Andy withdraws Hamburg [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Andy withdraws Hamburg

Carito_90
05-07-2004, 01:11 AM
I'm not sure if Deb or someone else posted this... but still, i'm gonna post it again lol

Andy Withdraws From Tennis Master Hamburg


by: webmaster


5/6/2004 -- "Due to soreness in his left knee, Andy Roddick withdrew today from next week's Tennis Masters Hamburg. Andy has returned home to Florida where he will spend the next few days recovering. He will then begin his preparations for the French Open."


Okay... now i'm starting to get worried about the damn knee.. what do ya think?

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 01:14 AM
Yea Mani posted it while I was out with my parents

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=10399 we're talking about it there

andyroxmysox12191
05-07-2004, 01:17 AM
no wonder i got it the article before deb :lol:

Carito_90
05-07-2004, 01:22 AM
damn it :mad: lol

star
05-07-2004, 01:34 AM
I wonder what is the deal with the knee.

At least, he's going to Florida and not Austin.

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 01:39 AM
lol I thought about you when I saw that... in florida he can have mom and dad take care of him lol... he and Mardy can hang out and do rehab together :o

I wonder if it's the same knee he had surgery on way back in 2000. and I wonder why he downplayed it so adamantly in his press conference after his match. Hopefully it's just precautionary to make sure he is 100% healthy for the French. But with no match play I don't think it will even matter :(

tangerine_dream
05-07-2004, 01:41 AM
God, can Rome's curse suck even more now? Knee problems, out of Hamburg, going into RG cold. Bah! I don't want him to go back next year. Just stay the hell home, Andy. :sad:

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 01:44 AM
I said most of my other thoughts in the thread star had started but this sums it all up for the most part...... :sad: :banghead: :o :bigcry: :mad: :hug:

Carito_90
05-07-2004, 02:10 AM
Knee problems, out of Hamburg, going into RG cold.

Fire in his hotel :)

he and Mardy can hang out and do rehab together


Duh i wouldn't mind doing rehab with em ;)

Havok
05-07-2004, 03:12 AM
:sad:

J. Corwin
05-07-2004, 03:49 AM
This is very unfortunate.

argiesf
05-07-2004, 06:35 PM
The Duck can't "ADAPT" to Clay!!! Poor thing! :haha:

Havok
05-07-2004, 06:55 PM
He's injured, and look at the person in your avatar and tell him to adapt to grass:tape:

argiesf
05-07-2004, 07:10 PM
Grass is for Horses!! ... and Ducks!! :haha: Poor thing!

PS This is great! :banana:

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 07:42 PM
Naldo Naldo Naldo!! http://forum.racesimcentral.com/images/smilies/feedtroll.gif

Oh and argiesf.... http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s23/smilies-33632.png

:wavey:

Havok
05-07-2004, 07:56 PM
Hey if you can dish it out, the least you can do is take it back:tape: anyways this thread is done yay:D

argiesf
05-07-2004, 07:58 PM
The Duckies are steaming!! :haha: :banana:

PS I enjoy seeing Duckies react. :banana: :haha:

Fumus
05-07-2004, 08:46 PM
Arg how is Coria doing? :)

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 08:55 PM
Skyler!! http://forum.racesimcentral.com/images/smilies/feedtroll.gif

Fumus
05-07-2004, 09:02 PM
sorry...Mom..

zoltan83
05-07-2004, 09:03 PM
:sad: Too bad... But if he is ok for RG, it's good.

J. Corwin
05-07-2004, 09:14 PM
Yes let's stop feeding the troll. She obviously has nothing better to do.

He should be ok for RG, and that's what matters the most.

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 09:16 PM
yes Jace.... I'm hoping it's just precautionary to make sure he is 100%.

We better hear about him being in Paris at least a week before that tournament starts.

Havok
05-07-2004, 09:16 PM
He should be fine come RG time. His knee injury seems as more of a precausion more than a serious injury. Had it have been more serious, I think we would have heard a lot more stories about it other than that one article up on his own website. 2 weeks is plenty of time to get the knee back to proper shape and to practice for Roland Garros

Fumus
05-07-2004, 09:17 PM
Yea...soorry didn't mean to be a troll feeder..

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 09:22 PM
2 weeks is plenty of time to get the knee back to proper shape and to practice for Roland Garros

Yes, that's what he pays Dougie an arm and a leg for :lol:

J. Corwin
05-07-2004, 09:25 PM
Maybe taking Agassi's clay court scheduling would have been more prudent.

(jk)

Havok
05-07-2004, 09:27 PM
lol, well I'm sure Doug deserves all the money he's being payed. I'm sure Doug is getting paid more from Andy that the ATP Tour, and he only has to take care of one guy as opposed to the whole lot of them. I always :D When I see Dougie Spreen in the stands, I dunno why. Maybe it's because I'm glad Andy got him before anybody else did:p

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 09:54 PM
LOL Jace!

Doug is cool and he and Andy have a lot of fun together and joke around a lot... but he's a small guy and he wears Andy's clothes and if Andy's clothes are way too big on Andy... just imagine what they look like on Doug - it looks like he's dressed in a tent, seriously!!!!!

tangerine_dream
05-07-2004, 11:11 PM
Oh and argiesf.... http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s23/smilies-33632.png
:wavey:

:haha: :haha: :haha: :yeah: wtg, bunk :kiss:

Deboogle!.
05-07-2004, 11:13 PM
*bows*

and thanks to those who contributed to the smilies thread - it's really quite useful :devil:

star
05-08-2004, 02:32 AM
Arg how is Coria doing? :)

Coria is doing just fine. He's in Hamburg practicing and getting ready to go next week. :)

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 02:40 AM
To tell u the truth, i would have prefered Coria not playing Hamburg. I mean, i'm glad he's doing fine, but i dont want the same that happened in Australia to happen in Hamburg. I know he has points to defend but still.. I think the most recomendable thing was to stay at home practising, skippin Hamburg, and be 100% for RG. Anyways, it's his desition... if he think he's doing the right thing, then it's okay.

What i wanna know is if there is a week off in the middle of Hamburg and RG.

Havok
05-08-2004, 02:49 AM
Yes there is CArito;)

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 02:52 AM
Oh alrighty then... it's okay if he plays Hamburg.. :rolleyes:

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 03:11 AM
LOL Carito...

well he has winner's points to defend, so he really kinda needs to play if he's really dedicated to becoming #1 at some point, and it's obviously a place he feels comfortable there and plays well so if he's healthy enough he should play.

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 03:20 AM
Exactly... that's the point. He's probably wants to start playing back as soon as possible, especially having so many points to defend. But he also has lots of points to defend in RG. He got to the semifinal last year and if he's not 100% after Hamburg then, even though he may have defended the points he got last year, he's still not going to do very well at RG which means he'll lose many points.
So i guess he has to be aware of everything.. poor guy lol

No but still, if he feels he's okay enough to play, then he has to go for it.

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 03:24 AM
well at least he has the week off... I don't think he plays in Casablanca right?

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 03:27 AM
As far as i know, he wont.
And yeah, thank god he has the week off... is it like that before each Grand Slam? (i mean, the week off)

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 03:34 AM
it's up to the players.... I think Brad prefers Andy not play the week before a slam, but some of them do, sure.

star
05-08-2004, 04:10 AM
Lots of them play in the World Team Tennis tournament. It's sort of a way to keep sharp and not play too much. Sampras used to play there a lot. So, I hope Andy stays away. ;)

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 04:16 AM
LOL! Do you mean the thing at Dusseldorf?

Andy only played that once didn't he? 2002 or something? If he were smart he'd try for a WC into St. Poelten to get a few matches in on clay, but I think I read somewhere that it's Brad's thing to not play the week before a slam (though he did play Kooyong before the AO and is scheduled for an exho before Wimby)

Havok
05-08-2004, 04:44 AM
World Team Tennis isn't the thing is Dusseldorf Deb;) WTT is like teams belonging to different states and they each have one main *star* in their team and they play matches vs eachother, like superset mixed doubles, doubles, singles, etc. Andy plays for the St. Louis Aces am I correct :scratch: I don't think Andy should ask for a WC into St. Poelten, it'd be a waste imo better to get to Roland GArros a week before and practice at the actual place. And Deb playing exhibitions are different than actual matches;)

star
05-08-2004, 05:04 AM
Ok... What is the name of the thing in Dusseldorf?

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 12:44 PM
World Team Cup I think?

I know WTT is not the same as the thing in Dusseldorf, but I thought that's what star was talking about (since she told Andy to stay away and Andy plays WTT so that wouldn't have made sense lol) :)

and duh I know exhos are not like actual matches.... but Andy is like crazy compeititive man - does he know how to take it down a notch? ;)

star
05-08-2004, 02:01 PM
There you go. Thanks. :)

Yeah, Naldo. It was me that made the mistake. I just had the wrong name.

My personal opinion is that Andy should get to Europe at least a week ahead of time. I've really got no patience for the way he is treating the European season right now.

And practicing on clay is NOT the same as getting match practice on clay. He needs to be playing competitive matches. It's just like he's throwing the whole season away. Crazy.

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 07:10 PM
Yup, i agree star.
Look what happened in Rome :rolleyes:

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 07:12 PM
star I totally agree.

And I'm starting to get really fed up too.

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 07:20 PM
The thing is that he probably doesn't care about the clay season much (neither does Brad probably). He knows he cant achieve very good results. I guess he's looking foward to the grass season.

tangerine_dream
05-08-2004, 07:22 PM
He's just having a bit of a bad run right now. I'm confident he'll do better at RG. :)

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 07:27 PM
He'll probably do better than last year :rolleyes:

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 07:29 PM
well IMO he needs to start caring about the clay season or people will just continue to laugh at him. I thought he really cared about the clay season this year and he's totally been a disappointment. He should've taken houston off and played MC instead. I don't really fault him for Rome because I can't imagine what he went through and even players like Spadea and Ginepri have said that they're sure the fire affected his mentality for that match - especially against a tough player like Canas. I mean that's not his fault. But, if he has pulled ouf of Hamburg under the guise of a sore knee but really just to rest more.... ugh.

I mean he's gotta care about the FO. It's a SLAM. I'm tired of people laughing at him but the fact that he currently pretty much deserves it doesn't help the cause lol.

I said this after he pulled out of MC and I said it after his loss in Rome and I'll say it one last time I guess. He's now made it so that he HAS to go win a few matches at RG or he'll just be a complete laughing stock.

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 07:41 PM
well IMO he needs to start caring about the clay season or people will just continue to laugh at him.

c'mon.. he's millionair, he's got the look, the game and he's #2 in the world.. do you think he actually cares if people laugh at him? lol
But yeah, he needs to improve a lil bit more... but with a coach like gilbert who's never won a single match on clay (i'm not saying his a bad coach, at all!) it'll be kinda difficult to improve.

He should've taken houston off and played MC instead.

He should have... but you know, i can understand why he played. He's been playing that tourney since 2000. They gave him a WC* when he was still nobody. So you know... he probably wants to return the favour by playing there every year, even if it means skippin a week off.

*: not sure about this tho lol

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 07:47 PM
If Andy is serious about being the best (which I believe that he is) then he's got to care. The millions, the look, the ladies, whatever, it doesn't help him be the best. Maybe he doesn't care about people laughing at him, but I do. the world #2 and last year's #1 player shouldn't be laughed at, but yet he pretty much deserves it at this point. I don't really think Brad's lack of playing on clay has much to do with how Andy will do. Brad can only do so much anyway, the rest is up to Andy. Plus, much of what Brad has helped Andy with is his mentality and how to think about the matches - that kind of stuff transcends surface, plus I maintain that Andy's biggest problem on clay is confidence and mindset, and we know that Brad has helped Andy with these types of things a lot.

I know why Andy plays Houston (yes you're right, it was a WC in 2001 and Andy won the tournament), but that doesn't mean it's the right decision for him. His loyalty is incredible and admirable, but I believe in this case it could be to the detriment of his career (of course if he had skipped Monte Carlo and then done really well at Rome we might've said something different lol). I questioned him playing Houston waaaaaaay back in what, December or January when Andy's 2004 schedule was released (I dug up the thread... http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=327374&postcount=18). I only question it even more now.

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 07:55 PM
okay you just shutted me tf up lol

just one thing... i didn't want andy to play Houston either, not after everything he had already played. But as I said before, i can understand why he did.

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 08:01 PM
lol sorry that wasn't my intent. I'm just :mad: at Andy right now. When he wins a couple matches at RG, I won't be :mad: anymore

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 08:09 PM
Besides, I think it's not that he just says "okay, to hell with clay".
He's trying, he's doing as much as he can. It must be tough for him to play on clay.
I know, he should be playing more tournaments in Europe.

But you know, I think his (or brad's? lol) strategy it's pretty wise. He kicks his ass off in the summer hard court season and when it's time to play the clay season, he already has points enough to skip some tourneys of the clay season (or play some but not do very well on em) without dropping any spots... I'd do the same if i was in his place lol

Carito_90
05-08-2004, 08:11 PM
lol sorry that wasn't my intent. I'm just at Andy right now. When he wins a couple matches at RG, I won't be anymore

:lol: don't worry

I know.. but he's just a kid. He has some years to improve his results on clay ;) and so you wont be :mad: at him lol

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 08:19 PM
He's trying, he's doing as much as he can. It must be tough for him to play on clay.
I know, he should be playing more tournaments in Europe.

The fact that it's tough is part of the challenge. That should only make him want to work even harder to do well on it. It's also the fact that many of the top clay-courters are very quickly improving their play on hardcourts. If Andy doesn't respond soon and improve his clay results, he'll get left in the dust (literally and figuratively LOL)


But you know, I think his (or brad's? lol) strategy it's pretty wise. He kicks his ass off in the summer hard court season and when it's time to play the clay season, he already has points enough to skip some tourneys of the clay season (or play some but not do very well on em) without dropping any spots... I'd do the same if i was in his place lol

IMO this is quite risky. It worked last year but the odds of Andy being able to repeat that are just... well almost nothing. Anything can happen that would prevent that, let alone it just being highly unlikely! And like I said, the "clay-courters" have improved SO much on hardcourts that it just makes it that much harder for him to make up that kind of ground in the hardcourt season. And the problem is that the clay season is BEFORE the hard season. So he can't play the hard season and then plan his clay schedule depending on how he does.

And it also feels like all the hard work he did in the spring season to get the two titles and win Miami are almost for naught since he lost such amazing opportunities to pick up even more ground on clay.

I just need to stop talking about this til I get over it I think. In a few weeks or something I'll look back and be mad at myself for being so harsh lol

tangerine_dream
05-08-2004, 08:21 PM
I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion a bit. :explode:

It's obvious that the French Open is their No. 1 clay priority right now. Why play through Hamburg with a hurt knee which would only get more aggravated and possibly set him up for another early-round crash out at Roland Garros?

I think Andy would've played fine in Rome if that hotel fire hadn't happened. I am surprised that it affected him as much as it did but what can you do? He's back home to regroup and get the knee therapy and hang out with Mardy so I think it's all good.

And as far as the usual idiots on MTF "making fun of him" for not being a 'clay-court specialist', well are they also making fun of Coria and his lack of grass game because I think they should. Wimbledon is THE tournament to win and if you can't win on grass then you're nothing, right? Please. :rolleyes:

Andy can clearly play and win on clay when he's got clay on his mind. He's made the Houston finals four years in a row. It's the same clay as RG and just because "real" clay-court players aren't in Houston doesn't mean Andy had a cakewalk to the finals. :rolleyes: He's made the final of St Poelten. He's made it to the semis at Rome. And he's won on clay for Davis Cup in foreign countries. He's a more well-rounded player than people give him credit for.

I think once Andy's recovered from the Rome curse and relaxed a bit, he will be ready to go at RG. :dance:

andyroxmysox12191
05-08-2004, 08:32 PM
tangy you always look on the brighter side :hug:

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 08:34 PM
he won St. Poelten tangy :) But obviously that didn't help him prepare for RG last year lol! and actually his clay DC record is pretty poor. I think the only match he's won on clay in DC is last fall against Beck. He lost to Grosjean and Clement in 2002 in France and Hrbaty last year. But Davis Cup is really different anyway - I don't know that I'd draw a whole lot from that either way.

Maybe I am blowing it out of proportion.... there's no way to tell til after RG, and really, even til after we see what happens during Andy's strongest seasons - grass and summer hardcourts. If he does well and calls my bluff and makes it so this horror of a clay season didn't really matter, then I'll be first in line to apologize to him and say I was wrong :)

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 09:25 PM
ok a couple people at AR.com are saying that Andy was crying the other day when he had the trainer out to look at his knee. Can any more objective person confirm or deny this? lol

tangerine_dream
05-08-2004, 10:00 PM
Well, I don't think the situation is all that dire. Roger crashed out, too. Lots of good players crashed out early. I think he will eventually figure out the clay riddle, if not this year, then next year. And then there's always the year after that. Andy has some time. :lol:

ok a couple people at AR.com are saying that Andy was crying the other day when he had the trainer out to look at his knee. Can any more objective person confirm or deny this? lol

Good luck finding one. :lol:

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 10:07 PM
Well, I don't think the situation is all that dire. Roger crashed out, too. Lots of good players crashed out early. I think he will eventually figure out the clay riddle, if not this year, then next year. And then there's always the year after that. Andy has some time. :lol:

well I really hope you are right! But as of right now, Andy really still has to prove it to me. the "he is capable and just hasn't had good results yet" thing is really getting old for me, as is the "he is young and has time" - yes he has time but when his contemporaries keep improving on their weakest surfaces, to me it becomes more dire. I guess we'll find out how Moya, Coria, and Ferrero do on the turf.

Good luck finding one. :lol:

Well Carito and Fumus saw the match, and I trust them both than the over-excited teenies at AR.com! I just can't imagine Andy crying to a trainer lmfao... but considering how weird it sounds like his mental state was during that match, who knows? I'm just curious lol

tangerine_dream
05-08-2004, 10:17 PM
Did Fumus and Carito confirm that Andy was crying? I don't remember hearing about it. I can't imagine Andy being in tears over a "sore knee" but like you said, who the hell knows what mental state he was in at the time?

I just hope he has a nice recovery time at home and then goes to the French Open ready to kick some clay butt! :)

J. Corwin
05-08-2004, 10:23 PM
The main disappointment I have with Andy is that he could have used this clay season as a cushion so he doesn't have to defend all of his crapload of points from Queens til US Open. It would have taken some pressure off and he wouldn't have to win as much. But now it looks like he'll "have to" repeat last summer.

J. Corwin
05-08-2004, 10:23 PM
Oh and crying....interesting.

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 10:54 PM
no tangy, that's why I asked lol...I trust Carito or Fumus but they didn't mention it, so I figured I'd specifically ask :)

and EXACTLY Jace, that's what disappoints me the most too. From Queens on, Andy has huge points to defend in pretty much every single tournament thorugh the USO.

Sjengster
05-08-2004, 11:08 PM
I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion a bit. :explode:

It's obvious that the French Open is their No. 1 clay priority right now. Why play through Hamburg with a hurt knee which would only get more aggravated and possibly set him up for another early-round crash out at Roland Garros?

I think Andy would've played fine in Rome if that hotel fire hadn't happened. I am surprised that it affected him as much as it did but what can you do? He's back home to regroup and get the knee therapy and hang out with Mardy so I think it's all good.

And as far as the usual idiots on MTF "making fun of him" for not being a 'clay-court specialist', well are they also making fun of Coria and his lack of grass game because I think they should. Wimbledon is THE tournament to win and if you can't win on grass then you're nothing, right? Please. :rolleyes:

Andy can clearly play and win on clay when he's got clay on his mind. He's made the Houston finals four years in a row. It's the same clay as RG and just because "real" clay-court players aren't in Houston doesn't mean Andy had a cakewalk to the finals. :rolleyes: He's made the final of St Poelten. He's made it to the semis at Rome. And he's won on clay for Davis Cup in foreign countries. He's a more well-rounded player than people give him credit for.

I think once Andy's recovered from the Rome curse and relaxed a bit, he will be ready to go at RG. :dance:

It's true that you should never risk aggravating an injury, but there's no doubt that the best form of practice is matchplay against the best players on this surface at the biggest tournaments, like Hamburg. Only playing one European clay-court match coming in to RG will surely dent Roddick's chances a little, even if physically he has little choice about it.

Equally I think you're exaggerating the effect of the fire upon Roddick's loss; I saw the whole of the Canas match and while he displayed mental weaknesses, they were undoubtedly closely connected to the technical and tactical problems he has on clay. It's far more than his mindset that he has to work on to become a truly effective clay player. In other words, I doubt his play would have been up to scratch with or without the fire, although that was undoubtedly a contributing factor to the defeat.

It's true that no-one ever mentions Coria's weakness on grass, but then look at the schedule and ask yourself: how much does that matter compared to Roddick's weakness on clay? I wish it were otherwise, but at the moment the grass-court season is so insignificant in terms of number of events that it hardly damages Coria's standing in the game or his ranking by not playing well on grass. He has played two grass tournaments in his life, both first-round exits at Wimbledon, whereas Roddick has easily played more than a dozen clay tournaments in his career. No-one is asking that he become a clay-court specialist, simply that he become a proficient player on all surfaces as one would expect from a player at the very top of the game.

Never mind the lack of quality clay-court players in Houston, a more relevant question is: how many of them, outside the Americans, are even Top 50? Certainly not Carlsen, Kendrick or Melzer, three of Roddick's opponents on his way to the final this year. His one creditable victory was in the semis over Horna, who defeated both Federer and Ferrero in straight sets on clay last year. He has had good clay wins during the course of his career (from 2002, Gonzalez in Monte Carlo and Pavel in Rome stand out), but then has followed them up with rather poor losses, and the only way to beat a string of good-quality opponents is to get plenty of matches against them, learn mistakes from early losses and how to improve before doing so on the practice court. Houston clearly has to go from his schedule if he's to do this.

At this moment in time, given Federer's early exit in Rome, the best performer on all surfaces is Nalbandian (also someone who has struggled recently at RG, though). I would say that that's the kind of player people would expect Roddick to become in terms of results, since Nalbandian is hardly a clay specialist but always has good showings at clay tournaments. Federer is someone who needs to improve on clay as well, maybe not as much as Roddick but his RG record is hardly looking stellar at the moment either. It wouldn't say much for the game if the world's top two players couldn't win a round at one of the Slams for the third year in a row.

Deboogle!.
05-08-2004, 11:22 PM
I don't think I've ever said this before.... but I agree with almost everything you said Sjengster. Just a couple things to add...

in regards to the fire, I see that as the type of thing that rattled him just enough so that he couldn't focus enough to play his best, plus he hinted at little physical effects from the fire - his back a little stiff from catching 7 people, his feet a little scraped from not wearing shoes - and I think you put it quite well, none of it directly caused to the loss but it was all sort of there in the background and that combined with a player like Canas with such tenacity, it was the perfect recipe for the distaster that transpired.

Certainly Andy has problems on clay, with his serve and forehand being muted, his movement suspect, etc etc, and he probably always will. But I think if Andy had played his best that the match would have been, if not winnable, at least much closer. and I still believe that confidence is the root of a lot of it. I think his insecurity on the surface makes him play a little more tentatively than normal, which just makes it that much easier for his weaknesses to be exploited.

As for why people don't harp on Coria as much as they do Andy...I think Andy falls into that stigma that Americans suck on clay, and that's something far bigger and more encompassing than him - Pete will never live his lack of a RG title down, and this idea has just continued to Andy (and Mardy, James, Robby, Taylor, et al). Plus, on this board, I find it difficult to ignore the fact that a lot of people simply have negative feelings towards Andy and are simply just going to point out his shortcomings more than some others. This doesn't really bother me, except when loons like argiesf say completely ridiculous things about Andy doing badly at RG but then blatantly ignore his/her own fave's shortcomings (but ahhhhh gotta love that ignore option). Andy deserves the criticism, whether he gets more of it than someone else or not.

tangerine_dream
05-08-2004, 11:29 PM
Guess he'll just have to win Wimbledon AND the US Open. ;)

Sjengster
05-08-2004, 11:47 PM
I don't think I've ever said this before.... but I agree with almost everything you said Sjengster. Just a couple things to add...

in regards to the fire, I see that as the type of thing that rattled him just enough so that he couldn't focus enough to play his best, plus he hinted at little physical effects from the fire - his back a little stiff from catching 7 people, his feet a little scraped from not wearing shoes - and I think you put it quite well, none of it directly caused to the loss but it was all sort of there in the background and that combined with a player like Canas with such tenacity, it was the perfect recipe for the distaster that transpired.

Certainly Andy has problems on clay, with his serve and forehand being muted, his movement suspect, etc etc, and he probably always will. But I think if Andy had played his best that the match would have been, if not winnable, at least much closer. and I still believe that confidence is the root of a lot of it. I think his insecurity on the surface makes him play a little more tentatively than normal, which just makes it that much easier for his weaknesses to be exploited.

As for why people don't harp on Coria as much as they do Andy...I think Andy falls into that stigma that Americans suck on clay, and that's something far bigger and more encompassing than him - Pete will never live his lack of a RG title down, and this idea has just continued to Andy (and Mardy, James, Robby, Taylor, et al). Plus, on this board, I find it difficult to ignore the fact that a lot of people simply have negative feelings towards Andy and are simply just going to point out his shortcomings more than some others. This doesn't really bother me, except when loons like argiesf say completely ridiculous things about Andy doing badly at RG but then blatantly ignore his/her own fave's shortcomings (but ahhhhh gotta love that ignore option). Andy deserves the criticism, whether he gets more of it than someone else or not.

Oh you have bunk, you have - not very often, but maybe a couple of times. ;)

It's interesting that Roddick competed hard in the first set and had chances to win it, but then at the same time if he'd been facing a more confident player he wouldn't have had those chances - Canas' low confidence compared to two years ago showed in the way he choked away the setpoints he had when he served for it at 5-4. I do think if he'd closed it out there instead of being pushed to a tiebreak, Roddick would not have capitulated as badly as he did in the second set since the first set wouldn't have taken as much out of him as it did. I must say I didn't notice him crying to the trainer, though.

It's the old issue of finding a balance between aggression and patience - become too impetuous and you will give away far too many unforced errors, but sit back and try to grind it out and you will become too passive and get sucked into your opponent's game style. Federer had the same problem when he lost to Costa this week, and it was much in evidence against Horna at RG last year.

I suppose if one can make generalisations about national playing styles, it's fair to say that Americans have an aggressive and proactive style that doesn't lend itself too well to clay. Roddick, Fish and Dent's games are all based around their serves, while Blake may be fundamentally a baseliner but his game is hardly based around consistent, error-free tennis (his injury will at least only keep him out of a Slam that he had never much hope of doing well in anyway). And as for Ginepri, he's the only one who in theory has a game suited to clay, but chokes like the one he had against Mantilla will not do much for his confidence.

Carito_90
05-09-2004, 12:48 AM
Okay you guys said it all :eek: :worship:

Btw deb... no, andy was no way crying when his trainer was treating his knee! WTF said that?
Oh but he seemed he was about to cry when they made him a close up, when he was love-30 cañas serving for match. You could see his face was all red, and his eyes were sparkly... i'm not sure tho.
But no, he was DEFINETELY NOT crying while he was being treated.

Deboogle!.
05-09-2004, 03:03 AM
Oh you have bunk, you have - not very often, but maybe a couple of times. ;)

Well the instances are few and far between, but I enjoy it and would much rather continue to have nice discussions like this one from now on :)

I do think if he'd closed it out there instead of being pushed to a tiebreak, Roddick would not have capitulated as badly as he did in the second set since the first set wouldn't have taken as much out of him as it did.

Interesting point. Now mind you, I was only following the scoreboard online, but I said to Naldo on AIM that if Andy lost the first set that he would never be able to come back. This was before I even knew anything about how shaky he was mentally and of course well before he collapsed in the second but I could just feel that it wasn't there. It sounds like (and please confirm or deny this) that he was still very up and down in the first. One article I remember said he would play great and hit winner after winner and then have a spell of error after error. Andy isn't usually streaky THAT badly, so he was obviously off from the start and after Canas didn't let up (of course!) and after losing the first, he just couldn't fight as hard. This is just how it sounds to me. And it's all the more disappointing after he'd taken Monte Carlo off from being so mentally pooped.

It's the old issue of finding a balance between aggression and patience - become too impetuous and you will give away far too many unforced errors, but sit back and try to grind it out and you will become too passive and get sucked into your opponent's game style. Federer had the same problem when he lost to Costa this week, and it was much in evidence against Horna at RG last year.

I suppose if one can make generalisations about national playing styles, it's fair to say that Americans have an aggressive and proactive style that doesn't lend itself too well to clay.

Yes, this makes perfect sense. I still can't believe Ginepri blew 4 match points and lost that match 0-6 in the third. That's just.. wow bad lol. It also makes sense that that's why Spadea does well on clay too. He's definitely a grinder.

And thank you Carito and Sjengster for confirming the non-crying. I just knew that didn't happen lol. Those poor kids on AR.com, I really worry about them sometimes lol.

andyroxmysox12191
05-09-2004, 03:10 AM
Those poor kids on AR.com, I really worry about them sometimes lol.
they scare me :scared:
the newbies/getting off the newbie train, just kinda get me mad though

Carito_90
05-09-2004, 03:16 AM
Yeah, i even heard one of em saying that Andy was gonna win RG :scared:

dont wanna be mean but.. WHAT THE HECK'S WRONG WITH EM?!

Deboogle!.
05-09-2004, 03:19 AM
I don't think that's being mean at all. I think "WHAT THE HECK'S WRONG WITH EM?!" is a very valid question for someone who says with complete seriousness that Andy will win the French :haha:

andyroxmysox12191
05-09-2004, 03:24 AM
i'm gonna repeat this again..
if andy wins the french open, i will be laughing my ass off. that would be the funniest moment in my life.
he has a chance to but.....*starts laughing* :haha:

Deboogle!.
05-09-2004, 03:25 AM
and I'll repeat myself too lol. If Andy even made it to the SF or F I think I'd be so far gone passed out that I'd miss him winning :p

andyroxmysox12191
05-09-2004, 03:28 AM
:lol:
so true! i don't think i'd be able to rub it in my brothers face if he got that far cause i'll either be laughing or in the hospital with the doctors trying to wake me up

tangerine_dream
05-09-2004, 03:29 AM
I don't doubt that one day, Andy very well could win RG.

But not this year. :)

andyroxmysox12191
05-09-2004, 03:34 AM
watch him win this year
:haha: ok now i'm just kidding myself with this year.
but yeah sometime later in the future i can see andy winninng RG though i dont see him winning it that early on..

Carito_90
05-09-2004, 03:47 AM
I know.. i think i'd start laughing, pass out, and then i'd wake up to watch andy win FO again... and so on :lol: