Should Latin American tour go hard-courts? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Should Latin American tour go hard-courts?

krakenzero
10-06-2007, 04:19 PM
Just a thought, but...

-The best european clay courters don't show up at the other side of the world after Australia and/or Davis Cup to play there anyway (Moya in Bs As is an exception, but he'll not play forever).
-The only two big tournaments that come after LA tour in the calendar are Indian Wells and Miami, both played in hard courts. To prepare those TMS adequately would be a better incentive for some north americans and european players, and eventually better for local players considering preparation.
-There's no Coria and Gaudio anymore. Nowadays, almost every significant latin american player plays better (or at least, get better results) in hard courts. Nalbandian won Shanghai. Cañas won Toronto and was runner up in Miami this year. Chela has like more than 2 years playing better in hard than in clay. Gonzo was runner up at the AO. Massu won the olympics and lost a final in Madrid. All that in hard courts.
-Concerning "the Gaudio and Coria's argument", most of latin american players pretty much suck in clay nowadays. In Montecarlo there were no latinos in R16. In Rome they survived beacuse they only had to play themselves (and Volandri) until Sunday. In Hamburg only Gonzo made it to QF thanks to a lovely draw. In RG, only Cañas to QF.
-Players like Del Potro, Falla or Capdeville play better at hard courts than in clay.

IMHO Latin American tour could be a more popular stage of the season if it's taken as a preparation for IW and Miami tournaments. What do you think?? How about something like this?


AO

Viña del Mar/Santiago (HC or clay)
DC
Buenos Aires (HC)
Acapulco (International Series Gold in HC... or "500" now?)
Costa do Sauipe (HC or clay)
IW
Miami

scoobs
10-06-2007, 04:20 PM
No.

There's enough hardcourt tennis as it is. They should stay clay, the attract reasonable fields and decent crowds - I see no reason to change. I enjoyed some coverage of them this year for the first time and I think they're fine as they are.

Some people want to play on clay as much as possible away from the mandatories and I think that's fine.

Jaap
10-06-2007, 04:21 PM
Won't happen as the Latin American players would keep on getting knocked out in the first rounds.

Action Jackson
10-06-2007, 04:22 PM
No way.

Jimnik
10-06-2007, 04:25 PM
Nah, they should grow grass courts. :p

krakenzero
10-06-2007, 04:35 PM
:eek: wow, a lot of clay-tour deffenders... I wasn't expecting that so quickly.

I understand latin american clay tour is a good chance for a lot of players to get enough points in order to be "main-drawed" almost the whole year (even if didn't work out a lot for Massu and Horna this year), and that there's a lot of latin youngsters who perform better in clay than in other surfaces, but some of the results produced in LA tour are tricky if we compare them with the same players in the european clay season. The calendar (LA tour placed between Australian Open and the american hard court Master Series, including a DC week) doesn't help as well. I just see this stage of the season so disconnected with the rest of the tour that I think making it a pre-Hardcourt TMS experience would be more attractive for some players that normally wouldn't even bother to show up at this tourneys...

Anyway, as a latino fan, I'm not very happy with the Latin American tour the way it is now. I didn't enjoy seeing Pashanski seeded in Viña, the RR fiasco in Bs As, and a lot of little details. But there's the possibility that the tour is well as it is and I'm just "DeVillierizing":rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
10-06-2007, 04:39 PM
Clay to South America is like sand in Saudi Arabia. Many of the top players from the region launched their careers there and the events serve their purpose. Nadal started his great run in 2005 in those events.

The Latin American circuit is a lot better than what it was and people forget it was held in December, and suffered because of it. Buenos Aires has turned itself around from the days when they almost lost the event and it wasn't because of hardcourt tennis. RR was a joke everywhere but these suffered more because of it.

The Brasil Open was played on hardcourt a few times, but there are so many hardcourt events as it is, no need for anymore.

ChinoRios4Ever
10-06-2007, 04:40 PM
vamos clay :rocker2:

Caio_Brasil
10-06-2007, 04:41 PM
No, i don't like the idea, sorry...

scoobs
10-06-2007, 04:48 PM
I love the variety of having some clay going on in February. February can be a bit of a dead month in terms of major interest - Federer hibernates again, the tour splits into 3 strands which don't get folded back together until Indian Wells. You have the Spring European Indoor events like Marseille and Rotterdam and Zagreb switching in the end to Dubai outdoors, the American Indoor/Hard events like Delray Beach, San Jose, Memphis and Las Vegas - all these are indoor hard or carpet events. Having some clay going on in Buenos Aires, Costa Do Sauipe, Vina Del Mar and Acapulco is a useful antidote to all this hardcourt and carpet stuff.

yana
10-06-2007, 05:28 PM
no way, clay = latino

Deboogle!.
10-06-2007, 05:56 PM
I'm hardly clay's biggest fan, but no. I love the variety of having some clay going on in February. February can be a bit of a dead month in terms of major interest - Federer hibernates again, the tour splits into 3 strands which don't get folded back together until Indian Wells. You have the Spring European Indoor events like Marseille and Rotterdam and Zagreb switching in the end to Dubai outdoors, the American Indoor/Hard events like Delray Beach, San Jose, Memphis and Las Vegas - all these are indoor hard or carpet events. Having some clay going on in Buenos Aires, Costa Do Sauipe, Vina Del Mar and Acapulco is a useful antidote to all this hardcourt and carpet stuff.Delray Beach and Vegas are outdoors :p (but i know what you mean ;))

GonzoFed
10-06-2007, 06:01 PM
I beg to differ with the OP. Nadal is playing the SA clay swing (at least part of it, i don't think he would play in Viña) next year, PRECISELY for the red stuff. Glenn probably reserve the tickets for Costa Do Sauipe already. :D

scoobs
10-06-2007, 06:03 PM
I'm hardly clay's biggest fan, but no. Delray Beach and Vegas are outdoors :p (but i know what you mean ;))
I knew I'd get pulled up on that - that sentence got a bit convoluted and in the end I just thought Sod It and left it :)

shotgun
10-06-2007, 06:15 PM
No. Three simultaneous hard-court swings would be just insane.

The LA clay swing already serves a purpose. For most players, the five/six days (that is, if the player went on to reach the final) between the end of Acapulco and the beginning of Indian Wells is enough to get used to the surface, and they won't be suffering from as much jet-lag as the ones that are coming from Dubai.

To be fair, most top players will go wherever the appearance money is, irrespective of the surface.

ReturnWinner
10-07-2007, 12:47 AM
no ,no way

TankingTheSet
10-07-2007, 01:15 AM
What a strange post :confused:

I love these clay court tournaments, they give an opportunity for local South American players to break through as well as giving some Europeans the chance to play on clay. Not everyone is interested in "preparing for Indian Wells/Miami", anyone that is could just play Memphis or Las Vegas in the US.

jayjay
10-07-2007, 02:13 AM
[QUOTE=krakenzero;6100955]Just a thought, but...

-The best european clay courters don't show up at the other side of the world after Australia and/or Davis Cup to play there anyway (Moya in Bs As is an exception, but he'll not play forever).

Yes, they do. Nadal has played before and he'll be playing next year too. Ferrero was there this year, as was Almagro and Andreev for example.

There aren't that many of the "best european clay courters" who don't play South America. I'd like to know who other than Federer you are actually referring to?

Possibly you mean Davydenko and Ferrer.

Either way, a European isn't going to come and play on a hard court in South America when he could be playing on a hard court in Europe, is he? Think about it.

-The only two big tournaments that come after LA tour in the calendar are Indian Wells and Miami, both played in hard courts. To prepare those TMS adequately would be a better incentive for some north americans and european players, and eventually better for local players considering preparation.

You'll find that South American players have done relatively well (or at least to expectations) in general at Indian Wells and Miami. Cañas made the final of Miami for example and he didn't need hard court preparation in South America to achieve it.

There are more tournaments currently on hard court than any other surface.

I made that bold and underlined just to emphasise it to the many people (you may not be one of them) who are continually under the false impression that there is more clay than anything else. There isn't. And DeVilliers is seeing to it that clay is decreased in favour of even more hard court events (at least when it comes to the more significant tournaments).

So to remove clay from south america would be a further slap in the face. Regardless of the fact the current and future generations are capable on hard doesn't mean that south american clay should be abandoned.

Del Potro for example doesn't have to play on clay in South America and this year he chose to play in the US on hard. What you'd be doing is removing the choice. Good idea? Not in my view.

-There's no Coria and Gaudio anymore.

And before Coria and Gaudio there was no Coria and Gaudio. What's your point? In the future there will be more clay court stars from south america who will in time replace these names, be it in the near or distant future. You don't just scrap the whole south american clay series because a couple of players have seen better days! :lol:

Nowadays, almost every significant latin american player plays better (or at least, get better results) in hard courts.

Due to the fact they are more rounded players. Removing more clay and replacing that with hard won't continue that trend, will it?

Nalbandian won Shanghai. Cañas won Toronto and was runner up in Miami this year. Chela has like more than 2 years playing better in hard than in clay. Gonzo was runner up at the AO. Massu won the olympics and lost a final in Madrid. All that in hard courts.

As above.

-Concerning "the Gaudio and Coria's argument", most of latin american players pretty much suck in clay nowadays.

Depends what you mean by suck. The current crop of players in South America are still more than capable on clay and that's being low key about it. Sure, the likes of Acasuso could have had better seasons this year, but that's sport.

In Montecarlo there were no latinos in R16. In Rome they survived beacuse they only had to play themselves (and Volandri) until Sunday. In Hamburg only Gonzo made it to QF thanks to a lovely draw. In RG, only Cañas to QF.

It was an ordinary year for south americans on clay this year across the board. However, tell that to Pico Monaco. In 2004 there were 3 Argentines in the last 4 of Roland Garros. In 2007 there were no Argentines or any other South Americans. So what? Let's change the calendar because of a bad tournament here and there? :lol:

-Players like Del Potro, Falla or Capdeville play better at hard courts than in clay.

Maybe they should learn to play a little better on clay also, no? Del Potro as it happens can do well on all surfaces (eventually), he happens to prefer hard, that doesn't mean the South American circuit should change.

IMHO Latin American tour could be a more popular stage of the season if it's taken as a preparation for IW and Miami tournaments. What do you think?? How about something like this?

If they were the only events going and they were hard court events then they would attract stronger fields. I agree.

Do you propose to scrap the events going on in Europe and the US at the same time?

Do you really think that De Villiers would scrap tournaments in the US, when in his utopia pretty much every tournament would be played there to begin with and have every player wearing a US flag to appease the US audience/viewing figures? :lol:

AO

Viña del Mar/Santiago (HC or clay)
DC
Buenos Aires (HC)
Acapulco (International Series Gold in HC... or "500" now?)
Costa do Sauipe (HC or clay)
IW
Miami

After reading your proposals it's strange to now see you conclude with possible clay in Chile and Brazil sandwiching hard court events.

The transition from surface to surface is challenging enough, why would anyone want to go from hard (AO) to clay (Viña del Mar) to hard (BA/Acapulco) to clay (Costa do Sauipe) to hard (IW/Miami) in a matter of weeks?

You just seem to be muddling things around now. South America should stick with one surface, and if you want it to be hard, then fair enough. But surely not clay and hard. :confused:

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 02:44 AM
What a strange post :confused:

I love these clay court tournaments, they give an opportunity for local South American players to break through as well as giving some Europeans the chance to play on clay. Not everyone is interested in "preparing for Indian Wells/Miami", anyone that is could just play Memphis or Las Vegas in the US.


keep the clay;)
...
the more clay tournies the better:cool:
i prefer the natural surfaces~~ much easier on the body joints:angel:

GustavoM_Fan
10-07-2007, 03:00 AM
I dont understand the sense of change the surface in SA :haha:

this thread is just ridiculous....

kobulingam
10-07-2007, 06:49 AM
Nadal has signed up to play 3 tournaments on the south american clay court circuit for the next 3 or so years. So this clay court circuit has legitimacy now.

Gulliver
10-07-2007, 11:16 AM
Nadal has signed up to play 3 tournaments on the south american clay court circuit for the next 3 or so years. So this clay court circuit has legitimacy now.


He's doing that to pick up points and appearance money as the 2nd best clay courter will be chilling out. Giving that circuit legitimacy is a non-issue. Who can stop him rolling through the field? He has no opposition, it's like taking on a Challenger/Futures field. Big deal.

scoobs
10-07-2007, 01:07 PM
This clay court circuit has always had legitimacy. It doesn't need Nadal to give it that, although him playing it is obviously a bonus for them.