Djokovic withdrew from Bangkok [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Djokovic withdrew from Bangkok

betowiec
09-25-2007, 07:37 AM
shocking...................NOT

l_mac
09-25-2007, 07:38 AM
:lol:

I'm stunned!

Action Jackson
09-25-2007, 07:42 AM
This is up there with Nadal winning a match on clay for an upset.

Bascule
09-25-2007, 01:38 PM
My dear mac, where ever is Nole's name, you're there. My dear girl, he has, for surely, melt your heart (at least he's always on your mind). You're just too stubborn to admit what's obviously. Still your tard.

alfonsojose
09-25-2007, 01:42 PM
:rolleyes:

ezekiel
09-25-2007, 01:46 PM
expected, hopefully he'll pick a wild card for next week

Farenhajt
09-25-2007, 05:50 PM
Quite expected. No one could travel half the globe, overcome the jet lag and get ready to play serious tennis in just two days. (Or at least, there's no need to do that.)

Deboogle!.
09-25-2007, 06:25 PM
He would've saved himself $40,000 if he had just withdrawn a few days earlier since it seems like he knew all along he wasn't going to play :confused:

TankingTheSet
09-25-2007, 07:24 PM
He did feign an injury: "Back" problems listed as reason for late withdrawal in the drawsheet. Not usre if this convincing enough to avoid a fine.

tangerine_dream
09-25-2007, 07:30 PM
I wonder if Bangkok is still trying to convince ticket buyers that Nadal is coming?

Lee
09-25-2007, 08:46 PM
He would've saved himself $40,000 if he had just withdrawn a few days earlier since it seems like he knew all along he wasn't going to play :confused:

We will never know what's the agreement between him and the tournament. He had said many times publicly that his next tournament is Vienna.

Farenhajt
09-25-2007, 08:47 PM
He did feign an injury: "Back" problems listed as reason for late withdrawal in the drawsheet. Not usre if this convincing enough to avoid a fine.

Actually, are there "ATP Licensed" doctors whose official diagnosis is valid enough for ATP? If there are, and I should think a serious sports organization such as ATP does have them, the issue of fine-avoiding faking doesn't exist.

decrepitude
09-25-2007, 08:52 PM
"He should learn to look after his body" :devil:

alfonsojose
09-25-2007, 08:52 PM
At least Kuzzy traveled to Beijing after Fed Cup :o

Lee
09-25-2007, 08:53 PM
Actually, are there "ATP Licensed" doctors whose official diagnosis is valid enough for ATP? If there are, and I should think a serious sports organization such as ATP does have them, the issue of fine-avoiding faking doesn't exist.

I believe the rule is the players have to be examined by the tournament doctor. That means the player still has to arrive at the tournament. Otherwise, the player will be fined.

alfonsojose
09-25-2007, 08:54 PM
I believe the rule is the players have to be examined by the tournament doctor. That means the player still has to arrive at the tournament. Otherwise, the player will be fined.

Ditto

Farenhajt
09-25-2007, 08:57 PM
But anyway, I am perplexed as to why he apparently didn't cancel earlier... Or perhaps he did, but the organizers tried to sell his name?

Injured or not, it would be logistically impossible. And when he came back from NYC, he DID say he'd spend 3 weeks in Belgrade - so Bangkok was out of picture as of back then.

Lee
09-25-2007, 09:01 PM
But anyway, I am perplexed as to why he apparently didn't cancel earlier... Or perhaps he did, but the organizers tried to sell his name?

That's my thought ;)

jonny84
09-25-2007, 09:45 PM
It's hard to expect any Davis Cup player to play in a tournament the following days afterwards. Especially if its in another continent. Was expected but a shame as he was the favourite for the title.

Roddick should win here or :help:

buddyholly
09-25-2007, 10:02 PM
I wonder if Bangkok is still trying to convince ticket buyers that Nadal is coming?

It's Bangkok. I have no doubt all the players are coming, regularly. It's an integral part of any respectable Thai massage.

Deboogle!.
09-25-2007, 10:03 PM
But anyway, I am perplexed as to why he apparently didn't cancel earlier... Or perhaps he did, but the organizers tried to sell his name?

Injured or not, it would be logistically impossible. And when he came back from NYC, he DID say he'd spend 3 weeks in Belgrade - so Bangkok was out of picture as of back then.This is what I mean. If he had withdrawn earlier, it would have shown up in the ATP player system that some people here have access to (that's how they update the entry list threads in the tourney forums) and he wouldn't have been fined for a late withdrawal. I mean it's his money, but if he knew all along he wasn't going to play, it's really crappy for a tourney to lose a top seed so late. He's not the only player to do it and I'm not trying to single him out, I just think it sucks when they know damn well they're not going to play and wait til the tourney has started to withdraw.

DrJules
09-25-2007, 10:36 PM
Event organisers are more interested in selling tickets than if a top player attends. I am sure the names Nadal and Djokovic have already sold many tickets and achieved their main objective, particularly as they withdrew so late.

It is the supporters who are the main losers not the event organisers.

DrJules
09-25-2007, 10:39 PM
But anyway, I am perplexed as to why he apparently didn't cancel earlier... Or perhaps he did, but the organizers tried to sell his name?

Injured or not, it would be logistically impossible. And when he came back from NYC, he DID say he'd spend 3 weeks in Belgrade - so Bangkok was out of picture as of back then.

In this hard commercial world it is almost certainly true.

NYCtennisfan
09-25-2007, 10:50 PM
It's hard to expect any Davis Cup player to play in a tournament the following days afterwards. Especially if its in another continent. Was expected but a shame as he was the favourite for the title.

Roddick should win here or :help:

True athough Roddick did it in 2004 and got the finals in Bangkok.

DhammaTiger
09-25-2007, 10:57 PM
I wonder if Bangkok is still trying to convince ticket buyers that Nadal is coming?

It was in the Bangkok papers since the weekend that Rafa wasn't coming.

Deboogle!.
09-25-2007, 11:07 PM
True athough Roddick did it in 2004 and got the finals in Bangkok.Yes, and was sleeping in the locker room before his first round match, needed smelling salts during that match, and got hurt. It's not worth it. I just don't know why the guys enter if they don't intend to play (and in Andy's case, I don't know why he entered at all ;)). If they entered, intended to play, and got hurt, that's one thing, but yeah.

and again it is not that the tournament is holding out til the last second because as soon as the players withdraw, these guys' withdrawals didn't show up in the updated entry lists til they withdrew today and a couple days ago. Unless it is in their contracts with the tourney that they won't withdraw until the weekend before, in which case that is beyond disgusting. And even if that's the case, it came back to bite Novak since he got a very hefty fine for it :shrug:

Merton
09-26-2007, 12:06 AM
Expected withdrawal, most probably the organizers knew in advance and just avoided announcing at the same time as the Nadal withdrawal.

As for Andy, it is stupid that he plays there but it is amazing what people can do for the love of the game. :) And no, this is not aimed at Andy, at least this way the Thai organizers implicitly finance his charity.

MCL
09-26-2007, 03:20 AM
We will never know what's the agreement between him and the tournament. He had said many times publicly that his next tournament is Vienna.

:scratch:
Maybe the tourny covered his pull-out fee in exchange for being able to advertise his participation (even though they knew he wouldn't be there). Nole loses no money and they gain more money than they should have given the actual participants.

Of course, nothing like that would ever go on in the tennis world. :p

groundstroke
09-26-2007, 06:36 AM
OMG WHAT A SURPRISE. not.

Farenhajt
09-26-2007, 02:25 PM
Novak's father for today's papers. The source is here (http://www.blic.co.yu/sport.php?id=14206), and the relevant excerpt is repeated and translated below.

- Ma kakva povreda, Nole je sasvim u redu, na sreću svih nas i navijača. Zdrav je kao dren i sprema se za druge izazove. Jednostavno, nije mogao da stigne da otputuje u Aziju jer ima druge planove, a njegov povratak na teren biće u Beču za dve nedelje - izjavio je za „Blic“ Novakov otac Srđan.

- Oh, please, what injury? Nole's perfectly alright, luckily for all of us and the fans. He's fit as a fiddle and is preparing for other challenges. He simply couldn't make to travel to Asia because he has other plans, and he'll return to the court in Vienna in two weeks - said for "Blic" Novak's father Srdjan.

So, it's now clear that Thais just flied the back injury story, though it seems the fine will stand.

Deboogle!.
09-26-2007, 02:27 PM
So, it's now clear that Thais just flied the back injury story.It's not the Thais' fault, that's the reason he gave. Maybe it was a false one, but that's why he was fined for it. He could've just cited fatigue, like PimPim did today :shrug: but don't blame the Thais :lol:

l_mac
09-26-2007, 02:50 PM
Novak's father for today's papers. The source is here (http://www.blic.co.yu/sport.php?id=14206), and the relevant excerpt is repeated and translated below.

- Ma kakva povreda, Nole je sasvim u redu, na sreću svih nas i navijača. Zdrav je kao dren i sprema se za druge izazove. Jednostavno, nije mogao da stigne da otputuje u Aziju jer ima druge planove, a njegov povratak na teren biće u Beču za dve nedelje - izjavio je za „Blic“ Novakov otac Srđan.

- Oh, please, what injury? Nole's perfectly alright, luckily for all of us and the fans. He's fit as a fiddle and is preparing for other challenges. He simply couldn't make to travel to Asia because he has other plans, and he'll return to the court in Vienna in two weeks - said for "Blic" Novak's father Srdjan.

So, it's now clear that Thais just flied the back injury story, though it seems the fine will stand.

Farenhajt, you haven't got the hang of this Djokotard business! This is like something I'd be desperate to post - it makes Nole and his management team look like total asses and liars. He couldn't travel to Asia because he had "other plans?" Why did he enter the tournament then?

Sunset of Age
09-26-2007, 03:02 PM
Event organisers are more interested in selling tickets than if a top player attends. I am sure the names Nadal and Djokovic have already sold many tickets and achieved their main objective, particularly as they withdrew so late.

It is the supporters who are the main losers not the event organisers.

Indeed, and it perfectly fits Mr. Disney's earlier plan to keep entry list a complete secret - the only thing these buggers are interested in is $$$$$$, nothing else. Even if it means f**cking the tennis fans all around the world.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Farenhajt
09-26-2007, 03:52 PM
Farenhajt, you haven't got the hang of this Djokotard business! This is like something I'd be desperate to post - it makes Nole and his management team look like total asses and liars. He couldn't travel to Asia because he had "other plans?" Why did he enter the tournament then?

No, it just makes YOU so eager to pin EVERYTHING you possibly can on Novak/Srdjan/Vajda/whoever of Novak's circle. But of course, that's your mission here, and I'm really getting worried for your mental health (no matter you're sturdy rocky Scottish female) since that Djoko hatred is really getting the best of you. And that ain't healthy, my dear. Take a break, go some fishing. Or making Andy Murray from mud, whatever.

(I mean, if you THINK that one thing [an injury] would be reported by Novak's team to ATP, and another [schedule] would be given in public media, then you really think Novak and everyone around him is an utter moron - and I just don't want to think YOU are a moron of such proportions. You did have some good moments, so call me sentimental. Though life's full of disappointments...)

Did ATP said Novak is injured? No. Where the information appeared? In Thai media. Did Novak's headquarters said anything on the subject till today? No.

Conclusion: The injury is a flier, and the fine will probably stand NOT for lying BUT for delayed cancellation. Given his earnings this year, it's not too much. And he certainly isn't the first and last player to be fined on such grounds.

Deboogle!.
09-26-2007, 04:03 PM
No, it just makes YOU so eager to pin EVERYTHING you possibly can to Novak/Srdjan/Vajda/whoever of Novak's circle. But of course, that's your mission here, and I'm really getting worried for your mental health (no matter you're sturdy rocky Scottish female) since that Djoko hatred is really getting the best of you. And that ain't healthy, my dear. Take a break, go some fishing. Or making Andy Murray from mud, whatever.

(I mean, if you THINK that one thing [an injury] would be reported by Novak's team to ATP, and another [schedule] would be given in public media, then you really think Novak and everyone around him is an utter moron - and I just don't want to think YOU are a moron of such proportions. You did have some good moments, so call me sentimental. Though life's full of disappointments...)

Did ATP said Novak is injured? No. Where the information appeared? In Thai media. Did Novak's headquarters said anything on the subject till today? No.

Conclusion: The injury is a flier, and the fine will probably stand NOT for lying BUT for delayed cancellation. Given his earnings this year, it's not too much. And he certainly isn't the first and last player to be fined on such grounds.OK, I don't dislike Novak, so you can't accuse me of what you are accusing l_mac of. But seriously, you are just plain incorrect. The simple point is that when a player withdraws from a tournament, he or she must give an "official reason." NOVAK'S official reason was a back injury. If the injury is not true, that's not the Thai media's fault. They are just reporting on the OFFICIAL injury given by the player. It's right on the draw sheet for all to see, so yes, the ATP IS saying Novak is injured, since the draw sheet is from the ATP. If you want to defend what Novak did, that's your perogative, but to place the blame elsewhere is unfair to the Thai media who is just reporting on the official reason he himself gave.

He's certainly not the first player to invent a nonexistent injury to give as a reason for withdrawing from a tournament, nor will he be the last. At the end of the day, it doesn't change the simple fact that we all know he had no intention of playing yet he waited until the draw was made to pull out. Whether he fabricated a back injury or just said "fatigue" I think is quite irrelevant, so I don't know why you're so hung up on the reason he gave as opposed to the actions he took unless you just can't accept that he would make it up and lie about it so you have to shift the blame to the Thai media. It bothers me when all players do this. It bothers me when players enter these tourneys they have no intention to play. It doesn't matter who the player is - whether he's my favorite or least favorite (and yes, I totally called Andy on entering Tokyo when he had no intention to play - but at least he had the decency to pull out like 2 weeks before the tournament). It's crappy to the tournament and to its fans. and it takes the spot away from a lower-ranked player who might've gotten into an ATP tourney but decides to play a challenger instead or something.

You don't have to be upset by his actions, that doesn't matter to me, but you need to at least consider the actual facts of what happened and not paint Novak as the total innocent here.

Farenhajt
09-26-2007, 04:22 PM
I'm not trying to paint Novak as an innocent. If what you say stands (and it seems it does), then what now confuses me is why the back injury story wasn't flied further - it would do absolutely no harm to say "yes, he strained some back muscles, bad enough not to be able to play Bangkok, but he'll be as good as new for Vienna". Besides that, I'm still confused about the fact he wrote off Bangkok 2 weeks ago, so he had ample time to withdraw "lightly".

I mean, you wouldn't expect such a lame scheme from a "master of gamesmanship and faking", wouldn't you? :) Call me delusional or whatever you like, but I wouldn't be surprised if Thai officials made a deal with him - they'll sell his name and pay the fine in return.

Deboogle!.
09-26-2007, 04:31 PM
honestly I expect it from all these players. They ALL do it. Doesn't make it right, doesn't bother me any less, but it's the truth. The reason why you hear nothing more about it is because that's just not what they do. ToJo pulled out of the same tourney TODAY with the same "back injury" that appeared out of nowhere - the reason he didn't play in Davis Cup on Sunday was because of a fever. You don't hear anything more about it. PimPim pulled out simply with "fatigue" after playing one match in 8 months :lol: I mean it's just the way it is lol - the official reason in and of itself is pretty much irrelevant.

I'm confused why he didn't withdraw earlier too. Perhaps those who argue that these guys have deals with the tournaments to not withdraw until the last minute are true. We have no way of knowing that. I don't think Novak was pulling a scheme or anything, I'm not one who believe he's a "gamesmanship master of fake injuries" anyway, I just think he did what most of the other guys on the tour do too. But that's why he was fined for it.

Lee
09-26-2007, 04:37 PM
What I don't understand is why local media didn't put more pressure on the organiser. Unless the media doesn't care at all about the tournament. MTF community knows about Novak has no intention to play in Bangkok and he even put it up on his official web site that his next tournament will be Vienna.

Why nobody ask the simple question "Why is Djokovic's name still on the entry list in Bangkok when he said he's not coming"?

Deboogle!.
09-26-2007, 04:46 PM
I'm not sure (someone who knows would have to post) but I don't think the tourneys control the entry lists. The people we have here who update the lists somehow have access to the ATP player system. I'm not sure, but I would think that would be updated as soon as the player withdraws - after all, that is not supposed to be public knowledge so theoretically a player should be able to officially withdraw but the tourney could still go on advertising it. That's why it becomes appealing to believe those who are convinced that these player contracts - at least for the top stars - include clauses that they will still get some money if they pull out, if they wait until late to do it. Because by then the tourney has sold many of its tickets and made the money and they get to keep most of those fat appearance fee checks. It's definitely a confusing system all around and at least for me, it seems difficult to see where the problems and potential corruption even really lie, or maybe the players, tourneys, and ATP are all working together on it to keep up this whole farce. Who knows. It's unfortunate that the paying fans are the ones who lose :(

Again please someone if i am wrong about any or all of this please correct me.

Lee
09-26-2007, 04:54 PM
Sooner or later, the fans will learn their lessons and organisers will lose their credibility and be the ultimate losers. It's sad though.

Farenhajt
09-26-2007, 05:17 PM
Maybe even ATP has a slice of the cake, knowing how eager they are to promote tennis in Asia and get very friendly with Asian money.

Sunset of Age
09-26-2007, 05:22 PM
Sooner or later, the fans will learn their lessons and organisers will lose their credibility and be the ultimate losers. It's sad though.

Exactly. I mean you can fool people once, perhaps twice - but as soon as this becomes 'common knowledge' among the fans, they will wait with buying tickets till the last moment, too.
I well remember Rotterdam with 13 last minute no-shows - from what I've heard a lot of fans won't buy their tickets early in advance anymore. Once is enough.

l_mac
09-26-2007, 06:28 PM
No, it just makes YOU so eager to pin EVERYTHING you possibly can on Novak/Srdjan/Vajda/whoever of Novak's circle. But of course, that's your mission here, and I'm really getting worried for your mental health (no matter you're sturdy rocky Scottish female) since that Djoko hatred is really getting the best of you. And that ain't healthy, my dear. Take a break, go some fishing. Or making Andy Murray from mud, whatever.

(I mean, if you THINK that one thing [an injury] would be reported by Novak's team to ATP, and another [schedule] would be given in public media, then you really think Novak and everyone around him is an utter moron - and I just don't want to think YOU are a moron of such proportions. You did have some good moments, so call me sentimental. Though life's full of disappointments...)

Did ATP said Novak is injured? No. Where the information appeared? In Thai media. Did Novak's headquarters said anything on the subject till today? No.

Conclusion: The injury is a flier, and the fine will probably stand NOT for lying BUT for delayed cancellation. Given his earnings this year, it's not too much. And he certainly isn't the first and last player to be fined on such grounds.


:haha:

Harsh, and totally unjustified! I didn't even say anything wrong, or especially mean :sad:

As for the bolded part ... it does appear from all the facts that this is the case. :p

l_mac
09-26-2007, 06:32 PM
I'm not trying to paint Novak as an innocent. If what you say stands (and it seems it does), then what now confuses me is why the back injury story wasn't flied further - it would do absolutely no harm to say "yes, he strained some back muscles, bad enough not to be able to play Bangkok, but he'll be as good as new for Vienna". Besides that, I'm still confused about the fact he wrote off Bangkok 2 weeks ago, so he had ample time to withdraw "lightly".

I'm also genuinely confused about that.

I mean, you wouldn't expect such a lame scheme from a "master of gamesmanship and faking", wouldn't you? :) Call me delusional or whatever you like, but I wouldn't be surprised if Thai officials made a deal with him - they'll sell his name and pay the fine in return.

I don't think that's delusional - I think that's likely what happened - but it doesn't explain why he couldn't keep quiet about Vienna really being his next tournament or his father coming out and saying there is no injury. :retard:

R.Federer
09-26-2007, 06:36 PM
I don't think that's delusional - I think that's likely what happened - but it doesn't explain why he couldn't keep quiet about Vienna really being his next tournament or his father coming out and saying there is no injury. :retard:

His father came out to say there is no injury?! :haha: Daddy Djoke is better than I could have imagined :lol: :hatoff:

Sunset of Age
09-26-2007, 07:16 PM
I don't think that's delusional - I think that's likely what happened - but it doesn't explain why he couldn't keep quiet about Vienna really being his next tournament or his father coming out and saying there is no injury. :retard:

Looks like Djoko's family could well do with a Quick Course "How to deal with the media when your kid's becoming a Famous Person..." :lol:

decrepitude
09-26-2007, 09:22 PM
Looks like Djoko's family could well do with a Quick Course "How to deal with the media when your kid's becoming a Famous Person..." :lol:

Lesson one: keep your mouth firmly SHUT!

Sunset of Age
09-27-2007, 12:23 AM
Lesson one: keep your mouth firmly SHUT!

EXACTLY what I was thinking of - :yeah: :angel: