Swiss Rant [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Swiss Rant

tennis2tennis
09-22-2007, 12:16 PM
Take Roger out of the equation and we're pretty much f@#ked! Tennis.com's James Martin wrote

When he was younger, Federer played quite a bit of Davis Cup (he’s competed in 41 Davis Cup singles and doubles matches in his career), but hasn’t played much lately. At one point, he voiced concerns about the drain of having to carry his team. “I need a bit of help with the team and the fans and everything. I’ve done it a number of times to win three points.”

That may have been the case a few years ago. Not now, not with teammate Stanislas Wawrinka. He’s a talented, hard-hitting kid, kind of like a Version 2.0 of Marat Safin, who can more than hold his own. Swiss Marco Chiudinelli has had promising DC results, too.

Clearly, if these guys banded together, Switzerland wouldn’t just be a factor in the Davis Cup – it’d be one of the favorites to win it all.


A load of bullshit we're a one man band and Roger knows it, the fact that the team almost always ends up in the relegation matches without roger in the early stages illustrates this!

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 12:21 PM
Federer should just play the 1st round matches and then he won't have to worry about relegation play offs.

tennis2tennis
09-22-2007, 12:31 PM
Federer should just play the 1st round matches and then he won't have to worry about relegation play offs.


It's not about Roger its about the quality of swiss tennis, he carries the team and that's just wrong, it exposes the weakness of swiss tennis, Wawrinka has to learn to be more consistent he's 22 years old, now is the time for him to be raising his game...


if we win the Davis Cup with roger winning all the matches belive me I'll be one swiss who won't be celebrating, its a gloss ofer the real state of our national tennis!

Forehander
09-22-2007, 12:35 PM
they'll do good. Federer secures all the points and Federer/allegro are good doubles team

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 12:36 PM
It's not about Roger its about the quality of swiss tennis, he carries the team and that's just wrong, it exposes the weakness of swiss tennis, Wawrinka has to learn to be more consistent he's 22 years old, now is the time for him to be raising his game...


if we win the Davis Cup with roger winning all the matches belive me I'll be one swiss who won't be celebrating, its a gloss ofer the real state of our national tennis!

Wawrinka is good enough as a number 2, and if it so bad, then Federer shouldn't bother. He is in a position to pick and choose his ties. Like I said the Netherlands and Australia, he could have played that and then kept them in the World Group.

Then after Feb, he doesn't have to bother with it.

adee-gee
09-22-2007, 12:37 PM
Wawrinka is a potential top 20 player, he's no mug.

What do Switzerland expect, to have the #1 and #2 players in the world?

Eden
09-22-2007, 12:49 PM
It's not about Roger its about the quality of swiss tennis, he carries the team and that's just wrong, it exposes the weakness of swiss tennis, Wawrinka has to learn to be more consistent he's 22 years old, now is the time for him to be raising his game...


Lets wait and see how Stan does against Stepanek. It's no shame to lose to Berdych who plays at home.

Of course Roger carries the team, we had the same in Germany with Becker. He had to win the 2 points and get the job done in the doubles together with Eric Jelen.

laure xxx
09-22-2007, 01:07 PM
Roger carries the team. What's new? And who cares? We're never going to win and we might be relegated from the World Group next year when Roger doesn't play. 2008 will probably be the most important year of Roger's career for many reasons, and they don't include Davis Cup.

t0x
09-22-2007, 07:05 PM
Wawrinka is actually a solid #2. The Swiss just got bad luck with this draw... I mean this could easily be one of the semis going on!

fmolinari2005
09-22-2007, 07:19 PM
Federer should just play the 1st round matches and then he won't have to worry about relegation play offs.


And then, this year, when Switzeraland faced the US team, people would say "Federer doesnt care about the DC, because he could had defeated Blake/ Roddick and Brians, taking Switzerland to the next round".

And if Roger doesnt play at all people would say: he really doesnt care, because if he played, his team would still be at the World Group.

But I Fed plays and loses, people will say: he tanked the match, because there is no way he could'd lost it.

And if he carries the Swiss team to the title, then people would say: "who cares, it is a weak era" or "it is not fair Switzerland winning because of only one player".

Action Jackson
09-22-2007, 07:33 PM
And then, this year, when Switzeraland faced the US team, people would say "Federer doesnt care about the DC, because he could had defeated Blake/ Roddick and Brians, taking Switzerland to the next round".

And if Roger doesnt play at all people would say: he really doesnt care, because if he played, his team would still be at the World Group.

But I Fed plays and loses, people will say: he tanked the match, because there is no way he could'd lost it.

And if he carries the Swiss team to the title, then people would say: "who cares, it is a weak era" or "it is not fair Switzerland winning because of only one player".

Cry me a river.

Tanking for his country, you think Fed would do that, then again he doesn't play DC often enough to tank it.

You are obsessed with how people perceive Federer. He can take the kudos, but at the same time he has take the criticism when warranted and his attitude to DC deserves to be criticised.

fmolinari2005
09-22-2007, 08:20 PM
Cry me a river.

Tanking for his country, you think Fed would do that, then again he doesn't play DC often enough to tank it.

You are obsessed with how people perceive Federer. He can take the kudos, but at the same time he has take the criticism when warranted and his attitude to DC deserves to be criticised.

