*SHOCKING* - USA will execute a man for the hell of it [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

*SHOCKING* - USA will execute a man for the hell of it

Sofonda Cox
08-14-2007, 08:37 AM
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/actnow?bid=4&pid=221949

Kenneth Foster's Fate

In less than three weeks Kenneth Foster, an African American man sentenced to death in 1997 for the murder of Michael LaHood, is scheduled to be executed in Texas.

LaHood's actual killer, Mauriceo Brown, was executed in 2006. Foster, who was in a car about 100 yards from the crime when it was committed, was convicted under the controversial Texas state "law of parties", under which the distinction between principal actor and accomplice in a crime is abolished. The law can impose the death penalty on anybody involved in a crime where a murder occurred. In Foster's case he was driving a car with three passengers, one of whom, Brown, left the car, got into an altercation and shot LaHood dead. Texas is the only state that applies this statute in capital cases, making it the only place in the United States where a person can be factually innocent of murder and still face the death penalty.

Foster maintains that he did not know that Brown would either rob or kill LaHood. According to an Amnesty International investigation, there is evidence not heard at trial that the murder was an unplanned act committed by Brown, as the latter himself claimed before his execution.

In 2005, a federal district judge found a "fundamental constitutional defect in Foster's sentence" and ruled that Foster's jury had not been asked to determine if he had any intent to kill LaHood, and that this failure represented a misapplication of the law. However, the state of Texas appealed to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which overturned the decision.

The crazy thing about this case is that no one argues that Foster killed the victim. As the Fort Worth Star-Telegram's award-winning columnist Bob Ray Sanders wrote, the case "is further proof of how cruel, capricious, unjust and utterly insane our death penalty laws have become....Because of this tainted system, whether you believe in capital punishment or not, a man who did not plan or commit a murder will die August 30 unless somebody -- a judge, the Board of Pardons and Paroles and/or the governor-- has the heart and the guts to stop it."


:help:

Eveyone please go to http://www.freekenneth.com and post a message of support in the guestbook, or better still write to members of the Texas Legislature - you can do this on his homepage.

Johnny Groove
08-14-2007, 08:55 AM
What a total joke :o

Sometimes my country is just :retard:

martine2
08-14-2007, 08:58 AM
This is terrible :sad:

Neely
08-14-2007, 09:10 AM
The danger of killing somebody innocent who did not do what he is accused of is the main reason why I am generally against the death penalty, and not the whining about how cruel it is.

Carlita
08-14-2007, 09:18 AM
:sad:

Iza
08-14-2007, 10:12 AM
this is fucking incredible :speakles: :eek: :bolt: :retard:

Winston's Human
08-14-2007, 01:05 PM
LaHood's actual killer, Mauriceo Brown, was executed in 2006. Foster, who was in a car about 100 yards from the crime when it was committed, was convicted under the controversial Texas state "law of parties", under which the distinction between principal actor and accomplice in a crime is abolished. The law can impose the death penalty on anybody involved in a crime where a murder occurred. In Foster's case he was driving a car with three passengers, one of whom, Brown, left the car, got into an altercation and shot LaHood dead. Texas is the only state that applies this statute in capital cases, making it the only place in the United States where a person can be factually innocent of murder and still face the death penalty.


This article inaccurately describes the law regarding the death penalty and parties. The State cannot impose the death penalty on anyone involved in a crime where a murder occurs.

First, not all murders qualify for the death penalty. They must meet the statutory special circumstances. Here, the murder occurred in the course of a robbery.

Second, under Texas law, when seeking the death penalty where the defendant is convicted as a party, the State must prove that (1) the defendant actually caused the deceased's death; (2) the defendant intended to kill the deceased or another; or (3) the defendant should have anticipated that a human life would be taken. Foster's mere presence would not qualify him for a death sentence.

Sofonda Cox
08-14-2007, 01:36 PM
This article inaccurately describes the law regarding the death penalty and parties. The State cannot impose the death penalty on anyone involved in a crime where a murder occurs.

First, not all murders qualify for the death penalty. They must meet the statutory special circumstances. Here, the murder occurred in the course of a robbery.

Second, under Texas law, when seeking the death penalty where the defendant is convicted as a party, the State must prove that (1) the defendant actually caused the deceased's death; (2) the defendant intended to kill the deceased or another; or (3) the defendant should have anticipated that a human life would be taken. Foster's mere presence would not qualify him for a death sentence.

The point is that he will be executed in 3 weeks! He did not pull the guns trigger and had no idea his 'friend' even intended to kill someone - whether the article accuratly describes the law correctly or not this INNOCENT man will die for basically being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

safinaferrero
08-14-2007, 03:06 PM
Unfortunately not the first time they commit this kind of "mistake" :sad:&:(

Zirconek
08-14-2007, 03:12 PM
It's not shocking since it happens in the USA, especially in Texas.

Winston's Human
08-14-2007, 03:58 PM
The point is that he will be executed in 3 weeks! He did not pull the guns trigger and had no idea his 'friend' even intended to kill someone - whether the article accuratly describes the law correctly or not this INNOCENT man will die for basically being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Foster was more than just the wrong man at the wrong time. Foster, Brown and two other men had been engaged in a series of armed robberies all evening where they had split the proceeds between the four of them. Foster was the driver who followed Lahood's friend and parked his car in front of Lahood's house. Foster drove Brown away from the crime scene after Lahood's murder. Also, Foster was aware that Brown had stuck his gun in the faces of earlier robbery victims.

While I can understand the argument that someone who is not the actual shooter should not be executed, to call Foster innocent or at the wrong place at the wrong time is quite a stretch.

kristanmichelle
08-14-2007, 04:04 PM
Foster was more than just the wrong man at the wrong time. Foster, Brown and two other men had been engaged in a series of armed robberies all evening where they had split the proceeds between the four of them. Foster was the driver who followed Lahood's friend and parked his car in front of Lahood's house. Foster drove Brown away from the crime scene after Lahood's murder. Also, Foster was aware that Brown had stuck his gun in the faces of earlier robbery victims.

While I can understand the argument that someone who is not the actual shooter should not be executed, to call Foster innocent or at the wrong place at the wrong time is quite a stretch.

Wow. The original article leaves out a lot of the story.

Lee
08-14-2007, 04:17 PM
Wow. The original article leaves out a lot of the story.

Which is not surprising because it's not really a news article.

This world hasn't changed in the way that people still point fingers without getting all the facts.

I don't support capital punishment but on the same time, I do not support the saying that the person pulled the trigger commit a bigger crime than the mastermind behind the crime. It is possible that Foster was the mastermind behind the robberies and Brown was just the henchman.

Sofonda Cox
08-14-2007, 04:44 PM
Which is not surprising because it's not really a news article.

This world hasn't changed in the way that people still point fingers without getting all the facts.

I don't support capital punishment but on the same time, I do not support the saying that the person pulled the trigger commit a bigger crime than the mastermind behind the crime. It is possible that Foster was the mastermind behind the robberies and Brown was just the henchman.

i did the best i could with the information availble.



And so what if they went around town doing a load of robberies before hand??????? Totally besides the point as it's not what the article is about - i frankly couldn't care less what the article missed out - there was evidence he had no idea his friend was planning that crime, he should not even be in prison for murder, robbery - yes, murder - no

Lee
08-14-2007, 04:58 PM
i did the best i could with the information availble.



And so what if they went around town doing a load of robberies before hand??????? Totally besides the point as it's not what the article is about - i frankly couldn't care less what the article missed out - there was evidence he had no idea his friend was planning that crime, he should not even be in prison for murder, robbery - yes, murder - no

What's the evidence other than the blogger's word? Have you read the court documents? I didn't so I won't say there is or isn't evidence.

But I won't buy the blogger's words because it's EVIDENT that something were missing from the partition so I have to take the blogger has a different agenda.

I am also not saying the guy was not guilty. I don't have enough information on this case. And I won't spend the time on researching it either.

If you use a lethal weapon to commit a crime, even you have no intention to harm or kill someone, if the crime results in the death of the victim, it's murder.

tangerine_dream
08-14-2007, 05:06 PM
Foster was more than just the wrong man at the wrong time. Foster, Brown and two other men had been engaged in a series of armed robberies all evening where they had split the proceeds between the four of them. Foster was the driver who followed Lahood's friend and parked his car in front of Lahood's house. Foster drove Brown away from the crime scene after Lahood's murder. Also, Foster was aware that Brown had stuck his gun in the faces of earlier robbery victims.

While I can understand the argument that someone who is not the actual shooter should not be executed, to call Foster innocent or at the wrong place at the wrong time is quite a stretch.
Thanks for giving us the backstory, WH. :wavey: There's always more to a story like this than what people initially read.

kristanmichelle
08-14-2007, 05:06 PM
Foster was more than just the wrong man at the wrong time. Foster, Brown and two other men had been engaged in a series of armed robberies all evening where they had split the proceeds between the four of them. Foster was the driver who followed Lahood's friend and parked his car in front of Lahood's house. Foster drove Brown away from the crime scene after Lahood's murder. Also, Foster was aware that Brown had stuck his gun in the faces of earlier robbery victims.


Thanks, Winston for doing the research. :)

Aside from the death penalty argument, it seems that Foster was not the innocent bystander, as previously pointed out. You cannot separate actions from their context. He was involved in dangerous, illegal behavior and seems to have had more than reasonable warning that his associate was capable of killing someone. They probably said a lot of things, but it stands to reason that people capable of armed robbery are also capable of lying.

If you want to protest capital punishment, fine (though you will probably not get desired results by using a tennis forum), but it seems impossible to reasonably protest on the basis of his innocence.

Sofonda Cox
08-14-2007, 05:06 PM
What's the evidence other than the blogger's word? Have you read the court documents? I didn't so I won't say there is or isn't evidence.

But I won't buy the blogger's words because it's EVIDENT that something were missing from the partition so I have to take the blogger has a different agenda.

I am also not saying the guy was not guilty. I don't have enough information on this case. And I won't spend the time on researching it either.

If you use a lethal weapon to commit a crime, even you have no intention to harm or kill someone, if the crime results in the death of the victim, it's murder.

obviously not :rolleyes:

TMJordan
08-14-2007, 05:08 PM
Fuck I hate the United States.

Winston's Human
08-14-2007, 05:37 PM
I forgot to source myself. I took the facts from the opinion by the Fifth Circuit:

Foster v. Quarterman, 466 F.3d 359 (5th Cir. 2006).

Andre♥
08-14-2007, 05:45 PM
He could have done the sickest thing ever, I would still support him by fighting against death penalty.

Death penalty is just wrong. European countries don't have it for decades, some countries even for centuries. Portugal doesn't have death penalty since 1867.

How much time does the USA need to abolish death penalty? One more century?

EDIT: Portugal was the first country in Europe to abolish death penalty. This is one of the main reasons why I love my country.

tangerine_dream
08-14-2007, 06:06 PM
How much time does the USA need to abolish death penalty? One more century?
Why should the US abolish the death penalty just because Europe is doing it? We are much bigger as a country than any of the countries in Europe. Our laws, our culture, and our problems are completely different from yours. The death penalty makes perfect sense for such a large nation that has to deal with so many heinous crimes against its citizens. I see nothing wrong with the death penalty for violent crimes. If you break the laws of society then you do not deserve to be a part of said society.

I wonder how many of you socialists screamed for the death penalty when those two kids who viciously murdered Jamie Bulger in England several years ago were then allowed to go free and live their lives in peace and anonymity?

rocketassist
08-14-2007, 06:31 PM
Why should the US abolish the death penalty just because Europe is doing it? We are much bigger as a country than any of the countries in Europe. Our laws, our culture, and our problems are completely different from yours. The death penalty makes perfect sense for such a large nation that has to deal with so many heinous crimes against its citizens. I see nothing wrong with the death penalty for violent crimes. If you break the laws of society then you do not deserve to be a part of said society.

I wonder how many of you socialists screamed for the death penalty when those two kids who viciously murdered Jamie Bulger in England several years ago were then allowed to go free and live their lives in peace and anonymity?

That crime was horrendous but their ages played a part and it shouldn't have. They knew what they were doing, little menacing scallywags to society.

Sofonda Cox
08-14-2007, 06:40 PM
Why should the US abolish the death penalty just because Europe is doing it? We are much bigger as a country than any of the countries in Europe. Our laws, our culture, and our problems are completely different from yours. The death penalty makes perfect sense for such a large nation that has to deal with so many heinous crimes against its citizens. I see nothing wrong with the death penalty for violent crimes. If you break the laws of society then you do not deserve to be a part of said society.

I wonder how many of you socialists screamed for the death penalty when those two kids who viciously murdered Jamie Bulger in England several years ago were then allowed to go free and live their lives in peace and anonymity?

as far as i'm aware they are still in jail - but when they do get out they will be booted out to Australia probably where most of the British crap ends up :tape:

Winston's Human
08-14-2007, 06:53 PM
The criminal justice system and racism go hand in hand in the United States. If he were white he probably would have spent a couple of years in jail max (if that). Gotta love America. :hearts: :D

This homicide occurred in Texas. I feel pretty confident that they still would have sought the death penalty had Foster been white.

Julio1974
08-14-2007, 07:28 PM
He could have done the sickest thing ever, I would still support him by fighting against death penalty.

Death penalty is just wrong. European countries don't have it for decades, some countries even for centuries. Portugal doesn't have death penalty since 1867.

How much time does the USA need to abolish death penalty? One more century?

EDIT: Portugal was the first country in Europe to abolish death penalty. This is one of the main reasons why I love my country.

Some Europeans are funny. WHen the US applies the death penalty they are just a bunch of uncivilized people. When in a third wold country a woman is stoned to death is called "multiculturalism" and don't dare to criticize it because you'll be guily of hate speech.

PS: I'm against the death penalty. Too many mistakes and too much discriminatory application against minorities.

Chloe le Bopper
08-14-2007, 07:30 PM
Why should the US abolish the death penalty just because Europe is doing it? We are much bigger as a country than any of the countries in Europe. Our laws, our culture, and our problems are completely different from yours. The death penalty makes perfect sense for such a large nation that has to deal with so many heinous crimes against its citizens. I see nothing wrong with the death penalty for violent crimes. If you break the laws of society then you do not deserve to be a part of said society.

I wonder how many of you socialists screamed for the death penalty when those two kids who viciously murdered Jamie Bulger in England several years ago were then allowed to go free and live their lives in peace and anonymity?


Not everybody who opposes the death penalty is a socialist, dear. Even if they were, I'm not sure that I understand why people still think that "socialist" is an insult.

Chloe le Bopper
08-14-2007, 07:33 PM
as far as i'm aware they are still in jail - but when they do get out they will be booted out to Australia probably where most of the British crap ends up :tape:
They're not in jail. Not only are they not in jail, they were granted new identities. Regardless, that was a really poor example either way.

Richard_from_Cal
08-14-2007, 08:43 PM
this is fucking incredible :speakles: :eek: :bolt: :retard:
Not so..

The state still follows me around.

Anyway, on topic:

In California, Statutory **** (sex, even WITH consent, with a minor <think 17 or less>) in my era, was a capital crime. Granted, I'm 50, now...

...and the felony-murder rule, applied: ...commit a felony, and a death occurs as a result, you are guilty of murder....which are disjoint thoughts. Not associating **** with the Felony-Murder rule.

guille&tati4life
08-14-2007, 10:48 PM
I can't believe i'm posting this, but...
Safin-rules-no1 :worship:

You are spot on here. This is a ludicrous law as far as i can tell. The death penalty itself is an awful way of dealing with murder in any event. Murdering someone because they murdered someone else is a bizarre concept, a state should not be allowed to kill. However, to give the death penalty to someone who committed robbery and knew his mate had a gun is absolutely disgraceful.

Baghdatis72
08-14-2007, 11:01 PM
:help: :tape: :help:

Eebex
08-14-2007, 11:41 PM
Fuck death penalty.
I hope they wont let Kenneth die, he is innocent.

Scotso
08-15-2007, 04:04 AM
Fuck I hate the United States.

It feels the same way about you.

Sofonda Cox
08-15-2007, 09:23 AM
I can't believe i'm posting this, but...
Safin-rules-no1 :worship:

You are spot on here. This is a ludicrous law as far as i can tell. The death penalty itself is an awful way of dealing with murder in any event. Murdering someone because they murdered someone else is a bizarre concept, a state should not be allowed to kill. However, to give the death penalty to someone who committed robbery and knew his mate had a gun is absolutely disgraceful.

Exactly!! But some people on here seem hell bent on directing this thread away from the real point.........he did not murder anyone, so shouldn't be executed - innocent!!!!!!!

Lee
08-15-2007, 06:33 PM
Exactly!! But some people on here seem hell bent on directing this thread away from the real point.........he did not murder anyone, so shouldn't be executed - innocent!!!!!!!

No, it's because the first post sent a totally mixed, wrapped and unclear image of what's the problem.

You can't use the word innocent, the guy IS a criminal, and a seasoned one. You can only say the crime doesn't deserve this punishment.

Your original post makes it like a capital punishment debate which somehow, your above post (underlined part) contradict yourself.

Chloe le Bopper
08-16-2007, 12:02 AM
Exactly!! But some people on here seem hell bent on directing this thread away from the real point.........he did not murder anyone, so shouldn't be executed - innocent!!!!!!!

He's innocent according to your definitions, but he's apparently not innocent according to the laws of the region where he was at the time of the murder.

You can effectively make arguments against the death penalty. I'm not sure that you can effectively argue that this man is "innocent" of what he's been charged with, according to how the law where the crime took place is defined.

rocketassist
08-16-2007, 01:03 AM
as far as i'm aware they are still in jail - but when they do get out they will be booted out to Australia probably where most of the British crap ends up :tape:

They've been out for years.

Sofonda Cox
08-16-2007, 07:42 AM
No, it's because the first post sent a totally mixed, wrapped and unclear image of what's the problem.

You can't use the word innocent, the guy IS a criminal, and a seasoned one. You can only say the crime doesn't deserve this punishment.

Your original post makes it like a capital punishment debate which somehow, your above post (underlined part) contradict yourself.

He is innocent of the crime of murder for which he is being executed for - i never said he was innocent of robbery etc... And YES i can use the word innocent in that case - as previously stated i couldn't care less what other crimes he has committed, he did not murder anyone. And i don't see how my original post makes it sound like a capital punisment debate, it morphed into it through other people turning it into such a thread - America can do whatever barbaric/backwards things its wants to it's real murderers - but not to one who didn't murder.

Castafiore
08-16-2007, 09:16 AM
Why should the US abolish the death penalty just because Europe is doing it? We are much bigger as a country than any of the countries in Europe.
Out of genuine interest: according to you, what does the size of a country have to do with the death penalty being abolished or not and the effectiveness in dealing with crime?

Besides, the laws on death penalty differ from state to state in the US, correct? So, it's not a federal issue.

guille&tati4life
08-16-2007, 01:12 PM
He's innocent according to your definitions, but he's apparently not innocent according to the laws of the region where he was at the time of the murder.

You can effectively make arguments against the death penalty. I'm not sure that you can effectively argue that this man is "innocent" of what he's been charged with, according to how the law where the crime took place is defined.

Well, to examine this properly, the fact that they had committed robbery has to be taken out of the equation as it surely did not have anything to do with the murder. Then the question becomes is someone guilty of murder if they don't report or stop someone who is walking around with a gun. Now, if the guy is such a lose cannon that he is an obvious danger with the weapon, then trying to get a gun off him would endanger your own life. Therefore, surely the law cannot demand that of you. I believe that you are never legally bound to phone the police (even if you have seen a man with a gun, but perhaps i'm wrong). Therefore, what i can't understand is why he is being charged with murder.
You may be quite right, maybe the laws where the crime took place do say that this man is guilty of murder and maybe it should (by their laws) lead to the death penalty. If that is the case then i think the legal system of Texas is totally disgraceful, and this is the point that the thread-maker is making. Not that by their law the man shouldn't be given the death penalty, but rather that the law itself is a bad one.

LoveFifteen
08-16-2007, 04:35 PM
I love how some Europeans seethe with self-righteous rage against the USA because some of its states (namely Texas) allow the death penalty in very rare cases, yet they don't seem to bat an eye at the outrageously frequent use of the death penalty in much of the Middle East, South Asia and parts of Africa. News like this invokes the response, "I hate the USA," but the 102 executions performed so far this year in Saudi Arabia haven't illicited one "I hate Saudi Arabia" thread. :rolleyes:

Where is the outrage against other countries that employ the death penalty? Why can I not imagine a Portuguese man smugly saying to a Chinese man that he is so proud to be from Portugal because his country has abolished the death penalty, but saying that to an American is basically the new black?!

Anyway, I'm not a big supporter of the death penalty, but in some cases, I support it, e.g. the execution of Timothy McVeigh. Most executions in the USA take place in Texas because the death penalty is decided by state.

=====================================

According to wikipedia:

Most Executions carried out in 2006

1. China (at least 1,010 but sources suggest the real tally is between 7,500 and 8,000)
2. Iran (177)
3. Pakistan (82)
4. Iraq (at least 65)
5. Sudan (at least 65)
6. United States (53)

Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and the U.S. are the only fully developed countries that have retained the death penalty.

Sofonda Cox
08-16-2007, 04:43 PM
I love how some Europeans seethe with self-righteous rage against the USA because some of its states (namely Texas) allow the death penalty in very rare cases, yet they don't seem to bat an eye at the outrageously frequent use of the death penalty in much of the Middle East, South Asia and parts of Africa. News like this invokes the response, "I hate the USA," but the 102 executions performed so far this year in Saudi Arabia haven't illicited one "I hate Saudi Arabia" thread. :rolleyes:

^ comparing Saudia Arbia and the USA should be in a completely different thread

this is not attacking the USA it's highlighting a miscarriage of justice, simple as that really. And once again do i have to stress this thread was not supposed to be a beat down of the death penalty either....:rolleyes:

guille&tati4life
08-16-2007, 04:51 PM
I love how some Europeans seethe with self-righteous rage against the USA because some of its states (namely Texas) allow the death penalty in very rare cases, yet they don't seem to bat an eye at the outrageously frequent use of the death penalty in much of the Middle East, South Asia and parts of Africa. News like this invokes the response, "I hate the USA," but the 102 executions performed so far this year in Saudi Arabia haven't illicited one "I hate Saudi Arabia" thread. :rolleyes:

Actually, the Saudis have an awful justice system imo. I use them more often than many other nations if i am criticising the justice system of a country.

The USA is the most powerful nation in the world, therefore, they're always on the news, therefore they are a country who's justice system is also easy to criticise.

What do you mean by people don't seem to bat an eye at other countries using the death penalty? Many people are anti the death penalty, which means they find it wrong no matter what country it's done in. I certainly value an Asian/African/American/European life equally. Of course, as the US are promoted as the leaders of democracy and western ideals, it is natural for Europeans to take particular notice when it is the US who are handing out such questionable punishments.

LoveFifteen
08-16-2007, 05:00 PM
^^^

I guess what I meant is that I've had angry, critical conversations with Europeans about the death penalty many times, and I just can't imagine a European meeting a Saudi and saying, "God, I hate your country. The justice system is so fucked up. It's so barbaric to execute people. What do you have to say for yourself?" But as an American, I've been on the receiving end of this conversation more times that I've cared to.

In any case, I am almost always against the death penalty, and this case in Texas sounds terrible. I hope to God that this man's execution is stayed because he should not be executed. I just don't think it's fair to judge all Americans or the USA by what Texas and a few other states are doing.

guille&tati4life
08-16-2007, 05:07 PM
^^^

I guess what I meant is that I've had angry, critical conversations with Europeans about the death penalty many times, and I just can't imagine a European meeting a Saudi and saying, "God, I hate your country. The justice system is so fucked up. It's so barbaric to execute people. What do you have to say for yourself?" But as an American, I've been on the receiving end of this conversation more times that I've cared to.

In any case, I am almost always against the death penalty, and this case in Texas sounds terrible. I hope to God that this man's execution is stayed because he should not be executed. I just don't think it's fair to judge all Americans or the USA by what Texas and a few other states are doing.

Of course not. American people i find to be more often than not verynice. However, the American government is something i do dislike. That's a big difference.

Shahar26
08-16-2007, 05:08 PM
According to wikipedia:

Most Executions carried out in 2006

1. China (at least 1,010 but sources suggest the real tally is between 7,500 and 8,000)
2. Iran (177)
3. Pakistan (82)
4. Iraq (at least 65)
5. Sudan (at least 65)
6. United States (53)

24 of the 53 were in Texas

I find that amazing, I mean it's a big state and all, but not that big, I think they are just "Execution Happy" down there :eek:

Lee
08-16-2007, 05:11 PM
24 of the 53 were in Texas

I find that amazing, I mean it's a big state and all, but not that big, I think they are just "Execution Happy" down there :eek:

Well, Texas IS the biggest state and not all states have death penalty.

Lee
08-16-2007, 05:13 PM
Actually, the Saudis have an awful justice system imo. I use them more often than many other nations if i am criticising the justice system of a country.

The USA is the most powerful nation in the world, therefore, they're always on the news, therefore they are a country who's justice system is also easy to criticise.

What do you mean by people don't seem to bat an eye at other countries using the death penalty? Many people are anti the death penalty, which means they find it wrong no matter what country it's done in. I certainly value an Asian/African/American/European life equally. Of course, as the US are promoted as the leaders of democracy and western ideals, it is natural for Europeans to take particular notice when it is the US who are handing out such questionable punishments.

Western ideals is dead on. But it's more the "Wild Wide West" ideals. ;)

AnnaK_4ever
08-16-2007, 05:27 PM
I love how some Europeans seethe with self-righteous rage against the USA because some of its states (namely Texas) allow the death penalty in very rare cases, yet they don't seem to bat an eye at the outrageously frequent use of the death penalty in much of the Middle East, South Asia and parts of Africa. News like this invokes the response, "I hate the USA," but the 102 executions performed so far this year in Saudi Arabia haven't illicited one "I hate Saudi Arabia" thread. :rolleyes:


Maybe it's because USA is supposed to be a civilized country? Maybe because Saudi Arabia and Sudan don't proclaim themselves fighters for human rights all over the world while killing their own citizens under imbecile laws?
I mean, USA is a great country, a highly-developed country therefore such cases really shock most people in Europe.

mtw
08-16-2007, 05:31 PM
USA soldiers killed about 1 mln people in Iraq, it is not given how many people were killed by them in Afghanistan. They captured, tortured and keep stil Iranian diplomats ( for 4 years !! Maybe they are dead till now too )and many persons including innocent people all over the world. They banished millions of people from own states ( Iraq and Afghanistan ). Besides they continue offensives - in spite of humanitarian regards, in spite of even common sense.
These people are sick. I don't know, how this american society is, but their authorities are very cruel, depraved ruthless people ( genoocide and criminals ). Why should their society another. They choose their representatives, because such attributes were fit to them. Many people say that USA is state without culture, morality and basic rules. Only money is the real god there.

crazy diamond
08-16-2007, 05:33 PM
USA soldiers killed about 1 mln people in Iraq, it is not given how many people were killed by them in Afghanistan. They captured, tortured and keep stil Iranian diplomats ( for 4 years !! Maybe they are dead till now too )and many persons including innocent people all over the world. They banished millions of people from own states ( Iraq and Afghanistan ). Besides they continue offensives - in spite of humanitarian regards, in spite of even common sense.
These people are sick. I don't know, how this american society is, but their authorities are very cruel, depraved ruthless people ( genoocide and criminals ). Why should their society another. They choose their representatives, because such attributes were fit to them. Many people say that USA is state without culture, morality and basic rules. Only money is the real god there.

I agree,and I think that the last sentence is the real definition of America.

LoveFifteen
08-16-2007, 05:38 PM
Well, Texas IS the biggest state and not all states have death penalty.

Not to be annoying, but Texas is the second biggest state in terms of both area and population. :angel:

California has more people, and Alaska has more area.

LoveFifteen
08-16-2007, 05:49 PM
Many people say that USA is state without culture, morality and basic rules. Only money is the real god there.

I agree,and I think that the last sentence is the real definition of America.

Yeah, it's a shame that cultured, moral, rule-following Europe doesn't still rule the world. Its period of world domination was a veritable explosion of peace, love and charity for the peoples of Africa, Asia, Australia, and the Americas. In fact, just two generations ago, several nations in Europe threw a big party for 12 million Jews, Romani, gays, handicapped, etc. I hear that party was a real "gas"! If only the rest of the world could learn to be so cultured and hospitable! :bdaycake: :aparty:

Get off your mother-fucking high horse! Every race, country, ethnic group and government has done hideously shitty, evil, deplorable things. Don't act like one country is uncultured, greedy and wicked while yours is glorious and righteous. And don't act like money isn't a god in your countries either. Money and power are gods everywhere, and only delusional fools pretend otherwise.

Lee
08-16-2007, 05:55 PM
Not to be annoying, but Texas is the second biggest state in terms of both area and population. :angel:

California has more people, and Alaska has more area.

Sorry, my 4th grade geography flew right over my head (more precisely is my son's)

crazy diamond
08-16-2007, 05:55 PM
Yeah, it's a shame that cultured, moral, rule-following Europe doesn't still rule the world. Its period of world domination was a veritable explosion of peace, love and charity for the peoples of Africa, Asia, Australia, and the Americas. In fact, just two generations ago, several nations in Europe threw a big party for 12 million Jews, Romani, gays, handicapped, etc. I hear that party was a real "gas"! If only the rest of the world could learn to be so cultured and hospitable! :bdaycake: :aparty:

Get off your mother-fucking high horse! Every race, country, ethnic group and government has done hideously shitty, evil, deplorable things. Don't act like one country is uncultured, greedy and wicked while yours is glorious and righteous. And don't act like money isn't a god in your countries either. Money and power are gods everywhere, and only delusional fools pretend otherwise.

the party thing - childish...but I have an opinion and I`m not gonna argue wtih your opinion because it wont take us anywhere...

Rafa's Wedgie
08-16-2007, 05:59 PM
the party thing - childish...but I have an opinion and I`m not gonna argue wtih your opinion because it wont take us anywhere...
Yes because your other posts in this thread have been shining examples of maturity. :rolleyes: You won't respond because everything he said was true and you have no excuse for agreeing with the ignorance laced rant mtw made about American citizens, their culture and their morality. It was so full of generalizations and disjointed abhorrence that it's a miracle LoveFifteen was able to decipher it.

crazy diamond
08-16-2007, 06:02 PM
Yes because your other posts in this thread have been shining examples of maturity. :rolleyes: You won't respond because everything he said was right and you have no excuse for agreeing with the ignorance laced rant mtw made about American citizens, their culture and thier morality.


did I do something to you?I`ll apologize if I did...

Julio1974
08-16-2007, 06:03 PM
I love how some Europeans seethe with self-righteous rage against the USA because some of its states (namely Texas) allow the death penalty in very rare cases, yet they don't seem to bat an eye at the outrageously frequent use of the death penalty in much of the Middle East, South Asia and parts of Africa. News like this invokes the response, "I hate the USA," but the 102 executions performed so far this year in Saudi Arabia haven't illicited one "I hate Saudi Arabia" thread. :rolleyes:

Where is the outrage against other countries that employ the death penalty? Why can I not imagine a Portuguese man smugly saying to a Chinese man that he is so proud to be from Portugal because his country has abolished the death penalty, but saying that to an American is basically the new black?!

Anyway, I'm not a big supporter of the death penalty, but in some cases, I support it, e.g. the execution of Timothy McVeigh. Most executions in the USA take place in Texas because the death penalty is decided by state.

=====================================

According to wikipedia:

Most Executions carried out in 2006

1. China (at least 1,010 but sources suggest the real tally is between 7,500 and 8,000)
2. Iran (177)
3. Pakistan (82)
4. Iraq (at least 65)
5. Sudan (at least 65)
6. United States (53)

Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and the U.S. are the only fully developed countries that have retained the death penalty.

Excellent post.

Julio1974
08-16-2007, 06:08 PM
the party thing - childish...but I have an opinion and I`m not gonna argue wtih your opinion because it wont take us anywhere...

She was just responding to those who think they are morally superior. I couldn't agree more with her response

Julio1974
08-16-2007, 06:26 PM
Whilst I agree with you, this thread isn't really about the death penalty is it ? :shrug:

It's about some bizarre law that appears to not differentiate between the person that pulled the trigger and the person that was sitting in the car 100 yards away :retard:.

On the face of it, it's outrageous.

Originally yes, but some people turned the thread into USA bashing which , of course, is politically correct and nobody will complain about it.

Rafa's Wedgie
08-16-2007, 06:28 PM
did I do something to you?I`ll apologize if I did...
You didn't "do" anything to me. I just think you should educate yourself about American society before concluding that they're all unethical, money loving mongers that love to kill people. :shrug: Those are all unjust generalizations and I think it's very unwise to maintain that type of narrow viewpoint on an enitre nation.

crazy diamond
08-16-2007, 07:55 PM
You didn't "do" anything to me. I just think you should educate yourself about American society before concluding that they're all unethical, money loving mongers that love to kill people. :shrug: Those are all unjust generalizations and I think it's very unwise to maintain that type of narrow viewpoint on an enitre nation.

I lived there for 2 years.I think I have some clue about American society:shrug:

Lillith
08-17-2007, 02:44 AM
Why should the US abolish the death penalty just because Europe is doing it? We are much bigger as a country than any of the countries in Europe. Our laws, our culture, and our problems are completely different from yours. The death penalty makes perfect sense for such a large nation that has to deal with so many heinous crimes against its citizens. I see nothing wrong with the death penalty for violent crimes. If you break the laws of society then you do not deserve to be a part of said society.

I wonder how many of you socialists screamed for the death penalty when those two kids who viciously murdered Jamie Bulger in England several years ago were then allowed to go free and live their lives in peace and anonymity?


Well, I *am* a Socialist, but that really doesn't have anything to do with my opposition to the death penalty.

Out of all death sentences handed down in this country, over 1/4 of them come from Harris County, Texas. One can commit the same crime in The Socialist Republic of Vermont and be sentenced to life as the person on death row in Texas. A black criminal defendant is about 10 times more likely to be sentenced to death than a white defendant. A male criminal defendant is more than 100 times more likely to be sentenced to death than a female. Equal protection under the law? Hardly.

Juries in Texas are intentionally kept in the dark about their sentencing options. They are only told they can impose death or will have other options, but not fully informed of those options. The Texas Lege refuses to adopt a life without parole option for sentencing because death penalty proponents KNOW that when juries have that option they choose it. Even some conservatives in this state have been asking the Lege to adopt a true life sentence, but thus far have been unsuccesful.

As everywhere else in the US justice system, criminal justice is bought by the wealthy. The overwhelming majority of defendants sentenced to death were represented by legal aid, public defenders or appointed attorneys, not the high dollar Johnny Cochrans and F Lee Baileys of the world. Though I am not criticizing those attorneys, as many do what they can with the limited resources the government provides for the defense. I've seen cases in which the indigent defendant could not get the court to approve DNA testing because of the cost.

Many of our judges have also gone round the bend. We have a sitting US Supreme Cout justice who has opined that factual innocence is not a bar to carrying out a death sentence. Really sounds like someone I want on the bench.

I'd say this is one of many ways in which we would be better off following "Old Europe".

Lillith
08-17-2007, 02:51 AM
I love how some Europeans seethe with self-righteous rage against the USA because some of its states (namely Texas) allow the death penalty in very rare cases, yet they don't seem to bat an eye at the outrageously frequent use of the death penalty in much of the Middle East, South Asia and parts of Africa. News like this invokes the response, "I hate the USA," but the 102 executions performed so far this year in Saudi Arabia haven't illicited one "I hate Saudi Arabia" thread. :rolleyes:

Where is the outrage against other countries that employ the death penalty? Why can I not imagine a Portuguese man smugly saying to a Chinese man that he is so proud to be from Portugal because his country has abolished the death penalty, but saying that to an American is basically the new black?!

Anyway, I'm not a big supporter of the death penalty, but in some cases, I support it, e.g. the execution of Timothy McVeigh. Most executions in the USA take place in Texas because the death penalty is decided by state.

=====================================

According to wikipedia:

Most Executions carried out in 2006

1. China (at least 1,010 but sources suggest the real tally is between 7,500 and 8,000)
2. Iran (177)
3. Pakistan (82)
4. Iraq (at least 65)
5. Sudan (at least 65)
6. United States (53)

Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and the U.S. are the only fully developed countries that have retained the death penalty.


I don't think posting that list was very helpful to your cause. Do you really think associating the US with some of the worst human rights offenders in the world is a good thing?

And I think most people are so hard on the US because of what we are *supposed* to stand for. No one has said Iran is a great place for a feminazi like me to move, but is Iran really the company we wish to keep as a country?

Lillith
08-17-2007, 02:53 AM
24 of the 53 were in Texas

I find that amazing, I mean it's a big state and all, but not that big, I think they are just "Execution Happy" down there :eek:



Unfortunately we are. Bush set a record for gubernatorial executions in his 6 years as head of state. The rest of the country should have seen his presidency coming.

Lillith
08-17-2007, 03:18 AM
Originally yes, but some people turned the thread into USA bashing which , of course, is politically correct and nobody will complain about it.

Bashing to some is constructive criticism to others. I am hard on my fellow countrymen and women and my government because we are so blessed. We are the wealthiest nation in the world with voter turnout rates consistently below 50%. We have lower literacy rates, higher teen pregnancy rates and the worst access to healthcare in the developed world.

Personally, I know we can do better, which is why I by god demand more of our government. I really don't understand the idea that we must be blind to our own faults in order to be patriotic- that's nationalism, nhot patriotism.

"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair." Mencken

Winston's Human
08-18-2007, 04:08 AM
Juries in Texas are intentionally kept in the dark about their sentencing options. They are only told they can impose death or will have other options, but not fully informed of those options. The Texas Lege refuses to adopt a life without parole option for sentencing because death penalty proponents KNOW that when juries have that option they choose it. Even some conservatives in this state have been asking the Lege to adopt a true life sentence, but thus far have been unsuccesful.

Not true.

First, the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure provides that a jury be instructed that the possible sentences are life imprisonment or death based on their answers to the punishment special issues. In particular, article 37.071 §2(e)(2)(A) requires the trial court to instruct the jury that, if they affirmatively answer the mitigation special issue, the trial court will sentence the defendant to life imprisonment.

Second, the Texas Legislature adopted life imprisonment without parole as a sentencing option in 2005.

Lillith
08-18-2007, 04:37 AM
Not true.

First, the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure provides that a jury be instructed that the possible sentences are life imprisonment or death based on their answers to the punishment special issues. In particular, article 37.071 §2(e)(2)(A) requires the trial court to instruct the jury that, if they affirmatively answer the mitigation special issue, the trial court will sentence the defendant to life imprisonment.

Second, the Texas Legislature adopted life imprisonment without parole as a sentencing option in 2005.


You're right, I did forget that Perry had finally signed the bill in 05. I'll have to research to see how many true life sentences have been handed down and how informed the juries are now, that will be interesting to see. Time and again the number of death sentences has been reduced in states with a true life provision, so it will be interesting to see if that also happens in Texas of all places.

And jury information has improved in the last 4-6 years, but at least pre 2005 they were still not fully informed of the consequences of their refusal to impose death until AFTER they had made such a decision. Even the conservative Rehnquist Court often criticized the Texas sentencing process, one reason so many death row appeals from Texas were granted cert.

Though I admit that I am ignorant of what the juries are told post-2005. Hopefully they are now fully informed, but if not, even the Roberts Court seems willing to review death penalty issues. Again, absent Mr. Scalia, who seems to use his Catholicism as guidance for every move in his life *except* for his consideration of death penalty appeals.


Btw, your Winston is beautiful.

Winston's Human
08-18-2007, 04:56 AM
Btw, your Winston is beautiful.


Thanks. He is a very sweet dog.

mtw
08-20-2007, 07:12 PM
Yeah, it's a shame that cultured, moral, rule-following Europe doesn't still rule the world. Its period of world domination was a veritable explosion of peace, love and charity for the peoples of Africa, Asia, Australia, and the Americas. In fact, just two generations ago, several nations in Europe threw a big party for 12 million Jews, Romani, gays, handicapped, etc. I hear that party was a real "gas"! If only the rest of the world could learn to be so cultured and hospitable! :bdaycake: :aparty:

Get off your mother-fucking high horse! Every race, country, ethnic group and government has done hideously shitty, evil, deplorable things. Don't act like one country is uncultured, greedy and wicked while yours is glorious and righteous. And don't act like money isn't a god in your countries either. Money and power are gods everywhere, and only delusional fools pretend otherwise.

Of course that every nation, race and ethnic group make bad things. But your american nation and your leaders are on the top of the list - you are uncrowned kings of all or majority dirty tricks, crimes and even genocides of this world. And the money is the real king of your world. Maybe it is time to change something. I don't understand it, but you don't see it. A basic problem of your medias and Bush relies upon: ,,what did Iranian president talk today?,,, He is not genocide as opposed to your one. And if your Bush wants to regards a secret service of other country ( in this case Iranian secret services) as terroristic one, then they must regard his CIA as terrorists too. Maybe it is time to change. You had already floods, fire of forrests, collapse of bridge, then mine, now big flood. All set of natural disasters. Maybe your leaders should have more powerful signs from Providence ( for instance typhoon or good earthquake ) to understand that they are usual, simple people as every human being of these world and they have no right to take away of life of innocent people ( Iraq and Afghanistan ) and they have no right to get ready a new war and new attack for the next innocent country.

Scotso
08-21-2007, 05:41 AM
Bashing to some is constructive criticism to others.

You know, you're welcome to your opinion. That is one of the benefits of being an American citizen. However, to call what mtw and some other ignorant people on these boards say about the United States "constructive criticism" is just plain stupid. There is nothing constructive about their bigoted rants.

Scotso
08-21-2007, 05:43 AM
No one has said Iran is a great place for a feminazi like me to move, but is Iran really the company we wish to keep as a country?

On the contrary, people often treat Iran as the poor little kid being bullied by the evil United States.

A poor little kid that still murders people for not being Muslim.

Scotso
08-21-2007, 05:46 AM
mtw,

You know your own government allowed the CIA to operate secret prisons in your country. Poland is a strong ally of Bush. And why is that? Because all your government cares about is American dollars pouring in. Perhaps you should bash them as well.

Scotso
08-21-2007, 05:50 AM
I'd like to thank LoveFifteen for his posts in this thread. We can all admit that the United States has problems, but no country is above criticism. Over 90% of the nation-bashing that goes on in these message boards is directed at the United States.

The only possible reason for such a discrepancy is jealousy of our nation's status in the world. Even if any of this started as "constructive criticism," it's gotten to the point where people from other nations attack us so much that we are extremely unlikely to care or consider what anyone says about us anymore. If you want to affect change, there are much better ways to go about it.

LoveFifteen
08-21-2007, 04:54 PM
Of course that every nation, race and ethnic group make bad things. But your american nation and your leaders are on the top of the list - you are uncrowned kings of all or majority dirty tricks, crimes and even genocides of this world. And the money is the real king of your world. Maybe it is time to change something. I don't understand it, but you don't see it. A basic problem of your medias and Bush relies upon: ,,what did Iranian president talk today?,,, He is not genocide as opposed to your one. And if your Bush wants to regards a secret service of other country ( in this case Iranian secret services) as terroristic one, then they must regard his CIA as terrorists too. Maybe it is time to change. You had already floods, fire of forrests, collapse of bridge, then mine, now big flood. All set of natural disasters. Maybe your leaders should have more powerful signs from Providence ( for instance typhoon or good earthquake ) to understand that they are usual, simple people as every human being of these world and they have no right to take away of life of innocent people ( Iraq and Afghanistan ) and they have no right to get ready a new war and new attack for the next innocent country.

Once you mentioned natural disasters as "signs from Providence", I realized I was having a discussion with a complete moron. Are all natural disasters God's way of communicating with man? :rolleyes:

Who was He punishing with the Dec 2004 tsunami?

Sofonda Cox
08-21-2007, 06:51 PM
Originally yes, but some people turned the thread into USA bashing.

and in doing so people have completely forgotten why i posted the article in the first place. Although in fairness some of the American posters were first in to defend the guy being executed, saying that i basically no nothing about the case and that he is where he is for a reason, even though he murdered no one, which in turn opened invites for America bashing.

Naranoc
08-21-2007, 07:35 PM
and in doing so people have completely forgotten why i posted the article in the first place. Although in fairness some of the American posters were first in to defend the guy being executed, saying that i basically no nothing about the case and that he is where he is for a reason, even though he murdered no one, which in turn opened invites for America bashing.

Which in turn, opened an invitation for mtw to step in the limelight and begin her speech :worship:

Sofonda Cox
08-21-2007, 07:43 PM
Which in turn, opened an invitation for mtw to step in the limelight and begin her speech :worship:

exactly :lol: mind you, she doesn't need too much invitation :tape:

LoveFifteen
08-21-2007, 11:15 PM
American's are a bad peoples who is god are money and power. I does thinks that its the worstest country in the hole world. American's deserved the collapse of the bridge in Minnesota, especially because Minnesota voted for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004. Providence chooses fairly when He smites a certain state. Only Republicans were crush under the bridge.

Lillith
08-22-2007, 04:18 AM
You know, you're welcome to your opinion. That is one of the benefits of being an American citizen. However, to call what mtw and some other ignorant people on these boards say about the United States "constructive criticism" is just plain stupid. There is nothing constructive about their bigoted rants.


Eh, people like mtw are just as blind as their counterparts on the right like Rush and Hannity. The only difference is that Hannity and Rush get plenty of airtime to spout their hateful BS. You have to develop thicker skin and learn to ignore people like that. mtw thinks that pinko Commie Socialist bleeding heart liberal Lillith is a nazi just because I live in America, so that pretty well sums up her ability to engage in intelligent discussion and debate.

I am just glad that she probably doesn't realize that I live in Texas, I can't imagine what she'd call me then. :)


In all seriousness, I do think that there needs to be a discussion in our country of the differences between patriotism and nationalism. Blind, unthinking fealty to one's country is not a good attribute, no matter what the corporate media tells us. But I'm not holding my breath that any such discussion takes place anytime soon- after all, it might interfere with the 24/7 coverage of Lohan's latest rehab stint or Brangelina's latest, uh, whatever.

Lillith
08-22-2007, 04:24 AM
Once you mentioned natural disasters as "signs from Providence", I realized I was having a discussion with a complete moron. Are all natural disasters God's way of communicating with man? :rolleyes:

Who was He punishing with the Dec 2004 tsunami?



It is just another illustration of what I've said elsewhere- mtw is the "liberal" flip side of the "conservative" nuts like Falwell who said that 9/11 was wrought by god as vengeance on the feminists, abortionists, etc. or Robertson's tirade against the god of hurricanes' retribution for Disney World allowing Gay Pride day. You really can't take either type seriously.

Sofonda Cox
08-22-2007, 08:25 AM
American's are a bad peoples who is god are money and power. I does thinks that its the worstest country in the hole world. American's deserved the collapse of the bridge in Minnesota, especially because Minnesota voted for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004. Providence chooses fairly when He smites a certain state. Only Republicans were crush under the bridge.

if you were trying to imitate mtw your use of English was far too good :tape:

BostonBrian
08-22-2007, 08:33 AM
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/actnow?bid=4&pid=221949

Kenneth Foster's Fate

In less than three weeks Kenneth Foster, an African American man sentenced to death in 1997 for the murder of Michael LaHood, is scheduled to be executed in Texas.

LaHood's actual killer, Mauriceo Brown, was executed in 2006. Foster, who was in a car about 100 yards from the crime when it was committed, was convicted under the controversial Texas state "law of parties", under which the distinction between principal actor and accomplice in a crime is abolished. The law can impose the death penalty on anybody involved in a crime where a murder occurred. In Foster's case he was driving a car with three passengers, one of whom, Brown, left the car, got into an altercation and shot LaHood dead. Texas is the only state that applies this statute in capital cases, making it the only place in the United States where a person can be factually innocent of murder and still face the death penalty.

Foster maintains that he did not know that Brown would either rob or kill LaHood. According to an Amnesty International investigation, there is evidence not heard at trial that the murder was an unplanned act committed by Brown, as the latter himself claimed before his execution.

In 2005, a federal district judge found a "fundamental constitutional defect in Foster's sentence" and ruled that Foster's jury had not been asked to determine if he had any intent to kill LaHood, and that this failure represented a misapplication of the law. However, the state of Texas appealed to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which overturned the decision.

The crazy thing about this case is that no one argues that Foster killed the victim. As the Fort Worth Star-Telegram's award-winning columnist Bob Ray Sanders wrote, the case "is further proof of how cruel, capricious, unjust and utterly insane our death penalty laws have become....Because of this tainted system, whether you believe in capital punishment or not, a man who did not plan or commit a murder will die August 30 unless somebody -- a judge, the Board of Pardons and Paroles and/or the governor-- has the heart and the guts to stop it."


:help:

Eveyone please go to http://www.freekenneth.com and post a message of support in the guestbook, or better still write to members of the Texas Legislature - you can do this on his homepage.As opposed to other countries that kill just for then sake of killing,******, murdering and cannibalism along will a host of other crimes against humanity seen throughout the ages.All countries my friend ,have had a hand in barbarism.

Sofonda Cox
08-22-2007, 12:48 PM
As opposed to other countries that kill just for then sake of killing,******, murdering and cannibalism along will a host of other crimes against humanity seen throughout the ages.All countries my friend ,have had a hand in barbarism.

if you are referring to the thread title, i changed it from the USA will execute an innocent man, because people objected to him being called innocent :)

kabuki
08-22-2007, 02:56 PM
American's are a bad peoples who is god are money and power. I does thinks that its the worstest country in the hole world. American's deserved the collapse of the bridge in Minnesota, especially because Minnesota voted for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004. Providence chooses fairly when He smites a certain state. Only Republicans were crush under the bridge.

:lol: What a mess.

mtw
08-22-2007, 03:51 PM
Once you mentioned natural disasters as "signs from Providence", I realized I was having a discussion with a complete moron. Are all natural disasters God's way of communicating with man? :rolleyes:

Who was He punishing with the Dec 2004 tsunami?

Not all disasters. Only these disasters, which concern your country. And maybe it is only way, which reach dull brains of your leaders. The level of bigotry is the biggest in your state. The problem relies upon that man can not believe in God. It is the freedom of choice. But people must not deride at God and usurp of his laws. And your leaders make it constantly.

mtw
08-22-2007, 04:10 PM
The only possible reason for such a discrepancy is jealousy of our nation's status in the world. Even if any of this started as "constructive criticism," it's gotten to the point where people from other nations attack us so much that we are extremely unlikely to care or consider what anyone says about us anymore. If you want to affect change, there are much better ways to go about it.

Nobody is jelous of your country, because there are no reasons for jelousy and there are no reasons for proud of your country. It is real shame to be american. I don't understand, wheather it reaches to your minds. The reason of dislike for your USA is foreign politics of your leaders. I can remind of it: two plundering, occupying wars ( Iraq with hundreds tousends of killed people, millions of refugees and total destroyed state ), eternal desire of power and rule all over the world, especially if a country has natural resources. It is real sick. Your leaders want to rule and control all, but they give nothing in exchange for society, only for their own chieftains. Everything, what is a little bit another ( for example Russia and most of all this poor Iran, which is normal, not rich state, no superpower, harassed by your embargos and wars of your leaders and maybe the next purpose of plundering, sick politics of your ill, greedy leaders), is by your leaders exterminated. It seems that they are very simple, primitive people. I don't know, how such peolle can rule in such big state, which is equipped in nuclear weapon. And the eternal staggering president stands on the top of it. I did no see in TV that this man went straight. It is not normal.

LoveFifteen
08-22-2007, 04:13 PM
Not all disasters. Only these disasters, which concern your country. And maybe it is only way, which reach dull brains of your leaders. The level of bigotry is the biggest in your state.

Yeah, when a commuter bridge collapses and kills several people, I definitely want my nation’s leaders thinking, "God must be showing us that our foreign policy is unilateral, hegemonic and immoral. The Great Almighty is sending out a wake-up call to let us know that we are materialistic and blood-thirsty.” I don’t want my leaders thinking crazy bullshit like, “We need stricter bridge inspections and better engineering standards.”

It's the same with hurricanes. Too bad God is accidentally punishing poor, innocent Mexico right now instead of its militarist northern neighbor. :awww:

Naranoc
08-22-2007, 04:23 PM
Nobody is jelous of your country, because there are no reasons for jelousy and there are no reasons for proud of your country. It is real shame to be american. I don't understand, wheather it reaches to your minds. The reason of dislike for your USA is foreign politics of your leaders. I can remind of it: two plundering, occupying wars ( Iraq with hundreds tousends of killed people, millions of refugees and total destroyed state ), eternal desire of power and rule all over the world, especially if a country has natural resources. It is real sick. Your leaders want to rule and control all, but they give nothing in exchange for society, only for their own chieftains. Everything, what is a little bit another ( for example Russia and most of all this poor Iran, which is normal, not rich state, no superpower, harassed by your embargos and wars of your leaders and maybe the next purpose of plundering, sick politics of your ill, greedy leaders), is by your leaders exterminated. It seems that they are very simple, primitive people. I don't know, how such peolle can rule in such big state, which is equipped in nuclear weapon. And the eternal staggering president stands on the top of it. I did no see in TV that this man went straight. It is not normal.

All hail :worship:

Rafa's Wedgie
08-22-2007, 08:27 PM
American's are a bad peoples who is god are money and power. I does thinks that its the worstest country in the hole world. American's deserved the collapse of the bridge in Minnesota, especially because Minnesota voted for Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004. Providence chooses fairly when He smites a certain state. Only Republicans were crush under the bridge.
:lol:

Scotso
08-23-2007, 04:37 AM
It is just another illustration of what I've said elsewhere- mtw is the "liberal" flip side of the "conservative" nuts like Falwell who said that 9/11 was wrought by god as vengeance on the feminists, abortionists, etc. or Robertson's tirade against the god of hurricanes' retribution for Disney World allowing Gay Pride day. You really can't take either type seriously.

I seriously doubt mtw is liberal. Poland isn't exactly a bastion of liberalism. When it comes to our country, many foreigners on both the left and the right seem united in their hate.

Scotso
08-23-2007, 04:42 AM
Nobody is jelous of your country, because there are no reasons for jelousy and there are no reasons for proud of your country. It is real shame to be american. I don't understand, wheather it reaches to your minds. The reason of dislike for your USA is foreign politics of your leaders. I can remind of it: two plundering, occupying wars ( Iraq with hundreds tousends of killed people, millions of refugees and total destroyed state ), eternal desire of power and rule all over the world, especially if a country has natural resources. It is real sick. Your leaders want to rule and control all, but they give nothing in exchange for society, only for their own chieftains. Everything, what is a little bit another ( for example Russia and most of all this poor Iran, which is normal, not rich state, no superpower, harassed by your embargos and wars of your leaders and maybe the next purpose of plundering, sick politics of your ill, greedy leaders), is by your leaders exterminated. It seems that they are very simple, primitive people. I don't know, how such peolle can rule in such big state, which is equipped in nuclear weapon. And the eternal staggering president stands on the top of it. I did no see in TV that this man went straight. It is not normal.

See what I mean? :tape:

Listening to people like mtw makes me almost want to vote Republican.

mtw
08-23-2007, 04:54 PM
See what I mean? :tape:

Listening to people like mtw makes me almost want to vote Republican.

You must listen firstly to your president. He gave yesterday his utterance. Firstly he entered the stage staggering ( is he always boozed? Problems with alcoholics ( drunkards ) relies upon it that they do never think soberly. When they are boosed, they can not think soberly and when they are in withdrawal state, they have dellusions, hallucinations and many corporal symptoms for instance chronic diarrhea and as a result of mental problems they don't think soberly too. Maybe in this state he will attack the next new state or he will give new, excelent information ). I see that it will come the time, when he falls down on the stage. When he was in Poland he was lent on his wife, besides Polish press gave information that he spent a long time in toilette thanks to this visit was extended in time ( 2 H. in toilette and 1 H for meeting with our horryfying twins ). So he said yesterday that he is the only carrier of democracy on this world and all people, who do not share his views must be killed. I don't know it seems that he must use nuclear weapon to fullfill his idea. I don't know, but he is the only politician of this world, who is greated with hatred by tousends of people on the streets and before TV sets everywhere ( in every state of Europe, South America ), when he arrives. It should give him to thinking. Besides this man created his philosophy on his own lies. He will bring no democracy to these people. He destroyed 2 states, he killed hundreds of tousends or even millions of innocent people, he banished out of own countries millions of people. These states are the pile of ruins. He led both these states to civil war and drove this poor states in economical problems. And what kind of freedom did he give to this people? Even Iraqi government lives behind the wall with barbed wire - as ghetto or camp. It is no democracy and freedom. It is very severe, occupying, plundering war. These people have no choice and no democracy. I hope that this sick man can plead guilty, although before his own person and he will change something with his life and most of all in his attitude to this poor people in states occupied by his troops ( maybe Haloperidol will help him by it )
What ruthless man he is. It is very severe to imagine. And what kind of mother f..rs voted for him and for these republicans. Nothing will excuse this man. It is usual genocide and criminal.

Winston's Human
08-30-2007, 08:12 PM
Governor Perry commuted Foster's sentence to life imprisonment based on the recommendation of the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles.

Sofonda Cox
08-30-2007, 10:01 PM
Governor Perry commuted Foster's sentence to life imprisonment based on the recommendation of the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles.

good news :wavey: