7. Djokovic, Novak 30
8. Robredo, Tommy 30
9. Gasquet, Richard 30
10. Federer, Roger 29

thanks for posting. I picked Federer, but that's clearly not what the stats say.

Apemant
10-16-2007, 04:08 PM
likely he made a mistake, he did mean he is one of the best servers, bah that makes more sense

Actually yes, this is the most likely explanation. They often make such mistakes during press conferences. So he probably wanted to point out how nasty a server Lopez is, and it just turned out that way, i.e. completely wrong.

And comentators, as usually, trusting Roger's words more than their own eyes, heh

R.Federer
10-16-2007, 04:25 PM
What are the stats on who gets aced/unreturned serves LEAST? That would be most relevant.

Judging by the stats, gotta go with Ferrer, followed by Nadal, Monaco & Davydenko

POINTS WON RETURNING 1ST SERVE %
1. Davydenko, Nikolay 35
2. Nadal, Rafael 35
3. Ferrer, David 35
4. Federer, Roger 35
5. Gasquet, Richard 34
6. Murray, Andy 34
7. Volandri, Filippo 34
8. Djokovic, Novak 33
9. Robredo, Tommy 33
10. Chela, Juan Ignacio

BREAK POINTS CONVERTED %
1. Ferrer, David 49
2. Monaco, Juan 49
3. Simon, Gilles 48
4. Hewitt, Lleyton 48
5. Volandri, Filippo 48
6. Robredo, Tommy 47
7. Gasquet, Richard 46
8. Canas, Guillermo 46
9. Del Potro, Juan Martin 46
10. Seppi, Andreas 46

POINTS WON RETURNING 2ND SERVE %
1. Ferrer, David 57
2. Nadal, Rafael 55
3. Monaco, Juan 55
4. Murray, Andy 55
5. Djokovic, Novak 54
6. Davydenko, Nikolay 54
7. Robredo, Tommy 54
8. Blake, James 54
9. Nieminen, Jarkko 54
10. Mathieu, Paul-Henri 53

RETURN GAMES WON %
1. Ferrer, David 37
2. Nadal, Rafael 34
3. Monaco, Juan 32
4. Murray, Andy 32
5. Davydenko, Nikolay 31
6. Volandri, Filippo 31
7. Djokovic, Novak 30
8. Robredo, Tommy 30
9. Gasquet, Richard 30
10. Federer, Roger 29

Apemant
10-16-2007, 04:58 PM
What are the stats on who gets aced/unreturned serves LEAST? That would be most relevant.

Don't think they hold such records, sadly.

Yes, a % of returned serves would be a great stat. Just how many of them you get back into play.

Although it's not the whole story again. Some people might just want to go for broke, i.e. either push the server really hard, or otherwise make an error. As opposed to giving them back a weak ball so they can put it away easily & thus boost their confidence. But when you go for broke, some ppl tend to tighten a bit. It's a different philosophy and stats alone can't show you that.

So in the end you just have to trust your own eyes, after you take all the stats into consideration. And I feel Murray is the best at returning 1st serves. Federer is also great, but he seems to be comparatively better at really fast serves and not so good (comparatively to other great returners) with average ones, strangely enough.

stebs
10-16-2007, 05:32 PM
1st Serve Return

1 - Federer
2 - Ferrer
3 - Murray

2nd Serve Return

1 - Davyenko
2 - Ferrer
3 - Murray

Overall Serve Return

1 - Ferrer
2 - Murray
3 - Federer

Apemant
10-16-2007, 05:35 PM
I did some more math, and this year, Federer won 421/1085 ~ 39% returning 1st serves in his clay matches, while Nadal won 566/1386 ~ 41% of those. That's well above their total % of points won returning 1st serve, so both of their averages are somewhat inflated considering it's much easier to return 1st serves on clay.

With some rude math (I'm too lazy to count all their non-clay matches),

41% * 44% + x * 56% = 35% (Nadal)
39% * 32% + x * 68% = 35% (Federer)

gives that Nadal won like 30% points returning 1st serves off clay, while Fed won like 33%. Of course, this is mathematically totally incorrect since I'm multiplying percentages of points by percentages of matches :devil: but like I said, I'm too lazy.

Most other ppl have their 1st serve returning percentages inflated by clay matches, including Davy and Ferrer - except, as I said earlier, Murray. Whose 34% comes almost completely off-clay.