Only 3 players that have reached #1 in the ATP rankings have a losing rec. in finals [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Only 3 players that have reached #1 in the ATP rankings have a losing rec. in finals

NYCtennisfan
10-05-2007, 11:26 PM
Patrick Rafter is currently entrenched at the bottom after JCF won three finals last year and lost only one. Only three players who have ever reached the top of the ATP rankings at some point in their careers have a losing record in finals: Moya, Rafter and JCF.

Muster.......................44-11=.800
Sampras.....................64-24=.727
Borg..........................61-24=.718
McEnroe.....................77-31=.713
Federer......................74-30=.712
Nadal.........................47-21=.691
Kuerten........................20-9=.690
Connors....................105-49=.682
Djokovic......................30-15=.667
Agassi........................60-30=.667
Hewitt........................28-14=..667
Newcombe..................31-16=.660
Courier.......................23-13=.639
Becker......................49-28=.636
Lendl........................94-50=.635
Nastase....................53-35=.602
Roddick......................30-20=.600
Rios..........................18-13=.581
Safin........................15-11=.577
Kafelnikov..................26-20=.565
Wilander....................33-26=.559
Edberg......................42-36=.538
Moya........................20-22=.476
JCF..........................16-18= .471
Rafter.......................11-14=.440


OTHER SLAM WINNERS (From 1968-2011)

Bowrey..............................1-0=1.000
Laver..............................39-15=.722
Del Potro............................9-4=692
Tojo..................................9-4=.692
Krajicek............................17-9=.654
Smith..............................35-19=.648
Noah..............................23-13=.639
Vilas...............................62-40=.608
Gomez............................21-14=.600
Chang.............................34-24=.586
Rosewall..........................25-17=.585
Cash..................................7-5=.583
Stich..............................18-13=.581
Al Costa...........................12-9=.571
Kriek...............................14-13=.519
Ashe...............................33-32=.508
Edmondson..........................6-6=.500
Gaudio...............................8-8=.500
Gimeno...............................5-5=.500
Orantes...........................33-35=.485
Gerulitis...........................24-29=.453
Ivanisevic........................22-27=.449
Bruguera.........................14-21=.400
Tanner............................16-24=.400
Korda.............................10-17=.370
Panatta.............................9-16=.360
Teacher............................8-15=.348
Kodes...............................8-17=.320

mr_burns
10-05-2007, 11:43 PM
amazing, just 11 titles but no 1.. the last 3 had just on really strong 2 years. At the beginning pat was so average, and carlos and ferrero the other way around

Deboogle!.
10-05-2007, 11:57 PM
interesting stuff as always :worship:

MisterQ
10-06-2007, 02:08 AM
Didn't realize Kuerten would be so high on the list! :cool:

Thanks for compiling this.

ReturnWinner
10-06-2007, 02:09 AM
Ferrero =worst number one of the tennis history and one of the most overachiever players ever

GlennMirnyi
10-06-2007, 02:11 AM
From those three, I'm only half-shocked at Rafter. The other two are clowns.

Allure
10-06-2007, 02:22 AM
Federer only .761? Clown. :rolleyes:

VolandriFan
10-06-2007, 02:24 AM
Juan Carlos is one of only 23 players to reach number 1 in the open era :worship:

CmonAussie
10-06-2007, 03:28 AM
From the other thread on the front page, JCF is currently entrenched in 'worst record in finals' hell. Only three players who have ever reached the top of the ATP rankings at some point in their careers have a losing record in finals: Moya, Rafter and JCF.

Muster.......................44-11=.800
Federer......................51-16=.761
Sampras.....................64-24=.727
Borg..........................61-24=.718
McEnroe.....................77-31=.713
Kuerten.....................20-9=.690
Hewitt.......................26-14=.684
Connors....................105-49=.682
Agassi.......................60-30=.667
Newcombe.................31-16=.660
Roddick.....................23-13=.639
Courier......................23-13=.639
Becker......................49-28=.636
Lendl........................94-50=.635
Nastase....................53-35=.602
Rios..........................18-13=.581
Safin........................15-11=.577
Kafelnikov..................26-20=.565
Wilander....................33-26=.559
Edberg......................42-36=.538
Moya........................20-22=.476
Rafter.......................11-14=.440
JCF..........................11-15=.423



###
~~~
Lendl, Edberg & Wilander were further down the list than I expected, probably because these guys met each other in the finals so often that they split a lot of them~~ making their relative finals conversion rates seem worse;)


Nadal`s record is umbelievable [despite not reaching #1]
Rafa~~ 23-won & 5-lost =82%
...4/5 losses in finals were to Federer, so subtracting those>> 23-won & 1-lost = 96%
Rafa plays big matches better than anyone else [despite losing B2B Wimby finals:sad: ].

Jimnik
10-06-2007, 03:34 AM
JCF has a 6-10 record in MM finals but he's 5-5 in the major finals.

This isn't a measurement of greatness. It's more similar to the best 5 set record statistic, a good test of mental stamina nothing more.

Voo de Mar
10-06-2007, 03:55 AM
Rafter is specific - only 11 titles but 2 Grand Slam titles included + two another GS finals :shrug:

R.Federer
10-06-2007, 05:10 AM
And what do we know about these 3? Among the fewest weeks spent at No. 1 amongst all No. 1s


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Spain.svg) Juan Carlos Ferrero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_Ferrero) 8 weeks
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Flag_of_Spain.svg/22px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Spain.svg) Carlos Moyà (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Moy%C3%A0)2 weeks
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Flag_of_Australia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Australia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Australia.svg) Patrick Rafter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Rafter) 1 week


The others are:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Flag_of_Chile.svg/22px-Flag_of_Chile.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Chile.svg) Marcelo Ríos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelo_R%C3%ADos) 6 weeks
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Flag_of_Russia.svg/22px-Flag_of_Russia.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Russia.svg) Yevgeny Kafelnikov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevgeny_Kafelnikov)6 weeks
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Flag_of_Austria.svg/22px-Flag_of_Austria.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Austria.svg) Thomas Muster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Muster) 6 weeks


The only person whose numbers surprise me on that list is Edberg.

NYCtennisfan
10-06-2007, 10:20 AM
###
~~~
Lendl, Edberg & Wilander were further down the list than I expected, probably because these guys met each other in the finals so often that they split a lot of them~~ making their relative finals conversion rates seem worse;)


Nadal`s record is umbelievable [despite not reaching #1]
Rafa~~ 23-won & 5-lost =82%
...4/5 losses in finals were to Federer, so subtracting those>> 23-won & 1-lost = 96%
Rafa plays big matches better than anyone else [despite losing B2B Wimby finals:sad: ].

You would think so, but that's not really the case. Edberg's problem was Becker. He was 5-11 in finals against Becker who ironically completely owned him outside of the slams.

Edberg-Becker=5-11
Edberg-Lendl=3-4
Edberg-Wilander=3-2

Lendl-Edberg=4-3
Lendl-Wilander=6-3
Lendl-Becker=6-7
Lendl-Connors=2-5 (when Lendl dominated Jimbo, they met in SFs)
Lendl-JMAC=8-12

Wilander-Edberg=2-3
Wilander-Lendl=3-6

NYCtennisfan
10-06-2007, 10:23 AM
JCF has a 6-10 record in MM finals but he's 5-5 in the major finals.

This isn't a measurement of greatness. It's more similar to the best 5 set record statistic, a good test of mental stamina nothing more.

I would disagree. The 5 set record is less relevant because a player can have a very good 5 set record and not win big tournaments and a player such as Federer can have an average 5 set record because he doesn't get into grindfests with lesser players, but the true greats of the game win more than their fair share of finals.

CmonAussie
10-06-2007, 10:44 AM
You would think so, but that's not really the case. Edberg's problem was Becker. He was 5-11 in finals against Becker who ironically completely owned him outside of the slams.

Edberg-Becker=5-11
Edberg-Lendl=3-4
Edberg-Wilander=3-2

Lendl-Edberg=4-3
Lendl-Wilander=6-3
Lendl-Becker=6-7
Lendl-Connors=2-5 (when Lendl dominated Jimbo, they met in SF's)
Lendl-JMAC=8-12

Wilander-Edberg=2-3
Wilander-Lendl=3-6

:worship: :worship:
wow you sure know your stuff~~ excellent:cool: ..thanks for the stats/info:angel:

CmonAussie
10-06-2007, 10:49 AM
Muster.......................44-11=.800
Federer......................51-16=.761
Sampras.....................64-24=.727
Borg..........................61-24=.718
McEnroe.....................77-31=.713
Kuerten.....................20-9=.690
Hewitt.......................26-14=.684
Connors....................105-49=.682
Agassi.......................60-30=.667
Newcombe.................31-16=.660
Roddick.....................23-13=.639
Courier......................23-13=.639
Becker......................49-28=.636
Lendl........................94-50=.635
Nastase....................53-35=.602
Rios..........................18-13=.581
Safin........................15-11=.577
Kafelnikov..................26-20=.565
Wilander....................33-26=.559
Edberg......................42-36=.538
Moya........................20-22=.476
Rafter.......................11-14=.440
JCF..........................11-15=.423


the stats are very kind to Muster & Kuerten~~ but they were both a little lucky in my opinion;)
**
vast majority of Muster & Kuerten`s titles were on clay & they dominated respectively for a few years on their favourite surface, so they won the majority of clay finals they played!!
#however Muster & Kuerten played relatively few finals on hardcourt or other surfaces, if they had reached more finals on the faster surfaces [ie. if they had been better all round players] they would have surely lost a greater percentage % & their stats wouldn`t look so good:devil:

Bobby
10-06-2007, 11:55 AM
the stats are very kind to Muster & Kuerten~~ but they were both a little lucky in my opinion;)
**
vast majority of Muster & Kuerten`s titles were on clay & they dominated respectively for a few years on their favourite surface, so they won the majority of clay finals they played!!
#however Muster & Kuerten played relatively few finals on hardcourt or other surfaces, if they had reached more finals on the faster surfaces [ie. if they had been better all round players] they would have surely lost a greater percentage % & their stats wouldn`t look so good:devil:
You are probably right. Muster was good, but not really that good. I can't remember his yearly schedule, but I suppose that he really preferred the clay tournaments. Probably went back to clay right after Wimbledon and avoided other surfaces.

Action Jackson
10-06-2007, 12:03 PM
You are probably right. Muster was good, but not really that good. I can't remember his yearly schedule, but I suppose that he really preferred the clay tournaments. Probably went back to clay right after Wimbledon and avoided other surfaces.

You do know Muster cause of his knee wasn't allowed by the doctors to play weeks in a row on hardcourt.

Wilander went and played clay events after Wimbledon.

Muster did win a hardcourt and a carpet TMS.

JustJames
10-06-2007, 12:12 PM
the stats are very kind to Muster & Kuerten~~ but they were both a little lucky in my opinion;)
**
vast majority of Muster & Kuerten`s titles were on clay & they dominated respectively for a few years on their favourite surface, so they won the majority of clay finals they played!!
#however Muster & Kuerten played relatively few finals on hardcourt or other surfaces, if they had reached more finals on the faster surfaces [ie. if they had been better all round players] they would have surely lost a greater percentage % & their stats wouldn`t look so good:devil:

That actually makes a lot of sense. However, couldn't you apply that to Rafael Nadal? You say that his record is "unbelievable' but Muster's and Kuerten's records are tainted by their domination on clay.. Sounds a little contradictory to me.

Action Jackson
10-06-2007, 12:15 PM
That actually makes a lot of sense. However, couldn't you apply that to Rafael Nadal? You say that his record is "unbelievable' but Muster's and Kuerten's records are tainted by their domination on clay.. Sounds a little contradictory to me.

Nah! Nadal has a postive record against Federer so that counts in his favour, that's the difference.

Bobby
10-06-2007, 12:22 PM
You do know Muster cause of his knee wasn't allowed by the doctors to play weeks in a row on hardcourt.

Wilander went and played clay events after Wimbledon.

Muster did win a hardcourt and a carpet TMS.

Yes, I know.

Action Jackson
10-06-2007, 12:26 PM
Yes, I know.

Yes, you knew why he played more clay events then. I assume you know he actually was better on hardcourts at the end of his career.

So why are Guga and Muster's record overrated and Nadal's isn't?

CmonAussie
10-06-2007, 12:34 PM
That actually makes a lot of sense. However, couldn't you apply that to Rafael Nadal? You say that his record is "unbelievable' but Muster's and Kuerten's records are tainted by their domination on clay.. Sounds a little contradictory to me.


yes it`s contradictory;)
...
Nadal hasn`t been #1 so he`s not allowed on this list!
Rafa`s finals record away from clay is 5-won & 4-lost [but 3/4 losses were to Federer in long long matches];)

Bobby
10-06-2007, 12:39 PM
Yes, you knew why he played more clay events then. I assume you know he actually was better on hardcourts at the end of his career.

So why are Guga and Muster's record overrated and Nadal's isn't?

Don't really have an answer to that one. I thought my thinking was more or less flawless, but maybe I'm just too tired after studying all day. You got me here, big man! Maybe I should take off now.

CmonAussie
10-06-2007, 12:42 PM
You are probably right. Muster was good, but not really that good. I can't remember his yearly schedule, but I suppose that he really preferred the clay tournaments. Probably went back to clay right after Wimbledon and avoided other surfaces.

:wavey:
I`ve just got 3 words for ya [Ricky] Bobby bro:cool: : "f...ing SHAKE & BAKE"!

Bobby
10-06-2007, 12:49 PM
:wavey:
I`ve just got 3 words for ya [Ricky] Bobby bro:cool: : "f...ing SHAKE & BAKE"!

Shake&Bake!!

stebs
10-06-2007, 06:25 PM
Good stuff as always NYC and it's always interesting to see.

NYCtennisfan
10-06-2007, 10:10 PM
OTHER SLAM WINNERS (From 1968-2007)

Bowrey..............................1-0=1.000
Nadal...............................23-5=.821
Laver..............................39-15=.722
Tojo..................................9-4=.692
Krajicek............................17-9=.654
Smith..............................35-19=.648
Noah..............................23-13=.639
Vilas...............................62-40=.608
Gomez............................21-14=.600
Chang.............................34-24=.586
Rosewall..........................25-17=.585
Cash..................................7-5=.583
Stich..............................18-13=.581
Al Costa...........................12-9=.571
Kriek...............................14-13=.519
Ashe...............................33-32=.508
Edmondson..........................6-6=.500
Gaudio...............................8-8=.500
Gimeno...............................5-5=.500
Orantes...........................33-35=.485
Gerulitis...........................24-29=.453
Ivanisevic........................22-27=.449
Bruguera.........................14-21=.400
Tanner............................16-24=.400
Korda.............................10-17=.370
Panatta.............................9-16=.360
Teacher............................8-15=.348
Kodes...............................8-17=.320

MisterQ
10-06-2007, 10:35 PM
OTHER SLAM WINNERS (From 1968-2007)

Bowrey..............................1-0=1.000
Nadal...............................23-5=.821
Laver..............................39-15=.722
Tojo..................................9-4=.692
Krajicek............................17-9=.654
Smith..............................35-19=.648
Noah..............................23-13=.639
Vilas...............................62-40=.608
Gomez............................21-14=.600
Chang.............................34-24=.586
Rosewall..........................25-17=.585
Cash..................................7-5=.583
Stich..............................18-13=.581
Al Costa...........................12-9=.571
Kriek...............................14-13=.519
Ashe...............................33-32=.508
Edmondson..........................6-6=.500
Gaudio...............................8-8=.500
Gimeno...............................5-5=.500
Orantes...........................33-35=.485
Gerulitis...........................24-29=.453
Ivanisevic........................22-27=.449
Bruguera.........................14-21=.400
Tanner............................16-24=.400
Korda.............................10-17=.370
Panatta.............................9-16=.360
Teacher............................8-15=.348
Kodes...............................8-17=.320

Bowrey is my hero. :worship: :lol:

Gulliver
10-06-2007, 10:55 PM
Of those still in the public eye, Pat Cash stands out as having a totally self inflated ego on the back of one of the worst records at reaching Finals, let alone winning titles. 7 titles and 5 finals. Pffft.

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 12:20 AM
OTHER SLAM WINNERS (From 1968-2007)

Bowrey..............................1-0=1.000
Nadal...............................23-5=.821
Laver..............................39-15=.722
Tojo..................................9-4=.692
Krajicek............................17-9=.654
Smith..............................35-19=.648
Noah..............................23-13=.639
Vilas...............................62-40=.608
Gomez............................21-14=.600
Chang.............................34-24=.586
Rosewall..........................25-17=.585
Cash..................................7-5=.583
Stich..............................18-13=.581
Al Costa...........................12-9=.571
Kriek...............................14-13=.519
Ashe...............................33-32=.508
Edmondson..........................6-6=.500
Gaudio...............................8-8=.500
Gimeno...............................5-5=.500
Orantes...........................33-35=.485
Gerulitis...........................24-29=.453
Ivanisevic........................22-27=.449
Bruguera.........................14-21=.400
Tanner............................16-24=.400
Korda.............................10-17=.370
Panatta.............................9-16=.360
Teacher............................8-15=.348
Kodes...............................8-17=.320


:wavey:
Bowrey shouldn`t be included on your list because tennis only went open from FO 1968, the 1968 AO was still only for amateurs [the other 3 slams turned Open]~~ finally in 1969 AO also went Open;)

Therefore Bowrey`s 1968 AO win is invalidated [belongs to previous amateur era];)

NYCtennisfan
10-07-2007, 12:31 AM
:wavey:
Bowrey shouldn`t be included on your list because tennis only went open from FO 1968, the 1968 AO was still only for amateurs [the other 3 slams turned Open]~~ finally in 1969 AO also went Open;)

Therefore Bowrey`s 1968 AO win is invalidated [belongs to previous amateur era];)

True, but the ATP site lists him. I thought it was funny :)

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 12:31 AM
Of those still in the public eye, Pat Cash stands out as having a totally self inflated ego on the back of one of the worst records at reaching Finals, let alone winning titles. 7 titles and 5 finals. Pffft.


Pat Cash was a big match player~
he didn`t care about MM titles [hence his poor overall finals record]!
look more closely & you`ll see he was much better than many other so called `one slam wonders`;)

Cash in big events:
*Wimbledon champion 1987
*Wimbledon SF 1984, QF 1985 & 1988

#AO finalist 1987 & 1988 [both lost in dramatic 5-setters to Edberg & Wildander]
#AO QF 1984, 1985

*USO SF 1984 [lost dramatic 5th set tie breaker to Lendl]

#Davis Cup champions for AUS 1983 & 1986
[virtually a one man team with Cash winning both singles & doubles]
#Davis Cup finalists for AUS 1990

>>>>>
compared with the likes of ToJo, Gaudio & Costa ~~ Pat Cash`s career was much more impressive:cool:

Johnny Groove
10-07-2007, 12:35 AM
OTHER SLAM WINNERS (From 1968-2007)

Bowrey..............................1-0=1.000
Nadal...............................23-5=.821
Laver..............................39-15=.722
Tojo..................................9-4=.692
Krajicek............................17-9=.654
Smith..............................35-19=.648
Noah..............................23-13=.639
Vilas...............................62-40=.608
Gomez............................21-14=.600
Chang.............................34-24=.586
Rosewall..........................25-17=.585
Cash..................................7-5=.583
Stich..............................18-13=.581
Al Costa...........................12-9=.571
Kriek...............................14-13=.519
Ashe...............................33-32=.508
Edmondson..........................6-6=.500
Gaudio...............................8-8=.500
Gimeno...............................5-5=.500
Orantes...........................33-35=.485
Gerulitis...........................24-29=.453
Ivanisevic........................22-27=.449
Bruguera.........................14-21=.400
Tanner............................16-24=.400
Korda.............................10-17=.370
Panatta.............................9-16=.360
Teacher............................8-15=.348
Kodes...............................8-17=.320

The AO in '68 wasnt part of the Open Era. The first slam of the open era was RG 68

EDIT: I see Cmonaussie has beaten me to the punch. I also recall it was I who told Cmon about this little stat, a few months ago ;)

Burrow
10-07-2007, 12:42 AM
^^^ :lol:

MisterQ
10-07-2007, 02:02 AM
And yet, NYCTennisfan never claimed Bowrey was Open Era. ;)

No doubt about it, Bowrey was the Ur-Spartan.

Gulliver
10-07-2007, 10:26 AM
CmonAussie, I understand why you are defending Cash's record by mentioning his whole career, but the topic is record in finals, and the list below is pfffft.

SINGLES CAREER TITLES (7): 1982--Melbourne; 1983--Brisbane, Melbourne; 1987--Nancy, Wimbledon, Johannesburg; 1990--Hong Kong FINALIST (5): 1984--Melbourne Indoor; 1987--Australian Open, Sydney Indoor; 1988--Australian Open; 1990--Seoul

stebs
10-07-2007, 01:33 PM
Bowrey >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sampras, Borg, Laver, Federer etc...

:lol:

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 01:40 PM
CmonAussie, I understand why you are defending Cash's record by mentioning his whole career, but the topic is record in finals, and the list below is pfffft.

SINGLES CAREER TITLES (7): 1982--Melbourne; 1983--Brisbane, Melbourne; 1987--Nancy, Wimbledon, Johannesburg; 1990--Hong Kong FINALIST (5): 1984--Melbourne Indoor; 1987--Australian Open, Sydney Indoor; 1988--Australian Open; 1990--Seoul


:wavey:
yeah i know Cash`s career in terms of winning titles was pretty lame [for someone who big notes himself];)
...
but he was so close to winning AO, i watched from the stands when he lost the 87 AO final in 5-sets to Edberg & it was heartbreaking:sad: .. 1988 AO final was even worse because Cash led Wilander 2-sets-to-1 but it began raining~~ broke his momentum & Wilander struck the dagger in the heart 8-6 in the 5th:sad:

Cash was a couple of points away from being a multiple slam winner>> so i refuse to categorise him in the same league as lucky slam winners Gaudio, ToJo, Costa, Edmonson etc..:eek:

Dougie
10-07-2007, 02:09 PM
Of those still in the public eye, Pat Cash stands out as having a totally self inflated ego on the back of one of the worst records at reaching Finals, let alone winning titles. 7 titles and 5 finals. Pffft.

But that´s exactly what makes the guy such a legend! Nothing like a bloated ego with nothing to back it up with!! That´s entertainment!

CmonAussie
10-07-2007, 02:37 PM
But that´s exactly what makes the guy such a legend! Nothing like a bloated ego with nothing to back it up with!! That´s entertainment!


:wavey:
well i agree he`s a bit of a legend but not for the same reasons;)
#Cash denied Ivan Lendl the career slam by taking him out in the 87 Wimby final:devil:
#denied Lendl again in the 87 & 88 AO SFs
#denied Lendl the 84 USO~ by exhausting him in a 4-hour SF [super saturday], so McEnroe thrashed him the next day
#virtually a one man show in getting AUS the Davis Cup wins in 83 & 86:worship:
#Junior Wimbledon & USO champ:angel:

Gulliver
10-07-2007, 03:02 PM
Sorry, CmonAussie, but "getting close" and denying someone their chance of glory doesn't cut it. It's what you've got, not what you might have had. You could always start a thread titled "What if...." :)

NYCtennisfan
12-19-2007, 07:35 PM
If Nadal can reach #1, he should have the most impressive finals record of all.

thrust
12-19-2007, 10:06 PM
the stats are very kind to Muster & Kuerten~~ but they were both a little lucky in my opinion;)
**
vast majority of Muster & Kuerten`s titles were on clay & they dominated respectively for a few years on their favourite surface, so they won the majority of clay finals they played!!
#however Muster & Kuerten played relatively few finals on hardcourt or other surfaces, if they had reached more finals on the faster surfaces [ie. if they had been better all round players] they would have surely lost a greater percentage % & their stats wouldn`t look so good:devil:

TRUE!

Kolya
12-19-2007, 11:13 PM
Respect to Muster and Kuerten though.

You do whatever to win.

Gulliver
12-19-2007, 11:39 PM
If Nadal can reach #1, he should have the most impressive finals record of all.

And see the quote above on Muster and Kuerten. You could say the same about Nadal.

Nadal has 23 titles, of which 18 were won on clay, 4 on hard, 1 indoor. He's reached 6 other Finals (2 hard, 1 clay, 2 grass, 1 indoor).

Compare that with Federer's first 23 titles: 10 on hard, 4 on clay, 4 on grass, 5 indoor. He reached 8 other Finals (1 hard, 2 clay, 5 indoor).

I know that the title of the thread refers to record in Finals but plain stats (W/L) in Finals don't tell the whole story.

And I laughed at whoever deducted Nadal's losses to Federer in order to inflate his record. Want to deduct Federer's losses to Nadal (6) to work out a new stat? Pointless. When Nadal becomes #1 it will be interesting to see if he, like others, can make that position (and retain it) on the basis of predominantly winning on clay. Not quite the balance that one would want to see.

Merton
12-20-2007, 12:11 AM
Thanks for the stats, as always :)

NYCtennisfan
12-20-2007, 12:37 AM
Thanks for the stats, as always :)

:) You always have an interesting insight or two into the stats which leads to good conversation. I have a few new threads I'll put next week.

*bunny*
12-20-2007, 03:28 AM
Interesting stats but it's a little bit misleading if you try to read many things into it I think.

If JCF hadn't reached any finals after the illness- and injury-plagued 2004, his final record would have been 11-11. In other words, if he were playing poorer he would have avoided having a losing record in finals.

Of course, it's a pity that he hasn't won a title after Madrid 2003, and I'd love to see him ending the title drought in 2008 and set the record straight.

KaxMisha
12-20-2007, 04:47 PM
I have a few new threads I'll put next week.

Sounds great! Your threads are always a great read NYCtennisfan. :worship:

stebs
12-20-2007, 05:59 PM
Good thread.

Huge props to Muster for topping this when you see the three behind him are Borg, Sampras and Federer. Very good company to keep :)

NYCtennisfan
12-20-2007, 06:23 PM
Good thread.

Huge props to Muster for topping this when you see the three behind him are Borg, Sampras and Federer. Very good company to keep :)

Huge props indeed. The wins on clay didn't come as easy for him as they did for Nadal who simply dominates. There were a lot of tight matches where he was broken a lot or gave up tons of break points and had to fight for everything.

Jimnik
01-11-2008, 01:47 AM
From the other thread on the front page, JCF is currently entrenched in 'worst record in finals' hell. Only three players who have ever reached the top of the ATP rankings at some point in their careers have a losing record in finals: Moya, Rafter and JCF.

Muster.......................44-11=.800
Federer......................51-16=.761
Sampras.....................64-24=.727
Borg..........................61-24=.718
McEnroe.....................77-31=.713
Kuerten........................20-9=.690
Hewitt........................26-14=.684
Connors....................105-49=.682
Agassi........................60-30=.667
Newcombe..................31-16=.660
Roddick......................23-13=.639
Courier.......................23-13=.639
Becker......................49-28=.636
Lendl........................94-50=.635
Nastase....................53-35=.602
Rios..........................18-13=.581
Safin........................15-11=.577
Kafelnikov..................26-20=.565
Wilander....................33-26=.559
Edberg......................42-36=.538
Moya........................20-22=.476
Rafter.......................11-14=.440
JCF..........................11-15=.423

JC can send Rafter to the bottom of the list with .444 by winning tomorrow.

Or he'll dig himself a deeper hole with a .407 if he loses.

NYCtennisfan
01-12-2008, 06:17 PM
JCF comes up just short at a tournament yet again, but a positive sign for him to do well early in the year.

NYCtennisfan
05-10-2009, 06:35 AM
JCF still at the bottom. Nadal moves in to a tie in first place. Federer drops below Sampras.

kingfederer
05-10-2009, 07:19 AM
If Nadal can reach #1, he should have the most impressive finals record of all.

yea nadal is freakish, pity he choked that 2007 wimbledon final away and to a lesser degree the 2005 miami final. 2 finals he really should have won. the murray loss at rotterdam should have an asterix next to it, nadal was injured.

TennisViewer531
05-10-2009, 08:09 AM
Thanks for sharing the stats! Learning a lot here :)

CmonAussie
05-10-2009, 09:11 AM
From the other thread on the front page, JCF is currently entrenched in 'worst record in finals' hell. Only three players who have ever reached the top of the ATP rankings at some point in their careers have a losing record in finals: Moya, Rafter and JCF.

Muster.......................44-11=.800
Nadal..........................36-9=.800
Sampras.....................64-24=.727
Federer......................57-22=.722
Borg..........................61-24=.718
McEnroe.....................77-31=.713
Kuerten........................20-9=.690
Hewitt........................26-14=.684
Connors....................105-49=.682
Agassi........................60-30=.667
Newcombe..................31-16=.660
Roddick......................23-13=.639
Courier.......................23-13=.639
Becker......................49-28=.636
Lendl........................94-50=.635
Nastase....................53-35=.602
Rios..........................18-13=.581
Safin........................15-11=.577
Kafelnikov..................26-20=.565
Wilander....................33-26=.559
Edberg......................42-36=.538
Moya........................20-22=.476
Rafter.......................11-14=.440
JCF..........................12-16=.429



:wavey:
***
Hewitt @ 27-14 in finals now..

Roddick @ 27-15 in finals now..

kingfederer
05-10-2009, 10:04 AM
:wavey:
***
Hewitt @ 27-14 in finals now..

Roddick @ 27-15 in finals now..

thread is to show how awesome rafa is, not about mugs like roddick and hewitt.

thrust
05-10-2009, 02:10 PM
the stats are very kind to Muster & Kuerten~~ but they were both a little lucky in my opinion;)
**
vast majority of Muster & Kuerten`s titles were on clay & they dominated respectively for a few years on their favourite surface, so they won the majority of clay finals they played!!
#however Muster & Kuerten played relatively few finals on hardcourt or other surfaces, if they had reached more finals on the faster surfaces [ie. if they had been better all round players] they would have surely lost a greater percentage % & their stats wouldn`t look so good:devil:

EXCELLENT AND FACTUAL POST!

MacTheKnife
05-10-2009, 02:21 PM
McEnroe.....................77-31=.713 :yeah:

NYCtennisfan
05-10-2009, 03:54 PM
:wavey:
***
Hewitt @ 27-14 in finals now..

Roddick @ 27-15 in finals now..

Updated. :)

CmonAussie
05-10-2009, 04:04 PM
Updated. :)

:cool:
Cheers..!

l_mac
05-10-2009, 04:15 PM
And see the quote above on Muster and Kuerten. You could say the same about Nadal.

Nadal has 23 titles, of which 18 were won on clay, 4 on hard, 1 indoor. He's reached 6 other Finals (2 hard, 1 clay, 2 grass, 1 indoor).

Compare that with Federer's first 23 titles: 10 on hard, 4 on clay, 4 on grass, 5 indoor. He reached 8 other Finals (1 hard, 2 clay, 5 indoor).

I know that the title of the thread refers to record in Finals but plain stats (W/L) in Finals don't tell the whole story.

And I laughed at whoever deducted Nadal's losses to Federer in order to inflate his record. Want to deduct Federer's losses to Nadal (6) to work out a new stat? Pointless. When Nadal becomes #1 it will be interesting to see if he, like others, can make that position (and retain it) on the basis of predominantly winning on clay. Not quite the balance that one would want to see.

:lol:

NYCtennisfan
08-02-2009, 10:36 PM
JCF couldn't improve his finals record against a red hot Davydenko.

NYCtennisfan
08-02-2009, 10:40 PM
Nadal moves down to #2 after the loss in Madrid. Federer with 3 straight finals wins moves into third place.

crude oil
08-03-2009, 02:51 AM
how many of musters finals were tms equivalent tournaments versus nadal's?

I know nadal has won quite a few major clay tournies at tms or grand slam level.

NYCtennisfan
02-14-2010, 09:33 PM
JCF moves a bit closer to .500.

TennisOnWood
02-14-2010, 09:47 PM
I like this statistics.. thanks

Now waiting for A Rod

Jimnik
02-14-2010, 10:04 PM
Doh! Still below Rafter.

And if he makes another final next week he'll get a much tougher opponent.

Hope he can get off the bottom before he retires.

abraxas21
02-14-2010, 10:22 PM
Wow, I made a similar thread a few months ago... :)


At least 50 finals played

W L %
1 Thomas Muster (Austria) 44 11 0,80
2 Pete Sampras (USA) 64 24 0,73
3 Bjorn Borg (Sweden) 63 24 0,72
4 Roger Federer (Switzerland) 62 24 0,72
5 John McEnroe (USA) 77 33 0,70
6 Rod Laver (Australia) 40 18 0,69
7 Jimmy Connors (USA) 108 50 0,68
8 Andre Agassi (USA) 60 30 0,67
9 Stan Smith (USA) 36 19 0,65
10 Ivan Lendl (USA) 93 52 0,64
11 Boris Becker (Germany) 50 28 0,64
12 Ilie Năstase (Romania) 59 36 0,62
13 Guillermo Vilas (Argentina) 63 40 0,61
14 Michael Chang (USA) 34 24 0,59
15 Matts Wilander (Sweden) 34 26 0,57
16 Stefan Edberg (Sweden) 42 36 0,54
17 Brad Gilbert (USA) 40 40 0,50
18 Arthur Ashe (USA) 33 34 0,49
19 Brian Gottfried (USA) 25 26 0,49
20 Manuel Orantes (Spain) 33 35 0,49
21 Goran Ivanišević (Croatia) 24 28 0,46
22 Vitas Gerulaitis (USA) 24 29 0,45


between 30 and 49 finals played

W L %
1 Rafael Nadal (Spain) 36 12 0,75
2 José Luis Clerc (Argentina) 25 10 0,71
3 Lleyton Hewitt (Australia) 28 15 0,65
4 Yannick Noah (France) 23 13 0,64
5 Jim Courier (USA) 23 14 0,62
6 Andy Roddick (USA) 27 17 0,61
7 Ken Rosewall (Australia) 27 17 0,61
8 Andrés Gomez (Ecuador) 21 14 0,60
9 Michael Stich (Germany) 18 13 0,58
10 Harold Solomon (USA) 22 16 0,58
11 Alex Corretja (Spain) 17 13 0,57
12 Marcelo Ríos (Chile) 18 14 0,56
13 Yevgeny Kafelnikov (Russia) 26 22 0,54
14 Eddie Dibbs (USA) 22 20 0,52
15 Marat Rafin (Russia) 15 15 0,50
16 Tom Okker (Netherlands) 22 23 0,49
17 Raúl Ramírez (Mexico) 19 20 0,49
18 Carlos Moyá (Spain) 20 22 0,48
19 Wojciech Fibak (Poland) 15 19 0,44
20 Juan Carlos Ferrero (Spain) 14 17 0,44
21 Sergi Bruguera (Spain) 15 22 0,41
22 Roscoe Tanner (USA) 16 25 0,39
23 Petr Korda (Czechoslovakia) 11 19 0,37


Between 20 and 29 finals played

W L %
1 Nikolay Davydenko (Russia) 20 5 0,80
2 Thomas Enqvist (Sweden) 19 8 0,70
3 Gustavo Kuerten (Brazil) 20 9 0,69
4 Richard Krajicek (Netherl) 17 9 0,65
5 Wayne Ferreira (S. Africa) 15 8 0,65
6 Mark Rosset (Switzerland) 15 8 0,65
7 Balázs Taróczy (Hungary) 13 7 0,65
8 Karel Nováček (Czechosl) 13 8 0,62
9 Alberto Berasategui (Spain) 14 9 0,61
10 Novak Đoković (Serbia) 16 11 0,59
11 José Higueras (Spain) 16 12 0,57
12 Thomas Haas (Germany) 12 9 0,57
13 Greg Rusedski (England) 15 12 0,56
14 Magnus Gustafsson (Sweden) 14 12 0,54
15 Tim Mayotte (USA) 12 11 0,52
16 Johan Kriek (South Africa) 14 13 0,52
17 David Nalbandian (Argent) 10 10 0,50
18 Fernando González (Chile) 11 11 0,50
19 Sandy Mayer (USA) 10 10 0,50
20 Patrick Rafter (Australia) 11 14 0,44
21 Miloslav Mečíř (Slovakia) 11 14 0,44
22 Eliot Teltscher (USA) 10 14 0,42
23 James Blake (USA) 10 14 0,42
24 Ivan Ljubičić (Croatia) 8 12 0,40
25 Todd Martin (USA) 8 12 0,40
26 Tim Henman (England) 11 17 0,39
27 Adriano Panatta (Italy) 9 16 0,36
28 Brian Teacher (USA) 8 15 0,35
29 Anders Järryd (Sweden) 8 16 0,33
30 Tomáš Šmíd (Czechoslovakia) 9 19 0,32

Jimnik
02-20-2010, 10:43 PM
Tbh, I don't think it's looking promising for JCF. He's about to play a final against his biggest bogey player besides Roddick.

Jimnik
02-22-2010, 12:08 AM
So glad to be wrong.

14-17 = 0.452. NYC, time to move him off the bottom. :wavey:

NYCtennisfan
02-22-2010, 06:00 AM
So glad to be wrong.

14-17 = 0.452. NYC, time to move him off the bottom. :wavey:

:lol: Done.

abraxas21
02-27-2010, 01:56 AM
Ferrero has another shot at getting closer to a 50% success rate in finals

Jimnik
02-27-2010, 01:59 AM
But a loss would put him back at the bottom. :unsure:

abraxas21
02-28-2010, 06:06 PM
:(

NYCtennisfan
07-07-2011, 01:34 AM
Djokovic doing alright for himself at 2/3 of all finals won.

Jimnik
07-17-2011, 06:47 PM
Jcf @ 16-18 = .471 :)

Almost equal with Moya.

NYCtennisfan
07-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Jcf @ 16-18 = .471 :)

Almost equal with Moya.

He's won his last two finals to send him past Rafter.