Nadal also underperforms against Federer on clay [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal also underperforms against Federer on clay

marcRD
04-18-2007, 03:12 PM
In my opinion not only does Federer underperform against Nadal, NAdal too doesnt play up to his level against Federer on clay. The sets he lost against Federer in RG 06 and 05 where completely horrible with lots of unchacteristic UEs from Nadals side and when he tries to serve out sets he often chokes badly.
e often seems nervous for some reason, maybe because of his huge respect for Federer.

All matches between these 2 incredible players on clay have been terrible to watch. Maybe the rome final was good for entertainment, but even there I think Federer played closer to his best than Nadal. I cant remember watching a set where both players played their best tennis at the same time on clay.

Anyway I think Fedfans simply dont get it, Federer doesnt really have weapons to win against Nadal on clay, atleast not from the baseline. You cant expect Nadal to play as bd as in the 1st set in RG a whole match, one of the worst sets I have seen Nadal play in my life. When Nadal gets on fire he just doesnt miss and leaves no holes in his defense. Specialy when the ball gets to Federers backhand I think there is nothing for Federer to do, so he tries to hit it harder and most often misshits it. Federer would need an ultrapowerful consistant crossbackhand to break down Nadals defense on clay, you cant defeat him only with your forehand.

The only thing I can think of is constantly going to the net, even if this would need a truly powerful serve and truly great approach shots. Remember that Rome was a fast clay court so Federer would need to play even better than ROme and hope Nadal is not on his best form aswell.

Nadal on clay is like Federer on grass: NOTHING YOU CAN DO

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 03:17 PM
:retard:

MTF never underperforms when it comes to taking :bs:

Beforehand
04-18-2007, 03:18 PM
Well then.

marcRD
04-18-2007, 03:24 PM
Well that is just my way to see things. Maybe Im wrong, but I am atleast not biased as I prefer Federers game than Nadals.

I think all Federer fans need to see the 1st set in RG and the 2nd set in RG 2005 again and you would see that Fed won those sets because Nadal was underperforming.

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 03:25 PM
Of course, because when Andreev defeated him I bet Andreev made a miracle on court. Because... "you can't do anything". :haha:

marcRD
04-18-2007, 03:28 PM
Of course, because when Andreev defeated him I bet Andreev made a miracle on court. Because... "you can't do anything". :haha:

Oh please, that is like talking mentioning the match where Rochus had 4 match points against Federer on grass.

We all knowthat when Fed is his ninja mode on grass or even hardcourt and Nadal is the beast on clay no one can do anything against them.

bokehlicious
04-18-2007, 03:36 PM
What a :retard:ed thread...

maconick
04-18-2007, 03:40 PM
What a :retard:ed thread...

very true

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 03:41 PM
Oh please, that is like talking mentioning the match where Rochus had 4 match points against Federer on grass.

We all knowthat when Fed is his ninja mode on grass or even hardcourt and Nadal is the beast on clay no one can do anything against them.

:bs:

Andreev won, Rochus lost.

The_Nadal_effect
04-18-2007, 03:44 PM
Nadal on clay is like Federer on grass: NOTHING YOU CAN DO

That's quite true, no?
And that is why I am a little worried about that upcoming 'test of talent' promotional monster called 'Battle of Surfaces', as it mixes both of them in the most childish manner and are we to conclude that whosoever wins the match is more talented than the other...or what? Expect the corporates to rake in the moolah at any.given.chance.

On the outside it seems like fun which I hope it will be, but those who conclude talent from that contest can't distinguish God from Geronimo!

marcRD
04-18-2007, 03:47 PM
Well, maybe I expressed myself in the wrong way, but there is too much bullshit among Federer fans who think Federer is losing against Nadal because he chokes and doesnt play good because of mental issues against Nadal. If Federer plays good it doesnt matter in what surface and against who he plays, he will win against anyone when he is in the ninja mode.

That is just not true against Nadal on clay (probably true against anyone else) and he didnt win those sets against NAdal on monte carlo, RG 05,06 because he was in ninja mode but because Nadal was not in THE BEAST form.

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 03:51 PM
Ninja mode? Talk about embarassing yourself. Now I know the reason Fedtards are disliked. There's no such thing as that in tennis or any other sport. :cuckoo:

Federer plays badly because of match-up issues, it's very simple.

bokehlicious
04-18-2007, 03:51 PM
That is just not true against Nadal on clay (probably true against anyone else) and he didnt win those sets against NAdal on monte carlo, RG 05,06 because he was in ninja mode but because Nadal was not in THE BEAST form.

Fed on a true ninja mode day would spank Nadal even on clay... But that's unlikely to happen this year I'm afraid :o

marcRD
04-18-2007, 03:54 PM
Federer plays badly because of match-up issues, it's very simple.

Yes, that is what I have been saying. THe way Nadal plays tennis on clay makes it close to impossible for Federer to win if Nadal is playing his best tennis.

marcRD
04-18-2007, 03:57 PM
Ninja mode? Talk about embarassing yourself. Now I know the reason Fedtards are disliked. There's no such thing as that in tennis or any other sport. :cuckoo:


Cmon, take it easy man. I am not writting an article for the new york times, everyone in the forum knows what Fed in ninja mode means, there is no reason to moan about that.

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 03:57 PM
Yes, that is what I have been saying. THe way Nadal plays tennis on clay makes it close to impossible for Federer to win if Nadal is playing his best tennis.

For Federer it's hard, but for guys like Andreev Nadal isn't a bad match-up, so your theory that Nadal on clay = Federer on grass is flawed. Federer defeats even bad match-ups on grass.

marcRD
04-18-2007, 04:00 PM
For Federer it's hard, but for guys like Andreev Nadal isn't a bad match-up, so your theory that Nadal on clay = Federer on grass is flawed. Federer defeats even bad match-ups on grass.

Andreev? Are you fcng serious?

He beat NAdal 2 years ago in valencia when Nadal had been playing for many weeks in a row and was tired.

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 04:02 PM
Andreev? Are you fcng serious?

He beat NAdal 2 years ago in valencia when Nadal had been playing for many weeks in a row and was tired.

Excuses excuses. He won and that's what matters.

The_Nadal_effect
04-18-2007, 04:05 PM
Excuses excuses. He won and that's what matters.

How come you didn't have the same attitude when Canas won against Fed twice in a row?:p

marcRD
04-18-2007, 04:06 PM
Excuses excuses. He won and that's what matters.

Do you seriously think Andreev would take a set from Nadal today?

Bobby
04-18-2007, 04:08 PM
very true

Are you sure that's a good first post? Try posting something that makes sense before bashing someone else.

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 04:08 PM
How come you didn't have the same attitude when Canas won against Fed twice in a row?:p

Which attitude? I never make any excuses when a player loses.

Do you seriously think Andreev would take a set from Nadal today?

Give Igor some time and rhythm and you'll see.

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 04:09 PM
Are you sure that's a good first post? Try posting something that makes sense before bashing someone else.

He did tell the truth, so...

Loremaster
04-18-2007, 04:12 PM
Excuses excuses. He won and that's what matters.

And Roger lost to Ancic hehehehe on grass in 2002 and what ?? he wasn't the same Roger as he is now, as well as Nadal wasn't the same Nadal in Valencia when Adnreev won. They both have amazing winning streaks but Rafa winning Streak is harder to keeep because he plays like 4-5 clay tourney to Federer two grass tourney with higher possiblity to lose considering that 3 out of 5 are TMS and GS

sodman12
04-18-2007, 04:13 PM
Well that is just my way to see things. Maybe Im wrong, but I am atleast not biased as I prefer Federers game than Nadals.


Omg that is the dumbest thing I think I have heard in a while.

A bias is a prejudice in a general or specific sense, usually in the sense for having a preference to one particular point of view or ideological perspective.


Thats the definition just FYI.

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 04:15 PM
And Roger lost to Ancic hehehehe on grass in 2002 and what ?? he wasn't the same Roger as he is now, as well as Nadal wasn't the same Nadal in Valencia when Adnreev won. They both have amazing winning streaks but Rafa winning Streak is harder to keeep because he plays like 4-5 clay tourney to Federer two grass tourney with higher possiblity to lose considering that 3 out of 5 are TMS and GS

Wrong. Nadal never changed, he has always been this moonballer. Federer at the time (2002) used to S&V all the time in Wimbledon.

Loremaster
04-18-2007, 04:16 PM
Wrong. Nadal never changed, he has always been this moonballer. Federer at the time (2002) used to S&V all the time in Wimbledon.

in 2003 he also served and volley and what ?? S&V is perfectly suited to grass so he should won but he didn't

And Nadal has changed since 2005 if he can't see it it is your problem not mine

guga2120
04-18-2007, 04:19 PM
i don't think Nadal underperforms against Federer on clay, Federer is just a very good clay courter, he moves as well as anybody on it, he actually outplayed Nadal in Rome, Fed just choked it away, which Federer can do.

Nadal really only played one bad set against Federer on clay last year, the first set at Roland Garros.

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 04:21 PM
in 2003 he also served and volley and what ?? S&V is perfectly suited to grass so he should won but he didn't

And Nadal has changed since 2005 if he can't see it it is your problem not mine

He who? :rolleyes:

No, in 2003 he didn't serve and volley.

He's moonballing higher? Maybe.

Loremaster
04-18-2007, 04:23 PM
He who? :rolleyes:

No, in 2003 he didn't serve and volley.

He's moonballing higher? Maybe.

Yeah Cool

guga2120
04-18-2007, 04:26 PM
Wrong. Nadal never changed, he has always been this moonballer. Federer at the time (2002) used to S&V all the time in Wimbledon. Federer did not use S&V at Wimbledon in 2002, he won in 03 staying back primarily, i remember Sampras saying how good he was, but he was suprised he stayed back so much.

Loremaster
04-18-2007, 04:28 PM
Federer did not use S&V at Wimbledon in 2002, he won in 03 staying back primarily, i remember Sampras saying how good he was, but he was suprised he stayed back so much.

it only shows how ignorant GlennMirnyi is he doesn't know but he is making points as he knows :haha:

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 04:30 PM
Federer did not use S&V at Wimbledon in 2002, he won in 03 staying back primarily, i remember Sampras saying how good he was, but he was suprised he stayed back so much.

2003 was primarily the first year Federer stopped S&V heavily on grass. In 2002 he was S&V off almost all first serves.

it only shows how ignorant GlennMirnyi is he doesn't know but he is making points as he knows :haha:

You're the ignorant here fanboy. You spill out :bs: from matches you haven't even watched.

Loremaster
04-18-2007, 04:34 PM
2003 was primarily the first year Federer stopped S&V heavily on grass. In 2002 he was S&V off almost all first serves.



You're the ignorant here fanboy. You spill out :bs: from matches you haven't even watched.

Yeah Cool
I wonder only if you have seen any tennis match at all because your comments suggest that only thing you do is watching scoreboard

Loremaster
04-18-2007, 04:39 PM
2003 was primarily the first year Federer stopped S&V heavily on grass. In 2002 he was S&V off almost all first serves.



You're the ignorant here fanboy. You spill out :bs: from matches you haven't even watched.

Yeah Cool
I wonder only if you have seen any tennis match at all because your comments suggest that only thing you do is watching scoreboard

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 04:51 PM
No, I'm not you. When someone compares Federer's loss to Ancic in 2002 to Nadal's loss to Andreev in 2005 that only means you a) know nothing about tennis and b) you never watched tennis before 2006.

Naide
04-18-2007, 04:55 PM
I'm still upset that GlennMirnyi did not win the ACC.
It was cakewalk draw for him.

Loremaster
04-18-2007, 04:56 PM
No, I'm not you. When someone compares Federer's loss to Ancic in 2002 to Nadal's loss to Andreev in 2005 that only means you a) know nothing about tennis and b) you never watched tennis before 2006.

Yeah Cool
But I was talking about you not about myself maybe go and ask you parents if you can use computer because your posts are childish

GlennMirnyi
04-18-2007, 05:09 PM
I'm still upset that GlennMirnyi did not win the ACC.
It was cakewalk draw for him.

Cakewalks are Nadal's draws.

Yeah Cool
But I was talking about you not about myself maybe go and ask you parents if you can use computer because your posts are childish

Childish? Just because you can't make a decent point and show absolutely no tennis knowledge you come here to say it's childish? :haha: How old are you? 14? Stop going to atptennis.com to view H2Hs so you can try making flawed points. :lol:

Of, I forgot, you're the one who says Davydenko shouldn't be a top 10. Of course, because someone who has one SF and two QFs of slams in the last 12 months is surely not a top 10 player.

Naide
04-18-2007, 05:15 PM
Cakewalks are Nadal's draws.





Don't be so modest.
Number 1 place was for you.

Loremaster
04-18-2007, 05:38 PM
Cakewalks are Nadal's draws.



Childish? Just because you can't make a decent point and show absolutely no tennis knowledge you come here to say it's childish? :haha: How old are you? 14? Stop going to atptennis.com to view H2Hs so you can try making flawed points. :lol:

Of, I forgot, you're the one who says Davydenko shouldn't be a top 10. Of course, because someone who has one SF and two QFs of slams in the last 12 months is surely not a top 10 player.

Why you are reaveling your ways of following tennis.

I said he shoudn't be Top10 that's my opnion are you comunist to forbid having different opnions than yours??

Andre'sNo1Fan
04-18-2007, 08:47 PM
Nice to see Glenn showing his obsession for Rafa again. And to the thread starter, so true ;)

GlennMirnyi
04-19-2007, 01:52 AM
Why you are reaveling your ways of following tennis.

I said he shoudn't be Top10 that's my opnion are you comunist to forbid having different opnions than yours??

What a narrow view of history. There were many periods of dictatorships, not only communism.

That said, you are just saying :bs:. It's not about not accepting opinions, it's about taking facts as if they didn't exist. A guy that has 1 SF and 2 QFs of slams, without even mentioning the TMS he won, deserves the top 10, doesn't matter what you think about it. Results = facts.

Just Cause
05-01-2007, 01:12 AM
I would agree, I think Nadal played high level tennis against anyone other than Federer who has always choked against Nadal on clay (7-2 H2H).

marcRD
05-01-2007, 02:26 PM
I think Nadal played his best match against Federer in montecarlo this year. Really dictating the match and not gving Fed any other otion then go for highrisk shots. It seems he is losing his respect for Federer on clay and that is not good for Federer.

I would like to see Federer play against Nadal when all his weapons are working perfectly, still then I think Nadal might still only lose 1 set in a best of 5 match.

marcRD
05-01-2007, 02:31 PM
He who? :rolleyes:

No, in 2003 he didn't serve and volley.

He's moonballing higher? Maybe.

I doubt this guy has ever seen a Nadal match on clay. Spcialy not this year. Conchita Martinez and Pat Shnyder moonballs, Nadal has some of the most powerful strokes on clay, he constantly dictates matches from the back of the court and I would say he is better than most to 100 players volleying too. This eyar he is very aggresive...

rafa_maniac
05-01-2007, 02:48 PM
Basically I agree marc, Nadal has picked up this clay season from last even and now when he is really 'on', I honestly don't think he can be beaten on clay by anyone whose out there at the moment. All of the players who can give Nadal grief off clay such as Federer, Berdych etc... have their greatest weapons such as serve, pace of groundstroke and volleying, muted on clay. But a traditional grinder won't do the trick either, you need to have some sort of weapons. Nadal seems to be this perfectly engineered clay machine who can deal massive damage off the simple grinding groundstokes usually associated with claycourters. He also has amazing tenacity, speed, and the ability to keep it up hour after hour. Federer can't beat him from the back of the court on clay, his only hope really is to play absolutely flawess go-for-broke tennis, and even then, if Nadal is playing at his best it may not be enough. Mainly, Nadal doesn't LET his oponents play that way. Rogi's losses to Nadal on clay aside, mentally this is enough of a weight on Rogi's mind that he knows he just HAS to make something work on his terms fairly early in every point. This obviously gives the impression that he is "choking", "rushing", "spraying balls wildy" and "choosing the wrong tactics". But Roger is not dumb, he has played Rafa enough times on clay to know exactly what he has to do, it's just a matter of somehow having the perfect day. I do think for some reason he might get Rafa at Rome this year ...

Neely
05-01-2007, 04:03 PM
2003 was primarily the first year Federer stopped S&V heavily on grass. In 2002 he was S&V off almost all first serves.
I believed he simply got better at the net and in his volleys, not going there after a stupid ball. Overall he still had more than enough net approaches, I don't think he stayed back that much as guga2120 said.

Federer net approaches
2002: 44
2003: 42, 38, 43, 53, 28, 39, 29

Just Cause
05-02-2007, 12:41 AM
I doubt this guy has ever seen a Nadal match on clay. Spcialy not this year. Conchita Martinez and Pat Shnyder moonballs, Nadal has some of the most powerful strokes on clay, he constantly dictates matches from the back of the court and I would say he is better than most to 100 players volleying too. This eyar he is very aggresive...

It's so obvious that Nadal is not a counter-puncher, that's too obvious.
Federer is good, but not that good, and Nadal will take him out of #1.

white&blue
05-02-2007, 09:09 PM
I think marcD is right. Federer can't beat Rafa on clay in normal situation. Nadal game is so good for clay and it completely destroy's Federer. Moonballing is the best tactic for Federer that's has been proven this year (Canas).

Despite the excellent moonballing Rafa has the best forehand on tour for clay. If I had to choose from both I would prefer Nadal's forehand for clay.

marcRD
05-16-2007, 05:44 PM
For Federer it's hard, but for guys like Andreev Nadal isn't a bad match-up, so your theory that Nadal on clay = Federer on grass is flawed. Federer defeats even bad match-ups on grass.

Well, you have been given a chanse to proof your point this week.

RagingLamb
05-16-2007, 05:55 PM
he doesn't have to play that well against Federer on Clay. He pretty much owns him.

I remembe last year Federer was blaming Uncle Tony for coaching from the stands, but this year, I guess no excuses.

Forehander
05-16-2007, 06:03 PM
Nadal's is like russell crowe in gladiators. Needs a stab in the back... but still wins against the caesar!!

rafagirlno1
05-17-2007, 12:55 PM
For Federer it's hard, but for guys like Andreev Nadal isn't a bad match-up, so your theory that Nadal on clay = Federer on grass is flawed. Federer defeats even bad match-ups on grass.

:hatoff: right on the money :hatoff:

A_Skywalker
05-17-2007, 12:56 PM
Wonderful prediction from Gustavo :hatoff:

marcRD
05-17-2007, 12:58 PM
Which attitude? I never make any excuses when a player loses.



Give Igor some time and rhythm and you'll see.

You are some kind of genius, arent you? :lol:

Now what is your excuse for Igor beeing ***** by Nadal out there even when Nadal is plaing his 17th match in 1 month?

Do you still really thik Nadal was the same player 2 years ago as he is today?

marcRD
05-17-2007, 01:09 PM
Which attitude? I never make any excuses when a player loses.



Give Igor some time and rhythm and you'll see.

You are some kind of genius, arent you? :lol:

Now what is your excuse for Igor beeing ***** by Nadal out there even when Nadal is plaing his 17th match in 1 month?

Do you still really thik Nadal was the same player 2 years ago as he is today?