Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

buddyholly
04-25-2007, 11:50 PM
The family of US soldier Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire, are outraged over the subsequent coverup and the lies put out by the Army that he died a hero, engaging the enemy.
Now that the truth is out, a US army spokesman has said on ESPN (Tillman was a professional football player that gave it all up to join the army after 9/11) that the real problem for the family is that ''they have to get their heads around the fact that their son was an atheist and therefore just worm dirt.''
So this is the army that is going to bring democracy to the rest of the world?
Imus is gone but so far the spokesman has not been punished.

Jim Jones
04-26-2007, 12:31 AM
The problem is that Tillman is a hero to the right wing so you won't see the left bitch about this. The right would not care about this either.

Joyce_23
04-26-2007, 08:46 AM
So let me get this straight, someone can say something like this in the States and no one, not right or left, cares? You gotta love the US... But good to know that I'm just worm dirt. :lol:

Lee
04-27-2007, 01:08 AM
So let me get this straight, someone can say something like this in the States and no one, not right or left, cares? You gotta love the US... But good to know that I'm just worm dirt. :lol:

I don't think so.

Lee
04-27-2007, 01:09 AM
The family of US soldier Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire, are outraged over the subsequent coverup and the lies put out by the Army that he died a hero, engaging the enemy.
Now that the truth is out, a US army spokesman has said on ESPN (Tillman was a professional football player that gave it all up to join the army after 9/11) that the real problem for the family is that ''they have to get their heads around the fact that their son was an atheist and therefore just worm dirt.''
So this is the army that is going to bring democracy to the rest of the world?
Imus is gone but so far the spokesman has not been punished.

When is this happened? Any source?

Lee
04-27-2007, 01:10 AM
The problem is that Tillman is a hero to the right wing so you won't see the left bitch about this. The right would not care about this either.

No.

lau
04-27-2007, 12:57 PM
When is this happened? Any source?
There´s a long report (4 parts, links under the banner) in http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=tillmanpart1

Kauzlarich, now a battalion commanding officer at Fort Riley in Kansas, further suggested the Tillman family's unhappiness with the findings of past investigations might be because of the absence of a Christian faith in their lives.

In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more — that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough."

Asked by ESPN.com whether the Tillmans' religious beliefs are a factor in the ongoing investigation, Kauzlarich said, "I think so. There is not a whole lot of trust in the system or faith in the system [by the Tillmans]. So that is my personal opinion, knowing what I know."

But you can find more sources/reports/articles if you google 'atheist dirt Tillman', for example http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=atheist+dirt+Tillman&btnG=Search

I personally find it 'offensive' (just to use one word) that one person/family religious believes, or lack of them, is considered a 'factor' in this kind of investigation or that the issue is brought up in this specific situation. So wrong...

Castafiore
04-27-2007, 01:24 PM
In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more — that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough.

I don't find this that offensive really (but I've only read the quotes here and not the full report).

He simply seems to wonder how an atheist deals with the death of a loved one.
Because those left behind who are believers can still hold on to their belief that there's something more. But how does an atheist deal with the fact that the life of a loved one was interrupted so soon and that's it.


Why is there so much fuss over this quote? :confused:

Sparko1030
04-27-2007, 02:03 PM
After reading the quote I dont' think the "worm dirt" reference is so bad but I fail to see what the Tillmans relgious beliefs (or absence of them) has to do with their desire for the truth. As a person who is reliegious, I would want to know the truth what happened and I would be outraged that the death of a love one was used as a political propaganda. I think any family would want to know the truth regardless of relgious background. The corollary to that would be that if you do believe in an after life, you wouldn't care what the truth was about a love ones death? I dont' think that stands up.

(:secret: I think the reason its hasn't gotten much attention is that its from ESPN-a sports channel, not a news channel. From what I've seen of sportscasters, they're not the most insightful bunch, not what you could call deep thinkers. Take them out of their comfort zone of sports and they're bound to say something like this. Really, most listeners probably didn't even pick up on the referance. ;) )

buddyholly
04-27-2007, 03:05 PM
There´s a long report (4 parts, links under the banner) in http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=tillmanpart1



But you can find more sources/reports/articles if you google 'atheist dirt Tillman', for example http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=atheist+dirt+Tillman&btnG=Search

I personally find it 'offensive' (just to use one word) that one person/family religious believes, or lack of them, is considered a 'factor' in this kind of investigation or that the issue is brought up in this specific situation. So wrong...

