Safin admits gamesmanship : Potito is not a junior, he should learn this tricks too [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Safin admits gamesmanship : Potito is not a junior, he should learn this tricks too

TennisLurker
05-29-2004, 11:00 PM
Open-Safin wins match but loses hearts

Sat 29 May, 2004 22:02

By Francois Thomazeau

PARIS, May 29 (Reuters) - Long and loud boos on centre court after his five-set epic against Italian qualifier Potito Starace on Saturday gave a perfect illustration of the emotions provoked by Marat Safin's uncompromising and erratic character.

Only 24 hours earlier, the Russian had been the Parisian crowd's darling after his thrilling five-set victory over Felix Mantilla.

In the four hours 25 minutes of his 6-7 6-4 3-6 7-5 7-5 third-round victory against Starace, the former world number one managed to overturn a seemingly desperate situation but, in the process, to turn 15,000 centre court fans against him.

Safin had made headlines the day before by pulling down his shorts during his win against Mantilla, then criticising officials for spoiling the show by giving him a penalty.

On Saturday, he was the one who spoiled an exciting contest, using old tricks in the hope of denting his young opponent's confidence.

The former U.S. Open champion undoubtedly had eight blisters on his left hand, which hampered his two-handed backhand.

But he did not necessarily need to receive treatment just after saving the first of two match points against him in the fourth set.

"I'm not the kind of person who calls the doctor but then I could not hold the racquet," Safin said.

"I have eight blisters and it was killing me. I showed them to the guy (Starace) because probably he could not believe it."

CRUCIAL POINTS

The crowd did not seem convinced. They jeered and booed for most of the fifth set after the incident.

"It was difficult to explain and to show to everybody that I was injured. But I had to take the break. Why do I have to suffer and lose the match after spending so many hours on court?.

"It makes me sad that people cannot understand such simple things. I hope everybody could see my hands," Safin said.

On disputed and crucial points, Safin pre-empted the umpire's decisions, twice returning to his corner before calls had been made.

Safin was unapologetic about his behaviour.

"He's not a junior," he said of Starace. "We're in the professional ranks. He has to be aware of it. He can do it too."

After more than nine hours on court in three days, the Russian needed six match points to finally wear out the gifted and ice-cool Starace.

But he made it, narrowly avoiding a fourth successive day of action.

The match ended as dusk was falling on centre court and only minutes before another third-round match between Albert Costa and Xavier Malisse was halted because of poor light.

Safin goes on to meet Argentine David Nalbandian for a quarter-final place, probably hoping to make it shorter this time, and win back some hearts.

"At the end of the day, I ended up winning the match. If the crowd understand, great. If not, I'll be here in the next match anyway," he said.


--------------------------------


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


The epidemy of players calling the trainer when their opponents are serving for match continues...

Neely
05-29-2004, 11:19 PM
good job, Marat, not letting the fucking goddamn crowd getting on you! :clap2:

they could boo as much as they want, but Marat went on winning!
I like nothing more than that if a certain player shows the crowd that it's useless to cheer against them. That's real strenght.

great job!

Deboogle!.
05-29-2004, 11:21 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


The epidemy of players calling the trainer when their opponents are serving for match continues...


That actually doesn't get to me nearly as much as the stuff about the line-calling:

"On disputed and crucial points, Safin pre-empted the umpire's decisions, twice returning to his corner before calls had been made.

Safin was unapologetic about his behaviour."

Because there's no excuse for that. I'll buy that he had blisters and maybe something happened to one of them and I can understand that at deuce after saving a match point that you'd want to be as close to 100% healthy as possible, I get that. But pre-empting the ump's calls is purely a mental tactic to throw off his far more inexperienced opponent.

Neely
05-29-2004, 11:22 PM
BTW, your thread title is not correct... Safin didn't admit gamesmanship (at least I couldn't find it in this excerpt!), he said exactly the opposite, that he needed treatment because he couldn't hold the racket any longer.

_____________________

agree with Bunk... pre-empting line calls is really bad :rolleyes:

TennisLurker
05-29-2004, 11:30 PM
On disputed and crucial points, Safin pre-empted the umpire's decisions, twice returning to his corner before calls had been made.

Safin was unapologetic about his behaviour.

