For Americans: the Constitution, rights and the patriot act. [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

For Americans: the Constitution, rights and the patriot act.

zicofirol
08-08-2007, 06:33 PM
I knew the patriot act was bad, but didnt know it was this bad, in these 4 video clips Judge Andrew Napolitano (fox news analyst, dont hold that against him,lol) gives a brief but very good explanation on how horrendous the patriot act is, I was actually shocked, he also gives a brief(very brief) history on the constitution(the 4th ammendment in particular) and times at which the 4th amendment has been attacked.
Seems he is more libertarian in his politicla beliefs, imo, anyway I think it was a worthwhile watch, very good imo.

here it is(he really gets into it in videos 2-4 but 1 is also good:
#1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8QwTKKSvR8
videos 2-4 are on the right of the screen in the related video section in video 1. You should also check out the ron paul speech which is in the same column :worship:

After watching this it is scary to think how much power the government has been granted(or how much liberty has or can be taken from us), possibly more power than in the times of FDR!

Jim Jones
08-08-2007, 07:18 PM
Long live the Patriot Act :worship:

El Legenda
08-08-2007, 07:24 PM
i could care less about the Patriot Act, i got nothing to hide :lol:

El Legenda
08-08-2007, 07:24 PM
i could care less about the Patriot Act, i got nothing to hide :lol:

Scotso
08-08-2007, 07:36 PM
i could care less about the Patriot Act, i got nothing to hide :lol:

That is until the government decides they don't like you and plant evidence to get you imprisoned. Or maybe they just decide they don't like what you read so they put you in prison for years as an enemy combatant without ever accusing you of anything. :shrug:

This government has done more in the last few years to take away our rights than any U.S. government in history. For so many generations the progression in this country was from less freedom to more freedom. This is one of the few times we've backtracked... and gone back very, very far.

It's scary to me. Wiretapping and lists of what you read at the library. National IDs. Sure, people can say right now that it's not THAT bad. But it's the slippery slope thing... they just keep doing more and more and no one cares until we come to the point that it's too much, and there's nothing we can do about it. :shrug:

zicofirol
08-08-2007, 07:55 PM
i could care less about the Patriot Act, i got nothing to hide :lol:

at least watch the videos, this is a terrible piece of legislation that allows government to find what they want to find, you have to prove your innocence instead of government proving your guilt(if tried under terrorism act) the law is so subjective that many things can be considered "terrorist" acts or acts that aid terrorism etc.

One highlight from the video is that napolitano mentions only 2 senators read the patriot act before voting on it, both of them voted against it, in congress they where given 15 minutes to read it, this takes days to read etc.

The rights guranteed in the constitution are there for a reason, and that is to prevent government abuse of power.

The information to catch terrorist before 9-11 was there, there where memos' reports on the suspects etc. There where reports alqueda was planning an attack, the cia had 3 chances to kill bin laden and the presiden in power at the time did not pull the trigger etc. All these new laws only give government more power to basically do what they want.

This government has done more in the last few years to take away our rights than any U.S. government in history. For so many generations the progression in this country was from less freedom to more freedom. This is one of the few times we've backtracked... and gone back very, very far.
Not sure abotu that, for about 90 years now the trend has been toward less freedom with periods of less freedom(WW's, FDR etc) to periods of more freedom but overall the trend has been declining freedom the bush government just has done it much quicker...

Scotso
08-08-2007, 08:00 PM
I can't agree with that. Civil rights have progressed steadily over our history, this is really the first time that it's gone backwards.

And although I'm a libertarian, I still think FDR was the best president we ever had. He was the one we needed at that time. :p

zicofirol
08-08-2007, 08:08 PM
I can't agree with that. Civil rights have progressed steadily over our history, this is really the first time that it's gone backwards.

And although I'm a libertarian, I still think FDR was the best president we ever had. He was the one we needed at that time. :p

with civil rights, it was states that started passing laws to prevent blacks and women from voting it was not a ban from government, yes there have been improvement in civil right but the overall trend for everyone hass been declining freedom. FDR was a disaster, his economic plans all failed I think he is the president who has had more legislation batted down by the supreme court for being unconstitutional, he was authoritarian an admirer of fascism, in fact eraly in his presidency he sent personal advisors to Italy to see what the great mussolini was doing :o etc.
I started readin up on fdr from different articles then I read this book and it was an eye opener: FDR's Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great Depression (http://www.amazon.com/FDRs-Folly-Roosevelt-Prolonged-Depression/dp/0761501657)

anyway back on track, people shoudl at leat view the videos(they are short) before dismissing them...

Jim Jones
08-08-2007, 10:14 PM
FDR was not great. He was weak towards Stalin whereas Churchill wanted to act tough towards him. Sure FDR entered WWII but then again Japan had attacked U.S. so it was kind of easy for U.S. to enter the war. Another President would have entered the war earlier then Dec. 1941 and there would have been no Pearl Harbor when Japan would see the might of U.S. forces.

buddyholly
08-09-2007, 03:06 AM
they just keep doing more and more and no one cares until we come to the point that it's too much, and there's nothing we can do about it. :shrug:

Relax! There's always something you can do about it, when the next election rolls around. Unless you live in Venezuela, that is.

Scotso
08-09-2007, 03:08 AM
Relax! There's always something you can do about it, when the next election rolls around. Unless you live in Venezuela, that is.

That's my point. If no one does anything about this trend, we may not have free and fair elections at some point in the future. We may not have them now, who knows. :shrug:

And as for people criticizing FDR and his "failed policies," he got us out of the depression and made us a world superpower. So er, yeah :retard:

Scotso
08-09-2007, 03:10 AM
FDR was not great. He was weak towards Stalin whereas Churchill wanted to act tough towards him. Sure FDR entered WWII but then again Japan had attacked U.S. so it was kind of easy for U.S. to enter the war. Another President would have entered the war earlier then Dec. 1941 and there would have been no Pearl Harbor when Japan would see the might of U.S. forces.

Another president might never have entered. It's clear you have very little understanding of the climate in this country at that time. We were still very isolationist, and didn't want to get involved in another world war.

I can't see how anyone could have entered the war before that time, the people and government just wouldn't have allowed it.

El Legenda
08-09-2007, 03:11 AM
That is until the government decides they don't like you and plant evidence to get you imprisoned. Or maybe they just decide they don't like what you read so they put you in prison for years as an enemy combatant without ever accusing you of anything. :shrug:

:shrug:

i highly doubt that the gov would waste money to set up a normal person like that, like i said, if you're clean you got nothing to worry about

Scotso
08-09-2007, 03:15 AM
i highly doubt that the gov would waste money to set up a normal person like that, like i said, if you're clean you got nothing to worry about

But there are people who aren't "normal" that the government may not like. People that are critical of the President's policies.

It's sad that you have that view. I'm sure a lot of people in Europe before WWII said "well if you're not Jewish, you have nothing to worry about."

We either have freedom or we don't. If we keep it from some, we're all damned.

Scotso
08-09-2007, 03:15 AM
Long live the Patriot Act :worship:

Aren't you Indian? I hope you come to the U.S. and get to experience how customs treats people with your skin color.

buddyholly
08-09-2007, 03:23 AM
That's my point. If no one does anything about this trend, we may not have free and fair elections at some point in the future.

Well, yea, you may be a bit late with that observation.:D

The danger is that the way things are going, you may still have a choice, but a limited one. The presidential office may be restricted to the Bush and Clinton families!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would make printing ballot papers easy. They would all say:

BUSH ____

CLINTON ____

and unused ones could be kept for use in the next elections.

Jim Jones
08-09-2007, 07:30 PM
Aren't you Indian? I hope you come to the U.S. and get to experience how customs treats people with your skin color.

Thta is ok, we treat non-brown people the sameway in India. Tit for that I guess.

Also patriot act or not patriot act custom officials who have the same attitude. Patriot act has nothing to do with ttitude of custom officals.

So patriot Act is no a racial thing. It is a cultural thing promoting Westernism over Islamism.

Jim Jones
08-09-2007, 07:36 PM
Another president might never have entered. It's clear you have very little understanding of the climate in this country at that time. We were still very isolationist, and didn't want to get involved in another world war.

I can't see how anyone could have entered the war before that time, the people and government just wouldn't have allowed it.

U.S. was isolationist but it has always had close ties with Britain. When UK was bombed that is when U.S. should have intervened. The people would have not like the war but at that time the media did not have the means to cover the war as they did from Vietnam onwards. Also the people could not grasp the horrors of the war. For instance the concentration camps were only know about after the war.