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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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Andy and Americans on European clay court

I am recently concerned about Andy's poor European clay court result and also other young Americans.

About Andy, I think If he doesn't figure out to play well on clay, it might be difficult to stay No.1 or 2 unless he wins big tournament like GS consistently. There are tons of Latino players especially Argentina who is catching up how to play well on hard court. I think they are enough to be threat for not only Americans but another countries players.
I have been following men's tennis for 3 years so I don't know exactly how was Agassi's generation but I heard Agassi, Courier, Chang (sorry if these spell is not correct) did well on clay and they all won RG.

I would like to hear your opinion how can Andy and also other young americans improve on European clay because I am very interesting in this and I really hope they are getting better near in the future on European clay.

Sorry for the new thread and English is not my first language, so if you are not clear about my question, please ask me and I will try to describe another explanation.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 01:17 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

We're talking about this here: Andy withdraws Hamburg

but dont worry.. u may have not realized cuz that's not the main topic lol

Umm well, Agassi was a good player on clay, but he never felt comfortable in Europe. I think the same's happening to Andy.

Quote:
About Andy, I think If he doesn't figure out to play well on clay, it might be difficult to stay No.1 or 2 unless he wins big tournament like GS consistently.
Yeah but remember the clay season's pretty short while the hard court season's much longer. (taking on count that u have 2 hard court seasons, spring and summer but there's only one clay season even though there r a few tourneys in the middle of the summer hard court season, but not very important) So he has time to recover from the clay season and the points he may have lost there.
On the other hand, as you'll probably read in the threat that i've just told u about, claycourt players are improving A LOT on hard courts. So if he doesn't improve on clay, it'll be tough for him keep up with the others.

So whatever.. that's my lil conclution from all i've read and well.. seen lol
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 03:07 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishy
About Andy, I think If he doesn't figure out to play well on clay, it might be difficult to stay No.1 or 2 unless he wins big tournament like GS consistently. There are tons of Latino players especially Argentina who is catching up how to play well on hard court. I think they are enough to be threat for not only Americans but another countries players.
First of all, Nishy your English is fine and I understood everything you said!

Now, what I quoted above, I totally agree. I said this in the other thread where we're discussing this. You have the top "claycourters" like Coria and Ferrero and Moya who all play well on hardcourts now, so Andy will HAVE to catch up on clay.

To answer your question about what they can do to improve. I think just keep working and practicing. Getting hurt (Mardy and James), choking matches (Robby), and skipping tournaments and playing as little as possible (all of them) is really hurting all of them on clay. They should play tournaments like Estoril or Valencia instead of Houston. They should really try to play all three TMS tourneys and maybe even one of the ones like Barcelona where all the good clay-courters play. Even if they lose their matches, they and their coaches can watch what happens and say "ok this guy is a great clay player and he did this this and this to beat you" but if they continue to avoid it as much as possible, they can't really improve. It's quite disappointing, as someone who is a fan of most of them.

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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 03:16 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

What she said.

"What kind of shape am I in now? Well round is a shape." said Roddick with a laugh. "I had a very detailed retirement plan, and I feel like I've met every aspect of it: a lot of golf, a lot of carbs, a lot of fried food, and some booze, occasionally — I've been completely committed ... The results have shown."


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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 03:25 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

what they all said..

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Carito,
Thank you for linking the threads. I read some.

bunk18bsb,
>they and their coaches can watch what happens

I agree with you.
They need to practice in there and need to get used to european clay envirornment.

I might be wrong, but I heard Courier's(sorry if spell not correct) play style is little similar to Andy's like power hitter. Courier won some RG before and hope Andy and others can get some advice from him and that helps.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 03:50 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Quote:
Carito,
Thank you for linking the threads. I read some.
You're welcome
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:16 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Courier was a ferocious baseline player who was tremendously fit and was coached by Higueras who was a good clay court player himself.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:22 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Well first and foremost, they need to change their bullshit attitude about them playing on clay. If they keep on having a crap ass mind set while playing on the dirt, they won't get any better

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:23 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Andy will have to be a lot more fit to play on clay successfully. He's going to have to practice on his footwork too.
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:35 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishy
I have been following men's tennis for 3 years so I don't know exactly how was Agassi's generation but I heard Agassi, Courier, Chang (sorry if these spell is not correct) did well on clay and they all won RG.
I am the same age as Agassi's group and yes, they were all very good on clay (sans Sampras ). This is the first generation we've had in a while where our European clay results are less-than-spectacular.

But I really think it's still too early to tell how the young Americans will do ("they" being Fish, Roddick, Blake, Ginepri). I don't know what's happened in the last few years that Andy's clay performance suddenly turned so poor. People blame Brad Gilbert but I don't think that's it because his results were just as bad when he was with Tarik Benhabiles. He did great at his first French Open appearance in 2001 but it's been downhill ever since.

Perhaps it has something to do with comfort zone. Andy's not in his comfort zone when he's in Europe and, for this year at least, he simply was not ready and prepared to go to Rome. He was still coming down from the high of the Davis Cup win, and he barely looked like he even wanted to be at the Houston Clay Championships, let alone get on a plane and shift gears onto the euro clay. Too much on his plate.

The way I see it: there were two big things that affected his mentality going into Rome: Davis Cup and the hotel fire. If he didn't have to contend with either, I think he would've been much more prepared for Rome.

That's why I'm feeling better about his chances at RG this year. He will have had the extra week to nurse his knee and prepare his mind and body for the clay. Providing there are no more freak accidents and fires to contend with, he should do OK in France (where he's quite popular, so the crowd won't be terribly hostile, either).

btw, Nishy, your English is perfectly good!

"What kind of shape am I in now? Well round is a shape." said Roddick with a laugh. "I had a very detailed retirement plan, and I feel like I've met every aspect of it: a lot of golf, a lot of carbs, a lot of fried food, and some booze, occasionally — I've been completely committed ... The results have shown."


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Last edited by tangerine_dream; 05-09-2004 at 04:48 AM.
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Quote:
Originally Posted by star
Courier was a ferocious baseline player who was tremendously fit and was coached by Higueras who was a good clay court player himself.
Star,
Thank you for this information. I can imagine why Courier did well on clay.
Where Higueras come from? I am just curious.
I think Brad still can control Andy's head(mind) so I don't think Andy has to change the coach soon but he needs the advisor who knows and teach well everything about clay game style.
Agassi never felt comfortable to play on clay but he won some of clay court tournaments and won RG when he was with Brad who never won in clay. Even thoug his play style is not same as Andy's, but I am very curious how Agassi managed to win on clay. Does anyone know?

Sorry if you feel I ask many question to you.
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:47 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishy
Agassi never felt comfortable to play on clay but he won some of clay court tournaments and won RG when he was with Brad who never won in clay. Even thoug his play style is not same as Andy's, but I am very curious how Agassi managed to win on clay. Does anyone know?
Agassi was blessed/cursed with a tennis-obsessed stage father who made Andre and his siblings practice tennis on every kind of court surface he could find.

"What kind of shape am I in now? Well round is a shape." said Roddick with a laugh. "I had a very detailed retirement plan, and I feel like I've met every aspect of it: a lot of golf, a lot of carbs, a lot of fried food, and some booze, occasionally — I've been completely committed ... The results have shown."


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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:50 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

I think Americans historically haven't been good on clay.

Before Courier and Chang, Tony Trabert was the last American to have won Roland Garros. Connors never won it despite his baseline poweress. McEnroe never won it, and his loss there to Lendl really took the heart out of him.

Agassi was tremendously uncomfortable on clay for a long time. Funny to think now that Agassi won Wimbledon before he won Roland Garros. It wasn't until he got very fit that he won Roland Garros.

Chang... One has to think that was the flukiest slam win of all time. I don't think he even reached the final of a major after that.
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-09-2004, 04:50 AM
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Re: Andy and Americans on European clay court

I agree with most of what you guys have said

tangy that is funny that his best RG performance (3rd round when he had to retire against Hewitt, but played so great against Chang) was his first time playing, and his best performance at ALL THREE of the TMS clay tourneys was the first time he played those in 2002 (3rd round, SF, and 3rd round at MC, Rome, and Hamburg respectively). It's confuzzling

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