Nadal & Djokovic [warriors] vs Gasquet & Murray [tankers]#~status-quo? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal & Djokovic [warriors] vs Gasquet & Murray [tankers]#~status-quo?

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 03:51 PM
#########
*********

RAFA Nadal
12 big titles
finals won/lost: 23/5 = 82%

NOLE Djokovic
2 big titles
finals won/lost: 6/3 = 67%

____________________________
RICHIE Gasquet
0 big titles
finals won/lost: 5/5 = 50%

ANDY Murray
0 big titles
finals won/lost: 2/4 = 33%



~~~do you guys/gals agree with me that these 4-players can basically be divided into two groups now: warriors vs. chokers:confused: :confused:

scoobs
10-07-2007, 03:52 PM
I don't know.

But you can be sure that, until the end of time, stupid threads will continue.

It's quite a comforting thought, actually.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 03:55 PM
We already have a thread on these groups of youngsters.

stebs
10-07-2007, 04:01 PM
Wait and see. You don't class players as chokers when they are still 21 and especially when you look at Murray he doesn't really have that much of a history of choking and you are confusing the term choking with big match play and they are different things.

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 04:07 PM
Wait and see. You don't class players as chokers when they are still 21 and especially when you look at Murray he doesn't really have that much of a history of choking and you are confusing the term choking with big match play and they are different things.


Murray choked away a few matches...
06 Washington final [vs. Clement]
07 Doha final [vs. Ljubicic]
07 AO Rd.4 [vs. Nadal]
07 Metz final [vs. Robredo]


***anyway in the thread title I asked the question "will it continue..?" [of course i know he`s young];)

gulzhan
10-07-2007, 04:08 PM
Neither Gasquet, nor Murray are chokers... They might be tankers though :tape: :lol:

I'd say it's the opposite-- when Richie starts winning, he plays better :p No matter how much I dislike Murray, he is a fighter in my opinion :shrug: Just bad temper and ugly behavior :eek:

As to numbers... well, all children grow up differently ;) :lol:

Adler
10-07-2007, 04:09 PM
Why calling Nadal and Djokovic warriors while Gasquet and Murray - chokers? Nadal also lost a match holding matchpoint :shrug:

stebs
10-07-2007, 04:11 PM
Murray choked away a few matches...
06 Washington final [vs. Clement]
07 Doha final [vs. Ljubicic]
07 AO Rd.4 [vs. Nadal]
07 Metz final [vs. Robredo]


***anyway in the thread title I asked the question "will it continue..?" [of course i know he`s young];)

Almost all players that don't have big serves end up losing a lot of matches from in front because when their level drops they fall away and for the record how did Murray choke against Robredo? His level dropped and he lost, he didn't choke. Nor did he choke against Clement, he lost to a better player on the day. Your arguments seem random, nonsensical and most of these threads are knee-jerk rubbish. Learn what a choke is and then start talking about it.

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 04:12 PM
Why calling Nadal and Djokovic warriors while Gasquet and Murray - chokers? Nadal also lost a match holding matchpoint :shrug:


Nadal wouldn`t lose finals to the likes of Robredo, Clement, Ljubicic;)

KaxMisha
10-07-2007, 04:12 PM
Murray choked away a few matches...
06 Washington final [vs. Clement]
07 Doha final [vs. Ljubicic]
07 AO Rd.4 [vs. Nadal]
07 Metz final [vs. Robredo]


***anyway in the thread title I asked the question "will it continue..?" [of course i know he`s young];)

What the fuck? How was that match a choke? Unless all losses are chokes -and they're not -, you have no valid point (and you don't!). :retard:

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-07-2007, 04:13 PM
Why calling Nadal and Djokovic warriors while Gasquet and Murray - chokers? Nadal also lost a match holding matchpoint :shrug:

Murray and Gasquet haven't won any big titles.

Nadal has won countless. Djokovic won 2 this year.

So you tell me who are the champs and who are the chumps.

KaxMisha
10-07-2007, 04:14 PM
