How to beat Nadal on clay? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

How to beat Nadal on clay?

Pages : [1] 2

marcRD
04-19-2007, 05:18 PM
What kind of weapons do you think a player need to have to beat Nadal on clay, what strategy works against Nadal on clay? 1st you need to have the weapons obviously, then you need to have a strategy to use the weapons in the right way. Which players do you think have the weapons to beat Nadal on clay? What strategy should they use?

I would like to hear this from people who knows alot about tennis. I dont know too much but the way I see it you have to attack Nadals weaknesses and play really short rallies, because when you start challenging him in a rally he is going to win +70% against almost any player out there on clay.

I think you really need to attack his 2nd serve which may be his weakest shot, it shortens the points and he doesnt have time to catch the ball if it is done in the right way as he has just completed his serving motion.

You need to serve really big, I was challenged once by GeorgeWhitler who just didnt think the serve is that important on clay and it may not be, but I think it is important against NAdal because he is a very mediocre 1st serve returner and I have seen players get many free points from their serve on clay against NAdal. Federers serve was amazing in Rome where he won 80% of his 1st serves which is more than any other player did on clay against NAdal last year and it almost payed of. A net game suits really good with a big serve to come in and finish the point quickly, something once again Federer did quite often in rome. Not a typical clay strategy, but on the other hand I dont think any of the claycourters have come with a better clay strategy to beat Nadal.

Last you need to have a consistent backhand which is powerful and attack NAdals forehand cross, because Nadal covers up the backhand down the line completely on clay. Whenever you get a chance to hit a big forehand do that, dont miss any oppurtunities to kill the point.

I have said before I belive Berdych to be player who I think can beat Nadal, he has praticaly all weapons I think is needed to defeat Nadal on clay. He only is inconsistent and need to have a really good day to defeat Nadal. I cant actually see anyone else beating Nadal, I am kind of curious on what Nalbandian could do, but his serve is a joke and even if he would break Nadal sometimes, Nadal would probably break him more often. Roger might beat Nadal in Rome, but his backhand doesnt have enought power to challenge Nadals forehand on clay and is too incosistent and his serve returns on clay are mediocre.

Please post your on thoughts about how to slow down the beast on clay. DOnt make this into a tardfight and dont concentrate in beeing critical on what I have been saying, if you think what I wrote was rubbish just post your own thoughts on how to beat NAdal on clay.

marcRD
04-19-2007, 05:24 PM
Please move this thread to GM, I accidently posted in the wrong subforum.

marcRD
04-19-2007, 05:30 PM
What kind of weapons do you think a player need to have to beat Nadal on clay, what strategy works against Nadal on clay? 1st you need to have the weapons obviously, then you need to have a strategy to use the weapons in the right way. Which players do you think have the weapons to beat Nadal on clay? What strategy should they use?

I would like to hear this from people who knows alot about tennis. I dont know too much but the way I see it you have to attack Nadals weaknesses and play really short rallies, because when you start challenging him in a rally he is going to win +70% against almost any player out there on clay.

I think you really need to attack his 2nd serve which may be his weakest shot, it shortens the points and he doesnt have time to catch the ball if it is done in the right way as he has just completed his serving motion.

You need to serve really big, I was challenged once by GeorgeWhitler who just didnt think the serve is that important on clay and it may not be, but I think it is important against NAdal because he is a very mediocre 1st serve returner and I have seen players get many free points from their serve on clay against NAdal. Federers serve was amazing in Rome where he won 80% of his 1st serves which is more than any other player did on clay against NAdal last year and it almost payed of. A net game suits really good with a big serve to come in and finish the point quickly, something once again Federer did quite often in rome. Not a typical clay strategy, but on the other hand I dont think any of the claycourters have come with a better clay strategy to beat Nadal.

Last you need to have a consistent backhand which is powerful and attack NAdals forehand cross, because Nadal covers up the backhand down the line completely on clay. Whenever you get a chance to hit a big forehand do that, dont miss any oppurtunities to kill the point.

I have said before I belive Berdych to be player who I think can beat Nadal, he has praticaly all weapons I think is needed to defeat Nadal on clay. He only is inconsistent and need to have a really good day to defeat Nadal. I cant actually see anyone else beating Nadal, I am kind of curious on what Nalbandian could do, but his serve is a joke and even if he would break Nadal sometimes, Nadal would probably break him more often. Roger might beat Nadal in Rome, but his backhand doesnt have enought power to challenge Nadals forehand on clay and is too incosistent and his serve returns on clay are mediocre.

Please post your on thoughts about how to slow down the beast on clay. DOnt make this into a tardfight and dont concentrate in beeing critical on what I have been saying, if you think what I wrote was rubbish just post your own thoughts on how to beat NAdal on clay.

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 05:30 PM
Ask Andreev.

adee-gee
04-19-2007, 05:32 PM
- Attack his serve, it's probably one of the easiest balls you'll get to hit in the rally.

- Don't let him dictate rallies, take the ball early and try to push him behind the baseline.

- Drop shots are useful, although Nadal is fast he falls for the drop shot quite often as he stands far back.

- Play extremely well and hope he has an off day :shrug:

adee-gee
04-19-2007, 05:32 PM
Ask Andreev.
Ask him how to beat Nadal 2 years ago you mean? :scratch:

Naide
04-19-2007, 05:33 PM
Ask him how to beat Nadal 2 years ago you mean? :scratch:

:haha: :yeah:

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 05:35 PM
Ask him how to beat Nadal 2 years ago you mean? :scratch:


:rolleyes: such naiveté.

It's the same, Nadal is the same moonballer he ever was.

marcRD
04-19-2007, 05:38 PM
- Don't let him dictate rallies, take the ball early and try to push him behind the baseline.


I dont know if it is just me, but I think Nadal on clay is completely comfortabe not dictating the rallies. There just is no hole in his defense and it is way more probable that the oppnent is going to end making an UE then hitting a winner and if Nadas opponent make a short ball NAdal eats that up. So he lets his opponent be in a position where they need to make risky powerful shots over and over again until they make an UE. On hardcourt this is exactly the reason he loses against hardhitters, he is too comfortable letting others dictate the point thinking he has the upper hand just like he does have on clay.

mashamaniac
04-19-2007, 05:38 PM
i'm not sure if his 2nd serve is his weakness as he has won 76% of his 2nd srv in the last 6 month! i also am not sure if he has many clear weaknesses! his volleys has improved 100% in compare to last year,his serve,BH,FH,all have improved and of course his most powerful weapon which was his passing-shots has got even better as we see him hit it 3 times perfect in last two matches! so plz don't ask about "how to beat him" cuz he seems unbeatable! after 64 matches and still no defeat!

Fed-Express
04-19-2007, 05:40 PM
If you really think that you know nothin about the game.

rofe
04-19-2007, 05:43 PM
Adding to the list:

1) A two handed backhand helps

2) Height so that Nadal's heavy topspin is in your strike zone (or take the ball very early to negate the topspin).

3) Be aggressive on second serves since they are very attackable.

sodman12
04-19-2007, 05:43 PM
I think you just have to hope for him to have an off day. Though with his style the things he relies upon don't really give way. I mean your not really slower one day than the other and with the amount of topspin he can put on the ball its hard for him to miss.

marcRD
04-19-2007, 05:44 PM
The reason I think Berdych can still be succesfull against NAdal on clay is because he is the powerhitter who had most success on clay together maybe with Gonzalez. Youzhny and Blake are very avarage on clay. Now Gonzalez just may also be able to beat Nadal but I dont like his backhand, those slices which worked in AO wont be a problem for Nadal on clay (not even Federers amazing slices cause problem for Nadal on clay).

Berdych is a big guy with a powerful cross 2 handedbackhand and those forehand topspins on that backhand just wont be as intimidating for Berdych.

Apemant
04-19-2007, 05:45 PM
- Attack his serve, it's probably one of the easiest balls you'll get to hit in the rally.

- Don't let him dictate rallies, take the ball early and try to push him behind the baseline.

- Drop shots are useful, although Nadal is fast he falls for the drop shot quite often as he stands far back.

- Play extremely well and hope he has an off day :shrug:

Rather good points there... except the drop shot. He seems able to catch all of them but the best of the breed, even when standing 4 yards behind the baseline. And then often kills them with ease.

I'd say (on top of your suggestions): you need a monster 2H BH, hit it deep and strong into his forehand. His forehand is an awesome weapon when he has time to actually execute it (on clay, it's more often than not); but otherwise, it can be broken by relentless bludgeoning.

Also, a monster 1st serve would be useful if you could get a ton of service winners or at least weak returns for easy putaways or something.

marcRD
04-19-2007, 05:46 PM
Adding to the list:

1) A two handed backhand helps

2) Height so that Nadal's heavy topspin is in your strike zone (or take the ball very early to negate the topspin).

3) Be aggressive on second serves since they are very attackable.

Exactly.

tripb19
04-19-2007, 05:46 PM
Throw a fridge at him.

See, it's these obscure but ultimately effective techniques and tactics that have made me one of the most in demand coaches in the tennis world. :yeah:

ReturnWinner
04-19-2007, 05:55 PM
to use a 9mm glock and a 22 mm semi-automatic weapon the same as Cho Seung Hui used in the virginia shooting (do not get me wrong i am not making fun of such a sad tragedy)

that is the only chance to def him :p

tangerine_dream
04-19-2007, 05:55 PM
Ask Andreev.
Ask him how to beat Nadal 2 years ago you mean? :scratch:
:haha:

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 05:57 PM
If the question is: "how to get youself a humiliating beating from a moonballer at home?", the answer is: ask Roddick.

MaryWalsh
04-19-2007, 06:00 PM
Throw a fridge at him.

I feel sorry for the fridge

dijus
04-19-2007, 06:05 PM
:rolleyes: such naiveté.

It's the same, Nadal is the same moonballer he ever was.

stop bashing Rafa, it's so annoying man :o

minhngoc
04-19-2007, 06:07 PM
to use a 9mm glock and a 22 mm semi-automatic weapon the same as Cho Seung Hui used in the virginia shooting (do not get me wrong i am not making fun of such a sad tragedy)

that is the only chance to def him

Wtv you said, you really shouldn't even mention it in the same sentence of the jpke. It's inappropriate, insensitive and somewhat inhuman.

rubsch
04-19-2007, 06:08 PM
I think you should:

-be able to cover the net pretty good

-have a big serve

-be very fast

-have variable shots (federer did pretty good in Rome)

-keep the points short

-be able to destroy him mentally (Hewitt would be the best to do that, Roger is too calm) that means celebrate every point like he does

-play powerfull

-be confident and you shouldn't show it if you're frustrated because that really brings him on top

-and at least you shouldn't think too much about winning (one mor mistake Federer made in Rome and Roland Garros)

I also think that players who have a simliar game could beat him if they get the better day form... Remember :worship: Coria:worship: in Rome, it took Nadal five hours to beat him and Coria wasn't fare away from winning.

-something I forgot: be a lefty ;)

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 06:11 PM
stop bashing Rafa, it's so annoying man :o

I'm glad you feel it that way.

dijus
04-19-2007, 06:12 PM
I'm glad you feel it that way.

and you are the same idiot you ever were

marcRD
04-19-2007, 06:13 PM
I think you should:

I also think that players who have a simliar game could beat him if they get the better day form... Remember :worship: Coria:worship: in Rome, it took Nadal five hours to beat him and Coria wasn't fare away from winning.

-something I forgot: be a lefty ;)

I dont think Nadal back then was as confident of his abilities as Nadal of today, no matter what Glenn says his game has improved alot since then and he is more aggresive and has more variety. Nadal today would win straight sets against Coria of 2 years ago.

Be a lefty, good point. Nieminen almost beat him in barcelona. Sadly there are no truly good lefties on the tour besides Nadal.

ReturnWinner
04-19-2007, 06:13 PM
:retard:
Wtv you said, you really shouldn't even mention it in the same sentence of the jpke. It's inappropriate, insensitive and somewhat inhuman.

scoobs
04-19-2007, 06:14 PM
Hit every shot a topspin moonball deep to the backhand corner, even the serve, apart from the winner hit flat to the forehand corner at 300mph

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 06:19 PM
and you are the same idiot you ever were

:haha: keep it going, I care about it as much as I care about exhibitions. :lol:

Burrow
04-19-2007, 06:20 PM
:rolleyes: such naiveté.

It's the same, Nadal is the same moonballer he ever was.

:haha: correct.

dijus
04-19-2007, 06:21 PM
:haha: keep it going, I care about it as much as I care about exhibitions. :lol:

ya , you are idiot and don't care :lol:

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 06:22 PM
ya , you are idiot and don't care :lol:

No, I don't care about whatever you say, 'cause it's obviously heavy :bs:.

BlackSilver
04-19-2007, 06:33 PM
You need to serve really big
but on the other hand I dont think any of the claycourters have come with a better clay strategy to beat Nadal.
I cant actually see anyone else beating Nadal


and hope he has an off day


Adding to the list:
1) A two handed backhand helps
2) Height so that Nadal's heavy topspin is in your strike zone (or take the ball very early to negate the topspin).


I think you just have to hope for him to have an off day.


Berdych is the powerhitter who had most success on clay together maybe with Gonzalez.


Rather good points there... except the drop shot. He seems able to catch all of them but the best of the breed, even when standing 4 yards behind the baseline. And then often kills them with ease.

I'd say (on top of your suggestions): you need a monster 2H BH, hit it deep and strong into his forehand.


Exactly.


no matter what Glenn says his game has improved alot since then and he is more aggresive and has more variety. Nadal today would win straight sets against Coria of 2 years ago.



PLEASE MAKE IT STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!

Merton
04-19-2007, 06:33 PM
Gaudio and Andreev, huge servers. Berdych is dangerous for Nadal, but not because of his serve on clay.

vincayou
04-19-2007, 06:36 PM
Basically, it's : shorten the rallies.

What is obviously harder on clay, and why he's so successful.

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 06:38 PM
PLEASE MAKE IT STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!

:haha: :haha: :haha: poor you, get used to it. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to go through the clay season.

marcRD
04-19-2007, 06:42 PM
PLEASE MAKE IT STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!

WTF? What is your problem? Dont come to my threads if you are so annoyed by me.

Adler
04-19-2007, 06:43 PM
serve and volley. what? don't look at me like that. if you know how to handle this you'll have an opportunity (note: just an opportunity, not a 100% chance)

Adler
04-19-2007, 06:45 PM
1) A two handed backhand helps
what about Gaudio?

marcRD
04-19-2007, 06:46 PM
Serve and volley needs to be executed perfectly on clay to work and it isnt enought to beat Nadal, you have to have a good baseline game too and excellent approaches.

Adler
04-19-2007, 06:48 PM
Serve and volley needs to be executed perfectly on clay to work and it isnt enought to beat Nadal, you have to have a good baseline game too and excellent approaches.
come on, he usually has some off service games. and even if not, there's always a TB

Rafa = Fed Killa
04-19-2007, 06:48 PM
Marc ignore Glenn and his kind.

They hate clay and Nadal and are trying to start a tard war.

Best way to beat Nadal is take the ball on the rise to take away his time and pressure him. Also, be ready to run full speed for 5+ hours.

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 06:49 PM
Marc ignore Glenn and his kind.

They hate clay and Nadal and are trying to start a tard war.

Best way to beat Nadal is take the ball on the rise to take away his time and pressure him. Also, be ready to run full speed for 5+ hours.

He's a fedtard, Herr Hitler. He's just as dumb as the Rafa-fanboys.

A_Skywalker
04-19-2007, 06:52 PM
I cant believe that there are people that talk the same things every day. I mean, 1-2-3-4 times okay, but every day... :D I mean no offense, its funny to read.

Rafa = Fed Killa
04-19-2007, 06:52 PM
He's a fedtard, Herr Hitler. He's just as dumb as the Rafa-fanboys.

Calm down Stalin.

No ones as dumb as you.

Naide
04-19-2007, 06:54 PM
I cant believe that there are people that talk the same things every day.

Well Glenn needs to deliver his daily BS here. We get used to it.

marcRD
04-19-2007, 06:56 PM
He's a fedtard, Herr Hitler. He's just as dumb as the Rafa-fanboys.

Why are you always around in my threads? Just mind your own business if you think I am dumb. Its not like I get offended by you, I am just surprised you dont have anything better to do with your time, start your own thread about how Nadal is an untalented moonballing pig on juice and your other intellectual thoughts about tennis.

Seneca
04-19-2007, 07:00 PM
Ask Andreev.
Yes, the way to beat Nadal is to play him when he's jet-lagged and fatigued after a five-set match in a different time zone.

Seriously... Berdych, Blake and Youzhny have shown the most efficient way of playing against Nadal. I think their success could be duplicated on clay as well. The problem remains that clay as a surface plays completely to Nadal's own strengths which makes the whole task hideously difficult.

The three guys mentioned above have a way to counter Nadal's money shot, the crosscourt forehand. Youzhny takes the ball very early, Berdych can hit the ball well from surprising heights and Blake is more volatile but still dangerous from his backhand side. Netplay against Nadal is a tough affair, Federer's volleying in Rome last year was the only time I've seen anyone actually trouble Nadal more from the net than from the backcourt. As only few guys are on Federer's level when at the net, I'd suggest most players to just stay the hell away from there except when following an almost certain winner for an easy putaway. Dropshots as a tactical element are needless, the piggy is too fast.

I could see Safin :rolleyes: or Berdych having the most chances. Gonzo in AO-form could make some things happen too except that his slice gives the iniative to Nadal. Any power-hitter actually has his chances. Soderling or Berdych in SF will be a test for Nadal. Cańas might actually be able to out-grind him on a good day.

richie21
04-19-2007, 07:01 PM
I also think that players who have a simliar game could beat him if they get the better day form... Remember :worship: Coria:worship: in Rome, it took Nadal five hours to beat him and Coria wasn't fare away from winning.


Nadal has improved since 2005.
don t forget that in 2005,Andreev beat him and even Gasquet almost beat him on clay!

marcRD
04-19-2007, 07:03 PM
come on, he usually has some off service games. and even if not, there's always a TB

If you serve and volley sometimes and stay back other times I think you can create the surprise moment which is needed for Nadal not to get ready when you do get to the net. If you serve volley all the time he will start hitting passing shots after a while and even if he doesnt pass you, your volley needs to be perfect because if it is not Nadal will pass u in the next oppurtunity.

There is only one guy with a serve good enought to serve and volley even on clay and that is Karlovic. Is it just me or is anyone else very excited about the idea of Karlovic facing Nadal in the early rounds in RG?

tangerine_dream
04-19-2007, 07:43 PM
If the question is: "how to get youself a humiliating beating from a moonballer at home?", the answer is: ask Roddick.
:yawn: Try harder. :zzz: :zzz:

BlackSilver
04-19-2007, 07:45 PM
WTF? What is your problem? Dont come to my threads if you are so annoyed by me.

You are my problem. My biggest problem at least.

I came here to see if there was some something interesting to read and have to read all this nonsense. I knew that you wasn't going to say anything interesting, because I remember you talking some crap in some old posts.
But I was wrong. You made a few good comments and some other reasonably comments
Unfortunatelly, for every comment like those, you talked 2-3 times more crap.
I don't deserve to hear all this DISGUSTING ass sucking of Nadal and this nonsense about clay tennis that you, mainly, and others are doing.
This is WORST than all that ridiculous overhyping of Federer and Gonzalez at AO Open, when half MTF thought they were playing the highest level of tennis from all time (No MTF, they were in reality playing a very high level of tennis, helped by their stupid and incompetent semi final opponents and a bunch of australian idiots that doesn't know how to count unforced errors).

No one deserves this king of drooling, except, maybe, Federer ON GRASS.
Since you made some few good comments, probably there is some hope for you.
Go watch some clay tennis and try to figure out why you said so much nonsense.
Otherwise, keep showing your lack of clay tennis knowledge and of how the main clay players play tennis, keep sucking Nadal's ass and thinking he is invencible.

brent-o
04-19-2007, 07:55 PM
:rolleyes: such naiveté.

It's the same, Nadal is the same moonballer he ever was.

Even so, what has Andreev done that's significant? Where's his winning streak?

thegre8w0n
04-19-2007, 08:01 PM
Attack his second serve it is the weakest part of his game. It's why he had so much trouble last summer on the hard courts. A good returner will give him a good challenge on clay.

jazar
04-19-2007, 08:01 PM
i reckon a crowbar to the knee should do the trick.

seriously though i think mix it up. hit through the forehand to his backhand, then wait for an opportunity to come down the line.play heavy slice backhands when his shots dont kick up as much. take control of the net

Adler
04-19-2007, 08:15 PM
marcRD - I thought about mixing s&v with rallies, of course. Reckless charge to the net a la Taylor Dent won't work, and you already gave the reason

marcRD
04-19-2007, 08:19 PM
You are my problem. My biggest problem at least.

I came here to see if there was some something interesting to read and have to read all this nonsense. I knew that you wasn't going to say anything interesting, because I remember you talking some crap in some old posts.
But I was wrong. You made a few good comments and some other reasonably comments
Unfortunatelly, for every comment like those, you talked 2-3 times more crap.
I don't deserve to hear all this DISGUSTING ass sucking of Nadal and this nonsense about clay tennis that you, mainly, and others are doing.
This is WORST than all that ridiculous overhyping of Federer and Gonzalez at AO Open, when half MTF thought they were playing the highest level of tennis from all time (No MTF, they were in reality playing a very high level of tennis, helped by their stupid and incompetent semi final opponents and a bunch of australian idiots that doesn't know how to count unforced errors).

No one deserves this king of drooling, except, maybe, Federer ON GRASS.
Since you made some few good comments, probably there is some hope for you.
Go watch some clay tennis and try to figure out why you said so much nonsense.
Otherwise, keep showing your lack of clay tennis knowledge and of how the main clay players play tennis, keep sucking Nadal's ass and thinking he is invencible.

Why dont you teach me some about clay tennis if you have the "clay tennis knowledge" that I lack?

alfonsojose
04-19-2007, 08:23 PM
to use a 9mm glock and a 22 mm semi-automatic weapon the same as Cho Seung Hui used in the virginia shooting (do not get me wrong i am not making fun of such a sad tragedy)

that is the only chance to def him :p

:retard:

All_Slam_Andre
04-19-2007, 08:30 PM
Pour loads of absinthe into his water bottles.
Seriously though. His 2nd serve is pretty attackable so you have to look to exploit this. You need a strong two handed backhand to be able to handle his vicious crosscourt forehand. Being tall like Berdych helps as it makes it much easier to handle the topspin and high bounce. Take the ball early and look to constantly push him back further and further behind the baseline, making it easier to finish off the point with a winner. Of course all of this is much easier said than done.

Jim Courier
04-19-2007, 09:22 PM
-Serve well.
-Insist on playing many high topspins on his backhand, he doesn't put as much power and length on those but you need to put a LOT of topspin. It's easier to do on forehands but it could work with a very spinny one-handed backhand like Gaudio's or Gasquet's. In Fedtard words moonball him back to the moon.

tripb19
04-20-2007, 12:34 AM
You are my problem. My biggest problem at least.

I came here to see if there was some something interesting to read and have to read all this nonsense. I knew that you wasn't going to say anything interesting, because I remember you talking some crap in some old posts.
But I was wrong. You made a few good comments and some other reasonably comments
Unfortunatelly, for every comment like those, you talked 2-3 times more crap.
I don't deserve to hear all this DISGUSTING ass sucking of Nadal and this nonsense about clay tennis that you, mainly, and others are doing.
This is WORST than all that ridiculous overhyping of Federer and Gonzalez at AO Open, when half MTF thought they were playing the highest level of tennis from all time (No MTF, they were in reality playing a very high level of tennis, helped by their stupid and incompetent semi final opponents and a bunch of australian idiots that doesn't know how to count unforced errors).

No one deserves this king of drooling, except, maybe, Federer ON GRASS.
Since you made some few good comments, probably there is some hope for you.
Go watch some clay tennis and try to figure out why you said so much nonsense.
Otherwise, keep showing your lack of clay tennis knowledge and of how the main clay players play tennis, keep sucking Nadal's ass and thinking he is invencible.

:retard:

leng jai
04-20-2007, 12:38 AM
Its quite simple really. Hit an ace every serve. Hit a backhand winner down the line on the line. Mix it up with a cross court winner on the line. Mix it again with forehand winners in all directions on the lines. Throw in a dropshot that drops one millimetre over the net and on the line every now and again. I'm pretty sure if you did that you'd be okay against Nadal on clay.

leng jai
04-20-2007, 12:41 AM
You are my problem. My biggest problem at least.

I came here to see if there was some something interesting to read and have to read all this nonsense. I knew that you wasn't going to say anything interesting, because I remember you talking some crap in some old posts.
But I was wrong. You made a few good comments and some other reasonably comments
Unfortunatelly, for every comment like those, you talked 2-3 times more crap.
I don't deserve to hear all this DISGUSTING ass sucking of Nadal and this nonsense about clay tennis that you, mainly, and others are doing.
This is WORST than all that ridiculous overhyping of Federer and Gonzalez at AO Open, when half MTF thought they were playing the highest level of tennis from all time (No MTF, they were in reality playing a very high level of tennis, helped by their stupid and incompetent semi final opponents and a bunch of australian idiots that doesn't know how to count unforced errors).

No one deserves this king of drooling, except, maybe, Federer ON GRASS.
Since you made some few good comments, probably there is some hope for you.
Go watch some clay tennis and try to figure out why you said so much nonsense.
Otherwise, keep showing your lack of clay tennis knowledge and of how the main clay players play tennis, keep sucking Nadal's ass and thinking he is invencible.

Right you are brother. It is totally Haas' incompetence that Gonzalez hit 42 winners and 3 unforced errors for the match.

kobulingam
04-20-2007, 01:07 AM
Adding to the list:

1) A two handed backhand helps

2) Height so that Nadal's heavy topspin is in your strike zone (or take the ball very early to negate the topspin).

3) Be aggressive on second serves since they are very attackable.


You've defined Berdych.

Johnny Groove
04-20-2007, 01:47 AM
Balls. Big, huge cojones to not choke, and again, you need balls, something Berdych, Federer, and other Nadal wannabe upsetters dont have.

Kolya
04-20-2007, 02:13 AM
Firstly, you have to be FITTER than Nadal.

Get Kent Carlsson :lol:

Sean.J.S.
04-20-2007, 02:52 AM
The answer is fairly simple. Come into the net to finish off the points quickly rather than rallying for hours five metres behind the baseline.

rofe
04-20-2007, 03:35 AM
You've defined Berdych.

Was it that obvious? ;)

Seriously, if Birdman can get past Soderling and keep it together mentally in his match against Nadal, it will be one hell of a ride.

Veronique
04-20-2007, 03:47 AM
Bring on Tomas! I can't wait!

GlennMirnyi
04-20-2007, 03:49 AM
Balls. Big, huge cojones to not choke, and again, you need balls, something Berdych, Federer, and other Nadal wannabe upsetters dont have.

:haha:

GlennMirnyi
04-20-2007, 03:56 AM
Why are you always around in my threads? Just mind your own business if you think I am dumb. Its not like I get offended by you, I am just surprised you dont have anything better to do with your time, start your own thread about how Nadal is an untalented moonballing pig on juice and your other intellectual thoughts about tennis.

If you don't like me ban me. If you ever get to be a mod, someday. :lol:

You are my problem. My biggest problem at least.

I came here to see if there was some something interesting to read and have to read all this nonsense. I knew that you wasn't going to say anything interesting, because I remember you talking some crap in some old posts.
But I was wrong. You made a few good comments and some other reasonably comments
Unfortunatelly, for every comment like those, you talked 2-3 times more crap.
I don't deserve to hear all this DISGUSTING ass sucking of Nadal and this nonsense about clay tennis that you, mainly, and others are doing.
This is WORST than all that ridiculous overhyping of Federer and Gonzalez at AO Open, when half MTF thought they were playing the highest level of tennis from all time (No MTF, they were in reality playing a very high level of tennis, helped by their stupid and incompetent semi final opponents and a bunch of australian idiots that doesn't know how to count unforced errors).

No one deserves this king of drooling, except, maybe, Federer ON GRASS.
Since you made some few good comments, probably there is some hope for you.
Go watch some clay tennis and try to figure out why you said so much nonsense.
Otherwise, keep showing your lack of clay tennis knowledge and of how the main clay players play tennis, keep sucking Nadal's ass and thinking he is invencible.

Just when I thought most Brazilians posting here were retarded Saretta-fans, this guy comes to save our country. :worship: and :hatoff: for you mate.

Even so, what has Andreev done that's significant? Where's his winning streak?

Winning streak? :lol: Winning streaks only matter when they stretch in different surfaces. Being an uni-dimensional player isn't that worth.

Sunset of Age
04-20-2007, 03:59 AM
Bring on Tomas! I can't wait!

Bring on the Birdy, indeed - I don't care for the outcome as I love *both* Raf and Birdy (yeah, I know, I'm a strange one! :p), but at least... LET IT BE A REAL MATCH!

Metis
04-20-2007, 04:06 AM
Bring on the Birdy, indeed - I don't care for the outcome as I love *both* Raf and Birdy (yeah, I know, I'm a strange one! :p), but at least... LET IT BE A REAL MATCH!


I thought you wanted a Roger-Rafa final. Hmmm... you hang out too much with the Fedtards lately. Suspect behavior, very suspect...

:lol:

Sunset of Age
04-20-2007, 04:11 AM
I thought you wanted a Roger-Rafa final. Hmmm... you hang out too much with the Fedtards lately. Suspect behavior, very suspect...

:lol:

Heheh. Did I ever make a secret about my Rogi-love? :p

No, serious - I just hope to see a good match between Raf and the Bird-Creature. Besides me quite liking the latter, the most I care about is seeing GOOD MATCHES. And Raf - Vliegen wasn't exactly that, even if the Total Destruction :p was quite nice to witness.

More than anything else, I'd LOVE to see a Rogi - Rafa final again. Doesn't my signature already say so? Whoever wins - I'll be a happy camper. :worship:

Metis
04-20-2007, 04:21 AM
Heheh. Did I ever make a secret about my Rogi-love? :p

No, serious - I just hope to see a good match between Raf and the Bird-Creature. Besides me quite liking the latter, the most I care about is seeing GOOD MATCHES. And Raf - Vliegen wasn't exactly that, even if the Total Destruction :p was quite nice to witness.

More than anything else, I'd LOVE to see a Rogi - Rafa final again. Doesn't my signature already say so? Whoever wins - I'll be a happy camper. :worship:

'Vivere pericolosamente' is your motto then. You are a double agent. :D :devil:

I used to think I liked them both equally too, but the balance has tipped a lot, especially since I joined MTF. :lol:

Action Jackson
04-20-2007, 06:37 AM
I love the exchange of philosophical ideas in the thread, it just warms my heart.

ugotlobbed
04-20-2007, 07:53 AM
ivo karlovic

Medina
04-20-2007, 08:00 AM
ivo karlovic

i think he can beat nadal on clay. Besides the fact he is a bit slow.

He has a huge first serve, and its really hard to get past him at the net... :)

Lleytonisthebest
04-20-2007, 12:07 PM
i find it weird nobody thinks an in-form safin could beat nadal !! the guy is tall and strong the top spin wouldn't affect him too much even more he has a 2h BH. his serve is hard and his second serve as well and if he can be tough mentally he puts nadal out in straight sets

Rommella
04-20-2007, 12:07 PM
I love the exchange of philosophical ideas in the thread, it just warms my heart. :lol:

Kolya
04-20-2007, 12:14 PM
Fitness people... you need someone fitter than Nadal.

He is going to run every ball down.... you need to wear Nadal down.

MariaV
04-20-2007, 12:18 PM
i find it weird nobody thinks an in-form safin could beat nadal !! the guy is tall and strong the top spin wouldn't affect him too much even more he has a 2h BH. his serve is hard and his second serve as well and if he can be tough mentally he puts nadal out in straight sets

Marat's BH cc and dtl IS pure heaven when it's working, in my opinion. :hearts: :worship: :bowdown: Look at the 1st set vs Vliegen. And yes, his serve can be a weapon.
As the AO 2005 semis vs JesusFed (the match everybody here just looove to talk about all the time) showed Marat is indeed capable of beating anybody, even the God himself on a day. Just that this day happens only once in 5 years. :o :sad: :shrug: So this is more of a theoretical speculation, but theoretically yes, you'e right. Only practically .... you know, you probably know what's been happening.

bokehlicious
04-20-2007, 01:11 PM
As the AO 2005 semis vs JesusFed (the match the maratards here just looove to talk about all the time) showed Marat is indeed capable of beating anybody, even the God himself on a day. Just that this day happens only once in 5 years. :o :sad: :shrug: So this is more of a theoretical speculation, but theoretically yes, you'e right. Only practically .... you know, you probably know what's been happening.

Just made a correction :o :wavey:

Forehander
04-20-2007, 01:24 PM
I reckon if players can train themselves to hit 150k forehands on the sliding runs on clay it'll make a difference. I wish we can see nadal-federer final. I am a federer fan and I know rog don't stand much of a chance against this clay court GOD (not king lol). But if Nadal is God then federer is the king of clay, he will reach God sometime too with the use of his own magic =)

Forehander
04-20-2007, 01:27 PM
you guys when talking about Marat, the only player who has talents to match federer on the circuit thus far, shouldn't only talk about the 2005 match. you guys should also recall the match in US open final in 2000 when he ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED Pete Sampras. The way he played Federer that day, or the way he played the Australian Open in 05 was how he played in 2000 in US open. Very impressive tennis =) And yes he's tall and can hit powerful flat shots, I don't think Nadal will match Marat Safin. But on the other hand Safin is the most unstable player you'll see on tour lol so dunno.

GlennMirnyi
04-20-2007, 04:04 PM
Safin = overrated.

Mateya
04-20-2007, 06:41 PM
Piece of cake.

:smoke:

Johnny Groove
04-20-2007, 09:16 PM
Heheh. Did I ever make a secret about my Rogi-love? :p

No, serious - I just hope to see a good match between Raf and the Bird-Creature. Besides me quite liking the latter, the most I care about is seeing GOOD MATCHES. And Raf - Vliegen wasn't exactly that, even if the Total Destruction :p was quite nice to witness.

More than anything else, I'd LOVE to see a Rogi - Rafa final again. Doesn't my signature already say so? Whoever wins - I'll be a happy camper. :worship:

Karin likes BERDYCH?!?!?!?!?!?! :eek: :mad: :mad:

We need to call off that wedding, and that baby is DEFINITELY not mine!!!!

marcRD
04-22-2007, 03:20 PM
So Bedych didnt come up for the task neither did Roger as expected. What now How can you possibly beat this guy, it is almost unbelivable to see him on clay really.

Julio
04-22-2007, 04:02 PM
I think that a guy like Edberg would find some solutions to beat Rafa on clay : a big and intelligent serve, an excellent volley, some chip and charge on return... Creative, be creative !!! :angel:

marcRD
04-22-2007, 04:28 PM
I think that a guy like Edberg would find some solutions to beat Rafa on clay : a big and intelligent serve, an excellent volley, some chip and charge on return... Creative, be creative !!! :angel:

No way, not on clay! He barely had a forehand, you need to atleast hangin there in baseline rallies against Nadal. Eberg's serve wasnt good enought to make an impact on clay. Edberg lost against 17 years old Chang in the RG final, Nadal is like a super pumped up Chang twice as fast, twice as strong and twice the balls.

marcRD
04-22-2007, 04:34 PM
I keep thinking about Davydenko and Nalbandian, could they outrally Nadal when they are at the top of their game. It is obvious that Berdych cant outrally him, but I think he could play alot better than the match in montecarlo playing more aggresive and beeing lucky on important points might do it. Gasquet with that bachand drive and without mental retardation? Karlovic servin +15 aces/set? Maybe even Safin in a crazy awesome form day? What about Canas, could he fight his way to victory against a fighter like Nadal? Djokovic has such a consistant baseline game which could work against Nadal too, but is he too young?

There are still interesting matchups which needs to be seen.

jazar
04-22-2007, 04:44 PM
I keep thinking about Davydenko and Nalbandian, could they outrally Nadal when they are at the top of their game. It is obvious that Berdych cant outrally him, but I think he could play alot better than the match in montecarlo playing more aggresive and beeing lucky on important points might do it. Gasquet with that bachand drive and without mental retardation? Karlovic servin +15 aces/set? Maybe even Safin in a crazy awesome form day? What about Canas, could he fight his way to victory against a fighter like Nadal? Djokovic has such a consistant baseline game which could work against Nadal too, but is he too young?

There are still interesting matchups which needs to be seen.

davydenko and nalbandian lack the variation to beat him.
gasquet lacks the movement.
karlovic lacks the groundstrokes.
safin lacks the movement and mental capacity.

i think canas and djokovic would stand a fairly good chance though

RonE
04-22-2007, 04:48 PM
i think canas and djokovic would stand a fairly good chance though

Canas would play right into Nadal's hands. Nadal can play his style of tennis and much better- you need to have at least one big weapon to really hurt Nadal with. Canas doesn't really have one oustandingly good shot.

Nole- I don't think so. Even in Miami on a hardcourt when Djoke beat him Rafa was controlling most of the points. On clay that would only be magnified.

Out of all the current players there really is no one who is a serious match for Nadal on clay. :shrug:

Julio1974
04-22-2007, 04:55 PM
Canas would play right into Nadal's hands. Nadal can play his style of tennis and much better- you need to have at least one big weapon to really hurt Nadal with. Canas doesn't really have one oustandingly good shot.

Nole- I don't think so. Even in Miami on a hardcourt when Djoke beat him Rafa was controlling most of the points. On clay that would only be magnified.

Out of all the current players there really is no one who is a serious match for Nadal on clay. :shrug:

I was going to post exactly the same. Nadal would beat Cańas easily on clay.
And Nalbandian, even if his top form, wouldn't stand a chance either.
If Gasquet had a brain, he could trouble him.
The old Coria was able to trouble him too.

guga2120
04-22-2007, 04:59 PM
Out of all the current players there really is no one who is a serious match for Nadal on clay.
not being sarcastic after todays match, i still think Federer is his greatest threat in Paris, he just can not sit there and trade groundstrokes with Nadal, he needs to get in whenever he can, he did it fairly well last year in Rome.

RonE
04-22-2007, 05:02 PM
not being sarcastic after todays match, i still think Federer is his greatest threat in Paris, he just can not sit there and trade groundstrokes with Nadal, he needs to get in whenever he can, he did it fairly well last year in Rome.

Well mental awareness and applying the intensity are just as much a part of match play as serves and forehands. Having the technical abilities to do it is not enough you need the application to execute those abilities and to know when is the right time to do so and Roger just doesn't have that against Nadal on clay.

aramis
04-22-2007, 05:37 PM
Out of the current generation of clay courters, I don't see anyone tough enough to beat Rafa. I think Coria proved in 05 that he's got a decent shot if he's at his best, but he is no where near that level and Rafa has improved in power since then. Maybe the power Ferrero from 02/03 can break down Nadal. Like many of you said a player needs some sort of weapon to hurt Rafa, and forehands don't get much better than what Ferrero had in those years. He's been recovering his clay court game since the beginning of the year so I think there is a lot of potential in him.

Of course, Kuerten vs. Nadal is the match we all want to see, but Guga will never recover his old level. Even though he has the desire, his body has lost the flexibility from all the hip surgeries. He can no longer be the elastic man.

guga2120
04-22-2007, 05:40 PM
Of course, Kuerten vs. Nadal is the match we all want to see,

Now thats somebody that could beat him, but even for Gustavo it would be hard, i think in his prime it would be very close, they both would get victories against each other.

enzogiovanni
04-22-2007, 05:51 PM
What kind of weapons do you think a player need to have to beat Nadal on clay, what strategy works against Nadal on clay?

You don't need any strategy at all.
Bring Ivo Karlović on the court an make him serve ace after ace against Nadal.
Then hope he does the same in the tie-break while Nadal needs just 1 unforced error per tie break.

That's it folks.

Apemant
04-22-2007, 06:32 PM
You don't need any strategy at all.
Bring Ivo Karlović on the court an make him serve ace after ace against Nadal.
Then hope he does the same in the tie-break while Nadal needs just 1 unforced error per tie break.

That's it folks.

Barcelona final, anyone? :devil:

Mateya
04-22-2007, 09:05 PM
I would love to see Nadal-Karlovic match, however.

But it´s not gonna happen in Barcelona final I am afraid...There is a potencial Boredo in the QF...and fully juiced Willy in the semis :devil: :banana:

A_Skywalker
04-22-2007, 09:17 PM
Break his leg, break his left arm, punch him in the face and let him play after that :D

D-man
04-22-2007, 09:48 PM
Alright, this is going against all of humanity here, but I've studied the matches and I have the key.

Everybody's like, "Well, you can't beat Nadal from the baseline... so you have to do this, this, this, blah, blah, blah."

Here's the real secret: . . . that's exactly how Federer can beat Nadal. Totally the opposite of what you think.

How did Federer beat Pete Sampras? By playing Pete's game. He's got to play Nadal's game to beat Nadal.

No, not going to the net whenever he can. No, not trying to end the points. That's just it. Federer likes to be glamorous and hit winners... he thinks he must hit winners. He's better than Nadal at Nadal's own game, he's just never consistantly tried it.

Study the matches. Add up the number of times Federer wins when he plays an extended baseline rally, when he scrapes and scratches for every ball and plays with utter patience and consistency, just like Nadal. You will be surprised if you actually do this and not just try to get it from your memory. The points stack well in Fed's favor.

There's the secret. Patiently play out the points from the baseline just like Nadal. Hit one more ball and run one more down, cause Federer is really a more consistent ball striker, he just thinks he has to end the point sooner than he should. A whole new way of playing for Fed. Beat Nadal at his own game.

But I doubt Fed will see this, it is too different.

marcRD
04-22-2007, 10:00 PM
Alright, this is going against all of humanity here, but I've studied the matches and I have the key.

Everybody's like, "Well, you can't beat Nadal from the baseline... so you have to do this, this, this, blah, blah, blah."

Here's the real secret: . . . that's exactly how Federer can beat Nadal. Totally the opposite of what you think.

How did Federer beat Pete Sampras? By playing Pete's game. He's got to play Nadal's game to beat Nadal.

No, not going to the net whenever he can. No, not trying to end the points. That's just it. Federer likes to be glamorous and hit winners... he thinks he must hit winners. He's better than Nadal at Nadal's own game, he's just never consistantly tried it.

Study the matches. Add up the number of times Federer wins when he plays an extended baseline rally, when he scrapes and scratches for every ball and plays with utter patience and consistency, just like Nadal. You will be surprised if you actually do this and not just try to get it from your memory. The points stack well in Fed's favor.

There's the secret. Patiently play out the points from the baseline just like Nadal. Hit one more ball and run one more down, cause Federer is really a more consistent ball striker, he just thinks he has to end the point sooner than he should. A whole new way of playing for Fed. Beat Nadal at his own game.

But I doubt Fed will see this, it is too different.

There is no reason to compare this to the Sampras match, this has nothing to do with that match. The longer the rallies the more chanse of Federer mishiting the ball, Federer has a timing based game which is not as secure as Nadals game. Also Federer must hold an amazing length in his points or Nadal will attack and when Nadal attack Federer just cant turn defence into offence like against other players. 1.because it is clay 2.because Nadal just hits with too much spin. Also Nadal never hits UE when he gets the chanse to play offense.

So Federer needs to attack, attack and attack. Just like he did in this match, but all those awful, awful forehands from today needs to be inside the baseline.

marcRD
04-22-2007, 10:02 PM
But I doubt Fed will see this, it is too different.

That is because FEderer and Tony Roch knows alot about tennis and knows how they have to play againt Nadal. Federer knows the formula, he needs to play like today, but without flaws. His forehand needs to be ON, his volleys needs to be ON, his backhand needs to be ON and his serve needs to be ON. He needs to play the perfect match.

D-man
04-22-2007, 10:21 PM
There is no reason to compare this to the Sampras match, this has nothing to do with that match.

The REASON was, that is my idea of how he can win. That is the reason. It is a valid reason, even if you don't agree with it, no?

The longer the rallies the more chanse of Federer mishiting the ball, Federer has a timing based game which is not as secure as Nadals game.

So you would think. My opinion is, the more Federer tries to go for winners the more he mis-hits the ball. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Also Federer must hold an amazing length in his points or Nadal will attack and when Nadal attack Federer just cant turn defence into offence like against other players.

Actually, I think that is Federer's greatest strength.

So Federer needs to attack, attack and attack. Just like he did in this match, but all those awful, awful forehands from today needs to be inside the baseline.

Even though it hasn't worked for match after match. Well, I respect your opinion, but I can't agree with it.

Naide
04-22-2007, 10:24 PM
By going back to 2005, no?

Mimi
04-23-2007, 07:47 AM
:haha: :bowdown: :woohoo: Calm down Stalin.

No ones as dumb as you.

RonE
04-23-2007, 08:16 AM
I think a staircase has a decent chance to do it. Provided he loses his footing, falls down the staircase and breaks a limb or two.

trixtah
04-23-2007, 08:18 AM
Alright, this is going against all of humanity here, but I've studied the matches and I have the key.

Everybody's like, "Well, you can't beat Nadal from the baseline... so you have to do this, this, this, blah, blah, blah."

Here's the real secret: . . . that's exactly how Federer can beat Nadal. Totally the opposite of what you think.

How did Federer beat Pete Sampras? By playing Pete's game. He's got to play Nadal's game to beat Nadal.

No, not going to the net whenever he can. No, not trying to end the points. That's just it. Federer likes to be glamorous and hit winners... he thinks he must hit winners. He's better than Nadal at Nadal's own game, he's just never consistantly tried it.

Study the matches. Add up the number of times Federer wins when he plays an extended baseline rally, when he scrapes and scratches for every ball and plays with utter patience and consistency, just like Nadal. You will be surprised if you actually do this and not just try to get it from your memory. The points stack well in Fed's favor.

There's the secret. Patiently play out the points from the baseline just like Nadal. Hit one more ball and run one more down, cause Federer is really a more consistent ball striker, he just thinks he has to end the point sooner than he should. A whole new way of playing for Fed. Beat Nadal at his own game.

But I doubt Fed will see this, it is too different.

LOL? Outgrinding Rafa from the baseline? Here's a little secret: NO. You know why Roger doesn't get in extended rallies like you say? It's because he can't.

the one who is going to end his streak is the one who plays him when he retires from injury either during or before the match.

RonE
04-23-2007, 08:21 AM
LOL? Outgrinding Rafa from the baseline? Here's a little secret: NO. You know why Roger doesn't get in extended rallies like you say? It's because he can't.


That's exactly right. You only need to see last year's FO to understand why that won't work.

Allstar
04-23-2007, 08:25 AM
Attack his backhand and when you get the chance hit a powerful two handed backhand cross court

Halba
04-23-2007, 08:27 AM
igor andreev?

lisaplenske
04-23-2007, 09:07 AM
To hit many many winners and not much UES.If you can make as many UES as Nadal and much more winners than him,you win.Just be consistent and wait for the good opportunity to hit the good shot.Its difficult cause he brings every ball and never give up.Dont loose your plan game and stay optimistic about your winning chances.You have to use every shot of tennis game and mix it.Dont stay on the base line,he is too strong in that exercice.
If you can have free points with your serve,it would be very good.

oz_boz
04-23-2007, 09:44 AM
It takes someone with a big cc backhand (or lefthander with big forehand), since that is about the only way to get a short ball from Nadal, thanks to his big swing. Add a good serve to avoid getting defensive after the return - maybe serving more on the fh too?

