Metz R2: Stefan Koubek loses to Grosjean 5-7 7-6 4-2 by default/disqualification [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Metz R2: Stefan Koubek loses to Grosjean 5-7 7-6 4-2 by default/disqualification

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 01:38 PM
I wonder what happened here.

Leading the match as well makes it worse.

martine2
10-04-2007, 01:39 PM
I wonder what happened here.

Me too. I was hoping you'd know more.

TankingTheSet
10-04-2007, 01:40 PM
Holy shit. Maybe it was a normal retirement and the scoreboard isn't right. But freakish for sure.

krystlel
10-04-2007, 01:40 PM
I'm extremely curious as to what happened.

That's highly controversial to default Koubek like that while he was leading, especially at Grosjean's home tournament. Unless if he hit a ballgirl or something.

madmanfool
10-04-2007, 01:41 PM
Default? You mean, no retirement, but he was excluded??

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 01:41 PM
I wonder if he had warnings and got an extra one was defaulted on that rule.

Was Norm Chryst in the chair?

LeChuck
10-04-2007, 01:42 PM
I don't what happened, but Koubek getting into a winning position and then being defaulted sucks. I will be interested to find out what the reason was.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 01:42 PM
Default? You mean, no retirement, but he was excluded??

I mean exactly as it says. I would have put retirement in the thread title.

Mr Brightside
10-04-2007, 01:43 PM
I'm extremely curious as to what happened.

That's highly controversial to default Koubek like that while he was leading, especially at Grosjean's home tournament. Unless if he hit a ballgirl or something.

like Rodionova did 2-3 months ago?:tape:

krystlel
10-04-2007, 01:45 PM
like Rodionova did 2-3 months ago?:tape:
I don't know. I haven't heard of Rodionova doing that. But she got disqualified for hitting a ball into the stands intentionally in the direction of her opponent's supporters, I think.

eieieishockey
10-04-2007, 01:47 PM
http://www.opendemoselle.com/site/_actualite_detail.php?id_actualite=91

he was disqualified by supervisor Thomas Karlberg.

Interesting...

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 01:48 PM
It doesn't say what he was Dq'd for as of yet.

Yappa
10-04-2007, 01:52 PM
It does.

L'arbitre Steiner jugeait faute une balle visiblement bonne, pour le plus grand désarroi du Français, puis revenait alors sur sa décision, provoquant la colère de son adversaire. L'Autrichien demandait alors le superviseur Thomas Karlberg, qui disqualifiait après différents remous, Koubek. A la surprise générale. Sébastien Grosjean retrouvera Tommy Robredo au prochain tour.

If nobody else does, I'll translate it in a bit.

It seems, that Steiner called a ball, which was clearly in, out. Grosjean wasn't happy, but strangely enough, Steiner then gave in and retracted his decision? Koubek, of course, asked for the supervisor Karlberg, who then disqualified Koubek, since the Austrian was furious like hell.

TankingTheSet
10-04-2007, 01:52 PM
From website:

La dynamique était désormais autrichienne. D'autant plus que Grosjean accusait le coup physiquement. Koubek, avec deux breaks d'entrée (7/5 6/7 0/3), semblait tenir sa proie dans ses filets. Poussé par le public des Arènes, Sébastien Grosjean jetait ses dernières forces dans la bataille et reduisait le score grâce à un jeu blanc sur le service de l'Autrichien (7/5 6/7 2/4). L'invraisemblable se produisait alors sur la mise en jeu du Tricolore. L'arbitre Steiner jugeait faute une balle visiblement bonne, pour le plus grand désarroi du Français, puis revenait alors sur sa décision, provoquant la colère de son adversaire. L'Autrichien demandait alors le superviseur Thomas Karlberg, qui disqualifiait après différents remous, Koubek. A la surprise générale. Sébastien Grosjean retrouvera Tommy Robredo au prochain tour.

I can't read French well but it looks Koubek went mental after an overrule.

leng jai
10-04-2007, 01:55 PM
Roofel.

jitterbug
10-04-2007, 01:56 PM
If I'm not mistaken, that paragraph said that the umpire called out a shot by Grosjean that was actually in. Then after a while he overturned it, and Koubek got upset and insisted on calling the tournament supervisor... who ended up disqualifying him.

Sorry, my French is pretty rudimentary.

Yappa
10-04-2007, 01:57 PM
Exactly. Koubek must have said some very harsh things, which led to him being disqualified.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 01:57 PM
Got to love it. Steiner is the umpire with no balls during the Nadal/Grosjean match where the RG crowd booed for about 5 minutes and he couldn't control them.

Of course if this was a top 10 player, they wouldn't have got defaulted. A bit of controversy, good for the game.

Too bad Koubek.

Yappa
10-04-2007, 02:00 PM
So any fellow french MTFer with "Paris Premiere" coverage? That's the french channel which was broadcasting the match. :)

MariaV
10-04-2007, 02:00 PM
Got to love it. Steiner is the umpire with no balls during the Nadal/Grosjean match where the RG crowd booed for about 5 minutes and he couldn't control them.

Of course if this was a top 10 player, they wouldn't have got defaulted. A bit of controversy, good for the game.

Too bad Koubek.

Hehe, Damien Steiner at it again, and again in a match featuring Grosjean.

jitterbug
10-04-2007, 02:03 PM
Hehe, Damien Steiner at it again, and again in a match featuring Grosjean.

Conspiracy theory? :aplot: :p

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 02:03 PM
Hehe, Damien Steiner at it again, and again in a match featuring Grosjean.

Not saying what Koubek did was right at all. I remember Roddick abusing an umpire for 5 minutes against Van Lottum in Scottsdale and of course he didn't get defaulted, but this is not surprising.

Imagine if this was Malisse, he'd have got a 1 year suspension.

MariaV
10-04-2007, 02:05 PM
Conspiracy theory? :aplot: :p

Naah, more of a coincidence of a bad umpire and a home player that just happens to be Grosjean again. :lol:

jitterbug
10-04-2007, 02:07 PM
Naah, more of a coincidence of a bad umpire and a home player that just happens to be Grosjean again. :lol:

Dang, was hoping it was the former :lol: :hug: :p

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 02:09 PM
Dang, was hoping it was the former :lol: :hug: :p

No need Steiner is almost as bad Chryst. But the evidence is there for his high level of skill.

Julio
10-04-2007, 02:11 PM
Not saying what Koubek did was right at all. I remember Roddick abusing an umpire for 5 minutes against Van Lottum in Scottsdale and of course he didn't get defaulted, but this is not surprising.

Imagine if this was Malisse, he'd have got a 1 year suspension.

You're a fan of Stefan, GHW ? ;)

MariaV
10-04-2007, 02:13 PM
Of course I don't justify Koubek's outburst or abusing the ump in general but that's just funny if Steiner again first called it out and then overruled giving in to Grosjean. Weak umpiring. Or was it the line judge who called it out?

Truc
10-04-2007, 02:16 PM
Here's another version:
Tout est parti d'un coup droit litigieux frappé par l'Autrichien. Le juge de ligne était masqué par Grosjean, et l'arbitre de chaise n'avait lui pas bien vu la balle et a proposé de remettre le point. Au grand dam de Koubek qui a fait appeler le superviseur. Au terme d'une discussion houleuse, ce dernier a enjoint le gaucher de reprendre le jeu. Koubek s'est alors fendu d'une insulte au superviseur, qui a demandé à l'arbitre de le disqualifier.
http://www.fft.fr/open-de-moselle/2007/?id=3199

Koubek hit a close forehand, the line judge couldn't see the ball because of Grosjean and the chair umpire who had not seen the ball clearly "suggested" to replay the point. Koubek got upset and called the supervisor. After a "stormy" discussion, the supervisor told Koubek to resume the match. Koubek insulted him and the supervisor asked the chair umpire to disqualify him.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 02:17 PM
You're a fan of Stefan, GHW ? ;)

Not relevant whether I am or not. We don't know what was said, but we know that the top ones always get away with shit like this. If he deserved to get defaulted, then so be it.

buddyholly
10-04-2007, 02:18 PM
If the umpire called it out, then it would seem the linesman called it in and the umpire overruled. So then the umpire overruled himself? Any other known cases of that happening?

Burrow
10-04-2007, 02:19 PM
What was the score in this game and who was serving?

jitterbug
10-04-2007, 02:19 PM
Here's another version:
Tout est parti d'un coup droit litigieux frappé par l'Autrichien. Le juge de ligne était masqué par Grosjean, et l'arbitre de chaise n'avait lui pas bien vu la balle et a proposé de remettre le point. Au grand dam de Koubek qui a fait appeler le superviseur. Au terme d'une discussion houleuse, ce dernier a enjoint le gaucher de reprendre le jeu. Koubek s'est alors fendu d'une insulte au superviseur, qui a demandé à l'arbitre de le disqualifier.
http://www.fft.fr/open-de-moselle/2007/?id=3199

Koubek hit a close forehand, the line judge couldn't see the ball because of Grosjean and the chair umpire who had not seen the ball clearly "suggested" to replay the point. Koubek got upset and called the supervisor. After a "stormy" discussion, the supervisor told Koubek to resume the match. Koubek insulted him and the supervisor asked the chair umpire to disqualify him.

That sounds more plausible.

Truc
10-04-2007, 02:20 PM
If the umpire called it out, then it would seem the linesman called it in and the umpire overruled. So then the umpire overruled himself?In the report of the tournament website, it sounds like the chair umpire overruled himself, yes.
The report I just quoted gives a slightly different version of the story.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 02:21 PM
What was the score in this game and who was serving?

Koubek was serving and it gave Grosjean a break back as Koubek had 2 breaks.

Truc, thanks for the posting that version.

buddyholly
10-04-2007, 02:21 PM
Here's another version:
Tout est parti d'un coup droit litigieux frappé par l'Autrichien. Le juge de ligne était masqué par Grosjean, et l'arbitre de chaise n'avait lui pas bien vu la balle et a proposé de remettre le point. Au grand dam de Koubek qui a fait appeler le superviseur. Au terme d'une discussion houleuse, ce dernier a enjoint le gaucher de reprendre le jeu. Koubek s'est alors fendu d'une insulte au superviseur, qui a demandé à l'arbitre de le disqualifier.
http://www.fft.fr/open-de-moselle/2007/?id=3199

Koubek hit a close forehand, the line judge couldn't see the ball because of Grosjean and the chair umpire who had not seen the ball clearly "suggested" to replay the point. Koubek got upset and called the supervisor. After a "stormy" discussion, the supervisor told Koubek to resume the match. Koubek insulted him and the supervisor asked the chair umpire to disqualify him.

Now that seems more reasonable. I found it hard to imagine an umpire making a fool of himself by overruling himself.

Yappa
10-04-2007, 02:31 PM
Thanks for posting that, Truc. Makes a lot more sense now.

Medina
10-04-2007, 02:32 PM
Now that seems more reasonable. I found it hard to imagine an umpire making a fool of himself by overruling himself.

Thats what i was thinking :cool:

Its a bit strange, the second one this year including rodionova :help:

ReturnWinner
10-04-2007, 02:40 PM
Stefan, what a tool :sad:

Gulliver
10-04-2007, 02:45 PM
It is still strange. Sounds to me that Grosjean thought the ball was out, but neither linesman nor umpire could tell. Umpire obviously bowed to Grosjean's "complaint" and said replay the point. That's why Koubek called the supervisor - crucial, as it would have given Grosjean a break back. No call from two officials for whatever reason = ball in IMO.

JMG
10-04-2007, 02:47 PM
Koubek has a blog on tennisweb.at, maybe he will tell more about it this evening. :D

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 02:49 PM
It is still strange. Sounds to me that Grosjean thought the ball was out, but neither linesman nor umpire could tell. Umpire obviously bowed to Grosjean's "complaint" and said replay the point. That's why Koubek called the supervisor - crucial, as it would have given Grosjean a break back. No call from two officials for whatever reason = ball in IMO.

Well as I said Steiner and Grosjean have some history already. I just wish these penalties were dealt out fairly irrespective of name.

Julio
10-04-2007, 03:01 PM
Not relevant whether I am or not. We don't know what was said, but we know that the top ones always get away with shit like this. If he deserved to get defaulted, then so be it.

It's sure that we need to see video of this incident before writing :
"Of course if this was a top 10 player, they wouldn't have got defaulted. A bit of controversy, good for the game."

;)

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 03:03 PM
It's sure that we need to see video of this incident before writing :
"Of course if this was a top 10 player, they wouldn't have got defaulted. A bit of controversy, good for the game."

;)

What I gave the Roddick example and the 5 minute tirade at the umpire. Top 10 player, you have the name, the event and there was no default was there :)

Truc
10-04-2007, 03:10 PM
I don't know which version is true, the other match reports I've read seem to say the chair umpire did overrule himself.

The tournament website now says that Koubek won't be suspended and can play in Vienna next week. He will be only fined:
Koubek pourra néanmoins jouer chez lui la semaine prochaine à Vienne. Il ne sera pas suspendu mais devra verser une amende.
http://www.opendemoselle.com/site/_actualite_detail.php?id_actualite=91

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 03:11 PM
Thanks for all the updates Truc.

I thought they were going try Koubek in kangaroo court.

juvvi
10-04-2007, 03:16 PM
Its sad.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 03:19 PM
That's old news that one. He hasn't written about this incident yet. That came straight from an Austrian newspaper.

http://www.kurier.at/sport/weiteresportarten/113082.php

Koubek zuckte aus: Disqualifikation
Der Kärntner holte bei eigener Führung den Supervisor auf den Platz und wurde dabei so ausfällig, dass er disqualifiziert wurde.

Stefan Koubek ist am Donnerstag im Achtelfinale von Metz der Kragen geplatzt. Sein Auszucker hat ihn einen durchaus möglichen Einzug ins Viertelfinale des ATP-Turniers gekostet.

Der 30-jährige Kärntner lag gegen den Lokalmatador Sebastien Grosjean mit 5:7,7:6(4),4:2 voran, als er zu Beginn des siebenten Games nach einem strittigen Outball den Supervisor auf den Platz holte. Laut ersten Informationen aus dem Pressezentrum wurde Koubek offenbar so ausfällig, dass der Funktionär den Kärntner disqualifizierte.

Koubek war schon einmal auf französischem Boden disqualifiziert worden. Bei dem Kärntner brannten im Juni 2000 ausgerechnet bei den French Open in Paris im Zweitrundenmatch gegen den Ungarn Attila Savolt die Sicherungen durch. Nach mehreren Disputen warf er den Schläger und dieser traf (unbeabsichtigt) einen Ballbuben an der Schulter.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 03:20 PM
So we can conclude that the racquet throwing of koubek was the reason for disqualification.

For the one in 2000, not the one here.

Julio
10-04-2007, 03:24 PM
What I gave the Roddick example and the 5 minute tirade at the umpire. Top 10 player, you have the name, the event and there was no default was there :)

tirade (tirades plural) : A tirad is a long angry speech in which someone criticizes a person or thing.
From Collins Cobuild.

In official site, we can read : "L'Autrichien demandait alors le superviseur Thomas Karlberg, qui le disqualifiait pour "propos outrageants".

We can easily imagine what Koubek said to Karlberg... :o Nothing to do with a tirade.

I remember of Roddick having a tirade too but it was with Mohamed Lahyani :
"99 percent you said !!! 99 per cent !!! you said 99 per cent !!!" :lol:

fabolous
10-04-2007, 03:25 PM
i'll wait for a koubek interview to get the exact wording. it must have been really offensive language.

about the incident: some papers say the umpire overruled himself, some write another version like he wanted to repeat the point :shrug:

Deboogle!.
10-04-2007, 03:25 PM
What I gave the Roddick example and the 5 minute tirade at the umpire. Top 10 player, you have the name, the event and there was no default was there :)But you don't get DQed just for having a "tirade" - you get DQed for saying things that cross the line. I've never read any account of what exactly Roddick said in that match, and I was IN Scottsdale at the time and went to the tournament the next day. Andy has a lot of tirades, and a lot of people here bag on him for it (including myself when I feel like it's too much) but he's never said anything so egregious to warrant cries for disqualification, even here on MTF. And it seems like we don't know exactly what was said today either. So how can you accuse of special treatment, when you don't even know exactly what was said at either instance? You can assume special treatment exists - which you obviously do - but where is the proof?

Merton
10-04-2007, 03:26 PM
Too bad for Koubek, the rules are clear enough but they are not equally applied to all players. I can recall some Agassi matches as well :tape:

I am pleasantly surprised that Mr. Disney will not make an example out of Koubek.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 03:28 PM
tirade (tirades plural) : A tirad is a long angry speech in which someone criticizes a person or thing.
From Collins Cobuild.

In official site, we can read : "L'Autrichien demandait alors le superviseur Thomas Karlberg, qui le disqualifiait pour "propos outrageants".

We can easily imagine what Koubek said to Karlberg... :o Nothing to do with a tirade.

I remember of Roddick having a tirade too but it was with Mohamed Lahyani :
"99 percent you said !!! 99 per cent !!! you said 99 per cent !!!" :lol:

What did Koubek actually say? Nalbandian held up play for 10 mins in Halle with discussing the issues at the time. Where was the default there? That's right there wasn't one.

It doesn't matter who is in the chair really, they should apply the penalties the same way, but they don't.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 03:33 PM
But you don't get DQed just for having a "tirade" - you get DQed for saying things that cross the line. I've never read any account of what exactly Roddick said in that match, and I was IN Scottsdale at the time and went to the tournament the next day. Andy has a lot of tirades, and a lot of people here bag on him for it (including myself when I feel like it's too much) but he's never said anything so egregious to warrant cries for disqualification, even here on MTF. And it seems like we don't know exactly what was said today either. So how can you accuse of special treatment, when you don't even know exactly what was said at either instance? You can assume special treatment exists - which you obviously do - but where is the proof?

Please don't tell me that these rules are applied fairly across the board. If you do then you believe in Santa Claus. Agassi is another one who got away with a lot of crap and Nalbandian with his 10 minute show in Halle.

Koubek and Malisse were made examples of. As I said many times, but of course people miss it. If he deserved to go for what he said then fine, but show some consistency. When they actually default a top player when deserved then I will believe favourtism is likely to exist.

jonny84
10-04-2007, 03:33 PM
Must be a nightmare for Koubek but you know as a professional tennis player you doi need to be professional and just hold your head up high when calls dont go your way. Thats the nature of tennis in some aspects.

Bilbo
10-04-2007, 03:57 PM
typical koubek

one of few players besides malisse who can freak out like that

tangerine_dream
10-04-2007, 03:59 PM
What is it with Steiner and Grosjean matches? Koubek should have kept his mouth shut, he got himself DQ'd by insulting he supervisor. And Steiner is a wuss of a chair umpire. He needs to grow a pair.

I remember Roddick abusing an umpire for 5 minutes against Van Lottum in Scottsdale and of course he didn't get defaulted, but this is not surprising.
Andy wasn't defaulted because he wasn't stupid enough to personally insult the supervisor.

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 04:04 PM
What is it with Steiner and Grosjean matches? Koubek should have kept his mouth shut, he got himself DQ'd by insulting he supervisor. And Steiner is a wuss of a chair umpire. He needs to grow a pair.


Andy wasn't defaulted because he wasn't stupid enough to personally insult the supervisor.

Fair call, but abusing any official should get the same treatment though.

basil333
10-04-2007, 04:07 PM
Apologies if this has already been posted.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6971375,00.html

Austrian Koubek disqualified in Metz
(Adds details, quotes, byline)
By Eric Salliot
METZ, France, Oct 4 (Reuters) - Austrian Stefan Koubek was disqualified from the Metz Open for comments he made to the tournament supervisor during Thursday's match with Sebastien Grosjean of France.
Koubek was leading the second-round encounter 5-7 7-6 4-2 when supervisor Thomas Karlberg ordered the umpire to disqualify him.
"On the first point of the seventh game, on Grosjean's serve, a Koubek forehand close to the baseline gave a 0-15 advantage to Koubek," Karlberg told a news conference.
"But the umpire realised Grosjean was in the way of the line judge, who was therefore unable to judge the point. In this case, the rule is to replay the point.
"Koubek disagreed and asked for the supervisor's intervention. He did not want to accept the rules and used strong language. I told him the match was over and asked the umpire to announce it."
Koubek was also disqualified in the second round of the French Open in 2000 and during qualification for the Paris Open in 2003.
Grosjean next faces top seed Tommy Robredo of Spain in the quarter-finals.
(Writing by Julien Pretot in Paris)

Kolya
10-04-2007, 04:08 PM
Any YouTube clip yet? :lol:

Iván
10-04-2007, 04:09 PM
This will be on youtube very soon.

I can just picture koubek going ape shit.

Lol

Action Jackson
10-04-2007, 04:09 PM
Yes, a clip of this should be uploaded. It seems Koubek and Malisse's previous counts against them.

Corey Feldman
10-04-2007, 05:08 PM
My first v-bet for 6 months on Koubek and this happens..

sounds to me like the supervisor just wanted to make sure the Frenchie progressed further in the Frenchie tournament.

Blue Heart24
10-04-2007, 05:17 PM
Idiot supervisor :mad: :o

LilyRoseAva
10-04-2007, 05:19 PM
So any fellow french MTFer with "Paris Premiere" coverage? That's the french channel which was broadcasting the match. :)

QF (tomorrow), SF, F only on paris premiere

SwiSha
10-04-2007, 08:17 PM
Koubek what a legend

loving it, keep doing what u do Stefan

MariaV
10-04-2007, 08:47 PM
I don't know which version is true, the other match reports I've read seem to say the chair umpire did overrule himself.



Oh dear, this is really ridiculous then, wussy Steiner.

ChinoRios4Ever
10-04-2007, 08:50 PM
WTF Fashionista? :o

no surprise this happens when Steiner is the umpire, what a true troll, he robbed Gonzo in RG 2003 and the Nadal-Grosjean fiasco in RG 2005...

ASP0315
10-04-2007, 08:56 PM
top ten players always get special treatment nothing new there.
Roddick is perfect example. i repeated swears at umpires and referees and line judges and even with the supervisors as the matter of fact.( but what he is top ten player so he gets special treatment.)
Aggassi is another example.

Truc
10-04-2007, 08:56 PM
Oh dear, this is really ridiculous then, wussy Steiner.No, it's sure now that the overruling version is wrong, didn't you see basil333's post? It's been confirmed by the supervisor himself.
There also are interviews of Grosjean where he explains in detail what happened. The line judge immediately made the sign that he couldn't see the ball and when the chair umpire can't make a decision either, they have to replay the point, it's the rule.
Not the umpire is to blame, Koubek made a complete fool of himself. He didn't even lose that point, they were going to replay it. And it was at 0-15 on Grosjean's serve, so definitely not a crucial point.

Gulliver
10-04-2007, 09:06 PM
Grosjean's interview:
"Je suis mené 4 à 2 dans la dernière manche. Et sur le premier point de mon jeu de service, le coup droit de Koubek sort d'au moins 30 centimètres, mais je masque le juge de ligne, qui ne voit donc rien et fait signe à l'arbitre de chaise, qui ne sais pas non plus. Il annonce quand même dans un premier temps la balle bonne, avant de revenir sur sa décision. On remet en effet, selon la règle, deux balles quand les deux arbitres sont incapables de se prononcer. Evidemment, Koubek sort de ses gonds et demande à voir le superviseur. Ce dernier tente de le calmer, mais rien y fait. Il monte alors en régime et pète un plomb d'un seul coup en l'insultant. A ce moment là, je me prépare à servir et puis j'entends l'arbitre donnant un avertissement, puis une disqualification à Koubek. C'est la première fois que je vois cela".
The bit in bold, to me, translates as the umpire saying the ball was in, and then changing his mind, and saying replay the point. Or am I wrong? And Grosjean mentions the amount the ball was out so his attitude, to me, influenced the umpire. No wonder Koubek got mad.

Truc
10-04-2007, 09:24 PM
I'm referring to the audio interview. Grosjean says the line judge put his hands over his eyes to show that he hadn't seen the ball.
Apparently, the chair umpire didn't get that sign first, but when the line judge confirmed he hadn't seen the ball, Steiner applied the rule and said they replay the point.
I think it's ridiculous to get mad for that at that point of the match.

Veronique
10-04-2007, 11:11 PM
I was in Koubek's corner until I read that version of Grosjean which makes lots of sense. So the line judge doesn't see the ball and can't make a call. The chair 1st calls the ball in Koubek's favor, then retracts himself when he understands the lines judge signal. The point isn't going to Grosjean. Just replay the darn point! Koubek is unhappy and calls the supervisor who sides with the chair. I mean, you're leading up a break in the decider 4-2. You still have a chance to break your opponent in this game. Even if he holds, all you need to do is hold 2x more to take the match. Why in the world do you decide to insult the supervisor? That was just dumb. No, Andy doesn't demand to see the supervisor, then insults them.

bjurra
10-04-2007, 11:35 PM
The reason Koubek got so mad was because Steiner had already said "0-15". Then Grosjean rightly pointed to the line judge who was still signaling he didn't see the ball. Steiner then told Koubek that the point would be replayed. It is quite odd for a chair umpire to announce a score and then change his mind after a player complains. I have only seen that once before.

Still incredibly stupid by Koubek. From what I've heard, he said "fuck off" to Karlberg (not confirmed though). I'm sure he was very eloquent anyway.

Gulliver
10-04-2007, 11:52 PM
It is quite odd for a chair umpire to announce a score and then change his mind after a player complainsand that's the crux of it. Line judge didn't see, umpire called the score, then took Grosjean's word and pftt. Hail to Sebastian "Hawkeye" Grosjean.

ufokart
10-04-2007, 11:56 PM
Koubek :smash:

Idiot of me to think he could go far in this tourney :rolleyes: :lol:

bjurra
10-04-2007, 11:59 PM
and that's the crux of it. Line judge didn't see, umpire called the score, then took Grosjean's word and pftt. Hail to Sebastian "Hawkeye" Grosjean.

Had Steiner been awake in his chair, he would have seen the line judge's signal right away, ordered a replay and none of this fun stuff would have happened.

Can't blame Grosjean for complaining under the circumstances, can't blame Steiner either for reversing the decision once he realized his mistake.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 06:48 AM
Steiner should never have called the score, but he is a shithead and has form for poor decisions. I can understand why Koubek got pissed off, even then got to play the calls.

groundstroke
10-05-2007, 06:51 AM
It's happened to him in Roland Garros too I think.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 06:55 AM
It's happened to him in Roland Garros too I think.

Yes, but he was disqualified for hitting a ballkid with a bad racquet throw, just like Coria almost did against Verkerk.

Koubek loves France.

jaybee
10-05-2007, 06:59 AM
For the one in 2000, not the one here.

I can sympathize with Koubek regarding this recent incident but his throwing a racquet at a ballboy is another thing. I used to be a ball kid in a local tennis club in manila and one time a player threw a ball at me on purpose. You never forget that.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 07:01 AM
I can sympathize with Koubek regarding this recent incident but his throwing a racquet at a ballboy is another thing. I used to be a ball kid in a local tennis club in manila and one time a player threw a ball at me on purpose. You never forget that.

He did not throw the racquet at the ballkid. It was like Henman at Wimbledon, he got pissed off hit a ball in frustration down the other end, he hit a ballkid and then he got disqualified.

Coria and Koubek's acts weren't deliberate and neither was Henman's, but Stefan and Henman had to be defaulted.

jaybee
10-05-2007, 07:04 AM
I see. The way it was written on Yahoo sports, it sounded like it was deliberate.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 07:08 AM
Koubek :smash:

Idiot of me to think he could go far in this tourney :rolleyes: :lol:

You aren't the idiot, he had this match going for him, then the brain explosion happened.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 07:11 AM
I see. The way it was written on Yahoo sports, it sounded like it was deliberate.

Use your brains, which player would deliberately throw a racquet a ballkid. Not even Connors, McEnroe at their worst would do something like that. It was not on purpose, but clearly he had to be defaulted.

jaybee
10-05-2007, 07:13 AM
Use your brains. I wrote "I see" to tell you that I stood corrected on that point.

KitinovRules
10-05-2007, 07:13 AM
Not saying what Koubek did was right at all. I remember Roddick abusing an umpire for 5 minutes against Van Lottum in Scottsdale and of course he didn't get defaulted, but this is not surprising.

Imagine if this was Malisse, he'd have got a 1 year suspension.

Not just that.
Probably pressed charges for attempted murder .......

I rememeber Miami and his kind behaviour :o)

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 07:23 AM
Not just that.
Probably pressed charges for attempted murder .......

I rememeber Miami and his kind behaviour :o)

I remember Nalbandian's shenanigans in Halle when he held up play for around 10 minutes and we know Big Dave isn't shy about what he feels. I like him, but he deserved to get a red card that day.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 07:23 AM
Use your brains. I wrote "I see" to tell you that I stood corrected on that point.

Point taken, but honestly who'd throw a racquet a ballkid on purpose?

VolandriFan
10-05-2007, 07:40 AM
Koubek can still afford a few bottles of regaine with the QF prize money ;)

Seb! :yeah: Some form back again?

KitinovRules
10-05-2007, 08:04 AM
Still incredibly stupid by Koubek. From what I've heard, he said "fuck off" to Karlberg (not confirmed though). I'm sure he was very eloquent anyway.

2005 Scotsdale- I think Kiefer against Vince "the dude" Spadea . One very bad decision by guess who in Scotsdale - Norm Chryst and Kiwi to Norm says - "You shut up , you stupid f..k".
And he just got an Warning- code violation.

If Koubek hadn't warning before ,I think that he shoudn't be disqualified.

bjurra
10-05-2007, 08:15 AM
2005 Scotsdale- I think Kiefer against Vince "the dude" Spadea . One very bad decision by guess who in Scotsdale - Norm Chryst and Kiwi to Norm says - "You shut up , you stupid f..k".
And he just got an Warning- code violation.

If Koubek hadn't warning before ,I think that he shoudn't be disqualified.

Old Norm is used to being verbally abused on his job, Karlberg isn't. Koubek should have thought about that.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 08:18 AM
Old Norm is used to being verbally abused on his job, Karlberg isn't. Koubek should have thought about that.

Karlberg shouldn't have had to get involved, but Steiner should be sent back to the Futures or worse womens Futures event.

Mateya
10-05-2007, 10:39 AM
:confused: I cannot believe this.

:retard: supervisor. Why do we have warnings for??

This is not fair. On Koubek´s place I would never ever come close to Metz again. Disqualifing him for this is absurd - we have seen similar or even worse cases.

And now french goes on, despite "loosing" 2-4 in the third. Bastards :mad:

Bilbo
10-05-2007, 10:48 AM
Pretty dumb to freak out like this when you are leading with a break and close to win the match. Not very mature from a 30 years old man. Maybe he's listening too much to metal music to freak out like this :shrug: This kind of music makes you aggressive. But this is another story and doesn't belong here.

I'm pretty sure we won't see Koubek again playing in Metz.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 10:54 AM
Federer listens to AC/DC but seems to handle things quite well. I think Koubek should only play RG in future. The other French events don't seem to work for him.

Corey Feldman
10-05-2007, 11:20 AM
Fed, Koubek and big Pete Lundgren the metal heads of the tour :rocker2: :rocker:

Bilbo
10-05-2007, 11:25 AM
that's why fed loves long hair. but seriously koubek needs to listen to classic or something to chill a bit down. he's a very explosive person.

Action Jackson
10-05-2007, 11:27 AM
Roitman is another metal head. That would be a very good band.

Federer would have to be lead vocalist.
Koubek the angry little drummer
Lundgren on bass
Roitman used to play the piano, but he could play lead guitar.

Corey Feldman
10-05-2007, 11:30 AM
What a band.

but seriously koubek needs to listen to classic or something to chill a bit down. he's a very explosive person.Play some good Beethoven shit from the speakers during the change overs when tempers are flaring in matches eh.

this Bilbo is good.

*M*
10-05-2007, 01:56 PM
Roitman is another metal head. That would be a very good band.

Federer would have to be lead vocalist.
Koubek the angry little drummer
Lundgren on bass
Roitman used to play the piano, but he could play lead guitar.
Didn't you see his "Simply The Best" during RG? :scared:

I say put him on guitar, but I think he'd prefer lead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPz1Cq3l4Tw) over rhythm (he doesn't have much rhythm).

bjurra
10-06-2007, 01:49 PM
Koubek has now written in his blog that he said "fuck you". However he claims he didnt adress Karlberg but was mumbling it to himself, addressing the whole situation. Yeah yeah...

He also wrote that Karlberg is arrogant and generally disliked. Now that I believe.

Action Jackson
10-06-2007, 01:59 PM
Koubek has now written in his blog that he said "fuck you". However he claims he didnt adress Karlberg but was mumbling it to himself, addressing the whole situation. Yeah yeah...

He also wrote that Karlberg is arrogant and generally disliked. Now that I believe.

In other words Karlberg isn't like Mo or Graff then?

bjurra
10-06-2007, 02:18 PM
In other words Karlberg isn't like Mo or Graff then?

I don't know. What are Mo and Graff like?

Xristos
10-06-2007, 02:20 PM
So what happened?

Truc
10-06-2007, 02:47 PM
I can believe he didn't know about the rule when it happened on Thursday, but since he writes his blog entry 2 days later, he sure has looked up the rulebook in the meantime or been told about the rule which was applied here. He confirms the line judge was signaling he was unsighted, so the rulebook is clear about that case, he's embarrassing himself when he keeps talking about the rules (replay only when a player has been hindered and not an umpire, blablabla).
It's normal to be mad about the disqualification without a warning, but he's looking like an idiot when he still can't admit he should have just replayed that stupid point.

Action Jackson
10-06-2007, 02:51 PM
I don't know. What are Mo and Graff like?

Layhani is liked and respected and Lasse Graff has a pretty good reputation.

martine2
10-06-2007, 07:55 PM
Koubek has now written in his blog that he said "fuck you". However he claims he didnt adress Karlberg but was mumbling it to himself, addressing the whole situation. Yeah yeah...

He also wrote that Karlberg is arrogant and generally disliked. Now that I believe.

He has a blog?

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 11:47 AM
This what Koubek wrote.

http://www.tennisfabrik.at/view.php?id=8924

Die Disqualifikation war einfach nur lächerlich.

Zunächst sorry, dass ich mich nicht schneller mit einem Tagebuch gemeldet hab, aber gestern ist es ein bissl turbulent zugegangen. Und vielleicht hätte ich gestern auch noch das eine oder andere weniger hübsche Wort verwendet ... denn die Disqualifikation war einfach nur lächerlich, eine Sauerei.

Alsdann, der Reihe nach: Eine richtig gute Partie mit immer klareren Vorteilen für mich, ich hab im dritten Satz mit zwei Breaks geführt, er hat ein Rebreak gemacht, dann ich ihn wieder gebreakt. 4:2 für mich, er serviert, erster oder zweiter Punkt: Ich spiel den Ball lang und schnell an die Grundlinie, er macht einen Fehler. Der Linienrichter zeigt, dass er den Ball nicht gesehen hat. Grosjean reklamiert, der Schiedsrichter tut nix.

Ich geh auf die andere Seite und will aufschlagen - wenn niemand den Ball out gesehen hat, dann muss es schließlich mein Punkt gewesen sein. Grosjean reklamiert, das Publikum pfeift ... und der Umpire sagt auf einmal, dass wir den Ball wiederholen sollen. Eine lächerliche Entscheidung: Sowas gibt's nicht. Ein Ball wird wiederholt, wenn ein Spieler gestört wird, aber doch nicht, wenn sich der Schiedsrichter nicht sicher ist ...

Ich hab mir das natürlich nicht gefallen lassen, bin zum Umpire gegangen und hab den Supervisor verlangt. Thomas Karlberg ist auch als Zuschauer gleich neben dem Platz gesessen - aber er wollte zuerst gar nicht reinkommen, hat abgewunken. Dann hat er sich doch dazu bequemt, auf den Platz zu gehen ... wer ihn dabei gesehen hat, der versteht vielleicht, warum Karlberg bei manchen Spielern den Ruf eines eitlen, überheblichen, eher nicht soooo wahnsinnig beliebten Kerls hat.

Kurze Diskussion, Karlberg sagt: Der Punkt wird wiederholt. Ich will das aber natürlich weiterhin nicht akzeptieren. Ich verstehe einfach nicht, dass ich dafür büßen muss, wenn die Offiziellen hier einen Scheiß bauen - allerdings war ich in der ganzen Diskussion total normal, nicht laut, kein bösartiges Wort. Dann hat mir Karlberg befohlen, weiterzuspielen. Natürlich ist mir nichts anderes über geblieben, als das zu machen, was er mir befiehlt - auch wenn ich mich extrem unfair behandelt gefühlt hab. Und so hab ich mir beim Aufstehen von der Bank ein "Fuck you" nicht verkneifen können. Es war nicht einmal zum Karlberg gesagt, sondern zu der Situation.

Er hat das offenbar anders verstanden und hat mich sofort vom Platz zurück geholt und disqualifiziert. Ich finde, dass das eine extrem unsportliche Entscheidung war - auch wenn ich natürlich mit dem "Fuck you" nicht unbedingt eine besonders schlaue Aussage gemacht hab. Aber wie gesagt: Es war aus der Situation heraus und nicht gegen den Karlberg persönlich. (Obwohl er's sich für sein Verhalten irgendwie ja verdient hätte.)

Ich ärger mich über die ganze Sache natürlich auch einen Tag danach noch sehr. Aber ändern kann man nix mehr: Wir Spieler sind den Supervisors auf Gedeih und Verderb ausgeliefert. Die können laut Reglement mit uns machen, was ihnen gefällt. - So, aber genug davon. Ich hab auch gestern wieder eine gute Partie hingelegt, hätte ziemlich sicher gewonnen. Die Form passt gut ... und ich hab jede Menge Gründe, mich auf die Stadthalle zu freuen.

leng jai
10-07-2007, 01:14 PM
Tanslation anyone?

amalyn
10-07-2007, 03:49 PM
A quick translation:

Fist, I’m sorry I didn’t write a blog entry sooner, but yesterday was a bit turbulent. And maybe I would have used some not so pretty words yesterday … because the disqualification was ridiculous, unfair.

Well, in order: A really good match that was going my way more and more, I was up two breaks in the third set, he broke back, then I broke his serve again. I’m leading 4:2, he serves, first or second point: I play the ball long and fast to the baseline, he makes an error. The line judge indicates he didn’t see the ball. Grosjean protests, the umpire doesn’t to anything.

I walk to the other side and want to serve – if nobody saw the ball out, it has to have been my point after all. Grosjean protests, the crowd whistles … and suddenly the umpire says we should replay the point. A ridiculous decision: That’s just impossible. A point is replayed when a player is hindered, but not if a judge is not sure …

Of course I wouldn't accept this, I went to the umpire and requested to talk to the supervisor. Thomas Karlsberg was in the crowd directly next to the court – but at first he didn’t want to come onto the court, dismissed it. Then he dained to come onto the court … if you saw him do that, you might understand why Karlberg has a reputation of being a vain, arrogant, rather not so popular guy amongst some players.

Short discussion, Karlberg says, The point will be replayed. Of course I still don’t want to accept that. I just don’t understand why I should be punished for the officials fuck something up – however, I was totally normal during the whole discussion, not loud, not one bad word. Then Karlberg ordered me to continue playing. Of course I had no choice but to do what he tells me – even though I felt extremely unfairly treated. And so I couldn’t I refrain from saying “Fuck you” when I got off the bench. It wasn’t even directed at Karlberg but at the situation.

Apprently, he saw it differently and immediately called me back off the court and disqualified me. I think that was an extremely unfair decision – although of couse saying “Fuck you” wasn’t especially clever of me to say. But like I said: It was situational and not directed at Karlberg personally. (Even though he would have deserved it for his behaviour.)

Of course I’m still very angry about the whole thing even the day after. But I can’t change anything any more: We players are at the mercy of the supervisors no matter what. According to the rules they can do to us whatever they like. – Well, enough of that. I played another good match yesterday and would very probably have won it. My form is alright … and I have a lot of reasons to be looking forward to playing in the Stadthalle.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the translation amalyn and I hope "El Fashionista" can maintain the rage and carry that form through in Vienna.

TankingTheSet
10-07-2007, 06:31 PM
Malisse was banned from playing for a few months when he was defaulted two years ago in Miami (I think).I hope they won't suspend Koubek, at least he is playing in Vienna which is a good sign.

Action Jackson
10-07-2007, 06:36 PM
Malisse was banned from playing for a few months when he was defaulted two years ago in Miami (I think).I hope they won't suspend Koubek, at least he is playing in Vienna which is a good sign.

He hasn't been suspended and I don't think he will be. Yes, that was in Miami where Malisse got suspended.

Henry Chinaski
10-07-2007, 06:40 PM
moya shall feel his wrath.

Mateya
10-07-2007, 06:44 PM
Poor Koubek :hug:
Disqualified for nothing, and by some :retard: arrogant supervisor who probably hasnt played much tennis in his life.

Now use this anger in positive way and rock in Vienna, in your country :rocker2:

Action Jackson
10-09-2007, 03:17 AM
moya shall feel his wrath.

Proven correct.

leng jai
10-09-2007, 08:10 AM
A quick translation:

Appreciated.

Action Jackson
12-14-2007, 03:31 PM
I wonder if Stefan will send Karlberg a Christmas card this year.

Corey Feldman
12-14-2007, 08:58 PM
lol Bilbo and that theory

:lol:

TankingTheSet
12-14-2007, 09:02 PM
Karlberg is on a roll, he repeated the act with Peter Wessels at Helsinki challenger a few weeks later. Similar situation where the player being DQ's was actually leading.

Action Jackson
12-15-2007, 05:15 AM
Karlberg is either a no-nonsense guy or someone who wants to be involved in the action.