Almost all players that don't have big serves end up losing a lot of matches from in front because when their level drops they fall away and for the record how did Murray choke against Robredo? His level dropped and he lost, he didn't choke. Nor did he choke against Clement, he lost to a better player on the day. Your arguments seem random, nonsensical and most of these threads are knee-jerk rubbish. Learn what a choke is and then start talking about it.

Word! :worship:

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 04:14 PM
Murray didn't choke or has choked in any of the finals he has lost. Momentum shifts happen in tennis and will continue to do so.

Difference between outplayed and clear choking. Another one who doesn't know the meaning of the word choke.

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 04:15 PM
Murray and Gasquet haven't won any big titles.

Nadal has won countless. Djokovic won 2 this year.

So you tell me who are the champs and who are the chumps.


thanks mate:cool:
atleast someone else understands my perfectly obvious point;)

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 04:17 PM
Murray didn't choke or has choked in any of the finals he has lost. Momentum shifts happen in tennis and will continue to do so.

Difference between outplayed and clear choking. Another one who doesn't know the meaning of the word choke.


okie dokies
we`re talking semantics here:rolleyes:
anyway i`ll change the title of the thread from `chokers` to `tankers`~ still the message is the same;)

stebs
10-07-2007, 04:18 PM
Nadal wouldn`t lose finals to the likes of Robredo, Clement, Ljubicic;)

Are you crazy?

Nadal is better than Murray. I mean I could equally say that Nadal wouldn't lose to Davydenko or Djokovic on clay and it's true but does that mean Murray is a choker if he DOES lose to them?

Oh, and for the record Clement beat Nadal last year in a semi-final and Ljubicic was two points away from beating Nadal in front of his home crowd in Madrid.

It seems Hewitt having a couple of odd losses has sent you mad Cmon, I suggest you stop typing and start thinking because every post has more BS right now and you are sounding ridiculous.

stebs
10-07-2007, 04:21 PM
okie dokies
we`re talking semantics here:rolleyes:
anyway i`ll change the title of the thread from `chokers` to `tankers`~ still the message is the same;)

Momentum shift isn't a choke and it isn't a tank. Can't you see how stupid you are being when the only person to agree with you on this one is RFK?

scoobs
10-07-2007, 04:23 PM
Are you crazy?

Nadal is better than Murray. I mean I could equally say that Nadal wouldn't lose to Davydenko or Djokovic on clay and it's true but does that mean Murray is a choker if he DOES lose to them?

Oh, and for the record Clement beat Nadal last year in a semi-final and Ljubicic was two points away from beating Nadal in front of his home crowd in Madrid.

It seems Hewitt having a couple of odd losses has sent you mad Cmon, I suggest you stop typing and start thinking because every post has more BS right now and you are sounding ridiculous.
I preferred him yesterday when he was having a crisis of faith and jumping off the Hewitt bandwagon like a true deserter.

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 04:25 PM
Momentum shift isn't a choke and it isn't a tank. Can't you see how stupid you are being when the only person to agree with you on this one is RFK?


**you`re really on my case aren`t you:sad:
...
lets look at my so called outlandish statements:

1. Ferrer has qualified for TMC [fact]!;)
2. Hewitt should consider retiring if his form doesn`t pick up by AO next year:sad:
3. Nadal & Djokovic are warriors:devil:
4. Murray & Gasquet are tankers:p

....
more than a few people would agree with me on all my points;)

scoobs
10-07-2007, 04:29 PM
You may well find a few idiots to echo you sycophantically but that doesn't actually make you right [fact]!:sad:

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 04:29 PM
okie dokies
we`re talking semantics here:rolleyes:
anyway i`ll change the title of the thread from `chokers` to `tankers`~ still the message is the same;)

It's not a question of semantics at all. Gasquet and Murray didn't tank nor did they choke. It's a deliberate misuse of the word.

I am a Gaudio fan I know what a quality tank is.

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-07-2007, 04:32 PM
thanks mate:cool:
atleast someone else understands my perfectly obvious point;)

Dont expect much out of MTF man.

Most people here are Fedtards who really dont get tennis and are pretty much devoid of any logic.

The smart people get you and that is all that matters. Let the dumb ones like Stebs stay in the darkness.

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 04:33 PM
It's not a question of semantics at all. Gasquet and Murray didn't tank nor did they choke. It's a deliberate misuse of the word.

I am a Gaudio fan I know what a quality tank is.

;)
good point, if Gaudio is a tanker then Murray & Gasquet can`t be~~ since the latter 2 will never come close to slam glory:devil:

seriously though i`m a Gaudio fan too~~ it`s amazing how one of the all time biggest tankers managed to get his shit together & take out Hewitt, Nalbandian & Coria in successive matches to win the whole thing @ FO 04:worship:
of course Coria`s major choke job helped a little:eek:

stebs
10-07-2007, 04:34 PM
**you`re really on my case aren`t you:sad:
...
lets look at my so called outlandish statements:

1. Ferrer has qualified for TMC [fact]!;)
2. Hewitt should consider retiring if his form doesn`t pick up by AO next year:sad:
3. Nadal & Djokovic are warriors:devil:
4. Murray & Gasquet are tankers:p

....
more than a few people would agree with me on all my points;)

You have got #1 wrong. What you stated was that Ferrer was now mathematically safe which is always used to mean it is now mathematically impossible for him to miss out and it's just total rubbish. You made it up and posted for reasons unknown to me.

#2. Well yes this is what you wrote and yes it's a load of rubbish. Stick with your guy and just accept that all things come to pass and one day Federer will get beaten in the 1st round of a slam to some guy nobody's heard of and you won't see me telling him to retire unless he's ready and I don't recall GWH or I egging on the Gaudio retirement rumours just because he's losing 0 and 1 in challengers.

#3. I never denied it.

#4. well actually I was picking on the exampels which you used and I see you don't defend yourself so I assume you accept that was total bollocks right? Yes, this is a load of rubbish and Murray is not a choker just because he is a great returner with a game which tends to be streaky meaning his matches have momentum shifts doesn't make him a choker and I suppose you think he choked when he lost in straights to Federer in Bangkok '05 do you? It seems any player losing any final is a choke to you or a takn or whatever. The word you are looking for is a loss, deal with it and move on.

stebs
10-07-2007, 04:35 PM
Dont expect much out of MTF man.

Most people here are Fedtards who really dont get tennis and are pretty much devoid of any logic.

The smart people get you and that is all that matters. Let the dumb ones like Stebs stay in the darkness.

Whether I'm in the darkness or not I am surely happy to be as far away from you as I possibly can be.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 04:44 PM
;)
good point, if Gaudio is a tanker then Murray & Gasquet can`t be~~ since the latter 2 will never come close to slam glory:devil:

seriously though i`m a Gaudio fan too~~ it`s amazing how one of the all time biggest tankers managed to get his shit together & take out Hewitt, Nalbandian & Coria in successive matches to win the whole thing @ FO 04:worship:
of course Coria`s major choke job helped a little:eek:

You see I am not going to desert Gaudio at all cause he was getting donkey punched by guys who should be cleaning his shoes. The thought of that is getting off them cause they lose sucks.

Of course as most people do, they forget Gaudio shat his pants for the first 90 minutes and the first 2 sets were over then. Miss the fact that Gaudio's improved play in the 3rd set was a factor in helping Coria's nerve break down.

Black Adam
10-07-2007, 06:32 PM
:haha: Funny Story this Cmon Aussie.

When things aren't going well enough for you to camp in Hewitt's ass and big him up, you decide to get out and entertain as Captain Obvious. Nadal and Djokovic are tough fighters and achievers whilst Gasquet, Murray and add in Berdych, are famous chokers, mental midgets and won't achieve what they could with their talent because the wiring upstairs is quite loose.

This all known and has been discussed for quite some time now. Though you are a good boy, for preaching the truth.

R.Federer
10-07-2007, 06:45 PM
#########
*********

NOLE Djokovic
2 big titles
finals won/lost: 6/3 = 67%