My money is still on Berdych, if he decides not to hand Rafa the first set.

CmonAussie
04-23-2007, 10:51 AM
***
When RAFA`s confidence is high he`s practically unbeatable on clay!!!

~~>> Therefore wait until he`s 26-27yrs old & his body is getting tired, then the clay titan will finally become vulnerable..

Face it: Nadal is psychologically & physically a perfect design for the ultimate clay warrior`@@`!!...

It`s very hard to mimic what Rafa does, because most people would risk serious injury every time they rip a forehand top spinning bomb like him==>> but for Nadal it`s his bread & butter!!!...[of course this unique shot of his is also somewhat of a weakness on faster surfaces]..

madmanfool
04-23-2007, 12:28 PM
watch the first set of Gaudio-Nadal in monte carlo last year.

FluffyYellowBall
04-23-2007, 01:01 PM
Firstly, serve is important on clay. Federer didnt realy attack his second serve and there were a many chances he could have taken to play a return winner or take nadal completely out of court. Im referring to nadal serving at 0-40 and was making a second serve. He didnt take his chances.

Other than that, theres nothing that can be done besides hoping that he'll have an off day or something. Volleying doenst work...Federer (or any of nadals opps) have to risk making a PERFECT volley every time or else theyre screwed. And tehse passing shots one after another can be intimidating.

Reduce UE's....Also a hard thing to do if ur federer. Usually id trust federers shots but yesterday, most of his mishits were due to the fact that he idnt taking the ball from a comfortable position..

TheBoiledEgg
04-23-2007, 01:48 PM
Max Mirnyi will beat him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RonE
04-23-2007, 03:20 PM
Max Mirnyi will beat him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not that he has a realistic chance but if for some crazy reason that were to happen I can imagine a certain poster here having a field day at the GM ;)

dorkino
04-23-2007, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by The Boiled Egg
Max Mirnyi will beat him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And his twin Glenn can do it as well.

RonE
04-23-2007, 03:44 PM
And his twin Glenn can do it as well.

Glenn will beat him but not on the tennis court. My guess is he would use a crowbar :p

dorkino
04-23-2007, 03:53 PM
He's human, so nothing lasts forever with humans. Bad days , pressure and exhaustion come with the opposites on the other side of the court 'll do.

Metis
04-23-2007, 04:03 PM
Remember when Dmitry hid Federer's rackets? I say to beat Rafa on clay you need to steal his underwear. He won't have anything to pull before every point, he will lose his concentration, get frustrated and there goes the match....

:silly:

ezekiel
04-23-2007, 04:28 PM
http://www.411mania.com/sports/other_sports/53448/Across-The-Net:-Nadal%5C%5Cs-67-Wins-on-Clay.htm


Across The Net: Nadal's 67 Wins on Clay
Posted by Dan Martin on 04.23.2007

Nadal moves to 5-0 on Clay vs. Roger Federer. Can anyone or anything stop the clay court juggernaut?

Player of the Week – Rafael Nadal: Not only does Nadal run his all time clay court streak to 67 wins, he does so without dropping a set. Nadal won his 8th Masters Series event by defeating world #1 Roger Federer 6-4, 6-4 at Monte Carlo. Nadal beating Federer on clay is not an upset or a 50-50 pick 'em. Nadal has won 14 sets to Federer's 5 when the two face each other on clay. He is the clear #1 on this surface and potentially setting the stage for a late season duel for #1 in 2007.

Federer leads the 2007 tour with an 18-3 record and 1730 rankings points since January 1. Nadal has now pulled into a solid second for 2007 points with 1505 rankings points in 2007. Nadal has a ton of points to defend through Wimbledon, but Federer also has a lot to defend through the rest of the year. Is it any shock that these two are on top of tennis in 2007 as well as in the 52 week rankings?

Federer can take heart in his 4 wins prior to losing to Nadal. Roger seems to have righted the ship from his Guillermo Canas induced slump. Federer won his four matches in straight sets and seems to be solidly #2 on clay. Still, Federer has to wonder if his French Open title hopes hinge on someone else beating Nadal.

The match seemingly turned on a three game stretch. Nadal was serving at 3-4 15-40 in the first set. If Federer converts either break point, he is serving for the first set. Instead Nadal saves the break points and levels the set at 4-4. Then he broke Federer's serve and served out the first set 6-4. Maybe Federer feels he can peak at the right time and take Nadal down in Paris, but Nadal as of now seems unstoppable on clay.

If not Federer, then who?

Novak Djokovic might be a good candidate. On clay, he'd be an underdog vs. Nadal, but one huge match for this talented player might be enough to topple Rafa.

Mario Ancic, if healthy, has a solid ground game to go with a big serve, athleticism, and strong net play. Ancic could win the match if he hit enough angle volleys to take Nadal out of any rhythm.

Richard Gasquet might also have the talent to play out of his mind and pull an upset.

Canas is an unknown due to his suspension. He is tireless and loves to grind people down. Canas might beat Nadal due to Nadal not having seen him in some time, but Nadal is 2-0 vs. Canas with both wins coming on clay.

Spain's Nicholas Almagro strikes me as the best bet for beating Nadal, but that will require Almagro to be healthy.

Is Nadal a Perfect Clay Court Player?

Maybe… He has a rare combination of strength, speed and stamina. Most clay court players have two of those qualities but not all three. Coria and 2003 French Open Champion Fererro have speed and the ability to hit winners, but are physically fragile. Almagro has strength, but lost in Monte Carlo due to fatigue from his win last week in Spain. If a player can match Nadal's speed, Nadal will over power them. If a player matches his power, he wears them down. Nadal can beat top players with multiple strategies. If one strategy is not working, he can become a tireless backboard and wait for lungs and legs to give out on the other side of the net.

Nadal is also like a pit-bull. At Rome in 2005 and 2006, Nadal fought to his last breath – one more breath than his opponent – to take the title in five sets. Nadal's ability to take hold of any clay court match and not let go is more intimidating than his stroke production or physical gifts. The combination of strength, speed, stamina and relentless determination make Nadal almost unbeatable on a slow surface. Players have adjusted and taken more risks against Nadal on hard courts and indoor courts with a lot of success. However, on clay this strategy is far less viable. Whoever beats Nadal will have earned it. I simply hope injuries and illness are not part of what brings an end to this streak. It would be best for this streak to require a player digging deep and making a Herculean effort rather than winning due to a less than 100% Nadal.

bokehlicious
04-23-2007, 04:30 PM
http://www.411mania.com/sports/other_sports/53448/Across-The-Net:-Nadal%5C%5Cs-67-Wins-on-Clay.htm

Joke is the man :rocker2:


:retard:

Malul
04-23-2007, 05:10 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/skills/5019976.stm

great article from BBC

marcRD
04-23-2007, 06:26 PM
Which player in the open era do you think could beat Nadal?


Borg could do it with a wooden raquet ofcourse. Laver would not stand a chanse if you ask me. Wilander, Lendl would be out powered by Nadal I think. Agassi would be humiliated, he really didnt have any weapons which could take Nadal down.

Guga is kind of interesting with his big baseline game from both sides and great serve, but I think he was a little too slow to hang in there on the baseline rallies against Nadal. I still give him the best chanse among the old champions with modern raquets.

Nadal is the perfect clay courter. There is no flaw in his game on clay, no holes.

A_Skywalker
04-23-2007, 06:30 PM
Glenn will beat him but not on the tennis court. My guess is he would use a crowbar :p

Im not sure, if Glenn can beat Nadal I will :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: him all night and day ;)

seanog
04-23-2007, 06:46 PM
Try to keep your eyes off his ASS

yonexforever
04-23-2007, 06:59 PM
[QUOTE=marcRD;5236338]Which player in the open era do you think could beat Nadal?


Borg could do it with a wooden raquet ofcourse. Laver would not stand a chanse if you ask me. Wilander, Lendl would be out powered by Nadal I think. Agassi would be humiliated, he really didnt have any weapons which could take Nadal down.

Lendl.. OVERPOWERED? I think NOT!
Wilander is more like Nadal than you think, except for the physique.

MisterQ
04-23-2007, 07:13 PM
Which player in the open era do you think could beat Nadal?


Borg could do it with a wooden raquet ofcourse. Laver would not stand a chanse if you ask me. Wilander, Lendl would be out powered by Nadal I think. Agassi would be humiliated, he really didnt have any weapons which could take Nadal down.

Guga is kind of interesting with his big baseline game from both sides and great serve, but I think he was a little too slow to hang in there on the baseline rallies against Nadal. I still give him the best chanse among the old champions with modern raquets.

Nadal is the perfect clay courter. There is no flaw in his game on clay, no holes.

Guga would be a fascinating opponent, since his greatest weapon was arguably the backhand down the line, which goes to Nadal's weaker wing (his backhand). Guga was an expert at working the point until he had an opening for that shot. Guga would have an easier time than Federer does taking the balls to his backhand and driving them down the line instead of into the middle of the court. Nadal would have a harder time running around his backhand to hit a forehand to take control of the point.

Guga also had excellent drop shots and good hands at the net. So, while I'm not saying he would win (who knows?!), some of Nadal's tactics against Federer would be less effective, imo.

jazar
04-23-2007, 07:15 PM
slip him some performance enhancing drugs

RonE
04-23-2007, 08:41 PM
Which player in the open era do you think could beat Nadal?


Borg could do it with a wooden raquet ofcourse. Laver would not stand a chanse if you ask me. Wilander, Lendl would be out powered by Nadal I think. Agassi would be humiliated, he really didnt have any weapons which could take Nadal down.

Guga is kind of interesting with his big baseline game from both sides and great serve, but I think he was a little too slow to hang in there on the baseline rallies against Nadal. I still give him the best chanse among the old champions with modern raquets.

Nadal is the perfect clay courter. There is no flaw in his game on clay, no holes.

It would be interesting to pit him against Bruguerra and Muster two of the most accomplished clay courters in the last decade and a half (at their respective peaks of course).

dj_mercury
04-23-2007, 10:16 PM
Even if it's more difficult on clay, flat powerful strokes towards the angles on the ball he sometimes put a little short when hitting from way behind the line can be a viable solution. It's not important really if you play it to the forhand or the backhand, but is needed to mix the direction to put him in slight confusion. However on clay with the ball bouncing higher you really have to work on the way to hit these kind of balls.
Federer should have also tried to move more time on the forehand when Nadal consistently tried to keep the rallys on the backhand, I don't see what Roger fears in this case, I don't think he concedes too space if he is able to place the ball accurately.
Only problem is that you have to be in a day where you do really few mistakes, the actual Federer is not looking in the form (fitness but also from the play points of view) he needs to be to have any chance against Nadal (and maybe also against other clay court players I fear) on clay.

richie21
04-23-2007, 10:44 PM
If Gasquet had a brain, he could trouble him.

it's not about brain: Gasquet is just not good enough(and especially not strong enough physically) to beat Nadal on clay.

Puschkin
04-23-2007, 10:59 PM
If Gasquet had a brain, he could trouble him.

It is not a question of brain: If he will have sufficient confidence he will do it. That might take some time, though. :p

enzogiovanni
04-23-2007, 11:01 PM
It would be interesting to pit him against Bruguerra and Muster two of the most accomplished clay courters in the last decade and a half (at their respective peaks of course).
if he played against Muster somebody would have to die in the process..

richie21
04-23-2007, 11:01 PM
It is not a question of brain: If he will have sufficient confidence he will do it. That might take some time, though. :p


well,you are contradicting yourself in some sort,Pushkin....

Puschkin
04-23-2007, 11:06 PM
well,you are contradicting yourself in some sort,Pushkin....

Not really. Confidence building takes its time, and I still want to see where Richard goes from Monte Carlo, before I stick out my head even more!

Kolya
04-24-2007, 02:08 AM
It would be interesting to pit him against Bruguerra and Muster two of the most accomplished clay courters in the last decade and a half (at their respective peaks of course).

Muster would be a great match up because we know he has the fitness to stay with Nadal at least.

Seleshfan
04-24-2007, 03:07 AM
-Don't let him dictate rallies, take the ball early and try to push him behind the baseline.

Considering he's always standing 5ft behind the baseline anyway, how much further does one have to "push him" back. I do agree, that if one can get him into the stands, or crashing against the backboard, they'd have a small chance.

calvinhobbes
04-24-2007, 03:18 AM
Nadal´s secret is no secret: an enviable physical condition. His play is based on mechanical reflexes served by a ton of well-trained muscles. He is an autist. Mechanical sub-routines pile-up in every part of his game, beginning with the serving ceremony ("sock,sock, bounce, bounce, ass-pick. . . .etc"). This works marvelously on clay because the time needed to trigger the proper algorithm is more than enough. This is the status which every machine would adore to reach.
How could a man defeat this kind of machine? 90% of players (and occasionally Roger) fall in the mousetrap of trying to copy Nadal´s style, by playing long rallies from behind the baseline. They even hope to fatigue his locomotive pieces by shooting frantically, alternating left and right, to no avail. Nadal enjoys this because he masters the routine of running left and right at full blind speed, getting always the needed time to spit at the most unexpected angles his venomous balls. There is no chance to fatigue him, at least in a three set match. He will take all the regulation time between serves (that´s of course the main reason for the “sock, sock, etc” business), and that´s why every match against him will last eons.
So, nobody can defeat him by moonballing. There are only two schemes left in the vast repertory of possibilities offered by this our splendid sport of tennis.
a). Going to the net If someone is looking for victory, then he most take risks in a superlative scale. Calculated risks, of course. The most famous goers to the net have had an almost infallible instinct of timing and opportunity. When they feel that one of their shots is carrying speed, spin and precision enough to cause at least some small trouble on his opponent, then they get prepared to take the leap forward in the exact moment in which the other has decided his own shot. This is a fraction of a second before the real shot, when it is too late for the shooter to change plans. Their instinct, and of course their experience, will tell them the precise instant for beginning a swift run towards the opponent´s racket. (By the way, I always have considered a red shirt or, for that matter, any contrasting shirt to be much of a disadvantage if one wants to conceal his own movements from the sight of a troubled rival :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Nadal may be defeated –no doubt- by an instinctive and insidious goer to the net.
b). The dropshot This is an extremely valuable resource, especially against base-liners. The drop shutter must extract his shot from nowhere. Surprise and precision are the utmost qualities for this double-edged dagger. A yield of 50% would be considered satisfactory, because there is a surplus in the physical distress imposed on the enemy. Nadal is a fairly good drop shutter but only if his opponent is moonballing.
I think many people will agree on what I´m conveying.. If Rafa is anytime defeated on clay, this would happen through these two weapons.
PS I consider tennis on clay as a sport apart, just as wrestling in the mud, or naked in oil are considered sports apart from greco-roman wrestling discipline. I suspect the aversion of some serious tennis players comes from this. They are very lazy in preparing themselves to undertake this ordeal.

Hendu
04-24-2007, 05:51 AM
davydenko and nalbandian lack the variation to beat him.
gasquet lacks the movement.
karlovic lacks the groundstrokes.
safin lacks the movement and mental capacity.

i think canas and djokovic would stand a fairly good chance though

Nalbandian lacks variation? :lol:

no he doesn't. But I don't think he is the player best suited to beat Nadal.

Nadal will probably lose on clay, the day he feels very tired physically or mentally, and the other player has a great day.

It could be any player, who has a good game for clay.


But if I had to chose a player because of his game, I would say Gaudio.

Very fast, great defender, patient to play long rallies, moves great on clay, has a great backhand so he isn't troubled with Rafa's kick serve, and can attack Rafa's backhand with his down the line backhand. Plus he makes good dropshots.

But Gaudio is far from his best right now.


A lot of you are talking about serving great and volleying... this is clay, so its not that important. A good clay game is needed and thats much more that moonballing.

Coria playing awesome was very, very close to doing it, just a couple of points away from the victory, but he didn't.

bedfordfalls8000
04-24-2007, 09:11 AM
Roger played like s#$% in Monte Carlo Final and lost 46 46 (8 games...more than any other), if he plays better, with whatever tactics he was using in Monte Carlo, he shoud be able to get a set or win.....But then again, confidence is a huge factor.....

trixtah
04-24-2007, 10:07 AM
Max Mirnyi will beat him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No good can come of saying things like this :haha:

marcRD
04-29-2007, 05:08 PM
Canas and Ferrer once again fought down, you just cant fight down Nadal with great claycourt tennis, something else is needed, something more powerful....

I say unleash Dr.Ivo on Nadal.

Snowwy
04-29-2007, 05:12 PM
The only problem is Ivo would have to serve SO well cuz he wouldnt win more than 5 points on Nadal's serve the whole match.

marcRD
04-29-2007, 05:25 PM
The only problem is Ivo would have to serve SO well cuz he wouldnt win more than 5 points on Nadal's serve the whole match.

If Nadal plays like he usualy does that is true. But someting happens when players face superservers who is having a great day and that is that they lose rythm and confidence never getting to play their game. I think Nadal could even lose a game on his serve agaist Karlovic.

kobulingam
04-29-2007, 05:38 PM
Canas showed today that volleying can win points off Nadal. Had Canas had better volleying skills he would have won.

Fortunately for Nadal, he doesn't have to face anyone in today's game with Canas' grinding and with decent volleying skills.

Tom_Bombadil
04-29-2007, 06:02 PM
Let's see. There are two factors people tend to understimate. First of all, Nadal's game on clay has improved since he first began to impress the world, the Nadal from 2005 isn't the Nadal of 2007. And the second one: you name a lot of styles of play that would trouble Nadal's abilities stating that he would lose, but you actually seem to forget that- in an incredible winning streak like that of 72 consecutive victories- he has already play against that kind of players. Just look at the increasing list of victims. There are a lot of styles going in the way of oblivion. He practically beat them all!

Nadal is a beast, put it simply.

- He hits the ball with an increcible top spin that put it heavier than ever on the opponents face, that is like a devil ball. This type of stroke has the advantage that he doesn't make many unforced errors. He kind of plays safe with the top spin drive but, at the same time he has that power to make even winners with the top spin.

- He has the ability to hit the ball flat (that isn't even an ability, in today's tennis the majority of players can hit the ball like crazy going flatter and flatter). But the good thing is that he actually changes the rythm of the play when he wants. He can be dominating with the top spin but when he sees the opportunity hits a flat winner.

- He is never losing a point. What do I mean? He can be defending and suddenly, he changes the rythm and transforms a defensive situation in an offensive one with only one hit. Incredible ability.

- Incredible, out of this Earth backhand deffensive passing shot. All of you know what I'm talking about. The opponent is going to the net after sending a winner to the backhand (actually is a good strategy cause if you send it to his forehand it would even be worse), but I don't know, out of nowhere he hits the ball and produces an incredible passing shot.

- He has this kind of strength, of power on his tennis. It's like if he goes in 5th gear all the time, but when the situation requires it, he suddenly puts the 6th gear and nobody in this world can equate this. Nor even Cañas today (who by the way, demonstrated he's an incredible player who is in an incredible state of form).

And the most important factor it's his 'mental world'. From the first moment in the locker room when the opponent sees him listening to music and sprinting around, jumping all things and all people he encounters on his way, that has a psychological impact on everybody. That continues all throughout the match. Nadal is always telling you at your face, without any kind of shame, looking at your eyes that you're going to need every point demonstrating that your tennis, what you're delivering has a cohesive goal, it's the right strategy, it's going to give you the match.

You can go aggressive, play flat, produce incredible winners... that the guy it's going to be there. It's almost if you could feel the pressure of him saying: so that's the direction you want for the game? Keep that. (that was the worst thing that could happen to Federer on the RG 2006 final, his game went down and never recovered because of that). He makes the opponent look at himself, he makes the opponent doubt, question things. Federer knew that he won't never win Nadal the way he did the first set in the RG Final. So he suddenly forgot the plan he possibly had before the match and his game suddenly went down and never recovered.

EDIT:who will win against him? The possible answer is anybody with an incredible day when he has an off day (or an injury). Sooner than later that streak has to end, it's not ordinary.

madmanfool
04-29-2007, 06:16 PM
i think it's very easy to beat Nadal, all you have to do, is rearrange his water bottles. Trust me, the poor guy will be completely lost:)

Pfloyd
04-29-2007, 06:19 PM
You can also bring a tazer or pepper spray...

World Beater
04-29-2007, 06:54 PM
There is no reason to compare this to the Sampras match, this has nothing to do with that match. The longer the rallies the more chanse of Federer mishiting the ball, Federer has a timing based game which is not as secure as Nadals game. Also Federer must hold an amazing length in his points or Nadal will attack and when Nadal attack Federer just cant turn defence into offence like against other players. 1.because it is clay 2.because Nadal just hits with too much spin. Also Nadal never hits UE when he gets the chanse to play offense.

So Federer needs to attack, attack and attack. Just like he did in this match, but all those awful, awful forehands from today needs to be inside the baseline.

normally you would be correct. However, federer's bh has improved tremendously since 05, and it was not the reason he lost MC final. He was trying to hit his fh very close to the baseline and was so stubborn in his approach that he made many errors. Federer served decently and setup easy points but he just couldnt capitalize on the bp's due to his poor returning and nadal's consistent clutch play.

once nadal pins federer with his spin in the rally, roger cant turn the tables because the spin is to hard for him to control (he doesnt scrap like he should either) the problem with the attack, attack mindset is that federer needs that opportunity. Roger cant return nadal's serve effectively and is on the defense from the word 'go'.

another thing about nadal is his defense. Many critical points in their matches are when federer is dicatating and then nadal's incredible anticipation + speed enables him to turn it around. Instead of hitting to one side or the other, sometimes roger needs to hit the ball straight down the middle of the court or hit the ball hard straight at nadal and not give him the angle when charging the net.

Action Jackson
04-29-2007, 06:59 PM
Muster would be a great match up because we know he has the fitness to stay with Nadal at least.

There are other reasons that are less obvious as well.

Nadal has reinvented the wheel in a sense, he plays as heavy as the top guys did in the 90s, but obviously with more power as these things progress, but as fun as it is, it's impossible to speculate and go into the "what if" syndrome.

ReturnWinner
04-29-2007, 07:04 PM
Karlovic has 0% chances to beat nadal on clay
Canas and Ferrer once again fought down, you just cant fight down Nadal with great claycourt tennis, something else is needed, something more powerful....

I say unleash Dr.Ivo on Nadal.

Rafa = Fed Killa
04-29-2007, 09:45 PM
Borg in his prime with a 6-0,6-0,5-0 head start might have a chance ;)

Byrd
04-29-2007, 11:12 PM
You need to be able to construct points with strong and precise shots and come in with good volleying skills, only Federer can do that consistently when his forehand is working and he bothers to come to the net i.e rome 2006.

marcRD
04-30-2007, 01:57 AM
- He is never losing a point. What do I mean? He can be defending and suddenly, he changes the rythm and transforms a defensive situation in an offensive one with only one hit. Incredible ability.


Here is the most important point of all. This is how Nadal becomes Federer on clay, on other surfaces Federer can turn from defending to a change of rythm or rather using the power another player puts at the ball to transform the situation from defense to offense. He can do this anytime he wants, with half volleys, slices, bh, fh. Anything. Federer cant do this with the same efficiency on clay, specialy against Nadal. Probably because Federers timing goes of by the bounce on clay which is impossible to predict and there is not much power for him to use. Specialy against Nadal the topspin is impossible to contra attack.

Nadal on clay can with his amazing and powerful strokes which he canhit from defensive mode where he can turn any defensive situation to offense. On hardcourt that becomes impossible against powerplayers because of his long swing and the short time he has to hit it. Also Nadal uses sliding to its greatest potential on clay.

marcRD
04-30-2007, 01:59 AM
Karlovic has 0% chances to beat nadal on clay

Probably so, but it would certanly be an interesting match. Very fun to watch. Nadal loves ralles and the more rallies he plays the more secure and confident he becomes, there would be no rallies against Karlovic, that much I can tell.

trixtah
04-30-2007, 03:14 AM
i think it's very easy to beat Nadal, all you have to do, is rearrange his water bottles. Trust me, the poor guy will be completely lost:)

ahaha I haven't seen him doing it so obsessively lately, though

gomeny
04-30-2007, 03:18 AM
ahaha I haven't seen him doing it so obsessively lately, though

Is he still taking a long time between points?

trixtah
04-30-2007, 03:29 AM
Is he still taking a long time between points?

not really, he's pretty quick about it now. And he just kind of places the bottles on the ground now, instead of arranging them like some sort of jigsaw

Frederick16
05-12-2007, 11:52 AM
Hard question because a lot of clay court specialist play the same game as Super-Rafa and they do it 2 times less. So i think it has to be a other type of player.

so i think of Roger or maybe Berdych or Gasquet who is playing everything out of his ass!

i am curious to know who will be the one who predicts the right player :)

Kolya
05-12-2007, 11:54 AM
Kolya today... I wish...

Ivanatis
05-12-2007, 11:56 AM
well as you can see, nobody is even able to get a set against him right now, so speculating who can beat him doesn't make much sense

can just repeat what I posted some time ago; it will probably be no dominating clay court player that beats him, when Rafa will somewhen get injured in a match

adee-gee
05-12-2007, 11:59 AM
Guccione.

Frederick16
05-12-2007, 12:00 PM
Guccione.

yeah someone like him. serving 3 aces a game and then lucky in the tiebreak or something

scarecrows
05-12-2007, 12:06 PM
this guy

http://www.eglobe1.com/word/wp-content/images/others/tennis/Man-Squeeze-Through-Racket.jpg

VolandriFan
05-12-2007, 12:22 PM
They have to be willing to take risks, there's no way anyone can beat him from the back of the court. Slicing out wide on the serve and finishing off the net points by attacking closer to the lines than usual.

Of course there aren't many players that can do this, but Federer is someone who can if he actually works out a game plan, rather than just playing into Nadal's hands.

Frederick16
05-12-2007, 12:24 PM
They have to be willing to take risks, there's no way anyone can beat him from the back of the court. Slicing out wide on the serve and finishing off the net points by attacking closer to the lines than usual.

Of course there aren't many players that can do this, but Federer is someone who can if he actually works out a game plan, rather than just playing into Nadal's hands.

yeah that is what i mean! attack him!

KrisJB
05-12-2007, 12:26 PM
James Blake, even Nadal said he is the only one he is afraid of.

Rgask
05-12-2007, 12:55 PM
Federer or Gasquet......

Federer needs to stop being scared of nadal now....His brain normally cramps against nadal.:o

Gasquet has to be hitting those winners, i-e, he shd. be in attacking mode, and they have't played for some time...Gasquet might be the one....:devil:

Jevel
05-12-2007, 12:58 PM
Federer or Djokovic, both would have to play an aggressive, almost flawless match.

Rgask
05-12-2007, 01:01 PM
i voted 4 gasquet and federer...as they can change the direction of the ball good, with their single handed shots....And when nadal has to chase balls around, he can be forced into a lot of trouble...:devil:

Frederick16
05-12-2007, 01:03 PM
i think that PHM was also really playing well against him last year at RG. if he can do it... Roger and Richard can do it also

Frooty_Bazooty
05-12-2007, 01:05 PM
Gaudio, Federer, Nieminen, Moya, Mathieu, Hewitt, Gasquet, Coria, Stepanek, Ferrer, Grosjean, Puerta, Berdych

these are the people who have taken sets off him in his streak. Of them, Id pick a healthy confident Coria (who knows when that will happen?) or Federer, theyve taken the most sets off him.

adee-gee
05-12-2007, 01:06 PM
James Blake, even Nadal said he is the only one he is afraid of.
Bilbo's grandma has a better chance on clay than Blake.

Frederick16
05-12-2007, 01:13 PM
i hope we can close this thread very soon. and not in 2010 :eek:

Kalliopeia
05-12-2007, 02:03 PM
James Blake, even Nadal said he is the only one he is afraid of.

James Blake beating Rafa on clay? :lol: Come on.

Frederick16
05-12-2007, 02:21 PM
gonzalez will get his chance tomorrow..

RsaibotD
05-12-2007, 02:24 PM
Gonzo can beat him if he play like today

Bumsby
05-12-2007, 02:39 PM
Federer or Djokovic, both would have to play an aggressive, almost flawless match.
I agree. Djokovic made a lot of mistakes yesterday, even at crucial points. Federer has never had a great day against Nadal yet, on clay.

If one of these two players has a great day on clay, they can beat him.

But chances are it's going to take long. You have to have the match-up (which you don't have at every tournament) and a super day from the opponent.

i hope we can close this thread very soon. and not in 2010 :eek:
Exactly! :lol: sometimes I think Nadal will never lose on clay EVER again :p

tcorinna
05-12-2007, 02:46 PM
:wavey: I think Gonzo has a big chance tomorrow :) and also Fede:worship:

krakenzero
05-12-2007, 03:58 PM
:confused: complicated issue... anyway, I miss the days of Kuerten, Rios, Moya, Corretja, Kafelnikov, Costa, Muster, Berasategui, etc. the days of huge competition in clay (anyway, the Ferrero-Gaudio-Coria time wasn't so bad)... I think there are two ways of beating Nadal in clay:

1) Playing extremely offensive and having a glorious day: That's the way Federer had MP against him in Rome 06 and how (I supose) Andreev did beat him in 2005. It takes to adapt the most risky offensive tactics of fast surfaces to a very slow clay court (OR Rome), but it depends a lot on luck and on an extraordinary winners/UEs ratio. I think this is the way players like Federer, Djokovic, Berdych, Blake, Gonzo or even Safin should try. Longer points against Nadal are ussually a lost cause for this players, so this is the way theyoptimize their possibilities.

2) Playing extremely effective from the baseline, avoiding UEs at all: It could sound weird, considering Nadal is by far the best clay player. But that doesn't means he's gonna be always the best at the baseline. Coria in Rome 05 had a lot of options of beating him by playing in the baseline, with a very low amount of UEs ("like Coria 04", I know) and an extreme physical sacrifice. Gaudio en Bs As 05 also defeated Nadal playing frome the baseline, and that's the strategy used by Moya to face him too (and Moya should know Nadal a little bit, right?). This way needs a LOT of speed and the obligation of not giving ANY free point (sorry Gato), and it requires -with no exception- a good weapon from the baseline. Having said that, there's a very little group of players that could use this strategy. Cañas of course, also Davydenko, Ferrero, a recovered Gaudio, maybe Volandri in one of his "hell-of-a-week", maybe Almagro... it's a very short list in fact.

Anyway, if Nadal it's in a great day, he could make any of this strategies useless. So the player could use some of Rafa's help in his mission:devil: ...

edited: GO KOLYA!

neme6
05-12-2007, 04:05 PM
Fed and Gasquet because of his backhand, he can really gives Nadal trouble, but I doubt that's gonna happen anytime soon.

aramis
05-12-2007, 04:09 PM
From what I saw in the Rome final I think a fully confident Coria has the best shot at Nadal, consistently. A lot of the other guys mentioned are big hitters who have to play perfectly to have a chance (and that includes Fed). I think Coria is the only guy who has good chances to beat Nadal by just playing his normal game.

Fully confident Ferrero? Maybe. JC was a completely different player in 01-03 and Nadal never faced him. Even then, JC was kind of a sporadic player, but he had twice as much power as Coria, and a mad forehand which might cause Rafa some pain.

Sigh, If only Guga were still around. But I'm sure he will get a WC for RG, and he is a player who gets inspired there, like in 2004. He just might do it.

Snowwy
05-12-2007, 04:12 PM
James Blake, even Nadal said he is the only one he is afraid of.

You do realise were talking about clay, right?

krakenzero
05-12-2007, 05:16 PM
:eek: :eek: I forgot Gasquet! He's got some velocity and some weapons from the baseline to give trouble to Nadal.

P.D: Is anyone seeing the great job Davydenko is doing against Rafa?? I think he's applying the 2nd strategy, and Nadal isn't very confortable with it. Go PMK! I want to see a 3rd set today!

DDrago2
05-12-2007, 05:38 PM
by tiring him down in best-of-5-match

and by using every chance to press him from the net

for Federer : to for a change do everything in your power to win

Frooty_Bazooty
05-12-2007, 05:39 PM
niko just won the second, theyre into a 3rd

martine2
05-12-2007, 05:42 PM
OMG this is scary :eek: :eek: :eek:

This Davydenko is really good! :eek:

Wannabeknowitall
05-12-2007, 05:45 PM
You have to do some acting on the court, Sampras style.
Davydenko doesn't look like a tennis player.
He looks like he just got over a life threatening illness.
He acts like he's could possibly die right out there on the court but the guy is a workaholic.
He has little to no weakness in his groundstrokes.
He might not have the best of volleys but because he doesn't, it gives him the ability to respect Rafa's passing ability compared to most player.
Davydenko definately doesn't get the credit he deserves.
He worked amazingly hard for that set.

Action Jackson
04-04-2009, 10:30 AM
Is this solution more secretive than the Coca Cola recipe.

ORGASMATRON
04-23-2009, 02:46 AM
I noticed some things that Djokovic did to Nadal which worked well at times. Im thinking if he employs that game plan even better and catch Nadal on an off day he might win. Maybe Murray can use this in the future as well.

1) Catch him on an off day or you have no chance no matter what game plan you employ.
2)Make a lot of first serves. I noticed when NAdal isnt playing well and feels the pressure his return off the first serve falls short. At this point you must either go for the winner or at least get into a dominant position. But against NAdal there is not really such thing as being in a dominant position on clay because he can come back into the point from outside the court. So its better to hit the clean winner.
3)On the return i also noticed Nadal's second serve was weak under pressure. Same thing here, either go for the return winner or at least get into a dominant position.
4)From the back of the court i noticed he used the double fisted BH to great effect when he really went it for it cross court. So it would be good to draw NAdal out of the court with an angled FH and when he goes down the line then go for the BH cross court.
5)The same can be done on the BH side. Draw NAdal out of the court with a cross court BH and then go for the kill with the FH. The idea is to draw him out of the court on both sides to open the court. Fed could never do this well from the BH cos his one hander simply wasnt solid enough.
6)Go to the net to finish points. Djoker did this well in MC.
7) Never give up, cos he wont.

Now get the Djoker and Murray to this forum :)

fast_clay
04-23-2009, 02:51 AM
be intimate with rafael in front of the camera... you should touch him twice then three times... it is here where he looks most uncomfortable... i haven't seen him produce any quality at all here...

casabe
04-23-2009, 02:58 AM
Nalbandian said today that his gameplan in a possible match against Rafa in Barcelona is play like if he were on hard court and hit clear winners from everywhere

prima donna
04-23-2009, 03:06 AM
Get out of here.

Pfloyd
04-23-2009, 03:08 AM
:retard:

ORGASMATRON
04-23-2009, 03:09 AM
Nalbandian said today that his gameplan in a possible match against Rafa in Barcelona is play like if he were on hard court and hit clear winners from everywhere

I dont know if you are joking but thats basically what you have to do. Nalby would be one of the few guys that could actually do that. But he is too unpredictable.

casabe
04-23-2009, 03:18 AM
I dont know if you are joking but thats basically what you have to do. Nalby would be one of the few guys that could actually do that. But he is too unpredictable.

I not joking at all...I read it today in a local newspaper web site...if you want I can link it but it is in spanish.

ORGASMATRON
04-23-2009, 03:26 AM
I not joking at all...I read it today in a local newspaper web site...if you want I can link it but it is in spanish.

Well Nalby at his best has a good a chance as anyone against Nadal on clay because he has some of the best ground strokes of all time. HE still has to win one more match right? I hope he goes through to meet Nadal. But like i said you never know with him.

casabe
04-23-2009, 03:34 AM
Well Nalby at his best has a good a chance as anyone against Nadal on clay because he has some of the best ground strokes of all time. HE still has to win one more match right? I hope he goes through to meet Nadal. But like i said you never know with him.

Yes he has to beat Almagro, and every time he has a chance of playing nadal on clay he loose early. He should have won that semi final against Federer in 2006 RG...he was outplaying roger and had to retire:(

ORGASMATRON
04-23-2009, 03:44 AM
Yes he has to beat Almagro, and every time he has a chance of playing nadal on clay he loose early. He should have won that semi final against Federer in 2006 RG...he was outplaying roger and had to retire:(

Yeah i remember that match. I guess Dave wasnt fit enough lol.

fast_clay
04-23-2009, 04:03 AM
next year, roger will play so crap that he'll be paying €3.55/hour to be nalbandian's shadow... a role that he is said to been prepared to not work hard for...

ORGASMATRON
04-23-2009, 04:13 AM
next year, roger will play so crap that he'll be paying €3.55/hour to be nalbandian's shadow... a role that he is said to been prepared to not work hard for...

Wrong thread.

heartbroken
04-23-2009, 04:18 AM
Get a ballboy to move Rafa's water bottles around when he's not looking. Might throw him off just enough to steal a set from him...

ORGASMATRON
04-23-2009, 04:32 AM
Get a ballboy to move Rafa's water bottles around when he's not looking. Might throw him off just enough to steal a set from him...

Or even better. Tell him he should hurry up between points and that he cant grunt harder when the going gets tough.

MalwareDie
04-23-2009, 04:39 AM
Follow Nalbandian's general tactics against Mugboar.

dusk
04-23-2009, 04:51 AM
Get a ballboy to move Rafa's water bottles around when he's not looking. Might throw him off just enough to steal a set from him...

The only true plan:lol::lol:
That's what I'd do:cool:

Action Jackson
06-08-2010, 03:55 AM
Get a ballboy to move Rafa's water bottles around when he's not looking. Might throw him off just enough to steal a set from him...

Didn't work this year.

heya
06-08-2010, 04:10 AM
Do what Roddick did. Destroy your own life.
Make Federer as happy as possible.
Badmouth opponents,
then bore Nadal until he wacks his knee to get out of his coma state (like the Miami embarrassment).

careergrandslam
06-08-2010, 04:47 AM
kick rafa in the balls before the match.
:lol:

paseo
06-08-2010, 05:15 AM
Play better than him. Simple, really.

General Suburbia
06-08-2010, 05:53 AM
Do what Roddick did. Destroy your own life.
:haha:

Anyways, I wish Nalbandian was at his peak. I think peak Nalbandian would be more trouble for Nadal than Del Potro. Davydenko too, maybe.

Action Jackson
06-08-2010, 06:54 AM
:haha:

Anyways, I wish Nalbandian was at his peak. I think peak Nalbandian would be more trouble for Nadal than Del Potro. Davydenko too, maybe.

That hasn't happened for years.

General Suburbia
06-08-2010, 06:55 AM
That hasn't happened for years.
Like I said, wishful thinking. Might as well accept Nadal as king.

ossie
06-08-2010, 10:23 AM
how indeed

Commander Data
06-08-2010, 11:08 AM
Play super agressive Tennis from the Baseline, be in god-mode, stay there, do not choke.

Possible Players:

Federer -> Rom Final 2006
Del Potro-> US Open 2009
Söderling -> RG 2008

JolánGagó
06-08-2010, 11:26 AM
Play super agressive Tennis from the Baseline, be in god-mode, stay there, do not choke.

Possible Players:

Federer -> Rom Final 2006
Del Potro-> US Open 2009
Söderling -> RG 2008

or, in shorter words: get him injured. that's pretty much the only way.

BTW since when is USO clay? :scratch:

marcRD
06-08-2010, 11:50 AM
Next year will be a big one for Nadal, it is the year he can officialy get the title as greatest claycourter of all time, or atleast the one with most achievments on clay. I think his health may be the only doubt.

Commander Data
06-08-2010, 12:15 PM
or, in shorter words: get him injured. that's pretty much the only way.

BTW since when is USO clay? :scratch:

Do you believe fit Nadal is unbeatable?
Was Nadal injured in Rom 2006?

@Sweet Cleopatra
06-08-2010, 12:20 PM
Do you believe fit Nadal is unbeatable?
Was Nadal injured in Rom 2006?

I believe he is 99.9% unbeatable on clay :cool:

Commander Data
06-08-2010, 12:27 PM
I believe he is 99.9% unbeatable on clay :cool:

okay, elaborate on the 0.01%! What does it take to make the 0.01% work?

Har-Tru
06-08-2010, 12:42 PM
Do you believe fit Nadal is unbeatable?
Was Nadal injured in Rom 2006?

No, he was unbeaten. ;)

Commander Data
06-08-2010, 12:47 PM
No, he was unbeaten. ;)

Yeah but it does not seem right to call somebody unbeatable that faces MP.
It took only one more point to beat him and it is certainly not impossible to score one point against Nadal ;)

Priam
06-08-2010, 01:18 PM
Perhaps Fed's time has passed for him to beat Nadal at RG. The near-impossible task has been passed on to the big boys: Sod, Delpo, Dave.

christallh24
06-08-2010, 04:47 PM
He's been beaten. There is no mystery here. Catch him a bad day, most probably.

Start da Game
06-08-2010, 05:14 PM
no secret here........you know beforehand what's coming at you when you face nadal on clay and you also know what's the right approach against him........just like sampras on grass - you know what's coming and hitting you, but what can you do?

it's all about the execution.......fed, del potro, djokovic, davydenko, murray, soderling etc. they all know what's the successful strategy of taking down nadal on clay.......just that they can never execute it when nadal is healthy.......

the strategy is quite clear - you should take a high risk approach and try to hit through rafael and should be able to finish points at the net.......only if you can do those two things with high regularity, you might have a chance of succeeding when rafa is fit.......

federica can finish points at the net by dancing down on the net but cannot hit through rafael.......del potro and djokovic can hit with him toe to toe but cannot finish points at the net.......hence those 3 have a chance of beating nadal only when he is not fit........

samanosuke
06-08-2010, 05:17 PM
You must win first set .Then he usually retires

Filo V.
06-08-2010, 05:24 PM
Hope he's injured.

Haelfix
06-09-2010, 09:36 AM
I'd take Nalbandians backhhand. Its probably the only shot in tennis that actually bothers Rafa when he's doing his cc rallying, b/c of how early he takes it and how wide he can strech him. Even when he's playing lefties, he doesn't seem as perturbed as he is against that shot.

I'd take Federer's forehand during his prime. There might be flatter or more powerful hitters that could in principle trouble Rafa more, but the variety is still too much to pass.

I have yet to see anyone's net game bother Rafa, and I don't know many people in tennis history that can handle 3200 rpm 90mph topspin. So I don't know, maybe Rafter or someone like that.

Movement. Amusingly I pick Lleyton Hewitt during his prime. Its less about precise footwork or raw speed against Rafa b/c he often gives you a decent amount of time, and more someone who like him is willing to give 100% every point and can grind it out for hours. Also I always felt that Lleyton moved well on clay unlike a lot of other speedsters.

Serve: Definitely Karlovic. Again its a no brainer here. Flat, powerful, weird trajectory and still deadly on clay.

Return: Big one. Andy Murray on 1st serves, James Blake on 2nd serves. Blake b/c of the aggressiveness and outright winner potential, Murray b/c he handles spinny serves so well.

Sophocles
06-09-2010, 11:46 AM
Murray b/c he handles spinny serves so well.

Excellent observation. This is probably the main reason Murray can trouble Nadal.

A_Skywalker
06-09-2010, 11:47 AM
How to beat Nadal on clay?
Punch him in the face, break his leg, his left arm and you may still win one or two games ;)

born_on_clay
06-09-2010, 03:01 PM
How to beat Nadal on clay?
Punch him in the face, break his leg, his left arm and you may still win one or two games ;)

:haha:

good one

DJ Soup
06-09-2010, 04:33 PM
If Nadal is the anti-Federer, then Del Potro is the anti-Nadal

mark73
06-09-2010, 04:53 PM
1)Nadal remains on one side of the court all match.
2)Dig a huge hole covering the entire side of his side of the court. The hole should be at least 2 meters deep.
3)Put obstacles in the way, such as boulders and scorpions and other nasty stuff.

His opponent will now be a SLIGHT favourite.

andy neyer
06-09-2010, 05:41 PM
"Accidentally" kick all his water bottles when you change sides.

Everko
06-09-2010, 05:43 PM
maybe try some voodoo curses and pray. But even then your god will side with rafa

Mint Chip
06-10-2010, 02:05 AM
Today's player lacks an actual gameplan on how to defeat Nadal without ballbashing him off the court like Soderling did last year and people don't really count it because he was "injured". When this era actually knows how to beat him and other players that play similiar to him, the clay season would be more interesting than this year and the years before. Right now there is no solution to Nadal's fall on clay

born_on_clay
06-10-2010, 09:23 AM
Rafa's stats on clay:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8479/72983153.jpg

So I believe there are 3 possible situations when you can beat Rafa on clay:

1. he's got blisters on his foot and can barely move
2. his knees are in terrible condition, he plays with pain and barely moves
3. he's run out of gas (see: Hamburg 07 final and Madrid 09 final)

:wavey:

careergrandslam
06-10-2010, 10:26 AM
Rafa's stats on clay:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8479/72983153.jpg

So I believe there are 3 possible situations when you can beat Rafa on clay:

1. he's got blisters on his foot and can barely move
2. his knees are in terrible condition, he plays with pain and barely moves
3. he's run out of gas (see: Hamburg 07 final and Madrid 09 final)

:wavey:

hey can u tell me the stats for nadal's:

1) best of 3-set record on clay?
2) best of 5-set record on clay? i have it as 57-1 inclduing all davis cup best of 5-set matches on clay.
3) bagel sets (6-0) W-L on clay?
4) breadstick sets (6-1) W-L on clay?

born_on_clay
06-10-2010, 01:04 PM
hey can u tell me the stats for nadal's:

1) best of 3-set record on clay?
2) best of 5-set record on clay? i have it as 57-1 inclduing all davis cup best of 5-set matches on clay.
3) bagel sets (6-0) W-L on clay?
4) breadstick sets (6-1) W-L on clay?

hard to say right now, but I'll search and if I find anything I'll post it here :D

abraxas21
05-06-2011, 04:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCKkphojm7Y

as it is shown, most of the spanish players enter the court already mentally defeated. with that attitude it's no wonder the nickname of 'spanish bitches' has sticked around here. berdych's comments are just pathetic which further reflect what a mug he's on and out of the court. the only one with belief and self confidence is andy murray. unsurprinsingly, he's the only one who has taken a set out of nadal this season.

now, when a hardcourt player who has never particularly shined on clay like murray has been the only player who has challenged nadal thus far in this clay season, you've got to wonder not only about how muggy today's clay court era is (which it is quite muggy, i won't deny that) but also about the (lack of) self confidence that most of today's clay courters have when they play nadal.


discuss

Action Jackson
05-06-2011, 04:15 AM
Come on man you know this thread has been done before.

Clay Death
05-06-2011, 04:15 AM
memo to the mods:

please drag this thread outside and have a very large farm animal with serious intcontinence issues shit on it repeatedy for 3 days.

Action Jackson
05-06-2011, 04:17 AM
Not looking likely this season, even when not close to playing well.

Smoke944
05-06-2011, 04:19 AM
memo to the mods:

please drag this thread outside and have a very large farm animal with serious intcontinence issues shit on it repeatedy for 3 days.

:help: :scared: