Are you vegetarian??.. [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Are you vegetarian??..

Hangdog
04-21-2004, 07:34 AM
What're points and reasons?..
I haven't been but going to become..

Kristen
04-23-2004, 12:23 PM
I'm a vegetarian, but not Vegan. I don't eat any meat (includes seafood) and I don't eat things made mostly from eggs. (If it's a cake or biscuit, I'll eat it, but I don't eat omelettes basically. I'll eat eggs if I ever have my own chickens. I do drink milk, but don't eat/drink other dairy products often.

My reasons are:
1. It's flesh. That disgusts me. I havent had Beef/red meats since I was 14, or Chicken since I was 19 (Im 22 now). I'd be biting into my food & think
"hang on;this was alive not so long ago. It was a life. Now it's just 'food'?"

2. Animal Welfare point of view - I've seen the way these animals are treated (in terms on enclosures, cramped conditions etc). You see things like the Cormo Express drama on the news (in Aus), where Kuwait, or some nearby country wouldnt accept our livestock, so heaps of sheep were stranded on a cramped ship, in the middle of the ocean, in searing heat, for weeks on end. The conditions were appalling.

3. I try to think of all things equally. I treat my dog, and other animals, just as I'd treat any reasonable human being - with respect. I mean, I see the
'personality' my dog has, and even my crayfish has cute quirks about it. And I think about an animal (chicken/cow) as also having these characteristics.

Now, to see it from the other point of view, I don't disagree with eating animals. I just disagree with the way we farm them purely for our own pleasure; just to eat, and think nothing of. I can understand however, people that need to hunt for animals to survive. And I'm fine with that. It just saddens me the way we farm these animals, on a special "diet" to make them larger, faster, and become a better meal. check out the aussie animal liberation website for australia for more info if you like. They show the natural growth rates for chickens, compared to some farming standards.

I guess I'm so passionate about this, because I'm studying conservation at uni, but I'll end up working at a place like WWF or IFAW if I play my cards right, and I adore animals; and I don't like knowing of animals in pain :wavey:

Neely
04-23-2004, 12:54 PM
I just disagree with the way we farm them purely for our own pleasure; just to eat, and think nothing of.
yes, that's indeed true :sad:

Conan the Librarian
04-23-2004, 02:36 PM
I'll end up working at a place like WWF

Conan never took Bjorkman_Girl for a wrestling fan.

CooCooCachoo
04-23-2004, 03:03 PM
LOL

I am not a vegetarian, but my sister is and therefore we often eat vegetarian meals, often prepared by me but that's off-topic lol. I am not complaining at all, because a lot of times the food is of good quality and especially in for example spaghetti you don't really taste the difference between meat loaf and vegetarian replacers.

bobblehat
04-24-2004, 02:23 AM
I am going vegetarian slowly and gradually, have reduced meat intake right down, vegetarian sausages I like a lot and can live without meat as I dont eat it a lot, I am planning to stop eating meat altogether from my next birthday which is in a few days.

Mainly for reasons Bjorkman girl mentioned, its the conditions in which the animals are kept and the way they are virtually factory produced just for human consumption.

Also the benefits healthwise, vegetables and no cholerestal can only increase chances of a longer lifespan.

MisterQ
04-24-2004, 03:19 AM
I have gone through several stages of vegetarianism in my life.

STAGE 1: Real lacto-ovo-ichthyo(?)(lol). For several years I was a pretty good boy. I ate fish, but otherwise stuck to plant foods and dairy. I was thinner, healthier. Less muscular, though...

STAGE 2: "An American in Budapest" Ever been to Hungary? Even the side dishes there are pure meat. I hear the life expectancy there is the lowest in Europe. Vienna posed some similar challenges.

STAGE 3: "McDonald's vegetarian" Ate couscous until I was bored out of my mind, and then ran off for illicit burger runs with my friend Katy.

STAGE 4: Current stage. Vegetarian between meals. ;)

bobblehat
04-24-2004, 03:30 AM
Vegetarianism is not practical for some people, I would never expect a boxer for example to train on a bowl of Muesli. also peoples matabilisms are so different, some people need more protein than others, I can survive on a salad sandwich all day without feeling tired or lethergic.

I like your quote mr Q "vegetarian between meals" lol

Smankyou
04-24-2004, 03:30 AM
I'm a meat eater to the max. My family would dis-own me otherwise. lol

Bjorkman girl, just wondering if you wear leather (shoes, jackets etc)?

Mister Q, stage 4 sounds good to me.

CooCooCachoo
04-24-2004, 06:24 AM
LOL Mister Q :) :p

Peta Pan
04-24-2004, 01:07 PM
About 10 years ago I went vegetarian for about a year. Unfortunately it left me rather unwell. I really needed the protein intake and since I have a yeast allergy it meant I also couldn't eat mushrooms for extra protein. As for the meat replacement products... EEEW. I tried the vegetarian sausages once and they nearly made me throw up. I tried a few other products which I also had no luck with. Tofu is nice though - I love it!!!

These days I am very much a meat eater. I know about all the conditions that Bjorkman Girl mentioned (and I'm sure she will remind me of them while I'm staying with her next week :p) but I try not to think about them while I'm eating meat. Some meats are harder than others though - I still can't bring myself to eat veal or lamb (they are babies afterall :()

sam
04-24-2004, 01:25 PM
I tried it for a month but it made me feel tired- I wasn't getting enough Iron.

Lucie
04-24-2004, 02:40 PM
i'm not, but i don't eat that much meat, my mum is a vegetarian and so is my auntie and my granny so therefore i'm used to eating vegetarian food, if i go to a restuarant i choose the vegetarian option, because in general i think that vegetarian food is far healthier and far tastier!

CooCooCachoo
04-24-2004, 05:08 PM
As for the meat replacement products... EEEW

Well, since you have an allergy and a lot of replacement products are made of some sort of mushroom, this must've been a bad option anyway :)

I still can't bring myself to eat veal or lamb (they are babies afterall )


I have this same problem.. Can't eat that at all! Won't eat pork either usually, but that's just because it's not tasty :)

Billabong
04-24-2004, 05:53 PM
I'm not;)!

amethyst
04-24-2004, 08:49 PM
I´m vegetarian for over ten years now and still feeling very good! I just don´t want any creature to be killed so I can eat it.

Conan the Librarian
04-24-2004, 08:53 PM
Conan wonders if vegetarians ever have qualms about killing plants for food?

star
04-24-2004, 09:17 PM
Or here is the other question, will animals die because humans are consuming all thier fodder?

Conan the Librarian
04-24-2004, 09:32 PM
Conan is saving the plant population by eating all the animals!!

Kristen
04-25-2004, 03:06 AM
I'm a meat eater to the max. My family would dis-own me otherwise. lol

Bjorkman girl, just wondering if you wear leather (shoes, jackets etc)?

Mister Q, stage 4 sounds good to me.

Yeah I wear leather. I love my boots! But, I do feel bad about it. Shoes are the only leather items I own (3 prs of boots+ 1 work shoes) . I don't want them anywhere near my head :eek:

Kristen
04-25-2004, 03:16 AM
Conan wonders if vegetarians ever have qualms about killing plants for food?
Not at all. The majority of things can be regrown from the same plant... I hate it when people put up the argument "But you're killing plants too!" (Conan, I know this isn't what you're saying ;) )My ex bf, the one I described as 'Numb - Linkin Park' would say stupid things all the time. ARGH! I'm so embarrassed for dating him! lol and yeah, I'm joining the wrestling federation as soon as possible! I want to bring awareness to the world! :p

Or here is the other question, will animals die because humans are consuming all thier fodder?
I think so... but I don't think we're too far from the end anyway... humans are overpopulated and:
1) We're so big we're taking the animals habitat away from them... or eating them as bushmeat (I'm using primates as an example, as opposed to livestock) etc. So sad!

I despise mankind so much for that! lol...

Regarding vegetarian foods, I ate 2 soya burgers the other day, my boss bought them especially for me, so I didn't want to say no, but it was so fleshy! sort of. Gross! But, I love tofu in Thai foods! I tend to eat mostly pasta and pastry things, and take iron supplement pills - when i remember! :rolleyes:

On the vegetarian front, I find that people I know, are quite conscious about me being veggo. Which is kinda nice, because if I can get them to choose a veg option, rather than a juicy steak when we're at dinner, it kinda makes me (and them I suppose) feel good :)

oxy
04-25-2004, 04:11 AM
i eat both vegetables and meat....so that makes me a omnivorous

CooCooCachoo
04-25-2004, 04:48 PM
Conan is saving the plant population by eating all the animals!!

