2009-the possible beginning of the end of men's tennis? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

2009-the possible beginning of the end of men's tennis?

sawan66278
10-06-2007, 08:39 PM
After reading this article about the changes in the men's game in 2009, am I the only one who feels this: confusion will reign supreme...leading to lack of interest...leading to ambivalence. Read...and ponder: a tour structure that makes the film Syriana look like The Cat in the Hat:

ATP Announces 500 Series Tournaments

By Richard Pagliaro
10/05/2007

Tennis is a numbers game and the ATP is aiming to elevate its numbers with declarative digits. The ATP is assigning numerical names to its tournaments and believes the new classification will create both a streamlined schedule and an enhanced bottom line starting in 2009.

The ATP announced today 10 cities that have been awarded "500" status for the new-look 2009 ATP Tour. The 10 are Rotterdam, Dubai, Acapulco, Memphis, Barcelona, Washington DC, Beijing, Tokyo, Basel and Valencia.

Offering 500 points for each champion, the "500" tournaments will create "a global standard tier of premium tournaments and ensure a stronger broadcast and sponsor proposition from 2009," the ATP said in a statement. The 10 cities announced today are set to make a financial commitment to the Tour of $20.7 million from 2009, an increase in prize money of 118 percent over 2008 for these events, according to the ATP.

Designed to complement the nine "1000" events, which are now known as the Masters Series, and ATP World Tour Finals in London (which is currently called the Tennis Masters Cup and is presently contested in Shanghai), the "500s" will be backed by a top player commitment to play four a year, including one "500" event each season after the U.S. Open.

Asked how the ATP plans to enforce that player commitment, an ATP spokesman told Tennis Week today: "The players will need to play four of the 500 events for ranking purposes. Not doing so will result in zero pointers for each one missed."

Starting in 2009, the ATP will no longer use the term "Masters Series" to characterize its top tier events. Instead, those nine tournaments will be labeled "1000" events, signifying the points earned by tournament winners. The nine "1000" events that will replace the Masters Series will be: Indian Wells; Miami; Rome; Madrid; Toronto/ Montreal; Cincinnati; Shanghai and Paris. Monte Carlo will also have 1000 status but will not have the same mandatory player commitment as the other nine.

The rebranding effort marks the latest marketing change for the collection of tournaments once known as "The Super Nine" before they were renamed "Masters Series." The Masters Series was created when the ATP signed a 10-year, $1.2 billion deal in 1998-99 with the Swiss sports company ISL (International Sports & Leisure) for exclusive marketing rights of that Series, but that deal proved to be disastrous as ISL was unable to meet its anticipated sponsorship sales and ultimately filed for bankruptcy in 2001 leaving many Masters Series events scrambling to procure individual sponsorship deals and the Tour searching for the most effective way to package, promote and sell its most prestigious tournaments.

This latest renaming is the Tour's effort to redefine itself. One crucial element in that aim is broadcast accessibility of its tournaments for fans. To that end, an ATP spokesman told Tennis Week today that starting in 2009 the 10 "500" tournaments will be available on ATP.TV, which currently streams Masters Series events over the Internet.

The 2009 ATP Tour will feature an Asian swing of three weeks starting after the completion of the U.S. Open in September that will showcase top players at new tournaments — "Shanghai 1000", and the Tokyo and Beijing "500’s". This will be followed by an enhanced European indoor swing comprising of two new "500" events in Valencia and Basel as well as the Paris "1000", which is currently the BNP Paribas Masters (Paris Indoors). The swing, and season, will conclude at the 2009 season-ending ATP World Tour Finals in London’s O2 Arena.

Hamburg, which filed anti-trust lawsuit against the ATP in a U.S. Federal District Court in April in an effort to preserve its current Masters Series status, has been reserved a "500" level week though its litigation against the ATP "is ongoing" the ATP told Tennis Week.

Monte-Carlo reached an out-of-court settlement in the tournament's anti-trust lawsuit against the ATP in July. Under terms of that agreement, Monte Carlo has dropped its lawsuit against the ATP and will retain its Masters Series status, but lose the player commitment requirement of other Masters Series events starting in 2009.

In announcing the 10 host sites for its "500" series, the ATP touts the "500" tournaments alone will bring over $200 million of facility investment into new stadia builds at Acapulco, Beijing and Valencia; as well as existing facility upgrades in Barcelona, Rotterdam, Dubai and Memphis" and a "$600 million investment into upgrades and new facilities via the “1000” tournaments."

The facility upgrades and new stadia combined with what the ATP claims is "$200 million of committed marketing support, prize money and other investments" leaves tour execs excited by the prospect of a 10-figure "$1 billion" investment into men’s tennis from 2009. If those numbers are accurate — and the ATP did not provided specifics in today's release — it would be quite a coup for a Tour which will lose leading sponsor Mercedes-Benz, when it's current three-year sponsorship pact concludes on Dec. 31, 2008.

Without specific documentation of the new stadia and planned upgrades its difficult to quantify the validity of the numbers the ATP presents, however if the men's circuit can enforce its promise for mandatory annual player participation at four "500" events, including one post-U.S. Open "500" it will be a positive step for a Tour that has seen several top players, including Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic and Andy Roddick pull out of tournaments in recent weeks.

Since assuming his post, ATP Executive Chairman and President Etienne de Villiers has said streamlining the ATP schedule to create a more cohesive collection of tournaments around the four Grand Slam tournaments and the ATP season-ending Tennis Masters Cup to create a healthier schedule for players and a more attractive package for sponsors and broadcast partners is his primary aim.

If the investment in men's tennis in the form of facility upgrades is accurate then the tournaments will be doing their part in contributing to the new-look Tour in 2009. In order for tennis' television audience to grow — which is imperative in persuading sponsors to reach into their pockets and buy commercial time during tennis telecasts — the game's governing bodies must be willing to create a cohesive, understandable schedule that builds audience attention toward the four primary peaks that are the Grand Slam tournaments while retaining the value in of the "1000" and "500" events that will form foundation of the Tour.

"The changes we are undertaking represent the biggest shake up of the ATP Tour since its inception but reflect a true appetite for the sport in emerging and key markets; as well as an expression of ambition and confidence in the future. In total more than $1 billion of added capital and increases in tournament ‘on site financial’ commitments will be made," said Etienne de Villiers, Executive Chairman of the ATP. "Our objective has been to provide a Tour structure that tells the best story of our global circuit. We need to have the best players playing in the best stadia, in the best markets at the right time. Our players, fans, tournaments and sponsors deserve a world class Tour and that is what we will be giving them in 2009."

The questions remain: can the ATP enforce player participation to create the competitive climate and consistent rivalries vital to the sport's popularity? And will the Tour be able to sell the restructured circuit to sponsors and broadcast partners? Answering those questions will ultimately determine how much value will accompany the ATP's new numbers.

One other question: who in the world proposed this theatre of the absurd?

Marek.
10-06-2007, 08:53 PM
Yeah, 2009 is starting to look like a joke year. Hopefully 2008 will be great.

FedFan_2007
10-06-2007, 08:55 PM
Believe me, these 2009 changes will NOT happen. I lay my foot down here!

jonny84
10-06-2007, 09:45 PM
What is wrong with labeling the premium events "The Masters Series"?

I dont know why they want to change it!

GlennMirnyi
10-06-2007, 09:47 PM
Too much marketing, too less real action.

gusman890
10-06-2007, 10:03 PM
too less rationalization more like it.

the tour will be a joke.

DrJules
10-06-2007, 10:21 PM
It seems presentational rather than fundamental change.

nolop
10-06-2007, 10:46 PM
paranoid much?.

Sunset of Age
10-06-2007, 10:55 PM
One other question: who in the world proposed this theatre of the absurd?

So-called "Marketing Managers" - the guys & gals that give NOTHING about the game, but all the more about the money... :(

It strikes me as being merely window dressing - no real changes, only renaming things, the purpose of which being a complete :confused: :confused: :confused: to me. *sigh*

Horatio Caine
10-06-2007, 10:56 PM
My T-shirt would read "RIP ATP tennis: ????-2008"

???? - whenever the ATP began. :shrug:

FedFan_2007
10-06-2007, 10:59 PM
ATP tennis will live LONG and PROUD. 2009 will be the best year ever!!!

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-07-2007, 03:57 AM
ATP tennis will live LONG and PROUD. 2009 will be the best year ever!!!

The idiot doesn't understand the hell that is coming.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 11:46 AM
The idiot doesn't understand the hell that is coming.

If this is true Spartan leader, then something has to happen to rid the game of the De Villiers clown.

t0x
10-07-2007, 12:03 PM
Load of bullshit really...

Master Series is a good name for a start. And what good is renaming the tour going to do? Their are problems that need be sorted...

sawan66278
10-07-2007, 12:35 PM
Think about it...we as fans don't really have the best grasp on the PRESENT ATP system. Imagine this with 1000's and 500's and tourneys like Monte Carlo that aren't 1000's but are worth 1000 points...with an Asian swing which focuses on Asian tourneys...worth how many points? This is all simply madness!!!!!!!!!!!! :fiery: :help: :smash:

This proposal reminds me of DC comics with their attempts to have 53 different versions of earth...with their own histories (ex. each has a "Batman, etc.)...

This will simply lead the casual fan to believe that the Slams are all that matter...and after seeing this proposal...perhaps they are correct.

I suppose this is what you get when you have "unified front" of Roger and Rafa against the ATP handlers like Mr. Disney;)

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-07-2007, 05:00 PM
If this is true Spartan leader, then something has to happen to rid the game of the De Villiers clown.

Are you suggesting MTF should hire an assassin :p

I gave that fool the benefit of the doubt with round robin but he is an idiot who has the tennis knowledge of the average Fedtard.

Get rid of him for the good of mens tennis.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 05:02 PM
Are you suggesting MTF should hire an assassin :p

I gave that fool the benefit of the doubt with round robin but he is an idiot who has the tennis knowledge of the average Fedtard.

Get rid of him for the good of mens tennis.

I'd like to, but there are laws against that sadly. Actually I am working on something, but this idiot should be tried for crimes of "Attempted Murder" on tennis.

As for the Fedtard comment, he is even worse than that.

trixtah
10-07-2007, 05:06 PM
Fucking move the ATP to Europe.

stebs
10-07-2007, 05:08 PM
These silly changes won't actually make things that much worse. Are they annoying? YES. Are most of them nonsensical and irritating? YES. Will they drastically effect tennis for fans? I don't think so.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 05:12 PM
These silly changes won't actually make things that much worse. Are they annoying? YES. Are most of them nonsensical and irritating? YES. Will they drastically effect tennis for fans? I don't think so.

So increasing the gap between the IS events which are just glorified challengers and these MM 500 things is beneficial then?

Not actually making an attempt to solve the proper problems instead of giving band aid solutions in the process of creating an image of doing something is alright then?

Xristos
10-07-2007, 05:15 PM
Yayo salad whatever, get my name out of your sig.

stebs
10-07-2007, 05:22 PM
So increasing the gap between the IS events which are just glorified challengers and these MM 500 things is beneficial then?

Not actually making an attempt to solve the proper problems instead of giving band aid solutions in the process of creating an image of doing something is alright then?

Everytime you quote me you put words in my mouth GWH and it's getting boring. I didn't say it was beneficial did I? I didn't say it was alright did I?

Attack what I write if you want to but don't attack things I never even said.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 05:25 PM
Everytime you quote me you put words in my mouth GWH and it's getting boring. I didn't say it was beneficial did I? I didn't say it was alright did I?

Attack what I write if you want to but don't attack things I never even said.

Ok, you aren't bothered about the silly changes, but they are connected with the whole revamping of the 2009 calendar and there are some major issues within the silly changes.

Stgobaiano
10-07-2007, 05:26 PM
The idiot doesn't understand the hell that is coming.





:worship:

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-07-2007, 05:30 PM
So increasing the gap between the IS events which are just glorified challengers and these MM 500 things is beneficial then?

Not actually making an attempt to solve the proper problems instead of giving band aid solutions in the process of creating an image of doing something is alright then?

Hitler...

Stebs is smarter than the average Fedtard, but he is a Fedtard.
They dont understand tennis and think like Disney.

Why do you think I have been against that group for so long. To them tennis = Federer.

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-07-2007, 05:31 PM
:worship:

Thank You.

As long as some good posters exist, there is still hope for MTF and the ATP.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 05:33 PM
Hitler...

Stebs is smarter than the average Fedtard, but he is a Fedtard.
They dont understand tennis and think like Disney.

Why do you think I have been against that group for so long. To them tennis = Federer.

Stebs is a balanced poster and yes there is some Fed love there, but if he was the main man amongst the Fedtards, then the battle wouldn't be so difficult.

At the same time it does seem Disney has bent over for Fed and Nadal in the "500" thing, by giving 2 events each to the respective countries they live in. Dubai/Basel and Madrid/Valencia

stebs
10-07-2007, 05:37 PM
Ok, you aren't bothered about the silly changes, but they are connected with the whole revamping of the 2009 calendar and there are some major issues within the silly changes.

The downsizing of respectable events is not something to disregard and it is more than a presentation change but on the other hand it doesn't mean the end of tennis and it's a silly idea that it might.

stebs
10-07-2007, 05:39 PM
Hitler...

Stebs is smarter than the average Fedtard, but he is a Fedtard.
They dont understand tennis and think like Disney.

Why do you think I have been against that group for so long. To them tennis = Federer.

No, give me another chance RFK, I think I might be able to remember a few other players apart from Federer. Isn't there some guy from Italy or something called Rafi? Also, I think I recall some American who won a title a few years back who was called Roddy?

So, am I a real tennis fan now?

:lol:

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 05:40 PM
The downsizing of respectable events is not something to disregard and it is more than a presentation change but on the other hand it doesn't mean the end of tennis and it's a silly idea that it might.

Well you are a smart guy. If an organisation tries to piss off its core fans in the pursuit of bandwagon ones and gets to a point that core fans stop watching or take interest, then it's not good.

Make efforts to address what the proper problems are and not shit like this.

El Legenda
10-07-2007, 07:48 PM
Believe me, these 2009 changes will NOT happen. I lay my foot down here!

oh it will happen, $1,000,000,000 as be invested into this.

Rogiman
10-07-2007, 08:25 PM
Well you are a smart guy. If an organisation tries to piss off its core fans in the pursuit of bandwagon ones and gets to a point that core fans stop watching or take interest, then it's not good.

Make efforts to address what the proper problems are and not shit like this.Any change for you is a bad change. If it were up to you nothing would ever change and we would still be using stones to light some fire. perhaps that would be good - for ecological reasons (BTW, don't bother to argue, you've never really considered the idea that you might be wrong every once in a while).

Not that radical a change, mainly a cosmetic one, and it gives everyone a clear idea of what the hirarchy is like.
If he does manage to get all that money into the game then more power to him.

At least he's attempting different things, it's not like the current situation is perfect.

FedFan_2007
10-07-2007, 09:59 PM
Where is this $1 billion from? The ATP only hands out $85 million in prize money a year.

scoobs
10-07-2007, 11:15 PM
Most of the core fans will bitch like hell about these changes - and continue watching anyway. Mark my words.

amalyn
10-07-2007, 11:21 PM
Why would I stop watching? I still love the game, and the amount of points a player gets for winning a tournament (or a match for that matter) doesn't change that, however stupid I think de Villiers' ideas are. If these changes keep anyone from watching, I don't think they can really be called hardcore fans.

El Legenda
10-08-2007, 03:58 AM
Where is this $1 billion from? The ATP only hands out $85 million in prize money a year.

prize money was over $100,000,000 this year.

In addition, Hamburg has been reserved a "500" level week. Between them, the 10 announced today will make a financial commitment to the Tour of $20.7 million from 2009, an increase of 118% over 2008 for these events.

Offering 500 points for each champion, the "500" tournaments will create a global standard tier of premium tournaments and ensure a stronger broadcast and sponsor proposition from 2009. Designed to complement the nine "1000" events and World Tour Finals in London, the "500s" will be backed by a top player commitment to play four a year, including one "500" event post-US Open.

From 2009, the calendar changes to the ATP Tour will showcase the sport, ensure a healthier player schedule and offer a far more attractive proposition to broadcast and sponsor partners. The 2009 calendar will also ensure increased facility investment for men's tennis. Between them the "500" tournaments alone will bring over $200 million of facility investment into new stadia builds at Acapulco, Beijing and Valencia; as well as existing facility upgrades in Barcelona, Rotterdam, Dubai and Memphis. This follows the $600 million investment into upgrades and new facilities via the "1000" tournaments. With $200 million of committed marketing support, prize money and other investment, the "1000" and "500" tournaments will see $1 billion invested into men's tennis from 2009.

drf716
10-08-2007, 08:39 AM
tennis won't die

Blue Heart24
10-08-2007, 11:32 AM
:help: Masters Series and GS's = same point category? :scratch: :mad: :o

4 of 10 "500's" mandatory? :sad: :confused:

Beijing?Valencia?
Acapulco? :tape:



:sad: :confused:

Blue Heart24
10-08-2007, 11:33 AM
How much points for TMC? :mad: :o

Rogiman
10-08-2007, 03:09 PM
:help: Masters Series and GS's = same point category? :scratch: :mad: :o
Obviously not.

GS will probably become 2000 point events.

sawan66278
10-08-2007, 06:33 PM
I think I now understand why the changes...Mr. Disney knows where the money is:

Nascar country!!!!!!!!!!!;)

Action Jackson
10-09-2007, 04:15 AM
Any change for you is a bad change. If it were up to you nothing would ever change and we would still be using stones to light some fire. perhaps that would be good - for ecological reasons (BTW, don't bother to argue, you've never really considered the idea that you might be wrong every once in a while).

Not that radical a change, mainly a cosmetic one, and it gives everyone a clear idea of what the hirarchy is like.
If he does manage to get all that money into the game then more power to him.

At least he's attempting different things, it's not like the current situation is perfect.

Incorrect, that any change is a bad change. There is a difference from making changes for the sake of making changes (Round Robin, etc etc), basically nearly anything Mr. Disney has suggested and actually ones that benefit the sport.

To prove how much of a clue you don't have, when it comes to my position on this.

Changes can be good for a sport the examples here are football and volleyball.

- Banning the back pass to the goalkeeper who couldn't pick it up from his defenders. Yes, I played goalkeeper at the time of the changes and has been good for the overall game.

- Volleyball where they changed the scoring system to make a team win a point, not just on their serve and every point is a serve point.

These were both quite big changes to their sports at the time that were embraced and have improved their games, sure like anything these games have their own problems, but so does every sport.

Seems you just like spin.