~~~do you guys/gals agree with me that these 4-players can basically be divided into two groups now: warriors vs. chokers:confused: :confused:

What "warrior"? Didn't he retire in TWO grand slam semis?? What kind of definition warrior fits that? He sure did battle through his aches and pains to get through those two .... NOT. He took the easier way out :rolleyes:

I think you are looking for a word distinct from warrior.

l_mac
10-07-2007, 08:14 PM
Ugh. My least favourite type of thread - one which links Nadal and Nole.

All your stats really say is that Nadal has played a lot of finals for someome his age, and that he has a great winning record. Djoko, Murray and Gasquet's results aren't comparable other than to highlight how they are light years behind Nadal in terms of accomplishment at this stage of their careers.

guy in sf
10-07-2007, 10:44 PM
When Gasquet and Murray win a tournament or a good match, the player they beat is not a good player or the tournament is Mickey Mouse. When they lose, they automatically tank. Pretty stupid thread CmonAussie!

Andi-M
10-07-2007, 11:18 PM
Djokovic had his breakthrough this year...Murray has been injured best part of this season so can hardly expect him to be winning AMS's and GS he can not be judged on one bad performance against Boredo today.

You can judge Murray at the end of the 2008 season if he still has no big titles and poor performances in finals maybe your statement will have a bit more weighting.

Gasquet i believe is somewhat of a overhyped Federer wannabee but i say you still have to give him more time too.

Theres also the fact that maybe Djokovic and Nadal are just better???...I dunno i think murray is just as good but he might not be i guess??

Allure
10-07-2007, 11:30 PM
Djokovic had his breakthrough this year...Murray has been injured best part of this season so can hardly expect him to be winning AMS's and GS he can not be judged on one bad performance against Boredo today.

You can judge Murray at the end of the 2008 season if he still has no big titles and poor performances in finals maybe your statement will have a bit more weighting.

Gasquet i believe is somewhat of a overhyped Federer wannabee but i say you still have to give him more time too.

Theres also the fact that maybe Djokovic and Nadal are just better???...I dunno i think murray is just as good but he might not be i guess??

Do you know anything about tennis?

cmurray
10-07-2007, 11:35 PM
I'd like to know why ever single one of C'mon Aussie's threads have to be

**~~~~*&%$##!((*&???type silly question here**~~!~@$&$$*!"?

CmonAussie
10-08-2007, 12:37 AM
Djokovic had his breakthrough this year...Murray has been injured best part of this season so can hardly expect him to be winning AMS's and GS he can not be judged on one bad performance against Boredo today.

You can judge Murray at the end of the 2008 season if he still has no big titles and poor performances in finals maybe your statement will have a bit more weighting.

Gasquet i believe is somewhat of a overhyped Federer wannabee but i say you still have to give him more time too.

Theres also the fact that maybe Djokovic and Nadal are just better???...I dunno i think murray is just as good but he might not be i guess??



okie dokes well wait & see what happens with Murray & review his case @ the end of 2008;)
...
##BTW i think it`s funny how your name is `I_Like_Murray` but you use Djokovic`s photo:confused:

Andi-M
10-08-2007, 01:04 AM
okie dokes well wait & see what happens with Murray & review his case @ the end of 2008;)
...
##BTW i think it`s funny how your name is `I_Like_Murray` but you use Djokovic`s photo:confused:


lol 'I_Like_Djokovic' too! Murray is my no 1 and Nole my no 2 but he's better eye candy... so :p

guy in sf
10-08-2007, 01:30 AM
Dont expect much out of MTF man.

Most people here are Fedtards who really dont get tennis and are pretty much devoid of any logic.

The smart people get you and that is all that matters. Let the dumb ones like Stebs stay in the darkness.

Rafa=Fed Killa saying that most people here are pretty much devoid of any logic is like a hippo calling a greyhound dog fat.

HarryMan
10-08-2007, 08:42 AM
Sorry Mate ,It seems too premature to judge some talents and group them into categories when all of them are only around 21.

Having said that ,I think its unfair to compare Gasquet,Murray and even Djokovic to someone who has already won 3 slam titles and has 9 masters series shields to his name ,Nadal has definitely seperated himself from the rest of them.

Now Djokovic is clearly the leader of the remaining three because he has 2 MS shields to his name and also some excellent performances in the recent slams but If Murray could get his act together and get fitter and stronger he would be there around the top 4/5 in the next year challenging the top players ,maybe even for the slams .

So lets wait and see and we could judge them more accurately after say 4 to 5 years from now ...

CmonAussie
10-18-2007, 09:02 PM
BUMP
...
Murray could have defeated Nadal in straight sets today, especially the 2nd set leading 4-2 & 40-0... yet once again Andy chokes><!!
##
more evidence that Murray is a choker, whilst Nadal is the ultimate warrior<:)



PS. Murray should have taken out Nadal @ AO also [clearly it`s a mental issue]!!

trixtah
10-18-2007, 09:03 PM
BUMP
...
Murray could have defeated Nadal in straight sets today, especially the 2nd set leading 4-2 & 40-0... yet once again Andy chokes><!!
##
more evidence that Murray is a choker, whilst Nadal is the ultimate warrior<:)



PS. Murray should have taken out Nadal @ AO also [clearly it`s a mental issue]!!

More evidence that you're actually a retard. Please visit the victory thread. It was a fantastic match and it's obvious you only followed the livescores.

CmonAussie
10-18-2007, 09:05 PM
More evidence that you're actually a retard. Please visit the victory thread. It was a fantastic match and it's obvious you only followed the livescores.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
you can obviously observe my every movements:confused:

##actually i watched the match on TVU player;)

>>yes the tennis was great, but the fact that Murray choked is beyond dispute:p

Adler
10-18-2007, 09:06 PM
Less ~ and * - trend to cont? Would like that

And no, it's just matter of time when Murray will defeat Nadal. In Gasquet's case - god only knows

scoobs
10-18-2007, 09:07 PM
Ahhh...back in the land of retarded analysis.

trixtah
10-18-2007, 09:08 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
you can obviously observe my every movements:confused:

##actually i watched the match on TVU player;)

>>yes the tennis was great, but the fact that Murray choked is beyond dispute:p

This is the first time I've ever quoted/responded to you. Stop typing like a japanese schoolgirl*^~ and talk some sense.

CmonAussie
10-18-2007, 09:12 PM
This is the first time I've ever quoted/responded to you. Stop typing like a japanese schoolgirl*^~ and talk some sense.

:wavey:
how do you know that i`m not a japanese schoolgirl:confused:

infact i live in japan, so perhaps the local environment is affecting me*@@*:eek:

RagingLamb
10-18-2007, 09:38 PM
let's see how Murray develops.

He could turn into someone great, or he could turn into another Safin.

I think he's more likely to turn great, but we'll see.

leng jai
10-18-2007, 10:30 PM
I choke on a daily basis after reading another one of CmonAussie's faulty threads based on 2 seconds of thought and 0 seconds of logic.

scoobs
10-18-2007, 10:31 PM
I choke on a daily basis after reading another one of CmonAussie's faulty threads based on 2 seconds of thought and 0 seconds of logic.
2 seconds?

Little charitable there aren't you?

Merton
10-18-2007, 10:36 PM
Incorrect, harsh and premature for both Murray and Gasquet.

ChrisDoesDallas
10-18-2007, 11:04 PM
:tape:

Gasquet gets so much shit. I'm not sure why. He's obviously a huge talent and taken out some names before and shown incredible grit and determination. Once again, I cannot forget that fantastic USO 4R match between Gasquet and Hewitt. That was clutch, even if he lost.

And he's still young, although yes, not getting any younger. 2007 was not entirely convincing, particularly after a pretty fantastic 2006 in most regards. My same argument for Richard goes to Murray as well, give them some time. We can't all be Sampras and winning slams at age 19.

Sunset of Age
10-18-2007, 11:30 PM
What 'tanking' have Gasquet and Murray done recently?

Rather the contrary, especially in Murray's case - coming back so quickly from a severe injury, that's no little feat, and he's doing real well now. His loss to Rafa was no disgrace AT ALL.

CmonAussie
10-19-2007, 12:41 AM
let's see how Murray develops.

He could turn into someone great, or he could turn into another Safin.

I think he's more likely to turn great, but we'll see.