"He's not a junior," he said of Starace. "We're in the professional ranks. He has to be aware of it. He can do it too."

Leo
05-29-2004, 11:46 PM
agree with Bunk... pre-empting line calls is really bad :rolleyes:

But it's still the chair umpire's responsibility to not be affected by Safin's move and judge the mark fairly and unbiasedly.

TennisLurker
05-29-2004, 11:55 PM
safin shouldnt be doing that move

tall_one
05-30-2004, 12:02 AM
"On disputed and crucial points, Safin pre-empted the umpire's decisions, twice returning to his corner before calls had been made.
Out of curiousity, was Marat right about the line calls? Were they in his favor?

ktwtennis
05-30-2004, 12:03 AM
He didn't ADMIT to gamesmanship, per se, because he DID have blisters, as he said. However, what he did was probably wrong. But we'll never actually know if calling the trainer affected the match outcome...

Havok
05-30-2004, 12:17 AM
I just love it how he says that he showed his blisters to Starace to show him. Isn't it a little weird that all of a sudden it became so unbearable to continue at such a crucial point :retard:

J. Corwin
05-30-2004, 12:20 AM
I don't mind him calling the trainer. But...I do think it's wrong to pre-empt the umpire's calls.

Deboogle!.
05-30-2004, 01:06 AM
But it's still the chair umpire's responsibility to not be affected by Safin's move and judge the mark fairly and unbiasedly.

I don't think he did it to actually influence the calls. I think he did it to rattle his much more inexperienced opponent. And in that case, it's pretty bad sportsmanship IMO

drf716
05-30-2004, 01:07 AM
gosh! but was POTITo bummed about it?

WyveN
05-30-2004, 01:09 AM
injury time outs should be between games, not during them. If a player is so injured they can't continue the game that game should be given to the opponent. Would solve all the controversy.

Deboogle!.
05-30-2004, 01:13 AM
injury time outs should be between games, not during them. If a player is so injured they can't continue the game that game should be given to the opponent. Would solve all the controversy.

What if someone falls and twists their ankle but with some tape would be able to continue?

Ballbuster
05-30-2004, 01:16 AM
What if someone falls and twists their ankle but with some tape would be able to continue?

Does the tape actually do anything..??? really, my ankle is twisted and now if I put tape on it feels fine? I don't think that's gonna do anything

LCeh
05-30-2004, 01:20 AM
It gives you protection and comfort. For me, when I play basketball I am used to wearing basketball shoes, with their high cuts and ankle support. If I play without them I feel like I might injure my ankles, even though that has never happened.

It definitely helps, you feel more natural and comfortable with a bit of support, but of course it won't totally prevent you from getting injured (again).

Deboogle!.
05-30-2004, 01:29 AM
Does the tape actually do anything..??? really, my ankle is twisted and now if I put tape on it feels fine? I don't think that's gonna do anything

Yea it definitely does. If it's not broken or really sprained that is. Some players out there ALWAYS play with ankle guards because they've had problems in the past or whatever. If a player is like 2 points from victory and they twist it at 30-30 I think they should be allowed to get it taped in the hopes of being as fit as possible to try to finish out the match. Stuff like blisters or minor cramps though, I agree, they can wait til after a full game. But the problem is, who decides what is serious enough to be allowed to be treated mid-game or not? It just seems awfully hazy.

YoursTruly
05-30-2004, 03:36 AM
Wow. Marat has totally done a lot in the media for this year's French Open. LOL. It's like he has this issue everyday now! What's next!?! :rolleyes:

WyveN
05-30-2004, 03:51 AM
What if someone falls and twists their ankle but with some tape would be able to continue?

then you forfeit that one game to get treatment, there should be some penalty. At the very least a point.

drf716
05-30-2004, 04:09 AM
i hope MARAT LOSES won't be your next headline Marat!

¿esquímaux?
05-30-2004, 05:04 AM
"He's not a junior," he said of Starace. "We're in the professional ranks. He has to be aware of it. He can do it too."

:spit: Marat!!! :haha::smash::haha:

shaoyu
05-30-2004, 05:07 AM
Admit it Safin fans, he is no longer sportsmanship. Soon enough Fed would stop calling him a fair player. I hope Safin could realize the error in his ways.

