White House denies Torture assertion [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

White House denies Torture assertion

Richard_from_Cal
10-04-2007, 06:57 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_terrorismBy LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration on Thursday denied reports that a secret Justice Department opinion in 2005 cleared the way for the return of painful interrogation tactics or superseded U.S. anti-torture law.


"This country does not torture," White House press secretary Dana Perino told reporters. "It is a policy of the United States that we do not torture and we do not."
.more at hyperlink
...above
.....^^^^
........:) :)

mtw
10-05-2007, 04:52 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_terrorism

They deny tortures. They deny genocide and crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan too. They deny that it is a crime. They deny that kidnapping of innocent people is crime. Many usual people were kidnapped: Iranian diplomats, people from Iraq, Afghanistan, other countries, Europeans will have psychological trauma to the end of their life. Bush and his administration call it carrying of democracy and fight against terrorists. It was a similiar politician in Europe. A. Hitler had very similiar methods ( maybe a little bit sharper and he used the same slogans - fight against terrorists and carrying the freedom to Europe. American administration usees the same rhetoric) You know, my press gave informations that a man from Bush administration: A. Gonsales or something alike allowed formally for torturing of people in american camps. It is likely that it is a formal document on it. This is the problems of all genocides and regimes of the world. These poeple don't want to know that they harm other innocent people. It is special, psychological mechanism: denial and it concerns all criminals. They use special rhetoric to excuse their crimes. So, you see how this present american administration is distorted.

Jim Jones
10-05-2007, 07:58 PM
Torture is a necessary evil I support it against terorists. Luckily most nations in developing world use it. I would hate India to become as meek as the corrupt West.

One needs to be hard as steel. Unfortuantely you have people who would not eat met becasue they can't bear the thought that meat used to be an animal. You have people who would shout no war even if their nation was attcked. Bloody libs. I hate their ideology more and more as time goes by.

mtw
10-06-2007, 06:32 PM
Torture is a necessary evil I support it against terorists. Luckily most nations in developing world use it. .

The problem relies upon it that many innocent people, who had no connections with terrorism were illegally captured and tortured and Bush and his administration knew about it very well. There are many people, who are not liked by Bush and his psychopaths for instance these Iranian diplomats ( he does not like Iran ) and other people, who are hold in camps illegally. He created camps on the territory of Europe. Besides his actions and his wars are terroristic and he is one the biggest genocide and terrorist and criminal of present times. He should understand it at last.

laure xxx
10-07-2007, 06:13 AM
Torture is a necessary evil I support it against terorists. Luckily most nations in developing world use it. I would hate India to become as meek as the corrupt West.

One needs to be hard as steel. Unfortuantely you have people who would not eat met becasue they can't bear the thought that meat used to be an animal. You have people who would shout no war even if their nation was attcked. Bloody libs. I hate their ideology more and more as time goes by.

:speakles:

Do you realise that American interrogators have discovered ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF VALUE from torturing people at Guantánamo? As for the rest of your post....ugh. It's people like you who put people like Bush in power.

Bilbo
10-07-2007, 11:40 AM
Jim Jones thinks like Bush

mtw
10-07-2007, 12:40 PM
This utterance of Bush is not so unambigous. For me it is totally illogical, what this man says. It is very hypocritical man. He said that people were not tortured in these camps ( it is known that they were tortured and humilitated - there are proofs on it, it was given in every public TV of this world and some people for instance Iranian diplomats were captured in the last time too ), but he supports methods of CIA. And these methods of CIA are illegal and it is just illegal kidnappinig of people and tortures in illegal camps. So what nonsenses does this man talk? This man created real regime based on hypocrisy. Notions are completely mixed: the truth with the lie. He and his cooperators use another dictionary:
illegal, occupying war, will of conquer of another country with destroying of it ( no gas, no electricity, no sewage system, milions of people exiled, about milion killed- in dictionary of Bush it is- carrying of democracy and freedom to people. Illegal kidnapping and torturing of other people is in Bush's dictionary - using of methods of CIA, which are supported by him.
And the last thing, who was said by BUsh - he condemned such people, who wants to obtain political profits killing of other people. Does it meant that he condemns his own person? Because he makes. He kills and harms people to obtain political profits.

G4.
10-07-2007, 12:50 PM
cynicism, nothing illogical

Jim Jones
10-07-2007, 01:36 PM
:speakles:

Do you realise that American interrogators have discovered ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF VALUE from torturing people at Guantánamo? As for the rest of your post....ugh. It's people like you who put people like Bush in power.
I am not American so Bush would come to power regardless of what I think and contrary to some I do not think about Bush or other American leader day in and day out. The best political system I like is that of Japan not the U.S. I even prefer the Swiss system to that of the American one. With Swiss system it is the federal council that holds power and all major groups are represented. So the right, left and center always have a voice.
U.S. system though is better then most systems in the world, I recognize that. But authorities should have a little more authority over the nation, that's my opinion anyways.

I find it laughable when people say that terrorists in Gitmo bay are tortured. I suggest you go to prisons in Middle East for you to see what torture is really about and yes I prefer terrorists like Sheik Mohammed to be in Gitmo bay rather than U.S. where he would have an armada of lawyers at his side and where the trial would turn into a farce.

I may hate liberals ystem but I do not hate people whoa re liberals. People come in all shapes and sizes. What we all want is a better society for us and our children. In this we share a common goal.

G4.
10-07-2007, 02:15 PM
not all are terrorists, that is the problem , many have been released without charges, and probably more are being held there without any evidence.

Bilbo
10-07-2007, 02:23 PM
I find it laughable when people say that terrorists in Gitmo bay are tortured. I suggest you go to prisons in Middle East for you to see what torture is really about and yes I prefer terrorists like Sheik Mohammed to be in Gitmo bay rather than U.S. where he would have an armada of lawyers at his side and where the trial would turn into a farce.

I may hate liberals ystem but I do not hate people whoa re liberals. People come in all shapes and sizes. What we all want is a better society for us and our children. In this we share a common goal.

You haven't mentioned that the US decides who is a terrorist and who not. What is the definition of a terrorist? Many people see Bush as a terrorist too.

Also many people held by the US are far of being terrorists.

Jim Jones
10-07-2007, 03:46 PM
You haven't mentioned that the US decides who is a terrorist and who not. What is the definition of a terrorist? Many people see Bush as a terrorist too.

Also many people held by the US are far of being terrorists.

With regards to 'Jim Jones thinks like Bush'

I don't know if I do or don't but I respect the guy for sure. But actually I think like Ibn Saud. He conquered and assimilated people he conquered. He used dipolomacy and was a cunning leader. He married women from different tribes and used this and his religion to unite different lands into one country.

Violence begets violence. I always believd in the notion, eye for an eye. Sounds harsh to you people in the West but this is the nature of the beast.

Yes the prisoners in gitmo bay are all innocent. ;)

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-07-2007, 05:23 PM
Shoot every right wing politician in the world.

Then we will have peace.

Bush, Osama and company will all be gone and they can continue their insane fight in hell.

Stgobaiano
10-09-2007, 03:18 AM
Shoot every right wing politician in the world.

Then we will have peace.

Bush, Osama and company will all be gone and they can continue their insane fight in hell.

:worship:

mtw
10-09-2007, 10:44 AM
It is known and it was given publicly on TV that americans and anglons tortured and humilitated people in their illegal camps. It is likely that there were illegal camps in the territory of Europe, there people were hold and tortured. It will be brought to light in the future. Many people were kidnapped, tortured, forced to evidences because a primitive soldier, cia-fuzz thought that he has a terrorist. Of course the main perpetrators of these crimes are main politicians of USA and GB. They foment hatred against these people.
It was a small interview with a primitive british soldier and he was asked where does he know from that a man is Iranian and not for instance Iraqi. And the bloke has said that this concrete man spoke faster and it is proof that it is Iranian. It could be a member of tribe and spoke with dialect. For me it is funny to base relations on a talk with a primitive soldier, who can make nothing in his life except killing people. These primitive soldiers can not even speak good English and they would have difficulties with distuinguish Welsh from Polish but he can distuinguish Persian from Arabian language. Thinking logically. What interests could have Iranians in Iraq ? Why should they risk their lifes to go through a desert from a safe country to the state absorbed in bloody war to kill a one or a few stupid, primitive american or british privates soldiers knowing that there are so many militiants groups that they could be killed on the way to the purpose? It is totally stupidity and it is a proof not only for cynicism but unusual backwardness of people, who contrived this idea.
Never mind. They make laughing stock of theirselves and sentences of Bush are quoted everywhere in funny sites. What kind of people could elect such bloke for president? It is not only genocide but clown too. It could be really funny ( for instance his soldiers on the desert with 2 big deserted barrels after a paint or something alike -,,Here was biological weapon,, - in opinion of these soldiers), if they would not kill 1 mln people by opportunity, destroyed a country, kidnapped, tortured and hold tousends of people illegally on the fictional charges.
When does this madman end his wars and release all people, who are hold there on the fictional charges ( for instance Iranian diplomats or orher innocent people, who sit there ). When does this man and his fellows intend to stop commiting and continuing his crimes against humanity? Does he really not feel and understand, what he did?

Bilbo
10-09-2007, 11:36 AM
Violence begets violence. I always believd in the notion, eye for an eye. Sounds harsh to you people in the West but this is the nature of the beast.

Are you serious? All these Americans can do is bomb countries from the air. They don't even know what eye on eye means.

buddyholly
10-09-2007, 03:57 PM
Are you serious? All these Americans can do is bomb countries from the air. They don't even know what eye on eye means.

And it appears you don't know either.:haha:

Sparko1030
10-10-2007, 05:14 AM
As a person who was born and lived all my life in the US, the fact that our sorry excuse for a president has allowed torture makes me want to cry- I feel my country has been hijacked from me by the Bush henchmen.

By employing torture, (and I know there is much worse torture that goes on in other parts of the world-that is beside the point) we lower ourselves to the level of those we claim to be better than, the terrorists. We dont' even know if these prisoners are terrorists. They arent' allowed lawyers or a day in court. To treat anyone like that, esp someone who may be innocent, is so not what the US is about (in theory-what we strive for anyway). Gonzales will rot in hell for this alone. Bush is an idiot who probably believes what he says, but the people advising him are pure evil.

An eye for an eye only begets more violence. How is that working around the world where it is employed???? Israel is a bastion of peace these days then huh??? Yeah, that's the sure road to peace.....

On a pratical level, this torture is wrong for the harm is could cause for US prisoners of war. We want our soldiers in the same position to be treated by the rules of the Geneva Convention. How can we demand humane treatment for our troops when we deny it for these "detainees"?

This treatment of these prisoners is like a cancer. Allowed to continue, it will eat at our(US) insides. If humnan life and huamn dignity become meaningless to us, if we are willing to sacrifice our supposed deepest values, then the terrorists have already won.....

mtw
10-10-2007, 04:36 PM
As a person who was born and lived all my life in the US, the fact that our sorry excuse for a president has allowed torture makes me want to cry- I feel my country has been hijacked from me by the Bush henchmen.

By employing torture, (and I know there is much worse torture that goes on in other parts of the world-that is beside the point) we lower ourselves to the level of those we claim to be better than, the terrorists. We dont' even know if these prisoners are terrorists. They arent' allowed lawyers or a day in court. To treat anyone like that, esp someone who may be innocent, is so not what the US is about (in theory-what we strive for anyway). Gonzales will rot in hell for this alone. Bush is an idiot who probably believes what he says, but the people advising him are pure evil.

An eye for an eye only begets more violence. How is that working around the world where it is employed???? Israel is a bastion of peace these days then huh??? Yeah, that's the sure road to peace.....

On a pratical level, this torture is wrong for the harm is could cause for US prisoners of war. We want our soldiers in the same position to be treated by the rules of the Geneva Convention. How can we demand humane treatment for our troops when we deny it for these "detainees"?

This treatment of these prisoners is like a cancer. Allowed to continue, it will eat at our(US) insides. If humnan life and huamn dignity become meaningless to us, if we are willing to sacrifice our supposed deepest values, then the terrorists have already won.....

Yes, it is quite good post. Besides I believe personally that some of these terrorists are the fuzzes of CIA and they get money from organisation. Some people suppose that these terroristic attacks ( all these hatred against people of oriental origin is based on this one terroristic attack in N.Y. and these illegal american and not only american wars are apparently the response for terroristic attacks ) were planned by CIA and present ,,great,, american administration to conquer Middle East ( Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and maybe some others ). They had to induce such hatred against these oriental people to force soldiers to such attacks and deceive the world. Such wars would be not accepted without ,,big incident,,. You see that idiots of other countries are involved in these illegal wars too. Why? To conquer petroleum for USA? They must know that it was thought out as petroleum for USA and not for other countries. They are useful only presently as donor of cannor - fodder and then they will go to glory-hole after conquering of oil, what will never happen. So they will go to glory - hole such simply.
I don't agree in the case of Bush. I think that it is core of a darkness of this world around, which all possible scoundrels of the world are concentrated. Besides he choses such people, as he is. If he would be only very simple man, he could chose normal, intelligent people, but he is as a person dishonest and he sorrounds with dishonest persons. We can not say that people, who commited genocide, crimes against humanity are only are stupid. They are criminals, but not stupid. And such people There are no normal person in this administration.

Jim Jones
10-10-2007, 08:10 PM
Are you serious? All these Americans can do is bomb countries from the air. They don't even know what eye on eye means.

This is why nations like India can do their wars in peace without having anti war organizations cause havoc. In India there are anti war groups but they are not as prominent or dare I say powerful as they are in the West. When we hads the limited war in kargil there ware no NO WAR signs. The Kashmir conflict is still going on yet we do not have anti war groups pestering us. Now Kashmir conflict is les then before because Pakistan is pre-occupied with their own extremists.

tangerine_dream
10-11-2007, 07:32 PM
Bush has it all wrong. Instead of torturing terror supsects he should do what Ahmadinejad does and kill all the gay people. That would be more acceptable to MTFers here.

mtw
10-13-2007, 11:26 AM
Bush has it all wrong. Instead of torturing terror supsects he should do what Ahmadinejad does and kill all the gay people. That would be more acceptable to MTFers here.

Ahmadinejad does not kill all gay persons. It is total rubbish. It should have be think out by american administration ( maybe sen. Craig )showing how stupid and primitive are these people, who thouhgt it out and believe in it. Maybe Iranians have factical no such problems with gays as some Europeand countries and USA. It seems that it is marginal problem there. It is another culture of people and sexuality is not so exposed there as here in USA or Europe. Our so called culture and especially west-countries culture is very consumer, materialist. All is pitched here. People are consumers. And human sexuality was pitched too as article. It is article, which is good sold, because it gives pleasure. You can imagine that sexuality in Iran is tabu thema.It is not for sale for public. And this problem is lesser there. Homosexualism is no accepted publicly there. Besides I heard that they killed 2 criminals, who ***** and killed child of the same gender.How do you think, what should be done with paedophiles? They have sharp law in Iran and it is not the blame of this one concrete president? What should he do in this case? Should he forgive this crime to paedophiles and murderers? What is done with such people in USA? Do these crimes forgive to them? Are they in this great present administration?
Besides it is subject about illegal kidnapping and tortures of innocent people commited by Americans from USA. For instance in the last time they kidnapped a journalist ( of course Iranian- English or something alike ), who were tortured and threaten by americans psychos.

Bilbo
10-13-2007, 12:02 PM
Bush has it all wrong. Instead of torturing terror supsects he should do what Ahmadinejad does and kill all the gay people. That would be more acceptable to MTFers here.

homosexuals are not allowed in islam but i don't think he's killing them. if so we would have heard about that long time ago.

Lillith
10-16-2007, 06:06 AM
Torture is a necessary evil I support it against terorists. Luckily most nations in developing world use it. I would hate India to become as meek as the corrupt West.

One needs to be hard as steel. Unfortuantely you have people who would not eat met becasue they can't bear the thought that meat used to be an animal. You have people who would shout no war even if their nation was attcked. Bloody libs. I hate their ideology more and more as time goes by.


Interrogation through torture has proven time and again to be absoltely useless as a tool to gain information- at least good, accurate information. Studies have clearly demonstrated that people will tell you anything you want to hear when they are being tortured, they will accuse their loved ones and confess to crimes they could not have committed.

And if you support torture for torture's sake regardless of its efficacy, then you might be more like your namesake than I would have imagined.

G4.
10-16-2007, 10:25 AM
Interrogation through torture has proven time and again to be absoltely useless as a tool to gain information

exactly , the french learnt it the hard way in Algeria , even though they were torture experts at that time

mtw
10-16-2007, 06:10 PM
Of course. These innocent and maybe even not innocent people were tortured. These people were humilitaded in different way ( there were shocking photos on it )It is indisputable fact supported by proofs. It should never have place alike these wars. But it happened and what? The criminals, who commited these crimes should be punished, the illegal wars and illegal kidnapping and torturing of innocent people should be immediately over.