PTS or Set Ratios as TB method? - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com
View Poll Results: Which TB method do you prefer in TT?
Predict-the-Score system (the current system here) 31 46.27%
Set Ratio system (the current system in WTA TT) 36 53.73%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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post #16 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:13 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

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Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler View Post
I am not convinced.
If you was to play PTS at a bookmakers it would be a fools game How on earth are you expected to correctly predict set scores such as 6-2, 6-1?? However people do predict them correctly though this is extremely rare. However it is more plausible to predict a 2-1 or 2-0 win with better judgement.

Maybe this poll has come a year too early for MTF. It works well in WTA and maybe in a years time players will have different views.

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post #17 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:15 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

I'm good in PTS so I voted for that one.


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post #18 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:17 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

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Originally Posted by Deathless Mortal View Post
I'm good in PTS so I voted for that one.
Thats not a reason
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post #19 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:19 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by invu2day View Post
If you was to play PTS at a bookmakers it would be a fools game How on earth are you expected to correctly predict set scores such as 6-2, 6-1?? However people do predict them correctly though this is extremely rare. However it is more plausible to predict a 2-1 or 2-0 win with better judgement.

Maybe this poll has come a year too early for MTF. It works well in WTA and maybe in a years time players will have different views.
Are we dealing with bookmakers here? We aren't.

Next point there is spread betting and if someone was to get the correct score beforehand and yes bookies do offer that, then the odds are a lot higher and they should be a lot higher for obvious reasons.

In other words swapping one flawed system with another one, but you know my view on this. The main problem I have is players losing on ranking and if I win a match in 2007 cause of a higher ranking I will forfeit my next round match.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #20 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:24 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

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Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler View Post
Are we dealing with bookmakers here? We aren't.

Next point there is spread betting and if someone was to get the correct score beforehand and yes bookies do offer that, then the odds are a lot higher and they should be a lot higher for obvious reasons.

In other words swapping one flawed system with another one, but you know my view on this. The main problem I have is players losing on ranking and if I win a match in 2007 cause of a higher ranking I will forfeit my next round match.
What I am trying to do by proposing this system is make TT more about tipping skill and less about PTS skill. How much of predicting a good score depends on complete luck. When you pick a player to win a match to win a set 6-4, but they win in 6-3. You knew it would be one break but because of whether they won the coin toss and elected to serve or receieve, you won't win your match? I just thinks PTS is further removed and if they are both flawed systems as you say, wouldn't it at least be worth a shot to try something new rather than staying with a flawed status quo? People seem to be obsessed with having a PTS/TT hybrid I guess. We would still be trying to eliminate players winning by ranking, but again, I haven't seen you propose a decent solution to the problem yet either.

Troicki - Djokovic - Del Potro - Kyrgios - Berankis
Cibulkova - Robson - Kirilenko - Azarenka
Retired but always loving Ferrero - Ancic - Kiefer

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post #21 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by invu2day View Post
If you was to play PTS at a bookmakers it would be a fools game How on earth are you expected to correctly predict set scores such as 6-2, 6-1?? However people do predict them correctly though this is extremely rare. However it is more plausible to predict a 2-1 or 2-0 win with better judgement.

Maybe this poll has come a year too early for MTF. It works well in WTA and maybe in a years time players will have different views.
Set ratio isn't a perfect system as isn't PTS. What if the set ratios are even (which is a realistic possibility) and there's no CB, you would still need to have the PTS TB's too. Isn't it confusing to have three different systems at the same time?
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post #22 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:33 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

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Originally Posted by Labamba View Post
Set ratio isn't a perfect system as isn't PTS. What if the set ratios are even (which is a realistic possibility) and there's no CB, you would still need to have the PTS TB's too. Isn't it confusing to have three different systems at the same time?
That's how they do it and it works. It would only be 3 different systems in the first round. And in some cases set ratio would help decide finals in a better way than PTS. I think it involves more tipping skill to say Federer will beat Nadal in 5 sets and to win over an opponent to thinks Federer would win in 4. Then again I am here for the tipping, not for the PTS. I play PTS for the PTS. And i'm not awful at PTS, I've won PTS titles (just so people don't think that is my motivation here...) I am just against the complete combination of the two games.

Troicki - Djokovic - Del Potro - Kyrgios - Berankis
Cibulkova - Robson - Kirilenko - Azarenka
Retired but always loving Ferrero - Ancic - Kiefer

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post #23 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:34 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

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Originally Posted by savestheday91 View Post
What I am trying to do by proposing this system is make TT more about tipping skill and less about PTS skill. How much of predicting a good score depends on complete luck. When you pick a player to win a match to win a set 6-4, but they win in 6-3. You knew it would be one break but because of whether they won the coin toss and elected to serve or receieve, you won't win your match? I just thinks PTS is further removed and if they are both flawed systems as you say, wouldn't it at least be worth a shot to try something new rather than staying with a flawed status quo? People seem to be obsessed with having a PTS/TT hybrid I guess. We would still be trying to eliminate players winning by ranking, but again, I haven't seen you propose a decent solution to the problem yet either.
Considering there will be 5 TBs in whatever format that should reduce the chances of eliminating players losing by ranking. Try and convince me it's fair that a player should lose cause of their ranking?

Set ratio isn't perfect and neither is PTS, cause what happens if the set ratios are the same, then what is the fallback position?

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #24 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

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Originally Posted by savestheday91 View Post
That's how they do it and it works.
The PTS TB works here.

Which is more complicated (and more work for the managers), to send set ratios for all the matches + scores for a TB match or to send 1 score (5 in the first round) for a TB match?
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post #25 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:39 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler View Post
Considering there will be 5 TBs in whatever format that should reduce the chances of eliminating players losing by ranking. Try and convince me it's fair that a player should lose cause of their ranking?

Set ratio isn't perfect and neither is PTS, cause what happens if the set ratios are the same, then what is the fallback position?
People are making decisions without reading any of the debate that led to this poll. *sigh*

WHO IS SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT LETTING PEOPLE WIN BY RANKING? People have said time and time over that it's awful, we get it. Under no system should that happen anymore. Now let's move on.

Set ratio and then 2 tbs in the first round, in every other round CBs. As little PTS as possible. I am not pulling this system out of my ass. Other TT games use set ratio/score combination. If anything our game would be fairer than WTAW because they don't use PTS scoring all the time. Do you play PTS GWH? In many first rounds we have to pick 7 matches to predict. That's only 2 more matches than in TT. It's becoming a very similar game, the only difference is league table vs. knockout format.

Troicki - Djokovic - Del Potro - Kyrgios - Berankis
Cibulkova - Robson - Kirilenko - Azarenka
Retired but always loving Ferrero - Ancic - Kiefer

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post #26 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:41 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labamba View Post
The PTS TB works here.

Which is more complicated (and more work for the managers), to send set ratios for all the matches + scores for a TB match or to send 1 score (5 in the first round) for a TB match?
I'm not the only one who thinks turning this game into PTS is crap. Set ratios are at least easy to understand and related to tipping more closely than PTS is. My only motivation is for keeping this a tipping game. If you want to be generous and let us test this out once just to see if it works, I volunteered for Delray Beach and would be more than happy to do allllll this extra work (which would only be for one round since other rounds would only be set ratio and I think calculating set ratio is still easier than the 3 extra PTS scores...) as a test.

Troicki - Djokovic - Del Potro - Kyrgios - Berankis
Cibulkova - Robson - Kirilenko - Azarenka
Retired but always loving Ferrero - Ancic - Kiefer

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post #27 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:43 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

Anyway, you can't persuade people who are not open to the idea of being persuaded. I'm done with this, let the chips fall where they may.

Troicki - Djokovic - Del Potro - Kyrgios - Berankis
Cibulkova - Robson - Kirilenko - Azarenka
Retired but always loving Ferrero - Ancic - Kiefer

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post #28 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:49 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by savestheday91 View Post
People are making decisions without reading any of the debate that led to this poll. *sigh*

WHO IS SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT LETTING PEOPLE WIN BY RANKING? People have said time and time over that it's awful, we get it. Under no system should that happen anymore. Now let's move on.

Set ratio and then 2 tbs in the first round, in every other round CBs. As little PTS as possible. I am not pulling this system out of my ass. Other TT games use set ratio/score combination. If anything our game would be fairer than WTAW because they don't use PTS scoring all the time. Do you play PTS GWH? In many first rounds we have to pick 7 matches to predict. That's only 2 more matches than in TT. It's becoming a very similar game, the only difference is league table vs. knockout format.
I have played a few PTS tournaments and understand how it works. Do you think the managers will appreciate the extra workload? They aren't get paid to run these games.

What makes you think people haven't read the differing proposals? What cause they have chosen to vote a different way? Some have and others haven't, there is crossover between the games, this is not exactly surprising and it should be limited as much as possible.

There needs to be more than 2 tbs with set ratio.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #29 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by savestheday91 View Post
I'm not the only one who thinks turning this game into PTS is crap. Set ratios are at least easy to understand and related to tipping more closely than PTS is. My only motivation is for keeping this a tipping game. If you want to be generous and let us test this out once just to see if it works, I volunteered for Delray Beach and would be more than happy to do allllll this extra work (which would only be for one round since other rounds would only be set ratio and I think calculating set ratio is still easier than the 3 extra PTS scores...) as a test.
TT is so much more than PTS (much more players, knock-out format...) I don't get why some of you are so dead set against PTS being a part of TT (as TB method). It's not like PTS is going to grow into a bigger game than TT...

The poll will decide, we're not going to test things on ATP tournaments and have different system over the course of the year.

And this poll won't determine if TB's are used before CB's. There will be another poll about this next week.
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post #30 of 187 (permalink) Old 11-10-2006, 11:59 AM
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Re: PTS or Set Ratios as TB method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labamba View Post
TT is so much more than PTS (much more players, knock-out format...) I don't get why some of you are so dead set against PTS being a part of TT (as TB method). It's not like PTS is going to grow into a bigger game than TT...

The poll will decide, we're not going to test things on ATP tournaments and have different system over the course of the year.

And this poll won't determine if TB's are used before CB's. There will be another poll about this next week.
More players doesn't make it a different game, it just makes it a more popular one. So all there is is knockout format vs league tabe. Tell me how much difference there is when my first round PTS picks look like this:

Federer 6-2 6-3
Rochus 7-6 6-4
Nadal 6-4 6-3
Berdych 6-4 7-6
Gonzalez 6-4 3-6 7-6
Acasuso 6-3 6-4
Djokovic 7-6 6-3

And my TT picks look like this:

Federer 6-2 6-3
Rochus
Nadal 6-4 6-3
Berdych 6-4 7-6
Gonzalez
Acasuso 6-3 6-4
Djokovic 7-6 6-3

Troicki - Djokovic - Del Potro - Kyrgios - Berankis
Cibulkova - Robson - Kirilenko - Azarenka
Retired but always loving Ferrero - Ancic - Kiefer

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