The new record of Andy Roddick [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The new record of Andy Roddick

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 08:26 PM
Here are the best series of winning tie-breaks in a row:

18 - Andy Roddick (2007)


A.Murray 6-3 7-6(4)
YH.Lu 6-4 7-6(7)
Be.Becker 7-6(4) 6-4
F.Lopez 7-6(5) 6-4
O.Rochus 6-3 7-6(5)
R.Gasquet 7-6(3) 6-3
I.Ljubicic 7-6(7) 7-6(8)
F.Verdasco 7-6(5) 6-1 6-4
G.Gaudio 6-1 7-6(8)
A.Bogdanovic 4-6 7-6(5) 6-4
M.Cilic 6-4 7-6(5)
N.Mahut 4-6 7-6(7) 7-6(2)
J.Gimelstob 6-1 7-5 7-6(3)
D.Udomchoke 6-3 6-4 7-6(3)
F.Verdasco 6-3 6-4 7-6(2)
Mathieu 6-2 7-5 7-6(6)

end of streak:
R.Gasquet 6-4 6-4 6-7(2) 6-7(3) 6-8

17 - Tommy Robredo (2008-2009)

A.Seppi 7-6(5) 3-6 6-3
J.Chardy 7-6(4) 7-6(5)
F.Verdasco 2-6 7-6(6) 2-6
B.Dabul 6-3 7-6(5)
Ferreiro 6-4 7-6(4)
J.Acasuso 6-4 7-6(3)
J.Monaco 7-5 2-6 7-6(5)
M.Cilic 7-5 7-6(2)
G.Gaudio 7-6(6) 6-1
M.Safin 2-6 7-6(5) 6-2
P.Kohlschreiber 6-2 7-6(5)
M.Fish 3-6 7-6(5) 6-2
P.Kohlschreiber 6-4 5-7 7-6(4) 6-2
L.Gregorc 7-6(4) 6-4 5-7 7-6(3)
S.Koubek 4-6 3-6 6-4 7-6(5) 6-1

end of streak:
D.Sela 6-7(8) 5-7 6-2 5-7

16 - Pete Sampras (2000-2001)

T.Dent 7-6(3) 7-6(3)
M.Damm 7-6(3) 7-5 6-4
A.Calleri 7-6(5) 7-6(3) 6-3
H.T.Lee 7-6(4) 6-2 6-4
R.Krajicek 4-6 7-6(6) 6-4 6-2
L.Hewitt 7-6(7) 6-4 7-6(5)
A.Corretja 7-6(2) 7-5
G.Kuerten 7-6(5) 3-6 4-6
K.Kucera 7-6(5) 3-6 6-4 7-6(3)
B.Ulihrach 7-6(5) 7-6(5) 4-6 7-5
T.Martin 7-6(2) 3-6 4-6 4-6


end of the streak:
C.Woodruff 6-7(4) 2-6

Andy Andy
06-29-2007, 08:29 PM
Impressive. That's a sign of mental toughness especially in matches vs guys like Ljubo or Murray who return well.

RagingLamb
06-29-2007, 08:30 PM
sampras still holds the record for most ever won though, right?

It's interesting to note that Sampras had that streak in his worst year (2000 - 2001), if he had played better he wouldn't have had to play so many tie breaks.

Sjengster
06-29-2007, 08:32 PM
It's almost as if Verdasco knew the record was on the line and was kind enough to help Roddick towards it - that's a more plausible explanation than anything else for the game he played at 5-3 in the third.

It is a tremendous record though, with five large tiebreak scores in the course of this streak which makes the feat that much more impressive. And notably Vincenzo is the only player to win a tiebreak convincingly against Roddick this year, both Tsonga (especially) and Murray had to work incredibly hard for their wins.

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 08:32 PM
sampras still holds the record for most ever won though, right?


Of course, that record is very safe.

tangerine_dream
06-29-2007, 08:33 PM
Thanks for the stats, Voo :hatoff: This is an impressive turnaround from last year when Andy's TB record was atrocious.

rofe
06-29-2007, 08:34 PM
That is a great record. Kudos to Roddick. :yeah:

And to think that only last year it was almost a certainty that he would lose every tie-break he played.

Sjengster
06-29-2007, 08:34 PM
What was Roddick's previous best TB winning streak out of interest, Voo? And did he ever go on a particularly bad run, e.g. last year as tangy suggests?

Andy Andy
06-29-2007, 08:35 PM
Of course, that record is very safe.
Could you give me the top 5 of the most wins in Tie Breaks?

R.Federer
06-29-2007, 08:35 PM
sampras still holds the record for most ever won though, right?

It's interesting to note that Sampras had that streak in his worst year (2000 - 2001), if he had played better he wouldn't have had to play so many tie breaks.

Yeah, but sampras also had a longer career/more years compared to andy at this point, and may have played more games overall as well. I guess if someone knows the ratios those would be nice to see.

I wrote in the previous thread about this, that the tb is a great sign of mental fortitude. But its interpretation can also depend a little bit on who you are playing. If you are a Top 5 and running into tiebreaks with #50 and below, that is one thing (even if you win them) and if you are playing tbs against your rank-peers and winning them, that's a different thing.

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 08:35 PM
It is a tremendous record though, with four large tiebreak scores in the course of this streak which makes the feat that much more impressive. And notably Vincenzo is the only player to win a tiebreak convincingly against Roddick this year, both Tsonga (especially) and Murray had to work incredibly hard for their wins.

Tsonga has won 13 tie-breaks in a row so far (including Challengers). I suppose their tie-break (20-18 to Tsonga) at Australian Open was a great experience for both players. I'd like to remind that Roddick lost also 16-18 to Karanusic (as a junior) and 14-16 to Arthurs (Roland Garros).

Marek.
06-29-2007, 08:36 PM
Thanks for compiling those stats :yeah:

I think Roddick might have come close to breaking the record for most tiebreaks lost consecutively last year :lol:

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 08:36 PM
Could you give me the top 5 of the most wins in Tie Breaks?

1 - Sampras, Pete........... (328-194)............. 62.83
2 - Ivanisevic, Goran........ (276-207)............ 57.14
3 - Rusedski, Greg........... (256-204)............. 55.65
4 - Edberg, Stefan........... (249-166)............ 60.00
5 - Lendl, Ivan................. (241-158)............ 60.40

R.Federer
06-29-2007, 08:38 PM
His career record is 178-104, 63%, which is better right now than Pete's. :worship:

AceMaker
06-29-2007, 08:40 PM
Nice job Voo de Mar :worship:

El Legenda
06-29-2007, 08:41 PM
if Mahut didnt choke, this would have been over long time ago :lol:

Andy Andy
06-29-2007, 08:42 PM
I hear Djoker is impressie in Tie reaks. Does nyone havehis current stats.
1 - Sampras, Pete........... (328-194)............. 62.83
2 - Ivanisevic, Goran........ (276-207)............ 57.14
3 - Rusedski, Greg........... (256-204)............. 55.65
4 - Edberg, Stefan........... (249-166)............ 60.00
5 - Lendl, Ivan................. (241-158)............ 60.40
Thanks a lot mate. I am surprised Pete was in s mant Tie breaks.

marcRD
06-29-2007, 08:42 PM
His career record is 178-104, 63%, which is better right now than Pete's. :worship:

But not better than Federer.

R.Federer
06-29-2007, 08:43 PM
I hear Djoker is impressie in Tie reaks. Does nyone havehis current stats.


11-5, not that great as andy's. :shrug:

But yes it is good.

RonE
06-29-2007, 08:43 PM
A-Rod :worship:

R.Federer
06-29-2007, 08:43 PM
But not better than Federer.
Better to keep that matter out of this thread. :)

(You are correct, but we are here to congratulate the rod in this one)

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 08:44 PM
11-5, it's not that great. :shrug: But yes, it's good.

This year... But his record in 4 years career is VERY good: 38-13 (74 %).

Andy Andy
06-29-2007, 08:45 PM
if Mahut didnt choke, this would have been over long time ago :lol:
If Ljubicic was smart,he would put more effort in Slams rather than spend himself in Mickey Mouse events.

Don't waste our time with pointless what ifs. Roddick is mentally tough hence his good tiebreak results.

R.Federer
06-29-2007, 08:45 PM
What was Roddick's previous best TB winning streak out of interest, Voo? And did he ever go on a particularly bad run, e.g. last year as tangy suggests?
He was 50% last year. Won 20 lost 20 I think.

Sofyaxo
06-29-2007, 08:45 PM
Good for Andy. I didn't even know this was going to be a record.

It's a nice one to have.

Andy Andy
06-29-2007, 08:47 PM
But not better than Federer.
Wow, you are so up Fed's ass that you have to preach his greatness all over the place. :rolleyes: That kind of talk isn't welcome in this thread.

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 08:49 PM
What was Roddick's previous best TB winning streak out of interest, Voo? And did he ever go on a particularly bad run, e.g. last year as tangy suggests?

11 in 2004 (Roland Garros, Queens Club, Wimbledon).

R.Federer
06-29-2007, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by marcRD http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/mtf/images2007/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?p=5598060#post5598060)
But not better than Federer.
Wow, you are so up Fed's ass that you have to preach his greatness all over the place. :rolleyes: That kind of talk isn't welcome in this thread.
I don't think he was preaching greatness etc. I had posted that rod's was better than Pete's, so he was just adding something related to that. Nevertheless, this is GM, so that "kind of talk" is not unwelcome here. On the roddick forum, that would be deleted and it would be fine.

Greg-Pete fan
06-29-2007, 09:00 PM
Sampras lost to Woodruff 6-7(4) 2-6 in Memphis 2001... What a pity, it was great chance to win another consecutive tiebreaker.

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 09:04 PM
1 - Sampras, Pete........... (328-194)............. 62.83
2 - Ivanisevic, Goran........ (276-207)............ 57.14
3 - Rusedski, Greg........... (256-204)............. 55.65
4 - Edberg, Stefan........... (249-166)............ 60.00
5 - Lendl, Ivan................. (241-158)............ 60.40

BTW, this is Top 5 counting only main tour. Adding lower levels, for example Ivanisevic won 282 tie-breaks, Rusedski 280.
Whatever we counting Sampras is an undisputed champion in this issue ;)

Louche
06-29-2007, 09:08 PM
Amazing statistics.

Thanks.

Amazing that you know all these things.

Thanks again.

Blue Heart24
06-29-2007, 09:11 PM
Impressive. That's a sign of mental toughness especially in matches vs guys like Ljubo or Murray who return well.

:tape: :tape: :tape:

Ljubo may have many good things in his game,but his return is definitely not a good shot:help:

FedFan_2007
06-29-2007, 09:13 PM
On the other hand, TMF plays so few TB(because he's so dominant) that he's fairly rusty and loses 50% of them.

the answer
06-29-2007, 09:17 PM
Nice one from Arod.

off topic: Pleas mods, get those gay adverts off the site, it's really disturbing.

dijus
06-29-2007, 09:18 PM
You are the legend
















Voo de Mar :worship:

Stensland
06-29-2007, 09:34 PM
does anyone know the karlovic stats when it comes to tie-breaks? if he's anywhere close to that sampras/roddick mark, this doesn't show anything about mental toughness. it's more of a hammering-serve-thing.

*edit: just looked it up: he's 25-10 this year in tie-breaks. guess that's it. roddick's overall a better player than karlovic because of more consistency, but if you break the tiebreaks of these two guys down, it's more or less a serve thing, not a mental thing.

it's different when it comes to players like hewitt or nadal.

stebs
06-29-2007, 09:40 PM
does anyone know the karlovic stats when it comes to tie-breaks? if he's anywhere close to that sampras/roddick mark, this doesn't show anything about mental toughness. it's more of a hammering-serve-thing.

*edit: just looked it up: he's 25-10 this year in tie-breaks. guess that's it. roddick's overall a better player than karlovic because of more consistency, but if you break the tiebreaks of these two guys down, it's more or less a serve thing, not a mental thing.

it's different when it comes to players like hewitt or nadal.

TB's are NOT a serve thing. why do people think this? I can dig up stats I produced in an old thread if I have to. Federer has better TB stats than all these guys and yes Nadal and Hewitt are both strong as well. Karlovic learns his mental strength in TB's to a certain extent and also relies on others making big mistakes while he continues serving bombs. There is nothing in a TB that favours a big server over a good returner.

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 09:41 PM
does anyone know the karlovic stats when it comes to tie-breaks? if he's anywhere close to that sampras/roddick mark, this doesn't show anything about mental toughness. it's more of a hammering-serve-thing.

You are a little bit wrong considering Arthurs has negative TB record: 111-133. Many players said that he is the best server... Karlovic has a decent TB record: 101-90. I don't know his personal best at winning consecutive tie-breaks but for sure it's fewer than 10.

Stensland
06-29-2007, 09:46 PM
There is nothing in a TB that favours a big server over a good returner.

true, if karlovic plays a good returner. normally he doesn't, and neither does roddick, especially on grass, where even good returners get down to mediocre because of the surface.

there aren't that many guys on tour who can return roddick's or karlovic's bombs. therefore they're top notch when it comes to tiebreaks.

lleyton and nadal surely have one hell of a mental warfare going on during tiebreaks because they have to. they don't have hammering serves so they rely on things like, you know, head and stuff.

Stensland
06-29-2007, 09:48 PM
You are a little bit wrong considering Arthurs has negative TB record: 111-133. Many players said that he is the best server... Karlovic has a decent TB record: 101-90. I don't know his personal best at winning consecutive tie-breaks but for sure it's fewer than 10.

yeah, that says a lot about arthurs' and karlovic's game apart from serving... :rolleyes:

roddick is better than those guys, and that's why he's consistently winning the tie-breaks. he has the overall game (ex serve) of a top 40 player, if that. arthurs and karlovic wouldn't even crack the top 200 if it wasn't for their serve.

Sjengster
06-29-2007, 10:05 PM
It always takes mental toughness to do well in tiebreaks, that's the most important thing. Serving your way through a breaker is much less of a sure thing nowadays with slower courts/racquet technology/whatever factor you think it is. You still need to win return points to win breakers, and if you're someone like Karlovic you only have to lose one point on your serve in a tiebreak to be almost assured of defeat, so one might say his good play in them is even more impressive than those with better all-round games who have the confidence of knowing that they'll be involved in both service and return points.

If you're Karlovic and you step up to the line serving at 4-4 in a tiebreak, second serve, one slip-up and you've handed the serving initiative to your opponent who can then probably hold his two points easily for the set. If you're Federer there's still pressure, yes, but if you lose that point you know you'll most likely get a play on at least one returning point thereafter, if not both. I remember him winning a tiebreak 7-5 from 2-5 down against Soderling last year in Madrid, if it were Karlovic he would never have got back Soderling's bombs on such a quick indoor surface.

dijus
06-29-2007, 10:06 PM
A-rod is NOT a mental tough...

El Legenda
06-29-2007, 10:10 PM
. Roddick is mentally tough hence his good tiebreak results.

you're kidding right? roddick mentally tough? :haha: tell that to Roger :rolls:

Stensland
06-29-2007, 10:17 PM
It always takes mental toughness to do well in tiebreaks, that's the most important thing. Serving your way through a breaker is much less of a sure thing nowadays with slower courts/racquet technology/whatever factor you think it is.

ain't that contradicting? you mention slow courts in the same sentence with raquet technology. now, slow courts help the returner, right, but raquet technology helps the server. so we're back to square 1: serving has never been more efficient than it is these days.


You still need to win return points to win breakers, and if you're someone like Karlovic you only have to lose one point on your serve in a tiebreak to be almost assured of defeat, so one might say his good play in them is even more impressive than those with better all-round games who have the confidence of knowing that they'll be involved in both service and return points.


just take it the other way round: if you're karlovic, you just need your opponent to make one single unforced error (figuratively) and off you go, winning the set.


If you're Karlovic and you step up to the line serving at 4-4 in a tiebreak, second serve, one slip-up and you've handed the serving initiative to your opponent who can then probably hold his two points easily for the set.


yep, that's why karlovic doesn't hold the record but roddick does: he can play a little tennis actually. good for him, bad for karlovic.


If you're Federer there's still pressure, yes, but if you lose that point you know you'll most likely get a play on at least one returning point thereafter, if not both. I remember him winning a tiebreak 7-5 from 2-5 down against Soderling last year in Madrid, if it were Karlovic he would never have got back Soderling's bombs on such a quick indoor surface.

uhm...what point are you trying to make with that paragraph? fed is a better player than karlovic? i'm so with you on that, you know. :angel:

GlennMirnyi
06-29-2007, 10:19 PM
So Ljubo is a good returner? I'd be surprised if someone saying that has ever seen any tennis.

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 10:22 PM
I think mental strength is a problematical issue. It depends on many factors and everyone see different things. For me mentally tough is a player who has:

good or very good (another issue: what is good, what is very good)
- tie-break record
- 5-set record
- record in matches after saving/wasting match points
- record in deciding tie-breaks

- often wins sets after set point down, break or two breaks down
- is able to win a match after losing a set where he had match point

Sofyaxo
06-29-2007, 10:23 PM
If you went on the theory that big serves = winning TB then people with amazing/dominate return abilities should be winning them all the time as well.

If anything I'd think luck is a big part as well.

Sjengster
06-29-2007, 10:24 PM
ain't that contradicting? you mention slow courts in the same sentence with raquet technology. now, slow courts help the returner, right, but raquet technology helps the server. so we're back to square 1: serving has never been more efficient than it is these days.



just take it the other way round: if you're karlovic, you just need your opponent to make one single unforced error (figuratively) and off you go, winning the set.



yep, that's why karlovic doesn't hold the record but roddick does: he can play a little tennis actually. good for him, bad for karlovic.



uhm...what point are you trying to make with that paragraph? fed is a better player than karlovic? i'm so with you on that, you know. :angel:

Big servers aren't dominating the tour. Yes, the balance is close, but I still say the returner has been helped a little more by new technology than the server has. If you ask me, a decent returner who falls behind in a tiebreak against Karlovic has more chance of getting back into it than Karlovic does if he falls behind. Now obviously that varies according to the quality of the opponent and the surface in question, but that's my belief.

My point is that Karlovic walks a tighter rope during a tiebreak than Federer does because he doesn't have the certainty of being competitive in both serve and return points. So to win so many tiebreaks this year is an impressive indication of his mental strength (and also a sign of improvement in the rest of his game - many more return points won through good returns and forehand groundstrokes than by his opponent making a bad error just because of the pressure of facing his serve).

I guess I contradicted myself a little there, since Karlovic now does have the assurance of knowing he'll be more competitive in return points in tiebreaks. But since that's largely down to improving his game outside his serve, that's hardly a black mark against him.

GlennMirnyi
06-29-2007, 10:25 PM
Ivanisevic was a huge-time choker... mental strength is relative.

Chaos Inc.
06-29-2007, 10:29 PM
The ATP site says in the last two years he was 19-19 in '06 and

29-24 in '05. In '06 his record appears to have gotten much worse

late in the year in the breakers.







Of course, this is the ATP site and all the numbers have to be

taken with a grain of salt with their history of accuracy.....

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 10:30 PM
Ivanisevic was a huge-time choker... mental strength is relative.

I have been watching tennis for 17 years and for me Ivanisevic is/was one of the toughest mentally player ever. Of course, if we talk about his matches against Sampras, he can be a choker but not everyone is Sampras or Federer - they are on the Top high above the rest.
Roddick wins tie-breaks here and there but when he plays a tie-break against Federer is helpless like a little child ;)

Sjengster
06-29-2007, 10:31 PM
Note that several of Roddick's tiebreak wins were against similarly good/big servers, with scorelines that went past 6-6, like the two against Ljubicic in IW and obviously against Mahut in Queens. That does take mental strength as well as big serving. Heck, big serving itself in a tiebreak situation is still a sign of mental strength even when you can do it as regularly and smoothly as Karlovic does.

Roddickominator
06-29-2007, 10:56 PM
Great record for Roddick....he is, undoubtedly, one of the most mentally tough players on tour. Those who disagree seem to be the ones who claim that Roddick can only serve, and don't want to give him credit for anything else. But for those paying attention to reality....Roddick's greatest asset, other than his serve, is his mental toughness. It's a good sign for Andy. If he can keep serving well, maybe he'll even take Fed to a tiebreak or two, where his confidence in that area could give him a set.

Stensland
06-29-2007, 11:22 PM
Roddick's greatest asset, other than his serve, is his mental toughness.

pretty interesting that you think roddick's "biggest asset" is something mtf cannot even define properly, let alone measure.

Sjengster
06-29-2007, 11:25 PM
Well, maintaining discipline in your shots is one sign of mental strength - I mean the tiebreak against Udomchoke in the previous round, he was being pressed from the back of the court but used the slice well to stay in the rally and force the Thai to make some awkward shots that he hit errors on.

Roddickominator
06-29-2007, 11:33 PM
pretty interesting that you think roddick's "biggest asset" is something mtf cannot even define properly, let alone measure.

Well it's pretty impossible to define....but by any measure i'd say it's pretty obvious that Roddick has lots of it. And I really don't even see a real argument against it....those saying that "Oh yeah where's that mental toughness when he plays Federer?" is silly, as he is completely outclassed in skill by Federer....Roddick has to play out of his skull(and hope that Fed is off his game) to even challenge him, and he even does once in a while.

R.Federer
06-29-2007, 11:52 PM
Great record for Roddick....he is, undoubtedly, one of the most mentally tough players on tour. Those who disagree seem to be the ones who claim that Roddick can only serve, and don't want to give him credit for anything else. But for those paying attention to reality....Roddick's greatest asset, other than his serve, is his mental toughness.

pretty interesting that you think roddick's "biggest asset" is something mtf cannot even define properly, let alone measure.

It is tough to define. Saving break points, saving match points, by serving big on those occasions are signs of mental fortitude. Tiebreaks *could* be, but if you are playing a tiebreak against a person who is quite a bit out of your league, it is not showing mental toughness necessarily. One example of incredible mental strength is nadal at the french final, that is a sure sign of mental fortitude mixed with confidence.

R.Federer
06-29-2007, 11:56 PM
It's a good sign for Andy. If he can keep serving well, maybe he'll even take Fed to a tiebreak or two, where his confidence in that area could give him a set.
Yes, he will have a lot of confidence for sure. But Federer's tiebreak record this year is not tooooo bad, it is 10-3. Their head to head tiebreak is 8-1 and andy won the one tiebreak the same time he won the match.

Voo de Mar
06-29-2007, 11:56 PM
IMO Roddick is one of the toughest mentally players in 21st century so far. Let's compare their (Fed & A-Rod) mental strenght from my point of view:

Tie-breaks
Federer 186-101 (64 %)...... Roddick 178-104 (63 %)
5-setters
Federer 9-10 (47 %)............ Roddick 9-9 (50 %)
MP's Saving/Wasting
Federer 10-7 (58 %)......... Roddick 10-8 (55 %)
TB's in the deciding sets
Federer 20-12 (62 %)........ Roddick 19-10 (65 %)

Summary:
Federer (57.75)
Roddick (58.25)

Obviously I'll never say A-Rod is stronger than Fed-Ex or even equal although they are very similar in "mental percentages" so far. Why?
Their H2H: Federer leads 13-1:
Tie-breaks: 8-1
TB's in the deciding sets: 1-1
MP's W/S: 1-0

Marek.
06-29-2007, 11:59 PM
Federer's 9-10 in five setters.

Voo de Mar
06-30-2007, 12:02 AM
Federer's 9-10 in five setters.

I took it (5-setters & TB's records) from www.tenniscorner.net.
Unfortunately they always suck :(
Roddick isn't 8-8 but 9-9 :o

Deboogle!.
06-30-2007, 02:38 AM
Thanks Voo de Mar impressive as always :worship:

As for serve being a huge factor in TBs.... No need to compare among players. Just look at Andy himself - his serve didn't go away in 2005 and 2006. His confidence did, so he sucked in TBs. Now he plays more confidently and is winning TBs. Is serve irrelevant, no. But if you don't have the confidence to blow big serves when the time is right or take the risks when necessary, having the big serve does become pretty useless.

Forehander
06-30-2007, 04:14 AM
lol his serve is the best in tennis history, so he well deserves it. Well done Roddick :)

R.Federer
06-30-2007, 05:12 AM
Nice stats. They certainly paint a picture, but as you sort of implied, it's really hard to quantify such intangibles like mental fortitude with some numbers.

One of the problems with these types of stats is that they treat all tiebreaks (and all mps saved, and all bps saved and all 5 setters) as the same entity. But winning the tb's in a much more important setting, like in a semi or final of a slam is a whole heap different than winning a tiebreak against opponent ranked #145 in round 2 of a tier 3 tournament. It's like the number of points won in a match. All points are not treated the same. You can win more points and lose the match. It is winning the important ones that
matter.

Using such comparisons for say, Hewitt and berdych, we see that they have about equal tb stats and berdych has a vastly superior 5-set stat. I don't know mp/bp stats. But who would say that berdych is as strong mentally as hewitt?

IMO Roddick is one of the toughest mentally players in 21st century so far. Let's compare their (Fed & A-Rod) mental strenght from my point of view:

Tie-breaks
Federer 186-101 (64 %)...... Roddick 178-104 (63 %)
5-setters
Federer 9-10 (47 %)............ Roddick 9-9 (50 %)
MP's Saving/Wasting
Federer 10-7 (58 %)......... Roddick 10-8 (55 %)
TB's in the deciding sets
Federer 20-12 (62 %)........ Roddick 19-10 (65 %)

Sofyaxo
06-30-2007, 05:23 AM
Anything to discredit Andy. :rolleyes:

It's just numbers he has the highest one in that area so he gets the record. End story.

GlennMirnyi
06-30-2007, 05:29 AM
lol his serve is the best in tennis history, so he well deserves it. Well done Roddick :)

Have you ever heard of Sampras mate?

Sean.J.S.
06-30-2007, 10:03 AM
That's what happens when you have such a great serve. ;)

Forehander
06-30-2007, 10:39 AM
Have you ever heard of Sampras mate?

Roddick's ace stats way surpasses Pete Sampras in the game of tennis within a year and is constantly at an insanely high speed with extreme consistency. Sampras just have a better game in general than Roddick. Sampras second serve was for sure over-rated and is no where as good as Roddick's kick second serve that can go up to 200's. Sampras's athletism and tennis skills were somewhat blinded to people who don't know how to watch tennis and think that without his awesome serve he's nothing.

bokehlicious
06-30-2007, 11:07 AM
Better to keep that matter out of this thread. :)

(You are correct, but we are here to congratulate the rod in this one)

:o ;)

Voo de Mar
06-30-2007, 11:07 AM
Nice stats. They certainly paint a picture, but as you sort of implied, it's really hard to quantify such intangibles like mental fortitude with some numbers.

One of the problems with these types of stats is that they treat all tiebreaks (and all mps saved, and all bps saved and all 5 setters) as the same entity. But winning the tb's in a much more important setting, like in a semi or final of a slam is a whole heap different than winning a tiebreak against opponent ranked #145 in round 2 of a tier 3 tournament. It's like the number of points won in a match. All points are not treated the same. You can win more points and lose the match. It is winning the important ones that matter.

Using such comparisons for say, Hewitt and berdych, we see that they have about equal tb stats and berdych has a vastly superior 5-set stat. I don't know mp/bp stats. But who would say that berdych is as strong mentally as hewitt?

Generally I agree with your post but not always in the semi-final or final of the GS a player from the top level, plays TB against a player from "the same league" e.g. Sampras vs. Voltchkov or Kuerten vs. Dewulf...
A lot of statistical things has an influence on players' mental strenght. I think another stats we can add to measure it are "the tight matches" - scoreline for example 1-6 7-5 6-3 or 7-6 7-5. I did it for some players who already retired (Agassi 55 %, Krajicek 52 % etc.).
'Who could be compare with who' is another issue. Berdych is IMO a very strong mental player so far but he still hasn't reach QF in a Grand Slam event so it's tough to campare him with two times GS & Masters Cup champion like Hewitt.
You've mentioned about "BP's stats". I don't like this stats because it doesn't take into account the important points. As I wrote yesterday in the other thread, Federer had wasted all 19 break points (!) in one set against Blake but won that set 7-6. Wasted break points doesn't really matter when you keep your own service games to a tie-break.

bokehlicious
06-30-2007, 11:10 AM
Wow, you are so up Fed's ass that you have to preach his greatness all over the place. :rolleyes: That kind of talk isn't welcome in this thread.

Typical ducktard reaction... So predictable...

GameSetAndAndy
06-30-2007, 11:15 AM
Good work by Roddick. Shows his nerves and confidence may be improving, exactly what he needs to reach his highest potential.

Halba
06-30-2007, 11:27 AM
Good work by Roddick. Shows his nerves and confidence may be improving, exactly what he needs to reach his highest potential.

good enough to be no #3 in the world, because of his serve and big match play. Over the past yr since american hard court season, roddick has been playing top 3 or top 4 tennis, consistently. You don't need to play a clay season, in his particular case as he can play on grass and all hardcourt.

R.Federer
06-30-2007, 01:14 PM
Generally I agree with your post but not always in the semi-final or final of the GS a player from the top level, plays TB against a player from "the same league" e.g. Sampras vs. Voltchkov or Kuerten vs. Dewulf...
Yeah, I wrote "like in a semifinal or final of a slam", only as some examples of what I meant. Other important matches like in TMS or in earlier rounds of slams or whatever are there of course.

adee-gee
06-30-2007, 03:09 PM
It's amazing to think that last year, as a Roddick fan it was imperative that a set didn't go to a tie break.

Great stuff Andy :hatoff:

Jimnik
06-30-2007, 04:01 PM
This could keep going. I don't see PHM winning any TBs against Andy.

Deboogle!.
06-30-2007, 04:25 PM
It's amazing to think that last year, as a Roddick fan it was imperative that a set didn't go to a tie break.

Great stuff Andy :hatoff:Exactly.

Andy Andy
06-30-2007, 09:19 PM
Ok, I corect, I meant to say that Murray is a good returner and on a seperatenote Ljub happens to be a ver big server so winning two ti breaks in a row aganst him= mentl toughness and composure. You might hate Andy but you gotta give it to him for winning matches he should have never won.

World Beater
06-30-2007, 10:46 PM
I think mental strength is a problematical issue. It depends on many factors and everyone see different things. For me mentally tough is a player who has:

good or very good (another issue: what is good, what is very good)
- tie-break record
- 5-set record
- record in matches after saving/wasting match points
- record in deciding tie-breaks

- often wins sets after set point down, break or two breaks down
- is able to win a match after losing a set where he had match point


- is able to close matches out on serve

federer sucks in this one. :lol:

- breakpoints saved

but yes, your criteria is very good!:wavey:

World Beater
06-30-2007, 11:00 PM
I have been watching tennis for 17 years and for me Ivanisevic is/was one of the toughest mentally player ever. Of course, if we talk about his matches against Sampras, he can be a choker but not everyone is Sampras or Federer - they are on the Top high above the rest.
Roddick wins tie-breaks here and there but when he plays a tie-break against Federer is helpless like a little child ;)

exactly.

there are many players who are perceived as lacking mental toughness because they faltered against a specific player.

courier, and goran were two players who were very tough...but they didnt have the same confidence against sampras

GlennMirnyi
06-30-2007, 11:05 PM
Roddick's ace stats way surpasses Pete Sampras in the game of tennis within a year and is constantly at an insanely high speed with extreme consistency. Sampras just have a better game in general than Roddick. Sampras second serve was for sure over-rated and is no where as good as Roddick's kick second serve that can go up to 200's. Sampras's athletism and tennis skills were somewhat blinded to people who don't know how to watch tennis and think that without his awesome serve he's nothing.

:rolleyes:
A S&Ver can't play with flat serves all the time. Sampras had all effects, had the most amazing placement ever and wasn't a little wussy like Roddick is who always serves a topspin serve down the middle on second serves.

Sampras is the best server to ever have played the game. It's not subjective, it's the truth.

Andy Andy
06-30-2007, 11:27 PM
You hurt his feelings by minimizing Sampras' game. I agree with him though, Roddick ought to go for more angles in both 1st and 2nd serves instead of justa powerful unreturnable. That would bennefit him more against Federer who handles well the powerand pace. More Precision & Angles is what's lacking in his serve imo.

Byrd
06-30-2007, 11:34 PM
His tiebreak record isn't as impressive as sampras' or even Federer's 15 due to the opponents they played, and the context. I think all his tiebreak wins were expected apart from Gaudio on clay, and maybe Murray who was playing las vegas straight after his san jose win so was quite tired.

Andy Andy
06-30-2007, 11:47 PM
Sure, if it makes you guys feel better about yourselves, go ahead and squash his acheivments. Too bad you aren't doing quite as good as him in life though *shakes head*

Byrd
06-30-2007, 11:52 PM
Sure, if it makes you guys feel better about yourselves, go ahead and squash his acheivments. Too bad you aren't doing quite as good as him in life though *shakes head*

Im not taking credit away from his achievement, but look at the facts, hes playing crappy players with some exceptions and he has the best serve in the world, hes always going to have the advantage in this scenario, you have no argument.

World Beater
06-30-2007, 11:56 PM
Im not taking credit away from his achievement, but look at the facts, hes playing crappy players with some exceptions and he has the best serve in the world, hes always going to have the advantage in this scenario, you have no argument.


even sampras played tiebreaks against the hyung taik lees and volthckovs of the world

only good players can actually get to tiebreaks against federer.

Voo de Mar
07-01-2007, 12:19 AM
even sampras played tiebreaks against the hyung taik lees and volthckovs of the world

only good players can actually get to tiebreaks against federer.

Federer as a number 1 in the world played tie-breaks against a few rather unknown players like: Thomann, Minar (2), Daniel, Al Ghareeb (:retard:), Hartfield, Troicki (2), Pless.

Sjengster
07-01-2007, 12:46 AM
Most of those were in first rounds of tournaments, mind you (in fact all of them except Al Ghareeb, which was a second round match). It doesn't surprise me that you'd have to go to a tiebreak on an unfamiliar court against an unfamiliar opponent.

Voo de Mar
07-04-2007, 11:54 AM
A-Rod - Mathieu 6-2 7-5 7-6(6)
18th winning TB in a row, even from 0:5 & 3:6. Mathieu is such a choker :o

Deboogle!.
07-04-2007, 01:27 PM
Voo de Mar :yeah:

ESPN in the US keeps saying a number above what you have here (they said 18 before the TB today I think). I assume they're counting incorrectly? I trust you over them of course :lol:

Voo de Mar
07-04-2007, 01:34 PM
Voo de Mar :yeah:

ESPN in the US keeps saying a number above what you have here (they said 18 before the TB today I think). I assume they're counting incorrectly? I trust you over them of course :lol:

Thx, it's good, I'm more reliable :yeah:
It's easy to count incorrectly if you count on atptennis activity from up do down. You can count tie-break against Querrey in San Jose but of course it's incorrectly because this great record bagan since a tie-break lost to Murray in San Jose.

Deboogle!.
07-04-2007, 02:32 PM
Thx, it's good, I'm more reliable :yeah:
It's easy to count incorrectly if you count on atptennis activity from up do down. You can count tie-break against Querrey in San Jose but of course it's incorrectly because this great record bagan since a tie-break lost to Murray in San Jose.ak ok makes sense :yeah: I was too lazy to go count myself :rolls:

maconick
07-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Thx, it's good, I'm more reliable :yeah:
It's easy to count incorrectly if you count on atptennis activity from up do down. You can count tie-break against Querrey in San Jose but of course it's incorrectly because this great record bagan since a tie-break lost to Murray in San Jose.

do challengers count?
if so tsonga is on 10 in a row

Voo de Mar
07-04-2007, 02:54 PM
do challengers count?

Challengers don't count officially but I count sometimes in my stats even Satellites or Futures :lol:

Voo de Mar
07-04-2007, 02:55 PM
do challengers count?
if so tsonga is on 10 in a row

Even 13 counting Futures :)

Stensland
07-04-2007, 03:00 PM
@ maconick

the youtube-link's down already. the high and mighty all england lawn tennis club seems to be pretty fast when it comes to copyright infringements. they must've looooads of time on their hand due to rain delays.

maconick
07-04-2007, 03:26 PM
@ maconick

the youtube-link's down already. the high and mighty all england lawn tennis club seems to be pretty fast when it comes to copyright infringements. they must've looooads of time on their hand due to rain delays.

muhahahahahhahah

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aaReuH5xJJo

Voo de Mar
07-06-2007, 05:27 PM
Beautiful backhand down the line by Gasquet stoped Roddick's record at 18 in a row.

sykotique
07-06-2007, 05:33 PM
Gasquet is FINALLY reading Andy's serve. Geez, it took him long enough.

R.Federer
07-06-2007, 05:38 PM
The tb record is probably going to last a little while I would say. Right now, I think he needs to focus on other things than his tb streak :o

elessar
07-06-2007, 05:38 PM
Two great runs in tie breakers ended today thx to Richard and Baggy. Which players are on a similar run ?

Stensland
07-06-2007, 06:29 PM
so will you stop praising andy's "mental toughness" now? he just lost 2 tiebreakers to a guy who doesn't even know what mental warfare feels like.

FedererGrandSlam
07-06-2007, 07:09 PM
Congrats Andy on that awesome record. So much more precious than, say, a Wimbledon semifinal appearance. :worship:

Marek.
07-06-2007, 07:16 PM
I get the feeling he's going to be shit in tie-breaks again.:o

R.Federer
07-08-2007, 07:06 PM
Federer is catching up .... sort of! :)

He is 14-3 now. And his TB wins have come on huge occasions.

On an unrelated matter, Federer became the ace leader for the tournament!!!! Fantastic

1.R.Federer - 85
2.A.Roddick - 84
3.T.Berdych - 79
4.W.Arthurs - 65
5.G.Monfils - 64
6.N.Djokovic - 61
7.J.Ferrero - 60
8.I.Ljubicic - 55
9.R.Soderling - 51
10.J.Tipsarevic - 50

rmb6687
07-08-2007, 10:23 PM
outdone by Rogie yet again in that aces record. And I don't think Andy's record will diminish too much as the year progresses. Unlike last year when he was just shitty in general, I think he knows how to deal with hard losses and such, and won't let his confidence drop to where it was.

Marek.
07-08-2007, 10:34 PM
outdone by Rogie yet again in that aces record. And I don't think Andy's record will diminish too much as the year progresses. Unlike last year when he was just shitty in general, I think he knows how to deal with hard losses and such, and won't let his confidence drop to where it was.

I hope you're right. It's just that this was such a devastating loss it could affect him for a while. Hopefully Jimmy is able to get him through it since he had his share of bad losses (he lost a two set lead on Borg at Wimbledon 1981 with the first set being a bagel :tape:).

tangerine_dream
07-08-2007, 11:02 PM
outdone by Rogie yet again in that aces record.
Does it really matter that much? :shrug: Roger had two more matches than Andy in which to count his aces.

R.Federer
07-08-2007, 11:36 PM
Does it really matter that much? :shrug: Roger had two more matches than Andy in which to count his aces.
That is correct.
Roger played 205 games overall, whereas andy played 190 or so. Federer had 15 more games, and only one more ace.

rmb6687
07-09-2007, 03:04 AM
Does it really matter that much? :shrug: Roger had two more matches than Andy in which to count his aces.

That is correct.
Roger played 205 games overall, whereas andy played 190 or so. Federer had 15 more games, and only one more ace.

yes, I did realize that, I was being facetious.

And regarding the rest of this year, I guess we will see how much greater his confidence is and if it can sustain a loss such as this. Anything should be better than last year.

R.Federer
08-08-2007, 09:33 PM
Ancic the new TB win % leader....100% in tiebreaks (1-0) :D

That aside, looking at only those players with over 5 TB, the new TB win % leader is Donald Young! :eek:

EDIT: Ancic not Odesnik is the leader

R.Federer
08-08-2007, 09:36 PM
And on other streaks, Federer is at 12 in a row now. He has a chance to break Andy's record of this year, although it is still many away.

Of course once you say that, he loses the next one. So let's see.

Voo de Mar
08-08-2007, 09:37 PM
Odesnik and Ancic are the new TB win % leaders....100% in tiebreaks (1-0) :D


How? Odesnik lost two tie-breaks to Isner last week :confused:

R.Federer
08-08-2007, 09:43 PM
How? Odesnik lost two tie-breaks to Isner last week :confused:
Sorry.... you are correct.

It is Ancic who is the leader! Or, I should say "leader" .

Voo de Mar
08-08-2007, 09:49 PM
That aside, looking at only those players with over 5 TB, the new TB win % leader is Donald Young! :eek:


Hmmm. I don't understand why you've mentioned this guy. He has never won a single TB in career (main tour). Did you think about his this years tie-break record in Challengers which is barely 4-3? :shrug:

R.Federer
08-08-2007, 09:55 PM
Hmmm. I don't understand why you've mentioned this guy. He has never won a single TB in career (main tour). Did you think about his this years tie-break record in Challengers which is barely 4-3? :shrug:

I am losing it. I meant Tsonga!!!! I confused one young guy for the other. It's Tsonga who is 6-1 and the leader.

Voo de Mar
08-08-2007, 09:58 PM
I am losing it. I meant Tsonga!!!! I confused one young guy for the other. It's Tsonga who is 6-1 and the leader.

:smoke:

Voo de Mar
08-08-2007, 10:50 PM
And on other streaks, Federer is at 12 in a row now. He has a chance to break Andy's record of this year, although it is still many away.


That's right.
Andy is on the TB-rollercoaster. He broke previous record, winning 18 tie-breaks in a row, then lost 4 in a row, and now he has won 5 in a row :lol:

Voo de Mar
06-24-2009, 10:26 PM
Robredo only 2 tie-breaks to overcome Roddick's record :o

Voo de Mar
06-26-2009, 04:26 PM
^ Good jinx, Robredo had two setpoints to equal Roddick's record against Sela :lol:

Frooty_Bazooty
06-26-2009, 05:06 PM
thats really impressive from robredo, i had no idea that he was so good at tiebreaks.

Voo, is there anyone else who is currently on a streak of more than 10?

romaine
06-26-2009, 09:13 PM
18 TBs in a row is fantastic. Actually more than 7 or 8 in a row is already outstanding imhO. Reading this thread now I think I remember Boris Becker having a year in which he lost only 3 TBs or so if I remember that correctly. I believe in 1992? Maybe someone has stats for that. I also remember that the year after that he hardly won any TB and had his worst year ever...

Voo de Mar
06-27-2009, 03:46 AM
Voo, is there anyone else who is currently on a streak of more than 10?

Roddick has won 10 in a row since Miami '09 :lol: Is he able to beat own record?

Reading this thread now I think I remember Boris Becker having a year in which he lost only 3 TBs or so if I remember that correctly. I believe in 1992? Maybe someone has stats for that. I also remember that the year after that he hardly won any TB and had his worst year ever...

23-7 in 1992, 13-16 in 1993.

Forehander
06-27-2009, 03:51 AM
His serve is an incredible weapon that gives opponents a whole ton of pressure so not a surprise there.

Pea
06-27-2009, 04:06 AM
rodduck having the record is boring. Robredo being this close to it is amazing.

R.Federer
06-27-2009, 04:40 AM
His serve is an incredible weapon that gives opponents a whole ton of pressure so not a surprise there.

Yes...... and no? :shrug:
His serve is a big weapon, so he should be able to hold relatively easily and put pressure on the service games of the opponents. So why is he having to play so many tiebreakers at all?

Voo de Mar
06-27-2009, 04:56 AM
relatively easily and put pressure on the service games of the opponents. So why is he having to play so many tiebreakers at all?

Lack of return skills :shrug:

OrinUK
06-27-2009, 05:03 AM
All well and good, but it's a pity he always rolls over like a little bitch for Federer and says ahhh.

jcempire
06-27-2009, 05:44 AM
sampras still holds the record for most ever won though, right?

It's interesting to note that Sampras had that streak in his worst year (2000 - 2001), if he had played better he wouldn't have had to play so many tie breaks.


you right.

And even he played in his worst year but still finish Top 5 at Age 30

mistercrabs
06-27-2009, 04:05 PM
Yes...... and no? :shrug:
His serve is a big weapon, so he should be able to hold relatively easily and put pressure on the service games of the opponents. So why is he having to play so many tiebreakers at all?

That's easy. Because he's got nothing but the serve. He's totally one-dimensional. If you took away Roddick's serve, he'd lose 90% of his matches. If you took away Federer's he'd still win 70% of his matches. That's why it's so gratifying to watch Federer demolish Roddick time after time. Roddick is a 90s player and Federer ended the 90s with his ascendancy.

romaine
06-27-2009, 05:10 PM
Roddick has won 10 in a row since Miami '09 :lol: Is he able to beat own record?



23-7 in 1992, 13-16 in 1993.

Ok, wow. My memory served me wrong here but 92 was still a pretty good year for him when it comes to TBs! 93 not so much...

HeretiC
06-27-2009, 05:12 PM
Roddick has won 10 in a row since Miami '09 :lol: Is he able to beat own record?



2 more for Roddick in a match against Melzer.

Voo de Mar
06-27-2009, 05:14 PM
^ Roddick has won 12 in a row, so a good prospect for him to beat own record this year ;)