Söderling imitated Nadal on court! [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Söderling imitated Nadal on court!

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marcRD
07-02-2007, 07:23 PM
It was really not to be funny, but pure good old intense hate out there on court, Nadal was pissed of because of something and showed he was about to serve in a kind of offensive way probably because Söderling complained about it before. Söderling paid it back by picking his ass like Nadal does and make Nadal wait for a long time to serve. No player laughted, they were both pissed of at each other. I was really shocked.

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5rOC42dW0

Söderlings comments in swedish media:


" I just had to do it. All the players complains about how often u have to wait for him. Now he had to wait for me once, i probably waited for him 200 times, and he made fun of me. Even if it doesnt belong to tennis what i did i think he throws mountains in a glass house."

mamasue
07-02-2007, 07:24 PM
Soderling is a fja'fja'fja'fja'faj'fja' :devil:

ReturnWinner
07-02-2007, 07:25 PM
really? soderling is said to be a prick, so not surpise

btw anybody has a clip of that?

Roddickominator
07-02-2007, 07:26 PM
LMAO I saw the clip....that was greatness. Soderling just went up a notch in my book.

nanoman
07-02-2007, 07:26 PM
Yeah, and now Soderling looks like a total fool being broken immediately right after that. Gosh, don't get into a pissing contest if you are not mentally up to it.

Bremen
07-02-2007, 07:26 PM
LMAO I saw the clip....that was greatness. Soderling just went up a notch in my book.

Ditto

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:26 PM
Mother fucking piece of shit. I will upload the video later if someone else doesn't. I hate that asshole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Soderling was angry because at every big point just as he is about to serve...STOP! Nadal has his hand up. I mean it is not great behaviour on the court but Nadal's disrespectful actions are actually intended to effect the opponent for the next point whereas Soderling was just angry.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 07:27 PM
:lol: Good old fashioned hate makes the tour more interesting.

Blue Heart24
07-02-2007, 07:27 PM
Toad :worship:

Blue Heart24
07-02-2007, 07:27 PM
where can I find the clip?

Grinder
07-02-2007, 07:27 PM
That was hilarious. :lol:

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 07:27 PM
BTW, how many times has Nadal delayed the server? Is there any match where he hasn't done this?

marcRD
07-02-2007, 07:28 PM
Söderling certanly is an intensive character on the pitch, he showed no respect for Nadal at all out there. This could be a great future rivalry.

madmanfool
07-02-2007, 07:28 PM
Soderling is a prick, indeed. A few years ago he bumped into Gilles Elseneer at Wimbledon while crossing each other at the net during a change over. Walked right into him, shoulder against shoulder

ReturnWinner
07-02-2007, 07:28 PM
if Soderling can beat nadal tomorrow then he will be more a hero than Berdych for Nadal haters...

Leo
07-02-2007, 07:28 PM
:worship: :worship: Robin :worship: :worship: This guy rules and he'll regroup.

RonE
07-02-2007, 07:29 PM
:haha:

First Berdych in Marid and now the Sod. :worship:

Two guys that have my respect for not taking shit from the little "darling" :rolleyes:

cmurray
07-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Soderling stopped Nadal just while he was getting ready to serve so he could change racquets. When Robin made his way back to the baseline, Nadal sort of sarcastically asked if it was okay to serve now. Then Soderling pretended to pick his drawers in response. Rafa then held serve and broke Robin in the next game. Pretty...interesting stuff.

Bremen
07-02-2007, 07:29 PM
BTW, how many times has Nadal delayed the server? Is there any match where he hasn't done this?

This is one of his tactics, yes.

mickymouse
07-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Maybe Soderling really had a wedgie?:rolleyes:

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Söderling certanly is an intensive character on the pitch, he showed no respect for Nadal at all out there. This could be a great future rivalry.

Well the only difference between the comparitive disrespect is that Soderlings is a lot more open in that it was a clear jibe at Nadal whereas the Nadal disrespect is simply in his gamesmanship style tactics of holding up the server by holding up his hand.

RonE
07-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Well Soderling was angry because at every big point just as he is about to serve...STOP! Nadal has his hand up. I mean it is not great behaviour on the court but Nadal's disrespectful actions are actually intended to effect the opponent for the next point whereas Soderling was just angry.

And at least he actually had the guts to make his opinion known :yeah:

Kuhne
07-02-2007, 07:29 PM
hahahaha...

ReturnWinner
07-02-2007, 07:30 PM
in the usopen 2005, he insulted c oria after every change of side
he had some problems with zabaleta and federer too i think
Soderling is a prick, indeed. A few years ago he bumped into Gilles Elseneer at Wimbledon while crossing each other at the net during a change over. Walked right into him, shoulder against shoulder

shotgun
07-02-2007, 07:30 PM
Not a surprise, really. Söderling gets very intense on court at times, and Nadal often rubs his opponents the wrong way. All in all, it's good for the game. :D

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 07:30 PM
...and MTF has another hero.

Congratulations.

rofe
07-02-2007, 07:30 PM
Yeah, and now Soderling looks like a total fool being broken immediately right after that. Gosh, don't get into a pissing contest if you are not mentally up to it.

Exactly. Stupid Chokerling should concentrate on his game instead of trying to play mind games with Nadal.

sawan66278
07-02-2007, 07:30 PM
At least Rafa showed his class by signing autographs as it started raining in the fifth set. Most players would have left in anger at their plight and the weather. True fan appreciation from Rafa.

the answer
07-02-2007, 07:30 PM
That was hilarious :haha: :haha: he surely pissed of Nadal.

Clara Bow
07-02-2007, 07:31 PM
The sequence of events that happened is right when Nadal was getting to serve- Robin ran from the baseline to get a new raquet. When Robin returned to the baseline Rafal held up the ball to show new balls. Robin then stepped off of the baseline and tucked on his pants. Neither player looked amused. It was interesting.

Robin does have a prick reputation but Nadal has to know that his time between points is going to bug. And that will feed into the actions by players like Robin.

he surely pissed of Nadal.

It did. Which may not have been a good thing for Robin because rafa then broke him.

For all of the kudos of Rafa being mentally strong- I actually think that in the past year or so he has let things bother him more than they used to. He seemed out of it for much of today and his game was off- making UEs that he would not normally do.

mangoes
07-02-2007, 07:31 PM
It was really not to be funny, but pure good old intense hate out there on court, Nadal was pissed of because of something and showed he was about to serve in a kind of offensive way probably because Söderling complained about it before. Söderling paid it back by picking his ass like Nadal does and make Nadal wait for a long time to serve. No player laughted, they were both pissed of at each other. I was really shocked.

:shrug: I had a laugh:lol: :lol: :lol: Nadal did have that coming given the way he held up serve prior to the incident/joke......not once, but several times.

Leo
07-02-2007, 07:31 PM
if Soderling can beat nadal tomorrow then he will be more a hero than Berdych for Nadal haters...

Oh, lighten up. I'm sure Robin's not the first player to make fun of Rafa to his face for the wedgie-picking. He should wear pants that are less tight or something. :lol: And Nadal has his own tactics during matches, so maybe this was Robin's way of trying to shake him up.

madmanfool
07-02-2007, 07:31 PM
in the usopen 2005, he insulted c oria after every change of side
he had some problems with zabaleta and federer too i think

i'm not surprised

Marek.
07-02-2007, 07:32 PM
:haha:

First Berdych in Marid and now the Sod. :worship:

Two guys that have my respect for not taking shit from the little "darling" :rolleyes:

They're horrible pricks for not showing respect to the Spartan King. How dare they make fun of his rituals!:mad:

shotgun
07-02-2007, 07:32 PM
I don't know about the Zabaleta story, but he had a problem with Federer in Halle 2005. According to Roger, Söderling smiled sarcastically to him after he hit an ace.

He had a problem with Ferrer this year, too. I think it was at Dubai.

SixPack
07-02-2007, 07:33 PM
Soderling is more immature than Berdych. Berdych got only upset at Nadal because of the fans, he doesn't have a problem with Nadal. Soderling on the other hand is disrespectful for what he did. Soderling is a very bad person. Soderling will lose the last set 6-3.

Blue Heart24
07-02-2007, 07:33 PM
Söderling certanly is an intensive character on the pitch, he showed no respect for Nadal at all out there. This could be a great future rivalry.

And he is right.
When Pig will show some respect for other players,maybe he will get it back too.

rofe
07-02-2007, 07:33 PM
Well Soderling was angry because at every big point just as he is about to serve...STOP! Nadal has his hand up. I mean it is not great behaviour on the court but Nadal's disrespectful actions are actually intended to effect the opponent for the next point whereas Soderling was just angry.

True, Nadal shows his gamesmanship in subtle ways and Chokerling should have let the umpire know instead of getting frustrated and losing his serve game.

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:33 PM
If any Nadal fan has the time of day to read this post and reply then I am asking a question which is does it bother them to see Nadal's consistent gamesmanship on big points? I mean I have seen denials of this on the boards countless times but it was more evident than ever today and eventually resulted in Soderlings reaction. I am not condoning the actions of Soderling but I would like to see what Nadal fans have to say about the Spainards actions as well as the Swede's.

ReturnWinner
07-02-2007, 07:34 PM
yes i know, Nadal antics of delaying time between almost every of his serves is pathetic
Oh, lighten up. I'm sure Robin's not the first player to make fun of Rafa to his face for the wedgie-picking. He should wear pants that are less tight or something. :lol: And Nadal has his own tactics during matches, so maybe this was Robin's way of trying to shake him up.

wipeout
07-02-2007, 07:34 PM
No matter what Rafa is doing, he's the last player you'd ever want to give more motivation. :help:

Jelena_78
07-02-2007, 07:34 PM
That was priceless!!!!:worship:
I'm going to live longer,I couldn't stop laughing for half an hour!!!
Finally someone showed him... First Soderling went to his chair when Rafa was about to serve,that's exactly what Rafa ALWAYS does to his opponents,interrupting the game and making long pauses between...
And then Robin did 'that'... :rolls: :lol: :haha: :haha: :haha:
He made my day! I'm not nervous and pi__ed off because of the rain anymore.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 07:34 PM
What is it about nadal, that players want to imitate him and antagonize him so much? :shrug:

l_mac
07-02-2007, 07:34 PM
I knew there'd be a thread about this here :lol:

Expected responses.

I can't believe Nadal didn't finish this in 3. Soderling really didn't play well the first 3 sets. Hope he gets it done quickly tomorrow.

mangoes
07-02-2007, 07:34 PM
Soderling is more immature than Berdych. Berdych got only upset at Nadal because of the fans, he doesn't have a problem with Nadal. Soderling on the other hand is disrespectful for what he did. Soderling is a very bad person. Soderling will lose the last set 6-3.

Who says Berdych doesn't have a problem with Nadal??? :lol: :lol::p :p

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:35 PM
Soderling is more immature than Berdych. Berdych got only upset at Nadal because of the fans, he doesn't have a problem with Nadal. Soderling on the other hand is disrespectful for what he did. Soderling is a very bad person. Soderling will lose the last set 6-3.

:lol: Rafa, is that you?

Oh, and Berdych does have some problems with Nadal or at least he did in Madrid. His jumping up and down when he reached MP in the breaker was an imitation of Nadal.

rocketassist
07-02-2007, 07:35 PM
That was funny. I enjoy matches with personal aggro and confrontation. I hope there's pushing and shoving at the end :lol:

SwiSha
07-02-2007, 07:36 PM
No matter what Rafa is doing, he's the last player you'd ever want to give more motivation. :help:

ditto

Soder has achieved nothing in his career so far, u wanna be the clown go head, he will always be known as a choker anyways

mamasue
07-02-2007, 07:36 PM
Glad the fedtards have a new hero!! Wow, he's ranked what, 28th? Woohooo!! :rolleyes:

And thank you Pimms for my new found posting style!! :devil:

Leo
07-02-2007, 07:37 PM
What is it about nadal, that players want to imitate him and antagonize him so much? :shrug:

He definitely doesn't inspire the type of respect that Roger does. :lol:

l_mac
07-02-2007, 07:37 PM
If any Nadal fan has the time of day to read this post and reply then I am asking a question which is does it bother them to see Nadal's consistent gamesmanship on big points? I mean I have seen denials of this on the boards countless times but it was more evident than ever today and eventually resulted in Soderlings reaction. I am not condoning the actions of Soderling but I would like to see what Nadal fans have to say about the Spainards actions as well as the Swede's.

I didn't really notice it today, but I'm not the most objective of Nadal fans. I would argue that it's not gamesmanship in that I genuinely don't believe Rafa does it it to upset the opponent. He's entirely focussed on himself during his matches.

Soderling came off as a total asshole today, then made himself look like a stupid asshole by winning only one of the next 8 points :lol:

RonE
07-02-2007, 07:37 PM
They're horrible pricks for not showing respect to the Spartan King. How dare they make fun of his rituals!:mad:

Yes of course. Shame on me for even entertaining the thought. To the gallows with the both of them :mad: ;)

Who says Berdych doesn't have a problem with Nadal??? :lol: :lol::p :p

:devil:

Dina
07-02-2007, 07:37 PM
and out of the cracks they come like maggots feasting on a carcass...

Or Levy
07-02-2007, 07:37 PM
Hey, how about a link for those of us who missed it?

This sounds HYSTERICAL.

Andy Andy
07-02-2007, 07:38 PM
:shrug: I had a laugh:lol: :lol: :lol: Nadal did have that coming given the way he held up serve prior to the incident/joke......not once, but several times.
:lol: I agree, Tennis needs diversity in all its forms. Though that only motivates Rafa to do better.:devil:

Stensland
07-02-2007, 07:38 PM
any videos? i haven't seen it so far...

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:38 PM
What is it about nadal, that players want to imitate him and antagonize him so much? :shrug:

The stare-downs, the opponent directed fist-pumps and the constant hand-up, start your service action again, routine.

Marek.
07-02-2007, 07:38 PM
Oh, and Berdych does have some problems with Nadal or at least he did in Madrid. His jumping up and down when he reached MP in the breaker was an imitation of Nadal.

:lol: I remember that. He kind of sprinted forward while pumping his fist.

cmurray
07-02-2007, 07:39 PM
Yes. And Soderling sure showed Rafa - by immediately getting broken. Good tactics there. :yeah:

Blue Heart24
07-02-2007, 07:39 PM
Glad the fedtards have a new hero!! Wow, he's ranked what, 28th? Woohooo!! :rolleyes:

And thank you Pimms for my new found posting style!! :devil:

Yes,Toad is my new hero :worship:

But am I a Fed tard? :angel: :rolleyes: :o

Leen.
07-02-2007, 07:39 PM
video please!

CyBorg
07-02-2007, 07:39 PM
Yeah, and now Soderling looks like a total fool being broken immediately right after that. Gosh, don't get into a pissing contest if you are not mentally up to it.

This is true. It would have been great had Soderling kept his head in the match. He didn't.

SwiSha
07-02-2007, 07:41 PM
Yes. And Soderling sure showed Rafa - by immediately getting broken. Good tactics there. :yeah:

that says it all :lol:

frenchie
07-02-2007, 07:41 PM
I can't wait to see that!

Nadal is ridiculous picking up his ass. If I was his opponent I'd refuse to shake his disgusting hand

mallorn
07-02-2007, 07:41 PM
Childish and disrespectful behaviour from Soderling.

I'm not surprised the usual suspects find it funny. :retard:

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:42 PM
I would argue that it's not gamesmanship in that I genuinely don't believe Rafa does it it to upset the opponent.
I usually try to be as objective as I possibly can and also treat posters with some respect (pther than total trolls, you are not one) but this is simply ridiculous. If you honestly think that it is just chance that Nadal does it on every big point and never seems to have problems when it is unimportant then you really aren't objective. I am sorry but take off the rose tinted specs mate. I will be the first to admit that many (if not all) of my favourites have done dodgy things in their time but if you can't admit that Nadal uses tactis like this to gain a mental advantage then I shouldn't debate with you about anything any longer.

LinkMage
07-02-2007, 07:43 PM
I wonder why all these players have a problem only with Nadal. Maybe it has something to do with Nadal and not Soderling and Berdych being pricks.

CyBorg
07-02-2007, 07:44 PM
Soderling is more immature than Berdych. Berdych got only upset at Nadal because of the fans, he doesn't have a problem with Nadal. Soderling on the other hand is disrespectful for what he did. Soderling is a very bad person. Soderling will lose the last set 6-3.

:haha:

l_mac
07-02-2007, 07:44 PM
I usually try to be as objective as I possibly can and also treat posters with some respect (pther than total trolls, you are not one) but this is simply ridiculous. If you honestly think that it is just chance that Nadal does it on every big point and never seems to have problems when it is unimportant then you really aren't objective. I am sorry but take off the rose tinted specs mate. I will be the first to admit that many (if not all) of my favourites have done dodgy things in their time but if you can't admit that Nadal uses tactis like this to gain a mental advantage then I shouldn't debate with you about anything any longer.

Well, I'll try to carry on with my life regardless. It'll be hard.

I'll examine every. big. point. very carefully in his next match.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 07:44 PM
No surprise here...after all, he is the Toad. Then again, it was bound to happen as some of the less mentally tough players out there would lose it when playing Nadal. 40 seconds between big points, 15 seconds between faults sometimes, the constant slow play, the delays....Soderling couldn't take it anymore, lost his concentration and then lost serve.

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 07:45 PM
Piggy is pissing half of the tour (and tennis viewers as well) with his delaying tricks... Once in a while an opponent dares give him some stuff back...

:yeah: Sodi :cool:

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:45 PM
Childish and disrespectful behaviour from Soderling.

I'm not surprised the usual suspects find it funny. :retard:

I have always found you to be an excellent poster as well as an ardent Nadal fan Mallorn. I would be thankful if you could take the time to answer this post:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=5609500&postcount=39

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 07:45 PM
If any Nadal fan has the time of day to read this post and reply then I am asking a question which is does it bother them to see Nadal's consistent gamesmanship on big points?
I'm the wrong person to answer this:

1) I'm a JMac fan so I guess that I don't have that much of a problem with gamesmanship. ;)
As a fan of JMac and recognizing his tantrums as gamesmanship, I don't see what Rafa's doing as gamesmanship as such. He delays play when he's under pressure, that's true. But that's not pure gamesmanship.
2) I didn't see it.

But you don't expect a reasonable conversation about Rafael Nadal on MTF, do you? So, what's the point.

RonE
07-02-2007, 07:46 PM
I wonder why all these players have a problem only with Nadal. Maybe it has something to do with Nadal and not Soderling and Berdych being pricks.

Well regardless of how many more players Nadal ends up pissing off it is never his fault. The little darling couldn't possibly do anything to provoke or antagonize his opposition because he is so sweet and innocent. Unthinkable, really! :rolleyes:

dylan24
07-02-2007, 07:46 PM
cmon toad
finish off the pig tomorrow

Sunset of Age
07-02-2007, 07:46 PM
The sequence of events that happened is right when Nadal was getting to serve- Robin ran from the baseline to get a new raquet. When Robin returned to the baseline Rafal held up the ball to show new balls. Robin then stepped off of the baseline and tucked on his pants. Neither player looked amused. It was interesting.

Robin does have a prick reputation but Nadal has to know that his time between points is going to bug. And that will feed into the actions by players like Robin.

Thanks for this balanced, unbiased view. That's what I saw happening as well.

Both players didn't actually behave like grown-ups, and both should have a good look at the mirror tonight on what they were doing.
Rafa should STOP with the deliberate slowing down (I've seen that hand of him going up more than once today, even if the BBC only showed little pieces of that match) - and Robin should know very well better than to react as childish as he did.

This is sad. Just sad.

shotgun
07-02-2007, 07:47 PM
Yeah, Söderling is an asshole and needs to grow up. Nadal hasn't done anything to rub him the wrong way.

Good to see some things here never change. :yeah:

And this is my last post on this thread before anyone accuses me of entering the fray. Have fun pointing fingers. :wavey:

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:48 PM
I'll examine every. big. point. very carefully in his next match.

Well I can assure you that it won't happen if he cruises through a match 2, 2 and 2 but if you see the continuation of this match getting close tomorrow then I can assure you that it will happen.

rofe
07-02-2007, 07:48 PM
No surprise here...after all, he is the Toad. Then again, it was bound to happen as some of the less mentally tough players out there would lose it when playing Nadal. 40 seconds between big points, 15 seconds between faults sometimes, the constant slow play, the delays....Soderling couldn't take it anymore, lost his concentration and then lost serve.

It is actually akin to the woman players turning their back on the opponent between points and jumping up and down endlessly. It gets me irritated as a spectator - imagine how the player would feel.

Shabazza
07-02-2007, 07:48 PM
What are you happy about?! :confused:
Nadal got exactly what he wanted by delaying points with his 'hand-up' and evrything. Söderling got angry, lost focus and got broken in the deciding set. It was just plain stupid from Söderling and just shows why he'll never be a top player. A poor decision by him, which most likely cost him the match. As if Nadal would get intimidated by something like that. You can only get to Nadal by putting him under constant pressure while PLAYING like Berdych or Blake does. Mind games won't work on him. He'll be the one coming out on top everytime in that departement.

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 07:49 PM
IMHO, if you wanted to see pure gamesmanship, you should have watched Serena's match.

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 07:50 PM
You can only get to Nadal by putting him under constant pressure while PLAYING like Berdych or Blake does. Mind games won't work on him. He'll be the one coming out on top everytime in that departement.
Exactly. The way to drag Nadal out of his comfort zone is by playing like Berdych or Blake.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 07:50 PM
Thanks for this balanced, unbiased view. That's what I saw happening as well.

Both players didn't actually behave like grown-ups, and both should have a good look at the mirror tonight on what they were doing.
Rafa should STOP with the deliberate slowing down (I've seen that hand of him going up more than once today, even if the BBC only showed little pieces of that match) - and Robin should know very well better than to react as childish as he did.

This is sad. Just sad.

It's not sad at all. It's part of competitive sports. People rub each other the wrong way, testosterone gets involved, egos are challenged and we get great theatre. Even though it may look childish and what not, it's probably good for the sport as a means of generating more fan interest.

RonE
07-02-2007, 07:50 PM
Yeah, Söderling is an asshole and needs to grow up. Nadal hasn't done anything to rub him the wrong way.


Of course. Just like in Madrid last year. He was sweetness personified and it was his opponent who was being the prick :shrug:

tennis2tennis
07-02-2007, 07:50 PM
Glad the fedtards have a new hero!! Wow, he's ranked what, 28th? Woohooo!! :rolleyes:

And thank you Pimms for my new found posting style!! :devil:

it ain't about a new hero, I love nadal too but am not gonna be a hypocrite and complain about other players without acknowledging nadal does it!

why are some people gettin' hot n' bothered over Söderling's behaviour nadal deploys delay tactics in EVERY MATCH HE'S PLAYED...nadal does it so many times people no longer think its an issue so long as nobody else does!

Clara Bow
07-02-2007, 07:51 PM
I am not condoning the actions of Soderling but I would like to see what Nadal fans have to say about the Spainards actions as well as the Swede's.

Well- I do think that Nadal takes too long between points. I wish he would take less time. He was doing better earLier this year- but has slowed down again. Since Toni advised him since he was little to take time between points- I think that it is more internally motivated. I feel that for himself, he takes the time more to gather his thoughts rather than to disrupt his opponents most of the time. That stated- it does disrupt his opponents so even if he does do it to gather his thoughts he has to realize that unless he is playing someone like Massu or Verdasco who also take a good amount of time- it will piss them off. And could be getting him an advantage.

As a fan, I can admit that I really wish he would take less time between points- and he definitely has quirks that are easy to mock. That does not mean that I think his opponents need to be jackasses. But since Soderling has a history with other players as well, I am not surprised.

Meh- Rafa should not have even been in that situation in the first place since he had the open court on match point. He was obviously flustered out there today and needs to get his act together if he hopes to progress. And hopefully not be a :baby: about this match afterwards in the presser- regardless of the outcome.

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 07:51 PM
It's not sad at all. It's part of competitive sports. People rub each other the wrong way, testosterone gets involved, egos are challenged and we get great theatre. Even though it may look childish and what not, it's probably good for the sport as a means of generating more fan interest.
Exactly. It's part of the game.

Connors vs John McEnroe...that was pure drama! I loved it.

MCL
07-02-2007, 07:51 PM
Rafa: I win now, no? :angel: :devil:

RonE
07-02-2007, 07:51 PM
It's not sad at all. It's part of competitive sports. People rub each other the wrong way, testosterone gets involved, egos are challenged and we get great theatre. Even though it may look childish and what not, it's probably good for the sport as a means of generating more fan interest.

Damn right :yeah:

betowiec
07-02-2007, 07:51 PM
Soderling is a mother fucking piece of shit. I will upload the video later if someone else doesn't. I hate that asshole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

where is your sense of humor rafatard?

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:52 PM
I'm the wrong person to answer this:

1) I'm a JMac fan so I guess that I don't have that much of a problem with gamesmanship. ;)
As a fan of JMac and recognizing his tantrums as gamesmanship, I don't see what Rafa's doing as gamesmanship as such. He delays play when he's under pressure, that's true. But that's not pure gamesmanship.
2) I didn't see it.

But you don't expect a reasonable conversation about Rafael Nadal on MTF, do you? So, what's the point.
As far as not seeing it goes it doesn't matter, as a fan of Nadal I am sure you know what I mean, it is not specific to this match.

I actually disagree, the JMac tantrums happen because JMac gets upset (although nowadays he probably has to do them to please a crowd). The Nadal slowing down of play happens because Nadal wants to disrupt the opponents play. I would say that the JMac thing is far less gamesmanship than the Nadal thing although of course the JMac thing is far more ridiculous and embarrasing it is nothing to do with trying to win a match, it is to do with his emotions and his lack of control. Nadal is trying to gain MORE control with his actions.

Note: Thanks for a response.

betowiec
07-02-2007, 07:52 PM
Rafa: I win now, no? :angel: :devil:

:)

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 07:52 PM
It is actually akin to the woman players turning their back on the opponent between points and jumping up and down endlessly. It gets me irritated as a spectator - imagine how the player would feel.

Yup. Watching a match with delay tactics when in the stands is unbearable. My brother was at the Misha/Rafa QF at the USO and in the 3rd set when things were tight, Nadal was taking 30 seconds between points and sometimes 40. It's tough to sit through.

Nadal has sped up play this year, but he still slows things down on big points which is OK until you cross the line into the 30 and 40 second range.

scarecrows
07-02-2007, 07:52 PM
not a right timing to do that Soders, you should have waited the end of match like Berdman

l_mac
07-02-2007, 07:52 PM
Well I can assure you that it won't happen if he cruises through a match 2, 2 and 2 but if you see the continuation of this match getting close tomorrow then I can assure you that it will happen.

Okay. I'm suprised you saw so much gamesmanship in the match today. I didn't think there were that many "big" points until the 3rd set tiebreak.

Getting Nadal annoyed was definitely the stupidest thing Soderling could have done. He was on top after winning the 3rd set, and coping much better with the conditions while Rafa was complaining about the surface and asking the umpire how much longer they'd have to play :lol:

cmurray
07-02-2007, 07:53 PM
I usually try to be as objective as I possibly can and also treat posters with some respect (pther than total trolls, you are not one) but this is simply ridiculous. If you honestly think that it is just chance that Nadal does it on every big point and never seems to have problems when it is unimportant then you really aren't objective. I am sorry but take off the rose tinted specs mate. I will be the first to admit that many (if not all) of my favourites have done dodgy things in their time but if you can't admit that Nadal uses tactis like this to gain a mental advantage then I shouldn't debate with you about anything any longer.

I've always thought of the extra time Nadal takes on big points as a way to collect himself. He often wins matches relying on his mental toughness - I just don't see him thinking "I'm gonna take some extra time and hope he chokes", I think its more like "OK Rafa. You can do this. Just one more point..." :shrug:

It doesn't necessarily mean that its right, of course. I wish he wouldn't do it - I simply don't think its as nefarious as his haters make it out to be.

l_mac
07-02-2007, 07:54 PM
I've always thought of the extra time Nadal takes on big points as a way to collect himself. He often wins matches relying on his mental toughness - I just don't see him thinking "I'm gonna take some extra time and hope he chokes", I think its more like "OK Rafa. You can do this. Just one more point..." :shrug:

It doesn't necessarily mean that its right, of course. I wish he wouldn't do it - I simply don't think its as nefarious as his haters make it out to be.


I agree.

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:54 PM
Well- I do think that Nadal takes too long between points. I wish he would take less time. He was doing better earLier this year- but has slowed down again. Since Toni advised him since he was little to take time between points- I think that it is more internally motivated. I feel that for himself, he takes the time more to gather his thoughts rather than to disrupt his opponents most of the time. That stated- it does disrupt his opponents so even if he does do it to gather his thoughts he has to realize that unless he is playing someone like Massu or Verdasco who also take a good amount of time- it will piss them off. And could be getting him an advantage.

The time taking between points is internally motivated I agree but putting a hand up as an opponent is about to serve surely cannot be construed as such.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 07:54 PM
As far as not seeing it goes it doesn't matter, as a fan of Nadal I am sure you know what I mean, it is not specific to this match.

I actually disagree, the JMac tantrums happen because JMac gets upset (although nowadays he probably has to do them to please a crowd). The Nadal slowing down of play happens because Nadal wants to disrupt the opponents play. I would say that the JMac thing is far less gamesmanship than the Nadal thing although of course the JMac thing is far more ridiculous and embarrasing it is nothing to do with trying to win a match, it is to do with his emotions and his lack of control. Nadal is trying to gain MORE control with his actions.

Note: Thanks for a response.

This is true. McEnroe just couldn't control himself and it didn't matter whether he was winning or losing. He could be up 2 sets on some scrub in the 3rd round of the USO, double fault, miss a volley, see a camera flash while serving and then totally lose it. He did use gamesmanship in other ways, but the big explosions were because of his childish inability to control himself. It wasn't a case of slowing down play on big points.

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:55 PM
IMHO, if you wanted to see pure gamesmanship, you should have watched Serena's match.

If that was pure gamesmanship then Serena should definately become an actress. Screaming like she was I find it hard to believe she was feeling on top of the world.

yana
07-02-2007, 07:56 PM
And to think that in the "Soderling" thread people already send him home ;)

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 07:56 PM
Childish and disrespectful behaviour from Soderling.

I'm not surprised the usual suspects find it funny. :retard:

I didn't see the match.

So, are you saying that nadal did not do anything gamesmanship-y to elicit that response from him? I'm trying to see every side's interpretation of the events since I did not watch it.

mallorn
07-02-2007, 07:57 PM
I have always found you to be an excellent poster as well as an ardent Nadal fan Mallorn. I would be thankful if you could take the time to answer this post:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=5609500&postcount=39
Well, since you've asked so nicely... ;)

I guess by "consistant gamesmanship" you mean the standard accusation of slowing down play and holding his hand up, right? :scratch:

He is slower when he's behind but as long as he's within the time limit you can't call it gamesmanship and if he isn't, the umpire should give him a warning. There is no rule saying he has to play all points at the same pace, is there? It just says "at the server's pace" - whatever it is. If he needs more time to focus when he's a BP down but stays withing the time limit, it's his right.

As for holding his hand up, it's mostly when there's noise or some movement in the public as he's about to receive.

stebs
07-02-2007, 07:57 PM
I've always thought of the extra time Nadal takes on big points as a way to collect himself. He often wins matches relying on his mental toughness - I just don't see him thinking "I'm gonna take some extra time and hope he chokes", I think its more like "OK Rafa. You can do this. Just one more point..." :shrug:

It doesn't necessarily mean that its right, of course. I wish he wouldn't do it - I simply don't think its as nefarious as his haters make it out to be.

Nobody seems to understand me. The time between points I can accept. It is actually the thing which is against the rules and he should've been warned today but that's another story.

What I am reffering to is putting his hand up and stopping his opponent midway through a service routine. He stands at the baseline, bends down and gets ready then...STOP, he breaks the rythm.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 07:58 PM
IMHO, if you wanted to see pure gamesmanship, you should have watched Serena's match.

I watched that match. I saw her calf, it was stuck in tense muscle mode. That is gamesmanship to you? How can anyone "act" like that?!

Dina
07-02-2007, 07:58 PM
soderling should have complained to the umpire about excessive time

Shabazza
07-02-2007, 07:59 PM
I didn't see the match.

So, are you saying that nadal did not do anything gamesmanship-y to elicit that response from him? I'm trying to see every side's interpretation of the events since I did not watch it.

Sorry, totally off topic I know, but everytime I see your Sig I get sick. Some people are dumber than bread...:rolleyes:

l_mac
07-02-2007, 07:59 PM
I watched that match. I saw her calf, it was stuck in tense muscle mode. That is gamesmanship to you? How can anyone "act" like that?!

Didn't she want to take a toilet break, and then change her mind?

SwiSha
07-02-2007, 07:59 PM
What are you happy about?! :confused:
Nadal got exactly what he wanted by delaying points with his 'hand-up' and evrything. Söderling got angry, lost focus and got broken in the deciding set. It was just plain stupid from Söderling and just shows why he'll never be a top player. A poor decision by him, which most likely cost him the match. As if Nadal would get intimidated by something like that. You can only get to Nadal by putting him under constant pressure while PLAYING like Berdych or Blake does. Mind games won't work on him. He'll be the one coming out on top everytime in that departement.

:yeah:

Sunset of Age
07-02-2007, 07:59 PM
It's not sad at all. It's part of competitive sports. People rub each other the wrong way, testosterone gets involved, egos are challenged and we get great theatre. Even though it may look childish and what not, it's probably good for the sport as a means of generating more fan interest.

I happen to disagree. I think it IS sad. If I, as a tennis fan, would want to see childish behaviour like this, I'd consider becoming a fan of Dutch football. :angel:

no problem though, each to their own.

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 07:59 PM
As far as not seeing it goes it doesn't matter, as a fan of Nadal I am sure you know what I mean, it is not specific to this match.
I think it's more fair to talk about this when having seen this particular incident and what went on leading up to it.

I actually disagree, the JMac tantrums happen because JMac gets upset
oh no, JMac would do it deliberately from time to time to get players out of their comfort zone. Ask Lendl. I've seen John McEnroe do it time and time again with an utterly annoyed Lendl plucking at his eye lashes.
Connors was one of the few players to call him out on it on court. Hence their difficult relationship.


The Nadal slowing down of play happens because Nadal wants to disrupt the opponents play.
The way you've wrote that, it seems that you've made up your mind about it.

Like others have said, if he takes too much time, he needs to get a warning or a penalty for it.
Having read interviews with Toni about it. Rafa tended to rush things when he was a boy and Toni would build in little tricks to slow him down. It's my opinion that he still does that in moments of pressure and it's less to do with deliberately trying to disrupt the other player but more to do with his own focus when under pressure.

l_mac
07-02-2007, 07:59 PM
soderling should have complained to the umpire about excessive time


I think the umpire mentioned to Nadal at one point during a changeover.

guga2120
07-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Soderling immitating Nadal is not that big of deal, it will make the rest of match intresting, but I still can not believe Nadal lost 2 sets to this clown, weather or not.

stebs
07-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Well, since you've asked so nicely... ;)

I guess by "consistant gamesmanship" you mean the standard accusation of slowing down play and holding his hand up, right? :scratch:

He is slower when he's behind but as long as he's within the time limit you can't call it gamesmanship and if he isn't, the umpire should give him a warning. There is no rule saying he has to play all points at the same pace, is there? It just says "at the server's pace" - whatever it is. If he needs more time to focus when he's a BP down but stays withing the time limit, it's his right.

As for holding his hand up, it's mostly when there's noise or some movement in the public as he's about to receive.

The slowing down play is more an irritation as a viewer than anything else. That is not gamesmanship even when he goes over 20 seconds as I feel it is internally motivated as stated by a previous replier.

The holding his hand up thing is what I was referring to and you give your response to that as well which I am grateful for. I disagree completely as to what you posted but thanks anyway for posting something about it.

Neely
07-02-2007, 08:00 PM
any videos? i haven't seen it so far...
Was a video already posted? I can if somebody is telling me the exact score and set as it happened.

Sunset of Age
07-02-2007, 08:00 PM
I think the umpire mentioned to Nadal at one point during a changeover.

He did, but umpires should have the balls to not just warn him, but to give out penalties as well. Even if it concerns Rafa, it's still against the rules of the game.

mallorn
07-02-2007, 08:01 PM
I didn't see the match.

So, are you saying that nadal did not do anything gamesmanship-y to elicit that response from him? I'm trying to see every side's interpretation of the events since I did not watch it.
At the very start of the fourth set there was a change of balls. Rafa got to the baseline and was about to serve but when he looked up Soderling wasn't there - he'd gone to change the racquet. When he came back, Rafa showed him a ball and said "New balls". At this point Soderling moved away from the baseline and tugged at his shorts. Then they stared each other down (not for the first time in the match).

l_mac
07-02-2007, 08:01 PM
It was right at the start of the 5th set. Nadal was about to serve the 1st point.

tennis2tennis
07-02-2007, 08:01 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

where is your sense of humor rafatard?

some where in nadal's wedgy!

SwiSha
07-02-2007, 08:01 PM
I watched that match. I saw her calf, it was stuck in tense muscle mode. That is gamesmanship to you? How can anyone "act" like that?!

academy award performance.. .

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:02 PM
Nobody seems to understand me. The time between points I can accept. It is actually the thing which is against the rules and he should've been warned today but that's another story.

What I am reffering to is putting his hand up and stopping his opponent midway through a service routine. He stands at the baseline, bends down and gets ready then...STOP, he breaks the rythm.

Actually, I have NEVER seen Nadal stop somebody serving in the middle of their service motion. I have seen him put his hand up while his opponent is bouncing the ball while he tries to prepare himself for the next point, but I haven't EVER seen him pull a Henin. If you would be so kind as to direct me to your examples of his doing this "all the time", I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:02 PM
He is slower when he's behind but as long as he's within the time limit you can't call it gamesmanship and if he isn't, the umpire should give him a warning. There is no rule saying he has to play all points at the same pace, is there? It just says "at the server's pace" - whatever it is. If he needs more time to focus when he's a BP down but stays withing the time limit, it's his right.


Just FYI and F everyone's I, gamesmanship is ALWAYS about being within the rules, but bending them to your advantage. If it wasn't, then the umpire would have stopped nadal and this thread would not have reduced to what it has.

I don't think anyone has said it's not anyone's right to hold up your hand and delay play. Gamesmanship means using tactics at times, and in ways, when you are trying to affect play in an unsportsmanlike manner, but doing it so that you are technically within the rules.

That said, I did not see this match so I cannot speak for who was doing what.

mickymouse
07-02-2007, 08:02 PM
I've always thought of the extra time Nadal takes on big points as a way to collect himself. He often wins matches relying on his mental toughness - I just don't see him thinking "I'm gonna take some extra time and hope he chokes", I think its more like "OK Rafa. You can do this. Just one more point..." :shrug:

It doesn't necessarily mean that its right, of course. I wish he wouldn't do it - I simply don't think its as nefarious as his haters make it out to be.

There's nothing wrong with him trying to stay focussed but it's unfair to his opponent whose concentration gets disrupted because of it.I only saw two points of the match and it was the last two points of the 3rd set tiebreak. He was already in position waiting for Soderling to serve it out and suddenly, inexplicably, he raised his hand to stop play. I can understand that it's a big point and he wants to stay focussed but he has to remember that his opponent needs to stay focussed too.

tennis2tennis
07-02-2007, 08:03 PM
soderling should have complained to the umpire about excessive time

a handful of players did that already this season, but nothing happens, nadal is so fucking talented he doesn't need this shit to spoil his victories!

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:04 PM
I wish he wouldn't do it - I simply don't think its as nefarious as his haters make it out to be.

Interesting how Rafatards see arrogance in Federer even when he's sleeping but on the other hand are totally blind at the disgusting behaviors their fave often has... :o

scarecrows
07-02-2007, 08:05 PM
all haters :ras:

Rafa will win this match and not lose a set the whole tournament

madmanfool
07-02-2007, 08:05 PM
academy award performance.. .

What i don't understand is why she had to be on the ground screaming? For cramp in your calf? give me a break. And why did it take so long for the injury time out 3 min to start ?

Dina
07-02-2007, 08:05 PM
thwe he should have complained again, instead he acted like a complete dick, I feel no sympathy for him

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:05 PM
all haters :ras:

Rafa will win this match and not lose a set the whole tournament

Too late.

yana
07-02-2007, 08:05 PM
Soderling immitating Nadal is not that big of deal, it will make the rest of match intresting, but I still can not believe Nadal lost 2 sets to this clown, weather or not.

When the rain stop the match when one is about to win it one can lose focus, right? And the other changes tactics.

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 08:06 PM
I love nadal too
yeah, right.

TMJordan
07-02-2007, 08:06 PM
That was one of the funniest things I have ever seen. :haha:

:worship: Robin

Please do it tommorow!

RickDaStick
07-02-2007, 08:06 PM
Vamos Soderdick. Next time Rafa stalls, go over the net and beat him over the head with your racket.

l_mac
07-02-2007, 08:07 PM
Interesting how Rafatards see arrogance in Federer even when he's sleeping but on the other hand are totally blind at the disgusting behaviors their fave often has... :o

:lol:

The bestbest thing about MTF is the way people make sweeping generalisations, which are often hypocritical and frequently completely off topic. This thread isn't about Fed.

aussie_fan
07-02-2007, 08:07 PM
:worship: going to have to see a clip of this.

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:08 PM
yeah, right.

Just like you and Mallorn are so-called unbiased tennis fans...

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:08 PM
Interesting how Rafatards see arrogance in Federer even when he's sleeping but on the other hand are totally blind at the disgusting behaviors their fave often has... :o

:hug: Awww...you need a glass of warm milk and a nap. It'll be alright.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:08 PM
academy award performance.. .


Believe me, I have seen her act in tv shows. She is not a good actress. And since I saw this match, I feel sympathy for the killer-instinct-less Hantuchova, but I did not see Serena with any gamesmanship. That last set was idiotic. She barely did any running. She served huge, went for winners off serves, etc.

mallorn
07-02-2007, 08:08 PM
The slowing down play is more an irritation as a viewer than anything else. That is not gamesmanship even when he goes over 20 seconds as I feel it is internally motivated as stated by a previous replier.

The holding his hand up thing is what I was referring to and you give your response to that as well which I am grateful for. I disagree completely as to what you posted but thanks anyway for posting something about it.
Ok...

I would just like to point out that we can't really tell on TV whether or not someone moves behind the server, so it's a matter of giving the receiver the benefit of the doubt. I'm absolutely certain though that today Rafa held up his hand when the noise hadn't died down when he was about to receive.

scarecrows
07-02-2007, 08:08 PM
Too late.

the whole rest of tournament I mean

MurrayFan1
07-02-2007, 08:09 PM
Can somebody post a link to this? I haven't seen it.

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 08:09 PM
academy award performance.. .

Exactly. She had cramps but the way she acted? Come on.

SwiSha
07-02-2007, 08:09 PM
What i don't understand is why she had to be on the ground screaming? For cramp in your calf? give me a break. And why did it take so long for the injury time out 3 min to start ?

exactly .. she was acting like she was dying or something, what a whiny little diva.. just loves the attention

SwiSha
07-02-2007, 08:09 PM
Exactly. She had cramps but the way she acted? Come on.

only way to make the news i guess :lol:

stebs
07-02-2007, 08:09 PM
Actually, I have NEVER seen Nadal stop somebody serving in the middle of their service motion. I have seen him put his hand up while his opponent is bouncing the ball while he tries to prepare himself for the next point, but I haven't EVER seen him pull a Henin. If you would be so kind as to direct me to your examples of his doing this "all the time", I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Service routine is not service motion. Service routine is what was posted and includes the ball bouncing. This post by mickymouse sums it up well:

There's nothing wrong with him trying to stay focussed but it's unfair to his opponent whose concentration gets disrupted because of it.I only saw two points of the match and it was the last two points of the 3rd set tiebreak. He was already in position waiting for Soderling to serve it out and suddenly, inexplicably, he raised his hand to stop play. I can understand that it's a big point and he wants to stay focussed but he has to remember that his opponent needs to stay focussed too.

Andre'sNo1Fan
07-02-2007, 08:09 PM
Interesting how Rafatards see arrogance in Federer even when he's sleeping but on the other hand are totally blind at the disgusting behaviors their fave often has... :o
:haha: Coming from the blindest fan of all :retard:

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:10 PM
What i don't understand is why she had to be on the ground screaming? For cramp in your calf? give me a break. And why did it take so long for the injury time out 3 min to start ?

Have you really never had a cramp that makes you wince loudly? I have. They can be very painful and nothing you do can un-tense your calf muscle (and I have a large ugly one so I know) except time.

Do you honestly believe, that at one set a piece and 5-all in the 2nd, there was a reason for Serena to pretend to cramp?! I mean, she was not down. She was LEADING.

guga2120
07-02-2007, 08:12 PM
Exactly. She had cramps but the way she acted? Come on. it won't matter Henin is going to own her, the only way somebody like Serena could beat Justine would be b/c of the grass, but even is she was somewhat faking it really will not matter.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:12 PM
Exactly. She had cramps but the way she acted? Come on.
With a picture of McEnroe in your avatar, to see you berate Serena for the way she ACTED, priceless. :D

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 08:12 PM
Do you honestly believe, that at one set a piece and 5-all in the 2nd, there was a reason for Serena to pretend to cramp?! I mean, she was not down. She was LEADING.
The show started when she was in trouble in the second set.

I've seen a lot of people with cramps. Heck, I've had my share of very painful cramps due to having a foot problem. Screaming like that with cramps is show.

stebs
07-02-2007, 08:12 PM
Ok...

I would just like to point out that we can't really tell on TV whether or not someone moves behind the server, so it's a matter of giving the receiver the benefit of the doubt. I'm absolutely certain though that today Rafa held up his hand when the noise hadn't died down when he was about to receive.

Not that I want a debate about something we clearly disagree on and which neither of us can prove our correctness but I have a hard time giving the receiever the benefit of the doubt when it happens 5+ times in a match all on important points and has also happened many times in other fiery and intense encounters I have watched with Nadal.

Note: I do not hate Nadal, the only thing about him I dislike is what I perceieve to be gamesmanship. Many posters will asume that because I am a Federer fan I wish him harm but that is not the case, I just want to put it out there so that responses aren't coming at me from the standpoint of people thinking I am a "hater".

tennis2tennis
07-02-2007, 08:12 PM
yeah, right.

I do I met him twice in Monte Carlo, he's really quite nice guy... I have respect for his talent (not into his style though)just 'cause I love federer doesn't mean i have to hate nadal (never understood that logic!), some things nadal does grate me though..the vamos on an apponents double fault, the delay tactics, the over 20 seconds to serve violations, those little things spoil him...a bit like Michael Schumacher in F1

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:13 PM
:haha: Coming from the blindest fan of all :retard:

I was wondering if you were too pissed at Soderling to even dare venture on here... :wavey:

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 08:13 PM
With a picture of McEnroe in your avatar, to see you berate Serena for the way she ACTED, priceless. :D
I never claimed that JMac is perfect. I admit that some of his tantrums were pure show.:wavey:

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:13 PM
Service routine is not service motion. Service routine is what was posted and includes the ball bouncing. This post by mickymouse sums it up well:

Um...okay??? :shrug: Usually when he raises his hand, its because the fans are still making noise. My only actual complaint about it is that he's supposed to play at the server's pace.

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:14 PM
I do I met him twice in Monte Carlo, he's really quite nice guy... I have respect for his talent (not into his style though)just 'cause I love federer doesn't mean i have to hate nadal (never understood that logic!), some things nadal does grate me though..the vamos on an apponents double fault, the delay tactics, the over 20 seconds to serve violations, those little things spoil him...a bit like Michael Schumacher in F1

How dare you compare a sport genius to a grinder ? :o

tangerine_dream
07-02-2007, 08:14 PM
Who said tennis needed more characters?

Clara Bow
07-02-2007, 08:14 PM
People rub each other the wrong way, testosterone gets involved

Not just testosterone. Serena is very good at giving her opponents "oh no you didn't!" looks and then rocking out in her playing.

At the end of the day- even as a Rafa fan, I thought it was a little funny. Was it classy by Robin- heck no. And I hope he loses for sure. But as one who still wishes that I had recorded the Hewitt/Coria Davis Cup hijinks I found it riviting stuff. I am not saying that I always want to see mocking or taunting- but every once in a while, it reminds you that this can be a very competitive sport with feelings whirling around out there.

I have to disagree with the feeling that JMacs tantrums were not really gamesmanship. They likely were not sometimes- but for example, during the rather imfamous match (in its day) against one of the Gullickson brothers where it appears that he was during it just to disrupt play and therefore rattle the opponent.

I do have to say- that even after all of the emotion and frustration of today's amtch- it was nice to see Nadal sign autos for these kids as the rain was falling. I can see why Rafa rubs folks the wrong way when he is on the court, but I do feel off the court- he is a pretty nice guy.

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 08:15 PM
Note: I do not hate Nadal, the only thing about him I dislike is what I perceieve to be gamesmanship. Many posters will asume that because I am a Federer fan I wish him harm but that is not the case, I just want to put it out there so that responses aren't coming at me from the standpoint of people thinking I am a "hater".
Fair enough, stebs.

I've never known you as a hater. It's just that many people - and I'm one of them, I guess ;) - take a viewpoint and never move from it so debating about this sort of thing is often useless if you don't like sheer tard-wars.

tennis2tennis
07-02-2007, 08:15 PM
The show started when she was in trouble in the second set.

I've seen a lot of people with cramps. Heck, I've had my share of very painful cramps due to having a foot problem. Screaming like that with cramps is show.

c'mon that's bullshit unless you've possessed her body at one point...

Neely
07-02-2007, 08:17 PM
Who said tennis needed more characters?
here! here!

And who is telling me now at what score it happened so that I can see if I can upload a clip about this scene?

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 08:17 PM
c'mon that's bullshit unless you've possessed her body at one point...
Well, I'm not going to argue about this anymore.

To me, knowing what it feels like to have painful cramps in your legs, it was show. I don't doubt that she was having cramps but she then put on an entire show. To you, it wasn't and this was all real. Fair enough.

mallorn
07-02-2007, 08:19 PM
Note: I do not hate Nadal, the only thing about him I dislike is what I perceieve to be gamesmanship. Many posters will asume that because I am a Federer fan I wish him harm but that is not the case, I just want to put it out there so that responses aren't coming at me from the standpoint of people thinking I am a "hater".
Recently you've been more critical of Rafa than before, but I know you're not a hater. ;)

mashamaniac
07-02-2007, 08:19 PM
Söderling certanly is an intensive character on the pitch, he showed no respect for Nadal at all out there. This could be a great future rivalry.

rivalry? what?? is soderling as good as being able to make a rivalry with a top tener?

madmanfool
07-02-2007, 08:19 PM
Have you really never had a cramp that makes you wince loudly? I have. They can be very painful and nothing you do can un-tense your calf muscle (and I have a large ugly one so I know) except time.

Do you honestly believe, that at one set a piece and 5-all in the 2nd, there was a reason for Serena to pretend to cramp?! I mean, she was not down. She was LEADING.

Who said she was pretending anything? I'm talking about the whole show she put on. And yes i know all to well what cramp and spasm is. I suffer from it a lot, especially in my calf muscles. As painful as they are and as loud as they make you wince, there is no reason to lay the ground acting like you're about to die.

ReturnWinner
07-02-2007, 08:19 PM
i think it was in the fifht set when soderling served 01
here! here!

And who is telling me now at what score it happened so that I can see if I can upload a clip about this scene?

Ocrana
07-02-2007, 08:19 PM
here! here!

And who is telling me now at what score it happened so that I can see if I can upload a clip about this scene?

5th set. 1st game if I am correct

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:19 PM
Not just testosterone. Serena is very good at giving her opponents "oh no you didn't!" looks and then rocking out in her playing.

At the end of the day- even as a Rafa fan, I thought it was a little funny. Was it classy by Robin- heck no. And I hope he loses for sure. But as so One who still wishes that I had recorded the Hewitt/Coria Davis Cup hijinks. I am not saying that I always want to see mocking or taunting- but every once in a while, it reminds you that this can be a very competitive sport with feelings whirling around out there.

I have to disagree with the feeling that JMacs tantrums were not really gamesmanship. They likely were not sometimes- but for example, during the rather imfamous match (in its day) against one of the Gullickson brothers where it appears that he was during it just to disrupt play and therefore rattle the opponent.

I agree, CB. I laughed a little too. I enjoy seeing....drama on the court. I don't know why everyone on here is talking about Nadal fans being "mad". It made me want to grab my popcorn and watch more. Damn the rain. ;) I think tennis has gotten a little too polite. I know not everyone feels that way, but I like the fire. :shrug:

TMJordan
07-02-2007, 08:21 PM
This sport needs more Soderling's.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:21 PM
The show started when she was in trouble in the second set.

I've seen a lot of people with cramps. Heck, I've had my share of very painful cramps due to having a foot problem. Screaming like that with cramps is show.

I am really confused. You saw her play stationary, right? Does that sound like a show? She didn't even try in the tiebreak. She may have finishd the match if she tried. I just can't imagine what incentives she would have to drag it out to a third set, where she moved questionably, relied on huge serves, relied on winner off serves.

I CAN believe that she would scream louder than she might have needed to, or screamed louder COME ONNS than she would otherwise, and stuff like that. But I don't for a moment believe that she faked her injury and faked her stationary shots.

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 08:22 PM
I am really confused. You saw her play stationary, right? Does that sound like a show? She didn't even try in the tiebreak. She may have finishd the match if she tried. I just can't imagine what incentives she would have to drag it out to a third set, where she moved questionably, relied on huge serves, relied on winner off serves.

I CAN believe that she would scream louder than she might have needed to, or screamed louder COME ONNS than she would otherwise, and stuff like that. But I don't for a moment believe that she faked her injury and faked her stationary shots.
Listen, R. Federer. We clearly disagree on this. I'm not convincing you. You're far from convincing me.

Let's leave it at that.

Myrre
07-02-2007, 08:22 PM
At the very start of the fourth set there was a change of balls. Rafa got to the baseline and was about to serve but when he looked up Soderling wasn't there - he'd gone to change the racquet. When he came back, Rafa showed him a ball and said "New balls". At this point Soderling moved away from the baseline and tugged at his shorts. Then they stared each other down (not for the first time in the match).

I don't agree with the above. Here's how I saw it: Nadal was annoyed at Soderling for the delay when he changed racquet (that's quite hilarious in itself). When Nadal was about to serve he suddenly stopped in the middle of his routine, held up the balls to mock Soderling as in "are you sure you're ready now"? Soderling then lost control (understandably after 4 sets of delay tactics by the Master in such things).

Clara Bow
07-02-2007, 08:23 PM
Have you really never had a cramp that makes you wince loudly? I have. They can be very painful and nothing you do can un-tense your calf muscle (and I have a large ugly one so I know) except time.


I have a little bitty calf muscle and I once woke up with a charley horse that had me screaming like I was being knifed. Scared the wazoo out my room mates but the pain was horrible. :lol: But I can see why folks may think she may have been overdoing it- although you did definately see the cramp in her calf.

Dang- some exciting stuff going out there today. And with Keifer/Djokovic and Canas/Hewitt- maybe some stuff going went on there there too that we didn't see. :)

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:23 PM
I am really confused. You saw her play stationary, right? Does that sound like a show? She didn't even try in the tiebreak. She may have finishd the match if she tried. I just can't imagine what incentives she would have to drag it out to a third set, where she moved questionably, relied on huge serves, relied on winner off serves.

I CAN believe that she would scream louder than she might have needed to, or screamed louder COME ONNS than she would otherwise, and stuff like that. But I don't for a moment believe that she faked her injury and faked her stationary shots.

Me either. She would have closed that match out in straights if she could have. The only bit of gamesmanship I saw was the feigned potty break. She had to go so badly and then..what? Changed her mind? BTW, I was pulling for Serena and was VERY pleased that the rain helped her out.

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:24 PM
Castafiore, he is making a good point though. There is no real reason for Serena Williams to randomly decide playing "Let's fake a cramp" would be useful in any possible way.

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:24 PM
I don't agree with the above. Here's how I saw it: Nadal was annoyed at Soderling for the delay when he changed racquet (that's quite hilarious in itself). When Nadal was about to serve he suddenly stopped in the middle of his routine, held up the balls to mock Soderling as in "are you sure you're ready now"? Soderling then lost control (understandably after 4 sets of delay tactics by the Master in such things).

That's the way I saw it too :)

sawan66278
07-02-2007, 08:25 PM
Let me give this a shot. I'm a huge Rafa fan, but try to be objective as well. What Rafa tries to do is SLOW the match down to the pace he prefers. Steffi Graf was known as a player (much like Agassi for a time) who was known to try to play the points as fast as possible. I know the rule is that one plays "at the pace of the server". However, players who attempt to control not only what goes on between the lines, but the pace of the match outside the lines, will play at THEIR pace.

Lendl was famous for this. Picking at his eyelashes, the sawdust routine, etc. Brad Gilbert, in his suprisingly entertaining book Winning Ugly, called the tactic "turtle tennis". Rafa, from the time he enters the court and places the bottles in EXACTLY THE POSITION he wants, is utilizing this method/tactic. Whatever you want to call it.

What I find is that players with weak minds (and weaker resumes) try to find reasons for their losses (outside their talent deficiency and inability to win). They focus on these methods, and harp on them. Look at Roger, Roddick, Hewitt...former slam champions. They NEVER complain about these things. Why? Because they focus on their games, and are able to adjust.

Can it be annoying? Yes. But I would love to see how Soderling would have dealt with Lendl or Johnny Mac (complaing about a fan not sitting down in the nosebleed seats). Do I have a problem with Rafa doing this? I do get annoyed when he holds his hand up from time to time, but being an "old school" fan, I've seen MUCH worse before...and no one cried about it. As a matter of fact, Brad Gilbert says players SHOULD do what Rafa is doing.

Soderling's reaction and mocking was childish...and pathetic. Fight fire with fire, focus on your game...don't act like a child...

One final point. In defense of both players, whose nerves wouldn't be frayed from the huge number of rain delays and insane Wimbledon scheduling?

stebs
07-02-2007, 08:25 PM
Recently you've been more critical of Rafa than before, but I know you're not a hater. ;)

As I stated in that post the one thing that I do dislike about Nadal are his on court antics and when they are in the spotlight you will surely see me criticising Nadal and I don't deny it.

As for being more critical lately it is unsurprising. When Nadal is in winning mode his less knowledgable fans come out to play and it is a tougher time which causes me to become a tard myself. It is just the same as when Federer is dominating and there are more Fed-tards around spouting shit about how soon he will win hs millionth slam.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 08:25 PM
Not just testosterone. Serena is very good at giving her opponents "oh no you didn't!" looks and then rocking out in her playing.

At the end of the day- even as a Rafa fan, I thought it was a little funny. Was it classy by Robin- heck no. And I hope he loses for sure. But as so One who still wishes that I had recorded the Hewitt/Coria Davis Cup hijinks. I am not saying that I always want to see mocking or taunting- but every once in a while, it reminds you that this can be a very competitive sport with feelings whirling around out there.

I have to disagree with the feeling that JMacs tantrums were not really gamesmanship. They likely were not sometimes- but for example, during the rather imfamous match (in its day) against one of the Gullickson brothers where it appears that he was during it just to disrupt play and therefore rattle the opponent.

I do have to say- that even after all of the emotion and frustration of today's amtch- it was nice to see Nadal sign autos for these kids as the rain was falling. I can see why Rafa rubs folks the wrong way when he is on the court, but I do feel off the court- he is a pretty nice guy.

Don't know much about women's tennis...haven't really watched one in a long time. :)

McEnroe did to things to get inside people's heads, but it was mostly the spur of the moment things because he was, plainly spoken, a jerk. He didn't do the exact same things to rattle his opponents. In his heyday, he didn't think anyone could/should beat him, so he would basically get involved in childish little mindgames. Sometimes he was trying to get in their heads to rattle them, but other times he was just involved in some psychotic need to antagonize. Sounds weird, but it's true. Like when he played Becker for the first time in Milan and would berate Becker during the changeovers. So it was gamesmanship in a way, but mostly just childish behavior from someone who couldn't control his emotions. Of course it all boils down to maybe the same thing from the opponent's perspective. :)

mashamaniac
07-02-2007, 08:26 PM
This sport needs more Soderling's.

why do you think so?:confused:

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 08:26 PM
Just a quick suggestion:

Instead of Rafa being an angel or Nadal being some gamesmanship demon, why not a middle ground?

I hardly think Rafa's time usage has any nefarious basis behind it - it's simply a bad habit he should address. But at the same time, I don't think he is so naive or so innocent as to not realize that his stalling does earn him a mental edge against certain players. So sure, it's not demonic behavior, but it's one of those things where he'd probably be more motivated to change his behavior if there wasn't such a benefit to remaining as he was.

Agree.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:28 PM
Listen, R. Federer. We clearly disagree on this. I'm not convincing you. You're far from convincing me.

Let's leave it at that.

Listen Castla, this is a discussion board. Which is why we ask questions of each other. It's not that I was particularly looking for a chat with you.

And, you meant to write "I'm far from convincing you".

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:28 PM
Just a quick suggestion:

Instead of Rafa being an angel or Nadal being some gamesmanship demon, why not a middle ground?

I hardly think Rafa's time usage has any nefarious basis behind it - it's simply a bad habit he should address. But at the same time, I don't think he is so naive or so innocent as to not realize that his stalling does earn him a mental edge against certain players. So sure, it's not demonic behavior, but it's one of those things where he'd probably be more motivated to change his behavior if there wasn't such a benefit to remaining as he was.

J, making sense is prohibited in threads about Nadal. Didn't you know? :hug: Ever the voice of reason.

ca1houn
07-02-2007, 08:28 PM
LMAO I saw the clip....that was greatness. Soderling just went up a notch in my book.

:worship: mind too

TMJordan
07-02-2007, 08:28 PM
why do you think so?:confused:

Becauase sometimes the game can be very boring and dull, with a hand full of Toad's on the tour you can't go wrong!

RonE
07-02-2007, 08:29 PM
Hey where is Glennmirnyi? It is not like him to miss out on so much fun :D

Rogiman
07-02-2007, 08:29 PM
:yeah:

scarecrows
07-02-2007, 08:30 PM
Hey where is Glennmirnyi? It is not like him to miss out on so much fun :D

he's playing tennis himself at the moment, surely not moonballing

gusman890
07-02-2007, 08:30 PM
video? please and thanks

Svetlana.
07-02-2007, 08:30 PM
I like Nadal a lot! But like many, I'm tired of watching him fixing his underwear practically in the beginning of every game. Someone should have told him about how fanny it looks a long time ago. He should learn a lesson from this accident and never touch his behind during the match again.

*Ljubica*
07-02-2007, 08:30 PM
LMAO I saw the clip....that was greatness. Soderling just went up a notch in my book.

Mine too :) I'm not a fan of Soderling, but he got pissed off at the amount of time Nadal was taking between points, (as nearly all the other players do), and did something that I'm sure many of them have wanted to do before now, but never had the guts to! It probably wasn't the wisest move, especially as it seemed to fire up Nadal, whilst causing Soderlimg to lose focus and concentrati0n and lose his next service game, - and I'm sure he'll lose the match in the end, - but I can sort of understand his motives.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 08:31 PM
he's playing tennis himself at the moment, surely not moonballing

:lol:

Neely
07-02-2007, 08:31 PM
i think it was in the fifht set when soderling served 01
5th set. 1st game if I am correct
Thanks for answering! Unfortunately, exactly after the fourth set they went over for the end of Serena vs Hantuchova. I hope somebody else can give a clip of this comedy, though :)

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:31 PM
Soderling's reaction and mocking was childish...and pathetic. Fight fire with fire, focus on your game...don't act like a child...

He did try (and failed, LOL). His way of fighting back was to annoy nadal, by picking his arse and imitating other things about him.
Both parties have responsiblities here, if I got the picture correct. One is unsportmsanlike/gamesmanship (allowed) and the other is childish/annoying (allowed).

Andre'sNo1Fan
07-02-2007, 08:32 PM
I was wondering if you were too pissed at Soderling to even dare venture on here... :wavey:
LOL. I only come on here for a laugh, to see how people like you react when their favourite losses :o We all need entertainment, right.

I couldn't care less about Soderling, what he's supposed to have done or anything. I didn't watch the match, and have little interest in watching it. I certainly don't take things done against tennis players I like personally, after all since when would they give a damn about me (and they don't care about you, either ;) ).

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:32 PM
he's playing tennis himself at the moment, surely not moonballing

:rocker2: he sure knows how tennis must be played :rocker2:

RonE
07-02-2007, 08:32 PM
he's playing tennis himself at the moment, surely not moonballing

Well he is in for a treat and so are we :lol: :devil:

Castafiore
07-02-2007, 08:32 PM
Listen Castla, this is a discussion board. yup, but I don't have to argue with you until armageddon, do I? You asked me another question. I feel that it's pointless to continue because we're never going to agree.

And, you meant to write "I'm far from convincing you".
Ha, going down the condescending road, are we?

Fine. I'm tired. I've had a long day. If you want to nitpick about this sort of thing, be my guest.

Corswandt
07-02-2007, 08:32 PM
I've always thought of the extra time Nadal takes on big points as a way to collect himself. He often wins matches relying on his mental toughness - I just don't see him thinking "I'm gonna take some extra time and hope he chokes", I think its more like "OK Rafa. You can do this. Just one more point..." :shrug:

It doesn't necessarily mean that its right, of course. I wish he wouldn't do it - I simply don't think its as nefarious as his haters make it out to be.

Nadal takes ages between points to hammer into his opponents the feeling that beating him will take patience, steadiness under pressure and a very, very, very long time. Making points and matches drag on and on and on and on is what his playing style still boils down to in the end; when he's in trouble, he reverts to being a high % grinder who relies on outlasting his opponents.

dejosav
07-02-2007, 08:33 PM
I've read only 3 pages so i'm sry if someone already posted this, but it all started back in 3rd set. Söderling, already very nervous made some big mistake, not sure but i think it was DF, and Rafa yelled c'mon like he made winner. Söderling was about to explode and at first chance, meaning UE from Rafa, he showed fist to Rafa to get even. Very intense tb too in that set, both acting like crazy

pagalpagli5
07-02-2007, 08:33 PM
Does ANYONE have a clip of Nadal/Soderling?! I'm really eager to see what all the excitement is about, and I can't find it anywhere on YouTube.

Pretty please, if anyone has some time to put the clip up, I'd greatly appreciate it! I think a lot of people haven't even seen it yet.

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:33 PM
LOL. I only come on here for a laugh, to see how people like you react when their favourite losses :o We all need entertainment, right.

I couldn't care less about Soderling, what he's supposed to have done or anything. I didn't watch the match, and have little interest in watching it. I certainly don't take things against tennis players I like personal, after all since when would they give a damn about me (and they don't care about you, either ;) ).

Gasp! That's blasphemy! JMPower means the WORLD to Roger.

mashamaniac
07-02-2007, 08:34 PM
Becauase sometimes the game can be very boring and dull, with a hand full of Toad's on the tour you can't go wrong!

got it! and agreed!:devil: :worship:

scarecrows
07-02-2007, 08:34 PM
Does ANYONE have a clip of Nadal/Soderling?! I'm really eager to see what all the excitement is about, and I can't find it anywhere on YouTube.

Pretty please, if anyone has some time to put the clip up, I'd greatly appreciate it! I think a lot of people haven't even seen it yet.

too early for utube mate, they need like 2-3 hours just for validation of the file :o

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:34 PM
(and they don't care about you, either ;) ).

Really :confused: :awww: that tears me apart :bigcry: :bigcry:

mallorn
07-02-2007, 08:34 PM
I don't agree with the above. Here's how I saw it: Nadal was annoyed at Soderling for the delay when he changed racquet (that's quite hilarious in itself). When Nadal was about to serve he suddenly stopped in the middle of his routine, held up the balls to mock Soderling as in "are you sure you're ready now"? Soderling then lost control (understandably after 4 sets of delay tactics by the Master in such things).
I'll need to see it again then - I admit I wasn't looking at the livestream without blinking and may have missed something.

Clara Bow
07-02-2007, 08:35 PM
Let me give this a shot. I'm a huge Rafa fan, but try to be objective as well. What Rafa tries to do is SLOW the match down to the pace he prefers. Steffi Graf was known as a player (much like Agassi for a time) who was known to try to play the points as fast as possible. I know the rule is that one plays "at the pace of the server". However, players who attempt to control not only what goes on between the lines, but the pace of the match outside the lines, will play at THEIR pace.

Lendl was famous for this. Picking at his eyelashes, the sawdust routine, etc. Brad Gilbert, in his suprisingly entertaining book Winning Ugly, called the tactic "turtle tennis". Rafa, from the time he enters the court and places the bottles in EXACTLY THE POSITION he wants, is utilizing this method/tactic. Whatever you want to call it.

What I find is that players with weak minds (and weaker resumes) try to find reasons for their losses (outside their talent deficiency and inability to win). They focus on these methods, and harp on them. Look at Roger, Roddick, Hewitt...former slam champions. They NEVER complain about these things. Why? Because they focus on their games, and are able to adjust.

Can it be annoying? Yes. But I would love to see how Soderling would have dealt with Lendl or Johnny Mac (complaing about a fan not sitting down in the nosebleed seats). Do I have a problem with Rafa doing this? I do get annoyed when he holds his hand up from time to time, but being an "old school" fan, I've seen MUCH worse before...and no one cried about it. As a matter of fact, Brad Gilbert says players SHOULD do what Rafa is doing.

Soderling's reaction and mocking was childish...and pathetic. Fight fire with fire, focus on your game...don't act like a child...

One final point. In defense of both players, whose nerves wouldn't be frayed from the huge number of rain delays and insane Wimbledon scheduling?

Fantastic post. :) Ivan and that famous sawdust. :lol:

ycpg
07-02-2007, 08:35 PM
He tried to make fun of someone who has been far more successful and is physically stronger. Soderling shouldn't be making fun of anyone, he is a nobody compared to someone like Nadal. I did find it kind of funny though.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 08:35 PM
Agassi did kind of the same thing last year at Wimby. NAdal was ready to serve and agassi was sitting in a linesman's chair. This happened after a while of slow play.

stebs
07-02-2007, 08:35 PM
;) It won't happen again! :sobbing:

You better make damn sure it doesn't. :p

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:35 PM
Nadal takes ages between points to hammer into his opponents the feeling that beating him will take patience, steadiness under pressure and a very, very, very long time. Making points and matches drag on and on and on and on is what his playing style still boils down to in the end.
:worship:

He's probably not as terribly defensive when he's down as you imply, but it's definitely the case that his game depends a lot on the thought that "If I want to beat Rafael Nadal, I'm going to have to pack a lunch."

Sunset of Age
07-02-2007, 08:36 PM
Both parties have responsiblities here, if I got the picture correct. One is unsportmsanlike/gamesmanship (allowed) and the other is childish/annoying (allowed).

that was my point, about eleven pages ago... :rolleyes:

stebs
07-02-2007, 08:37 PM
He tried to make fun of someone who has been far more successful and is physically stronger. Soderling shouldn't be making fun of anyone, he is a nobody compared to someone like Nadal. I did find it kind of funny though.

Who has acheived more or is physically stronger is absolutely insignificant.

Ales_Alessandra
07-02-2007, 08:37 PM
Wow, I completely missed that! :eek: I was watching the match and haven't noticed it! :shrug:

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 08:37 PM
I've read only 3 pages so i'm sry if someone already posted this, but it all started back in 3rd set. Söderling, already very nervous made some big mistake, not sure but i think it was DF, and Rafa yelled c'mon like he made winner. Söderling was about to explode and at first chance, meaning UE from Rafa, he showed fist to Rafa to get even. Very intense tb too in that set, both acting like crazy

Same thing happened at RG in their other meeting. Nadal yelled, "Vamos!" after a DF or an UE from the Toad which royally pissed the Swede off. Difference was that at RG, he wasn't going to win a set even if they played a million of them.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:37 PM
Only because alleged gamesmanship of various forms are being discussed here, posting this.

But honestly, it takes might lots of effort and talent to lose a match against a player on one leg. And hantuchova is not a rookie.


Q. Were you irritated when she hit the dropshot in the fourth game?

SERENA WILLIAMS: That pretty much set it off for me. After that, I was so motivated to win. I was like, you know what, I'm going to do this. You know, I'm going to die trying.
You know, I just ‑‑ I don't know why that particularly made me so upset, but it was just like, you know what, this is it. I'm not going down today. I mean, no. There's no way.


Q. Daniela is obviously hurting for different reasons at the moment. How would you feel if you would have gone out and lost to a woman who was playing on one leg?
SERENA WILLIAMS: If she was Serena Williams, I wouldn't feel that bad (smiling).

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:38 PM
I'll need to see it again then - I admit I wasn't looking at the livestream without blinking and may have missed something.

I can't BELIEVE you missed FOUR WHOLE SETS of delaying tactics!!! You must be slipping. Or maybe you were watching the wrong match.... ;)

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:40 PM
Q. Daniela is obviously hurting for different reasons at the moment. How would you feel if you would have gone out and lost to a woman who was playing on one leg?
SERENA WILLIAMS: If she was Serena Williams, I wouldn't feel that bad (smiling).
:lol:

And people call Federer arrogant.

:worship: Serena. God I hope she keeps Justine from winning this tournament.

mashamaniac
07-02-2007, 08:40 PM
i believe in toad as the nastiest guy on tour!(of course alongside nalby!:p )

Pfloyd
07-02-2007, 08:40 PM
Hahahaha, I don't know what you people are celebrating, he got broken!

What would have been better for you? That Soderling wins the match, or that he taunts Nadal only to lose later on?

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:41 PM
;) It won't happen again! :sobbing:

See that it doesn't, young man. The penalty for any further infraction will be swift and severe. :mad:

marcelwks
07-02-2007, 08:41 PM
I remember when Soderling immitated Stepanek's face in Milan's final 2005 :lol:

stebs
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
Only because alleged gamesmanship of various forms are being discussed here, posting this.

But honestly, it takes might lots of effort and talent to lose a match against a player on one leg. And hantuchova is not a rookie.

Q. Were you irritated when she hit the dropshot in the fourth game?

SERENA WILLIAMS: That pretty much set it off for me. After that, I was so motivated to win. I was like, you know what, I'm going to do this. You know, I'm going to die trying.
You know, I just ‑‑ I don't know why that particularly made me so upset, but it was just like, you know what, this is it. I'm not going down today. I mean, no. There's no way.


Q. Daniela is obviously hurting for different reasons at the moment. How would you feel if you would have gone out and lost to a woman who was playing on one leg?
SERENA WILLIAMS: If she was Serena Williams, I wouldn't feel that bad (smiling).

I didn't see the S.Williams match so I may be missing something but if the issue is simply that Hantuchova hit a drop shot against an injured Serena then there isn't an issue. If Williams can't play then she should get off the court, if she can play then she can't be upset about a drop shot.

Andre'sNo1Fan
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
Gasp! That's blasphemy! JMPower means the WORLD to Roger.
Federer should do well to avoid fans like JMPower, giving him a bad name.

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
Hahahaha, I don't know what you people are celebrating, he got broken!

What would have been better for you? That Soderling wins the match, or that he taunts Nadal only to lose later on?
Well...nobody's really...celebrating. :dunno:

rofe
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
Hahahaha, I don't know what you people are celebrating, he got broken!

What would have been better for you? That Soderling wins the match, or that he taunts Nadal only to lose later on?

Nobody thinks Robin can pull this one out. Everyone seems to simply like the taunt. :shrug:

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
I didn't see the S.Williams match so I may be missing something but if the issue is simply that Hantuchova hit a drop shot against an injured Serena then there isn't an issue. If Williams can't play then she should get off the court, if she can play then she can't be upset about a drop shot.
Well, I think it's just what lit her fire. There was no real controversy over it. She just went into "Oh, hell no you didn't!" mode.

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
What would have been better for you? That Soderling wins the match, or that he taunts Nadal only to lose later on?

No worries, Youzhny and/or birdman are awaiting to finish the job off :cool:

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:43 PM
:shrug: was totally ":dunno:" at some forum.

NYCtennisfan
07-02-2007, 08:43 PM
Hahahaha, I don't know what you people are celebrating, he got broken!

What would have been better for you? That Soderling wins the match, or that he taunts Nadal only to lose later on?

Nobody thought Soderling was going to win the 5th anyway. The whole incident is just a little bit funny/amusing. It gives people something to talk about with all the rain.

TNX1.0E6TOPCA
07-02-2007, 08:44 PM
The incident between Nadal and 'very bad person' Soderling, plus this thread have been like a breath of fresh air :D

stebs
07-02-2007, 08:44 PM
Nobody thinks Robin can pull this one out. Everyone seems to simply like the taunt. :shrug:

:lol: At everyone counting Robin out. If Nadal comes out and plays two loose points then we are back on serve and Sode the Toad is every bit as good as Nadal on the grass other than the mental side of things. If Toad gets on a roll and plays well tomorrow then he is going to take some beating.

bokehlicious
07-02-2007, 08:44 PM
Federer should do well to avoid fans like JMPower, giving him a bad name.

Andre or Piggy are proud of tennis expert fans like you :worship:

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:45 PM
I didn't see the S.Williams match so I may be missing something but if the issue is simply that Hantuchova hit a drop shot against an injured Serena then there isn't an issue. If Williams can't play then she should get off the court, if she can play then she can't be upset about a drop shot.

No not really, the "issue" is that Serena is accused of gamesmanship because she allegedly faked a cramp (visible to everyone) when she was *leading* :shrug: and then stood stationary through the whole 2nd set tiebreak, which she promptly lost. She is also honoured with being a fine actress because she screamed when she fell down with her cramp.

She is accused further of putting on a show, because she screamed loud come ons in the third set. She served HUGE, tried return winners off serves and played as near immobile as you can and hantuchova mustered all her talent to lose that. Against a one leggy player!!!! This is pissing off a lot of people :).

The interview quote is that Serena got pissed that hantuchova was trying to take advantage of her bad state to make her run for droppers.... and let her opponent know about how mad she was.

Andre'sNo1Fan
07-02-2007, 08:46 PM
Andre or Piggy are proud of tennis expert fans like you :worship:
I don't claim to be an expert, but the sad thing is, you do!

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:47 PM
Well, I think it's just what lit her fire. There was no real controversy over it. She just went into "Oh, hell no you didn't!" mode.

:lol: I would have been fired up too. :yeah:

You know what I love about Serena? She doesn't even pretend to not be arrogant. Sometimes Roger and Rafa blowing smoke up our collective asses gets old. Come ON Rafa. Just say "I'm the fucking BEST at clay!" Roger! say "Pfft. Nobody's beating me at wimby until I don't feel like playing it anymore." Sigh. I miss the good old days. :lol:

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:47 PM
The biggest thing with Serena wasn't even the cramp, it was that, during every single changeover, she asked for a bathroom break, and then when the chair umpire was like "Fine. Go.", she said she didn't have to anymore.

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:48 PM
:lol: I would have been fired up too. :yeah:

You know what I love about Serena? She doesn't even pretend to not be arrogant. Sometimes Roger and Rafa blowing smoke up our collective asses gets old. Come ON Rafa. Just say "I'm the fucking BEST at clay!" Roger! say "Pfft. Nobody's beating me at wimby until I don't feel like playing it anymore." Sigh. I miss the good old days. :lol:
I do have to admit, that would make their interviews a lot better.

Q: Who's your toughest opponent here at Wimbledon?

ROGER FEDERER: Um...I don't know, really. The thoughts I"m having about how in the hell to win in Paris next year might be distracting, I guess.

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:50 PM
Hahahaha, I don't know what you people are celebrating, he got broken!

What would have been better for you? That Soderling wins the match, or that he taunts Nadal only to lose later on?

No, not really, people are discussing the taunting/gamesmanship etc.

Btw, nadal is likely to win this, but he had a chance to finish it in straights and with the weather delays, not doing so only compounds his chances of playing more than one match in a day. So, while a win is a win, all wins are not alike. He surely cannot be celebrating that he did not close it out at his first chance, way back in the third set.

nhissan
07-02-2007, 08:50 PM
16 pages and no video?
MTF you're failing

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:51 PM
:lol: I would have been fired up too. :yeah:

You know what I love about Serena? She doesn't even pretend to not be arrogant. Sometimes Roger and Rafa blowing smoke up our collective asses gets old. Come ON Rafa. Just say "I'm the fucking BEST at clay!" Roger! say "Pfft. Nobody's beating me at wimby until I don't feel like playing it anymore." Sigh. I miss the good old days. :lol:
This is what I like most about her. Her utter crazy level of confidence. She is NEVER beaten by anyone, she beats herself. She cannot be beaten if she is playing anywhere near or above 58% of her true ability. :lol:
I love it!

Mechlan
07-02-2007, 08:52 PM
Tennis needs more incidents like this. Fun stuff. :lol:

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:52 PM
The biggest thing with Serena wasn't even the cramp, it was that, during every single changeover, she asked for a bathroom break, and then when the chair umpire was like "Fine. Go.", she said she didn't have to anymore.

Yep. That surely was part of her gamesmanship plans. Like with hand raising, stalling serves however, it is legal to ask (she was denied 3 or 4 times so it wasn't effective anyway).

And, I don't think she asked at each changeover -- she asked when hantuchova was about to serve, and/or she was not ahead. :devil:

Beforehand
07-02-2007, 08:53 PM
This is what I like most about her. Her utter crazy level of confidence. She is NEVER beaten by anyone, she beats herself. She cannot be beaten if she is playing anywhere near or above 58% of her true ability. :lol:
I love it!
ROFL.

Q: Justine beat you 8-6 in the third? Maybe you could have played a little better.

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, considering I played at about 15% today, I think it's OK. I think if I could have gotten somewhere near 18%, it would have been OK. I mean, I tried to concentrate, but with that UFO I saw, and that dog barking a couple miles away, what could I do, you know?

Ales_Alessandra
07-02-2007, 08:53 PM
I can't wait to read Nadal's blog today, if he writes one!! I haven't seen the rest of the match, coverage stoped at the 3rd set TB rain break, so it is already on 5th set! Wow, I wander if both players will be able to sleep tonigh!! :eek:

mangoes
07-02-2007, 08:54 PM
:lol: I would have been fired up too. :yeah:

You know what I love about Serena? She doesn't even pretend to not be arrogant. Sometimes Roger and Rafa blowing smoke up our collective asses gets old. Come ON Rafa. Just say "I'm the fucking BEST at clay!" Roger! say "Pfft. Nobody's beating me at wimby until I don't feel like playing it anymore." Sigh. I miss the good old days. :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: So true. At least she's honest:lol:

A couple of players could take a lesson from Serena. She didn't just run off, make faces and look to her box with a shrug. She did something about it.....won the match.

marcelwks
07-02-2007, 08:54 PM
I remember when Soderling immitated Stepanek's face in Milan's final 2005 :lol:

no one saw this ? :p

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:56 PM
I remember when Soderling immitated Stepanek's face in Milan's final 2005 :lol:

How can anyone pull that off? You need talent to look like Stepanek :scared:

cmurray
07-02-2007, 08:56 PM
This is what I like most about her. Her utter crazy level of confidence. She is NEVER beaten by anyone, she beats herself. She cannot be beaten if she is playing anywhere near or above 58% of her true ability. :lol:
I love it!

Me too. :yeah: There's something refreshingly honest about it and her. I know it is offensive to some people, but not me. :lol:

R.Federer
07-02-2007, 08:57 PM
Me too. :yeah: There's something refreshingly honest about it and her. I know it is offensive to some people, but not me. :lol:

Yes, and I really don't believe it is an act. I think she believes that she need only play with one leg and blindfolded to beat most people just by gnashing her teeth and grunting.