Thanks

buddyholly
04-27-2007, 03:08 PM
Why is there so much fuss over this quote? :confused:

Because he said that atheists were ''worm dirt'' and therefore implied that Christians were something better. Why are you confused?
It would be OK for an atheist army spokesman to say of a soldier killed in action ''Well he was only a Christian, so he thought he could go be happy in another life anyway, no big deal"?

buddyholly
04-27-2007, 03:13 PM
(:secret: I think the reason its hasn't gotten much attention is that its from ESPN-a sports channel, not a news channel. From what I've seen of sportscasters, they're not the most insightful bunch, not what you could call deep thinkers. Take them out of their comfort zone of sports and they're bound to say something like this. Really, most listeners probably didn't even pick up on the referance. ;) )

I think you missed the whole point. It was not a sportscaster speaking, it was a commanding officer of the US army.

This was 1000 times worse than what Don Imus said, so I do not understand why he has not yet been fired.

And for anyone not fully informed on this story, it is not so much about what an army spokesman said, but about the fact that knowing Tillman was killed by friendly fire, the army set about covering this up and spreading a story that he died heroically under enemy fire. They even gave him a post-humous medal for bravery.

NyGeL
04-27-2007, 03:29 PM
With that way of thinking, for him, terrorist suicides should be ok becouse they (that "branch" of islam) believe that after commiting suicide will go to an oasis full of virgin womans. Can life be better than that?

Sparko1030
04-27-2007, 04:20 PM
I think you missed the whole point. It was not a sportscaster speaking, it was a commanding officer of the US army.

This was 1000 times worse than what Don Imus said, so I do not understand why he has not yet been fired.

And for anyone not fully informed on this story, it is not so much about what an army spokesman said, but about the fact that knowing Tillman was killed by friendly fire, the army set about covering this up and spreading a story that he died heroically under enemy fire. They even gave him a post-humous medal for bravery.

Oops! :o sorry about that. Its is a ignorant, prejudice thing to say. Of course, Imus had a talk show on the airwaves, this guy doesn't. Still, that general who made those comments about gays got in trouble (not fired though I don't think), so why not this guy? :shrug: He can go on about Tilman's family not believing in an afterlife and supposedly that is the real reason they are pursuing the issue, and all the while is not the least bit remorseful about the lie he would have them all perpertrate. :rolleyes:

I agree what the greater story is here. The cover up and the making him a hero. He still is a hero IMO-Giving up a pro-football position to be a soldier, being part of the effort to fight the Talliban. It wasn't the scripted senerio put forth by the "official account' but it shouldn't diminish his service. I applaud his family for wanting to know the truth and bringing it to the public. It certainly would be easeir for them to leave the public record showing their son, brother to be a hero. I also applaud Jessica Lynch for telling the truth about what happened to her. When will the govenerment learn they can't get away with such lies. The truth will come out eventrually.

Lee
04-27-2007, 05:07 PM
The family of US soldier Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire, are outraged over the subsequent coverup and the lies put out by the Army that he died a hero, engaging the enemy.
Now that the truth is out, a US army spokesman has said on ESPN (Tillman was a professional football player that gave it all up to join the army after 9/11) that the real problem for the family is that ''they have to get their heads around the fact that their son was an atheist and therefore just worm dirt.''
So this is the army that is going to bring democracy to the rest of the world?
Imus is gone but so far the spokesman has not been punished.

In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more — that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough."


Your quote is quite different from the source that Lau provide (btw, thanks Lau) which makes a HUGE difference to me.

It's a fact that after we died, our bodies are just worm dirt. I'm Catholic and was reminded of that every Ash Wednesday. ;) Your quote implied that the guy considers Tillmans are worm dirt because they are atheists but what actually said there was after Tillman died, he's just worm dirt because atheists do not believe in spirit exists after body gone.

R.Federer
04-27-2007, 06:56 PM
This was 1000 times worse than what Don Imus said, so I do not understand why he has not yet been fired.

Not enough momentum or critical mass in the Wiccan/atheist community to create any problems for this guy to fry.

The left does not want to piss off the X-ian right because of the upcoming elections by seemingly taking the side of a Heaven Forbid, atheist, and the right probably agrees with the Army commander.

Jim Jones
04-27-2007, 07:13 PM
Not enough momentum or critical mass in the Wiccan/atheist community to create any problems for this guy to fry.

The left does not want to piss off the X-ian right because of the upcoming elections by seemingly taking the side of a Heaven Forbid, atheist, and the right probably agrees with the Army commander.
I don't know why you combined wiccanism with atheism. How about combining atheism with buddhism as you are at it. Atheism is the belief that non tangible things such as god and spiritual things does not exist. They are against all religions and cults, including wiccanism.

R.Federer
04-27-2007, 07:31 PM
I don't know why you combined wiccanism with atheism. How about combining atheism with buddhism as you are at it. Atheism is the belief that non tangible things such as god and spiritual things does not exist. They are against all religions and cults, including wiccanism.

Aren't atheists those who don't believe in Gods? It used to be that that is how they were defined. Buddhists believe in a God (his name is Buddha for them). Wiccan's don't.

Jim Jones
04-27-2007, 07:48 PM
Aren't atheists those who don't believe in Gods? It used to be that that is how they were defined. Buddhists believe in a God (his name is Buddha for them). Wiccan's don't.
Wiccans actually believe in Gods and Goddesses from what I read in wikipedia.

R.Federer
04-27-2007, 07:51 PM
Wiccans actually believe in Gods and Goddesses from what I read in wikipedia.

Well, I blame the recent news (about the veterans' fight) on CNN.com as my fount of information on them. If that is wrong, then scratch Wiccan from my 2 posts above.

Wicca is a nature-based religion based on respect for the earth, nature and the cycle of the seasons. Variations of the pentacle not accepted by Wiccans have been used in horror movies as a sign of the devil.

joyk
04-29-2007, 12:49 PM
What he said was not meant to insult atheists,he only wondered how we deal with death considering the fact thatwe don`t believe in heaven and life after death.

Strangelove
04-29-2007, 04:42 PM
What he said was not meant to insult atheists,he only wondered how we deal with death considering the fact thatwe don`t believe in heaven and life after death.Did you actually read the quote?

Unless you consider worm dirt a compliment of course. In which case you may disregard my reply :)

Allez
04-29-2007, 06:43 PM
Believing yourself to be your body is similar to believing that your alias on internet forums is the real you. That said I too don't buy all the religious rhetoric and brain washing. You can be spiritual without being religious.

buddyholly
04-30-2007, 03:35 AM
Your quote is quite different from the source that Lau provide (btw, thanks Lau) which makes a HUGE difference to me.

It's a fact that after we died, our bodies are just worm dirt. I'm Catholic and was reminded of that every Ash Wednesday. ;) Your quote implied that the guy considers Tillmans are worm dirt because they are atheists but what actually said there was after Tillman died, he's just worm dirt because atheists do not believe in spirit exists after body gone.

Yes, I typed what I heard on TV, sometime after. But I don't think there is a big difference. He was still implying that Christians have it better because there is more than just the corpse and so they are more than just worm dirt. But I agree it is not very clear what he said, but then Christian fundamentalists are not very smart by nature.

buddyholly
04-30-2007, 03:40 AM
What he said was not meant to insult atheists,he only wondered how we deal with death considering the fact thatwe don`t believe in heaven and life after death.

I guess we deal with it just like everybody else. We just don't waste our life on earth preparing for the oblivion to come.

Sparko1030
04-30-2007, 03:59 AM
I guess we deal with it just like everybody else. We just don't waste our life on earth preparing for the oblivion to come.

Well, as a Christian I have to say that I 'm not spending my time preparing for the "oblivian" either. I'm trying to make a difference here on earth and trying to live the life Christ directs us to. :)

Having said that, I think the worst part of the this general is trying to do it divert sympathy from Tillman's family by pointing out they're atheist, as if that makes a differece to what the truth is. It is another attempt to divert the publics' attention like the lie about how he died was used to divert attention from an increasingly unpopular war. If this general is a Christian as he seems to like to imply, then he could learn a lesson in honor from Tillman and his family.

Jlee
04-30-2007, 04:50 AM
Yes, I typed what I heard on TV, sometime after. But I don't think there is a big difference. He was still implying that Christians have it better because there is more than just the corpse and so they are more than just worm dirt. But I agree it is not very clear what he said, but then Christian fundamentalists are not very smart by nature.

Maybe I take offense to what you just said. Though I'm not sure if fundamentalist is quite the word I would use to describe myself.

From what the OP has posted, the general seems to be implying that Tillman was "worm dirt" and that his family is "worm dirt" because they are atheists. Obviously all of our bodies will eventually be worm dirt. He seems to imply that finding the truth behind what happened is somehow less important because Tillman was an atheist. That's definitely wrong.

If he had been using Tillman's atheistic beliefs and death to question atheism and how the families could have hope after the death of a loved one etc. from a stated Christian/religious perspective then maybe it would be different, though even that would be strange because I don't see why it would need to directly connect with Tillman. But I see no connection between his atheism and the need to investigate the events leading to his death.

joyk
04-30-2007, 08:58 AM
Did you actually read the quote?

Unless you consider worm dirt a compliment of course. In which case you may disregard my reply :)

I did read the quote and at first I was insulted but than I realized what he meant.I don`t consider "worm dirt"a compliment,but as an atheist I believe that we will all(christians,muslim,atheists etc) be food for worms one day,no life after death,no heaven,no anything,just "worm dirt".

He was still implying that Christians have it better because there is more than just the corpse and so they are more than just worm dirt.
That`s where the stupidity of his quote lies,not in the term "worm dirt",he thinks christians end up in heaven because they belive they will and atheists food for worms because we believe we will.

Jim Jones
04-30-2007, 01:27 PM
On wikipedia it implies that Tillman was agnostic and not atheist.