If I am obsessed if how people perceive Roger, you are on a mission to twist my words.

I dont think Roger would tank the match. I am saying that some tard would accuse Roger of doing that, if Roger played, for example, the second round and loses it, just to prove their point that Roger doesnt care about the DC. The second Roger started with his half-time deal with the DC, regardless of how much or when he plays, people will find a way to criticize him.

If you read my posts about this thing, in most of them I wrote that Roger's half deal with the DC thing is selfish. Even if he has his reasons, it is selfish. If you are bothering on replying to my posts, make sure you read them properly. I never said his attitude towards the DC is criticism free. But one thing is fair criticism, another one is this witch hunt.

Mechlan
09-22-2007, 08:36 PM
A load of bullshit we're a one man band and Roger knows it, the fact that the team almost always ends up in the relegation matches without roger in the early stages illustrates this!

I've always thought it a bit of a farce that one man can basically win the Davis Cup, but that's the nature of the competition. The fact is, Switzerland with Roger is a very tough team for anybody to beat. Wawrinka is young, still improving, and quite a talented player. How many teams have multiple top-50 players and almost a guaranteed 2 points regardless of opponent or surface? If Roger plays, they are a very tough team to beat; it doesn't matter that they don't have the depth of Argentina or Russia.

FedFan_2007
09-22-2007, 08:38 PM
Davis Cup is irrelevant. Only slams matter.

FedFan_2007
09-22-2007, 08:39 PM
If anything Spain should have the best DC team. Think about it - Nadal, Ferrer, Moya.

Snowwy
09-22-2007, 09:17 PM
If anything Spain should have the best DC team. Think about it - Nadal, Ferrer, Moya.

Going by that logic, the US should be better, Roddick Blake, 2 top tens and the top doubles team.

FedFan_2007
09-22-2007, 09:33 PM
US team sucks because Blake sucks. Oh Roddick sucks too. Bryan Brothers blow major American chunks too.

Snowwy
09-22-2007, 09:39 PM
US team sucks because Blake sucks. Oh Roddick sucks too. Bryan Brothers blow major American chunks too.

But Ferrer and Moya, who are both ranked lower than Roddick and Blake are better?

FedFan_2007
09-22-2007, 09:42 PM
Of course Ferrer and Moya are better. They are true Spanish Spartans. They are warriors.

Snowwy
09-22-2007, 09:47 PM
Of course Ferrer and Moya are better. They are true Spanish Spartans. They are warriors.

And yet, these Spartans have only beaten Roddick and Blake twice since the beginning of 2006, Ferrer over Roddick both times. I thought Spartans won, not lost but maybe Im wrong.

dj_mercury
09-22-2007, 10:06 PM
Unless Wawrinka doesn't play a great match tomorrow, we are going to be relegated in the B group. As for the Federer issue, I think he has to decide whether to play or not in one year and not just show up in the relegation match as a rescue hero. The Swiss team to be a top contender needs also to have a better double, Allegro is too incosistent and has the poor pressure role to to be playing along side a player like Federer, while Roger whatever everyone thinks is not a top10 double player in my opinion.

nobama
09-22-2007, 10:11 PM
Unless Wawrinka doesn't play a great match tomorrow, we are going to be relegated in the B group. As for the Federer issue, I think he has to decide whether to play or not in one year and not just show up in the relegation match as a rescue hero. The Swiss team to be a top contender needs also to have a better double, Allegro is too incosistent and has the poor pressure role to to be playing along side a player like Federer, while Roger whatever everyone thinks is not a top10 double player in my opinion.Allegro is too inconsistent and Wawrinka is young and hasn't proven himself yet. His biggest win was against Andy Murray at home on clay.

RagingLamb
09-22-2007, 10:22 PM
i remember a time when swiss tennis was barely on the map...so it's progressing nicely.

dj_mercury
09-22-2007, 10:34 PM
Maybe you forget that Hlasek and Rosset reached the DC final, when Federer was probably only known by the national talent scouts.

rwn
09-23-2007, 12:20 AM
Federer should just play the 1st round matches and then he won't have to worry about relegation play offs.

You, and a lot of other people, would also criticize him if he would play first round and not the second round. But I doubt the criticism matters to him. It's about winning the slams and I agree with him. If you can win 3 or maybe even 4 of the slams why bother with the Davis Cup. It's meaningless compared to the slams.

laure xxx
09-23-2007, 02:16 AM
Of course Ferrer and Moya are better. They are true Spanish Spartans. They are warriors.

:speakles: :help:

FedFan_2007
09-23-2007, 08:07 AM
You, and a lot of other people, would also criticize him if he would play first round and not the second round. But I doubt the criticism matters to him. It's about winning the slams and I agree with him. If you can win 3 or maybe even 4 of the slams why bother with the Davis Cup. It's meaningless compared to the slams.

It's far more important for Swiss tennis to have the #1 ranked player AND winning grand slams then winning the Davis Cup. Hopefully Fed/Wawrinka get the job done by 2010 anyways. :D

FedFan_2007
09-23-2007, 08:08 AM
:speakles: :help:

Do you have evidence to the contrary? Moya has the whippy forehand. :wavey:

yanchr
09-23-2007, 08:44 AM
You, and a lot of other people, would also criticize him if he would play first round and not the second round. But I doubt the criticism matters to him. It's about winning the slams and I agree with him. If you can win 3 or maybe even 4 of the slams why bother with the Davis Cup. It's meaningless compared to the slams.
Interestingly, those who criticized him are often not Swiss. They want him to do exactly what they expect him and what they think he "should", which is not even their business. Funny. If I were Swiss, I'd criticize him. But I'm not. I as a fan only care about his health and how many slams he wins. DC and even Olympics are not my concern at all.

rwn
09-23-2007, 08:57 AM
Interestingly, those who criticized him are often not Swiss. They want him to do exactly what they expect him and what they think he "should", which is not even their business. Funny. If I were Swiss, I'd criticize him. But I'm not. I as a fan only care about his health and how many slams he wins. DC and even Olympics are not my concern at all.

I'm convinced that they would do exactly the same if they were in Federer's shoes. Why jeopardize your chances for winning slams if your teammates aren't even strong enough to win the early rounds in the Davis Cup ?

Action Jackson
09-23-2007, 09:07 AM
You, and a lot of other people, would also criticize him if he would play first round and not the second round. But I doubt the criticism matters to him. It's about winning the slams and I agree with him. If you can win 3 or maybe even 4 of the slams why bother with the Davis Cup. It's meaningless compared to the slams.

Wrong again.

If he wants to keep his team in the World Group as his sole goal for Davis Cup, then he plays the 1st round and with the ties they had in the past 3 1st rounders were very winnable with Federer playing, then the objective for Davis Cup is completed.

Typical response, but yes I forgot there haven't been multi Slam winners win the Davis Cup as well, but they don't matter cause they aren't Federer.

Federer wins a lot of his singles matches playing at 50 percent of his capabilities.

Action Jackson
09-23-2007, 09:11 AM
If I am obsessed if how people perceive Roger, you are on a mission to twist my words.

I dont think Roger would tank the match. I am saying that some tard would accuse Roger of doing that, if Roger played, for example, the second round and loses it, just to prove their point that Roger doesnt care about the DC. The second Roger started with his half-time deal with the DC, regardless of how much or when he plays, people will find a way to criticize him.

If you read my posts about this thing, in most of them I wrote that Roger's half deal with the DC thing is selfish. Even if he has his reasons, it is selfish. If you are bothering on replying to my posts, make sure you read them properly. I never said his attitude towards the DC is criticism free. But one thing is fair criticism, another one is this witch hunt.

Federer hasn't tanked a DC singles match, even the ones he has lost and those were a while ago and why is he going to start doing that now. Bringing up the thought alone is ludicrous.

He deserves to be criticised for his attitude to DC. If he wants to concentrate on his own career, then that's his choice, but if they relegated then it would be a good thing, though not for Allegro, Wawrinka and Chiudinelli.

tennis2tennis
09-23-2007, 09:41 AM
my whole rant wasn't a moan about roger, its about the fact that having a great palyer among so many mediocare players tends to gloss over the state of the country...McEnore, Borg, Samprass et al never had to deal with the pressure that Roger has to deal with 'cause their DC teams could hold thier own.....I'm swiss so I'm wanting my team to play well, not JUST A SINGLE PLAYER that's all...


ps..Americans stop moaning i LOVE YOUR DC team, can we have the bryan brothers please,:) at least that way roger can put all his concentration in the singles (seeing how he has to carry the team)..

I forgot to add I completely agree with the poster who made fun of the DC format...trying to convert a singular sport into a team sport is a bit redundant when technically one player can win everything...

FedFan_2007
09-23-2007, 09:43 AM
You have to go back literally 4 years to find the last singles DC match Fed lost:

AUS v. SUI WG SF, Melbourne, Australia
DC, 19-Sep-03, O, Hard , Draw: 6
RR Hewitt, Lleyton (AUS)
7-5 6-2 6-7(4) 5-7 1-6

In fact a total of 6 losses in his entire career 5 of which 1998-2002.

Allure
09-23-2007, 09:45 AM
In Fantastic Federer, the author insinuated that Federer's loss of the Peter Carter Cup affected his enthusiasm for DC. I don't know how true that is though.

rwn
09-23-2007, 09:48 AM
Wrong again.

If he wants to keep his team in the World Group as his sole goal for Davis Cup, then he plays the 1st round and with the ties they had in the past 3 1st rounders were very winnable with Federer playing, then the objective for Davis Cup is completed.

There is a better chance you get an "easy" opponent in the play off matches and it doesn't interfere with the slams, so this was a logical choice from Federer. The match against Spain was winnable because Nadal withdrew during the Davis Cup, not before. Federer is a great tennis player, but he isn't a psychic.[/QUOTE]


Typical response, but yes I forgot there haven't been multi Slam winners win the Davis Cup as well, but they don't matter cause they aren't Federer.

Maybe they have robbed themselves from winning more slams by playing the Davis Cup. It was their individual choice like Federer has made his. And I happen to agree with Federer's choice. Anyway, most of these Slam winners had a better team. The Swiss don't even have a great doubles player.

Federer wins a lot of his singles matches playing at 50 percent of his capabilities.

How do you know that ? Things always look so easy from the outside.

Action Jackson
09-23-2007, 09:51 AM
my whole rant wasn't a moan about roger, its about the fact that having a great palyer among so many mediocare players tends to gloss over the state of the country...McEnore, Borg, Samprass et al never had to deal with the pressure that Roger has to deal with 'cause their DC teams could hold thier own.....I'm swiss so I'm wanting my team to play well, not JUST A SINGLE PLAYER that's all...

Borg carried Swedish tennis until his retirement. Borg won the Davis Cup for Sweden virtually single handedly, so that example doesn't wash and McEnroe willingly carried the hopes of the US team, something Connors wouldn't do and the fact the US had depth them

Borg had issues with the Swedish Tennis Federation, that was his reason for stopping his participation in 1980.

I forgot to add I completely agree with the poster who made fun of the DC format...trying to convert a singular sport into a team sport is a bit redundant when technically one player can win everything...

Not surprised you don't get it. Hey lets take out some of Brazil's best footballers out of their team, cause they are too good,

Boohoo.

Action Jackson
09-23-2007, 09:57 AM
There is a better chance you get an "easy" opponent in the play off matches and it doesn't interfere with the slams, so this was a logical choice from Federer. The match against Spain was winnable because Nadal withdrew during the Davis Cup, not before. Federer is a great tennis player, but he isn't a psychic.

The QFs are the only time where there could be a problem with scheduling. The first round, the semis and the final don't interfere with Slams.

Federer can't beat Nadal on a very fast carpet court, come on now don't feed this bullshit.

Maybe they have robbed themselves from winning more slams by playing the Davis Cup. It was their individual choice like Federer has made his. And I happen to agree with Federer's choice. Anyway, most of these Slam winners had a better team. The Swiss don't even have a great doubles player.

Didn't rob McEnroe, Becker, Wilander, Edberg any more Slams than they deserved. The tour schedule was a lot worse in those days.

Becker, Borg and Ljubo carried their team to DC triumphs, but since you probably only watch Federer. I am not surprised that you missed that.

How do you know that ? Things always look so easy from the outside

Federer hasn't had to play that well to win tournaments, let alone matches. Cause his level is that much higher, this is obvious.

Eden
09-23-2007, 10:23 AM
Interestingly, those who criticized him are often not Swiss. They want him to do exactly what they expect him and what they think he "should", which is not even their business. Funny. If I were Swiss, I'd criticize him. But I'm not. I as a fan only care about his health and how many slams he wins. DC and even Olympics are not my concern at all.

It's not important what other people say about Rogers decision whether to play DC or not. He doesn't have to account for anyone and he doesn't owe the Swiss tennis federation to play in the competition. He has done enough for the Swiss tennis in the past years. His teammates and the federation have accepted his decision not to play the first rounds, although they of course hoped that he would play.

tennis2tennis
09-23-2007, 07:41 PM
SUI 2 - CZECH 3 I rest my case

HAVING 2 VERY GOOD PLAYERS (RADEK & BERDYCH) IS BETTER THAN HAVING 1 EXCELLENT PLAYER

THE SWISS TENNIS FEDERATION NEEDS TO GET ITS FINGERS OUT AND STOP CLOSING TENNIS GROUNDS IN GENEVA AND BASEL, :mad: :mad:

Mechlan
09-23-2007, 08:22 PM
SUI 2 - CZECH 3 I rest my case

HAVING 2 VERY GOOD PLAYERS (RADEK & BERDYCH) IS BETTER THAN HAVING 1 EXCELLENT PLAYER

THE SWISS TENNIS FEDERATION NEEDS TO GET ITS FINGERS OUT AND STOP CLOSING TENNIS GROUNDS IN GENEVA AND BASEL, :mad: :mad:

Step back and get some perspective. Stepanek and Berdych were both playing top-10 tennis at home on the most favorable surface against the Swiss and your one-man team was a point away from winning the tie. And Stan was always going to be the underdog in these conditions, stop demeaning his efforts.

tennis2tennis
09-23-2007, 08:35 PM
Step back and get some perspective. Stepanek and Berdych were both playing top-10 tennis at home on the most favorable surface against the Swiss and your one-man team was a point away from winning the tie. And Stan was always going to be the underdog in these conditions, stop demeaning his efforts.

I'm not deamining his efforts and its not about stan or roger but i'm also not glossing over the reality of our tennis....you've reiterated my point about stepanek and berdych when is roger gonna get someone to take the pressure of him? how long will our national hoped rest on one shoulder.....its just an honest analysis of our tennis

Action Jackson
09-23-2007, 08:42 PM
I'm not deamining his efforts and its not about stan or roger but i'm also not glossing over the reality of our tennis....you've reiterated my point about stepanek and berdych when is roger gonna get someone to take the pressure of him? how long will our national hoped rest on one shoulder.....its just an honest analysis of our tennis

Think about it Federer isn't going to play next year, so he doesn't have to worry about it. They got the toughest team in the playoffs out of all the teams they could have got it.

Keep overreacting, it's funny to read.

fmolinari2005
09-23-2007, 09:17 PM
Federer hasn't tanked a DC singles match, even the ones he has lost and those were a while ago and why is he going to start doing that now. Bringing up the thought alone is ludicrous.


How many ludicrous things people bring up to bash a particular player here on MTF?! (not talking about you, btw)


He deserves to be criticised for his attitude to DC. If he wants to concentrate on his own career, then that's his choice, but if they relegated then it would be a good thing, though not for Allegro, Wawrinka and Chiudinelli.

As I wrote tons of times, yes, Roger deserves the criticism. Stan shouldnt take the blame alone, Roger has his share of it too. However, all I am saying that things arent as black and white as you like to picture. I wont go further with this, because I'd explained this a lot of times already.

dj_mercury
09-23-2007, 09:29 PM
HAVING 2 VERY GOOD PLAYERS (RADEK & BERDYCH) IS BETTER THAN HAVING 1 EXCELLENT PLAYER
yeah, let's get back the time when we had the chance to field Rosset and Hlasek and reach the DC final....

Do you know that you live in a little country like Switzerland?! What are you going to do in 10 years when Federer will step down and we won't likely have anyone able to replace him?! Is already incredible to have a countryplayer of this quality and you fault the federation for not having two of them?! Get real. :wavey:

star
09-23-2007, 10:06 PM
It's not about Roger its about the quality of swiss tennis, he carries the team and that's just wrong,



Boris Becker carried the German team at one time. McEnroe single handedly dug the U.S. out of a deep hole in Davis Cup. Was the U.S. even in the World Group when JMac took over? It happens sometimes that there is only one player in a nation that carries his team. I think Switzerland is pretty fortunate to have the players it has. No reason to be cryng in your beer.

adee-gee
09-23-2007, 10:19 PM
SUI 2 - CZECH 3 I rest my case

HAVING 2 VERY GOOD PLAYERS (RADEK & BERDYCH) IS BETTER THAN HAVING 1 EXCELLENT PLAYER

THE SWISS TENNIS FEDERATION NEEDS TO GET ITS FINGERS OUT AND STOP CLOSING TENNIS GROUNDS IN GENEVA AND BASEL, :mad: :mad:

Are you for real?

Switzerland is a very small country, the fact they are as strong as they are is impressive. I don't know what you're expecting, to have 3 top 10 players? The fact is, you have Federer who is #1 and Wawrinka who in my eyes should and possibly could get into the top 20 next year. I'd glady have him in the Britain team if you guys don't want him, he's good for DC because he's a solid player on all surfaces. Allegro is also a reasonable doubles player. This is not including WTA where you have the likes of Hingis and Schnyder as well.

Djokovic is in a similar position and you don't see him bitching the whole time. Perhaps you should ask the likes of Baghdatis, Nieminen and Gulbis what it's really like to carry the country.

Sunset of Age
09-23-2007, 11:10 PM
SUI 2 - CZECH 3 I rest my case

HAVING 2 VERY GOOD PLAYERS (RADEK & BERDYCH) IS BETTER THAN HAVING 1 EXCELLENT PLAYER

THE SWISS TENNIS FEDERATION NEEDS TO GET ITS FINGERS OUT AND STOP CLOSING TENNIS GROUNDS IN GENEVA AND BASEL, :mad: :mad:

I can surely understand your disappointment... :hug: - but aren't you overacting for a bit here?

Next year, the Swiss team will have to play MY country. A little country, but despite having about 700.000 recreational players, with only ONE player in the entire ATP top-100 - a fact that even got into the papers here when he achieved that milestone... :lol:

So, be happy with your very reasonable players - at least they DO matter!

tennis2tennis
09-24-2007, 07:57 AM
Are you for real?

Switzerland is a very small country, .


so what so do Serbia?

CooCooCachoo
09-24-2007, 08:05 AM
It's not about Roger its about the quality of swiss tennis, he carries the team and that's just wrong, it exposes the weakness of swiss tennis, Wawrinka has to learn to be more consistent he's 22 years old, now is the time for him to be raising his game...


if we win the Davis Cup with roger winning all the matches belive me I'll be one swiss who won't be celebrating, its a gloss ofer the real state of our national tennis!

With Wawrinka you have a very talented guy on board.

With Allegro you have a good doubles player. With Scherrer you have a good back-up in doubles.

With Chiudinelli you have someone who is passionate, talented and, if not injured, a great addition to the team.

With Lammer, Bastl, Bohli, Kratochvil you have very dangerous players.

With Roshardt, you have someone for the future.

What sorry state of Swiss tennis? This Swiss team is capable of winning the Davis Cup. But, yes, they are also capable of losing.

Action Jackson
09-24-2007, 08:44 AM
How many ludicrous things people bring up to bash a particular player here on MTF?! (not talking about you, btw)

This matters exactly in what context.

As I wrote tons of times, yes, Roger deserves the criticism. Stan shouldnt take the blame alone, Roger has his share of it too. However, all I am saying that things arent as black and white as you like to picture. I wont go further with this, because I'd explained this a lot of times already.

Stan is the one who is going to take the blame and that's just wrong.

Action Jackson
09-24-2007, 08:48 AM
so what so do Serbia?

Stop kidding yourself. Do you expect 10 Swiss players in the top 50 or something?

Borg carried Sweden and won a DC virtually on his own and the same for Ljubicic. Djokovic, Baghdatis, Nieminen, Horna, Lee are the ones who have to carry their nations, but they do it and don't bitch about it.

tennis2tennis
09-24-2007, 12:53 PM
With Wawrinka you have a very talented guy on board.

With Allegro you have a good doubles player. With Scherrer you have a good back-up in doubles.

With Chiudinelli you have someone who is passionate, talented and, if not injured, a great addition to the team.

With Lammer, Bastl, Bohli, Kratochvil you have very dangerous players.

With Roshardt, you have someone for the future.

What sorry state of Swiss tennis? This Swiss team is capable of winning the Davis Cup. But, yes, they are also capable of losing.

ok you've just compiled a list of has-beens and never beens...and never-will bees

fmolinari2005
09-24-2007, 01:04 PM
This matters exactly in what context.

This matter as much as MTF matters in general.



Stan is the one who is going to take the blame and that's just wrong.

Which we agree. Lets keep repeating that until we reach an agreement. :lol: :lol:

fmolinari2005
09-24-2007, 01:07 PM
Stop kidding yourself. Do you expect 10 Swiss players in the top 50 or something?

Borg carried Sweden and won a DC virtually on his own and the same for Ljubicic. Djokovic, Baghdatis, Nieminen, Horna, Lee are the ones who have to carry their nations, but they do it and don't bitch about it.

You are confusing Federer with tennis fans.

Action Jackson
09-24-2007, 01:09 PM
You are confusing Federer with tennis fans.

As I said we know the solution to prevent relegation, but no point in pointing that out again.

fmolinari2005
09-24-2007, 01:16 PM
As I said we know the solution to prevent relegation, but no point in pointing that out again.

I dont know. I think we could keep on exchanging messages until one of us suffers a psychotic meltdown. ;)

(I must say that with my new medication I fear you might break down sooner. There is quite sometime that the evil tennis playing gnomes dont bother me anymore :lol: )

Action Jackson
09-24-2007, 01:19 PM
I dont know. I think we could keep on exchanging messages until one of us suffers a psychotic meltdown. ;)

(I must say that with my new medication I fear you might break down sooner. There is quite sometime that the evil tennis playing gnomes dont bother me anymore :lol: )

He won't play next year, but it looks the Kryptonite was too much for Federer this time around.

fmolinari2005
09-24-2007, 01:25 PM
He won't play next year, but it looks the Kryptonite was too much for Federer this time around.

I dont agree. With Federer's ability to change earth's core rotation, he might turn back time and win the tie against Spain this year. If that is not the case, he can always crap some golden bars and bribe the guy responsible for the DC tournament.

Peoples
09-24-2007, 07:12 PM
With Wawrinka you have a very talented guy on board.

With Allegro you have a good doubles player. With Scherrer you have a good back-up in doubles.

With Chiudinelli you have someone who is passionate, talented and, if not injured, a great addition to the team.

With Lammer, Bastl, Bohli, Kratochvil you have very dangerous players.

With Roshardt, you have someone for the future.

What sorry state of Swiss tennis? This Swiss team is capable of winning the Davis Cup. But, yes, they are also capable of losing.
It's simple. You're both wrong.

Swiss tennis is in a sorry state? bullshit.. They have plenty of potential players. But of course there could always be more.

Swiss team is capable of winning the Davis Cup? Currently? bullshit.. with your "very dangerous players" you forget their rankings. While Wawrinka may have an outside chance vs top players, others have no chance.

stebs
09-24-2007, 07:16 PM
It's simple. You're both wrong.

Swiss tennis is in a sorry state? bullshit.. They have plenty of potential players. But of course there could always be more.

Swiss team is capable of winning the Davis Cup? Currently? bullshit.. with your "very dangerous players" you forget their rankings. While Wawrinka may have an outside chance vs top players, others have no chance.

Sorry state is indeed total bullshit.

Capable of winning it all? I'd say so, sure.

They get Federer playing consistently, one or two big wins from WaWa, one or two good doubles wins and a little bit of luck and it can happen for sure.

Remember, Federer is almost a lock to beat all but Nadal and Djokovic everywhere and WaWa can win one point against some teams on some surfaces and the doubles team is capable of an upset against anyone in the world IMO and yes they'd need some luck but is it bullshit? I don't think so.

Peoples
09-24-2007, 07:19 PM
Sorry state is indeed total bullshit.

Capable of winning it all? I'd say so, sure.

They get Federer playing consistently, one or two big wins from WaWa, one or two good doubles wins and a little bit of luck and it can happen for sure.

Remember, Federer is almost a lock to beat all but Nadal and Djokovic everywhere and WaWa can win one point against some teams on some surfaces and the doubles team is capable of an upset against anyone in the world IMO and yes they'd need some luck but is it bullshit? I don't think so.
I wasn't talking about theoretical chances. Problem is, Federer isn't going to participate in all DC matches which makes this an impossibility.

nobama
09-24-2007, 11:33 PM
Sorry state is indeed total bullshit.

Capable of winning it all? I'd say so, sure.

They get Federer playing consistently, one or two big wins from WaWa, one or two good doubles wins and a little bit of luck and it can happen for sure.

Remember, Federer is almost a lock to beat all but Nadal and Djokovic everywhere and WaWa can win one point against some teams on some surfaces and the doubles team is capable of an upset against anyone in the world IMO and yes they'd need some luck but is it bullshit? I don't think so.
Sorry but I don't see a big win coming from WaWa any time soon. Of course anything can happen if Fed commits to every tie...

rocketassist
09-24-2007, 11:40 PM
Swiss team if Federer plays all ties can definitely win DC. Two rubbers are then gimmes unless it's Spain away.

Wawrinka is a good shotmaker and plays well at home. Fed/Allegro as a doubles pair are also very good.

It's Roger's fault they're out of the WG though, if he'd committed to play a Spain with no Nadal then they wouldn't be in this situation.

adee-gee
09-25-2007, 12:00 AM
so what so do Serbia?
Serbia are in no better a position than Switzerland at the moment. Djokovic pretty much has to win all 3 matches against most good nations, as does Federer. Federer is more likely to do this than Djokovic and Wawrinka has a better chance of claiming rubbers than Tipsarevic so I'd say Switzerland are in a stronger position. Zimonjic is a better doubles player than Allegro but Federer is a better doubles player than Djokovic.

The only advantage Serbia have is that their best player gives a shit about Davis Cup.

Eden
09-25-2007, 10:14 PM
It's Roger's fault they're out of the WG though, if he'd committed to play a Spain with no Nadal then they wouldn't be in this situation.

We will never know the outcome of the DC encounter if Roger had committed. Switzerland still needed to get 3 matches won.

nobama
09-25-2007, 11:44 PM
We will never know the outcome of the DC encounter if Roger had committed. Switzerland still needed to get 3 matches won.Seems team Switzerland is handling being kicked out of the WG quite well. ;)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/sweetroger/Coupe%20Davis%202007/Prague/IMG_1030.jpg

R.Federer
09-26-2007, 12:22 AM
The only advantage Serbia have is that their best player gives a shit about Davis Cup.

Ah, easy to say early in the career. Federer gave many shits about DC early on. But he put himself in a position where he had huge selfish gains to make and sacrificed DC for that; djokovic might never be in that position, so can't really compare :shrug:

adee-gee
09-26-2007, 12:55 AM
Ah, easy to say early in the career. Federer gave many shits about DC early on. But he put himself in a position where he had huge selfish gains to make and sacrificed DC for that; djokovic might never be in that position, so can't really compare :shrug:
If I was Federer, Davis Cup would be one my main goals. There should be no better feeling than winning the biggest team tournament for your country. In singles, he's representing himself, not Switzerland.

That's why I'm also surprised very few tennis players care about the Olympics. I'd have thought it would be huge to win a gold medal while representing your country.

Sunset of Age
09-26-2007, 03:14 AM
Seems team Switzerland is handling being kicked out of the WG quite well. ;)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/sweetroger/Coupe%20Davis%202007/Prague/IMG_1030.jpg

And it doesn't really surprise me at all, to be honest. :angel:

laure xxx
09-26-2007, 05:25 AM
Seems team Switzerland is handling being kicked out of the WG quite well. ;)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/sweetroger/Coupe%20Davis%202007/Prague/IMG_1030.jpg

Federer's delighted he doesn't have to play for a while.

nobama
09-26-2007, 11:59 AM
And it doesn't really surprise me at all, to be honest. :angel:check this out
http://www.tinyurl.com/2ey4ho

rwn
09-26-2007, 12:03 PM
If I was Federer, Davis Cup would be one my main goals. There should be no better feeling than winning the biggest team tournament for your country. In singles, he's representing himself, not Switzerland.

That's why I'm also surprised very few tennis players care about the Olympics. I'd have thought it would be huge to win a gold medal while representing your country.

I've heard that Nadal loves playing for his country more than anything else. That's why he withdrew from the Davis Cup while playing in Miami. You've got to love his honesty about this.

Puschkin
09-26-2007, 12:12 PM
If I was Federer, Davis Cup would be one my main goals.

But you aren't :p.

Why is it so dicfficult to grasp that not everyone is crazy about flags and national anthems?

Action Jackson
09-26-2007, 12:15 PM
But you aren't :p.

Why is it so dicfficult to grasp that not everyone is crazy about flags and national anthems?

Why is it so difficult to understand that all people who enjoy Davis Cup aren't nationalistic, racist, xenophobic individuals?

Truc
09-26-2007, 12:25 PM
Why is it so dicfficult to grasp that not everyone is crazy about flags and national anthems?I doubt that's the real issue for Fed with the Davis Cup, don't you remember the Olympics? He looked so proud to hold the Swiss flag during the opening ceremony and seemed very eager to represent his country.

Puschkin
09-26-2007, 12:25 PM
Why is it so difficult to understand that all people who enjoy Davis Cup aren't nationalistic, racist, xenophobic individuals?

We have been through this at length. My response was to a comment, why Roger federer might not make DC a priority.

I doubt that's the real issue with Fed, don't you remember the Olympics? He looked so proud to hold the Swiss flag and seemed very eager to represent his country.

but not necessarily for the price of sacrificing his individual career???

Action Jackson
09-26-2007, 12:28 PM
We have been through this at length. My response was to a comment, why Roger federer might not make DC a priority.

Federer has his own reasons for making his choices, but why mention the nationalist fact then?

adee-gee
09-26-2007, 12:29 PM
But you aren't :p.

Why is it so dicfficult to grasp that not everyone is crazy about flags and national anthems?
Thank god for that.

Who said it was a difficult concept to grasp?

adee-gee
09-26-2007, 12:30 PM
I've heard that Nadal loves playing for his country more than anything else. That's why he withdrew from the Davis Cup while playing in Miami. You've got to love his honesty about this.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/12/06/davis_cup_wideweb__430x276.jpg

Puschkin
09-26-2007, 12:30 PM
Thank god for that.

Are you sure? ;)

adee-gee
09-26-2007, 12:36 PM
Are you sure? ;)

I'd take his tennis ability for sure, but not even all the money he's earned plus all the compliments would be enough for me to date Mirka ;)

rosamunda
09-26-2007, 01:36 PM
I'd take his tennis ability for sure, but not even all the money he's earned plus all the compliments would be enough for me to date Mirka ;)

Are you sure?.....or is that like asking me to try and stomach fancying Andy Murray?:p

nobama
09-26-2007, 01:41 PM
I've heard that Nadal loves playing for his country more than anything else. That's why he withdrew from the Davis Cup while playing in Miami. You've got to love his honesty about this.
Well I guess since he's already been part of a winning DC team his part-time commitment is OK. :shrug:

adee-gee
09-26-2007, 01:53 PM
Well I guess since he's already been part of a winning DC team his part-time commitment is OK. :shrug:

I think even you can look at this reasonably and see that Nadal has struggled with injuries a lot more than Federer has and his caution about switching surfaces suddenly is understandable. I'd like to see him play more to be honest, and the Miami incident was disappointing and I won't defend him for that, but I don't blame him for being careful.

Action Jackson
09-26-2007, 01:55 PM
Federer lacks rhythm on the can can.

bokehlicious
09-26-2007, 03:14 PM
I think even you can look at this reasonably and see that Nadal has struggled with injuries a lot more than Federer has and his caution about switching surfaces suddenly is understandable. I'd like to see him play more to be honest, and the Miami incident was disappointing and I won't defend him for that, but I don't blame him for being careful.

Like Nadal, Roger could easily find injury excuses to withdraw from DC, but he's just too honest for that... :angel: :p

fmolinari2005
09-26-2007, 04:23 PM
Federer has his own reasons for making his choices, but why mention the nationalist fact then?


Because Puschking was replying to this comment:

If I was Federer, Davis Cup would be one my main goals. There should be no better feeling than winning the biggest team tournament for your country. In singles, he's representing himself, not Switzerland.


And Puschkin never mentioned xenophobia, racism and didnt make any generalization in the post you quoted. You were the one blowing Puschkin's post out of proportion.

fmolinari2005
09-26-2007, 04:48 PM
I think even you can look at this reasonably and see that Nadal has struggled with injuries a lot more than Federer has and his caution about switching surfaces suddenly is understandable. I'd like to see him play more to be honest, and the Miami incident was disappointing and I won't defend him for that, but I don't blame him for being careful.

I will ask a question: why dont you blame Rafa for being careful about this switching surface issue related to the DC, but when Roger does the same you start raising questions about his DC commitment?!

I remember reading one interview, at 05, when Roger first pulled out of the 1st round of DC. He said that in 04 he had a really tough time adjusting to the time difference and the courts, playing for DC, after winning the AO/ other tournaments. It seems that before 04, he still didnt have the belief he could make finals of all big events. That changed after 04.

To me, the main criticism about Roger's commitment to the DC is he chosing playing Dubai instead. One can argue that he could not play there and play 1st round at DC. That is right indeed. However, I dont think it is only the money that plays a part in his decision; but the fact that he chose Dubai to be the place he usually gets ready for long sequences of matches (like IW/Miami?clay court season). So, maybe, playing Dubai is part of not only a money deal he has with those guys, but, also, something that plays right into his preparation for the 1st semester. He is already at Dubai practicing, so why not play the tournament as a "warm-up" event for the US early hard court season?!

Action Jackson
09-26-2007, 04:55 PM
Because Puschking was replying to this comment:

And Puschkin never mentioned xenophobia, racism and didnt make any generalization in the post you quoted. You were the one blowing Puschkin's post out of proportion.

You don't know the deal with Puschkin and myself when it comes this issue. She made a comment about people who enjoy Davis Cup as being dumb nationalists, which is a load of rubbish and she was told it was a stupid generalisation.

She said We have been through this at length. In other words, it's not something you need to jump into without knowing the facts.

There was no need to mention the nationalist factor in this at all, there wasn't then and there isn't now.

rwn
09-26-2007, 05:02 PM
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/12/06/davis_cup_wideweb__430x276.jpg

You're just as honest as your hero, I guess ;)

rwn
09-26-2007, 05:14 PM
Well I guess since he's already been part of a winning DC team his part-time commitment is OK. :shrug:

It's funny. Nadal hasn't played 1 minute in the Davis Cup this year and gets no criticism. Federer has played more Davis Cup matches in his career than almost any active player and he gets criticized all the time.:rolleyes:

EDIT: Nadal has played 17 ATP tournaments this year and 0 minutes in the Davis Cup.

marcRD
09-26-2007, 11:04 PM
I dont get why you guys feel the need to protect Federer all the time. Obviously he puts his personal commitments ahead of his teams commitments which is too bad. He now got punished for this now, he is human ofcourse and may feel weared out by having to do so much all the time. It would still be more logical to win the 1st round every year and then let the team play from there on.