LOL :) I am sure you are. Good cause, mate!

MisterQ
04-25-2004, 05:00 PM
Would you eat a carnivorous plant? ;)

http://bestcarnivorousplants.com/dionaea/D_muscipula_sawtooth_trap_Copyright_R_Simek.jpg

Mrs. B
04-25-2004, 05:19 PM
good one, Q! :lol:

yeah, how about a Venus flytrap?

Conan the Librarian
04-25-2004, 05:35 PM
Conan would assume that depends if there is a fly trapped or not.

What about a triffid?

tomcat
04-25-2004, 05:39 PM
Would you eat a carnivorous plant? ;)

http://bestcarnivorousplants.com/dionaea/D_muscipula_sawtooth_trap_Copyright_R_Simek.jpg

lmao :lol: classic !


I am not a true veggie, I still eat fish but gave up meat about a year ago, I was never keen on red meat so wasnt a big sacrifice and since just eating fish its encouraged me to eat much more vegetables which can only be a good thing

star
04-25-2004, 05:52 PM
I think that everything in nature has to do with balance.

Someone once said that the elephant was bigger and lived longer than the lion because the elephant was a vegetarian, and, thus, the vegetarian way was superior.

However, the lion does not have a choice. A lion cannot survive on a vegetarian diet. Sometimes people misguidedly try to feed their cats a vegetarian diet. This causes all sorts of problems for the cat because they cannot digest most vegetable or grain protiens. The nature of a feline is to be a almost pure animal protien eater. Dogs however can digest corn protien, although sometimes this sort of diet results in algery problems for them.

There are apparently also human beings who do not benefit from a vegetarian diet.

I grew up in a diverse farming community but it was small farming. My family and others treated animals with kindness and human convenience and druthers were sacrificed to be sure that the animals were well cared for because they were dependent on humans. That is how we were taught, and it wasn't just that the animals were a capital investment. But we also ate them for food and consumed their eggs and milk. But from this background, I think that the treatment of animals that we depend on for food is very important. I am offened at the treatment of livestock animals. Factory farming is a very bad thing for animals.

I don't treat the animals in my care like humans. They get good, loving care, but if they were humans, they would have different treatment. I think that everyone is happier that way. Dogs aren't really happy in homes with people who don't take charge and help them with understanding their place in the order of the household. They become anxious and neurotic. I've seen far too many of these poor animals who are mistreated through a misguided sense of kindness. I've made the sad decision on several occasions to put a fatally sick or elderly animal down. I wouldn't do that with a human in my care.

I think that it is important to understand our place in nature and the sometimes catastrophic effects that human activity can have on nature as a whole much more than simply deciding not to consume animal products.

But, I have respect for people who make that decision.

nikki
04-25-2004, 06:04 PM
I was for about 3 weeks and didnt realise how much I missed eating meat.

Also I am in a job which is very physical so I guess another reason why I find it hard not to eat meat, I dont eat burgers anymore though, turkey, chicken mainly, I do admire people who dont eat meat though.

Conan the Librarian
04-25-2004, 06:16 PM
The nature of a feline is to be a almost pure animal protien eater.

Through various documentaries, Conan can verify that this is the truth. ONe he saw, called Tom & Jerry, the cat was relentlessly pursuing a mouse. IN another, Conan observed a cat called Sylvester attempt to eat a bird called Tweety Pie. Conan also saw Top CAt and watched numerous cats get fish out of bins, place it in their mouths and pull it out so only the bones came out. Conan found it remarkable how cats adapt to their environments.

star
04-25-2004, 06:24 PM
Even toon kitties :)

MisterQ
04-25-2004, 08:23 PM
Through various documentaries, Conan can verify that this is the truth. ONe he saw, called Tom & Jerry, the cat was relentlessly pursuing a mouse. IN another, Conan observed a cat called Sylvester attempt to eat a bird called Tweety Pie. Conan also saw Top CAt and watched numerous cats get fish out of bins, place it in their mouths and pull it out so only the bones came out. Conan found it remarkable how cats adapt to their environments.

:haha: :haha:

Conana must watch a lot of "documentaries!" ;)

CooCooCachoo
04-26-2004, 06:15 AM
Through various documentaries, Conan can verify that this is the truth. ONe he saw, called Tom & Jerry, the cat was relentlessly pursuing a mouse. IN another, Conan observed a cat called Sylvester attempt to eat a bird called Tweety Pie. Conan also saw Top CAt and watched numerous cats get fish out of bins, place it in their mouths and pull it out so only the bones came out. Conan found it remarkable how cats adapt to their environments.

You are so educated. I wish I had such experiences :p

Mrs. B
04-26-2004, 11:21 AM
:o

CooCooCachoo
04-27-2004, 07:18 AM
LOL :)

MisterQ
04-27-2004, 07:26 AM
Today I ate with some friends at a vegetarian restaurant on the Lower East Side. I had a dish called "Southern Friend Not Steak." :lol: I cannot explain how good this dish was. It was 99.5% as good as the original (a.k.a. heart-attack on a plate ;) )

denim
05-16-2004, 10:59 PM
I was very impressed and interested by Morrisey on chat show here in uk with his views on vegetarianism, I guessed he was a veggie by the song he made with the smiths "meat is murder" but he explained himself so well and said humans dont actually enjoy meat, we put things on it to make it taste nice and do stuff with it and cook it in certain ways as taste of flesh would not be good and made some very interesting points.

YoursTruly
06-13-2004, 06:02 AM
NO!!! I need meat! I eat all the food groups but MEAT of course!!! LOL

Leo
06-13-2004, 07:15 PM
I understand why many people are vegetarians. I will probably never become a full-time vegetarian, but I try to limit my meat in-take. The only meats I would find it hard to be completely without are beef and bacon.

*SKYE*
06-14-2004, 03:37 AM
i couldnt become a vegetarian.... theres just too mani tasti foods to eat!
eating vegies and fruit and healthi foods like that is good enuf for me let alone having to be without meat

Lalitha
06-14-2004, 10:29 AM
Yes, I am a vegeterian.

Nowadays, one gets to read a lot of stuff about how those animals are given injections to grow big and fast in a rather quick time. I don't know what type of injections are given to these animals, no idea whether it would harms us or in what way.

There is a wrong perception that only meat gives strength. As far as know, Elephant is a herbivorous animals and I don't doubt its strength.

Hangdog
06-16-2004, 10:27 PM
By the way, I know some sportsman, really good, who're vegetarians. Some strange way to the olympic gold...

Voo de Mar
01-20-2007, 04:35 AM
I'm vegetarian since 31st December 2005. I don't eat pork, beef, veal, chickens but I eat turkeys :p I don't eat also cheese and butter since my childhood (but I like pizza very much) :D Currently I'm five foot nine (175 cm) and my weight is 166 lbs (75 kg) so my diet is good for me :cool:

Nikki♥
01-20-2007, 08:54 AM
I have been a vegetarian for as long as I can think. I'm a big animal lover therefore I can't imagine myself eating them. :shrug:

*Ljubica*
01-20-2007, 08:59 AM
I am vegetarian and have been for over 20 years. I try not to preach my views to other people - it's a matter of personal choice - but to me, the idea of inflicting fear, pain and death on another living creature just for food when we can be healthy without it, is despicable

Naide
01-20-2007, 09:32 AM
eat chicken only

guille&tati4life
01-20-2007, 06:40 PM
I am vegetarian and have been for over 20 years. I try not to preach my views to other people - it's a matter of personal choice - but to me, the idea of inflicting fear, pain and death on another living creature just for food when we can be healthy without it, is despicable

I agree :D and i'm also vegitarian

angela
01-20-2007, 06:41 PM
I'm a vegetarian, but not Vegan. I don't eat any meat (includes seafood) and I don't eat things made mostly from eggs. (If it's a cake or biscuit, I'll eat it, but I don't eat omelettes basically. I'll eat eggs if I ever have my own chickens. I do drink milk, but don't eat/drink other dairy products often.

My reasons are:
1. It's flesh. That disgusts me. I havent had Beef/red meats since I was 14, or Chicken since I was 19 (Im 22 now). I'd be biting into my food & think
"hang on;this was alive not so long ago. It was a life. Now it's just 'food'?"

2. Animal Welfare point of view - I've seen the way these animals are treated (in terms on enclosures, cramped conditions etc). You see things like the Cormo Express drama on the news (in Aus), where Kuwait, or some nearby country wouldnt accept our livestock, so heaps of sheep were stranded on a cramped ship, in the middle of the ocean, in searing heat, for weeks on end. The conditions were appalling.

3. I try to think of all things equally. I treat my dog, and other animals, just as I'd treat any reasonable human being - with respect. I mean, I see the
'personality' my dog has, and even my crayfish has cute quirks about it. And I think about an animal (chicken/cow) as also having these characteristics.

Now, to see it from the other point of view, I don't disagree with eating animals. I just disagree with the way we farm them purely for our own pleasure; just to eat, and think nothing of. I can understand however, people that need to hunt for animals to survive. And I'm fine with that. It just saddens me the way we farm these animals, on a special "diet" to make them larger, faster, and become a better meal. check out the aussie animal liberation website for australia for more info if you like. They show the natural growth rates for chickens, compared to some farming standards.

I guess I'm so passionate about this, because I'm studying conservation at uni, but I'll end up working at a place like WWF or IFAW if I play my cards right, and I adore animals; and I don't like knowing of animals in pain :wavey:

I agree, I'm a vegetarian too ;)

artlinkletter
01-20-2007, 08:02 PM
I wish Conan would post again! LOL. I just turned vegetarian this year. It's been tough cause I ate meat everyday before then. Why did I do it? I wanted to challenge myself. Once BBQ season comes along, I'll go back to meat. lol --- Side note: I don't consider people to be vegetarian if they eat fish, or seafood. I had a friend tell me she is vegetarian while scarffing down a tuna sandwich.

LaTenista
01-20-2007, 09:13 PM
:shrug: I eat chicken, turkey, and fish/seafood only. I can't eat mammals because they don't run away from people. If I can pet it, I can't eat it. Just that simple.

Voo de Mar
01-20-2007, 09:18 PM
:shrug: I eat chicken, turkey, and fish/seafood only.

We eat similarly, but I don't eat chicken... My main dish are frying vegatables :)

Becarina
01-20-2007, 09:41 PM
:shrug: I eat chicken, turkey, and fish/seafood only. I can't eat mammals because they don't run away from people. If I can pet it, I can't eat it. Just that simple.

chickens make nice pets :sad:

Washa Koroleva
01-20-2007, 11:16 PM
No

MissPovaFan
01-20-2007, 11:24 PM
I agree :D and i'm also vegitarian

awww me too :hug:

tiptop
01-20-2007, 11:30 PM
I don't like animals, so I don't eat them...:p

Voo de Mar
01-20-2007, 11:31 PM
I don't like animals, so I don't eat them...:p

:lol:

zicofirol
01-21-2007, 04:19 PM
no, animals are part of the food chain, I see no trouble in eating them, humans depended on them for thousands of years to survive, why all of a sudden is it bad to eat meat?

Neely
01-21-2007, 09:24 PM
I respect all vegetarians for their decision, but no, I'm not. I'm eating meat, I myself could not imagine to live completely without it my whole life. But meat is not meat for me, I try to take care of from where I get it from at any time I can (unless I'm invited to friends or go to restaurants) because I think the origin of it is important, especially how the animals are held. That's why I buy a lot of bio products from certified sources without factory farming or laying batteries, same with fruits and vegetables.

Action Jackson
01-21-2007, 09:26 PM
No, it's fine for people to be vegetarians, just don't shove it down my throat and think you are morally superior cause you don't eat meat.

zicofirol
01-21-2007, 10:31 PM
No, it's fine for people to be vegetarians, just don't shove it down my throat and think you are morally superior cause you don't eat meat.

That almost goes hand in hand, they always think they are somehow morally superior because they dont eat meat, please http://www.SmilieCenter.de/smilies/smilies_xxx03.gif (http://www.SmilieCenter.de)

Warrior
01-25-2007, 01:44 AM
No, it's fine for people to be vegetarians, just don't shove it down my throat and think you are morally superior cause you don't eat meat.

It was the other way around with me. People always dissed me for being a vegetarian. But I didn't eat meat because it was supposedly morally right. It's just the thought of eating dead flesh disgusted me.

ZaZaGook
01-27-2007, 10:05 AM
I was vegetarian in the lacto-ovo sense as in I never ate meat but had dairy and eggs as part of my diet. I will return to this diet next month. No particular reason as to why I adhere to this diet.

dkw
01-28-2007, 05:51 AM
I've been vegie for about 6 months now... it's not so much the cruelty to animals, that does bother me a bit but whatever... humans are at the top of the food chain blah, blah blah...

What gets me is that the meat industry is indeed an "industry". They feed their animals all kinds of sh*t to make them grow faster.

And being a vegetarian is just as risky because who knows what goes into our crops. My plan for 2007 is to just stop eating... who needs the hassel or the weight :shrug:

Nunyabeezwax
01-28-2007, 05:51 AM
I have been on a vegetarian diet for a month and I plan to stick with it forever. Unfortunately though right now every time I see an animal I just think "I'm going to eat you!" I'm craving meat left and right.

Action Jackson
01-28-2007, 05:54 AM
That almost goes hand in hand, they always think they are somehow morally superior because they dont eat meat, please http://www.SmilieCenter.de/smilies/smilies_xxx03.gif (http://www.SmilieCenter.de)

Some of them are like that and the ones that are, well I let them have it.

Then again it's Ok to wear leather etc, and drive a car when the environment has been mined to get the materials that make cars, but each to their own.

Kristen
01-28-2007, 11:38 AM
EDIT: When I refer to my avatar, it's my old avatar, with Davey Havok. Vegan rocker from AFI. A Californian punk(?)/emo:rolleyes: band. The following 'quote' is where I stood in 2004. I think it's time for an update. Almost three years later and this is where I stand:

I drink Soy Milk, and avoid dairy products.
I use a non-dairy based, animal-free butter.
I avoid candy with gelatine.
I'm looking into vegan cosmetics. Thanks to the man in my avatar. Yes, that's a man.
I eat vegan chocolate, have cut out Cadbury products and majority of other chocolates (difficult!)
For the most part, I avoid cakes/sweets.
Finally got myself a copy of 'Animal Liberation' to read.

I don't intend to become fully vegan. At least not at this point in time. If I'm going to a restaurant, I don't make life difficult for myself, I just order the regular vego dishes which may contain butter or egg/dairy products. It's the same when I go to someones house, I don't want my dietary needs to be a hassle for other people, but I expect that they will understand my choices as I can understand theirs.

I figure that I can make these small changes, as long as they're available to me. The butter tastes the same, I love the chocolate. Soy Milk goes fine with cereal and Milo.

As for leather, I have better willpower regarding shoes! Actually found a vegan fake leather store in Melbourne [but didn't go, due to tennis commitments ;)], and instead of buying new boots I make the most of what I have, keeping them in good condition, and repairing them when needed.

Time for me to expect some criticism, I imagine. I could respect it coming from vegans, perhaps not so much respect coming from people who hassle me about wearing boots, yet they eat/wear/utilise every animal under the sun. Ooh. That ought to earn me a quick (dim)witted comment I'm sure :D

n.b. That last paragraph was only directed at the people who don't get it. I think most people understand why someone would want to go vego.

I'm a vegetarian, not Vegan. I don't eat any meat (incl seafood) and don't eat things made mostly from eggs. (If it's a cake or biscuit, I'll eat it, but I don't eat omelettes basically. I'll eat eggs if I ever have my own chickens. I do drink milk, but don't eat/drink other dairy products often.

My reasons are:
1. It's flesh. That disgusts me. I havent had Beef/red meats since I was 14, or Chicken since I was 19 (Im 22 now). I'd be biting into my food & think
"hang on;this was alive not so long ago. It was a life. Now it's just 'food'?"

2. Animal Welfare point of view - I've seen the way these animals are treated (in terms on enclosures, cramped conditions etc).

3. I try to think of all things equally. I treat my dog, and other animals, just as I'd treat any reasonable human being - with respect. I mean, I see the
'personality' my dog has, and even my crayfish has cute quirks about it. And I think about an animal (chicken/cow) as also having these characteristics.

Now, to see it from the other point of view, I don't disagree with eating animals. I just disagree with the way we farm them purely for our own pleasure; just to eat, and think nothing of. I can understand however, people that need to hunt for animals to survive. And I'm fine with that. It just saddens me the way we farm these animals, on a special "diet" to make them larger, faster, and become a better meal.

guille&tati4life
01-30-2007, 09:22 AM
EDIT: When I refer to my avatar, it's my old avatar, with Davey Havok. Vegan rocker from AFI. A Californian punk(?)/emo:rolleyes: band. The following 'quote' is where I stood in 2004. I think it's time for an update. Almost three years later and this is where I stand:

I drink Soy Milk, and avoid dairy products.
I use a non-dairy based, animal-free butter.
I avoid candy with gelatine.
I'm looking into vegan cosmetics. Thanks to the man in my avatar. Yes, that's a man.
I eat vegan chocolate, have cut out Cadbury products and majority of other chocolates (difficult!)
For the most part, I avoid cakes/sweets.
Finally got myself a copy of 'Animal Liberation' to read.

I don't intend to become fully vegan. At least not at this point in time. If I'm going to a restaurant, I don't make life difficult for myself, I just order the regular vego dishes which may contain butter or egg/dairy products. It's the same when I go to someones house, I don't want my dietary needs to be a hassle for other people, but I expect that they will understand my choices as I can understand theirs.

I figure that I can make these small changes, as long as they're available to me. The butter tastes the same, I love the chocolate. Soy Milk goes fine with cereal and Milo.

As for leather, I have better willpower regarding shoes! Actually found a vegan fake leather store in Melbourne [but didn't go, due to tennis commitments ;)], and instead of buying new boots I make the most of what I have, keeping them in good condition, and repairing them when needed.

Time for me to expect some criticism, I imagine. I could respect it coming from vegans, perhaps not so much respect coming from people who hassle me about wearing boots, yet they eat/wear/utilise every animal under the sun. Ooh. That ought to earn me a quick (dim)witted comment I'm sure :D

n.b. That last paragraph was only directed at the people who don't get it. I think most people understand why someone would want to go vego.

:bigclap:
That must take a hell of a lot of will power Kristen. Like i said before, i'm just a vegitarian but i really respect what you're doing due to your beliefs as it must be very hard.

I also avoid gelatine though it seems to be in everything nice :sad:

Suzi
01-30-2007, 09:38 AM
im not a vegetarian but i do lurve my veggies! looo beancurd as well (although didnt relised beancurd and tofu were the same when i was younger!!)

joeb_uk
02-07-2007, 03:17 PM
Nope, a meal without meat is not worth eating. I love meat and fish :drool:

Federer&Hingis
02-08-2007, 03:18 AM
I don't eat meat but eat egg and milk.

Mistaflava
02-08-2007, 03:21 AM
I didn't read a single post in this thread but I sure no guys posted as being vegeterians...that's just weird.

NyGeL
02-08-2007, 04:16 AM
I used to be "meetarian" (didn't used to eat vegetals).

now I'm normal.

Carito_90
02-08-2007, 04:17 AM
I used to be "meetarian" (didn't used to eat vegetals).

now I'm normal.

Argie, I wouldn't expect anything else. :lol:

Morgan Z
02-08-2007, 01:31 PM
I'm a vegetarian and don't use leather and other such things either.


And meat isn't healthy. :(

Jogy
02-11-2007, 02:48 PM
Sure I am eating meat and I openly admit this and have no bad feeling about it.

I think that 90% of animals that are killed by human are killed less brutally and with less suffering than the real nature kills them. Look at nature how brutal it can be. A tiger is after a zebra and it takes minutes until it is dead. First he scratches the zebra hard, then after more chasing he maybe bites it into the leg or the leg off and zebra is stumbling around some more. Then he bites some flesh out or bites it into the throat until it finally is bleeding out. And in human case, human is superiour to animals and they are lower in food chain and humans would not have survived without animal products in evolution.


And always much hypocrisy always in this topic.
Example: there are people who say they love animals so much and they want to protect them and such stuff blablabla... nice and okay! BUT some have at home a pet who is living in an artificial house and not outside in nature. Like people who have a cat or a snake or a bird or so. The wild cat in nature is a animal who is running 100's of km every day outside in nature and who likes to move. The bird wants to fly, a snake is keeped in a little glass house where it only has very little room. Pathetic for the animal, not how the nature made them.

And what do they give their pets to eat? Yes, the snake is getting living mouses or rats (and kills them brutal down her throat or bites them with poison), the cat is getting some food from the supermarket who is coming from animals, or do you think you can feed a cat by only vegetarian food? It would be not apropriate for her species at all because it is a meat eater from nature.

guille&tati4life
02-11-2007, 03:14 PM
Sure I am eating meat and I openly admit this and have no bad feeling about it.

I think that 90% of animals that are killed by human are killed less brutally and with less suffering than the real nature kills them. Look at nature how brutal it can be. A tiger is after a zebra and it takes minutes until it is dead. First he scratches the zebra hard, then after more chasing he maybe bites it into the leg or the leg off and zebra is stumbling around some more. Then he bites some flesh out or bites it into the throat until it finally is bleeding out. And in human case, human is superiour to animals and they are lower in food chain and humans would not have survived without animal products in evolution.


And always much hypocrisy always in this topic.
Example: there are people who say they love animals so much and they want to protect them and such stuff blablabla... nice and okay! BUT some have at home a pet who is living in an artificial house and not outside in nature. Like people who have a cat or a snake or a bird or so. The wild cat in nature is a animal who is running 100's of km every day outside in nature and who likes to move. The bird wants to fly, a snake is keeped in a little glass house where it only has very little room. Pathetic for the animal, not how the nature made them.

And what do they give their pets to eat? Yes, the snake is getting living mouses or rats (and kills them brutal down her throat or bites them with poison), the cat is getting some food from the supermarket who is coming from animals, or do you think you can feed a cat by only vegetarian food? It would be not apropriate for her species at all because it is a meat eater from nature.

Well, often the natural death of humans is painful too. For example, dying from cancer can be very slow and painful. Would you then find it acceptable for humans to be killed in a humane way to counter-act the pain they might one day feel from natural death? I very much doubt it. I don't think that arguing that these animals are killed in a humane way is a good argument. The point is should they be killed at all.

joeb_uk
02-14-2007, 06:01 PM
Sure I am eating meat and I openly admit this and have no bad feeling about it.

I think that 90% of animals that are killed by human are killed less brutally and with less suffering than the real nature kills them. Look at nature how brutal it can be. A tiger is after a zebra and it takes minutes until it is dead. First he scratches the zebra hard, then after more chasing he maybe bites it into the leg or the leg off and zebra is stumbling around some more. Then he bites some flesh out or bites it into the throat until it finally is bleeding out. And in human case, human is superiour to animals and they are lower in food chain and humans would not have survived without animal products in evolution.


And always much hypocrisy always in this topic.
Example: there are people who say they love animals so much and they want to protect them and such stuff blablabla... nice and okay! BUT some have at home a pet who is living in an artificial house and not outside in nature. Like people who have a cat or a snake or a bird or so. The wild cat in nature is a animal who is running 100's of km every day outside in nature and who likes to move. The bird wants to fly, a snake is keeped in a little glass house where it only has very little room. Pathetic for the animal, not how the nature made them.

And what do they give their pets to eat? Yes, the snake is getting living mouses or rats (and kills them brutal down her throat or bites them with poison), the cat is getting some food from the supermarket who is coming from animals, or do you think you can feed a cat by only vegetarian food? It would be not apropriate for her species at all because it is a meat eater from nature.

Yes I understand what you are saying Jogy, there are a few Veges in this thread who always boast about the way they treat their pets like babies and little kids. I understand exactly what you are talking about, and thought the same. It would also be interesting to see how many of them feed their pets food which contains animal contents, I imagine it happens quite a lot.

celia
02-14-2007, 06:45 PM
i wear leather, i wear fur, and i eat raw fish. bad girl.

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 09:32 PM
Well, often the natural death of humans is painful too. For example, dying from cancer can be very slow and painful. Would you then find it acceptable for humans to be killed in a humane way to counter-act the pain they might one day feel from natural death? I very much doubt it. I don't think that arguing that these animals are killed in a humane way is a good argument. The point is should they be killed at all.

Yes, why are people so self righteous about killing animals to eat. we've been doing it forever, if you believe in the bible, it's a O.K there and as long as you don't waist the meat what is the problem. Honeslty do you think that if people stop eating meat that animals would stop eating each other. Hello people we are all animals yes even people. It's called the food chain, why is everyone so upset that we are at the top of that chain. I'd like to see some people who believe it's wrong to kill animals for food, go to the wild and try to convince a Lion he should convert to vegetarianism. what I'm saying is it's no different. it's what animals do.

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 09:36 PM
Yeah and I don't agree with keeping animals locked up in cages and zoo's it's just so wrong. Why do people interfere with animals so much. I can so understand why animals don't like humans, not only do we invade their living space, but we pick with them to find out how they live, why they eat and hunt like they do, to capture them so we can view them in their natural habitat which isn't natural at all. that's why I got so much joy out of the show when animals attack, it's so funny to see animals fighting back. get out of their face. shit if some one was always in my ass trying to figure out every little aspect of my existence I'd be ready to attack myself.

MisterQ
02-14-2007, 09:39 PM
Yes, why are people so self righteous about killing animals to eat. we've been doing it forever, if you believe in the bible, it's a O.K there and as long as you don't waist the meat what is the problem. Honeslty do you think that if people stop eating meat that animals would stop eating each other. Hello people we are all animals yes even people. It's called the food chain, why is everyone so upset that we are at the top of that chain. I'd like to see some people who believe it's wrong to kill animals for food, go to the wild and try to convince a Lion he should convert to vegetarianism. what I'm saying is it's no different. it's what animals do.

One could argue that with our technological advances, environmental impact and massive population explosion, we have moved beyond a point where it matters what is "natural". Many who argue for vegetarianism do so because they feel the world would function better ecologically, economically and developmentally if more people ate this way. I have to agree with that assessment, even though I am not vegetarian myself.

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 09:45 PM
O.k you have to explain that logic to me, how does the way we eat have anything to do with ecologically, economically and developmental advancement?

MisterQ
02-14-2007, 10:00 PM
O.k you have to explain that logic to me, how does the way we eat have anything to do with ecologically, economically and developmental advancement?

:) Can't go into it in detail right now, and as such I risk oversimplifying things... but a few issues include:

It takes a large quantity of grain to raise livestock, and only part of those animals are eventually used as meat. The amount of grain that goes into producing a small steak is striking. It's not a particularly efficient energy transfer as you move up the food chain. In some impoverished regions around the world, grain is being used by ranchers to produce meat when it could be going directly to starving people. In some situations the land could be better used for growing significant quantities of crops.

Also, ranching uses large quantities of land for relatively little production. The clear-cut destruction of much of the Amazon rainforest is linked to cattle farming.

Animals at the top of the food chain are usually far less numerous than those below when nature runs its course. With our current population, we are the most numerous large mammal on the planet. It makes sense that we might need to change some of our habits to sustain this.

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 10:03 PM
the only problem I see with that logic is, some people not saying you but a lot of people actually believe that there is a food sortage in the world becaue they are so many starving people, that has nothing to do with why people are starving. they is more than enough food to go around, it's just not getting around for various reason won't go into that. but it's there.

guille&tati4life
02-15-2007, 12:48 PM
Yes, why are people so self righteous about killing animals to eat. we've been doing it forever, if you believe in the bible, it's a O.K there and as long as you don't waist the meat what is the problem. Honeslty do you think that if people stop eating meat that animals would stop eating each other. Hello people we are all animals yes even people. It's called the food chain, why is everyone so upset that we are at the top of that chain. I'd like to see some people who believe it's wrong to kill animals for food, go to the wild and try to convince a Lion he should convert to vegetarianism. what I'm saying is it's no different. it's what animals do.

1) I don't believe in the bible, if i did i'd also hate gays :rolleyes:
2) Some animals kill other animals of the same species, does that mean as it's only natural, we should be allowed to do it too?
3) So if a new mutant race who were superior in strength and intelligence came along, you would find it acceptable for them to eat humans? I mean, it's called the food chain :rolleyes:. I realise it's an unlikely hypothetical scenario, but morally you couldn't see a problem with it going by your argument.
4) I doubt we could convince many animals to give food to starving people, i doubt we could convince many animals to not steal things from other animals, i doubt we could convince animals to discuss political and moral issues at all, like torture. What exactly is your point in saying well, the animals can't be convinced to stop killing each other so we should act as they do? You are implying that we should act as animals act. Well, sorry, i don't think i can just stop holding many of my moral beliefs I also think i'd find it hard to ignore many issues that i feel passionately about that an animal could not fathom. Humans shouldn't do as animals do in all cicumstances. Especially on ethical questions.

Jogy
02-19-2007, 10:40 AM
Well, often the natural death of humans is painful too. For example, dying from cancer can be very slow and painful. Would you then find it acceptable for humans to be killed in a humane way to counter-act the pain they might one day feel from natural death? I very much doubt it.
If you are asking me if I think that doctors should be allowed to give a medical suicide to somebody who wants to die faster in humane way than dying of cancer and painful destruction of the cells, YES!

In Netherlands you are having very advanced laws of that type already that allow it for people to die if they want and suffer unhealable pain and illness. This is a very good law and I am for it totally.


Yes I understand what you are saying Jogy, there are a few Veges in this thread who always boast about the way they treat their pets like babies and little kids. I understand exactly what you are talking about, and thought the same. It would also be interesting to see how many of them feed their pets food which contains animal contents, I imagine it happens quite a lot.
Yes that is very wrong if people are handling their pets un such unnatural way. I see some dogs or cats from people sometimes that are taken to the pet coiffeur, that get parfumed and hair spray, lot of other things like color ribbons in the fur and so. Very artificial way for an animal. And when it is keeped in the city, with no garden or only very little garden, it is only bored and lying around whole day, getting fat. Often it is high society people who do that to their pets and they are idiots if they think this is good or natural for the animal.

Action Jackson
02-19-2007, 10:48 AM
Well, often the natural death of humans is painful too. For example, dying from cancer can be very slow and painful. Would you then find it acceptable for humans to be killed in a humane way to counter-act the pain they might one day feel from natural death? I very much doubt it. I don't think that arguing that these animals are killed in a humane way is a good argument. The point is should they be killed at all.

For terminally ill people I support euthanasia. I mean I have seen it with my own eyes someone suffering so much, that they wanted to die and they had no hope of having any quality of life.

Farming and fishing practices have to improve for a start. Bascially this why fish farming exists cause they took too many fish before it could regrow to acceptable levels. Even with fish farming a lot of the fish are fed with things you wouldn't eat normally.

But if people want to be veggos, that is their choice.

Jogy
02-19-2007, 11:06 AM
very true what you say, GeorgeWHitler. Like I wanted to say.
When somebody can make decision with conscious to die and has no hope anymore, I support it that they are given something to end their suffer and sleep in with peace.

Action Jackson
02-19-2007, 11:15 AM
It should never be an easy option, but I know in Switzerland it was officially illegal, but in Zürich there were a few doctors who would give the lethal injection and it's not easy for the families either to say hey switch off the machine that's keeping their family member alive.

guille&tati4life
02-19-2007, 12:48 PM
If you are asking me if I think that doctors should be allowed to give a medical suicide to somebody who wants to die faster in humane way than dying of cancer and painful destruction of the cells, YES!

In Netherlands you are having very advanced laws of that type already that allow it for people to die if they want and suffer unhealable pain and illness. This is a very good law and I am for it totally.



For terminally ill people I support euthanasia. I mean I have seen it with my own eyes someone suffering so much, that they wanted to die and they had no hope of having any quality of life.

You both took my point the wrong way, probably as i was not clear enough :o . I too support euthanasia in some cases. The argument i was making was in response to Jogy's post...
I think that 90% of animals that are killed by human are killed less brutally and with less suffering than the real nature kills them. Look at nature how brutal it can be. A tiger is after a zebra and it takes minutes until it is dead. First he scratches the zebra hard, then after more chasing he maybe bites it into the leg or the leg off and zebra is stumbling around some more. Then he bites some flesh out or bites it into the throat until it finally is bleeding out. And in human case, human is superiour to animals and they are lower in food chain and humans would not have survived without animal products in evolution.

This seemed to suggest killing animals was less cruel than leaving them to die naturally as a natural death would be more painful. It seemed to me to be stating that killing animals is saving them from a more painful death which might occur years later. What i meant by my response was that there is always a chance that humans (like the animals Jogy talks of) will die a horrible death but it would not be right to kill them because of it just in the off-chance that such a death will take place.

sondraj06
02-19-2007, 04:36 PM
1) I don't believe in the bible, if i did i'd also hate gays :rolleyes:
2) Some animals kill other animals of the same species, does that mean as it's only natural, we should be allowed to do it too?
3) So if a new mutant race who were superior in strength and intelligence came along, you would find it acceptable for them to eat humans? I mean, it's called the food chain :rolleyes:. I realise it's an unlikely hypothetical scenario, but morally you couldn't see a problem with it going by your argument.
4) I doubt we could convince many animals to give food to starving people, i doubt we could convince many animals to not steal things from other animals, i doubt we could convince animals to discuss political and moral issues at all, like torture. What exactly is your point in saying well, the animals can't be convinced to stop killing each other so we should act as they do? You are implying that we should act as animals act. Well, sorry, i don't think i can just stop holding many of my moral beliefs I also think i'd find it hard to ignore many issues that i feel passionately about that an animal could not fathom. Humans shouldn't do as animals do in all cicumstances. Especially on ethical questions.

I'm ready to call you an idiot but i'm refraining, this isn't about a new mutant race, watch x-man much maybe. This is about reality and reality is that animals eat meat it is natural whether you want to believe that or not. and eating meat is not the same as killing some one and if you feel that way than you should remain a vegie, that's your call. And if it's soooo wrong to eat meat and do the natural thing than we should lock up every animal that you feel so strong in protecting against the big bad human race, my point was that even if we stop eating meat, do you think you'll wake up one day and animals are going to stop eating each other, what exactly is the argument here, that's it's just wrong or that we want to save ever animal life by not contributing to their deaths for food. because you're a ware that they are still going to be apart of some animals food chain right. And if you did read the bible you'd know it doesn't say a damn thing about hating gays.

guille&tati4life
02-19-2007, 04:52 PM
I'm ready to call you an idiot but i'm refraining, this isn't about a new mutant race, watch x-man much maybe. This is about reality and reality is that animals eat meat it is natural whether you want to believe that or not. and eating meat is not the same as killing some one and if you feel that way than you should remain a vegie, that's your call. And if it's soooo wrong to eat meat and do the natural thing than we should lock up every animal that you feel so strong in protecting against the big bad human race, my point was that even if we stop eating meat, do you think you'll wake up one day and animals are going to stop eating each other, what exactly is the argument here, that's it's just wrong or that we want to save ever animal life by not contributing to their deaths for food. because you're a ware that they are still going to be apart of some animals food chain right. And if you did read the bible you'd know it doesn't say a damn thing about hating gays.

I did point out that it had nothing to do with a mutant race. The hypothetical point stands. If if if, if it happened, though it won't, you could see no moral problem with it if your argument is that we're at the top of the food chain. Just as we're the most powerful beings on earth does not mean we can do whatever we want to other creatures.

So what that animals eat meat? What does that matter? Yes, the argument is that it's wrong to kill animals. Even better if animals live longer because of it.

My comment on the bible was wrong. Should have thought it through more. I disagree with the bible on certain issues and certainly will not decide what is right and wrong by what is said and done in the bible.

sondraj06
02-19-2007, 04:58 PM
I did point out that it had nothing to do with a mutant race. The hypothetical point stands. If if if, if it happened, though it won't, you could see no moral problem with it if your argument is that we're at the top of the food chain. Just as we're the most powerful beings on earth does not mean we can do whatever we want to other creatures.

So what that animals eat meat? What does that matter? Yes, the argument is that it's wrong to kill animals. Even better if animals live longer because of it.

My comment on the bible was wrong. Should have thought it through more. I disagree with the bible on certain issues and certainly will not decide what is right and wrong by what is said and done in the bible.

O.K so you believe eating animals is wrong no one is going to change you mind about it. I'm not inclined to believe that is isn't right. people and animals have been eating each other for a long time before humans intervened, I don't know why now people think that they need to. If animals stop eating each other all of a sudden it would throw the environment way off. That is the reason things are balanced, if it didn't work it would not have work as long as it has. And is it just wrong for humans to eat animals or anything to eat animals, because if it is then animals should stop too right. And if naturally there were some one or thing higher on the food chain, like say vampires then yes, we would just have to watch our backs. and humans weren't always on the top of the food chain t-rex anyone. I'm sure you couldn't convince dinosaurs that it was wrong to chew on us. it's the way the world works and I don't have a problem with it.

guille&tati4life
02-19-2007, 05:11 PM
O.K so you believe eating animals is wrong no one is going to change you mind about it. I'm not inclined to believe that is isn't right. people and animals have been eating each other for a long time before humans intervened, I don't know why now people think that they need to. If animals stop eating each other all of a sudden it would throw the environment way off. That is the reason things are balanced, if it didn't work it would not have work as long as it has. And is it just wrong for humans to eat animals or anything to eat animals, because if it is then animals should stop too right. And if naturally there were some one or thing higher on the food chain, like say vampires then yes, we would just have to watch our backs. and humans weren't always on the top of the food chain t-rex anyone. I'm sure you couldn't convince dinosaurs that it was wrong to chew on us. it's the way the world works and I don't have a problem with it.

It depends what you mean by wrong. I don't think that it's unnatural for humans to eat animals. I just think that it is something that is wrong morally. Animals do not have the capacity to make moral decisions. If every creature stopped eating meat then indeed, there would be many problems, i can't argue with that.

zicofirol
02-19-2007, 05:11 PM
You both took my point the wrong way, probably as i was not clear enough :o . I too support euthanasia in some cases. The argument i was making was in response to Jogy's post...


This response is more for everyone that was talking about euthinasia, not just you inparticular but you where the last person discussing this so im quoting you...

Why support Euthanasia in some cases? do you think people have an obligation to society to live? life is a right not an obligation if anyone wants to kill themselves, for x reason then they should be able to. Before you jump to conclusion and respond with the expected response of "well teenagers might want to kill themselves" or "if someone is mentally ill or depressed then they might be making that decision under duress etc. "
First since it would be law you would have clinics and doctors preforming this, and I would imagine most doctors and clinics would put someone to sleep after taking many things into consideration, and of course it would not be legal to kill teenagers, I would also consider putting strict restrictions on parents who are not suffering from any illnesses or physical impediments that might want to kill themselves, because once they do then society must carry the burden of their children, and that is not fair, aside from that, any other reasons should be allowed.

This issue is a prime example of the horrible line of thinking in todays world(actually its been prevalent throughout history but we are in teh 21st centruy and people still think like that), where people think that they own other people, or society/government owns a person, bs, if someone has decided he can no longer get any value from life then let them kill themselves.

AgassiDomination
02-19-2007, 05:16 PM
O.K so you believe eating animals is wrong no one is going to change you mind about it. I'm not inclined to believe that is isn't right. people and animals have been eating each other for a long time before humans intervened, I don't know why now people think that they need to. If animals stop eating each other all of a sudden it would throw the environment way off. That is the reason things are balanced, if it didn't work it would not have work as long as it has. And is it just wrong for humans to eat animals or anything to eat animals, because if it is then animals should stop too right. And if naturally there were some one or thing higher on the food chain, like say vampires then yes, we would just have to watch our backs. and humans weren't always on the top of the food chain t-rex anyone. I'm sure you couldn't convince dinosaurs that it was wrong to chew on us. it's the way the world works and I don't have a problem with it.
As much as I enjoy your responses, I'd like to point out we weren't around when dinosaurs were... it was bothering me... As you were!

sondraj06
02-19-2007, 05:18 PM
As much as I enjoy your responses, I'd like to point out we weren't around when dinosaurs were... it was bothering me... As you were!

Are you sure I coulnd't sworn we were, but I'm no paleontologist. In fact it's my least favorite time of history, maybe I watch too many cave man movies:wavey:

guille&tati4life
02-19-2007, 05:18 PM
This response is more for everyone that was talking about euthinasia, not just you inparticular but you where the last person discussing this so im quoting you...

Why support Euthanasia in some cases? do you think people have an obligation to society to live? life is a right not an obligation if anyone wants to kill themselves, for x reason then they should be able to. Before you jump to conclusion and respond with the expected response of "well teenagers might want to kill themselves" or "if someone is mentally ill or depressed then they might be making that decision under duress etc. "
First since it would be law you would have clinics and doctors preforming this, and I would imagine most doctors and clinics would put someone to sleep after taking many things into consideration, and of course it would not be legal to kill teenagers, I would also consider putting strict restrictions on parents who are not suffering from any illnesses or physical impediments that might want to kill themselves, because once they do then society must carry the burden of their children, and that is not fair, aside from that, any other reasons should be allowed.

This issue is a prime example of the horrible line of thinking in todays world(actually its been prevalent throughout history but we are in teh 21st centruy and people still think like that), where people think that they own other people, or society/government owns a person, bs, if someone has decided he can no longer get any value from life then let them kill themselves.

:lol: We always have to step around each other carefully.

I agree, if people decide to die then that is acceptable. But there could be an example of euthanasia where the family decides. Perhaps there is a very ill person who cannot communicate and the family want to euthanise the person. That is the type of case where i may see (depending on circumstances) euthanasia as wrong.

AgassiDomination
02-19-2007, 05:23 PM
I think its completely okay to eat meat. Whats the harm?

Nunyabeezwax
02-21-2007, 06:46 AM
Thank goodness beer is vegetarian.

Kristen
02-21-2007, 12:28 PM
FFS. How many of the meat eaters in this thread feed their pets meat? I imagine the majority. Not eating meat is a personal choice, and for me it would be pathetic (unless I was a hardcore vegan) to only feed my pets rice and vegetables. It's not a double standard, it's something I do for myself which should not, and will not affect other people/pets who choose to live differently to me, or cannot speak otherwise. In fact I am often telling people it's a bad move to go vego. For me it was, but it really makes life difficult at times. I tend not to tell them why, because they end up making jokes about how they're vego because what they just ate, only ate grass and grain. :rolls:

Now the part where I'm on my apparent high-horse and belittling other people who are being d!psh!ts about this...what have you done today to minimise suffering? Oh, sorry. You don't care so much. Animals are lesser creatures, undeserving of respect or humane treatment. Yes, I wear leather boots I have owned for years. I have leather work boots. I sometimes eat regular cheese, and OMG I have woolen products. What do you do?

A major reason why I don't eat meat, is because of the treatment they receive prior to death. If you'd like to understand (or find reasons to counter-attack) take a look here: http://www.vegsoc.org.au/abattoir.asp at an australian abattoir. Or, where we send our sheep to:
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/default2.asp?idL1=1272&idL2=1865&idL3=1917 You should check it out. It's pretty gory. If you like horror films then it'll be cool to see the cattle heads hanging from hooks...skin removed, eyes hanging out their sockets and tongue + gizzards dangling below. It's easier to eat meat when you don't see how it makes its way to your plate.

My dog is a carnivore. My fish is an omnivore. I am not going to deprive them of what they have been [physically] designed to eat, no matter how much I would like to. Humans dont have stomachs capable of breaking down meats as well as carnivores do. Check out our teeth. They're designed for grinding, not ripping flesh apart. We're slow, hardly predators even though we're on top of that food chain.

That thing you saw in the supermarket.
http://www.vegsoc.org.au/abattoir/full_size/DSC_4365.jpg
Please do feel free to bad rep or report me. I really don't care. I'm over people calling vegetarians 'freaks' when they don't give a f*ck about trying to understand where people are coming from, and that we don't all sit around wearing fluoro colours, singing koombayah, smoking dope, and talking about how we are so much cooler than almost everyone else in the world because we love animals, man. Different people, different reasons. Thanks so much for bringing out my inner-asshole, MTF.

If you need something else to attack me for, ask my views on euthanasia, homosexuality, religion and abortion. I'm only against one. :yeah:

sondraj06
02-21-2007, 07:21 PM
^ I get that people have problem with the way animals are treated thats fine. And it's fine to not want to eat meat because of it or any other reason, to each it's own. But I don't like it when people try to make other people feel bad about eating meat, it's natural. So if people don't like the way animals are treated before they are chopped up do something in particular that will protest that, I don't personally think refraining from eating meat really does anyting, I mean who knows that you're not eating meat, how does that truly help the animals, join peta or somethig.

theMEESH
02-21-2007, 10:30 PM
It's easier to eat meat when you don't see how it makes its way to your plate.



seen it. still eat it. my parents were farmers back in the philppines. complete with goats and pigs and whatnot.

when we lived in Panorama City, we had a pet chicken. We loved our pet chicken. One day, Mom decided to kill our pet chicken. And we had pet chicken for dinner. I'm pretty sure I ate it, and I bet it was good.

sondraj06
02-21-2007, 10:38 PM
seen it. still eat it. my parents were farmers back in the philppines. complete with goats and pigs and whatnot.

when we lived in Panorama City, we had a pet chicken. We loved our pet chicken. One day, Mom decided to kill our pet chicken. And we had pet chicken for dinner. I'm pretty sure I ate it, and I bet it was good.

:haha::dance::haha::haha::lick: Oh hell naw, that should be a mad t.v skit:bowdown::bowdown::dance:

Sjengster
02-22-2007, 04:13 AM
Hmm.... I imagine if I were to see animals being killed that are destined for the dinner plate it would affect me temporarily, but it would subsequently become a case of out of sight, out of mind. Reducing the suffering of animals that are slaughtered is one of those nice ideals that it's very easy to say you're in favour of, but not something you're going to do much about, or indeed care unless it's drawn to your attention. I say "you're" in the sense of "one", not referring to anybody specific.

That said, the treatment of slaughtered animals is to me the only legitimate objection one could possibly have to eating meat. Everything consumes everything else eventually, the soil will consume us in the end. I should add that I've never been a terrific animal lover, they're no substitute for human companionship and I'll always view them as inferior to humans (that doesn't mean they deserve to die in pain and fear, mind you). In the whole cat vs dog debate that has raged throughout Western society for decades, I can happily adopt a neutral standpoint and say that I've had bad experiences with both.

guille&tati4life
02-22-2007, 12:31 PM
Hmm.... I imagine if I were to see animals being killed that are destined for the dinner plate it would affect me temporarily, but it would subsequently become a case of out of sight, out of mind. Reducing the suffering of animals that are slaughtered is one of those nice ideals that it's very easy to say you're in favour of, but not something you're going to do much about, or indeed care unless it's drawn to your attention. I say "you're" in the sense of "one", not referring to anybody specific.

That said, the treatment of slaughtered animals is to me the only legitimate objection one could possibly have to eating meat. Everything consumes everything else eventually, the soil will consume us in the end. I should add that I've never been a terrific animal lover, they're no substitute for human companionship and I'll always view them as inferior to humans (that doesn't mean they deserve to die in pain and fear, mind you). In the whole cat vs dog debate that has raged throughout Western society for decades, I can happily adopt a neutral standpoint and say that I've had bad experiences with both.

Considering that torture is thought of as worse than murder (by most people anyway), why do some people have a problem with the way animals are treated before they are killed but not when they are killed? :confused: I'm not having a go, i just wonder what the rationale is

^ I get that people have problem with the way animals are treated thats fine. And it's fine to not want to eat meat because of it or any other reason, to each it's own. But I don't like it when people try to make other people feel bad about eating meat, it's natural. So if people don't like the way animals are treated before they are chopped up do something in particular that will protest that, I don't personally think refraining from eating meat really does anyting, I mean who knows that you're not eating meat, how does that truly help the animals, join peta or somethig.

The less meat eaten the less animals slaughtered :shrug:

sondraj06
02-22-2007, 03:08 PM
Considering that torture is thought of as worse than murder (by most people anyway), why do some people have a problem with the way animals are treated before they are killed but not when they are killed? :confused: I'm not having a go, i just wonder what the rationale is



The less meat eaten the less animals slaughtered :shrug:

Really do you believe that.

guille&tati4life
02-22-2007, 03:15 PM
Really do you believe that.

Hopefully a very very slight amount less, yeah. If i'm not buying it there's slightly less demand :unsure: but no, i'm sure it makes very little difference to the industry but it's the best i can do

Sjengster
02-22-2007, 03:56 PM
Considering that torture is thought of as worse than murder (by most people anyway), why do some people have a problem with the way animals are treated before they are killed but not when they are killed? :confused: I'm not having a go, i just wonder what the rationale is

Sorry, is that what I suggested? :confused: When I said treatment of animals, I meant before and when they are killed.

On a side note: do vegetarians not consider plants to be living things as well? Not flesh, no, but they're things that have an existence of their own out in the natural world and then end up digested in somebody's stomach.

guille&tati4life
02-22-2007, 04:03 PM
Sorry, is that what I suggested? :confused: When I said treatment of animals, I meant before and when they are killed.

On a side note: do vegetarians not consider plants to be living things as well? Not flesh, no, but they're things that have an existence of their own out in the natural world and then end up digested in somebody's stomach.

I just meant if people can accept the fact that they will be killed, why do they care how they are treated before being killed.

For me, it is because they don't have minds. Unless science is very seriously flawed :rolls:. They can't feel pain and can't enjoy life.

aulus
02-22-2007, 10:28 PM
the argument that eating meat is natural is a very bad one.
plenty of natural things are bad. murder is natural. **** is natural. racism is natural. bullying is natural. cannibalism is natural. etc, etc.
what kind of person gets his or her morality from looking to nature??

the argument that eating meat has been done forever and it wasn't considered immoral is a very bad one, too.
could have said the same thing about countless horrible things at different points in history, like slavery or subjugation of women.

the argument that animals would suffer anyway is also very bad. other humans suffer anyway, too. so it doesn't matter how they're treated here? should beating homeless ppl be allowed? they are suffering anyway.
should animal cruelty laws be trashed? animals will suffer anyway.

eventually, i think meat will just be grown from cells in factories. human organs are already able to be grown in labs.

sondraj06
02-22-2007, 10:50 PM
the argument that eating meat is natural is a very bad one.
plenty of natural things are bad. murder is natural. **** is natural. racism is natural. bullying is natural. cannibalism is natural. etc, etc.
what kind of person gets his or her morality from looking to nature??

the argument that eating meat has been done forever and it wasn't considered immoral is a very bad one, too.
could have said the same thing about countless horrible things at different points in history, like slavery or subjugation of women.

the argument that animals would suffer anyway is also very bad. other humans suffer anyway, too. so it doesn't matter how they're treated here? should beating homeless ppl be allowed? they are suffering anyway.
should animal cruelty laws be trashed? animals will suffer anyway.

eventually, i think meat will just be grown from cells in factories. human organs are already able to be grown in labs.


For real **** and bullying is natural, I got that far and had to post, I don't ever want to live in the same neighborhood as you. And once again it is natural, if it weren't are bodies wouldn't be able to digest it, we would have serious negative effects from it, but in fact we don't we get certain nutrients from it and people who don't have to play substitute, your body is telling you it's natural. Whether you want to believe it or not.

Sjengster
02-22-2007, 11:27 PM
I just meant if people can accept the fact that they will be killed, why do they care how they are treated before being killed.

For me, it is because they don't have minds. Unless science is very seriously flawed :rolls:. They can't feel pain and can't enjoy life.

Well, killing them serves a purpose, treating them brutally beforehand doesn't really serve any purpose, except as a lazy short-cut. I believe that such animals do exist to be consumed by human beings, but the condemned deserve decent treatment in their final hours, let's put it that way.

Sjengster
02-22-2007, 11:36 PM
the argument that eating meat is natural is a very bad one.
plenty of natural things are bad. murder is natural. **** is natural. racism is natural. bullying is natural. cannibalism is natural. etc, etc.
what kind of person gets his or her morality from looking to nature??

the argument that eating meat has been done forever and it wasn't considered immoral is a very bad one, too.
could have said the same thing about countless horrible things at different points in history, like slavery or subjugation of women.

the argument that animals would suffer anyway is also very bad. other humans suffer anyway, too. so it doesn't matter how they're treated here? should beating homeless ppl be allowed? they are suffering anyway.
should animal cruelty laws be trashed? animals will suffer anyway.

eventually, i think meat will just be grown from cells in factories. human organs are already able to be grown in labs.

Those things apply to humans, not animals, and you'll never be able to convince me that an animal has exactly the same rights as a human being. Some yes, but not all.

If they can produce meat that looks and tastes exactly the same as it does now using that method, I'm all for it. The end result is what counts, it's not like we meat-eaters sit at our dinner tables chuckling and thinking, "Woo-hoo, another animal bites the dust!"

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 12:00 AM
it's not like we meat-eaters sit at our dinner tables chuckling and thinking, "Woo-hoo, another animal bites the dust!"

Well, I do, is that bad. woo-hoo another animal bites the dust :)

Sjengster
02-23-2007, 12:15 AM
To each their own, although I won't be recommending you as a spokesperson for the animal rights lobby any time soon.

guille&tati4life
02-23-2007, 11:39 AM
Well, killing them serves a purpose, treating them brutally beforehand doesn't really serve any purpose, except as a lazy short-cut. I believe that such animals do exist to be consumed by human beings, but the condemned deserve decent treatment in their final hours, let's put it that way.

Thanks, just wondered. Spot on :)

aulus
02-23-2007, 11:41 AM
For real **** and bullying is natural, I got that far and had to post, I don't ever want to live in the same neighborhood as you. And once again it is natural, if it weren't are bodies wouldn't be able to digest it, we would have serious negative effects from it, but in fact we don't we get certain nutrients from it and people who don't have to play substitute, your body is telling you it's natural. Whether you want to believe it or not.

things such as murder and **** and violence are natural and found in all known cultures in history. and in your neighborhood, too. natural and moral are very different.

eating meat is natural. i don't see how that is relevant to a moral debate.

so since we are able to digest human flesh, and get no harm from it, we should eat it? we are able to digest hair also. should we eat hair?

ppl's bodies also tell them to use violence against others, to steal, to kill, to ****, to lie, etc, etc. doesn't mean it's good.

aulus
02-23-2007, 11:55 AM
Those things apply to humans, not animals, and you'll never be able to convince me that an animal has exactly the same rights as a human being. Some yes, but not all.

my point is that in the past those things didn't apply to all humans. and it was impossible to convince most ppl they should apply to all humans.

similar progression has occurred with animals. bearbaiting was banned. animal cruelty laws are common. dogfighting and cockfighting are illegal in many places. foie gras is banned in some places. long ago, these were as unthinkable as women's rights or banning torture.

i don't know anyone who thinks animals should have the same right as ppl.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 04:22 PM
things such as murder and **** and violence are natural and found in all known cultures in history. and in your neighborhood, too. natural and moral are very different.

eating meat is natural. i don't see how that is relevant to a moral debate.

so since we are able to digest human flesh, and get no harm from it, we should eat it? we are able to digest hair also. should we eat hair?

ppl's bodies also tell them to use violence against others, to steal, to kill, to ****, to lie, etc, etc. doesn't mean it's good.


I find it a little strange you see **** and stealing in the same light as eating. Like I said eating meat is neither a moral or non-natural, but if that's what your body is telling you then fine. And what substitute do you eat for the lack of meat in you diet. Because vegies have to you know it's not healty to lack the neutrients that meat provides.

aulus
02-23-2007, 05:17 PM
I find it a little strange you see **** and stealing in the same light as eating. Like I said eating meat is neither a moral or non-natural, but if that's what your body is telling you then fine. And what substitute do you eat for the lack of meat in you diet. Because vegies have to you know it's not healty to lack the neutrients that meat provides.

i don't see them in a similar light. **** and stealing and killing are similar, tho.
or i could ask, are **** and stealing comparable to torturing animals?

should ppl just do whatever their bodies tell them to? that your body tells you to eat meat is not very important.
what are you not getting? i have said already that eating meat is natural.
i see them all as natural things, about which moral decisions must be made.

it is actually very easy to get the nutrients that meat provides. really the only special things meat provides are B-12 and heme iron. if it were difficult, vegetarians would not be healthier on average than meat-eaters. but we are. :D

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 05:32 PM
i don't see them in a similar light. **** and stealing and killing are similar, tho.
or i could ask, are **** and stealing comparable to torturing animals?

should ppl just do whatever their bodies tell them to? that your body tells you to eat meat is not very important.
what are you not getting? i have said already that eating meat is natural.
i see them all as natural things, about which moral decisions must be made.

it is actually very easy to get the nutrients that meat provides. really the only special things meat provides are B-12 and heme iron. if it were difficult, vegetarians would not be healthier on average than meat-eaters. but we are. :D

People aren't healthier because they don't eat meat, no doctor would tell you that. But it's the way the average individual eats, and i never said I condone torture of animals, I just said that if you really want to do something about it, do something about it. I don't think refraining from eating meat really helps all that much. but I don't have a problem with it.

aulus
02-23-2007, 08:27 PM
People aren't healthier because they don't eat meat, no doctor would tell you that. But it's the way the average individual eats, and i never said I condone torture of animals, I just said that if you really want to do something about it, do something about it. I don't think refraining from eating meat really helps all that much. but I don't have a problem with it.

plenty of doctors advocate a meatless diet, but not most. vegetarians are on average healthier than non-vegetarians. altho not only because of diet.

i didn't say you would ever condone torture of animals, i'm saying it is comparable to stealing or ****. it is not the eating that is bad, it is suffering.
my point was that all those things are natural, but we must make moral decisions, whether something is natural or not. do you see my point?

almost nothing we do really helps that much, but it is something, and worth it, imo.

guille&tati4life
02-24-2007, 11:07 AM
Just to say, I see **** as considerably worse than stealing personally.

theMEESH
02-24-2007, 02:13 PM
Just to say, I see **** as considerably worse than stealing personally.

if you thought it was the opposite, that would be a little scary (well, actually, a lot scary.)

guille&tati4life
02-24-2007, 02:24 PM
if you thought it was the opposite, that would be a little scary (well, actually, a lot scary.)

I know, but with the conversation going on at the moment, i thought i'd make my position clear :lol:

aulus
02-24-2007, 09:38 PM
Just to say, I see **** as considerably worse than stealing personally.

of course, to me, it seems worse than murder.

was just giving examples of immoral actions.

guille&tati4life
02-25-2007, 04:26 PM
of course, to me, it seems worse than murder.

was just giving examples of immoral actions.

I wouldn't go that far.

I know that ;) it was for Sondraj's benefit.