One thing that Roger is missing in his game [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

One thing that Roger is missing in his game

little duck
05-31-2004, 01:23 AM
I posted this same text on Roger Federer forum also but it is almost dead so I though this is a better place.

I realised that Roger should think again a bit about his aproach to the game. He is not opening up to his oponent as he should. He tries to control the match completely. But instead he should open up and give a chance to his oponents. He shouldn't take all responsibility on his back, but put his oponent under pressure.
He should ask himself - why all the players usualy play theri's best agains him? It's because they don't feel any responsibility for the match. Roger tries not to give anybody a chance, as someone on these forums once remarked. He thinks: "If I play perfect, I will win; and if I loose point, it's because I made some mistake". But that is pretty banal aproach to the game. You are in the field to test your oponent also. Give him a chance to play a good shot and win, or to make a mistake and loose! Put him under test and proove that you are better! Come to the net and control his shot with a volley or wait for his mistake.
But Roger is apparently affraid to open up and realy compete. He doesn't take risks in this respect. What a shame, and hard to understand for such a player. I realy expect Roger to realise this and enter his future matches in a completely competitive state of mind, and not as he is playing passians. It's not about you playing perfect, it's about being better then your oponent! Give them a chance, and proove that you are better!

LCeh
05-31-2004, 01:44 AM
Sorry, I don't understand little duck. What is wrong with Roger putting the pressure on the opponent? If you let the opponents get a good look at a shot, and you keep giving them looks, they will start getting a rhythm. From what I have seen at AO, he played offense and defense well, especially against David. He had lots of long rallies against him, and he was able to get a good look and attack, and most of the time it worked.

Did I completely miss you point?? ;)

Dirk
05-31-2004, 02:29 AM
Roger is great at offensive and defensive. This thread makes no sense. Yes, Roger is a perfectionist, he wants his game to work well in every element. If Roger didn't have such a high standard then he would not be where he is. I think this post is all about Roger losing to Guga. Roger didn't play well on a court he doesn't quite feel comfortable on yet. He will improve and get much better. Take it easy. LCeh is right on. Roger never would have beaten Hewit and David at Oz without being defensively great and passive at the right times to allow himself to work the point. Roger's Guga problems were due to Guga and losing his footing on the changing condition of the court. Had the match been played last Roger would have done much better I believe. He had a bad day at the office give it a rest folks. :rolleyes:

Shy
05-31-2004, 02:49 AM
I think that Roger is being in a competitive state of mind.He would not win this much if he wasn't. Right now, I think that his game is great.He only lost FOUR times on 38 and won half of the big titles since the master cup.I don't see anything wrong with putting pressure on your opponent.Most players do.You can not give them chance.I don't that he is losing because of it.He is an athlete,so losing is part of the games.I think that he can improve his strategy a little, but I do believe that he is doing great.

Dirk
05-31-2004, 02:56 AM
Think how much better Roger will be in another year? He is getting better and better all the time.

little duck
05-31-2004, 07:51 AM
I think you didn't quite understand me.

When I sad 'give them a chance' I didn't think 'not keep them under pressure'. I was taking about attitude towards the game. Roger is very easily down-trodden if oponent makes a single good shot against him. Just look him when he comes to the net. He is to undecisive, not like Tim Henman. He thinks too much. He is too afraid of what will his oponent do next. He doesn't impose his game on the field enough. His matches are more about him playing perfect then about testing his oponent. Read my post again! I still think what I said there. It's about attitude, I'm not speaking about his shots and tactics at all, because they are the best in the world.

federerer
05-31-2004, 07:25 PM
little duck - I've read you post a few times, but I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.


I realised that Roger should think again a bit about his aproach to the game. He is not opening up to his oponent as he should. He tries to control the match completely. But instead he should open up and give a chance to his oponents. He shouldn't take all responsibility on his back, but put his oponent under pressure.

by this do you mean he should let his opponent play more balls and possibly choke, rather than go for winners all the time? I think he does do this. There are many times (especially during high pressure moments) where I've seen him chip or block back returns, allowing his opponent to feel the pressure of the moment. Especially when a top player plays a weaker opponent you often see a player lose a match rather than someone winning it. This is especially true in women's tennis I've noticed.


He should ask himself - why all the players usualy play theri's best agains him? It's because they don't feel any responsibility for the match.


Hmmnn... I don't think this is true. Coria did not play his best against roger in Hamburg. Safin did not play his best against roger in the AO final (he was tired of course). There are many less memorable examples of players not bringing their best games against roger. Still, we should expect that an opponent will play his best against roger for one simple reason: Roger is the top player in the world. He is recognized as such by both the rankings and in the club house. When someone plays the best player in the world, they feel like they have nothing to lose. They are generally more relaxed as the underdog and are able to play more riskily and with less pressure on them. The advantage of being the top player is that you can intimidate your opponent. the disadvantage is that every player is gunning for you.


Roger tries not to give anybody a chance, as someone on these forums once remarked. He thinks: "If I play perfect, I will win; and if I loose point, it's because I made some mistake". But that is pretty banal aproach to the game. You are in the field to test your oponent also. Give him a chance to play a good shot and win, or to make a mistake and loose! Put him under test and proove that you are better! Come to the net and control his shot with a volley or wait for his mistake.


Regarding Roger's quote: that is the confidence of a champion! That is his greatest advantage, his "A" game is better than anyone else's. I understand your point about allowing your opponent to lose some points himself, and I think that this is the big change in roger's game over the past 12 months or so. He is still trying to figure out when to attack and when to defend. This part of his game is improving and could stand to be improved. Regarding coming into net: well, I think this is the weakest part of his game. His volleying on fast surfaces is exquisite but on a slower surface it is difficult for him to come into net on anything other than a great approach. There is a very good reason for this - coming into net on a weak approach gives the opponent a clean look at a winner. This is perhaps your ultimate point little duck? Let the opponent feel the pressure and make a mistake? I say this is a good strategy for someone like henman, but not for roger. Not because he is much better at the net than roger (which he is) but because roger is much better at the baseline than henman. The longer a baseline rally goes on the greater henman's chances of winning the point decreases. Hence, henman attacks and tries to induce a mistake. Roger's backcourt skills and court coverage make this a lower percentage play than if he stays back.


But Roger is apparently affraid to open up and realy compete. He doesn't take risks in this respect. What a shame, and hard to understand for such a player. I realy expect Roger to realise this and enter his future matches in a completely competitive state of mind, and not as he is playing passians. It's not about you playing perfect, it's about being better then your oponent! Give them a chance, and proove that you are better!

this is the part of the post I really don't understand. I fail to understand how roger is not competing. Perhaps you don' t like his style? You would like to see him play more of a counter-punching style like Hewitt? Or maybe more of a grind it out style like agassi? I think roger is very competitive these days. He is an all court player that can adjust his game to fit his opponent. If the match indicates he needs to go for winners, then he goes for them, but I don't see roger as a player that goes for the lines on every shot and wins only when he is "on". Maybe in the past, but not in the past 12 months.

To echo some of the posts I've read I think Roger just needs more experience. Roger is just a puppy, and there is no substitute for experience. In the next year or two we will see him grow and figure out his game. He will probably play higher percentage tennis as he ages, but he will still hit spectacular winners, because that is his nature. Experience is not something a coach can give you, it is just something you must go through.

Finally, regarding the Guga match: Guga played brilliantly. Sure the conditions may have given roger problems, but I chalk that upto experience. Center court at Roland Garros is Guga's backyard! The way Guga played that match only Roger's best would've beaten him. Roger was just not able to play his best that day.

RogiFan88
06-01-2004, 04:35 AM
Finally, regarding the Guga match: Guga played brilliantly. Sure the conditions may have given roger problems, but I chalk that upto experience. Center court at Roland Garros is Guga's backyard! The way Guga played that match only Roger's best would've beaten him. Roger was just not able to play his best that day.

Quite right there! Also Guga has this knack of throwing top players off their game, destabilising them and downright frustrating them... he did it when he won all 3 RG titles... and all the while w a smile on his face. It drives his opponents crazy but how can they be mad at him?

Dirk
06-01-2004, 10:03 AM
Roger is alread a smart player and will get smarter. I would just love to stick Duck's ass in a time machine and send him back to the early 90s to pick apart Pete every fucking time he lost a match. Roger had a bad day out there due to Guga, Conditions, and his comfort level on center court. Stop this shit about player's not bringing their best. Roger served and played like shit in the first set with Coria, then he slowly raised his game and that along with Coria's blister (though it was more about Roger) started to beat him in almost every way out there. Coria didn't play his best because Roger didn't allow it. Coria wasn't too damn bad in that first set, but oh no when Roger turns the tide then suddenly its Coria didn't play his best. WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAA :bigcry: I'm sick of hearing that crap. People still try to discredit Roger's wins. Amazing. Oh and if people want to think I'm making excuses for Roger losing to Guga because of the conditions well I will write down the truth about some of Guga's problems and a big loss here at RG. 99 qrt with Andrei. GUGA ONLY LOST BECAUSE OF THE WIND!!!! That is very very on the mark. Guga is bad in the win and it was blowing the whole time in that match which threw his shots off. Guga lost the first set to Alex in the 01 final for the same reason, why clay even blew up in his eyes, but after the wind died so did Alex's chances. Goran RCA semi with Guga in 01. Goran was dominating Guga during the windy conditions. Even had a break in the second set, but after the wind calmed down: Guga's game went up and he won the match. There that should more than cover my ass. :p