:rolleyes:
If Murray turns "into another Safin":devil: i think he`ll be very satisfied, & go down as the greatest British player in half a century;) ;)

Safin`s career is nothing to sneeze at:
*USO & AO champion
*twice AO runner up
*FO SFs & Wimby QFs
*5-Masters Series titles
*15-singles titles + 2-doubles
*briefly world #1
*clinched Davis Cup for Russia twice
...
~~
in fact if Murray achieves even half of what Safin did he`ll still be greater than Henman:eek:

RagingLamb
10-19-2007, 01:05 AM
:rolleyes:
If Murray turns "into another Safin":devil: i think he`ll be very satisfied, & go down as the greatest British player in half a century;) ;)

Safin`s career is nothing to sneeze at:
*USO & AO champion
*twice AO runner up
*FO SFs & Wimby QFs
*5-Masters Series titles
*15-singles titles + 2-doubles
*briefly world #1
*clinched Davis Cup for Russia twice
...
~~
in fact if Murray achieves even half of what Safin did he`ll still be greater than Henman:eek:


if you think Safin's achievements are pretty good given his talent, then sure.

But I think Safin was capable of more. Not a little more but a lot more.

And that's what I meant with that comment. "Another Safin" is a person who could have been more than what they actually became.

Anyhow, it's too soon to say anything about Murray.

p.s. what does this have to do with Henman?

CmonAussie
10-19-2007, 01:12 AM
if you think Safin's achievements are pretty good given his talent, then sure.

But I think Safin was capable of more. Not a little more but a lot more.

And that's what I meant with that comment. "Another Safin" is a person who could have been more than what they actually became.

Anyhow, it's too soon to say anything about Murray.

p.s. what does this have to do with Henman?


;)
as far as the British media are concerned Murray`s career will often be compared with Henman`s:eek:
for instance `Henman Hill` @ Wimbledon is now being referred to as `Murray`s Mound`:p

British sports fans are desperate for a champion tennis player, who can actually win slams, unlike the perenial SF specialist Henman!!
if Murray fails to win a slam in the next couple of years he`ll face increasing pressure & comparisons:sad:

World Beater
10-19-2007, 06:26 AM
gasquet and murray will be good players. I anticipate that murray will be better, but i expect gasquet to have a nice tenure in the top 10 as well.

RagingLamb
10-19-2007, 06:34 AM
;)
as far as the British media are concerned Murray`s career will often be compared with Henman`s:eek:
for instance `Henman Hill` @ Wimbledon is now being referred to as `Murray`s Mound`:p

British sports fans are desperate for a champion tennis player, who can actually win slams, unlike the perenial SF specialist Henman!!
if Murray fails to win a slam in the next couple of years he`ll face increasing pressure & comparisons:sad:

I understand henman and british hopes bla bla. But if I was Murray, equalling or surpassing Henman wouldn't be what I'd aim for.

richie21
10-19-2007, 10:53 AM
For the last time,Gasquet is not a tanker or a headcase!
There is just a big technical problem in his game which he still hasn't fixed and which prevents him to challenge for the top.
His physical fragility also doesn't help him(i heard he was once again injured this week?).
By the way,while we are also talking about Murray,it makes me really laugh that some of Gasquet's fans say that Murray's forehand is not better than Gasquet's forehand.....i watched his match against Nadal yesterday and believe me,i would be already VERY happy if Gasquet had the same forehand,let alone a better one.
Murray's forehand is perhaps his weakness but at least,it is a technically sound shot.

stebs
10-19-2007, 01:46 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
you can obviously observe my every movements:confused:

##actually i watched the match on TVU player;)

>>yes the tennis was great, but the fact that Murray choked is beyond dispute:p

It's beyond dispute if you don;t know what a choke is and obviously this goes for you.

CmonAussie
01-28-2008, 12:55 PM
.........
#@@#
<><><><><><><>^^<><><><><><><^^><><><><><><
........
08 AO was further proof of Djoko`s warrior mentality, versus the fragility of `Headcase` Gasquet, & Andy `Have a Cry` Murray!!

dmit424
01-28-2008, 01:09 PM
No, I don't know what your post is about. All four of these are great thinkers, and Nadal and Djokovic are simply more mature and mentally tough. It's not warriors vs. chokers, it's first-class players with complete games, mental and physical, versus second-level top players who are still maturing their games and mentality.