Berdych/Stepanek def Allegro/Federer 3-6 5-7 7-6(7) 6-4 6-4 after saving a matchpoint [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Berdych/Stepanek def Allegro/Federer 3-6 5-7 7-6(7) 6-4 6-4 after saving a matchpoint

Tom Paulman
09-22-2007, 03:32 PM
It might not have been the most clever decision to put Berdych and Stepanek together since they've never played doubles together and on the other hand, Damm/Stepanek used to be a solid doubles pair back in the days. They had to save a match point at **5-6 in the tie-break and stepped their game up after winning the 3rd set. Congrats guys :yeah: That was a big drama, especially at the end of the final set when Berdych made 2 consecutive errors serving for match.

EDIT: OK, so Tomas & Radek actually played 3 tournies together before, last time in 2006

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 03:33 PM
Great fightback from the Berdman and Stepanek.

Glad to be proven wrong on this one as I thought Jaro Navratil had too many Czech beers picking this combo.

Makes the last day very interesting indeed.

Ten_Isse_Fan
09-22-2007, 03:33 PM
Wow ;) We haven't seen Fed choke like that since DC 2003 :p

shotgun
09-22-2007, 03:35 PM
:woohoo:

Navratil's risky decision paid off in the end. :D

It's all on Stepanek's hands tomorrow to seal the deal. :scared:

Voo de Mar
09-22-2007, 03:35 PM
Berdych - the master of five-setters, 9-0 in singles, 1-0 in doubles :worship:

Eden
09-22-2007, 03:35 PM
Roger and Yves :smash: What a disappointment :o
Congrats to Tomas and Radek for coming through.

Good luck to Stan for his match against Sexy Lips tomorrow :yeah: It's good that Stan had a day off today whilst Radek had to play.

krakenzero
09-22-2007, 03:36 PM
Federer is in trouble... even if he wins tomorrow against Berdych, Stepanek could perfectly beat Stan the Man.

Julio1974
09-22-2007, 03:36 PM
Bravo !!!!!!!!!!

Now please Stepanek beat Wawrinka and take Switzerland and Roger out of the World Group.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 03:36 PM
So happy to be proven wrong and I thought Jaro was drunk when he made this as his doubles combo.

Just shows how the fine the line is between genius and lunatic.

neenah
09-22-2007, 03:37 PM
Disappointing, but I'm a fan of the Czech team as well as the Swiss team, so I suppose the extra suspense in the last two matches will be exciting.

scarecrows
09-22-2007, 03:37 PM
So happy to be proven wrong and I thought Jaro was drunk when he made this as his doubles combo.

Just shows how the fine the line is between genius and lunatic.

you even called Navratil a doper :lol:

GonzoFed
09-22-2007, 03:38 PM
Time for Stan the man to step up and being the swiss hero on Sunday.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 03:38 PM
you even called Navratil a doper :lol:

No, I did not. I said he was on something, this does not mean it was dope. More like magic mushrooms, but the magic worked.

Byrd
09-22-2007, 03:40 PM
Well done Berdman/Sexy, nice comeback. Fed and Allegro a bit unlucky, but you need to take it on those clutch moments, otherwise it will comeback and bite you in the ass. Looking forward to tomorrow.

Johnny Groove
09-22-2007, 03:41 PM
hope Federer likes the europe/africa zone

scoobs
09-22-2007, 03:44 PM
Switzerland are going down, it seems.

Federer's decision to opt out in the February ties will now come back to bite him in the ass, unless Stan can really become the man tomorrow.

nobama
09-22-2007, 03:47 PM
Apparently it was Allegro who was broken in the 4th and 5th sets. I wonder if James Martin over at tennis.com still think's Switzerland is a favorite to contend for DC (if Roger would play all ties). :rolleyes:

GonzoFed
09-22-2007, 03:47 PM
Assuming that Federer defeats Berdych (very likely), both Stan and Sexy have struggled under this kind of pressure. Sexy has failed before against the famous ass and fixing man, and Stan hasn't prove himself reliable under clutch situations yet. One of thenm will get the monkey of his back though.

Horatio Caine
09-22-2007, 03:47 PM
Huuuuuuuuuge win for the Czechs there! :eek: :eek:

Not guaranteed that they will finish off the Swiss, but they have a good chance...Sexy is a bad match for Stan on this fast surface. Question is whether he will have the energy to pull off the win.

Will Roger go ahead and play the 4th rubber? May seem like a daft question, but he has played a lot of tennis in the space of 24 hours, and his commitment to Davis Cup is a little questionable. :shrug:

Veronique
09-22-2007, 03:48 PM
Wow ;) We haven't seen Fed choke like that since DC 2003 :p

Did you watch the match or are you basing your comment on the results only?

Horatio Caine
09-22-2007, 03:50 PM
Berdych - the master of five-setters, 9-0 in singles, 1-0 in doubles :worship:

:eek: Wow! :worship:

As with many others here, I was also rather shocked at the decision to play these two in the doubles, when they had picked 2 top 20 doubles specialists to join the team (although neither had played together before). Glad to be proved wrong.

Naide
09-22-2007, 03:50 PM
Congrats Tomas, and oh Radek you sexy beast.

Rogiman
09-22-2007, 03:50 PM
Mega choke.

nobama
09-22-2007, 03:51 PM
Huuuuuuuuuge win for the Czechs there! :eek: :eek:

Not guaranteed that they will finish off the Swiss, but they have a good chance...Sexy is a bad match for Stan on this fast surface. Question is whether he will have the energy to pull off the win.

Will Roger go ahead and play the 4th rubber? May seem like a daft question, but he has played a lot of tennis in the space of 24 hours, and his commitment to Davis Cup is a little questionable. :shrug:He's already made it pretty clear that DC will not be a priority next year. But he still thinks Switzerland deserves to be in the World Group (not sure I agree) so I'm sure he'll play tomorrow.

nobama
09-22-2007, 03:51 PM
Mega choke.Thank Yves for that. :o

Jade Fox
09-22-2007, 03:52 PM
Oh dear.:o There's a moral to this story somewhere, but I'm not sure what it is.

jonny84
09-22-2007, 03:53 PM
I think Switzerland needed this rubber. It all hinges on whether Stepanek can beat Stan. Tomas has beaten Roger before so it could be :help: for Switzerland

Eden
09-22-2007, 03:53 PM
Federer's decision to opt out in the February ties will now come back to bite him in the ass, unless Stan can really become the man tomorrow.

It's not sure that Switzerland would have won against Spain with Roger ;) It's just speculation to say what would have happen.

The Swiss will surely be angry about the wasted chances today, but the tie isn't over yet. Tomorrow Stan can show that he is up there to be the second single player you mostly need for a DC encounter.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 03:54 PM
Oh dear.:o There's a moral to this story somewhere, but I'm not sure what it is.

You can work it out.

Sjengster
09-22-2007, 03:55 PM
Apparently it was Allegro who was broken in the 4th and 5th sets. I wonder if James Martin over at tennis.com still think's Switzerland is a favorite to contend for DC (if Roger would play all ties). :rolleyes:

Of course they are, with a full strength side. Federer has been the weak link in the doubles team in past matches too, when they lost to France in the quarters three years ago his serve was broken three out of four times the Swiss lost serve, and I doubt that Allegro managed to lose two service games today all by himself.

If they do go down tomorrow it won't even make that much difference to Federer, they probably won't need him for the Euro/Africa Zone tie next year unless it's a really tough away tie, then he comes back in September as per usual. That doesn't mean I'm happy about it, or that someone should get away with saying "Hey, I play Davis Cup every year!" when effectively they're playing Davis Cup qualifying and that's all. Right now the rest of the Swiss team is bouncing back and forth between two walls, with Federer acting as one of the latter.

Bilbo
09-22-2007, 03:55 PM
as long as federer beats berdych i'm fine

Byrd
09-22-2007, 03:56 PM
Thank Yves for that. :o

Are you having a joke?, stop blaming Yves for droping his serve its not all his fault. Go blame Roger for being a lazy bum in dubai, whilst his davis cup mates are trying to do some good earlier in the year, fangirl.

Sjengster
09-22-2007, 03:57 PM
Thank Yves for that. :o

When Spain almost lost in the play-offs to Italy back in 2005 Nadal and Lopez lost the doubles in five from two sets to one up, and everyone was castigating Lopez for losing it. I'm guessing you would have been the first to point out that it takes two to lose a doubles match and that Nadal shouldn't be absolved of responsibility just because he's the star player? Same story here.

TMJordan
09-22-2007, 04:01 PM
Simply amazing :worship:

Radek is the man.

Eden
09-22-2007, 04:02 PM
Thank Yves for that. :o

I think it's not fair to put the blame on somebody. Yves knows his role at the side of Roger best. He once said it in an interview that whenever they win a doubles it's because of Roger and when they lose it is his fault.
He tries his best and gives it all, but you win or lose a doubles as a team.

nobama
09-22-2007, 04:07 PM
Are you having a joke?, stop blaming Yves for droping his serve its not all his fault. Go blame Roger for being a lazy bum in dubai, whilst his davis cup mates are trying to do some good earlier in the year, fangirl.
No I'm going to blame the rest of the team for not stepping it up and not being the weak link. Stan will have his chance to do that tomorrow.

Btw, I've argued that Switzerland shouldn't even be in the World Group since Fed always decided to opt out R1. Last year I questioned his decision to play just to keep Switzerland in the World Group knowing that come the following February he wouldn't be playing. Of course it's not fair to the rest of the team, but Fed carrying the team isn't right either.

nobama
09-22-2007, 04:12 PM
I think it's not fair to put the blame on somebody. Yves knows his role at the side of Roger best. He once said it in an interview that whenever they win a doubles it's because of Roger and when they lose it is his fault.
He tries his best and gives it all, but you win or lose a doubles as a team.I know it's not just his fault, it's a team effort. And he's just not solid enough. Maybe they should've played Stan instead.

tangerine_dream
09-22-2007, 04:13 PM
Tomas and Radek hadn't played doubles together before and they beat Roger and Yves saving a MP? Wow. :eek:

jayjay
09-22-2007, 04:16 PM
but Fed carrying the team isn't right either.

You'll find that most Davis Cup nations are carried by one player. Even nations that have greater depth still rely in the main on a certain player.

Hopefully the Czechs can finish it off tomorrow.

Sjengster
09-22-2007, 04:16 PM
No I'm going to blame the rest of the team for not stepping it up and not being the weak link. Stan will have his chance to do that tomorrow.

I find that argument nonsense. The team have stepped up, last year Wawrinka won both his singles rubbers against Australia and all it would have taken was one two-hour contribution from Federer to get them into a tie against Belarus to make the semis. Heck, the year before they narrowly lost to the Netherlands with Schalken defeating both Chiudinelli and Wawrinka by the skin of his teeth in five-setters. Why should the Swiss be the only ones to have to do without their top-ranked player when his presence would turn a lot of close defeats into a stroll, which wouldn't take that much out of Federer? How many other nations are expected to perform without their no. 1 man, how many could do so successfully?

Switzerland's best result with Federer in the team only came because one of his colleagues "stepped up", lest we forget - they would have lost in the first round in 2003 had Kratochvil not won the deciding rubber against Verkerk.

Whistleway
09-22-2007, 04:18 PM
No I'm going to blame the rest of the team for not stepping it up and not being the weak link. Stan will have his chance to do that tomorrow.

Btw, I've argued that Switzerland shouldn't even be in the World Group since Fed always decided to opt out R1. Last year I questioned his decision to play just to keep Switzerland in the World Group knowing that come the following February he wouldn't be playing. Of course it's not fair to the rest of the team, but Fed carrying the team isn't right either.

Ha ha.. That is one sick demented fan's argument. Hush it, you are bring Federer fans a bad name :(

GlennMirnyi
09-22-2007, 04:18 PM
Sexy rules!

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 04:19 PM
I find that argument nonsense. The team have stepped up, last year Wawrinka won both his singles rubbers against Australia and all it would have taken was one two-hour contribution from Federer to get them into a tie against Belarus to make the semis. Heck, the year before they narrowly lost to the Netherlands with Schalken defeating both Chiudinelli and Wawrinka by the skin of his teeth in five-setters. Why should the Swiss be the only ones to have to do without their top-ranked player when his presence would turn a lot of close defeats into a stroll, which wouldn't take that much out of Federer? How many other nations are expected to perform without their no. 1 man, how many could do successfully?

Switzerland's best result with Federer in the team only came because one of his colleagues "stepped up", lest we forget - they would have lost in the first round in 2003 had Kratochvil not won the deciding rubber against Verkerk.

Exactly, but no surprise too many people have selective memory.

Federer could have easily played and kept WG status and then fucked off after the 1st round if he chose.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 04:19 PM
Ha ha.. That is one sick demented fan's argument. Hush it, you are bring Federer fans a bad name :(

She doesn't help their case.

Byrd
09-22-2007, 04:21 PM
No I'm going to blame the rest of the team for not stepping it up and not being the weak link. Stan will have his chance to do that tomorrow.

Btw, I've argued that Switzerland shouldn't even be in the World Group since Fed always decided to opt out R1. Last year I questioned his decision to play just to keep Switzerland in the World Group knowing that come the following February he wouldn't be playing. Of course it's not fair to the rest of the team, but Fed carrying the team isn't right either.

You want the rest of the team to step up, yet you think its unfair on them that fed isn't there the majority of the time?......seriously you need to choose one or the other seeing that this is a contradiciton in itself.

And speaking of them steping up, wawrinka is probably the most experience on the team at 22 which highlights how poor the rest of the team is, so you expect a player who is barely top 50 to take on all that pressure and carry his country through against the likes of spain, serbia, australia you actually have their best players playing?

Tom Paulman
09-22-2007, 04:22 PM
Tomas and Radek hadn't played doubles together before and they beat Roger and Yves saving a MP? Wow. :eek:

I'm not 100% sure, they said in post-match interview that it's been a long time since they played together, so maybe they did (I don't know any resource about doubles, so I can't find out)

Eden
09-22-2007, 04:23 PM
I know it's not just his fault, it's a team effort. And he's just not solid enough. Maybe they should've played Stan instead.

And if Stan couldn't have the job get done we would say what would have happen when Yves would have played ;) The same goes to the speculation that Switzerland would have won with Roger against Spain.
Roger and Yves were the ones who were chosen by the DC captain for this double and if they had used their chances nobody would talk about another man at Rogers side.

Byrd
09-22-2007, 04:24 PM
Yayo keep track of this situation, you might need to change your seedings in regard to the arse clown contest.

adee-gee
09-22-2007, 04:25 PM
:rolls:

Did the pressure of "carrying his nation" get to the GOAT? :awww: :baby:

Good job Berdych and Sexy, now get the job done tomorrow. Preferably with Berdych beating Federer.

scarecrows
09-22-2007, 04:26 PM
Yayo keep track of this situation, you might need to change your seedings in regard to the arse clown contest.

Yayo waited DC matches on purpose to gather new material

he was right

Sjengster
09-22-2007, 04:27 PM
The irony is that the tie this year with Spain was thought doubtful even if Federer did play, but then Nadal pulled out with an actual injury, not because he was just skipping it. And then of course Wawrinka injured himself on the surface, which I read was very dangerous and had players complaining about it, but Chiudinelli managed to beat Verdasco in four sets on the first day! If he can "step it up", how hard is it for Federer to win the other two rubbers against Ferrer and Verdasco?

Eden
09-22-2007, 04:28 PM
Good job Berdych and Sexy, now get the job done tomorrow. Preferably with Berdych beating Federer.

You are rooting for the bad man? :eek: ;)

I thought you like the real Swiss No. 1 - so you should keep fingers crossed for Stan against Radek :p

GlennMirnyi
09-22-2007, 04:28 PM
Too many oportunists here. :lol:

Byrd
09-22-2007, 04:28 PM
Yayo waited DC matches on purpose to gather new material

he was right

Indoobidibly :p

Btw whats with the chimpanzee fetish, its funny everytime I see it, but slightly creepy at the same time :haha:

scarecrows
09-22-2007, 04:32 PM
Indoobidly :p

Btw whats with the chimpanzee fetish, its funny everytime I see it, but slightly creepy at the same time :haha:

chimps rule :shrug:

GonzoFed
09-22-2007, 04:32 PM
It is not easy for me to say it as a Fed fan, but as much as i think all the praise he receives is fully deserved and that sometimes his fanbase is ridiculously demanding and overly critical about him, the criticism and the bashing is fully deserved this time, not because the outcome of this match, but for the stance Federer has chosen regarding DC the last three years. It would have been better if he had say "fuck off, screw DC, i will concentrate in my personal career only for know on" and not play at all, but this half arsed compromise with the team put them in an uncomfortable position that shouldn't had happened.

Blue Heart24
09-22-2007, 04:33 PM
Nice choke Allegro & Fed :sad: :smash:

Radek & Bird :woohoo: :yeah:

GonzoFed
09-22-2007, 04:35 PM
:rolls:

Did the pressure of "carrying his nation" get to the GOAT? :awww: :baby:

Good job Berdych and Sexy, now get the job done tomorrow. Preferably with Berdych beating Federer.

Ok seriouly asking, Do you really think Berdych has a chance tomorrow?

GlennMirnyi
09-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Sexy will bring the hip gyrations to the court tomorrow and close the deal. :D

LeChuck
09-22-2007, 04:36 PM
There is plenty of time in-between the 1st round Davis Cup ties and Dubai. If Federer is so desperate to keep Switzerland in the World Group, the best method to do that would be for him to help Switzerland win their 1st round ties, so that they get to avoid these play-offs in September. In the last few years, Switzerland would have beaten the Netherlands at home in 2005, Australia at home in 2006, and Spain at home this year (no active Spanish players are capable of beating him on fast and low bouncing carpet), if Federer had been playing. Then he could have forgotten about the Davis Cup for another year after February.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 04:36 PM
Ok seriouly asking, Do you really think Berdych has a chance tomorrow?

Yes.

Sjengster
09-22-2007, 04:40 PM
It is not easy for me to say it as a Fed fan, but as much as i think all the praise he receives is fully deserved and that sometimes his fanbase is ridiculously demanding and overly critical about him, the criticism and the bashing is fully deserved this time, not because the outcome of this match, but for the stance Federer has chosen regarding DC the last three years. It would have been better if he had say "fuck off, screw DC, i will concentrate in my personal career only for know on" and not play at all, but this half arsed compromise with the team put them in an uncomfortable position that shouldn't had happened.

What's more, with a player of his stature they know they have to dance to his every whim too. The only bright spot for me is that he has said it could be a goal for him in the future, a fairly equivocal commitment but it's still there. And yet why, why miss out on DC in the years where you're at your absolute prime as a dominant world no. 1 and a lock to win virtually every singles match, thus giving your team the best possible chance of victory? If he does play it regularly in future he won't be the same player, he'll be vulnerable to defeat against more opponents in more situations. As it stands, playing this year or last year they had a team that could potentially have reached the final IMO. Probably not won it as there are too many tough away sides that will always have greater depth, but he could at least have given it his best shot, the kind of thing that a world no. 1 should do.

nobama
09-22-2007, 04:41 PM
It is not easy for me to say it as a Fed fan, but as much as i think all the praise he receives is fully deserved and that sometimes his fanbase is ridiculously demanding and overly critical about him, the criticism and the bashing is fully deserved this time, not because the outcome of this match, but for the stance Federer has chosen regarding DC the last three years. It would have been better if he had say "fuck off, screw DC, i will concentrate in my personal career only for know on" and not play at all, but this half arsed compromise with the team put them in an uncomfortable position that shouldn't had happened.Well if he didn't play at all SUI would never be in the world group. And maybe that's how it should be because of his half commitment. It's highly unlikely the team will ever win a tie in the world group with out him.

scoobs
09-22-2007, 04:42 PM
It might just have been better if he'd done what Sampras did and state at the start of the year whether or not he was going to play any Davis Cup in that year, instead of all this half-in half-out shilly shallying.

cc2monac
09-22-2007, 04:43 PM
congrats men!!! hope that radek will win his match tomorrow now!

Sjengster
09-22-2007, 04:43 PM
Yes.

It's Berdych's best surface I should think, at least the best surface for him to play Federer with his game, and they've never played on it before - Federer only has wins over Berdych on natural surfaces, where his spins and slices have more of an impact. Combine that with the fact that Berdych will be able to play with a lot more freedom knowing that Stepanek still has a chance to close it out, and that the tie won't be over if he loses a match he was favoured to lose anyway, and Federer has quite a challenge facing him. If the Swiss had won the fifth set knowing both their opponents had to play and win the next day it would have been an ideal situation.

GonzoFed
09-22-2007, 04:43 PM
Yes.

Slim, great chance?:p

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 04:44 PM
Slim, great chance?:p

Well with Berdych anything can happen. He has played well these 2 days, so this will mean tomorrow he will play crap.

Seriously this is his best surface for him.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 04:46 PM
It's Berdych's best surface I should think, at least the best surface for him to play Federer with his game, and they've never played on it before - Federer only has wins over Berdych on natural surfaces, where his spins and slices have more of an impact. Combine that with the fact that Berdych will be able to play with a lot more freedom knowing that Stepanek still has a chance to close it out, and that the tie won't be over if he loses a match he was favoured to lose anyway, and Federer has quite a challenge facing him. If the Swiss had won the fifth set knowing both their opponents had to play and win the next day it would have been an ideal situation.

Berdman will be relaxed for sure, or he should be with a 2-1 lead. He likes a roof and this is his best surface, but of course he is not the favourite, as he said in the interview before the tie. "He is human" and has to play the ball and not the reputation.

JMG
09-22-2007, 04:47 PM
Well if he didn't play at all SUI would never be in the world group.

:retard:

Jade Fox
09-22-2007, 04:48 PM
It might just have been better if he'd done what Sampras did and state at the start of the year whether or not he was going to play any Davis Cup in that year, instead of all this half-in half-out shilly shallying.

I would've rather him just say "Fuck DC, I'm focusing on my own game this year." At least then this loss wouldn't feel like him getting bit in the ass for his half assed DC participation for the past three years.

R.Federer
09-22-2007, 04:49 PM
SHIIIIIITE!!!!! I left it at set point for the Czechs in the third, and now THIS? No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Byrd
09-22-2007, 04:50 PM
Berdych will lose, players usually play with freedom seeing that they at least have another match on the cards to win the thing, but with berdych it usually works the other way round, freezing up like a cow on ice, baby-safin.

Johnny Groove
09-22-2007, 04:51 PM
Berdych will lose, players usually play with freedom seeing that they at least have another match on the cards to win the thing, but with berdych it usually works the other way round, freezing up like a cow on ice, baby-safin.

I didnt know Mirka was an ice skater :eek:

Byrd
09-22-2007, 04:53 PM
I didnt know Mirka was an ice skater :eek:

The compulsary mirka joke of the day blaze, i'm sure you can do better :o

Bloodletting
09-22-2007, 04:54 PM
would be funny to watch Federer against those Macedonian guys.

Johnny Groove
09-22-2007, 04:56 PM
The compulsary mirka joke of the day blaze, i'm sure you can do better :o

I havent done a Mirka joke in a while, you should be thankful I even took time to do one :p

adee-gee
09-22-2007, 04:57 PM
You are rooting for the bad man? :eek: ;)

I thought you like the real Swiss No. 1 - so you should keep fingers crossed for Stan against Radek :p
I do like the Swiss #1, that's why I'm hoping Berdych can do the business. Otherwise I can just see everyone bagging on Stan and the old "Federer carrying his country......"
Ok seriouly asking, Do you really think Berdych has a chance tomorrow?
Very small, he'll be pumped and he's beaten Federer. With the home crowd behind him, he's got a lot of things going for him. He'll need to play exceptionally well though, I can't imagine Federer going down without a fight even though he'll probably choke like he usually does in DC :smoke:

nobama
09-22-2007, 04:58 PM
There is plenty of time in-between the 1st round Davis Cup ties and Dubai. If Federer is so desperate to keep Switzerland in the World Group, the best method to do that would be for him to help Switzerland win their 1st round ties, so that they get to avoid these play-offs in September. In the last few years, Switzerland would have beaten the Netherlands at home in 2005, Australia at home in 2006, and Spain at home this year (no active Spanish players are capable of beating him on fast and low bouncing carpet), if Federer had been playing. Then he could have forgotten about the Davis Cup for another year after February.Seems to me it's the scheduling of the QFs that's the issue. This year Nadal chose not to play no doubt because of the upcoming clay court season. I can't see Fed playing R1, Switzerland winning and then him choosing to opt out for the rest of the year.

Byrd
09-22-2007, 05:03 PM
I havent done a Mirka joke in a while, you should be thankful I even took time to do one :p

Fair point, I guess I should do the compulsary rafa joke, but seeing that I just got Halo 3, I'll give it a miss, plus Glenns online :lol:

Johnny Groove
09-22-2007, 05:11 PM
Fair point, I guess I should do the compulsary rafa joke, but seeing that I just got Halo 3, I'll give it a miss, plus Glenns online :lol:

you already got halo 3? :eek:

In thought it came out Tuesday. At least in the States, it might be different in the PAL region

R.Federer
09-22-2007, 05:12 PM
Okay, here's your chance to finally make a big splash WAWA! Win the deciding rubber (after Federer spanks Berdy) and WIN THIS THING!!!!

fmolinari2005
09-22-2007, 05:24 PM
I find that argument nonsense. The team have stepped up, last year Wawrinka won both his singles rubbers against Australia and all it would have taken was one two-hour contribution from Federer to get them into a tie against Belarus to make the semis. Heck, the year before they narrowly lost to the Netherlands with Schalken defeating both Chiudinelli and Wawrinka by the skin of his teeth in five-setters. Why should the Swiss be the only ones to have to do without their top-ranked player when his presence would turn a lot of close defeats into a stroll, which wouldn't take that much out of Federer? How many other nations are expected to perform without their no. 1 man, how many could do so successfully?

Switzerland's best result with Federer in the team only came because one of his colleagues "stepped up", lest we forget - they would have lost in the first round in 2003 had Kratochvil not won the deciding rubber against Verkerk.

Last year, if I am not mistaken, Australia played without Lleyton too. So, it is not as if Stan defeated Lleyton and then Lucsak (sp?!) on the same tie. And Switzerland istn the only team to often time miss their number one player in ties too. And, except the spanish number one, all other local number ones generally dont play final after final, and generally dont reach major finals after major finals. There is a reason all those players have different priorities. It is easier to say that DC is your life and you will always play it when you reach a final once every three months.

And this tie isnt over yet. So, if the swiss team always have better results when the other guys step it up, now it is the time. Of course Roger will have a tough task ahead of him, beating Berdych.

About the fact that even stronger teams need their number one to win ties. True. But there is a tiny difference. Stronger teams need their best players in some ocasions, not all the time. They need them to get to the semi-finals, to win titles. However, they usually have a strong enough "B" team to carry them through the earlier stages.

This year, Switzerland got a rough deal with Stan injurying himself during the first tie. Because had he played, specially with Nadal injuring himself after Stan, they could had some chances of winning the tie. But, if both Roger and Nadal played the first round, the tie would'd been very tough. Probably it would'd been decided on the doubles match too.

About the "if Roger wanted to keep Switzerland on the world group he should'd played the first round". This is a myopic point of view. Because, lets imagine the following scenario: Roger takes the swiss team to the next round, and then doesnt play the second round. Many of those guys today saying that Roger doesnt care about DC would be saying the same if Roger did that. But their point would be "Oh, now that Roger has the chance of taking Switzerland to the title, he backs off and lets Stan and co to play with the big boys alone".

"Oh, so Roger should decide if he is going to play all matches, and not only this half-time deal". Then the bashing would be even worse, because if Switzerland falls, then people would say "see ... Roger really doesnt care, if he played the second tie, his team would still be in the world group".

And the same knowledgeable fellows here on this board should know, too, that the number one player doesnt necessarily makes a double-team unbeatable. I am not blaming Yves. It could be a Rafa/Roger double, and they still wouldnt be the toughest doubles team. And, as you said, many times Roger was the weak link in the past. It is a team competition. It is the entire team that loses, and that includes Roger.

Look. It is obvious that Roger not playing the DC is a selfish decision. It would take only a tard not seeing this. But I have a problem with people turning this decision into a witch hunt. It is quite understandable people questioning Roger's commitment to the DC. But is as understandable his half-time deal too. It is hugely unfair people saying that Roger doesnt care about DC, or that he is turning his back to Switzerland. Actually, most of the guys that say this are acting as Pseudo-patriots, with the main purpouse of bashing on Roger (I am not saying it is your case, btw). However, I think it is more fair bashing on Roger during the clay court season/ when he loses during regular tournaments, than during the DC. Federer was helped by the Swiss tennis federation, and his titles helped them too.

This Switzerland thing makes me remember the Guga/ Brazilian DC team. If I am not mitaken, Kuerten played most of the ties, and once took Brazil far into the DC competition. But, the question I ask is: how strong was Kuerten's long time effect on the brazilian squad?! NONE. Just look at today's result: Brazil is getting his ass kicked. Having one strong player playing all ties wont make the team, in the long term, better. Having one strong player on yout country might help raising interest among kids, and, if the federation is clever enough, they will use this "Federer/Guga" effect to build stronger teams in the future. My point is: Federer and Guga, regardless of how they did at the DC, by itself are a boost to tennis in their own countries. So, putting it all on the DC account is a bit unfair.

Bottom line is: yes, Federer was selfish on his decision to play half time for his team. Can we really blame him, and say that he doesnt care about the DC?! I dont think so. However, if the Swiss team is to really be a world group team, they will need other players. If Roger defeats Berdych, Stan will answer this question.

Eden
09-22-2007, 05:25 PM
I do like the Swiss #1, that's why I'm hoping Berdych can do the business. Otherwise I can just see everyone bagging on Stan and the old "Federer carrying his country......"


I see ;) But Stan is - probably - playing the deciding match and wouldn't it be nice if he would be the real hero of the weekend when he got the job done?

Regarding the criticism for Roger and his DC play: Give the guy a break. Isn't it enough that everyone expect him to win day in day out through the year? Tennis is an individual sport first of all and Roger will be remembered first and foremost for the number of Grand Slam titles he wins. Yes, the other top players are playing in the DC as well, but would they do so when they would have the same chances to make history on the tour like Roger?

I don't critize Rogers attitude to DC but for playing the bunch of exhibitions against Sampras. It's ok to have one showmatch, but there's no need for competete against each other several times. There is enough time for such exhibition matches when Rogers career is over.

MCL
09-22-2007, 05:25 PM
:hatoff: to Berdych and Stepanek

rosamunda
09-22-2007, 05:28 PM
All this argy bargy because they lost their doubles match. Sheesh..... If only they'd won that match point in the 3rd set tiebreak, there wouldn't be this conversation. I'm lost for words, really. If Fed didn't play any DC at all, he'd be hailed a traitor to the cause. The fact that he plays SOME apparently means that he's seen as a selfish prima donna who's wasting his time trying to keep la Suisse in the World Group, and should therefore not bother to play at all. So his only option (that would be acceptable to all, it seems) is that he play every single DC tie that comes along, irrespective of and probably quite detrimental to everything else going on in his tennis life. I feel quite sorry for the guy - damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, and damned if he half-does/half-doesn't. Do we get quite so worked up about any other top player who chooses not to devote their all to DC??? I don't think so.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 05:30 PM
Poor Roger he has to carry his country. Hey, maybe cause Lucho Horna isn't going to win Slams that he doesn't count, but he has had to carry a very average Peruvian team for ages and played this WG qualy tie with a disc problem in his back and they are going to make the World Group.

Federer should just make a decision and stick with it. Don't bother with DC or do it properly.

garad
09-22-2007, 05:31 PM
:rolls:

Did the pressure of "carrying his nation" get to the GOAT? :awww: :baby:

Good job Berdych and Sexy, now get the job done tomorrow. Preferably with Berdych beating Federer.

Typical for ARROGANT MTF TWATS like you to think that the doubles team was Federer/Federer. Unfortunately, even posters with brains (relax, not talking about you) would still talk about Roger only (chokes etc.) althought it takes two to play doubles. As Fed said, you do not have a total control of a doubles match.
But be happy, yes you found something to have a go at Fed with and cheer you up. Clutch it as you will, the normal service will be resumed tomorrow.

shotgun
09-22-2007, 05:37 PM
This Switzerland thing makes me remember the Guga/ Brazilian DC team. If I am not mitaken, Kuerten played most of the ties, and once took Brazil far into the DC competition. But, the question I ask is: how strong was Kuerten's long time effect on the brazilian squad?! NONE. Just look at today's result: Brazil is getting his ass kicked. Having one strong player playing all ties wont make the team, in the long term, better.

Huh? :confused: Who's talking about long term here? Guga at his prime helped Brazil to equal its best result ever in Davis Cup, reaching the semis in 2000. If Federer had the Davis Cup as one of his priorities, it's very likely he would also make history for Switzerland in the competition, probably leading them to their first title ever. Obviously, as time goes by, Federer will be a non-factor as much as Guga is right now, and people will look at the past to see if the opportunities to make history were seized, if the potential was explored to the maximum. They were with Guga in the case of the Brazilian team, but will they be with Federer in the case of the Swiss team? That's the point here.

ChinoRios4Ever
09-22-2007, 05:44 PM
Fed to the European-Asian Zone? :eek:

Eden
09-22-2007, 05:48 PM
Poor Roger he has to carry his country. Hey, maybe cause Lucho Horna isn't going to win Slams that he doesn't count, but he has had to carry a very average Peruvian team for ages and played this WG qualy tie with a disc problem in his back and they are going to make the World Group.

Nobody said that the achievements of other players don't count.
DC is a huge opportunity for players to call attentions - same goes for the tennis tournament at Olympics -, but Federer won't be remembered for his performances in the DC.

GlennMirnyi
09-22-2007, 05:49 PM
Typical for ARROGANT MTF TWATS like you to think that the doubles team was Federer/Federer. Unfortunately, even posters with brains (relax, not talking about you) would still talk about Roger only (chokes etc.) althought it takes two to play doubles. As Fed said, you do not have a total control of a doubles match.
But be happy, yes you found something to have a go at Fed with and cheer you up. Clutch it as you will, the normal service will be resumed tomorrow.

He's just being the usual opportunist, don't worry.

nobama
09-22-2007, 05:54 PM
Bottom line is: yes, Federer was selfish on his decision to play half time for his team. Can we really blame him, and say that he doesnt care about the DC?! I dont think so. However, if the Swiss team is to really be a world group team, they will need other players. If Roger defeats Berdych, Stan will answer this question.He's not the first player to be selfish re: DC. And not the first one to be criticized for lack of commitment either. Nadal got flack this year for skipping the QF.

Hopefully Stan will step it up tomorrow and prove that Switzerland deserves to be in the World Group.

t0x
09-22-2007, 06:02 PM
Amazing come back!

Feel a bit sorry for Fed/Allegro :( Sooo close.

And bloody hell.. why bash Fed? Seriosuly, I imagine the vast majority of Swiss people would prefer see Roger concentrate on his singles career and winning grand slams than putting energy out on the Davis cup. I mean the guy is expected to win 99% of the matches he plays, nearly always gets to finals - give him a break!

fmolinari2005
09-22-2007, 06:05 PM
Huh? :confused: Who's talking about long term here? Guga at his prime helped Brazil to equal its best result ever in Davis Cup, reaching the semis in 2000. If Federer had the Davis Cup as one of his priorities, it's very likely he would also make history for Switzerland in the competition, probably leading them to their first title ever. Obviously, as time goes by, Federer will be a non-factor as much as Guga is right now, and people will look at the past to see if the opportunities to make history were seized, if the potential was explored to the maximum. They were with Guga in the case of the Brazilian team, but will they be with Federer in the case of the Swiss team? That's the point here.


Really?! Do you see Federer/ Stan/ Yves beating, for example, Roddick, Blake and the Brian brothers?! Roger might beat Roddick and Blake. Still, odds are that Blake, Roddick and Brian brothers would still get the best of the Swiss team. And, then, they will have to play Argentina/ Russia ... or Spain. Do you get my drift?! Specially with them struggling to win a play off.

Brazil reaching semi-finals on DC is one of those "every once in 30 years" fluke. The same with Switzerland. If you ask any brazilian about tennis abot what was more historical: that semi-final or Guga winning 3 FO?! There you go ...

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 06:06 PM
Nobody said that the achievements of other players don't count.
DC is a huge opportunity for players to call attentions - same goes for the tennis tournament at Olympics -, but Federer won't be remembered for his performances in the DC.

People make it like Federer is the only one to have to carry his country. Becker did it when the Germans were great in Davis Cup. He is not the only great player who has to had to carry his countries hopes.

If he doesn't want to play Davis Cup that is fine, just say so instead of his half hearted bullshit and token representation.

Flibbertigibbet
09-22-2007, 06:07 PM
Darn, another Davis Cup loss from two sets up. :( Stepanek is a very good doubles player, though, and Berdych has the huge serve and is comfortable indoors, so I guess it isn't totally unexpected. I really hope Federer and Wawrinka can pull off something amazing tomorrow, but I doubt it - the Czechs deserve to be in the World Group, though, they might have a chance to go past the first round unlike Switzerland. :o I'll admit I'm also one who wishes Federer played those February ties.

Eden
09-22-2007, 06:10 PM
People make it like Federer is the only one to have to carry his country. Becker did it when the Germans were great in Davis Cup. He is not the only great player who has to had to carry his countries hopes.

Read my post in the Swiss Rant thread ;)


Of course Roger carries the team, we had the same in Germany with Becker. He had to win the 2 points and get the job done in the doubles together with Eric Jelen

fmolinari2005
09-22-2007, 06:11 PM
Poor Roger he has to carry his country. Hey, maybe cause Lucho Horna isn't going to win Slams that he doesn't count, but he has had to carry a very average Peruvian team for ages and played this WG qualy tie with a disc problem in his back and they are going to make the World Group.

Federer should just make a decision and stick with it. Don't bother with DC or do it properly.

Poor Lucho Horna, because everybody expects him to win all tournaments he plays at and having every step he take scrutinized that deeply too! That must be tough for him reaching 4 out of 4 GS finals per year and still having to play for the DC. I dont know how he does that too ...

Flibbertigibbet
09-22-2007, 06:12 PM
People make it like Federer is the only one to have to carry his country. Becker did it when the Germans were great in Davis Cup. He is not the only great player who has to had to carry his countries hopes.

If he doesn't want to play Davis Cup that is fine, just say so instead of his half hearted bullshit and token representation.

I agree - I don't know my Davis Cup lore as well as many here, but you always hear of even many of the best players in the world having to carry their team. Though in my honest opinion, even if Federer played every tie, they'd have to be incredibly lucky to win the whole thing. It's just the principle behind it, he used to be a lot more active with Davis Cup when he was younger, but now he's opting to conserve energy for the tournaments (though does one tie really exert that much physical toll on you, if you are as fit as Federer?), which is unfortunate for the Swiss team.

rosamunda
09-22-2007, 06:12 PM
Huh? :confused: Who's talking about long term here? Guga at his prime helped Brazil to equal its best result ever in Davis Cup, reaching the semis in 2000. If Federer had the Davis Cup as one of his priorities, it's very likely he would also make history for Switzerland in the competition, probably leading them to their first title ever. Obviously, as time goes by, Federer will be a non-factor as much as Guga is right now, and people will look at the past to see if the opportunities to make history were seized, if the potential was explored to the maximum. They were with Guga in the case of the Brazilian team, but will they be with Federer in the case of the Swiss team? That's the point here.

I think the problem is that Federer is in an (enviably) unique position. Nobody else either now, or in the past, has had the chance to run down just about every tennis record known to man, never mind in such a short timeframe. Fair enough, people will look back and argue the toss about whether Federer missed a vital window of opportunity to set Swiss tennis prominently on the DC map and, if they never go far without him, there will undoubtedly be a negative spin on that. And, if his mega-powers go on the wane before he finally commits fully to DC, and Switzerland then gets nowhere, I'm sure he'll be hung from the highest patriotism tree and be forced to shed his blood all over it to feed it and make amends.

But you can't do everything all at once. And, if Federer did, wouldn't that jeopardise his chase for history (scheduling apparently being one of the major keys to his success)? And should we blame him if he thinks his personal career is more important than his country's at this particular point in time? Perhaps we should, but then sportsmen, particularly those playing individual sports, are by definition selfish, ambitious, inward-looking, self-dedicating and so on and so forth. They don't function/think like us mere mortals. That's what makes them great....and the rest of us not so great. And, if they're extra-great, well, we've no chance of understanding what makes them tick, let alone the hows and whys of what makes them prioritise the way they do.

I agree with others that his attitude is selfish, but I can accept that it is without feeling qualified or inclined to judge him on it.

shotgun
09-22-2007, 06:17 PM
Really?! Do you see Federer/ Stan/ Yves beating, for example, Roddick, Blake and the Brian brothers?! Roger might beat Roddick and Blake. Still, odds are that Blake, Roddick and Brian brothers would still get the best of the Swiss team. And, then, they will have to play Argentina/ Russia ... or Spain. Do you get my drift?! Specially with them struggling to win a play off.

Brazil reaching semi-finals on DC is one of those "every once in 30 years" fluke. The same with Switzerland. If you ask any brazilian about tennis abot what was more historical: that semi-final or Guga winning 3 FO?! There you go ...

With some luck in the draw, Switzerland wouldn't have to face the USA. And it's not a guarantee Blake would beat Wawrinka, check his DC record. Switzerland with Federer, Wawrinka and Allegro still have one of the best teams in Davis Cup, people are throwing hissy fits this weekend but they forget the Czech Republic playing on indoor carpet with Berdych and Stepanek have one of the strongest teams in the world.

You're comparing the Brazilian team with Guga and Meligeni, who would struggle to win any tie outside clay, to an all-surface team with Federer and Wawrinka? Yes, Guga won 3 French Open and still had a strong commitment to Davis Cup, see how it's possible? Committing to Davis Cup doesn't stand in the way of winning Slams, Federer did it in 2004 and it was one of his best seasons.

Whistleway
09-22-2007, 06:20 PM
But you can't do everything all at once. And, if Federer did, wouldn't that jeopardise his chase for history (scheduling apparently being one of the major keys to his success)?

Ha.. though not comparable to DC, I can't see how playing 4 exho with 3 of them back-to-back-to-back would help his schedule in anyway either.

GlennMirnyi
09-22-2007, 06:24 PM
With some luck in the draw, Switzerland wouldn't have to face the USA. And it's not a guarantee Blake would beat Wawrinka, check his DC record. Switzerland with Federer, Wawrinka and Allegro still have one of the best teams in Davis Cup, people are throwing hissy fits this weekend but they forget the Czech Republic playing on indoor carpet with Berdych and Stepanek have one of the strongest teams in the world.

You're comparing the Brazilian team with Guga and Meligeni, who would struggle to win any tie outside clay, to an all-surface team with Federer and Wawrinka? Yes, Guga won 3 French Open and still had a strong commitment to Davis Cup, see how it's possible? Committing to Davis Cup doesn't stand in the way of winning Slams, Federer did it in 2004 and it was one of his best seasons.

Agreed. People are taking the Czechs for granted. Stepanek is playing like a top 10 again, it seems and Berdych ain't no usual player, he can reach very high levels.

rosamunda
09-22-2007, 06:25 PM
Ha.. though not comparable to DC, I can't see how playing 4 exho with 3 of them back-to-back-to-back would help his schedule in anyway either.

But aren't they happening during the 'school holidays'? The 3 back-to-back aren't going to be sandwiched in between meaningful tournaments..... And they won't exactly involve brain strain (unless they both take it all DEEPLY seriously).

nobama
09-22-2007, 06:25 PM
Ha.. though not comparable to DC, I can't see how playing 4 exho with 3 of them back-to-back-to-back would help his schedule in anyway either.
I'm no fan of the exhos with Sampras, but at least 3 of them are after TMC. The stupid MSG event is the same day IW starts. :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 06:27 PM
Poor Lucho Horna, because everybody expects him to win all tournaments he plays at and having every step he take scrutinized that deeply too! That must be tough for him reaching 4 out of 4 GS finals per year and still having to play for the DC. I dont know how he does that too ...

You just proved my point from before to the full.

Jimmy Connors didn't care for Davis Cup, he was honest about not caring for it, as it got in the way. Did I agree with it? No, but he had his convictions and stuck to them, that is more respectful than what Federer is doing, but you can't see that for some reason.

He can play Dubai and exhos during the season, but a few DC matches a year, which for the most part he wins easily are really going to tire him out.

The Czechs aren't a bunch of arse clowns as a team in fact they are one of the best teams in the playoff, so keep understimating them.

nobama
09-22-2007, 06:37 PM
You just proved my point from before to the full.

Jimmy Connors didn't care for Davis Cup, he was honest about not caring for it, as it got in the way. Did I agree with it? No, but he had his convictions and stuck to them, that is more respectful than what Federer is doing, but you can't see that for some reason.The Czechs very well may win this tie and then it won't much matter what Federer did will it?

Sunset of Age
09-22-2007, 06:37 PM
I don't critize Rogers attitude to DC but for playing the bunch of exhibitions against Sampras. It's ok to have one showmatch, but there's no need for competete against each other several times. There is enough time for such exhibition matches when Rogers career is over.

Indeed. :mad: Now there you have a 'good' reason to criticize Roger - him skipping DC matches is not.

Congrats to Tomas and Radek, BTW! Coming back from two sets down... impressive.

Gulliver
09-22-2007, 06:38 PM
I don't know why people are so surprised at a loss to Berdych and Stepanek who are ranked 10 and 34(a former 8 before injury), yet don't vilify Petzschner/Waske def Tursunov/Youzhny 6-3 3-6 7-6 7-6 in the same way. But, of course, it's a golden opportunity to bash Fed (and they don't come along that often). Let's see, should play all DC ties (who are you all? Swiss citizens?) Should win all his matches...give me a break.

rosamunda
09-22-2007, 06:47 PM
Jimmy Connors didn't care for Davis Cup, he was honest about not caring for it, as it got in the way. Did I agree with it? No, but he had his convictions and stuck to them, that is more respectful than what Federer is doing, but you can't see that for some reason.



I can't see it either. How on earth is Federer being lessrespectful than someone who didn't play at all (though I think Connors played once, maybe, but not for reasons of patriotism)!! Sticking to convictions often has more to do with stubbornness than respect. You could say that Federer sticks to his convictions to help Switzerland stay in the World Group. I presume you're saying that that conviction is less worthy than Connors' conviction not to play at all, and that perhaps he's taking the p*ss? Connors couldn't be arsed, it's as simple as that; Fed is perhaps half-arsed, but I would have thought that half an arse was better than none.:D

fmolinari2005
09-22-2007, 06:47 PM
With some luck in the draw, Switzerland wouldn't have to face the USA. And it's not a guarantee Blake would beat Wawrinka, check his DC record. Switzerland with Federer, Wawrinka and Allegro still have one of the best teams in Davis Cup, people are throwing hissy fits this weekend but they forget the Czech Republic playing on indoor carpet with Berdych and Stepanek have one of the strongest teams in the world.

You're comparing the Brazilian team with Guga and Meligeni, who would struggle to win any tie outside clay, to an all-surface team with Federer and Wawrinka? Yes, Guga won 3 French Open and still had a strong commitment to Davis Cup, see how it's possible? Committing to Davis Cup doesn't stand in the way of winning Slams, Federer did it in 2004 and it was one of his best seasons.


With some luck in the draw, the Swiss team wouldn be playing the Czech team now. And all the luck in the world wont prevent them not facing better teams in the latter stages. Because, all it takes is a strong team like the Czech one, to show how tough it is to go further at the DC draw.

And Roger is an all-surface player. Not Wawrinka. He has one title, and it was on clay. And this year he is having a rough season, recovering from injury.

About Brazil and the 2000 DC team: 1st round against France, played on clay at Brazil. 2nd round against Czech republic: played on clay, at Brazil. Semi-final: at Australia, probably not on clay, Brazil lost 0-5 ... There you have it. Luck can carry you only so far- specially with where you play the match.

And Guga, at 2000, had one of his best seasons, winning two MS and the FO. Still, his career still revolved around the clay court season. Guga didnt have the same aspirations of Roger in other GS/ MS tournaments- therefore, it is not as tough commiting to the DC team.

Again: yes, Roger is more selfish than Guga was with the DC thing. I am not arguing with that. But it isnt without a reason. How many players on history reached at least 4/4 GS semi-finals in 4 straight years?! And it is not only because they play the DC, but is because they are mainly not good enough for doing that.So, their options are more limited ...and, for a lot of players, including some top ten, the DC is one of the main shots at winning at big title. But not with Roger.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 06:49 PM
The Czechs very well may win this tie and then it won't much matter what Federer did will it?

You are the one straight away who blamed Allegro for losing this and that is a shit attitude.

There is no i in team, but actually it will because of Fed's attitude to the event they get relegated, when he skips ties when he feels like it, but they might not get relegated.

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 06:54 PM
I can't see it either. How on earth is Federer being lessrespectful than someone who didn't play at all (though I think Connors played once, maybe, but not for reasons of patriotism)!! Sticking to convictions often has more to do with stubbornness than respect. You could say that Federer sticks to his convictions to help Switzerland stay in the World Group. I presume you're saying that that conviction is less worthy than Connors' conviction not to play at all, and that perhaps he's taking the p*ss? Connors couldn't be arsed, it's as simple as that; Fed is perhaps half-arsed, but I would have thought that half an arse was better than none.:D

Connors was a prick who only cared for himself, but at least he told them in advance at the start of the season I am not playing.

Sampras was another one who didn't really appreciate Davis Cup, especially after 1995 when he won the cup with heroic efforts, and he didn't feel recognised for that and it's the same with him. He'd say yes or no at the start of the season whether he plays or not.

Sjengster explained it clearly, it's like "oh I am committed to Davis Cup, when the reality is different".

dijus
09-22-2007, 06:54 PM
just clinch this tie Radek, please

fmolinari2005
09-22-2007, 06:57 PM
You just proved my point from before to the full.

Jimmy Connors didn't care for Davis Cup, he was honest about not caring for it, as it got in the way. Did I agree with it? No, but he had his convictions and stuck to them, that is more respectful than what Federer is doing, but you can't see that for some reason.

He can play Dubai and exhos during the season, but a few DC matches a year, which for the most part he wins easily are really going to tire him out.

The Czechs aren't a bunch of arse clowns as a team in fact they are one of the best teams in the playoff, so keep understimating them.

Where did I say that the Czechs are a bunch of arse clowns?! If you will accuse me of something, do it right. Check your facts before putting words in my mouth.

Again. If Roger lead the Swiss team to the second round, only to avoid them getting kicked out of the world group, people would still accuse him of not caring for the DC. Their arguements would be "How dare Roger leaves the team now that they have a shot at going far on the tournament?", "How insensitive of leaving Wawrinka alone when it comes to a big match?!". So, saying that the DC is only a couple of matches, inst actually true.

You are seeing the world in absolute terms only. Something not being a priority doesnt mean you dont care about it. That is what you cant understand it seems. I agree that Roger not playing the 1st round is something questionable. But this "black and white" view of the world is very limited.

Roger's DC priorities now is to keep the Swiss team at the World Group. That is what he says.You might argue that it would be best for him playing the first round. But you cant say that he isnt sticking to what he thinks- because he is trying to keep Switzerland at the WG by playing this week.

groundstroke
09-22-2007, 07:04 PM
Sucks to be Swiss.

rosamunda
09-22-2007, 07:10 PM
Connors was a prick who only cared for himself, but at least he told them in advance at the start of the season I am not playing.

Sampras was another one who didn't really appreciate Davis Cup, especially after 1995 when he won the cup with heroic efforts, and he didn't feel recognised for that and it's the same with him. He'd say yes or no at the start of the season whether he plays or not.

Sjengster explained it clearly, it's like "oh I am committed to Davis Cup, when the reality is different".

But they all know in advance that he'll play in the playoffs but not in the ensuing first round. We all know year in year out that that's what he does nowadays. What's the difference?? And why is telling them of such paramount importance anyway? It's not like they'd all be hanging around in limbo unable to function until they'd received word, is it!

ReturnWinner
09-22-2007, 07:12 PM
:worship: but surpised Czech captain put Berdych instead Vizner or Damn

Mechlan
09-22-2007, 07:19 PM
What the hell was Navratil thinking pairing Berdych and Stepanek when CZE have so many accomplished doubles players? :lol:

Lucky they pulled through. Now things become very tough for SUI. Berdych if he plays well is capable of winning, but I don't see it. Tomorrow will be Sexy's day.

GlennMirnyi
09-22-2007, 07:22 PM
Stepanek was a sure pick, otherwise he would have called Vizner instead of Damm. The surprise here was Berdych.

shotgun
09-22-2007, 07:23 PM
With some luck in the draw, the Swiss team wouldn be playing the Czech team now. And all the luck in the world wont prevent them not facing better teams in the latter stages. Because, all it takes is a strong team like the Czech one, to show how tough it is to go further at the DC draw.

And Roger is an all-surface player. Not Wawrinka. He has one title, and it was on clay. And this year he is having a rough season, recovering from injury.

About Brazil and the 2000 DC team: 1st round against France, played on clay at Brazil. 2nd round against Czech republic: played on clay, at Brazil. Semi-final: at Australia, probably not on clay, Brazil lost 0-5 ... There you have it. Luck can carry you only so far- specially with where you play the match.

And Guga, at 2000, had one of his best seasons, winning two MS and the FO. Still, his career still revolved around the clay court season. Guga didnt have the same aspirations of Roger in other GS/ MS tournaments- therefore, it is not as tough commiting to the DC team.

Again: yes, Roger is more selfish than Guga was with the DC thing. I am not arguing with that. But it isnt without a reason. How many players on history reached at least 4/4 GS semi-finals in 4 straight years?! And it is not only because they play the DC, but is because they are mainly not good enough for doing that.So, their options are more limited ...and, for a lot of players, including some top ten, the DC is one of the main shots at winning at big title. But not with Roger.

No. Had Federer played the first round, they wouldn't be playing the Czechs now. This isn't about luck. Besides, they haven't lost the tie yet and you're saying as if they would need a miracle to get past each Davis Cup tie, when Federer assures at least two points and Wawrinka and Allegro aren't walkovers either.

Wawrinka's best Slam so far has been the USO, on hardcourt, he beat Nalbandian last year on carpet - he's far from being a claycourter.

Yes, you've just proven my point. Brazil were a limited team outside clay, therefore they can't be compared to today's Switzerland.

Point taken, although I repeat - Federer playing a few more matches a year instead of worrying about making numbers for himself on the tour (and I'm not talking about his top priorities like winning Roland Garros or the Calendar Slam) wouldn't hurt his legacy.

fmolinari2005
09-22-2007, 07:57 PM
No. Had Federer played the first round, they wouldn't be playing the Czechs now. This isn't about luck. Besides, they haven't lost the tie yet and you're saying as if they would need a miracle to get past each Davis Cup tie, when Federer assures at least two points and Wawrinka and Allegro aren't walkovers either.

Wawrinka's best Slam so far has been the USO, on hardcourt, he beat Nalbandian last year on carpet - he's far from being a claycourter.

Yes, you've just proven my point. Brazil were a limited team outside clay, therefore they can't be compared to today's Switzerland.

Point taken, although I repeat - Federer playing a few more matches a year instead of worrying about making numbers for himself on the tour (and I'm not talking about his top priorities like winning Roland Garros or the Calendar Slam) wouldn't hurt his legacy.


Sorry. I dont get it. You say that with a little luck Switzerland could go far on the tournament: that is why I brought Brazil reaching semi-finals- because they were lucky enough to play a lot of rounds on clay. If they had played Czech Republic on carpet, maybe they wouldnt got to the semi-finals. That was my point: I agree with you that our team is "clay dependent". But my point is: luck alone dont make a DC champion.


Wawrinka has sporadic good results on fast courts. But he isnt as consistent on hard courts as he is at the clay courts. That was my point.

Well. I meant that drawing the Czech republic isnt a "dream" draw. They could'd drawed other countries instead, that is what I meant. However, things are the way things are, and I think that saying "oh, poor switzerland, they drawed a tought team" is a cheap shot and sort of a cry baby thing to do. I just wrote that to say that the swiss team is dependent on luck not only to win the DC, as you suggested, but even to be at the WG.

Anyway. As you wrote, the tie isnt over. To be honest, I would love to see Wawrinka being the one winning the decisive point. It would even be a sort of "wake up" call for Roger regarding the DC.

Your view that Federer playing a few more matches a year instead of worrying about making numbers for himself on the tour wouldnt hurt his legacy is totally valid. Roger's decision about the DC is something questionable indeed. My only problem is with those trying to demonize Roger for doing that.

Bad Religion
09-22-2007, 08:03 PM
Federer playing where he belongs next year :haha:

scarecrows
09-22-2007, 08:04 PM
Federer playing where he belongs next year :haha:

in grand slam finals? :scratch:

Bad Religion
09-22-2007, 08:08 PM
in grand slam finals? :scratch:

Africa - Europe zone :D

LinkMage
09-22-2007, 08:15 PM
Glad Fed's choking habits finally bite him in the ass.

Hopefully Fed will wake the hell up now and stop choking in matches where he's in control. I'm sick of Fed getting broken when serving for sets/matches like it happened yesterday against Stepanek where he should have closed the match 6-4 in the 3rd.

Marek.
09-22-2007, 08:18 PM
Glad Fed's choking habits finally bite him in the ass.

Hopefully Fed will wake the hell up now and stop choking in matches where he's in control. I'm sick of Fed getting broken when serving for sets/matches like it happened yesterday against Stepanek where he should have closed the match 6-4 in the 3rd.

Did you even see the match?

GonzoFed
09-22-2007, 08:20 PM
Glad Fed's choking habits finally bite him in the ass.

Hopefully Fed will wake the hell up now and stop choking in matches where he's in control. I'm sick of Fed getting broken when serving for sets/matches like it happened yesterday against Stepanek where he should have closed the match 6-4 in the 3rd.

:retard: :retard: :retard: :retard: :retard:

Eden
09-22-2007, 08:26 PM
Glad Fed's choking habits finally bite him in the ass.

Hopefully Fed will wake the hell up now and stop choking in matches where he's in control. I'm sick of Fed getting broken when serving for sets/matches like it happened yesterday against Stepanek where he should have closed the match 6-4 in the 3rd.

Roger and Yves had the MP at 6:5 on Berdychs serve. Allegro hit the ball into the net.

Roger didn't lost his serve throughout the whole match.

Voo de Mar
09-22-2007, 08:32 PM
It's not the first time that Roger lost doubles match after 2 sets lead and tie-break in the third set...
Wimbledon 2000, QF:
Federer/A.Kratzmann - Haarhuis/Stolle 7-6(5) 7-5 6-7(2) 2-6 2-6
I don't know anything about MP wasted in that match.

Byrd
09-22-2007, 08:35 PM
you already got halo 3? :eek:

In thought it came out Tuesday. At least in the States, it might be different in the PAL region

Yea I work at a retail store, so deliveries come in earlier so we have enough in stock (211 copies Lol). I got mine on friday but wasn't going to play till tuesday because I went halves on it with my bro so we could experience it together at the same time, but he didn't mind me playing it early so I just sessioned it for a few hours, great game, just to get my xbox live account up now.

Btw it isn't out till wednesday in UK haha.

FedFan_2007
09-22-2007, 08:35 PM
Africa - Europe zone :D

Poor Roger, winning grand slam titles like other people win bingo and slumming it in the Africa/Euro zone. Poor Roger. :sad: :sad:

:devil: :devil: :devil:

FedFan_2007
09-22-2007, 08:37 PM
As usual Fed can't overcome a shitty doubles partner.

***Daniela86***
09-22-2007, 08:47 PM
Congrats Stepanek/Berdych :rocker2: :banana: Great job,what a fight :hearts: :rocker2: :rocker2:

Marek.
09-22-2007, 08:49 PM
It's not the first time that Roger lost doubles match after 2 sets lead and tie-break in the third set...
Wimbledon 2000, QF:
Federer/A.Kratzmann - Haarhuis/Stolle 7-6(5) 7-5 6-7(2) 2-6 2-6
I don't know anything about MP wasted in that match.

Has he ever won a five setter in doubles? I know he lost another one in Davis Cup and one at Wimbledon with Hewitt.

Voo de Mar
09-22-2007, 08:52 PM
Has he ever won a five setter in doubles? I know he lost another one in Davis Cup and one at Wimbledon with Hewitt.

Yes, Federer has won 4 matches in doubles, each of them with different partner:
Hewitt & A.Kratzmann - Wimbledon
Manta & Allegro - Davis Cup

Gulliver
09-22-2007, 08:54 PM
As usual Fed can't overcome a shitty doubles partner.

You mean like Tursunov and Youzhny :cool:
I've never been so frustrated watching a match in my life, and that says something. So frustrating watching Misha/Dima choke returns when Waske barely could serve in the last set. Had they broken right away early in the fourth set when Waske got hurt, it would have been a different match and would have forced Germany to play a 5th set.

Kind of puts the Swiss loss in perspective against players of the calibre of Berdych and Stepanek :)

LinkMage
09-22-2007, 08:54 PM
Did you even see the match?


No. But I read that yesterday he made 2 DFs and a couple of UEs to hand the break back to Stepanek when serving for the match. Then in the 4th set he was 4-1 up and couldn't hold on that lead.

I've seen tons of matches where Fed is cruising winning his service games easily but suddenly when he has to serve for a set/match he can't put a 1st serve in to save his life and starts doing silly UEs to get broken.

Marek.
09-22-2007, 08:59 PM
No. But I read that yesterday he made 2 DFs and a couple of UEs to hand the break back to Stepanek when serving for the match. Then in the 4th set he was 4-1 up and couldn't hold on that lead.

I've seen tons of matches where Fed is cruising winning his service games easily but suddenly when he has to serve for a set/match he can't put a 1st serve in to save his life and starts doing silly UEs to get broken.

He still won that match so who really cares. I admit, I didn't see todays match but I heard that the Czechs played great to win that tie-break and take the following two sets.

This happens to everyone. All of the greats have had days where they're cruising but end up letting the opponent back into the match. In the end it just matters about getting the win which is what Federer has done almost every time.

Gulliver
09-22-2007, 09:11 PM
Why is all the focus on Federer losing a Doubles match? Was he on his own? Weren't there 2 players on the other side of the net? Hasn't Stepanek won more Doubles titles than Federer? Looking at the stats, and reading reports from those actually there, the Czechs were on fire and Allegro got tired, missed 1st serves and started making errors.

nobama
09-22-2007, 09:18 PM
No. But I read that yesterday he made 2 DFs and a couple of UEs to hand the break back to Stepanek when serving for the match. Then in the 4th set he was 4-1 up and couldn't hold on that lead.

I've seen tons of matches where Fed is cruising winning his service games easily but suddenly when he has to serve for a set/match he can't put a 1st serve in to save his life and starts doing silly UEs to get broken.Ok but that has f*ck all to do with today's match. Allegro was the one who dumped a volley on match point and had his serve broken in the 4th and 5th set. Fed never dumped serve today. Team SUI served up 23 aces (I'm guessing most of those came from Fed) to only 9 for CZE. When Fed & Allegro played the Bryans in Montreal it was Allegro that lost them the match in the 3rd set TB. Unfortunately he's not a strong enough doubles player and doesn't play/win often enough to get better.

FedFan_2007
09-22-2007, 09:33 PM
BTW, just as an analogy Tiger always sucks in Ryder Cup alternate-stroke play. Whereas during singles play, he rocks.

FedFan_2007
09-22-2007, 09:34 PM
Honestly Fed should pull a Hingis on Allego - he's too old and slow. Martina is the master of that. Remember what she did to Jana Novotna.

Byrd
09-22-2007, 10:05 PM
FedFan and Mirkaland match made in Federer heaven, its on the cards people.

LinkMage
09-22-2007, 10:25 PM
Ok but that has f*ck all to do with today's match. Allegro was the one who dumped a volley on match point and had his serve broken in the 4th and 5th set. Fed never dumped serve today. Team SUI served up 23 aces (I'm guessing most of those came from Fed) to only 9 for CZE. When Fed & Allegro played the Bryans in Montreal it was Allegro that lost them the match in the 3rd set TB. Unfortunately he's not a strong enough doubles player and doesn't play/win often enough to get better.



So Fed hasn't got anything to do with Allegro being broken? Maybe Allegro was broken because Fed wasn't good enough at finishing the points at the net or something.

TMJordan
09-22-2007, 10:27 PM
Stop complaining, the better doubles team won.

Stepanek used to be a doubles speialist and has a great doubles game, don't you know that?

nobama
09-22-2007, 10:41 PM
So Fed hasn't got anything to do with Allegro being broken? Maybe Allegro was broken because Fed wasn't good enough at finishing the points at the net or something.I'm basing my comments off of what I read from those who actually watched the match. Apparently Allegro started out strong, Berdych slow but then things reversed. Allegro started missing more 1st serves and making more errors.

rwn
09-22-2007, 10:55 PM
It's funny how narrow the view of a lot of people here is. This only proves that the Swiss Davis Cup team is not good enough at the moment to win the Davis Cup. It's better for Federer to concentrate on winning slams. Why give all your powers to reach second round or semifinal in the Davis Cup if that interferes with winning slams ? It would be incredibly stupid from Federer to do that.

adee-gee
09-23-2007, 12:44 AM
Ok but that has f*ck all to do with today's match. Allegro was the one who dumped a volley on match point and had his serve broken in the 4th and 5th set. Fed never dumped serve today. Team SUI served up 23 aces (I'm guessing most of those came from Fed) to only 9 for CZE. When Fed & Allegro played the Bryans in Montreal it was Allegro that lost them the match in the 3rd set TB. Unfortunately he's not a strong enough doubles player and doesn't play/win often enough to get better.
Who plays better out of the team isn't necessarily who holds serve the most. In fact, their ability to hold is often dependant on how the partner moves at the net.

World Beater
09-23-2007, 12:46 AM
Who plays better out of the team isn't necessarily who holds serve the most. In fact, their ability to hold is often dependant on how the partner moves at the net.

did you even see the match?

if not, then you better keep quiet

adee-gee
09-23-2007, 12:49 AM
did you even see the match?

if not, then you better keep quiet
:awww: someone seems a little upset :hug:

Did my post have anything to do with this match? I was simply making a point about doubles as a whole. And if you only want people who have seen the match to comment on it, I'd suggest this thread would still be on a 1st page rather than an 11th :)

dj_mercury
09-23-2007, 12:49 AM
At 2.15 of this video (http://www.sf.tv/var/videoplayer.php?videourl=http%3A%2F%2Freal.xobix.c h%2Framgen%2Fsfdrs%2Fvod%2Fspak%2F2007%2F09%2Fspak _20070922.rm%3Fstart%3D0%3A35%3A21.853%26amp%3Bend %3D0%3A40%3A16.560) you can see a rather entertaining point of the match and also the highlights of the most important moments.

World Beater
09-23-2007, 12:57 AM
:awww: someone seems a little upset :hug:

Did my post have anything to do with this match? I was simply making a point about doubles as a whole. And if you only want people who have seen the match to comment on it, I'd suggest this thread would still be on a 1st page rather than an 11th :)

no, because you make yourself look like a fool when your point had nothing to do with the match. You are trying to be a smartass with that comment so I call you out on it.

I'm not littering my posts with useless smilies and if you knew anything about my views, you would realize i want the the czech to win this tie.

adee-gee
09-23-2007, 01:05 AM
no, because you make yourself look like a fool when your point had nothing to do with the match. You are trying to be a smartass with that comment so I call you out on it.

I'm not littering my posts with useless smilies and if you knew anything about my views, you would realize i want the the czech to win this tie.
The point is a perfectly valid one. In the Britain match today, Henman and Murray were broken an equal number of times....does that mean they served and played equally well? I think it was pretty clear to anyone watching that Henman served a lot better and played a lot better in general.

Is it so Federer can concentrate on breaking history and not bother with the needless Davis Cup? :D

World Beater
09-23-2007, 01:49 AM
The point is a perfectly valid one. In the Britain match today, Henman and Murray were broken an equal number of times....does that mean they served and played equally well? I think it was pretty clear to anyone watching that Henman served a lot better and played a lot better in general.

Is it so Federer can concentrate on breaking history and not bother with the needless Davis Cup? :D

the earth is round...this point i think is valid too, no?

no. I am not so far up my favorite's ass to criticize federer unlike some here. I want the swiss to be relegated because then federer can be taught a lesson.

Action Jackson
09-23-2007, 07:53 AM
But they all know in advance that he'll play in the playoffs but not in the ensuing first round. We all know year in year out that that's what he does nowadays. What's the difference?? And why is telling them of such paramount importance anyway? It's not like they'd all be hanging around in limbo unable to function until they'd received word, is it!

As I said more than enough times in this thread. Playing DC after the AO is not going to kill him and none of the 1st round ties he missed where they lost, were difficult at all.

He plays then and then keeps them in the World Group, irrespective of what happens after that. Davis Cup over in Feb for Federer, really not hard to work that out, is it?

Action Jackson
09-23-2007, 07:59 AM
Where did I say that the Czechs are a bunch of arse clowns?! If you will accuse me of something, do it right. Check your facts before putting words in my mouth.

Again. If Roger lead the Swiss team to the second round, only to avoid them getting kicked out of the world group, people would still accuse him of not caring for the DC. Their arguements would be "How dare Roger leaves the team now that they have a shot at going far on the tournament?", "How insensitive of leaving Wawrinka alone when it comes to a big match?!". So, saying that the DC is only a couple of matches, inst actually true.

You are seeing the world in absolute terms only. Something not being a priority doesnt mean you dont care about it. That is what you cant understand it seems. I agree that Roger not playing the 1st round is something questionable. But this "black and white" view of the world is very limited.

Roger's DC priorities now is to keep the Swiss team at the World Group. That is what he says.You might argue that it would be best for him playing the first round. But you cant say that he isnt sticking to what he thinks- because he is trying to keep Switzerland at the WG by playing this week.

You are one the bemoaning the luck of the Swiss. Fact is Federer created this problem with DC himself.

I am not seeing it in absolute terms. If he wants to keep his team in the WG, then he should play the 1st round ties and then the mission is done.

The other shit is irrelevant, if his sole goal is to keep Switzerland in the World Group, win the 1st round match and if he played against the Aussies, the Dutch and the Spanish with Nadal out, in the last 3 seasons, then this wouldn't be the problem it is.

Fedexex
09-23-2007, 08:25 AM
:clap2:

fmolinari2005
09-23-2007, 03:32 PM
You are one the bemoaning the luck of the Swiss. Fact is Federer created this problem with DC himself.

I am not seeing it in absolute terms. If he wants to keep his team in the WG, then he should play the 1st round ties and then the mission is done.

The other shit is irrelevant, if his sole goal is to keep Switzerland in the World Group, win the 1st round match and if he played against the Aussies, the Dutch and the Spanish with Nadal out, in the last 3 seasons, then this wouldn't be the problem it is.

It seems that this debate is going nowhere. Because regardless of what I write, you already have the conclusions set in your head. My original point on this is that Roger is sticking to his principles: that is trying to keep the Swiss team on the WG. He can do that either by playing 1st rounds, or by, if his teams loses the 1st round, playing the play offs. I am not debating what is easier or what should'd been done. One thing is thinking that it would be better playing the 1st round; another is not accepting the possibility that by playing the play off he is keeping his word too. That is one of the things I meant by you seeing things in absolute ways.

And, for the last time, if you are going to accuse me of something, read my posts. I wasnt bemoaning the luck of the swiss. The luck issue was brought up by another poster, and here is my reply to it:

Sorry. I dont get it. You say that with a little luck Switzerland could go far on the tournament: that is why I brought Brazil reaching semi-finals- because they were lucky enough to play a lot of rounds on clay. If they had played Czech Republic on carpet, maybe they wouldnt got to the semi-finals. That was my point: I agree with you that our team is "clay dependent". But my point is: luck alone dont make a DC champion.

Well. I meant that drawing the Czech republic isnt a "dream" draw. They could'd drawed other countries instead, that is what I meant. However, things are the way things are, and I think that saying "oh, poor switzerland, they drawed a tought team" is a cheap shot and sort of a cry baby thing to do. I just wrote that to say that the swiss team is dependent on luck not only to win the DC, as you suggested, but even to be at the WG.


There is a difference with what I wrote and "bemoaning the swiss luck". However, I doubt you will acknowledge that.

nobama
09-23-2007, 06:23 PM
Who plays better out of the team isn't necessarily who holds serve the most. In fact, their ability to hold is often dependant on how the partner moves at the net.I won't disagree with you but you know damn well if Federer had dumped a volley in the net on MP and dropped serve in the 4th and 5th set people here wouldn't be saying 'ah, but it's Allegro's fault too'. I didn't see the match. I don't know who exactly caused Allegro to drop serve. I'm basing my comments on what I read from those who saw the match, which was that Allegro was the weak link - started strong but after second set started missing 1st serves and making more errors.