Noam Okun: 'Too much noise is being made about women's tennis' [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Noam Okun: 'Too much noise is being made about women's tennis'

Lee
09-20-2007, 09:55 PM
Read this on WTAWorld.com

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/905570.html

The quote is from the end of the article

Except for the truly surprising success in the Davis Cup, men's tennis in Israel is in a deep recession. The players bounce around in the second 100 of the singles rankings and there are no young players tapped as future talent. The focus has been stolen by the women, which really upsets Okun.

"There is too much noise about women's tennis being made here," he says. "It is clear that we have a top-15 women's player. I am sure that if there were a top-15 men's player, they would not even be discussing Shahar.

"If Dudi was No. 50 in the world, they would be discussing him more and writing more about him than Peer. I don't have any desire to talk about women's tennis, because men's tennis is more attractive. It is easy to be successful in the women's, and you can't even compare the two. It is like soccer and women's soccer - there isn't even such a thing as women's soccer. They just invented a sport that didn't even exist.

"To play for an hour and earn the same amount of money that the men earn after we sweat for five hours is a joke and irrational."

Pretty sour grapes :o

Bad Religion
09-20-2007, 09:56 PM
I agree , Shahar Peer sucks

Albop
09-20-2007, 09:57 PM
:worship:

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 09:58 PM
Okun! :worship:

You have a shaky forehand but a great posture.

Chris 84
09-20-2007, 09:59 PM
The sexist bastard should really concentrate on improving his own rather mediocre game before mouthing off about things like that.

He sweats for 5 hours does he? How many 5 hour matches has Okun ever been involved in? :o

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 10:02 PM
How many decent matches have women been involved with?

Get a clue.

Or Levy
09-20-2007, 10:02 PM
What, little bastard! She was sitting right there in the crowd rooting for you today. Should have rooted for Gonzo, honestly.

I wonder what is up with him, I mean - this is very unusual for players in Israel (unless they play soccer for opposite teams) to talk like that about each other, especially when in opposite genders, there are so few of them, the community is so small, they share coaches and training facilities.

Very odd.

Plus, I think he is wrong - they would be talking about Shahar being a top 15 player regardless of the ranking of our men, she's only the second Israeli woman who had made it into the top 15, the hype is well justified.

Plus, he is an idiot, Shahar is the reason Tennis in Israel is generating interest again, it is definitly not thanks to him, or Dudi.

Albop
09-20-2007, 10:03 PM
The sexist bastard should really concentrate on improving his own rather mediocre game before mouthing off about things like that.

He sweats for 5 hours does he? How many 5 hour matches has Okun ever been involved in? :o

he talks of the mens in general

JMG
09-20-2007, 10:03 PM
:spit:

tangerine_dream
09-20-2007, 10:03 PM
Peer > Okun

Chris 84
09-20-2007, 10:03 PM
How many decent matches have women been involved with?

Get a clue.

Far more than Okun or Sela :kiss:

+alonso
09-20-2007, 10:03 PM
WOW!

I think He doesn't feel good about Shahar getting the attention she deserves
..., He's bitter 'cause seems like Womens tennis has achieved a lot more than mens tennis in Israel ... :shrug:

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 10:04 PM
He has all the right to complain. Women's tennis brings fluke interest, as it's not real tennis.

Chris 84
09-20-2007, 10:04 PM
he talks of the mens in general

He's also a :retard: in general....big deal :p

Albop
09-20-2007, 10:04 PM
Peer > Okun

mens tennis > womens tennis

is simple

Stensland
09-20-2007, 10:04 PM
nice one noam! :)

completely agree. womens tennis sucks big time.

scarecrows
09-20-2007, 10:05 PM
women's tennis sucks and there's nothing new here but Okun shouldnt be the one to complain

*Viva Chile*
09-20-2007, 10:06 PM
What a misogynist prick... :rolleyes:

He must be ashamed giving this declarations while Shahar was present on the crowd today supporting the DC Israeli team :o

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 10:06 PM
Peer > Okun

:rolleyes:

Far more than Okun or Sela :kiss:

How dare you compare men's tennis with that something women play?

tangerine_dream
09-20-2007, 10:08 PM
mens tennis > womens tennis

is simple

In general I would agree but someone like Okun shouldn't be complaining about how Israel is focusing so much on women's tennis when he himself hasn't done much for Israeli/men's tennis. Peer is the most successful player they have today.

slasherasher
09-20-2007, 10:08 PM
Mens tennis is clearly better than womens, not only do matches last a lot longer on average, but the quality and pace of the tennis is alot higher and more entertaining. The majority of views for women's tennis may well have more to do with the size of the jugs on show rather than the quality of shots. The gulf is there for all to see and you can't deny that.

Chris 84
09-20-2007, 10:08 PM
How dare you compare men's tennis with that something women play?

Hmmmm....very easily :D

He can make an argument about equal pay, etc without resorting to sheer sexism. And he has a cheek to talk about any of it, considering the fact that he's such a mediocre journeyman player.

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 10:09 PM
In general I would agree but someone like Okun shouldn't be complaining about how Israel is focusing so much on women's tennis when he himself hasn't done much for Israeli/men's tennis.

Of course he is. Any top 1000 men does much more for tennis than women.

Lucinda
09-20-2007, 10:09 PM
Jealousy is never pretty.

FedFan_2007
09-20-2007, 10:10 PM
This guy needs to be hit with a 2x4 cluebat fast.

Bad Religion
09-20-2007, 10:11 PM
What a misogynist prick... :rolleyes:

He must be ashamed giving this declarations while Shahar was present on the crowd today supporting the DC Israeli team :o

I had luck in not watching Shahar while I saw the match :D

Anyway , this Okun guy can't complain too much , he sucks big time and Peer is a solid top 20 even if she sucks

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 10:11 PM
He can make an argument about equal pay, etc without resorting to sheer sexism. And he has a cheek to talk about any of it, considering the fact that he's such a mediocre journeyman player.

Why is it sexism to say women's tennis sucks? It's the truth.

Mediocre journeyman player? Who are you to talk about it? The guy made it to the top 100 in his career, I wonder how many people here will ever be top 100 in their careers, doesn't matter what they do.

tangerine_dream
09-20-2007, 10:11 PM
Of course he is. Any top 1000 men does much more for tennis than women.
Glenn, I can never find enough retard smilies to use for your posts.

Yappa
09-20-2007, 10:13 PM
I really prefer men's tennis, but comparing women's tennis with women's soccer is too harsh imo. The WTA tour at least has, although only a few, players like Henin, who is entertaining to watch. Women's soccer, though, is way more painful to watch.

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 10:13 PM
Glenn, I can never find enough retard smilies to use for your posts.

I can see logic is beyond your comprehension.

Chris 84
09-20-2007, 10:14 PM
Of course he is. Any top 1000 men does much more for tennis than women.

Why is it sexism to say women's tennis sucks? It's the truth.

Mediocre journeyman player? Who are you to talk about it? The guy made it to the top 100 in his career, I wonder how many people here will ever be top 100 in their careers, doesn't matter what they do.

Your posts always crack me up :lol:

I'm never sure if it is a lack of intelligence on your part or a burning desire to be controversial.....probably a bit of both :kiss:

RagingLamb
09-20-2007, 10:15 PM
the guy sounds like a dick.

someone should tape his mouth shut.

Adler
09-20-2007, 10:18 PM
At least he's being honest and doesn't say usual crap, so that we can have a talk about it and fulfill some of our precious free time

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 10:19 PM
Your posts always crack me up :lol:

I'm never sure if it is a lack of intelligence on your part or a burning desire to be controversial.....probably a bit of both :kiss:

Funny a WTA-apologist trying to act like someone smart. I guess people who take WTA seriously either have a negative IQ or are just helpless idiots.

There's no way to respect any opinion from a WTA-tard.

Chris 84
09-20-2007, 10:22 PM
Funny a WTA-apologist trying to act like someone smart. I guess people who take WTA seriously either have a negative IQ or are just helpless idiots.

There's no way to respect any opinion from a WTA-tard.

Judging by your posts on the matter, I think it is fairly obvious which of us is the more intelligent. If I have a negative IQ, then I wonder what the hell your IQ is :o

Allure
09-20-2007, 10:24 PM
I think women's tennis gets too much attention and that many matches suck but he shouldn't diss his own country woman like that. :o

GlennMirnyi
09-20-2007, 10:25 PM
Judging by your posts on the matter, I think it is fairly obvious which of us is the more intelligent. If I have a negative IQ, then I wonder what the hell your IQ is :o

Of course it's easy. I know men's tennis is a sport and women's tennis is heavy :bs:. That makes me at least more intelligent than you (as if that wasn't clear enough from the start).

NicoFan
09-20-2007, 10:40 PM
Wow...what an asshole.

NicoFan
09-20-2007, 10:42 PM
What a misogynist prick... :rolleyes:

He must be ashamed giving this declarations while Shahar was present on the crowd today supporting the DC Israeli team :o

:lol:

I wish I had read through the complete thread before I responded.

Perfectly said Viva Chile. ;)

R.Federer
09-20-2007, 10:42 PM
If Dudi was No. 50 in the world, they would be discussing him more and writing more about him than Peer.

He would have to be much better than 50 to be discussed more than the charming and entertainig Peer.

I don't have any desire to talk about women's tennis, because men's tennis is more attractive.
Then why are you talking so much about it?! :scratch:

It is easy to be successful in the women's, and you can't even compare the two.

Bah humbug. False. Is EVERYONE on the women's tour successful? Negative

Raquel
09-20-2007, 10:44 PM
While I think men's tennis is higher quality, this does sound like sour grapes. If Dudi was in the top 50? Big if. Shahar's not a big If though. She has at least made the top 50, and more. She's a hard worker and deserves her praise. It's a shame Okun cannot be more like Leander Paes and Mahesh Bhupathi who have backed Sania Mirza in India and recognised the impact she could have on Indian girls and get them playing tennis. Until Dudi Sela or Noam Okun achieve the same as Shahar, it will be her who is more likely to inspire people to get into the game in Israel - not Noam's Challenger results.

I'm sure if you asked Amos Mansdorf (who did make the top 20, no "ifs") what he thought of Shahar Peer I'm sure he'd be full of praise.

MisterQ
09-20-2007, 10:51 PM
He comes off as quite a loser with comments like that.

TMJordan
09-20-2007, 10:52 PM
You da man, Noam :yeah:

Chloe le Bopper
09-20-2007, 10:55 PM
Misogyny is like a pair of basic black pants - a staple which never truly goes out of style.

rocketassist
09-20-2007, 10:57 PM
Anyone who slates WTA is soooo obviously a misogynist. :rolleyes:

Okun is spot on with his comments and the dollies don't know what heart it takes to run around and fight for five hours. The one good WTA match in the last years was Davenport-V Williams in Wimbledon, every other one has been :yawn:

Waits for scoobsuk and the 'educated' crew to turn up with their AR33 Assault Rifles.

NicoFan
09-20-2007, 11:07 PM
Okun is spot on with his comments and the dollies don't know what heart it takes to run around and fight for five hours. The one good WTA match in the last years was Davenport-V Williams in Wimbledon, every other one has been :yawn:

Dollies?

Yes, you and Okun can be best buddies. :rolleyes:

Caio_Brasil
09-20-2007, 11:09 PM
Bad words from Okun. He should have thought better before saying that. I'm not a women's tennis fan, but this doesn't make the sport useless. And yes, this IS sexism. What else can it be? Saying about women's soccer that it's a sport that doesn't exist, what a retard! I saw the Brazilian team at the Pan-Am games and the girls played such organizingly and with an amazing talent. Anyone who saw Marta playing knows what I'm talking about. From women's tennis, the few matches i've seen, i can say that Justine's game is wonderful. Nonsense this Okun :rolleyes:

World Beater
09-20-2007, 11:11 PM
a critique of womens tennis is one thing. But singling out shahar makes him seem like a sore loser.

krystlel
09-20-2007, 11:39 PM
Women's tennis may lack variety, but it is not easy to be successful in it.

Peer is rightfully getting all the attention.

Archer16
09-20-2007, 11:41 PM
What, little bastard! She was sitting right there in the crowd rooting for you today. Should have rooted for Gonzo, honestly.

I wonder what is up with him, I mean - this is very unusual for players in Israel (unless they play soccer for opposite teams) to talk like that about each other, especially when in opposite genders, there are so few of them, the community is so small, they share coaches and training facilities.

Very odd.

Plus, I think he is wrong - they would be talking about Shahar being a top 15 player regardless of the ranking of our men, she's only the second Israeli woman who had made it into the top 15, the hype is well justified.

Plus, he is an idiot, Shahar is the reason Tennis in Israel is generating interest again, it is definitly not thanks to him, or Dudi.
While I think men's tennis is higher quality, this does sound like sour grapes. If Dudi was in the top 50? Big if. Shahar's not a big If though. She has at least made the top 50, and more. She's a hard worker and deserves her praise. It's a shame Okun cannot be more like Leander Paes and Mahesh Bhupathi who have backed Sania Mirza in India and recognised the impact she could have on Indian girls and get them playing tennis. Until Dudi Sela or Noam Okun achieve the same as Shahar, it will be her who is more likely to inspire people to get into the game in Israel - not Noam's Challenger results.

I'm sure if you asked Amos Mansdorf (who did make the top 20, no "ifs") what he thought of Shahar Peer I'm sure he'd be full of praise.
Both quoted posts were very well put.
With that said, women's tennis is clearly inferior to the men's in nearly all aspects, and even putting the level of play aside, they shouldn't get equal pay until they play equal sets.
I think Navratilova had said something to the extent that Henin is the only female player whose matches are worth paying for. When you remember who is #2 and the recent form of the previous #2, she has a point.
Just two recent topics out of many:
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=316100
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=316391 (recent scores of Women's majors finals)

But as a few said before ("how many 5h matches has he ever played?"), Okun is not the one who should be making those claims, especially not in such an unloyal manner.

cobalt60
09-20-2007, 11:43 PM
What, little bastard! She was sitting right there in the crowd rooting for you today. Should have rooted for Gonzo, honestly.

I wonder what is up with him, I mean - this is very unusual for players in Israel (unless they play soccer for opposite teams) to talk like that about each other, especially when in opposite genders, there are so few of them, the community is so small, they share coaches and training facilities.

Very odd.

Plus, I think he is wrong - they would be talking about Shahar being a top 15 player regardless of the ranking of our men, she's only the second Israeli woman who had made it into the top 15, the hype is well justified.

Plus, he is an idiot, Shahar is the reason Tennis in Israel is generating interest again, it is definitly not thanks to him, or Dudi.

Good post. :yeah: I am interested to see if there will be any followup/response. Or whether or not it was taken out of context in any way. Gotta love the press ;)

Renaud
09-20-2007, 11:51 PM
Mansdorf > (Peer + Okun ) X 100000000000

*Viva Chile*
09-21-2007, 12:28 AM
a critique of womens tennis is one thing. But singling out shahar makes him seem like a sore loser.

Well said :yeah:
I'm not a fan of WTA either, I only watched few when Martina and Kim were at her prime, but the fact that the same Shahar Peer was rooting for him today and he had said that comments about her is a shame. :o

Beforehand
09-21-2007, 12:39 AM
Whether or not women's tennis is worse or not isn't even the issue. Okun sounds hilarious talking that way about anyone who has achieved so much more than he has, and it's hardly a valid response to say "Yeah, it's all Shahar Peer's fault that the rest of the women are terrible, too!" Next time, Okun might want to aim for another player.

Burrow
09-21-2007, 12:42 AM
:worship:

The guy is completely correct.

Burrow
09-21-2007, 12:43 AM
a critique of womens tennis is one thing. But singling out shahar makes him seem like a sore loser.

Well who the fuck else is he going to single out to use as an example?

guille&tati4life
09-21-2007, 01:17 AM
Okun's a moron and a crap player, who the fuck cares what he thinks :lol:

ReturnWinner
09-21-2007, 01:28 AM
I could not agree more with Okun, Women tennis sucks :)

FedFan_2007
09-21-2007, 01:29 AM
Peer is a shitty player.

ReturnWinner
09-21-2007, 01:29 AM
Okun's a moron and a crap player, who the fuck cares what he thinks :lol:


I care and btw he is better than any wta player

Burrow
09-21-2007, 01:32 AM
Using someone who was there supporting his team in Davis Cup isn't the best start.

Well there are no other examples to use of a highly ranked Israely, are there?

He had no choice, but to name her.

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 01:44 AM
He would have to be much better than 50 to be discussed more than the charming and entertainig Peer.

Then why are you talking so much about it?! :scratch:

Bah humbug. False. Is EVERYONE on the women's tour successful? Negative

No, he doesn't need to be a top 50 to say whatever he wants. If any top 1000 male player can defeat any woman in the WTA, why should he be top-something to say anything?

Anyone who slates WTA is soooo obviously a misogynist. :rolleyes:

Okun is spot on with his comments and the dollies don't know what heart it takes to run around and fight for five hours. The one good WTA match in the last years was Davenport-V Williams in Wimbledon, every other one has been :yawn:

Waits for scoobsuk and the 'educated' crew to turn up with their AR33 Assault Rifles.

AR24.

Bad words from Okun. He should have thought better before saying that. I'm not a women's tennis fan, but this doesn't make the sport useless. And yes, this IS sexism. What else can it be? Saying about women's soccer that it's a sport that doesn't exist, what a retard! I saw the Brazilian team at the Pan-Am games and the girls played such organizingly and with an amazing talent. Anyone who saw Marta playing knows what I'm talking about. From women's tennis, the few matches i've seen, i can say that Justine's game is wonderful. Nonsense this Okun :rolleyes:

Bullshit. Women's tennis is crap and so is football. Any neighbourhood team with many beer-bellied players can beat women's national football teams.

Okun's a moron and a crap player, who the fuck cares what he thinks :lol:

He's a former top 100. If a guy who got this high in the ranking is a crap player, why are you watching tennis?

Renaud
09-21-2007, 02:12 AM
He's a former top 100. If a guy who got this high in the ranking is a crap player, why are you watching tennis?

Funny from the guy who told the actual 31 in the world is a mediocre pusher ...

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 02:14 AM
Funny from the guy who told the actual 31 in the world is a mediocre pusher ...

Which part in mediocre can't you understand?

Johnny Groove
09-21-2007, 02:19 AM
Which part in mediocre can't you understand?

I think he is referring to the fact that you praise guys like Okun (who didnt even win today) because he made the top 100 and either made a statement you agree with or plays a style you enjoy, but guys like Djokovic, Nadal, and everyone else you dont like you take shots at when they've won slams, TMs and made slam finals

Kind of a double standard here

Renaud
09-21-2007, 02:22 AM
Which part in mediocre can't you understand?

If 31 is mediocre 186 is a crap.. i agree with you.

World Beater
09-21-2007, 02:26 AM
Well who the fuck else is he going to single out to use as an example?

lol..it isnt peer's fault that women's tennis as a whole isnt as deep or whatever as the men's game.

this is just jealousy from noam. he should be happy for her instead of resenting another country woman's success.

he would probably spout similar nonsense if dudi sela were achieving success but come up for different reasons.

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 02:28 AM
I think he is referring to the fact that you praise guys like Okun (who didnt even win today) because he made the top 100 and either made a statement you agree with or plays a style you enjoy, but guys like Djokovic, Nadal, and everyone else you dont like you take shots at when they've won slams, TMs and made slam finals

Kind of a double standard here

No way.

When I read some no-ones saying Okun is a crap player and that he should be quite because of that, it makes me cringe, mainly because the probablility of anybody here being a top 100 in their careers is close to nil.

Nadal is a moonballer. That's not tennis and Simon is a mediocre pusher.

It's not because they play anti-tennis that I should praise their achievements.

Fakervic is at another level. He's just a cheater. It's different of being a moonballer/mediocre/etc.

Summing up those loose sentences, being mediocre isn't the same as being crap. Crap players are amateurs like us. You can't call a pro a "crap player". You can maybe say they suck, that they are mediocres, that they don't play tennis, but crap is a bit much.

Well, not for Massu, but it's okay.

Johnny Groove
09-21-2007, 02:34 AM
No way.

When I read some no-ones saying Okun is a crap player and that he should be quite because of that, it makes me cringe, mainly because the probablility of anybody here being a top 100 in their careers is close to nil.

Nadal is a moonballer. That's not tennis and Simon is a mediocre pusher.

It's not because they play anti-tennis that I should praise their achievements.

Fakervic is at another level. He's just a cheater. It's different of being a moonballer/mediocre/etc.

Summing up those loose sentences, being mediocre isn't the same as being crap. Crap players are amateurs like us. You can't call a pro a "crap player". You can maybe say they suck, that they are mediocres, that they don't play tennis, but crap is a bit much.

Well, not for Massu, but it's okay.

The importance of differing views I guess. There are some who think that Mirnyi's game is shit to look at, Soderling is a complete clown, and negative things of all your faves as well.

As for Massu, Ive never seen anything to make me think positively about him. I mean, how can you play a 5+ hour match with that scoreline today. Talk about an optical torturing for those watching

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 02:34 AM
If 31 is mediocre 186 is a crap.. i agree with you.

Guess you have problems understanding the mediocre concept.

*Viva Chile*
09-21-2007, 02:36 AM
WTA tennis may suck well and be the worst sport in the world, but complaining against a girl who went to support you in a match without any obligation to do it is digned from a moron, that's my opinion... there are many other forms to say "men tennis in Israel needs more support from the media"

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 02:37 AM
The importance of differing views I guess. There are some who think that Mirnyi's game is shit to look at, Soderling is a complete clown, and negative things of all your faves as well.

As for Massu, Ive never seen anything to make me think positively about him. I mean, how can you play a 5+ hour match with that scoreline today. Talk about an optical torturing for those watching

:lol: at you talking about Massu, when he's, with a lot of justice, considered Nadal's master in the cheating/gamesmanship department.

nolop
09-21-2007, 02:47 AM
first, its clear he has no manners :shrug:
his game sucks enough to be beaten by a player who can barely pass the first round (i know he won beijing).
i prefer womens tennis because its more delicate, soft and theres actually rallies in women tennis :tape:

World Beater
09-21-2007, 02:49 AM
first, its clear he has no manners :shrug:
his game sucks enough to be beaten by a player who can barely pass the first round (i know he won beijing).
i prefer womens tennis because its more delicate, soft and theres actually rallies in women tennis :tape:

william, sharapova, davenport all masters of finesse :tape: :help:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 02:49 AM
WELL START FENA!

:lol:

GonzoFed
09-21-2007, 02:54 AM
nolop is back!!!! :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

nolop
09-21-2007, 02:56 AM
william, sharapova, davenport all masters of finesse :tape: :help:

ok, but i can watch rallies :D
and venus movement is a pleasure to see, serenas serve can be compared with an average top men player and davenports groundies are beautiful so it is masha.:D

nolop
09-21-2007, 02:57 AM
nolop is back!!!! :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

i was back when fernando won his first match in beijing :D

nolop
09-21-2007, 02:58 AM
WELL START FENA!

:lol:

in fact he had a horrible start.

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 02:58 AM
ok, but i can watch rallies :D
and venus movement is a pleasure to see, serenas serve can be compared with an average top men player and davenports groundies are beautiful so it is masha.:D

Only if that average man is called Filippo Volandri. :haha:

What a bunch of :bs:!

WELL START FENA!

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:04 AM
Only if that average man is called Filippo Volandri. :haha:

What a bunch of :bs:!

WELL START FENA!

get some facts, ferrer average first serve had 108mph (in the match with novak), serenas average first serve had 106mph(against justine), plus she had a fastest serve of 124mph ferrer just 118mph :awww:

davydenko just had an average of 104mph (against fed) even justine beat him.:D

World Beater
09-21-2007, 03:08 AM
get some facts, ferrer average first serve had 108mph (in the match with novak), serenas average first serve had 106mph(against justine), plus she had a fastest serve of 124mph ferrer just 118mph :awww:

davydenko just had an average of 104mph (against fed) even justine beat him.:D

women can hit the ball hard, they just cant generate the same amount of spin because they dont have racquet head speed like the men do.

a 105 mph nalbandian serve is actually kicked up high with some effective spin in the corner whereas serena 105 goes in the middle of the box as a flat serve.

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:10 AM
get some facts, ferrer average first serve had 108mph (in the match with novak), serenas average first serve had 106mph(against justine), plus she had a fastest serve of 124mph ferrer just 118mph :awww:

davydenko just had an average of 104mph (against fed) even justine beat him.:D

No aim discussing with someone who compares women's and men's strokes, at ANY level.

Ferrer's serve must have a whole lot of spin to be competitive, while women can just throw those ridiculous flat serves and get away with it.

If Serena's serve is so good explain to me how she only scored one game (or two) against Kaarsten Braasch, the main reason ATP prohibited smoking at changeovers?

Get a clue.

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:11 AM
women can hit the ball hard, they just cant generate the same amount of spin because they dont have racquet head speed like the men do.

a 105 mph nalbandian serve is actually kicked up high with some effective spin in the corner whereas serena 105 goes in the middle of the box as a flat serve.

WRONG, serenas is one of the few wta players who has an excellent kick serve some others players even described her serve as a lob.:wavey:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:12 AM
I told you, no use arguing.

WELL START FENA!

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:12 AM
No aim discussing with someone who compares women's and men's strokes, at ANY level.

Ferrer's serve must have a whole lot of spin to be competitive, while women can just throw those ridiculous flat serves and get away with it.

If Serena's serve is so good explain to me how she only scored one game (or two) against Kaarsten Braasch, the main reason ATP prohibited smoking at changeovers?

Get a clue.

WRONG, see above

get a clue yourself.

ChinoRios4Ever
09-21-2007, 03:12 AM
:o

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:13 AM
I told you, no use arguing.

WELL START FENA!

you just dont want to be wrong :D
and i wish he had a well start :o

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:13 AM
Even other Chileans are embarassed of your :bs:, WELL START FENA.

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:16 AM
and the match with that german guy was in 1998 or 1999 i think, serenas serve was nothing like it is now.

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:17 AM
Even other Chileans are embarassed of your :bs:, WELL START FENA.

whatever you just cant admit that you are wrong this time :D

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:19 AM
and the match with that german guy was in 1998 or 1999 i think, serenas serve was nothing like it is now.

Yeah right. :rolleyes:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:21 AM
How can someone not a Safinette even compare men's and women's strokes?

I bet McEnroe would beat any WTA player, S&Ving.

World Beater
09-21-2007, 03:22 AM
WRONG, serenas is one of the few wta players who has an excellent kick serve some others players even described her serve as a lob.:wavey:

:haha:

nvm

serena's serve may appear to be a kick for henin, but its no kick for federer or roddick. :lol:

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:23 AM
Yeah right. :rolleyes:

in fact it was in 1998, she barely knew how to serve technically clean at that time. :D

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:23 AM
Man, lay off the crack.

It was in 1999. Kaarsten was just 30. :lol:

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:24 AM
:haha:

nvm

serena's serve may appear to be a kick for henin, but its no kick for federer or roddick. :lol:

well thats because fed and roddick are one of the best serves on atp tour and their average first serve are around the 120mph :retard:

Dusk Soldier
09-21-2007, 03:26 AM
Pretty sour grapes :o
Why wouldn't he be? :shrug: He's a better tennis player than she is, but she gets all the money, press, attention etc.

World Beater
09-21-2007, 03:27 AM
well thats because fed and roddick are one of the best serves on atp tour and their average first serve are around the 120mph :retard:

i was talking about federer and roddick being 6'2 and henin being 5'6...so no, you deserve the :retard: icon cos you thought i was talking about serving when i was talking about returning a kick serve.

henin saying serena has a kick serve is different than federer saying serena has a kick serve. :rolleyes:

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:27 AM
Man, lay off the crack.

It was in 1999. Kaarsten was just 30. :lol:

do some research.

www.google.com, do you know that website? write "serena williams vs Karsten Braasch 1998" and click on search :D

FedFan_2007
09-21-2007, 03:29 AM
GlennMirnyi - lay off the crack man. WTA tennis > ATP tennis by light years. Henin > Federer.

GonzoFed
09-21-2007, 03:29 AM
Chile could win the ACC now i think.

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:30 AM
do some research.

www.google.com (http://www.google.com), do you know that website? write "serena williams vs Karsten Braasch 1998" and click on search :D


http://www.lpga.com/content_1.aspx?pid=4471&mid=4

1999.



WELL START FENA! :retard:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:32 AM
Chile could win the ACC now i think.

Big favorites. Add that clown Bad Religion to the team.

ChinoRios4Ever
09-21-2007, 03:33 AM
I remember Braasch (a big smoker like Pics Ferrer) beat both Williams in 98...

it was 6-1 or 6-2 something like that :)

GonzoFed
09-21-2007, 03:35 AM
if i remember correctly, the Williams sisters had no clue about how to deal with Braasch's serve.

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:35 AM
i was talking about federer and roddick being 6'2 and henin being 5'6...so no, you deserve the :retard: icon cos you thought i was talking about serving when i was talking about returning a kick serve.

henin saying serena has a kick serve is different than federer saying serena has a kick serve. :rolleyes:

in fact i believe i was quoting jankovic who is 5'9 1/2'' fed is 6'1'' :D

Bad Religion
09-21-2007, 03:37 AM
I remember Braasch (a big smoker like Pics Ferrer) beat both Williams in 98...

it was 6-1 or 6-2 something like that :)

Who cares ?

Serena has all the slams and her place in the HOF

Maybe that Braasch guy is cleaning some WC in Germany ATM

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:39 AM
Who cares ?

Serena has all the slams and her place in the HOF

Maybe that Braasch guy is cleaning some WC in Germany ATM

Big deal, nobody respects women's tennis.

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:40 AM
http://www.lpga.com/content_1.aspx?pid=4471&mid=4

1999.



WELL START FENA! :retard:

serena and venus challenged that guy in the 98 australian open
theres no site apart form the one you choose that says otherwise :retard:

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:41 AM
get a clue before making statements :lol:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:41 AM
serena and venus challenged that guy in the 98 australian open
theres no site apart form the one you choose that says otherwise :retard:

I provide a link. You provide nothing.

Bad Religion
09-21-2007, 03:41 AM
Big deal, nobody respects women's tennis.

Big deal , WS sisters have a lot money

Serena wins more money than 10 millons of Brazilians together

TheBoiledEgg
09-21-2007, 03:42 AM
Wow...what an asshole.

Noam or GlennMirnyi :tape:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:42 AM
Serena serves better than man. That should go along your moronic thread WELL START FENA after he got to 30-0 in a match. :haha:

TMJordan
09-21-2007, 03:43 AM
:haha:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:45 AM
Big deal , WS sisters have a lot money

Serena wins more money than 10 millons of Brazilians

Serena's got as many titles as there's intelligent humble people in Chile.

Noam or GlennMirnyi :tape:

As usual Safinettes can't grasp basic concepts.

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:46 AM
I provide a link. You provide nothing.

http://www.kompas.com/kompas-cetak/0401/24/or/818906.htm
http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2003/05/tennis_gals_vs_tennis_guys.html
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/stories2/2002-04-24-usat-mac-williams.htm
http://www.starling-fitness.com/archives/2006/05/12/why-women-should-be-allowed-to-compete/
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/02/22/and-only-34-years-after-billy-jean-king-beat-bobby-riggs/

:retard:

*Viva Chile*
09-21-2007, 03:46 AM
Braasch serve motion :haha:

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:47 AM
Serena serves better than man. That should go along your moronic thread WELL START FENA after he got to 30-0 in a match. :haha:

dont put words in my mouth :retard:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 03:49 AM
dont put words in my mouth :retard:

Pardon, do you want something else?

You said she serves better than the average male on tour. What's that?

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:54 AM
Pardon, do you want something else?

You said she serves better than the average male on tour. What's that?

i know you wanted to meant it as i said that she serves better than any man :wavey:
and she surely serves better than davydenko and ferrer. who are average top male players :D

nolop
09-21-2007, 03:59 AM
well at least she served better than them in the semis but still my original post was that her serve can be considered as good as an average man and it is actually true.

*Viva Chile*
09-21-2007, 03:59 AM
dont put words on my mouth

Pardon, do you want something else?


:spit:

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 04:02 AM
i know you wanted to meant it as i said that she serves better than any man :wavey:
and she surely serves better than davydenko and ferrer. who are average top male players :D

well at least she served better than them in the semis but still my original post was that her serve can be considered as good as an average man and it is actually true.

Yada-yada-yada.

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 04:13 AM
Karsten Braasch rules.

ReturnWinner
09-21-2007, 04:16 AM
Okun was a little cruel in the way of saying the things but he was 100% right in all he said

TMJordan
09-21-2007, 04:16 AM
Karsten Braasch rules.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 04:20 AM
At least Okun didn't hide behind some nice PC words to explain his disdain for the womens game.

Allure
09-21-2007, 04:22 AM
Big favorites. Add that clown Bad Religion to the team.

:worship:

World Beater
09-21-2007, 04:28 AM
in fact i believe i was quoting jankovic who is 5'9 1/2'' fed is 6'1'' :D

3 1/2 inches and not to mention arm span as well at the very least. federer isn't 6'1 btw but one inch won't make a difference

serena doesnt serve better than davydenko. :lol:

anyways, i agree that serena has a good serve for the women's game but any words of praise for serena coming from her competitors is like saying that junior players thinking donald young is a big hitter.

im not going to be drawn into some stupid bashing parade of the women's tour any longer even though you are tempting me.:wavey:

Johnny Groove
09-21-2007, 04:33 AM
:lol: at you talking about Massu, when he's, with a lot of justice, considered Nadal's master in the cheating/gamesmanship department.

I find it funny that you can somehow bash other people when they are agreeing with you :rolleyes:

Bad Religion
09-21-2007, 04:35 AM
:worship:

Give him a son

A delusional Gasqueer fan like you (richie21) won this contest months ago. Maybe you'll be the next winner , who knows :)

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 04:52 AM
I find it funny that you can somehow bash other people when they are agreeing with you :rolleyes:

No, what I mean is that you talk about Massu being a boring delayer, when Nadal is just the same stuff.

Give him a son

A delusional Gasqueer fan like you (richie21) won this contest months ago. Maybe you'll be the next winner , who knows :)

If your posts weren't so laughable, you'd win too.

FedFan_2007
09-21-2007, 04:53 AM
3 1/2 inches and not to mention arm span as well at the very least. federer isn't 6'1 btw but one inch won't make a difference

serena doesnt serve better than davydenko. :lol:

anyways, i agree that serena has a good serve for the women's game but any words of praise for serena coming from her competitors is like saying that junior players thinking donald young is a big hitter.

im not going to be drawn into some stupid bashing parade of the women's tour any longer even though you are tempting me.:wavey:

Uh yeah Fed is 6'1". Idiot. :mad: :mad: :mad:

World Beater
09-21-2007, 04:55 AM
Uh yeah Fed is 6'1". Idiot. :mad: :mad: :mad:

use your eyes rfk. dont be blinded by the scheming atp tour;)

Marek.
09-21-2007, 05:01 AM
Great thread :yeah:

AnnaK_4ever
09-21-2007, 05:27 AM
It's hard to decide who's more retarded of the two: Okun or GlennMirnyi...

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 05:31 AM
It's hard to decide who's more retarded of the two: Okun or GlennMirnyi...

But it's even harder to know who's more intelligent: you or a tree.

TMJordan
09-21-2007, 05:32 AM
But it's even harder to know who's more intelligent: you or a tree.

True.

GlennMirnyi
09-21-2007, 05:34 AM
True.

"You must spread more reputation around before giving it to TMJordan again."

TMJordan
09-21-2007, 05:35 AM
"You must spread more reputation around before giving it to TMJordan again."

Same for me, I wasted it on a damn wink :p

Allure
09-21-2007, 05:39 AM
Give him a son

A delusional Gasqueer fan like you (richie21) won this contest months ago. Maybe you'll be the next winner , who knows :)

How could he win with you around? The contest must be rigged. :lol:

Allure
09-21-2007, 05:40 AM
use your eyes rfk. dont be blinded by the scheming atp tour;)

True. Gasquet is listed at 6'1 yet when he stands next to Fed or Nadal he is always an inch shorter. That means Fed and Nadal are taller than they are billed or Gasquet is shorter than he is billed.

AnnaK_4ever
09-21-2007, 05:44 AM
But it's even harder to know who's more intelligent: you or a tree.

It's hard for you only because you are retarded.

Poor young man :sad: Mother Nature was cruel to you :hug:

JMG
09-21-2007, 06:20 AM
Who cares ?

Serena has all the slams and her place in the HOF

Maybe that Braasch guy is cleaning some WC in Germany ATM

You retard. :retard: Don't talk like that with Braasch. He's still involved in tennis and is 100x bigger than any WTA player. :worship:

scarecrows
09-21-2007, 06:24 AM
A delusional Gasqueer fan like you (richie21) won this contest months ago. Maybe you'll be the next winner , who knows :)

mtw won, richie21 came just close

Merton
09-21-2007, 06:57 AM
Comparing women serving with men :haha: There are three components, apart from speed, spin and placement are important. Actually, I doubt that Volandri would ever get threatened on his serve by any WTA player. The funny thing is that the difference is even larger on the return of serve.

As for Okun, his timing was bad but on the other hand I doubt he gets so many opportunities to make his opinions known and good for him that he had the courage to speak frankly.

It is a given that women's tennis will just be a different sport than men's, what bothers me about the WTA is that there does not seem to be any evolution in the sport, no progress since the 80s. Lendl was candid to say that he would not be a top player playing today, this is just not true with the women's game, bring Graf through a time-machine and she would be top-3 player. Embarrasing.

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 06:59 AM
There has been an evolution in the WTA, they are for the most part brainless ball bashers.

Merton
09-21-2007, 07:01 AM
Yes, they found out that better equipment can generate more power, and that attracted stronger girls in the game. There has also been evolution in another direction, following Kournikova's steps. :tape:

VolandriFan
09-21-2007, 07:02 AM
I wish people like Okun (who?) would just shut the hell up. It's obvious that women don't have the physical capabilities of their male counterparts, but they train just as hard for their results, exert the same amount of energy and display the same determination to win. So ultimately, they are doing the same load of work equivalent to their physical capacity.

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 07:04 AM
Yes, they found out that better equipment can generate more power, and that attracted stronger girls in the game. There has also been evolution in another direction, following Kournikova's steps. :tape:

Good that Henin is the WTA number 1.

VolandriFan
09-21-2007, 07:06 AM
There has been an evolution in the WTA, they are for the most part brainless ball bashers.

And that works well for them on the current WTA tour. For the most part, the girls at the top are the ones who can hit the ball the hardest and most consistently with good depth. They're not going to change their game to something ineffective for the sake of beauty/attractivity to the average tennis fan.

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 07:11 AM
And that works well for them on the current WTA tour. For the most part, the girls at the top are the ones who can hit the ball the hardest and most consistently with good depth. They're not going to change their game to something ineffective for the sake of beauty/attractivity to the average tennis fan.

Yes, brainless ball bashing is great to watch. Wow, lets hit the ball hard with no brains or thought behind it. This is just as bad as the serving and ace fests that were going on in the 90s.

Yes, it's not effective to change tactics, instead of hitting the ball harder. It's not effective to change the speed and expose their lack of movement. Not many women can hit a good kick serve and as for volleying even worse than the guys.

Good that Henin is number 1 and doesn't play like the majority of the others.

Merton
09-21-2007, 07:11 AM
Good that Henin is the WTA number 1.

Yes, Henin-Sveta was a dream final for the USTA. :D I only follow sporadically these days, last tournament I followed closely on the women's side was the 2004 Olympics. It was great cheering for Myskina against Daniilidou, I didn't really care but the contrarian in me took over. :)

World Beater
09-21-2007, 07:14 AM
Yes, brainless ball bashing is great to watch. Wow, lets hit the ball hard with no brains or thought behind it. This is just as bad as the serving and ace fests that were going on in the 90s.

Yes, it's not effective to change tactics, instead of hitting the ball harder. It's not effective to change the speed and expose their lack of movement. Not many women can hit a good kick serve and as for volleying even worse than the guys.

Good that Henin is number 1 and doesn't play like the majority of the others.

henin is much lauded as being a finesse player and while she can slice the ball. She is pretty much a power hitter herself just with slightly more variety and the single handed backhand also looks nice.

but really she isnt that different from the rest. I find mauresmo is actually a much more varied player than henin.

VolandriFan
09-21-2007, 07:16 AM
I find mauresmo is actually a much more varied player than henin.

Including her results :tape:

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 07:19 AM
henin is much lauded as being a finesse player and while she can slice the ball. She is pretty much a power hitter herself just with slightly more variety and the single handed backhand also looks nice.

but really she isnt that different from the rest. I find mauresmo is actually a much more varied player than henin.

Henin can volley, it's very hard to be a solely power player when she is a midget compared to the other taller and stronger girls.

She just doesn't bash the ball for no purpose, therefore she along with Hingis, Schynder, Mauresmo are different from the majority of the BBB on the WTA.

World Beater
09-21-2007, 07:20 AM
I wish people like Okun (who?) would just shut the hell up. It's obvious that women don't have the physical capabilities of their male counterparts, but they train just as hard for their results, exert the same amount of energy and display the same determination to win. So ultimately, they are doing the same load of work equivalent to their physical capacity.

you know this how?

the women can train much harder than they do. Women can run marathons and do the same things men do for the most part perhaps with less explosiveness. But fitness is no excuse and the fact that they play 3 sets means that they only have to train so hard.

i would never doubt their desire to win as we can also see how much determination williams et al have.

if the women actually played 5 sets, i personally think it would benefit both mauresmo and henin because they are two of the fittest on tour

VolandriFan
09-21-2007, 07:31 AM
you know this how?

the women can train much harder than they do. Women can run marathons and do the same things men do for the most part perhaps with less explosiveness. But fitness is no excuse and the fact that they play 3 sets means that they only have to train so hard.

i would never doubt their desire to win as we can also see how much determination williams et al have.

if the women actually played 5 sets, i personally think it would benefit both mauresmo and henin because they are two of the fittest on tour

I don't see where you are going with the whole marathon thing. There is no difference in exersion between running a marathon slowly and a half marathon at twice the pace. Women are physically incapable of keeping energy levels up for 5 sets as men do, it would only make the game more dull and tedious if they played 5 setters.

And you can't say that most players on the WTA tour don't train as hard as the men. I can't stress enough that just because men are doing more, doesn't mean that women aren't doing the same in equivalence. That said, I can think of at least 5 female players who put in more off-court work than our flabby number 1.

Bad Religion
09-21-2007, 07:44 AM
She just doesn't bash the ball for no purpose, therefore she along with Hingis, Schynder, Mauresmo are different from the majority of the BBB on the WTA.


Orange Juice Schnyder is not the big shit like you wannna sell her

Even Henin is not the big deal if you compare her with a power shotmaker like Seles. IMO Seles was by far more talented than Henin is
Being a player with power doesn´t mean that they are not talented or BBB

VolandriFan
09-21-2007, 07:55 AM
Henin can volley, it's very hard to be a solely power player when she is a midget compared to the other taller and stronger girls.

She just doesn't bash the ball for no purpose, therefore she along with Hingis, Schynder, Mauresmo are different from the majority of the BBB on the WTA.

Henin could only compete with the big hitters when she herself worked on fitness and power. She is also helped largely by the fact that Serena is 40-50 pounds overweight and Venus is nothing short of erratic. At their best, the Williams sisters would still regularly be beating Henin.

Hingis only uses varied tactics to subsidise her physical weaknesses, Schnyder is a moonballer who is terrible on fast surfaces and inable to adapt her tactics to any court with a low bounce. That leaves Mauresmo, strong up at the net, good footspeed, varied pace, and she's still only been able to win 2 slams as the end of her career approaches. It's just fact to me that power is the main component to a strong game in women's tennis.

Rogiman
09-21-2007, 08:25 AM
Mansdorf > (Peer + Okun ) X 100000000000:yeah:

Amos :bowdown:

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 11:11 AM
Amos Mansdorf greatest ever Israeli player.

Bad Religion
09-21-2007, 11:16 AM
Amos Mansdorf greatest ever Israeli player.

Which is not that difficult :tape:

JMG
09-21-2007, 11:18 AM
Gilad Bloom is a legend as well.

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 11:19 AM
Orange Juice Schnyder is not the big shit like you wannna sell her

Even Henin is not the big deal if you compare her with a power shotmaker like Seles. IMO Seles was by far more talented than Henin is
Being a player with power doesn´t mean that they are not talented or BBB

Schynder is a talented player, so she lacks the mentality to be consistent and is moody, and does she she uses angles and variations of pace and just doesn't hit hard for the sake of it and has done quite well with that considering.

How is Seles more talented than Henin? Just cause she hits harder or because she is a left hander? What are your theories behind that comment?

Bad Religion
09-21-2007, 11:26 AM
How is Seles more talented than Henin? Just cause she hits harder or because she is a left hander? What are your theories behind that comment?

If you have seen tennis like I think , this point doesn't need explanation

Seles is the greatest talent ever. Henin is not even close

Action Jackson
09-21-2007, 11:28 AM
Henin could only compete with the big hitters when she herself worked on fitness and power. She is also helped largely by the fact that Serena is 40-50 pounds overweight and Venus is nothing short of erratic. At their best, the Williams sisters would still regularly be beating Henin.

No shit sherlock, got to adapt to the conditions to survive in the game. Is she a solely a brainless ball bashing bimbo? Then the answer is clearly no and what ifs are the great things. The Williams sisters aren't at their best now are they, so the what if is irrelevant. Federer can hit with power, but he isn't just a power player is he?

Hingis only uses varied tactics to subsidise her physical weaknesses, Schnyder is a moonballer who is terrible on fast surfaces and inable to adapt her tactics to any court with a low bounce. That leaves Mauresmo, strong up at the net, good footspeed, varied pace, and she's still only been able to win 2 slams as the end of her career approaches. It's just fact to me that power is the main component to a strong game in women's tennis.

Hingis plays the game that suits her physique and her mentality. She isn't going to bulk up and take steroids and come back as Serena Williams and just start blasting is she?

Schynder has won faster surfaces, but hey Gaudio at his best sucks on faster surfaces, through a lack of application and other factors, this does not take away from his talent when it comes to hitting a tennis ball, not that Schynder is at that level, but at least she can vary her shots unlike these other chicks who just bash the fuck out of the ball with no thought process.

Mauresmo, well it's her mentality not her talent that is the problem. Power helps, just like in the mens game, but it's far from the only way of succeeding.

Experimentee
09-21-2007, 12:28 PM
Okun is an ass :o

Rogiman
09-21-2007, 12:51 PM
Which is not that difficult :tape:Harder than earning a few rounds with your mother :)

guille&tati4life
09-21-2007, 01:37 PM
He's a former top 100. If a guy who got this high in the ranking is a crap player, why are you watching tennis?

:haha: Given all your statements throughout the year, that's a hell of a strange reaction. How can Ferrer, a guy in the top 10 have "no game"? I think saying Okun is crap is closer to the mark than Ferrer has no game.

Funny from the guy who told the actual 31 in the world is a mediocre pusher ...

Just another example of many ones that could be used.

No way.

When I read some no-ones saying Okun is a crap player and that he should be quite because of that, it makes me cringe, mainly because the probablility of anybody here being a top 100 in their careers is close to nil.

Nadal is a moonballer. That's not tennis and Simon is a mediocre pusher.

It's not because they play anti-tennis that I should praise their achievements.

Fakervic is at another level. He's just a cheater. It's different of being a moonballer/mediocre/etc.

Summing up those loose sentences, being mediocre isn't the same as being crap. Crap players are amateurs like us. You can't call a pro a "crap player". You can maybe say they suck, that they are mediocres, that they don't play tennis, but crap is a bit much.

Well, not for Massu, but it's okay.

I didn't say that he should be quite because of it. I said he was crap, I said he was a moron and then I asked if people cared what he said :shrug: he can say whatever he likes.

trixtah
09-21-2007, 01:43 PM
No way.

When I read some no-ones saying Okun is a crap player and that he should be quite because of that, it makes me cringe, mainly because the probablility of anybody here being a top 100 in their careers is close to nil.

Nadal is a moonballer. That's not tennis and Simon is a mediocre pusher.

It's not because they play anti-tennis that I should praise their achievements.

Fakervic is at another level. He's just a cheater. It's different of being a moonballer/mediocre/etc.

Summing up those loose sentences, being mediocre isn't the same as being crap. Crap players are amateurs like us. You can't call a pro a "crap player". You can maybe say they suck, that they are mediocres, that they don't play tennis, but crap is a bit much.

Well, not for Massu, but it's okay.

I think this is quite moronic even for you...

Black Adam
09-21-2007, 02:12 PM
I understand that female equality should exist which is right in life but I don't think so in sports.Scientific fact:Men and women are different physically. So were is this talk of equal pay coming from. Can the Pro-equal pay come up with better arguments other than female equality?

Seriously on the women's circuit per there is only 10 top quality and exciting matches in the whole season whereas for men you can get that in only a week's play :rolleyes: I can understand why some male players are angry because the level of play on the female circuit isn't worth the money they are being paid. No point asking them to play 5 setters because quality of play will only get worser. If women are going to be paid the same as men, then they have to tremendously improve the quality of their matches not grunting UEs fests and moonballing. They are so few good players on the WTA that the notion of equal pay has no logic.

alfonsojose
09-21-2007, 03:54 PM
Okun is a moron :rolleyes:

Allstar
09-21-2007, 03:56 PM
'They just invented a sport that didn't even exist. '

What a quote :lol:

World Beater
09-21-2007, 04:16 PM
I don't see where you are going with the whole marathon thing. There is no difference in exersion between running a marathon slowly and a half marathon at twice the pace. Women are physically incapable of keeping energy levels up for 5 sets as men do, it would only make the game more dull and tedious if they played 5 setters.

And you can't say that most players on the WTA tour don't train as hard as the men. I can't stress enough that just because men are doing more, doesn't mean that women aren't doing the same in equivalence. That said, I can think of at least 5 female players who put in more off-court work than our flabby number 1.

the game would become more dull and tedious but women can become fitter. Endurance isn't the major factor when it comes to physical differences between women. You should become more familiar with the physiology of women and men before making further comments.

You said women work as hard as men. I am merely refuting that fact. You dont have any evidence to back the claim.

who is the flabby #1 on the men's side? :retard:

is this the same flabby #1 who is fitter than most of the ripped athletes on the men's tour? If you think federer is flabby, you need to get :help: Williams, davenport and ivanovic have more fat combined that the entire top 20 in men's tennis. :haha:

but the point of the matter is that having flab isn't the result of lack of fitness. Having some flab is actually a good thing for endurance sports. Being ripped doesn't mean you are fit either. There is a big difference between lean muscle mass and the muscle that joe schmoe can gain by doing some weights.

anyways, if you are thinking federer is a flabby athlete, then we should just leave it at that. this especially rich coming from a WTA tour supporter that has some pretty hefty women.

World Beater
09-21-2007, 04:19 PM
Exactly. Plus her technical variety on the backhand side is amazing; there is no way she is just a power player with "a little extra something."



:tape: Yes, Henin, who had breathing issues in both Toronto and the USO, who tweaked her shoulder in Toronto and wasn't sure if she could play the final, who's gotten into trouble health-wise partly due to overworking, and who just recently pulled out of an event citing breathing issues even though she's hardly played a dozen tournaments this year, yes, she would greatly benefit from playing best of five. :silly:

my comments were relative to the other women. Are you going to sit here and tell me that williams and davenport are fitter than henin? Or that bartoli is a physical specimen.

whatever. i dont want to get into another discussion of women's tennis with people who clearly have some hidden agendas.

anyways, i do think okun was being a jealous tool and we should leave it at that.

ae wowww
09-21-2007, 05:57 PM
Okun - lad!

lisaplenske
09-21-2007, 07:18 PM
it must be very hard to live being so pissed off about women tennis success:retard:

Or Levy
09-21-2007, 07:40 PM
Okay, well - I read the entire thing in Hebrew.

I felt sorry for him, after reading it, his vent was 90% vent about the state of Tennis in Israel (no tournaments or challangers to play in for easy points - and everything is so far away from everything else, he has to think 10 times before he goes away for tournaments, can't play for coach, etc.) and 10% vent about the women tennis. And he is bitter and sad about his injuries, which I can understand.

