What Has Happened To The Following 18 Players? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What Has Happened To The Following 18 Players?

TennisShoulder
09-17-2007, 05:17 AM
Hello there,

There are so many top players who I haven't heard about recently. I have compiled a list of them!

Could you please provide information about whether any of these players have officially retired, what injuries these guys are suffering from, when they will be back on tour, or whether there are any other reasons why they are currently off the tour.

Here goes:

Hitcham Arazi - hasn't played since trying to qualify for a challenger in April.

Mark Philippoussis - last played in January in the Hopman Cup.

Taylor Dent - last played in February 2006.

Joachim Johansson - not been in action since January.

Guillermo Coria - Inactive since September 2006.

Gustavo Kuerten - not played since March.

Paradorn Srichaphan - out of action since March.

Andreas Vincinguerra - hasn't played since October 2006.

Cyril Saulnier - not been seen since March.

Irakli Labadze - not played since February.

Gregory Carraz - Inactive since April.

John van Lottum - not been seen since qualifying in July 2006.

Jeff Morrison - Inactive since November 2006.

Todd Reid - not played since qualifying for a futures event in April 2006.

Olivier Mutis - not been seen since qualifying in September 2006.

Markus Hipfl - not been seen since qualifying in October 2006.

Gala Blanco - not played since April 2006.

Jerome Golmard - last seen in qualifying in June 2006.

Maxinefilo
09-17-2007, 05:25 AM
Guillermo Coria... Is still inactive...
One day he will be back again, nobody knows...


Kuerten was playing doubles in US Open

Maxinefilo
09-17-2007, 05:27 AM
Philippoussis plans on ATP return in 2008
NEW YORK: Australian two-time Grand Slam runner-up Mark Philippoussis, idle since undergoing right knee surgery in January, plans to make a return to the ATP Tour next season.

Ten_Isse_Fan
09-17-2007, 05:27 AM
Hitcham Arazi - I'm pretty sure he's retired.

Mark Philippoussis - I'm pretty sure he's banging MILF's or underage's

Taylor Dent - Recently had surgery ? or something. He did some stuff on the web at the US Open. he's either getting ready to come back or retired... Not sure.

Joachim Johansson - He seemed on the way back, beating Nadal late last year in Sweden, playing good, then he retired in Australia but I don't remember why. I hope he comes back, I LOVE him.

Guillermo Coria - Probably something with the shoulder ?

Gustavo Kuerten - Playing for fun when he feels like it but pretty much retired I think. Took him way too long to come back from that injury. :sad:

Paradorn Srichaphan - I have no idea :confused:

Andreas Vincinguerra - Clueless...

Cyril Saulnier - ??

Irakli Labadze - Retired ?

Gregory Carraz - ?? Had good results about 3-4 years ago if I remember correctly

John van Lottum - No idea

Jeff Morrison - The umpire slapper's husband ? Was that him ? (EDIT. : No, that was Jeff TARANGO ;) )

Todd Reid - I don't know ! Didn't even realize he was gone. He was pretty good.

Olivier Mutis - Isn't that the one that's afraid of flying ? He only plays in France or wherever he can drive or boat to. lol So I figure he's somewhere in Europe ;)

Markus Hipfl - No idea.

Gala Blanco - No idea...

Jerome Golmard - sorry..

Action Jackson
09-17-2007, 05:31 AM
Retired

Blanco
Golmard
Morrison
Hipfl had been injured for years, played a few events, just plays league tennis these days.

Kuerten and PimPim are playing Davis Cup this weekend.

- Dent ( back problems)
- The Poo been on a reality TV show and will play next year.
- Vinciguerra will try a comeback in January.
- Srichaphan has wrist problems and is out for the year.
- Labadze : back
- Coria : return date unknown
- Reid : Glandular fever and maybe be working with his father at the tennis courts, though not sure on that.

Action Jackson
09-17-2007, 05:32 AM
Olivier Mutis - Isn't that the one that's afraid of flying ? He only plays in France or wherever he can drive or boat to. lol So I figure he's somewhere in Europe ;)

That is Jerome Haehnel.