Rex
05-30-2004, 05:20 AM
wow! i wouldn't expect marat to criticise.

tennis_spider
05-30-2004, 05:43 AM
MARAT is gona LOSE next match.............NALI boy is ready with first aid to cure his eight blisters..... :haha: :yeah:

Action Jackson
05-30-2004, 06:04 AM
Blisters are not a condition that need a 3 min injury timeout and neither does cramps, and if a player wants to take an injury timeout not on a change of ends, then go ahead and do it, and lose the particular game.

Marat is getting into the Coria, Robredo and Alberto Martin class with these timeouts and trying to influence the linesmen that is not cool at all and no that is not tactical.

Nalbandian won't beat him, but don't worry when Safin gets beaten, he will do his best not to acknowledge the opponent was better and the apologists will find excuses for his defeat.

lsy
05-30-2004, 07:21 AM
I'm sorry Safin fans, but this guy is just getting very irritating. Complaining about every single thing after each defeat, opponents getting lucky, lousy balls, bad bounce, court condition, don't feel like playing (???), early match time (???) lilke the whole world is against him. Now playing games during matches against an inexperience player? Of course it's all within the allowed rules, nothing wrong, he's doing what he can to win, good for him. But fair player??? I think some of you are absolutely right, he seems to be able to get away with such behaviours while others will be getting shit if behaved anything close like him.

Come on Nalbandian, beat the crap out of this guy and then we'll get to hear what excuses he'll come out with.

warfreakbix
05-30-2004, 07:23 AM
Yeah right, like one misdemeanor charge makes you a criminal. :rolleyes:

A generalization after a couple of matches? (what is that two or three times?) Woweeeeeeeee after about how many matches since 1997? I find it hard to believe that people can tag a particular person after such a small sample, if Marat continues to do this thing after this match and diss his opponents then yes you can call him whatever you want. But please, wait.

I also find it hard to believe that anybody takes Marat's interviews at face value, I always thought that his interviews are tongue in cheek.

Careful George or I might label you a hater. :devil:

Action Jackson
05-30-2004, 07:27 AM
Careful George or I might label you a hater. :devil:

Try me, I double dare you? Considering I actually like Safin, then again have you ever seen me criticise the players I like, so I hate them all, just some less than others. :)

warfreakbix
05-30-2004, 07:34 AM
HATER!!! :devil:

Action Jackson
05-30-2004, 07:35 AM
HATER!!! :devil:

I will reveal your secret that you truly are a Roddick fan, and just decided to jump on the Safin bandwagon.

CooCooCachoo
05-30-2004, 07:43 AM
Well, the Parisian crowds haven't been too supportive but to attack Marat like this is a bit weird. Would've loved to see Starace win it (have liked him for quite some time now.. glad he is finally making it after some great results in Challengers), but Marat is quite a character and it's good to have him in the tournament. Should be interesting: Marat - Nalbandían.

warfreakbix
05-30-2004, 07:49 AM
:bounce:

That I'm not, heh see you have a penchant to label anybody. :p

Anyway, I have been a long time Marat fan and not a bandwagoner and will never jump ship whatever happens. I just HATE labels. Its wrong and I wish people would think before pinning something at a person.

I read most of your post George, and I know you're not one. Maybe a slip?

Action Jackson
05-30-2004, 07:57 AM
:bounce:

That I'm not, heh see you have a penchant to label anybody. :p

Anyway, I have been a long time Marat fan and not a bandwagoner and will never jump ship whatever happens. I just HATE labels. Its wrong and I wish people would think before pinning something at a person.

I read most of your post George, and I know you're not one. Maybe a slip?

I know I think you knew where I was coming from and I don't care who it is, someone I like or not, I don't like these tactics and I have stated my opinion on the abuse of injury timeouts and it's something that needs to be done about it, well the rule is there, but obviously people will look to get an advantage anyway they can.

lsy
05-30-2004, 08:24 AM
Anyway, I have been a long time Marat fan and not a bandwagoner and will never jump ship whatever happens. I just HATE labels. Its wrong and I wish people would think before pinning something at a person.


Labelling is something like all the Spanish players being called the "clay court specialist".

Here people are just critisizing Safin behaviours and his attitudes after each losses for the past few months. Don't appreciate it and stated our opinions. I don't see anything wrong with that.

WyveN
05-30-2004, 09:42 AM
If any player did those actions they deserve criticism, just because it is Safin rather then say Coria or Roddick, doesn't mean it should be ignored.

maratski
05-30-2004, 10:49 AM
Before Marat asked for the time out the game was very tense. Marat made some unforced errors that IMO could have been because of the blisters. He was hitting his balls long and it could have been because he wasn't holding his racquet the way he wanted to. I don't play tennis myself and can't back it up, but unlike others, I've seen this part of the match.

Marat questioned a linecall on game point and was right. The crowd booed him when he was already on his way to his seat, but when the umpire saw Marat was right, the crowd cheered for Marat.

Marat usually behaves like a gentleman on court and is a fair player. All players struggle at times and do things that are questionable. It's professional tennis we're talking about here and what he did was according to the rules of tennis. He was in a position to as for a doctor to come on court. No matter how unfortunate the moment was, blame the ATP and not Marat ;)

drf716
05-30-2004, 12:50 PM
I have a lot respect for Marat, but that's not because of his tennis. It's because of his ways. The way that he is around the tennis court, the way
that he says hello to all the players, the way that other players think he's conducted his life. There's an aura around him, too - a vibe that you get,
that all the players get from him, that is very positive. In the locker room, he's a warm guy and people warm to him. Mats Wilander- 2004 AO
I THINK THIS STILL GOES FOR MARAT THIS IS JUST A MINOR WAVER

Vass
05-30-2004, 03:11 PM
I just love it how he says that he showed his blisters to Starace to show him. Isn't it a little weird that all of a sudden it became so unbearable to continue at such a crucial point :retard:
It migjt be bothering him on other points, but he might not play 100% on those and not disturb the blisters. On match points he needed to play as well as he could, which means "the hell with the wounds, I need to win". Now that one may be unbearable. But I do agree that ther is something to be against in him doing so.

Vass
05-30-2004, 03:18 PM
I'm sorry Safin fans, but this guy is just getting very irritating. Complaining about every single thing after each defeat, opponents getting lucky, lousy balls, bad bounce, court condition, don't feel like playing (???), early match time (???) lilke the whole world is against him.

First, I'll address the luck... Marat seems to believe in fortune 100%, genuinly. When he loses, he says he's unlucky, when he wins he says he is lucky. So luck is not a complaint.

Lousy balls>>> Everyone was complaining, and only he had guts to say it out loud. A bad thing?

Early match time, conditions, don't feeli like playing>>> Cut the crap Marat! Name me one fan that doesn't agree on this.

lsy
05-30-2004, 03:26 PM
First, I'll address the luck... Marat seems to believe in fortune 100%, genuinly. When he loses, he says he's unlucky, when he wins he says he is lucky. So luck is not a complaint.

Not a complain, how about an excuse then?


Lousy balls>>> Everyone was complaining, and only he had guts to say it out loud. A bad thing?

I believe his opponents are playing the same balls to win that match. Besides I watched Gonzo vs Federer matches where both hit great winners off the same balls.


Early match time, conditions, don't feeli like playing>>> Cut the crap Marat! Name me one fan that doesn't agree on this.

I was talking about Safin giving excuses, not his fans.

Vass
05-30-2004, 03:32 PM
Not a complain, how about an excuse then?
What do you call it if he uses "luck" to describe his own wins?


I believe his opponents are playing the same balls to win that match. Besides I watched Gonzo vs Federer matches where both hit great winners off the same balls.
You don't feel like playing, you don't have patience with the balls either. He didn't want to handle it (i'm sure he could if he tried), Roger and Gonzo did. But this goes to the "don't feel like playing" section we all agree on.

lsy
05-30-2004, 03:44 PM
You don't feel like playing, you don't have patience with the balls either. He didn't want to handle it (i'm sure he could if he tried), Roger and Gonzo did. But this goes to the "don't feel like playing" section we all agree on.

And so here I question his professionalism as a player. Talking about didn't feel like playing after a loss? What does that make his opponent? Just a lucky winner against someone who decided not to show up on court :rolleyes:

For your information, I enjoyed watching Safin play and have no doubt he is a popular guy off court. But him always complaining about everything, and that skeptical view as if everything is going against him after losses is irritating.

Of course then I must have not "known" safin as much or as long as you do to judge him otherwise. But please spare me of any other details, when he starts playing great and live up to his reputation as a fair player, I'll have my own eyes to see and judge otherwise.

maratski
05-30-2004, 04:08 PM
It's funny to see all these people criticising a player while they hardly know him. When you've been closely following him for 4 years, then talk, but if you hardly ever watch his matches or don't regularly keep track of them, please shut up!

A lot of fans will agree that he wasn't a gentleman on court yesterday, but name me a player then who has behaved perfectly during EVERY MATCH HE HAS PLAYED. I don't think you can.

Why are you taking quotes out of their context? Hamburg is history and again, if you took note and followed Marat closely, then you'll know the negative interview came cause he had personal problems. Marat keeps saying that he doesn't want to mix business with pleasure, but sometimes he does.

Saying what's on his mind is one of the things that I like about him. Sometimes he might be wrong or cross the line, but usually he's right.

If Marat irritated you, then ignore him. It's not so hard you know ;)

tennis_spider
05-30-2004, 04:47 PM
NALI will beat him.........marat will have ample time to moan & even get hospitalised for his his eight blisters................ :haha: :yeah:

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 04:50 PM
*snort*

Thanks for the laughs, Safin apologists.

You know, I'm a huge Coria fan, but you won't ever hear me make excuses for his behavior. I have said that the rules are there to be taken advantage of, and they are. But that doesn't the fact that it's low class to do so. Ridiculous :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 04:53 PM
It's funny to see all these people criticising a player while they hardly know him. When you've been closely following him for 4 years, then talk, but if you hardly ever watch his matches or don't regularly keep track of them, please shut up!


It's not funnier than seeing people blindly praise and defend a player they don't know. Watching a players matches only tells you so much about them. Whether or not this is the first tournament that Safin has consistently acted like a petulant ass in doesn't change the fact that he's still acting like a petulant ass.

If you don't like people criticizing him, ignore the threads. Don't ask people to ignore him, that's just ridiculous. "Just ignore a segment of the tournament". Uh. Right.

TennisLurker
05-30-2004, 05:11 PM
"At the end of the day, I ended up winning the match. If the crowd understand, great. If not, I'll be here in the next match anyway," he said.


Becca, isnt saying this = to saying "cry me a river, cry me a river"?? ;)

merle
05-30-2004, 05:18 PM
Out of curiousity, was Marat right about the line calls? Were they in his favor?

To give you an answer - of course he was right! He is always better than the judges! :)

Vass
05-30-2004, 05:21 PM
It's not funnier than seeing people blindly praise and defend a player they don't know. Watching a players matches only tells you so much about them. Whether or not this is the first tournament that Safin has consistently acted like a petulant ass in doesn't change the fact that he's still acting like a petulant ass.

Well it does change the matter a bit, atleast some may argue your statement.
This is his first time, and "coincidently" it is no one had proof that he didn't need to get his hand tapped in THAT very moment. As said before, he might have held the racket in a different way before the BP ( to releave the pain) which might have spoiled his game. To play full force he needed to hold the racket a different way. I realy hope it was this.

alfonsojose
05-30-2004, 05:23 PM
Safin .. :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 05:24 PM
Becca, isnt saying this = to saying "cry me a river, cry me a river"?? ;)
Post that on the other forum :D;)

WyveN
05-30-2004, 05:25 PM
Well it does change the matter a bit, atleast some may argue your statement.
This is his first time, and "coincidently" it is no one had proof that he didn't need to get his hand tapped in THAT very moment. As said before, he might have held the racket in a different way before the BP ( to releave the pain) which might have spoiled his game. To play full force he needed to hold the racket a different way. I realy hope it was this.

would you be so understanding if Storace did the same to Safin and Marat would arguably lose the match because of it?

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 05:27 PM
Well it does change the matter a bit, atleast some may argue your statement.
This is his first time, and "coincidently" it is no one had proof that he didn't need to get his hand tapped in THAT very moment. As said before, he might have held the racket in a different way before the BP ( to releave the pain) which might have spoiled his game. To play full force he needed to hold the racket a different way. I realy hope it was this.
Excuses excuses. Right. And Coria desparately needs his injury timeouts whenever he calls them too. This, btw, is the second match in a row Safin did this. The rationalizations people used for him last match were pretty comical too. Keep up the good work ;)

I just don't understand.... being blinded by fandom. I REALLY LIKE Coria, but I know he's not always a good sport. I know that, but I like his game anyways. So like... why is it so hard for other people to fess up when their fave is acting like a buttfuck? :confused:

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 05:28 PM
would you be so understanding if Storace did the same to Safin and Marat would arguably lose the match because of it?
THere would be 500 threads hating on Starace. It's not okay when other players do it, just Marat. Hasn't this been established by now? ;)

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 05:29 PM
To give you an answer - of course he was right! He is always better than the judges! :)
*puke*

Vass
05-30-2004, 05:34 PM
I guess that I would have been pissed at Starace if he was the one doing it, but not for long. After one set i would have gotten over it. I wouldn't have made such a big deal out of it. Ofcourse I can't prove it. We will just have to wait and see if that ever happens to Marat.

Yes, I do criticise Marat for this action I realy do. I was the first one in the cheering chat we had who remembered what about the boos Marat was getting.

Vass
05-30-2004, 05:36 PM
THere would be 500 threads hating on Starace. It's not okay when other players do it, just Marat. Hasn't this been established by now? ;)
No way, it would have been that many. Or atleast, not more than the number of threads now that criticize Marat.

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 05:38 PM
No way, it would have been that many. Or atleast, not more than the number of threads now that criticize Marat.
There are what... three threads jumping on Marat? I for one, am only doing it to point out that hardly anybody else is - WAS. Because at first, people seemed perfectly content to ignore his obnoxious behavior. When Robredo did it, it took two hours for a 5 page thread to form.

maratski
05-30-2004, 05:48 PM
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't understand why some people can be blinded by fandom. ;)

For someone who's been a member of this board from the very beginning I'm surprised you fail to notice there are MANY new Marat fans here Rebecca. Yes Marat used to win every poll and the most silly posts have been made probably by his fans, but that was back then. Most of the posters don't even visit this board anymore. It's not fair to assume Marat's fans aren't able to admit it when he's wrong. I never see you in his forum where most of the bashing is being done. There's like 20.000 posts for you to read ;)

I for one have bitched and moaned about him on every board that I post on.

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 06:32 PM
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't understand why some people can be blinded by fandom. ;)

For someone who's been a member of this board from the very beginning I'm surprised you fail to notice there are MANY new Marat fans here Rebecca. Yes Marat used to win every poll and the most silly posts have been made probably by his fans, but that was back then. Most of the posters don't even visit this board anymore. It's not fair to assume Marat's fans aren't able to admit it when he's wrong. I never see you in his forum where most of the bashing is being done. There's like 20.000 posts for you to read ;)

I for one have bitched and moaned about him on every board that I post on.
I don't think that I said that all Marat fans are incapable of detaching themselves from his ass? I don't doubt that many are. I just don't see a lot of that in this thread. I see a lot of excuses for him, that's it. Some worse than others mind you, but the excuses are there none the less. And that? Is the only reason I've been making comments on this whole thing. I root for players that do this regularly, so I'm not going to seriously hate on a player for it. I might think it's tactless, but I accept that it's allowed, and don't fuss over it. It's just maddening that when Safin does it, it takes a full day and a whole lot of bitching from a couple of people in order to get people to comment on it. Robredo does it and it takes 5 minutes. It just goes to show who is and isn't worth discussing tennis seriously with around here, i guess. And no, that last comment was not directed at you, since I do know you outside of all this crap.

maratski
05-30-2004, 06:42 PM
If there aren't that many threads about Marat's behaviour then it's just cause nobody's been bothered by it as much as you have ;)

Most Safin fans have stopped visiting GM ages ago, that's why I'm one of the few to post here.

Chloe le Bopper
05-30-2004, 06:46 PM
If there aren't that many threads about Marat's behaviour then it's just cause nobody's been bothered by it as much as you have

Okay, I was totally right in the other thread. You REALLY haven't gotten ANY of my comments on the matter. In which point you look awfully silly criticizing me like you did in the other thread, but whatever.

Furthermore, this line is precisely the problem. It doesn't bother people when Marat does it, but it does when Coria or Robredo does. Again... some people aren't really worth discussing with, and topics like this make it clear who those people are.