Reading the whole thing, I think he is more jealouse of the financial help Shahar had (though he doesn't come out and say it) - but that happened because she had a family who could afford to help her, it isn't like she got any help from Israel.

DrJules
09-21-2007, 07:44 PM
Womens tennis has been very noisy ever since Monica Seles.:lol: :lol: :lol:

My ears have only just recovered.

cobalt60
09-21-2007, 08:25 PM
Okay, well - I read the entire thing in Hebrew.

I felt sorry for him, after reading it, his vent was 90% vent about the state of Tennis in Israel (no tournaments or challangers to play in for easy points - and everything is so far away from everything else, he has to think 10 times before he goes away for tournaments, can't play for coach, etc.) and 10% vent about the women tennis. And he is bitter and sad about his injuries, which I can understand.

Reading the whole thing, I think he is more jealouse of the financial help Shahar had (though he doesn't come out and say it) - but that happened because she had a family who could afford to help her, it isn't like she got any help from Israel.

Thanks for this. I always wonder about the translations of languages into English. And I had a conversation with a player in regards to the Israeli Tennis Federation and how the players were upset about the lack of money and support they've never received. Still does not get Noam off the hook regarding Shahar at all though. Fee ( poster) would have more information I think regarding the federation.

nolop
09-21-2007, 08:29 PM
:yawn: anyway i proved my original point, serenas serve can be compared with average top male players. :D

:woohoo:

ReturnWinner
09-21-2007, 08:36 PM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oTgGWMJLrck ,do u consider that shit as tennis? :sad: :confused:

Snowwy
09-21-2007, 08:38 PM
:yawn: anyway i proved my original point, serenas serve can be compared with average top male players. :D

:woohoo:

And yet she'd win zero on any surface against any top 20 player on the mens circuit

nolop
09-21-2007, 08:40 PM
And yet she'd win zero on any surface against any top 20 player on the mens circuit

ok, but she can serve as hard as ferrer can :drool:

nolop
09-21-2007, 08:42 PM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oTgGWMJLrck ,do u consider that shit as tennis? :sad: :confused:

that was a great match to watch and you know it :D

lisaplenske
09-21-2007, 08:45 PM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oTgGWMJLrck ,do u consider that shit as tennis? :sad: :confused:

its not the type of tennis that I like to watch but its quite entertaining ,much intensity.
DONT think mentennis is producing such an intensity:p

Byrd
09-21-2007, 08:45 PM
Noam Okun has just gained himself a fan.

Lawn Bowlz>WTA

Naide
09-21-2007, 08:46 PM
The day this guy will be more interesting to watch than Graf or Hingis, i'll listen to his BS.

Nathaliia
09-21-2007, 08:49 PM
lol Peer isn't the kind of a pretty girl who gets crowds for her face, she gets attention for her character on court - something that Okun will never have.

And I am far from glorifying WTA.

goldenlox
09-21-2007, 09:00 PM
Okay, well - I read the entire thing in Hebrew.

I felt sorry for him, after reading it, his vent was 90% vent about the state of Tennis in Israel (no tournaments or challangers to play in for easy points - and everything is so far away from everything else, he has to think 10 times before he goes away for tournaments, can't play for coach, etc.) and 10% vent about the women tennis. And he is bitter and sad about his injuries, which I can understand.

Reading the whole thing, I think he is more jealouse of the financial help Shahar had (though he doesn't come out and say it) - but that happened because she had a family who could afford to help her, it isn't like she got any help from Israel.
This is a tough sport if u don't have funding. It's a great sport for women, and the men have to accept it.

rocketassist
09-21-2007, 11:48 PM
Dollies?

Yes, you and Okun can be best buddies. :rolleyes:

Yes, dollies. Dollies with no heart, won't play five sets and get paid so much for boring the living daylights out of people who go to watch real tennis.

World Beater
09-22-2007, 12:03 AM
Being fit isn't just about weight and the ability to move well, or having bulging muscles - being fit also means being able to last three grueling sets, and under those conditions I would honestly favor a Williams over Henin any day.

I personally think that with all the injuries in the women's game these days and the way the top WTA players are hardly even playing tournaments due to injuries or fear of further injury, your idea that they are fit enough to stretch themselves even further by playing best of five in Slams just doesn't fly with me. You can call that a hidden agenda all you want, but I'm just calling it how I see it.

the men suffer from injuries as frequently too. So i really dont see the huge difference here. You could write a book about the number of injuries that safin, haas, kuerten etc have had and what its done to their careers. BTW you seem to confusing durability with fitness. There is a difference. I never said the women were more durable than the men, I said they could be just as fit when it comes to tennis. Women athletes in other sports are far fitter than the females we have in tennis. Thats where i draw my conclusion that they could be fitter.

And well, i guess we will have to disagree. I would take justine in a grueling clay match in 5 sets over a serena williams who comes back with questionable conditioning (then winning the AO).

if you read the last part of my post, you would have seen that i say that having bulging muscles etc isn't evidence for increased fitness.

well, yes the hidden agenda i was referring to was the fact that you had no response for the :retard: remarks that volandrifan made about the flabby #1 when there is no evidence for it. But you had an answer for my remarks about henin being fitter than serena williams which is a debatable subject at best. Go figure.:rolleyes:

GlennMirnyi
09-22-2007, 12:05 AM
It's hard for you only because you are retarded.

Poor young man :sad: Mother Nature was cruel to you :hug:

AnnaK_4ever. Your username says a lot more words could say.

:haha: Given all your statements throughout the year, that's a hell of a strange reaction. How can Ferrer, a guy in the top 10 have "no game"? I think saying Okun is crap is closer to the mark than Ferrer has no game.

No game, just runs and pushes the ball. No big deal.

joyk
09-22-2007, 06:04 AM
"To play for an hour and earn the same amount of money that the men earn after we sweat for five hours is a joke and irrational."
What a joke this guy is,he peaked at 95,he`s got 0 titles and his career record is 35-53.When has he ever played for 5 hours?

Kip
09-22-2007, 06:14 AM
Well, then do something to get the attention that
she and the others get that you don't!

Stop whining and get off your
behind and do some work!

Bashing women's tennis isn't gonna make the
atp or any specific player on the atp any
more popular.

People can say what they will, but fact is that women
get the butts in the seats and snag the endorsement
deals just as much a some even more than the men do.

In this game of dollar and cents, to try
and trivialize the women is absurd and
simply reveals bruised male ego's.

Kip
09-22-2007, 06:30 AM
Yes, dollies. Dollies with no heart, won't play five sets and get paid so much for boring the living daylights out of people who go to watch real tennis.

Hmmm....and yet for such "boring tennis", the "dollies"
still bring the people out to see them time and time again.
Must be doing something right, those "dollies". :cool:


BTW, who was it that decided "dollies" couldn't play best
of 5 sets ala the men at the conception of this sport?

Just as women suppossedly couldn't run marathon's at
the risk of damaging their reproductive organs?

Did the "dollies" hold themselves back then?
Or did they have a "stronger" influence this process?


Also, do the parents of the "dollies" sacrifice less for coahces, equipment, travel, and the like? Did the "dollies" being paid less mean they got cheaper air fare, hotel accomodations, and such compared to men?


And if we shall trivialize, what is more fun to see,
an exciting three setter by dollies or dicks? Or
being able to tank two sets and then deciding that
you want to play?


Hmmm....who knows. ;)

Fedexex
09-22-2007, 07:07 AM
idiot :)

Jaap
09-22-2007, 09:22 AM
Women just bring down the standard of any sport they play in. They should really be banned from playing them, unless they introduce Knitting and ironing as sports.