Maxinefilo
09-17-2007, 05:32 AM
Coria's problem isn't with his shoulder :sad:
He had plans to play some challengers during the next months but nobody has news..

TennisShoulder
09-17-2007, 05:33 AM
Hitcham Arazi - I'm pretty sure he's retired.

He's announced that he's going to retire at the end of 2007. I was just wondering why he's been inactive since April.

TennisShoulder
09-17-2007, 05:37 AM
Could people also list some other high-profile players (non-retired) who haven't been in action since the French Open - that I have missed out!

Action Jackson
09-17-2007, 05:40 AM
You can find out that for yourself.

TennisShoulder
09-17-2007, 05:41 AM
You can find out that for yourself.

How?

Action Jackson
09-17-2007, 05:43 AM
How?

How did you find out about the 18 players that you posted in the OP?

TennisShoulder
09-17-2007, 05:46 AM
How did you find out about the 18 players that you posted in the OP?

I plucked them out of my head as I have outstanding knowledge of the game of tennis! However, my knowledge isn't outstanding enough to list more than 18.

alex.2812
09-17-2007, 08:18 AM
Cyril Saulnier retired after French Open this year. He played doubles with Seb Grosjean.

Action Jackson
09-17-2007, 08:23 AM
I plucked them out of my head as I have outstanding knowledge of the game of tennis! However, my knowledge isn't outstanding enough to list more than 18.

Hmmm, you almost sound serious.

JMG
09-17-2007, 08:27 AM
Radim Zitko - hasn't played since September 2006

Last year, he improved his ranking from 470 to 250 until September, so I wonder what happened to him.

greatkingrat
09-17-2007, 09:01 AM
Heres a few more players that haven't played for a while

Paul Baccanello - 7/5
Dennis van Scheppingen - 7/5
Marco Chiudinelli - 9/2
Stephane Robert - 12/2
Alan Mackin - 2/4
Edgardo Massa - 12/3

Action Jackson
09-17-2007, 09:03 AM
Chiudinelli and Massa are injured.

Mackin has retired.

radics
09-17-2007, 09:10 AM
I'm not sure if you guys remember him (or anybody cares), but Michel Kratochvil (was ranked 34 in 2002) is also working on his come back to the bigger stages. He's playing challenger tournaments right now and will play in Lubbock, Texas this week.

Jelena
09-17-2007, 09:21 AM
I plucked them out of my head as I have outstanding knowledge of the game of tennis! However, my knowledge isn't outstanding enough to list more than 18.
you don't need outstanding knowledge of tennis,

- but only follow GM regularily, to find out, that
Mackin has retired (I read it here when it happened)
Philippoussis is doing reality tv

- to follow US Open to find out that
Guga played doubles there.

I'm not sure if I confuse him with another Dutch, but I think van Lottum is retired.


If you have such an outstanding knowledge of tennis, you know for sure also the website of Daviscup (www.daviscup.com). There you would have found out that Joachim Johansson is nominated for the Daviscup-team this week. There are the nominations of all teams which are active this week. :angel:

mir
09-17-2007, 01:51 PM
John van Lottum did retire last year, he now comments om matches for dutch eurosport

Bilbo
09-17-2007, 01:59 PM
as long as i don't have to see the faces of the poo and labadze everything is fine for me

fmolinari2005
09-17-2007, 02:58 PM
About Coria: I just read on a brazilian site that next week he will drop out of the ATP rankings! I didnt even know that this was possible. According to this brazilian site, his ranking now is 1496. Next week, he will lose the points of a challenger he played at Polland, so, according to this site, he wont even have a ranking.

Is that possible?!

The link, for those who understands portuguese:

http://www2.uol.com.br/tenisbrasil/diaadia/ult138u32955.htm

Renaud
09-17-2007, 03:07 PM
That is Jerome Haehnel.


Olivier Mutis has the same problems. :)

tennis2tennis
09-17-2007, 03:11 PM
slightly OT WE SHOULD DO A WERE ARE THEY (RANKED) NOW? WITH THE ATP'S 2001 NEW BALLS PLEASE CAMPAIGN

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/janmichaelganbillatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/marianozabaletaatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/tommyhaasatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/Grandslam/rogerfederweatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/arnaudclementatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/maratsafinatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/Lleyton_Hewitt/hewittatp2001singa.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/sebastiengrosjeanatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/nicolaskieferatp2001sing.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/magnusnormanatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/Mark_Philippoussis/markphilippoussisatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/arnauddipasqualeatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/andreasvinciguerraatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/nicolaslapenttiatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/Gustavo_Kuerten/guga2001atp.jpg

Deboogle!.
09-17-2007, 03:20 PM
Dent probably won't play again, and either will have or has just recently had another back surgery....

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_tennisblog/2007/08/taylor-dent-hea.html
Taylor Dent headed back to surgery

NEW YORK -- Sad piece of news on opening day of the U.S. Open. Taylor Dent, whose succession of injuries have kept him off court since February of 2006, is going to need a second back surgery.

He's here working for USA Network and sounding a bit pessimistic about his chance of ever playing professional tennis again.

The first back surgery didn't take and this one has more to do with just giving him a level of personal comfort, of getting rid of pain, than getting him back on court.

Dent is describing his prospects of playing again as "iffy." No date is set for the surgery, but he says it has to happen soon. If it doesn't take, he planning to sell his house in Sarasota (if he can, in these tough mortgage times) and move back to Southern California.

Where? If I wind up in television, closer to L.A., he said. If not, back to the Newport Beach area where he grew up.

Jelena
09-17-2007, 04:33 PM
About Coria: I just read on a brazilian site that next week he will drop out of the ATP rankings! I didnt even know that this was possible. According to this brazilian site, his ranking now is 1496. Next week, he will lose the points of a challenger he played at Polland, so, according to this site, he wont even have a ranking.

Is that possible?!

The link, for those who understands portuguese:

http://www2.uol.com.br/tenisbrasil/diaadia/ult138u32955.htm
sure this is possible, cause the Entry Ranking counts only the points collected in the last 52 weeks. And if you don't play you don't collect points, so you can fall out of the ranking. But you can reenter the Ranking when you collect points again. :)

adee-gee
09-17-2007, 07:27 PM
I miss Coria :sad:

Klaas_nalbandian
09-17-2007, 07:43 PM
just like van lottum , van scheppingen retired this summer.

trisco
09-17-2007, 07:53 PM
What happened to Delgado (Jamie)
I'm guessing he has hung up his racquets and now works for the LTA in a coaching position??
Lot of the Brits seem to do that.. wonder if Henman will ?
Heres a few more players that haven't played for a while


Alan Mackin - 2/4

Fee
09-17-2007, 07:54 PM
slightly OT WE SHOULD DO A WERE ARE THEY (RANKED) NOW? WITH THE ATP'S 2001 NEW BALLS PLEASE CAMPAIGN



Jan-Michael has no ATP points, but still has a protected ranking. He's trying to fix a lower back injury and hopes to get back on court somewhere this fall.

I think Zabaleta retired? but there are other people here who have better information and can be more specific. I know he was injured or ill for a while.

Magnus Norman retired because of the Hingis curse, I mean hip injury that didn't heal after two surgeries (or did he just have one).

Philippoussis is going to play a Seniors event at the end of the season, then hopes to come back in 2008. His knee is healed, but somewhere along the way he picked up a back injury.

DiPasquale retired due to chronic injuries. :sad:

Truc
09-17-2007, 08:13 PM
DiPasquale retired due to chronic injuries. :sad:He was actually fit again when he decided to retire. He doesn't sound particularly bitter or sad in the interviews when he talks about his decision. More fed up with that way of life.
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=4622675&postcount=66

Zabaleta is still playing.

Pixie
09-17-2007, 08:17 PM
Olivier Mutis has the same problems. :)

And both are also some great slackers :smoke:

R.Federer
09-17-2007, 08:20 PM
slightly OT WE SHOULD DO A WERE ARE THEY (RANKED) NOW? WITH THE ATP'S 2001 NEW BALLS PLEASE CAMPAIGN



Thanks for that picture bump. I had forgotten that Gambill and Lapentti were part of the new balls.

Savo
09-17-2007, 08:24 PM
So sad to hear about Dent. I'm gonna miss the Monster...

gaynor
09-17-2007, 08:37 PM
What happened to Delgado (Jamie)
I'm guessing he has hung up his racquets and now works for the LTA in a coaching position??
Lot of the Brits seem to do that.. wonder if Henman will ?

Plays doubles only, was in the top 100 for a while during the summer. British no.4 I think and often plays on teh challenger circuit.

Deboogle!.
09-17-2007, 08:48 PM
I think Zabaleta retired? but there are other people here who have better information and can be more specific. I know he was injured or ill for a while.He won a challenger and made an ATP final earlier this year, and he's played a full season, so I don't think so? :scratch: http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/playeractivity.asp?player=Z073

Jelena
09-17-2007, 09:34 PM
I think Zabaleta retired? but there are other people here who have better information and can be more specific. I know he was injured or ill for a while.

Zabaleta got injured in Monte Carlo QF 2005 on the plantar tendon and had in fall 2005 also a knee injury. He returned in spring 2006 and played mainly Challenger tournaments last year. This year he played ATPs and Challengers. But I think a current #85 (coming back from something #270) is far from being retired.

njnetswill
09-18-2007, 12:01 AM
This thread is a blast from the past. I remember when Coria was my favorite player. :o :lol:

Labadze is one of the most interesting players of recent history. His Wimbledon run at the 2006 Wimbledon was one of the most random things ever.

Winnipeg
09-18-2007, 12:07 AM
when is labadze coming back

Burrow
09-18-2007, 12:15 AM
slightly OT WE SHOULD DO A WERE ARE THEY (RANKED) NOW? WITH THE ATP'S 2001 NEW BALLS PLEASE CAMPAIGN

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/janmichaelganbillatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/marianozabaletaatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/tommyhaasatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/Grandslam/rogerfederweatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/arnaudclementatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/maratsafinatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/Lleyton_Hewitt/hewittatp2001singa.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/sebastiengrosjeanatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/nicolaskieferatp2001sing.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/magnusnormanatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/Mark_Philippoussis/markphilippoussisatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/arnauddipasqualeatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/andreasvinciguerraatp2001.jpghttp://www.tenniscollectibles.net/New_Balls/nicolaslapenttiatp2001.jpg

http://www.tenniscollectibles.net/Gustavo_Kuerten/guga2001atp.jpg


THAT IS SO COOL!

Fee
09-18-2007, 01:45 AM
He was actually fit again when he decided to retire. He doesn't sound particularly bitter or sad in the interviews when he talks about his decision. More fed up with that way of life.
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=4622675&postcount=66

Zabaleta is still playing.

Thanks for the clarification about DiP, and for the answer about Zabaleta (which I posed in the form of a question in the first place). I may have confused him with someone else, but I can't put my finger on the name just yet. :)

TennisShoulder
09-18-2007, 02:32 AM
Just thought of some more players. Have the following players officially retired?:

Todd Larkham - last played March 2004
Sargis Sargsian - July 2006
Franco Squillari - October 2005
Brian Baker - November 2005
Alex Kim - May 2004 (qualifying)
Tomas Behrend - May 2007 (challenger qualifying)
Stefano Pescosolido - May 2006
Ivo Heuberger - September 2006
Jeff Salzenstein - April 2007 (qualifying)
Matias Boeker - July 2005

Maxinefilo
09-18-2007, 05:10 AM
Franco Squillari is retired...
I don't what he is doing now...

jole
09-18-2007, 05:12 AM
PimPim with the worst luck in the world. :sad:

Maxinefilo
09-18-2007, 05:13 AM
Seeing these lists i remember a lot of great players who retired because of injuries :sad:

Sjengster
09-18-2007, 05:37 AM
Good to see a thread mentioning the great Olivier Mutis, the man who beat both Roddick and Nadal on clay back in 2004. I still find it incredible to think that Nadal won six games off Mutis in Palermo in September and was winning the Davis Cup on clay in Spain that same December, before embarking on a record clay winning streak the following spring.

TennisShoulder
09-18-2007, 05:50 AM
Many players announce their retirements (i.e. Agassi, Gimelstob, Arthurs, Popp, Martin, Chang, Ferreira, Sampras, Rios, Schalken, Norman, Enqvist, Escude, Kafelnikov, Rafter, Di Pasquale, Rosset, Kucera, Rusedski, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Pioline, Courier, Costa, Corretja, Korda, Muster, Becker etc.)

But so many others just drift into obscurity! It's quite sad really!

EternalxJourney
09-18-2007, 05:50 AM
Pim Pim is coming back. He got drafted by the Swedish Davis Cup captain after Soderling dropped out.

Pixie
09-18-2007, 06:02 AM
To be more precise about Olivier Mutis, he plays some tournaments here and there in the french circuit called "le circuit national des grands tournois" which gives some money and points (not ATP points). His lawyer's girlfriend is the one to bring money home I guess.

Action Jackson
09-18-2007, 07:30 AM
Just thought of some more players. Have the following players officially retired?:

Todd Larkham - last played March 2004
Sargis Sargsian - July 2006
Franco Squillari - October 2005
Brian Baker - November 2005
Alex Kim - May 2004 (qualifying)
Tomas Behrend - May 2007 (challenger qualifying)
Stefano Pescosolido - May 2006
Ivo Heuberger - September 2006
Jeff Salzenstein - April 2007 (qualifying)
Matias Boeker - July 2005

I thought with your outstanding knowledge you should know this.

Larkham, Sargisan, Pescosolido and Kim have retired.

Behrend is still active.

Bobby
09-18-2007, 07:53 AM
Pim Pim is coming back. He got drafted by the Swedish Davis Cup captain after Soderling dropped out.
But Pim Pim will probably get injured again. It's likely that the shoulder problem will not go away.

koolnorman
09-18-2007, 12:17 PM
What happend to Giles Elseneer, his ranking has dropped loads, he played a few futures in GB, but thats it.

Peoples
09-18-2007, 03:53 PM
PimPim with the worst luck in the world. :sad:

He deserves his luck.

alfonsojose
09-19-2007, 01:19 AM
You can find out that for yourself.

He has a shoulder injury, Yayo :p

TennisShoulder
09-19-2007, 01:34 AM
Juan-Antonio Marin, the great man from Costa Rica with the 0-17 grand slam record, was supposed to have retired, but he was in qualifying action as recently as 21 July. Has he officially hung up his racquet now?

azza
09-19-2007, 01:39 AM
Paul Baccanello has been injured since like May :(:(

jcempire
09-19-2007, 02:09 AM
I saw Dent on US OEPN TV. Looks he works for USA NETWORK, That go to a better job than played tennis. LOL.

TennisShoulder
09-20-2007, 02:29 AM
Taylor Dent's official website will launch soon!

The address is: http://www.taylordent.com/

Polikarpov
09-20-2007, 04:43 AM
How about Nicolas Escude?

Jelena
09-20-2007, 01:21 PM
How about Nicolas Escude?
Nico announced retirement because of chronical hip problems. Better said it got better when he didn't do anything, but when he started harder practice the problems returned. He said himself it's nonsense to try comeback under those circumstances.

Truc
09-20-2007, 01:46 PM
Not the hip, the shoulder. He had surgery in 2004, but he said in interviews last year he was still unable to serve.
He retired in May 2006.

foolish pleasure
09-20-2007, 03:56 PM
joachim johannson re-injured his shoulder last january playing an oz warm-up tournament (i think it was adelaide but i don't remember for sure--he did a cute atp blog during it where he talked about being afraid of kangaroos).

at that point, he had just come back the fall before(and beat nadal) from having been off for about a year and a half from an earlier shoulder injury/surgery.

he plays tomorrow against andy roddick in davis cup and is supposed to play in bangkok too.

he started his own clothing line so hopefully for him if his shoulder gives out again he can still make a living somehow

Deboogle!.
09-20-2007, 04:16 PM
Taylor Dent's official website will launch soon!

The address is: http://www.taylordent.com/Hate to break it to you but that website has had that same design and message up for probably more than 2 years:lol:

Ivo#1Fan
09-20-2007, 07:32 PM
Don't know if anyone remembers him, but another one who's dropped off in the last year is Brian Vahaly. At TMS Indian Wells in 2003 he actually beat Fernando Gonzales, Juan Carlos Ferrero, and Tommy Robredo in consecutive matches. I looks like he's decided to retire due to a shoulder injury.

TennisShoulder
09-22-2007, 04:05 AM
Don't know if anyone remembers him, but another one who's dropped off in the last year is Brian Vahaly. At TMS Indian Wells in 2003 he actually beat Fernando Gonzales, Juan Carlos Ferrero, and Tommy Robredo in consecutive matches. I looks like he's decided to retire due to a shoulder injury.

I was going to mention Brian Vahaly, along with K.J. Hippensteel, but I forgot to mention them. Anyone know what happened to K.J. Hippensteel? Not been seen since February 2005.

Good to see Robert Yim playing again! He took eight months off the tour between October 2006-June 2007 but reached the final of a futures event last week in the United States.

Billabong
09-22-2007, 05:46 AM
Hopefully the Poo will focus and stay healthy next year, otherwise I don't see coming back after another TV show;)..

Nathaliia
09-22-2007, 09:21 AM
Wow, one of the mentioned Radim Zitko was caught on dope!

FSRteam
09-22-2007, 10:05 AM
That is Jerome Haehnel.

mutis too... :)

DhammaTiger
09-23-2007, 12:45 AM
Paradorn pulled out of the Thai open because his wrist has healed but he didn't have enough match practice. actually, he is getting married to Nathalie Glebova, ex Miss Universe, in two months time. So I doubt his mind is on tennis now. However, his brother announced that Paradorn will come back to tennis after the wedding. I think he will play the exhibition match in Hua hin at the end of the year.

TankingTheSet
09-23-2007, 03:37 AM
There's one player who was ranked 36 in August 2005 aged 23. He still has his own forum on MTF but there hasn't been a post about him since about April of 2006. It almost feels like his name is censored.

From wikipedia:


On February 13, 2006 the International Tennis Federation (ITF) announced Beck had tested positive for the steroid clenbuterol during the 2005 Davis Cup semifinal against Argentina. As a consequence, the ITF suspended him from the game for two years until October 31, 2007.[1]


I wonder whether he will try to make a comeback? We'll find out soon.

(For the record, Karol Beck is from Slovakia, and reached an ATP final at St. Petersburg and the 4th round of the US Open in 2004, and won several challengers)

Snowwy
09-23-2007, 03:40 AM
Ive never even heard of this Beck guy.

GustavoM_Fan
09-23-2007, 03:50 AM
I remember this guy Beck beat Coria at DC 2005.. :rolleyes: :haha:

Beck have plans to play again???


what happen to the american player Brian Baker??? :shrug:
I remember he beat Gaudio at UsOpen 2005 1st round :haha: :haha:

Fee
09-23-2007, 04:32 AM
Brian Baker had hip surgery, I believe. Not sure if he will play tennis again, he's been a hard one to find news about.

Maxinefilo
09-23-2007, 04:45 AM
We will have a Beck vs Coria in DC again soon :devil: :rolleyes:

Two years for a player is too much time... Good luck for him, but I think his comeback will be difficult