A couple of ridiculous articles [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

A couple of ridiculous articles

Clara Bow
05-26-2004, 07:32 AM
I'm not trying to be a shit stirrer but I saw these articles and they made me so angry. I thought that only you dear folk at MTF could understand why these articles are so horrible.

http://www.chicagosportsreview.com/chicago/chicagoview.asp?c=109124

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon03/story?id=1573927

Once again - articles that are really dismissive of men's tennis written by columnists who claim to be tennis fans but are obviously completely ignorant about the sprort. Tony from Chicago Sports Review says that he never heard of Coria and just found out that Federer was Swiss? What a stupid tool. I wonder if Tony, Ray, and Sally Jenkins have a special "Uniformend Sports Journalists" three-way thing happening.

Meanwhile- columnists here are calling Kobe Bryant "brave" for being able to score points while traveling between the **** trial and the playoffs. I swear ...another sign that the apocalypse is upon us (to use a header from SI) .

Supersonik
05-26-2004, 07:37 AM
Doesn't give a positive image of American sports journalists being intelligent creatures. They should stick to subjects that they know about, or at least have something of a concept, rubbish jourmalism.

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 07:37 AM
Just reading the Chicago Sports Review article just now, and it seems he is making some valid points, but he concludes the wrong things. His knowledge of the game is 'striking'.

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 07:38 AM
I have had the opportunity to attend all three of these tournaments, and it is great fun

And yet he doesn't know Federer is from Switzerland, that Coría reached the semis in Paris last year and that Nalbandían reached the Wimbledon final?

Supersonik
05-26-2004, 07:42 AM
And yet he doesn't know Federer is from Switzerland, that Coría reached the semis in Paris last year and that Nalbandían reached the Wimbledon final?

The funny thing is if I submitted this written work in a school class, I would be told to rewrite it.

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 07:45 AM
It may be American indifference, but these two young women have received less attention than the first person’s eliminated from “Survivor,” “The Apprentice” and “American Idol” put together.

Wouldn't it be a more powerful argument to say that they reached less attention than the first person eliminated from "Survivor" alone, rather than the combination of three programs? He is weakening his own arguments, which is interesting.

Also he seems to think that dominance in tennis is the equivalent of interesting tennis. I was so bored myself, with the Williams sisters dominating the game and the same goes for Agassi and Sampras. I am actually very much pleased with the game at the moment, as upsets mean exciting matches in every round. Even in the women's game, though less there, fewer bagels are handed out in the early matches (the entire first week used to be a week of victories in no longer than an hour). What is he complaining about? Yes, it is a pity that serve & volley tennis is losing importance in the game, but putting an end to technological development is a very rigid kind of conservationism and might actually lead to the inability to create rackets with which net play regains its position in tennis.

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 07:48 AM
The funny thing is if I submitted this written work in a school class, I would be told to rewrite it.

I know. You should try to find the thread in which Sally Jenkins' article on tennis is discussed. It led to quite a vivid discussion here, with some posters (including me) wrote her an e-mail in which we explained how wrong she was. Only one received an answer, which was quite defensive and far from convincing. This article is not as bad, but it is really striking that a sports journalist doesn't know Coría or Nalbandían and doesn't even know Federer is Swiss. If you don't know anything about the game, then don't write articles on the subject!

Lee
05-26-2004, 08:05 AM
from this

By "Evil" Tony Fernandez

I don't think anyone should take this guy seriously. He claimed he's been to Roland Garros, Wimbleton and USO and he don't know Roger is Swiss and never heard of Coria and Nalbandian, I concluded that he went to these events during McEnroe era. :p

It's the editors' responsibility to weed out reports like this or put a disclaimer on these articles :rolleyes:

From the bottom of ESPN report

Ray Ratto is a columnist with the San Francisco Chronicle and a regular contributor to ESPN.com

Again, sounds to me that the editor has a deadline to make and his star journalist missed the cut off time so he/she just filled up the empty space with garbage.

Lee
05-26-2004, 08:08 AM
And I believe Tony and Ray are called columnists, not journalists. In North America, anyone with half a brain can be a columnist :p

Lee
05-26-2004, 08:13 AM
One more thing that tells us "Evil" Tony Fernandez knows zip about nowadays tennis is that his top 10 players are from the champion race list, not the entry ranking list. ;)

David Kenzie
05-26-2004, 08:36 AM
This is an extract of an email I sent to Evil Fernandez :

Should "casual observers" be writing about tennis ? No i don't think so. When someone has never heard of Coria or Nalbandian (!!!) and doesn't even know Roger Federer's nationality (!!!!) that person should definately NOT be writing articles about tennis.
Just because there is no top american male player on the circuit (besides roddick) doesnt mean you should insult the other players ...

Mrs. B
05-26-2004, 10:15 AM
Gouzo :yeah:

PennyThePenguin
05-26-2004, 10:56 AM
yeah Gouzo!!!!!!

thing is... the editors are just as pathetic as the columnists themselves to allow such crap through...

One more thing that tells us "Evil" Tony Fernandez knows zip about nowadays tennis is that his top 10 players are from the champion race list, not the entry ranking list.


either way he's just showing the world how inadequate (to put it mildly) his tennis knowledge is, Roger's top of the table in BOTH lists and he's just found out where Roger's from...he's a disgrace to all writers!

stuff like that actually makes me like wertheim.

sigmagirl91
05-26-2004, 11:56 AM
Oh, God, where do I start? Oh, the sentence structure. Bad all around. My teacher would definitely have me write that over again-with feeling the next time. And the grammar....do I need to say it?

"Evil" Tony doesn't know that Carlos Moya won the French in 1998, but he says that Moya is unable to "close the deal"? What rock did he crawl out from? Was he actually at that French Open, fun as it was to attend?

The second writer.....oh, god, he needs to find a rock to crawl back under-quickly. Did he forget that Roddick won the US Open or that Hewitt has won Wimbledon before? Or that Hewitt's fiancee has yet to win a slam, but he places HER above Hewitt in popularity (at least that's what I'm reading into his brief comments about Clijsters)? Whatever for that guy....

Sjengster
05-26-2004, 12:09 PM
What I don't understand in these articles is the bizarre conviction that improved racket technology has led to fewer long rallies and points won solely through big serving. Have they watched tennis at all recently? I should think that it's long rallies and baseline points that the McEnroe-led wooden racket brigade are campaigning against, because we get plenty of them nowadays. And yes, his ignorance of the top players is disgusting and is supposedly all the fault of the game for not promoting them enough, when in fact the media that he works for provides such lousy coverage of tennis that it's largely his own profession's fault. I will agree that the tours need better promotion, but it's hardly all down to them.

PennyThePenguin
05-26-2004, 12:10 PM
i think they live in a different time and age.... or maybe a different galaxy altogether.

Sjengster
05-26-2004, 12:12 PM
The second article is simply the kind of Williams-fawning crap that would meet with nods of approval on WTAWorld, and we all know why.

star
05-26-2004, 01:21 PM
Over on WTA world you can read all the time about the wonderful long rallies the women have and the horrible short points the men's matches have because they are all serve. :rolleyes:

Sometimes I think that people just repeat the same thing over and over until they don't even see what is happening before their eyes. Women's tennis with the constant errors and SLAM BLAM sort of tennis actually has shorter points. -- although as I write that Mauresmo was just engaged in a very long rally. :)

Sally Jenkins hates tennis. I remember her writing tennis articles years and years ago where she was decrying tennis and the death of tennis. One of the thin that the U.S. needs for tennis is to have some sports writer who LOVES tennis writing about it. I think Bud Collins is the only one left who does love the sport.

Space Cowgirl
05-26-2004, 01:47 PM
I don't want to be playing devil's advocate here, but let's face it, these articles pretty much represent the views of the 'man on the street', whether tennis fans like it or not. I could ask any of my friends (who don't give a toss about tennis) if they know any players' names, and chances are only Agassi and maybe Federer would be the only ones they know. My younger brother watches the French Open when it is on; the only player he knows of is Ferrero.
Alas, in today's world, where marketing your "product" is everything, tennis is under the radar and of little interest to Joe/Jane Bloggs. It's not a team sport, like football or basketball, so there's less a sense of community, if you like, among fans. Maybe men's tennis needs a Kournikova-type figure to sex it up to generate interest non-fans. There are enough guys on the tour to make this possible! :yeah: Whether this is what the sport needs is another question, of course.

MisterQ
05-26-2004, 01:54 PM
:banghead:

Total incompetence!

If you have the gall to write scathing dismissals of a sport you never watch, you should at least acknowledge your lack of experience in the article.

Shy
05-26-2004, 03:10 PM
How can he say that they are boring when he doesn't even know who they are? :scratch:

Chloe le Bopper
05-26-2004, 04:02 PM
I find it extremely embarassing that any old Joe can be a journalist these days :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
05-26-2004, 04:03 PM
*ahem* Or columnist, as the case may be ;)

The point is that NO publication that takes itself seriously should publish this bullshit, but they all do. It says a lot about the American media, doesn't it? (I can't speak of the international media, but I've read some bullshit out of the British press too ;))

SanTaureau Fan
05-26-2004, 04:24 PM
I don't want to be playing devil's advocate here, but let's face it, these articles pretty much represent the views of the 'man on the street', whether tennis fans like it or not.

Exactly.

This type of "article" by columnist are not meant for tennis fans, it's for the average reader. And they often try to express an opinion that quite a lot of people will agree with.

It's just a fact that the majority of people in the U.S.A. don't know who Coria and Nalbandian are, and don't know Federer nationality. If tennis fans don't like it... Well too bad for them.

And every newspaper contains wrong informations, biased comments, silly articles by columnists; there is no reason to be mad. I mean, one would be mad 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for each wrong informations or questionnable opinions in newspaper.

MisterQ
05-26-2004, 05:51 PM
On ESPN's "Around the Horn" one of the guys was saying that Agassi will still be a factor in the game because he has great ground strokes, and the other players are all serve and don't have ground strokes.

Well, that's a ridiculous characterization of today's game... But I think a lot of people buy into this idea.

TennisLurker
05-26-2004, 06:08 PM
Nowadays is not like the early 90´s when all the top players but agassi and chang, bruguera and muster were big servers :rolleyes:


Even tough I dont like women tennis, I can understand why someone would rather watch the women wimbledon finals in the 90´s over sampras, but tennis is no longer like that, thanks god.

gillian
05-26-2004, 06:43 PM
Ignorance isn't even Tony's biggest problem. He needs a decent editor.

Molto
05-26-2004, 07:00 PM
Hello,

I'm Mario Scalise, an editor at The Chicago Sports Review. I'm not here on the offensive, but here because I respect the passion you guys clearly have towards tennis and I'm always interested in hearing feedback, good and bad (in this case, bad).

What I will say is that Tony Fernandez isn't someone who would talk about a sport he has no interest or knowledge in. Is he as heads up on the game as you people here? Most columnists aren't when you are comparing them to die hard fans of a sport or team, because if they were, chances are their knowledge in others areas won't be as good. A columnist has to be versatile.

As a couple posters here have said though, he is speaking the thoughts of majority. Whether tennis is dying or just boring as he describes it or not, the average person/casual fan, who, like it or not, makes a sport big or small, carries the same stance.

Being a baseball fan and a BIG fan of the Chicago White Sox, I am constantly finding writers who are writing things about the White Sox that is more perception (and negative) than truth, and I get upset just as you guys are, but I also realize that I'm in the minority, and the only way for things to change is if someone who does know and thinks with an open mind speaks out and let the views of the minority be heard.

With that said, I'm giving the chance for one of you guys to make your voice heard. If anyone would like to write a piece on the state of mens tennis and the poor job the American media has done in covering it, feel free to send it to me, with your name, to mario@chisport.com (NOTE: DO NOT MAKE IT A RANT AGAINST THE WRITER, BUT AN INTELLIGENT, WELL-WRITTEN PIECE THAT GETS THE POINT ACROSS OF YOU, THE TENNIS FAN).

Take care,

Mario Scalise

Sjengster
05-26-2004, 07:06 PM
Thank you very much. I'm not sure I'm the person to write it, but I'm just responding to say it's good that the opinions expressed on this board are at least being noted elsewhere. Personally I just wish the media would try and produce articles to generate more enthusiasm for tennis rather than simply ones that reflect the current apathy surrounding the game in America, but it's obviously a difficult issue.

MisterQ
05-26-2004, 07:10 PM
Thank you for that post, Mario. I echo what Sjengster said... I'm also not sure that I will be the person to write it, but thanks for giving the opportunity to one of us.

Lee
05-26-2004, 07:13 PM
I don't want to be playing devil's advocate here, but let's face it, these articles pretty much represent the views of the 'man on the street', whether tennis fans like it or not. I could ask any of my friends (who don't give a toss about tennis) if they know any players' names, and chances are only Agassi and maybe Federer would be the only ones they know. My younger brother watches the French Open when it is on; the only player he knows of is Ferrero.
Alas, in today's world, where marketing your "product" is everything, tennis is under the radar and of little interest to Joe/Jane Bloggs. It's not a team sport, like football or basketball, so there's less a sense of community, if you like, among fans. Maybe men's tennis needs a Kournikova-type figure to sex it up to generate interest non-fans. There are enough guys on the tour to make this possible! :yeah: Whether this is what the sport needs is another question, of course.

I agree with you average Joe or Jane on the street know nothing about tennis or remoting interest in it. But the writer here first claim he loves tennis, a tennis fan and then don't even know about the #1 player. That's the most stupid part.

Baseball is the most watched sports in US and I don't know which team is the top one or which is the best. BUT I'm not going to write a report on how baseball is flourishing or floundering in US.

It's report like this helping to kill tennis. With ill informed view and then declaring the death of tennis, how average Joe/Jane read this on their newspaper and even bother to look into the game.

Molto
05-26-2004, 07:13 PM
Whenever one of our stories appear on a message board (which is quite often excluding recent weeks, which have been slow in content) I read every post and thought on it.

Anyway, I'm all for what you just said. I'd rather the media be made up of specialty writers, niche writers than what it is today, but saying that is a lot easier than actually finding people to do it.

Lee
05-26-2004, 07:14 PM
I will nominate Sjengster to write something about it. Unfortunately, he's quite busy right now.

SanTaureau Fan
05-26-2004, 07:15 PM
Columnists aren't there to promote the sport. It's the job of the ATP.

They are paid to be demagogic. To give a view an average person has.

I really don't see why people get mad. There wasn't anything wrong with the Tony Fernandez article - keeping in mind that.

Lee
05-26-2004, 07:16 PM
Whenever one of our stories appear on a message board (which is quite often excluding recent weeks, which have been slow in content) I read every post and thought on it.

Anyway, I'm all for what you just said. I'd rather the media be made up of specialty writers, niche writers than what it is today, but saying that is a lot easier than actually finding people to do it.

Appreciate your response here, Mario.

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 07:17 PM
If you have the gall to write scathing dismissals of a sport you never watch, you should at least acknowledge your lack of experience in the article.

In a way, admitting not knowing Nalbandían symbolizes not knowing anything about the sport in general.

SanTaureau Fan
05-26-2004, 07:19 PM
"But the writer here first claim he loves tennis, a tennis fan and then don't even know about the #1 player. That's the most stupid part."

It isn't stupid... My sister is a tennis fan and probably don't know who Federer is. A "tennis fan" is not someone who spends 2 hours a day on tennis messageboards. It's just someone who enjoys to watch it sometimes.

"Baseball is the most watched sports in US and I don't know which team is the top one or which is the best. BUT I'm not going to write a report on how baseball is flourishing or floundering in US."

Are you a columnist :confused: What if you are asked to write one?

"It's report like this helping to kill tennis."

It doesn't matter if it helps or not to kill tennis. A columnist isn't paid to promote sports.

Lee
05-26-2004, 07:20 PM
There wasn't anything wrong with the Tony Fernandez article - keeping in mind that.

I believe Sjengster has already pointed out what's wrong in that article but you're entitle to your view.

Molto
05-26-2004, 07:24 PM
"But the writer here first claim he loves tennis, a tennis fan and then don't even know about the #1 player. That's the most stupid part."

It isn't stupid... My sister is a tennis fan and probably don't know who Federer is. A "tennis fan" is not someone who spends 2 hours a day on tennis messageboards. It's just someone who enjoys to watch it sometimes.

"Baseball is the most watched sports in US and I don't know which team is the top one or which is the best. BUT I'm not going to write a report on how baseball is flourishing or floundering in US."

Are you a columnist :confused: What if you are asked to write one?

"It's report like this helping to kill tennis."

It doesn't matter if it helps or not to kill tennis. A columnist isn't paid to promote sports.

my thoughts exactly. thank you

Lee
05-26-2004, 07:25 PM
"But the writer here first claim he loves tennis, a tennis fan and then don't even know about the #1 player. That's the most stupid part."

It isn't stupid... My sister is a tennis fan and probably don't know who Federer is. A "tennis fan" is not someone who spends 2 hours a day on tennis messageboards. It's just someone who enjoys to watch it sometimes.

Thanks for saying she enjoys to watch it sometimes I do watch baseball sometimes or basketball sometimes but I won't say I'm a baseball fan or basketball fan.

"Baseball is the most watched sports in US and I don't know which team is the top one or which is the best. BUT I'm not going to write a report on how baseball is flourishing or floundering in US."

Are you a columnist :confused: What if you are asked to write one?

If I'm asked to write one, I will gracefully decline ;) since I know zip about it.

"It's report like this helping to kill tennis."

It doesn't matter if it helps or not to kill tennis. A columnist isn't paid to promote sports.

I didn't ask columnists to promote tennis.

sigmagirl91
05-26-2004, 07:26 PM
In a way, admitting not knowing Nalbandían symbolizes not knowing anything about the sport in general.

Not knowing Federer or where he is from symbolizes ignorance on the writer's part, since he didn't bother to do any research to begin with.

Sjengster
05-26-2004, 07:27 PM
It may be reflecting the opinion of the public, but all it's doing is helping promote more disinterest and dislike towards tennis. Not to mention the fact that some of the observations about the state of the game are plain wrong, such as the idea that it's entirely serve-dominated and there are no baseline rallies. Heck, you get plenty of them at Wimbledon nowadays, never mind RG.

James27
05-26-2004, 07:31 PM
If this guy knew his stuff, he'd know that the sticks most of the pros use aren't the lightest, most powerful raquets. In fact they are usually heavier, with a smaller head size. Players are stronger then they were years ago and they swing with a lot more speed, its just the way the game evolved.

SanTaureau Fan
05-26-2004, 07:32 PM
It may be reflecting the opinion of the public, but all it's doing is helping promote more disinterest and dislike towards tennis. Not to mention the fact that some of the observations about the state of the game are plain wrong, such as the idea that it's entirely serve-dominated and there are no baseline rallies. Heck, you get plenty of them at Wimbledon nowadays, never mind RG.

Even if it promotes disinterest and dislike towards tennis, it's not a reason why the opinion shouldn't be expressed. So journalists shouldn't expressed their opinion on George W. Bush for example if it will provoke dislike towards him. :scratch: Just an example but you get the point.

And about wrong observations... Right, but then again, it's just an opinion. No one is forced to agree with the person who wrote the article... There are plenty of so-called tennis fans on wtaworld who think the same, and they watch thousands of tennis a year and know the game since many years. That mens tennis is only serve is a myth that many people believe.

Molto
05-26-2004, 07:33 PM
well, guys, I appreciate your views ... I'll be off now. Once again, if anyone would like to write about tennis, just send it over with your name at mario@chisport.com

take care,

Mario

Lee
05-26-2004, 07:38 PM
What we are trying to point out here is, for someone getting paid to write an article about tennis on newspaper, at least do some research on the subject before stating his/her view.

The difference between MTF or WTA posters from a journalist or a columnist is a poster's view is not conceived as an informed or an unbiased while an article on a newspaper is and carried more weight than a post in a message board.

Sjengster
05-26-2004, 07:38 PM
Even if it promotes disinterest and dislike towards tennis, it's not a reason why the opinion shouldn't be expressed. So journalists shouldn't expressed their opinion on George W. Bush for example if it will provoke dislike towards him. :scratch: Just an example but you get the point.

And about wrong observations... Right, but then again, it's just an opinion. No one is forced to agree with the person who wrote the article... There are plenty of so-called tennis fans on wtaworld who think the same, and they watch thousands of tennis a year and know the game since many years. That mens tennis is only serve is a myth that many people believe.

I agree people have a right to their opinion, the problem is there is absolutely no-one around to provide a counter-argument to these negative views. Hell, if I came into money and acquired a Green Card suddenly, I'd do it myself.

It's not just an opinion, it is a demonstrably wrong fact. When people read that men's tennis is all serve they're going to believe it, and journalists like the one quoted in here are directly responsible for that. That is definitely inexcusable.

SanTaureau Fan
05-26-2004, 07:43 PM
What we are trying to point out here is, for someone getting paid to write an article about tennis on newspaper, at least do some research on the subject before stating his/her view.

A columnist is there to give his view, his opinion... It's not about doing research, it's about giving his perspective given what he already knows about the game.

I mean, if the newspaper wanted a view of tennis by an expert, they simply would hire a tennis expert. It isn't what they wanted.

Of course they're going to be wrong err, "fact". Like that mens tennis is all serve. But that's his view. It's wrong, but it's how he sees the game. And it's a fact that a lot of people have that view, even womens tennis fans.

Sjengster
05-26-2004, 07:47 PM
So in other words, freedom of speech means you can get away with writing complete BS under the label of "your opinion". God, I hate that phrase. "It's just my opinion, I'm allowed to have one, aren't I?" Only if you can back it up with facts, I say.

Lee
05-26-2004, 07:48 PM
A columnist is there to give his view, his opinion... It's not about doing research, it's about giving his perspective given what he already knows about the game.

I mean, if the newspaper wanted a view of tennis by an expert, they simply would hire a tennis expert. It isn't what they wanted.

Of course they're going to be wrong err, "fact". Like that mens tennis is all serve. But that's his view. It's wrong, but it's how he sees the game. And it's a fact that a lot of people have that view, even womens tennis fans.

Wow, let's say columnist has the easiest job on earth then. If I write up a report on anything to my boss without putting any effort into checking the facts are correct or my view is appropriate (not politically but informed), I'll be fired right away.

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 08:04 PM
Not knowing Federer or where he is from symbolizes ignorance on the writer's part, since he didn't bother to do any research to begin with.

That is what I said, really :)

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 08:07 PM
God, I hate that phrase

I am an atheist too :p

Really, columnists should only write about what they know in order to be able to make a good statement. They are only doing a poor job if they write on what they know nothing of.

SanTaureau Fan
05-26-2004, 08:17 PM
I mean, when John Weirtheim writes stupid things, I understand that people are mad. He's supposed to be an tennis expert.

But even if a columnist would do extensive research before writing an article (which I don't think is necessary anyway), there's no way to find out the "truth" that mens tennis is not only serve for example, if the person doesn't know. So he has to rely on his partial knowledge of the sport.

Sure, I would love to live in a world where every article written only has right facts with the troof, only the troof. But it's not possible. Each newspaper don't have the money to hire experts each time they want an article on a particular subject. They have a limited number of journalists to write articles.

Sjengster
05-26-2004, 08:18 PM
I am an atheist too :p

Really, columnists should only write about what they know in order to be able to make a good statement. They are only doing a poor job if they write on what they know nothing of.

God isn't a phrase :p and I'm not an atheist.

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 08:22 PM
I think it actually has become a phrase throughout the decades, but I was just joking anyway ;)

Lee
05-26-2004, 08:23 PM
I mean, when John Weirtheim writes stupid things, I understand that people are mad. He's supposed to be an tennis expert.

But even if a columnist would do extensive research before writing an article (which I don't think is necessary anyway), there's no way to find out the "truth" that mens tennis is not only serve for example, if the person doesn't know. So he has to rely on his partial knowledge of the sport.

Sure, I would love to live in a world where every article written only has right facts with the troof, only the troof. But it's not possible. Each newspaper don't have the money to hire experts each time they want an article on a particular subject. They have a limited number of journalists to write articles.

That's true but doesn't mean people reading these articles should not demand better or just accept these as life. If nobody comment or rebuke these articles, the qualities will get worse and worse and columnists, journalists and editors do not think they need to improve their products to consumers.

Sjengster
05-26-2004, 08:24 PM
I think it actually has become a phrase throughout the decades, but I was just joking anyway ;)

So I gathered. ;)

Shy
05-26-2004, 08:24 PM
In a way, admitting not knowing Nalbandían symbolizes not knowing anything about the sport in general.
If you know Federer, you should know David since they always end up being in the same draws.

SanTaureau Fan
05-26-2004, 08:32 PM
That's true but doesn't mean people reading these articles should not demand better or just accept these as life. If nobody comment or rebuke these articles, the qualities will get worse and worse and columnists, journalists and editors do not think they need to improve their products to consumers.

Sure... I mean I understand that people want to answer to what some journalists have to say, it's natural.

Though if you're not satisfied by a product, you always have the choice to not buy it or don't give attention to it. It can be irritating if you read something you feel is wrong, even if it's in a column, but wrong informations are everywhere... History books are full of innacurate facts, so are newspapers or any other kind of publication. It's the reality of life.

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 08:36 PM
Why did you quote me, Shy? You aren't saying anything I didn't. Not in particular anyway. I just stated that the author was a bit short-sighted on this subject.

Shy
05-26-2004, 08:40 PM
I just want to add from it. It wasn't toward you.:awww:

CooCooCachoo
05-26-2004, 08:54 PM
Ah, lol. Thought it was ;)

David Kenzie
05-26-2004, 09:03 PM
Just wanted to share the reply I got from Fernandez. We can give TheChicagoPost credit for listening to their readers and taking time to respond and even post on this forum.

Thanks for reading and responding.

I have followed tennis for three decades and I don't know who these guys
are. In the past, male tennis players had some personality like Connors or
MacEnroe. Even those without a personality, like Sampras and Borg and
Lendl had rivalries or weaknesses (French Open, U.S. Open, and Wimbledon,
respectively) that made them compelling to watch.

I think the point that I was making is that the American press has not done
a good job of covering the other players. Also, I don't think that the
tennis establishment has tried to promote the new players, counting on the
old system where a player would get endorsements and commercials
to publicize themselves.

Never once did I say that these weren't good players, just that they are
unknown. (I also think that the technology part also hurts by eliminating
rallies.)

Tony

LCeh
05-26-2004, 09:15 PM
I think the point that I was making is that the American press has not done
a good job of covering the other players. Also, I don't think that the
tennis establishment has tried to promote the new players, counting on the
old system where a player would get endorsements and commercials
to publicize themselves.

That I agree with, but anyone who follows tennis for one bit would know about Federer. If you watch any one of his matches and you would hear commentators call him "The swiss".

David Kenzie
05-26-2004, 09:45 PM
The question is how many times has Federer played Roddick in the last couple years as that would be the only occasion he might have watched a match with Rogi playing.

Chloe le Bopper
05-26-2004, 09:51 PM
Exactly.

This type of "article" by columnist are not meant for tennis fans, it's for the average reader. And they often try to express an opinion that quite a lot of people will agree with.

It's just a fact that the majority of people in the U.S.A. don't know who Coria and Nalbandian are, and don't know Federer nationality. If tennis fans don't like it... Well too bad for them.

And every newspaper contains wrong informations, biased comments, silly articles by columnists; there is no reason to be mad. I mean, one would be mad 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for each wrong informations or questionnable opinions in newspaper.
Perhaps you are okay with the media printing lies or having dumbass columnists write about topics they know nothing about, and having a negative influence on the opinion of their readers... but I am not ;)

Chloe le Bopper
05-26-2004, 09:54 PM
Just wanted to share the reply I got from Fernandez. We can give TheChicagoPost credit for listening to their readers and taking time to respond and even post on this forum.
Thanks for sharing. Yes, credit to him for responding to quickly, or at all for that matter.

Still... for somebody who claims that he's been following the sport for three decades, he's embarassing himself by admitting to not knowing who some key top ten players are. You can not have watched Wimbledon in 2002 without having heard of Nalbandian at some point, and you can not have watched Roland Garros last year or the USO without having heard of Coria. Coria played Agassi in THREE slams last year. THREE. It's a disgrace that this guy still says he hasn't heard of him, because if you get espn, you got those matches.

J. Corwin
05-26-2004, 09:58 PM
"Evil Tony" needs to get his facts straight. What a disgrace.

SanTaureau Fan
05-26-2004, 10:30 PM
Perhaps you are okay with the media printing lies or having dumbass columnists write about topics they know nothing about, and having a negative influence on the opinion of their readers... but I am not ;)

It's not a question to be "ok" by it... I've never said I was ok with medias printing lies. But I'm realistic in my expectations when I read a columnist, keeping in mind that person has to be versatile and can't be an expert in everything he writes.

And I expect readers to be critical. We can't take for gospel truth everything we read, wrong informations are everywhere.

I do think it's bad that he never heard of Nalbandian LOL, but it does reflect the view the average reader. He might actually exactly know who Coria and Nalbandian are, but lied to make his point, that's also another possibility.

PennyThePenguin
05-27-2004, 02:41 AM
I think the point that I was making is that the American press has not done
a good job of covering the other players. Also, I don't think that the
tennis establishment has tried to promote the new players, counting on the
old system where a player would get endorsements and commercials
to publicize themselves.

he's not exactly helping much is he?

sigmagirl91
05-27-2004, 03:10 AM
Maybe men's tennis needs a Kournikova-type figure to sex it up to generate interest non-fans. There are enough guys on the tour to make this possible! :yeah: Whether this is what the sport needs is another question, of course.

Maybe it does, spacecadet, but I don't think the majority of men will go for it.

While most men would ogle all day at Anna K. and comment on how beautiful she is, they are quite "sensitive", I find, when women make similar comments about their favorite male player.

sigmagirl91
05-27-2004, 03:13 AM
Just wanted to share the reply I got from Fernandez. We can give TheChicagoPost credit for listening to their readers and taking time to respond and even post on this forum.

And, gauzo, judging by his reply, he doesn't want to know who those other players are either. He is quite content in his "ignorance is bliss" attitude.

Clara Bow
05-27-2004, 05:29 AM
An intersting somewhat relevant side note to these articles... I got my new issue of Vogue today and it has a profile on Roger Federer. And it is accurate. I do think it is neat that they had Federer in Vogue as they don't really profile sports figures that often. Although acutally one of the last ones I remember was of James Blake a year or so ago.

So maybe the fashion magazine writers can be the ones to salvage the state of sports writers and tennis in the US. ;)

Lee
05-27-2004, 05:33 AM
An intersting somewhat relevant side note to these articles... I got my new issue of Vogue today and it has a profile on Roger Federer. And it is accurate. I do think it is neat that they had Federer in Vogue as they don't really profile sports figures that often. Although acutally one of the last ones I remember was of James Blake a year or so ago.

So maybe the fashion magazine writers can be the ones to salvage the state of sports writers and tennis in the US. ;)

The columnists and editors can always have the excuse that they don't have the budget like Vogue ;)

CooCooCachoo
05-27-2004, 06:27 AM
Never once did I say that these weren't good players, just that they are
unknown.

LOL

Even tennis dimwits I know know who they are.

Zetlandsk
05-27-2004, 06:30 AM
He has been going to these tournaments consistently and didn't know Roger Federer was Swiss, well he has his head somewhere in the clouds of ignorance. If he was American, then he would wax lyrical about what a great player he was.

Poorly written articles and doesn't give the good sports journalists any credibility, when there are jabronis like this writing and getting this tripe published.

Space Cowgirl
05-27-2004, 11:42 AM
Maybe it does, spacecadet, but I don't think the majority of men will go for it.

While most men would ogle all day at Anna K. and comment on how beautiful she is, they are quite "sensitive", I find, when women make similar comments about their favorite male player.


I see that point, sigmagirl91, which is why I wondered if the ATP would go in that direction. However, take the footballer (soccer player for you Americans ;) ) David Beckham. He is a sporting icon in Europe and Asia, and the fact that he can kick a ball has very little to do with it. I don't particularly like the guy (not least because of his awful wife), but he has made millions from marketing himself as a brand. Surely tennis could learn something from this.
:confused:

Chloe le Bopper
05-27-2004, 12:07 PM
Football is far more popular than tennis

Chloe le Bopper
05-27-2004, 12:09 PM
^^ Besides... that is exactly what the Americans are trying to do with Roddick, with limited success.

sigmagirl91
05-27-2004, 12:14 PM
Americans, as stated many times before, do not place a high priority on sports like soccer and tennis-which is why Beckham is not a household name here, and why Roddick and Agassi have met with limited marketing success. Baseball, basketball, and football are the sports of choice here, and if you don't play any of those three, then you're pretty much SOL, as far as marketing and publicity go.