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Tennis Tipping 2009 Rules Thread (out of date - use 2013 Rules)

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#1 · (Edited)
TT Rules

TT Changes 2010

1) WTF doubles:
No change (individual race)
.

2) Top 30 & challengers in Davis Cup & Grand Slam 2nd weeks and when there are no ATP tournaments played:
Top 30 players (singles & doubles) are allowed to play these challengers as late entries (LE).

3) SR shootout:
Retirements count for the SR shootout (only correct winners, not the SR).

ex: Ljubo vs Blake SR1 -> result Ljubo def Blake 61 ret.
Match: Player A 12:12 Player B - SRs 5:5 (Player A picked Ljubo & Player B picked Blake)
Result:
Player A wins on SR1 correct winner.

4) Doubles commitments:
Players are allowed to commit to doubles in week #1.

5) Changes - points breakdown:
- Masters (7 rounds) = 500, 350, 225, 125, 75, 40, 15, 0 (+20 for qualifier)
- 500 (6 rounds) = 300, 210, 135, 75, 40, 15, 0 (+15 for qualifier)
- 250 (6 rounds) = 200, 140, 90, 50, 25, 10, 0 (+10 for qualifier)


6) 250 & 500 tournaments:
No change.


7) Challengers & the WTF race:
Challengers count for the WTF race.

8) Top 30 DOUBLES players & Challengers:
Top 30 doubles players are not allowed to play challengers. The same rules apply to singles and doubles.


9) Davis Cup & ATP points:
No change (no points for Davis Cup).


10) Number of SR matches:
All matches as SRs.


11) Protected ranking (PR):
Players are allowed to ask for a PR after they're back from their absence.

Important: They must request a PR before they commit to any tournaments.

11) Wild cards (WC):
No change (no WCs).


12) Current rules which are being added to the thread:
- Picks must be sent to the correct manager.
- Monday’s SRs for doubles (two-day round) – when the manager doesn’t say anything about them, they should go to the bottom of the SR order (for shootout purposes).
- Players must withdraw from the tournament they've previously entered before being accepted in the entry list of another tournament (as a late entry).


TT Changes 2009 - The Board decision

1. Revised Ranking Points Breakdown
- 0 points for R1 losses (except in GS, which are mandatory)

- GS = 1000, 700, 450, 250, 150, 75, 35, 5 (+20 for qualifier)
- Masters = 500, 350, 225, 125, 75, 35, 0 (+20 for qualifier)
- 500 = 300, 210, 135, 75, 25, 0 (+15 for qualifier)
- 250 = 200, 140, 90, 50, 20, 0 (+10 for qualifier)

- Increase in challenger points:

Category 1 - ATP's $100,000 or higher: 120, 84, 54, 28, 12, 0 (+5 for qualifier)
Category 2 - ATP's $75,000+H or lower: 90, 63, 40, 21, 9, 0 (+3 for qualifier)

2. Number of SR matches
- All matches as SRs, though a maximum of 20 (mostly needed at Slams).

3. SR System
- No more SR winners rule (even in Slams). If a match is tied, it goes straight to correct SRs. If number of correct SRs is tied, it goes to the SR shootout. When both players pick the loser, the shootout win goes to the one who gave more sets to the winner.

4. PTS System
- the old system won the poll, no change

5. Doubles at the TMC
- the current system won the poll, no change

6. Wildcards
- Not being implemented.

7. Match deadlines
- Managers will set a deadline at which no more picks will be allowed, even if a point hasn't been played. The deadline will be taken from the official order of play and set at a time when the first match begins.

8. Late Picks
- No late picks allowed, even if there are no LLs available. Other player will be given a w/o. If both players don't send, then late picks > no picks. Also 0 points > no picks (in a 2-day round sending on one day is enough to avoid a walkover).

9. Protected Ranking (PR) and Special Exempts
- As per now. Adam will run the SE thread with others helping out if necessary.

10. Sending picks incorrectly
a) If someone sends before OOP is posted then no punishment.
b) First time = a warning (manager should PM the player back)
c) Second time = a point penalty
d) Disqualification

Tournament threads must have instructions on how to send picks correctly. It's up to the manager whether they wish to impose these penalties. It's just an option which might hopefully make players realise it's annoying when they send ridiculous PM's.

Protected Ranking (PR)

- PR will be introduced. Players must inform the board about their absence for the protected ranking to start running. A list of players with protected ranking will be kept in the managers thread. To get a PR, the players absence from TT must be continuos for atleast 3 months. The number of PR's will depend on the lenght of absence:

3 months out = 3 PR
4 months out = 4 PR
5 months out = 5 PR
6 or more months out = 6 PR

For the PR that a player is able to use for entries, we will use the average ranking of the first 6 weeks that the player was out. PR applies to both singles and doubles and we'll have a separate PR for both of them.

Special Exempts (SE)

- We will bring it to TT. A separate SE thread will be started in the TT forum to follow the possible SE's for every week (updated on Wednesday/Thursday). We are going to use the same basic rules as the ATP. The manager will leave 1 or 2 SE spots (depending on the tournament) in the main draw, if they won't be needed, then the first player(s) on the qualifying entry list will be promoted from the qualifying draw to the main draw. More from the ATP Rulebook (page 70):

a) A Qualified Event for Special Exempt to an ATP Masters Series Tournament is the singles event of another ATP Masters Series or International Series Gold Tournament.
b) A Qualified Event for Special Exempt to an ATP International Series Gold Tournament is the singles event of another International Series Gold or ATP Masters Series Tournament.
c) A Qualified Event for Special Exempt to an ATP International Series Tournament is the singles event of any International Series or ATP Masters Series Tournament.
d) A Qualified Event for Special Exempt to a Challenger Series Tournament is the singles event of any ATP or Challenger Series Tournament.

Number of special exempts
ATP Masters Series and International Series Gold Tournaments shall have one (1) Special Exempt and International Series and Challenger Series Tournaments shall have two (2).

Players may receive a Special Exempt into the main draw of the following week's tournament if they meet the criteria and apply for it. If the main draw is to be made before a potential Special Exempt player plays on Friday, then such place(s) shall be drawn in the same manner as qualifier, i.e., four qualifiers ("Q") and one or two "SE" depending on whether there are one or two possibilities. Each of the five or six slots are marked "Q/SE." As soon as the "SE" match results are known, either the "SE" or the next Direct Acceptance (if the SE lost) is randomly drawn and inserted into the draw.
Challenger ban from Top 30

- We will keep the same rule as this year (Top 30).

Should the ban also include the Grand Slam 2nd weeks, Davis Cup weeks and the weeks after the Paris Masters Series tournament?

- We will keep the same rule as this year (no), but we are going to be more strict in determing when a player has to be knocked out from a GS (to play in a challenger the following week).

No-ranked players (NR's) before late entries (LE's) in the entry list

- Yes, NR's will become before LE's.

Entry System

The entry system went through a major overhaul for the start of 2007 season, here's how it works:​

Singles

32 player draw -> 28 direct entries, 4 qualy spots (max. 16 player qualy draw, 32 only in special occasions)
64 player draw -> 56 direct entries, 8 qualy spots (max. 32 player qualy draw)
128 player draw -> 112 direct entries, 16 qualy spots (64 player qualy draw, 128 in Grand Slams)

- Entries will be based on ranking (rankings from two weeks before the start of the tournament)
- Tournament thread posted on Friday (back-up day Saturday, then Sunday) two weeks before the start of the tourney (for example, the Doha tournament on week 1 would have it's thread posted on December 14th)
- Players have 10 days (from Friday till Sunday) to commit to the tournament for singles and this will be done by ranking (doubles commitments don't start yet). The first entry deadline is always Sunday 6 pm CET
- On Sunday evening after seeing the entry lists, players that aren't among the 28 direct entries, can move to another tournament which has free places or decide not to move and play the qualies there (only 1 change is allowed, still on ranking but late entries - LE's will go to the bottom of the entry list)
- Unranked players will be listed in the order of commitment
- Friday is the deadline (the exact time is up to the tournament manager) for changes and the draws are made after that for qualies and md

Doubles

16 team draw -> 14 direct entries, 2 qualy spots (max. 8 team qualy draw, 16 only in special occasions)
32 team draw -> 28 direct entries, 4 qualy spots (max. 16 team qualy draw)
64 team draw -> 56 direct entries, 8 qualy spots (max. 32 team qualy draw)

- Entries will be based on ranking (rankings from two weeks before the start of the tournament)
- Doubles commitments start on Sunday 6 pm CET (the week before the tournament), players that are in the singles entry lists (main & qualy & alt) can now pair up

Example for Doha 2007:

Friday Dec 14 ~ tournament thread is posted, the commitments by ranking will start (no changes allowed)
Sunday Dec 24 ~ the entry list for the tournament is posted (entry deadline Sunday 6 pm CET)
Sunday Dec 24 6 pm CET ~ players can move to another tournament (1 change is allowed)
Sunday Dec 24 6 pm CET ~ doubles commitments start, players from the entry list pair up
Friday Dec 29 ~ the entry lists are finalized, the draws are done
Sat-Sun Dec 30-31 ~ quallies
Mon Jan 1 ~ main draw play will start

Draw Sizes

TT will follow the ATP here, with the exception of getting rid of the bye in all of the tournaments. This will mean that there will only be 3 kinds of singles draws next year (for 32, 64 and 128 players). Qualifying draws are normally for 16 players, but for the weeks like Sydney & Auckland (when there's no challengers) the quallies will be extended to 32 players.

Min. number of commitments for a tournament to be run

A TT tournament must have atleast 16 players committed for it to be run. If this number isn't reached before 2nd the deadline, the players signed-up can move to the other tournaments held the same week without being marked as late entries. Doubles tournament needs to have atleast 8 teams committed to be run.

Counting the retired matches?

The match will be counted if one point is played. Retired matches won't count in the new TB System.

Qualifying for the Tennis Masters Cup

Top 16 players in the doubles race rankings will qualify for the TMC. Top 8 players in the singles race rankings will qualify for the TMC. Ties will be broken by total points gathered in the Grand Slams that year.

Lucky Loser System

LL's just like in the ATP, except the order of lucky losers will be determined with the 'old' system (most correct picks, SR's, PTS...)

Challengers

Top 30 players in the singles entry rankings can't play them, except during the Davis Cup and Grand Slam second weeks and when there are no ATP tournaments played.

Ranking System

The ranking system will remain the same (4 "mandatory" Grand Slams + 14 best others), but 0's for missing a Slam (which the player could have played with his ranking) will be added just like in the ATP. TMC points will be counted as an extra 19th tournament.

Partner sending both players doubles tips

Will not be accepted anymore, the picks must come from two different players.

The same picks for singles and doubles

Only one set of picks will be accepted, the same picks will be used for both singles and doubles.

Saving the daily schedule

When running a tournament, the manager should keep the old schedule (OOP + TB's) visible and not just edit the post with the next one. This is recommended in case there's a mistake or if somebody would like check for example what the order of TB matches were.

Playing TT with more than one account

In order to retain the integrity and the spirit of TT, this is not allowed. Players that appear to be suspicious of having accounts transmitting from the same IP, will have their IP’s checked by the supermods and could risk being suspended in TT. A 2-year ban is the standard lenght for the cheaters.

Standard schedules for tournaments

Code:
[B][U]TT Doubles Draw size 16[/U]

Saturday ~ TT Q1 & (Q2)
Sunday ~ TT Qualy Final Round
Monday & Tuesday ~ TT R16
Wednesday & Thursday ~ TT QF
Friday ~ TT SF
Saturday & Sunday ~ TT Final

[U]TT Draw size 32[/U]

Saturday ~ TT Q1 & (Q2)
Sunday ~ TT Qualy Final Round
Monday ~ TT R32
Tuesday ~ TT R16
Wednesday & Thursday ~ TT QF
Friday ~ TT SF
Saturday & Sunday ~ TT Final

[U]TT Doubles Draw size 32[/U]

Saturday ~ TT Q1 & (Q2)
Sunday ~ TT Qualy Final Round
Monday & Tuesday ~ TT R32
Wednesday ~ TT R16
Thursday ~ TT QF
Friday ~ TT SF
Saturday & Sunday ~ TT Final

[U]TT Draw size 64[/U]

Saturday ~ TT Q1
Sunday ~ TT Qualy Final Round
Monday ~ TT R64
Tuesday ~ TT R32
Wednesday ~ TT R16
Thursday ~ TT QF
Friday ~ TT SF
Saturday & Sunday ~ TT Final[/B]
TT Board of Managers

These rules were created by the TT board, which consists of five people (Gavnich77, Troickitard, keqtqiadv, Labamba and adee-gee). If you have any questions, you can always contact us for more information.
 
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#2 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

- Entry system
- Draw sizes
- Ranking system
- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC (regular partners?)
- Davis Cup system
- The use of TB's and CB's
- Round Robin format
- Losing by ranking
- SE's
- LL system
- Late picks
- Challengers (who can play them?)
- Counting the retired matches
- Entry system: The same as ATP, but since we don't have wild cards, we would have the wild card spots in the entry list spots, too.

- Draw sizes: The same as ATP.

- Ranking system: The same as ATP. I like the mandatory tournaments. If you can't play them, it's bad. But it's bad when a player is injured and can't play them neither. So I would make 4 GS + 9 MS + 5 Best Results (+ Shanghai)

- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC (regular partners?): I would like the regular partners, because it's realistic. But I think a lot of persons don't want them...

- Davis Cup system: The same as ATP. With divisions and relegations and promotions, etc...

- The use of TB's and CB's: I'm against CB's. All matches of a round should have TB's and only if we have a tie then, we should use a countback. It's unfair to lose a third round match because you had a bad second round match.

- Round Robin format: We should try it once. And see how it works.

- Losing by ranking: No!!! It's horrible! And if we have to do it, I think the player with the lowest ranking should be the one who gets through.

- SE's: We need them. They have rules, so nobody can say to us that we are prefering a player over another player.

- LL system: The same as ATP. No LL in a second round, please.

- Late picks: We should count them. Sometimes players like Gaudio only start playing in the second set and they aren't replaced by a LL... lol

- Challengers (who can play them?): Anybody but the Top 20. In ATP the players between 21-50 can play it if they get a wildcard. Since we don't have those, we should let them play.

- Counting the retired matches: Yes.
 
#3 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Lets put in another point..

- Can players send in picks for their partners in doubles?
 
#4 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

- Entry system
- Draw sizes
- Ranking system
- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC (regular partners?)
- Davis Cup system
- The use of TB's and CB's
- Round Robin format
- Losing by ranking
- SE's
- LL system
- Late picks
- Challengers (who can play them?)
- Counting the retired matches
- Entry system, draw sizes and ranking system: like ATP.
- Qualifying system for doubles MC: this should be realistic. No partners must be fixed, but the criteria should be a doubles race, and only permament partners would have a chance to be there.
- Davis Cup system: each country and its top players choose a captain that will nominate players. I think doubles should be different than singles in any country that has enough players for that to happen.
- TBs and CBs: I think all TBs should decide matches. Why only TB1? That doesn't make sense.
- RR: never!
- Losing by ranking: if players in real life are intimidated by rankings, why shouldn't this factor apply to TT too? Higher ranked player must have some advantage.
- SEs: as ATP.
- LL system: only from qualies to main draw. If a player doesn't send tips in the second round, he loses by W/O.
- Late picks: no problem, but the matches already started must be discounted.
- Challengers: as ATP.
- Retired matches: things are fine as they are right now when it comes to that subject.
 
#6 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

- Entry system: Same as ATP. It should also be possible to sign up for more then one tournament per week until let´s say friday noon, then you have to decide where to play.

- Draw sizes: Same as ATP

- Ranking system: Best 20 (only GS mandatory)

- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC (regular partners?): No. The Top 8 in the final doubles ranking can chose any partner. If, for example No1 plays together with No7, then No9 can also chose a partner. It´s not as complicate as it sounds :)

- Davis Cup system: Same as ATP, 3 possibilities: one country should be able to have more than one team. That gives us USA II, Portugal II,...
How to define the 16 teams playing in the world group? We calculate the rankings for the best 2 players from each country.
2nd possibility: Best ranked player of each country is the Davis Cup captain and can chose the team, from 2-4 players.
3rd possibility: Best 2 players from each country play together, that´s it.

- The use of TB's and CB's: let´s keep it as it is, i am totally against TB´s for each match.

- Round Robin format: same as ATP

- Losing by ranking: Yes, higher ranked player should advance.

- SE's: Same as ATP

- LL system: Same as ATP, only in the first round.

- Late picks: Same as ATP, you have to be on court on time ;) In the first round a LL should replace that player.

- Challengers (who can play them?): Everyone outside the TOP50

- Counting the retired matches: Yes

- Can players send in picks for their partners in doubles?: No
 
#13 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

-

- Can players send in picks for their partners in doubles?: No
I'm against it.
Why shouldn't they be able to send them in? If one person can't be at the computer then why can't their partner put in picks? Especially if the round is over one day. I mean what would you want? For your partner to have the same picks or different picks as you? Don't see the problem.
 
#7 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Entry system - atp
- Draw sizes - it depends of the tournaments per week , but if there arent enough for all the players I think it should 2 times larger
- Ranking system - atp
- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC (regular partners?)
- Davis Cup system
- The use of TB's and CB's
- Round Robin format
- Losing by ranking - No , we should provide more tiebreaks in 1st round
- SE's
- LL system - Im against LL's , because it is stupid LL to win a tournament and in TT it is very possible
- Late picks
- Challengers (who can play them?) outside top 40
- Counting the retired matches - if one set has been completed
 
#9 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

- Entry system: Entries by ranking. I think it's bad the pressure to made a commintment, so I think that sign-in should be open, maybe, 3 weeks before the tournament start and close at 7 days before the tournament start. We should give more importance to Challenger Series, more tournaments and, maybe, give more points than in real situation (of course, less than ATP) to be more easy a CH player win points and entry in ATP Tour.

- Draw sizes: The same as ATP. Never a Int. Series and Masters Series with 128 players. Maybe extend the tournaments like New Haven and St Poelten to 64 players. The Masters Series philosophy is to the top 50 players, so no extend, like in real circuit.

- Ranking system: I think actual ranking system it's the best. 4 GS + 14 best tourn. (+ TMC). We should dignify the Grand Slams, but I think the importance of Masters Series is more points. Sylvester, I think we don't should penalize a player that can't play it like an injury, because don't play it, it's already a hard to him. So, 4 mandotories tournaments it's enough.

- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC (regular partners?): I'm not sure, but I think the regular partners system to Masters Cup is not the best. I have a regular partner, but I understand who want play with many partners. Also, if a partner can't play in the Masters Cup week? It's unfair for another partner can't play it.

- Davis Cup system: With divisions and relegations and promotions, etc... Only a team by country. 2 top singles players and 2 top doubles players (+ alternates).

- The use of TB's and CB's: I like CB's. Even, I think that CB's its more fair than TB's. I think we should the actual system. Only it's better think in an alternative to the TB's, because TB's = 90% of lucky.

- Round Robin format: I'm really afraid of this! Not sure!

- Losing by ranking: Only if no alternative system. But in case of tie, higher ranking should win the match.

- SE's: YES!!!!!!.

- LL system: Yes to qualication. Not sure about 2nd round LL.

- Late picks: Yes, but with regulation. e.g. Only 2 matches late and can count a late match if the match be at the middle of 1st set (6 games) and no breaks advantage.

- Challengers (who can play them?): In the weeks with ATP tournaments (except 2nd weeks) top 20/30 don't should play CH, but in the Davis Cup, 2nd weeks and rest weeks always can play it.

- Counting the retired matches: No if no set complete or no advantage to the winner. e.g. we should count a match "6-4 1-0 ret", "7-6 0-1 ret" or "7-5 2-6 3-1 ret" but not "5-4 ret", "5-0 ret", "4-6 3-3 ret" or "4-6 6-4 2-4 ret".
 
#25 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

I think there should be set ratios like on wta in this game but only if there are 8 matches or less if more no set ratios and one TB in TT on wtaworld is working really well and

- Counting the retired matches: No if no set complete or no advantage to the winner. e.g. we should count a match "6-4 1-0 ret", "7-6 0-1 ret" or "7-5 2-6 3-1 ret" but not "5-4 ret", "5-0 ret", "4-6 3-3 ret" or "4-6 6-4 2-4 ret".
 
#10 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Since I agree with a lot of what has already been posted, I'll keep this short and sweet:

- The use of TB's and CB's : I can't believe people think CBs are unfair. If anything TBs are what is unfair. This is a Tennis Tipping game if you like predicting scores, go play PTS. If a match is tied, I think it should come down to how you tipped before how well you can predict a score. In an ideal world, I wouldn't have any PTS in this game at all. I mean in recent events having around 5 tbs? I think that's kind of ridiculous. You are predicting a score for almost every match, in an order of importance selected by the manager. It sucks for a player when their TB 1 is awful but their TB 2 nearly perfect so they lose. CBs at least reward a player for what THIS game is supposedly about.
- Round Robin format: If you implement it, I won't play a single event that is run like that. So you can do it, I will pray it's a failure and we'll move on, just like I hope some players do with the real ATP.
 
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#11 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Since I agree with a lot of what has already been posted, I'll keep this short and sweet:

- The use of TB's and CB's : I can't believe people think CBs are unfair. If anything TBs are what is unfair. This is a Tennis Tipping game if you like predicting scores, go play PTS. If a match is tied, I think it should come down to how you tipped before how well you can predict a score. In an ideal world, I wouldn't have any PTS in this game at all. I mean in recent events having around 5 tbs? I think that's kind of ridiculous. You are predicting a score for almost every match, in an order of importance selected by the manager. It sucks for a player when their TB 1 is awful but their TB 2 nearly perfect so they lose. CBs at least reward a player for what THIS game is supposedly about.
- Round Robin format: If you implement it, I won't play a single event that is run like that. So you can do it, I will pray it's a failure and we'll move on, just like I hope some players do with the real ATP.

Wow that makes a load of sense :yeah:
CB should be the first deciding factor where possible.
 
#22 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

I will try to gather all the TT rules to this thread (first post), so that it's easier for the managers and players to find out what the current rules say about a certain situation. This thread is also the place where managers and players can discuss the rules and make suggestions for changes that will benefit the game.

TT will undergo some important changes for 2007 and the board of managers have been discussing them for a while now. Here's the current list of things that are up for discussion:

- Entry system
- Draw sizes
- Ranking system
- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC (regular partners?)
- Davis Cup system
- The use of TB's and CB's
- Round Robin format
- Losing by ranking
- SE's
- LL system
- Late picks
- Challengers (who can play them?)
- Counting the retired matches
- Can players send in picks for their partners in doubles?

Some of the topics on the list will go to a poll, some will be decided among the board, players can voice their opinions here on any of the topics. If you feel like something that needs to be discussed is missing from the list, please bring them forward here and we can add them to it. Let's try to make this game as great as possible for everybody in 2007 :)
Entry System - exactly the same as the ATP system, with the same number of spots to be allocated by direct entry by ranking, special entry, qualifiers, and wild cards. Special entries would be granted to those who reached the semi-final in the tournament the week before (only if it was the same level though), and wild cards could be handed out by the tournament manager if they can provide an adequate reason as to why someone deserves one. For instance, they are just below the cut-off point and are from the country where the tournament is taking place, or they are ranked high enough but were on holiday when the entry list was drawn up and couldnt confirm the entry, or they were ranked too low when the list was drawn up but have won a tournament since then, giving them a high enough ranking. The reason would have to be okayed by the board of directors (or something like that), and a limit to the number of wild cards a player can recieve in a season

Draw Sizes - same as the ATP system for all tournaments, even those events such as New Haven. It is only fair that those who have a higher ranking can enter the events they choose, and others have to take a chance in qualifying or play challengers, just like in real life

Ranking System - same as what we are currently using, with the 4 GS's, and then the 14 best results. However, I wouldn't have any problems with us using the real ATP system, as that is fair as well

Qualifying for the doubles masters cup - I would prefer to see there top 8 doubles teams qualify, as it is more realistic, and actually sticks to the idea that the best doubles partnerships qualify, rather than the best doubles players. Permanent partnerships wouldnt be a necessity with this system, as it the IS events, there isnt that many points up for offer that would make or break your chances of qualifying. Currently people do seem to change around who they play with, but for a GS, they have the same partner, so it wouldnt be any different in a doubles race

Davis Cup - Ideally we would follow the actual system, but that isnt going to be able to happen for 2007 at least, as we cannot follow on from the 2006 tournament, as a lot of countries didnt enter. Ideally, we would need to find 16 teams, which will easily be done, but the problem would be that there may be too many teams. If 16 seperate country teams can be found, then 16 countries can enter. If there are more than 16 countries, then the highest 16 based on the ranking of the 2 highest players should enter. Any team not having a high enough ranking goes into the play-offs, either in July or September, depending on the number of teams to try and enter the World Group. Seeding to be based firstly on 2006 results, and then by ranking. Entry to the team to be done by the 4 highest ranked players from the country (or less) forming a team, and then selecting who plays on what days, and who the doubles team are.

Use of TB's and CB's - Ideally, no tie breaks would be used, but in round 1 and 2 they have to be applied, but only to be used in a last ditch fashion to avoid ranking. There is no CB in round 1, so TB has to be used here. In round 2 and beyond, CB should be used in preference to TB. However, if you know that you have a better CB than the other person, it does put you 1 ahead, so the other person knows they have to take more risks... so maybe it would be faired to keep TB as the solution...

Round Robin Format - against it, as i don't like the idea of losing a match and still winning the tournament. Dont think that it will work in TT, as it would involve players having a rest day, which would be a new and bizarre concept. I would play RR though if implemented, and it was the tournament I intended to enter

Losing by ranking - a last resort, like it is at the moment. Highest ranked player wins

LL system - never used in doubles (unless there is a doubles qualifying system), and only for round 1 in singles, with the highest scoring LL from qualifying entering the draw if someone doesnt send in picks (like the actual ATP system)

SE's - like i said earlier, SE should be used if someone reaches the semis of an event the previous week, and their ranking isnt high enough to get them into the draw directly. Same system that the ATP uses here

Challengers - In doubles, anyone can play challengers, as there is no restriction. Singles, only those outside the top 50 can play, although some in the top 50 could get a WC to play if there is a situation where it is appropriate eg. a Brit playing in the surbiton trophy

Counting retired matches - They should count, because a win is a win, no matter how it comes. Stick to the system we are currently using

Can players send in picks for their partners in doubles? - Yes, but there should be a legimate reason as to why they are doing so, so if someone was having a real bad week, but their partner wasn't, then they could just have the player playing well send in tips. Something like an illness, a computer failure etc where they physically couldnt send in any tips, the partner's tips should double up
 
#24 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Ranking System: GS and best 20 other scores from all tournaments.
Challengers: Nobody inside top 50 should be able to play them.
Draw Sizes: Same as ATP except all MS + GS should be 128.
 
#28 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

I like the set ratios system!;)

About CB, I like it too, but in rounds with 3/4/5 matches and obvious winners we all know the TT winner before the game.

e.g.
Player A has 3/4 in TT SF, 6/8 in QF
Player B has 3/4 in TT F, 5/8 in QF

Tournament Wimbledon
Real SF
Federer vs Bjorkman (this year sf)
Youzhny vs Roddick

With sure that Federer wins and TT player picks the favourites players (Federer, Roddick and Federer), we all know that Player A wins Wimbledon in Wednesday (after TT SF). What is the fun?:confused:

So, CB's yes but no like primary tie system.
 
#30 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Another idea concerning TB´s: We could use 1-3 TB´s a round depending on how many matches there are and add the scores, not using one TB, then TB2...
So we could nearly fully avoid CB´s and decisions by ranking
 
This post has been deleted
#33 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

I'm not quite sure what this thread will achieve, everyone is going to have different opinions. I would say the TT board should decide what they feel is best and leave it at that. Not everyone will be satisfied but it's impossible to please everyone.

The idea that only permanent partners can qualify for the TMC is insane by the way, there's hardly any people that play with the same partner every week. And those using the point that "TT tries to be as realistic as professional tennis"....don't feed me that bullshit, because most of you voted against bringing in the RR like professional tennis is.
:wavey: This thread is being used to float around some ideas and give players the opportunity to express their opinions which we will take on board. Also, some of these issues will go to a poll and it's useful for people to hear the arguments for and against a proposal before voting. The Board have also been discussing these points over the past few days and we have come up with suggestions to all these points which we will be putting forward over the next week to see what everyone thinks.
We want TT to be as realistic as possible but I don't think we should blindly follow ATP on everything as some of the ATP rules aren't relevant to TT :)
 
#34 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

- Entry system - I think it should be purely ranking based, with an entry list drawn up maybe a week before the tournament, commitments should be open about 2 or 3 weeks before, as this gives all players enough time to commit.
- Draw sizes - The same as ATP, except with byes, where the numbers in IS tournaments should be rounded up to 64. Although we should stick with the byes in TMSs.
- Ranking system - I think it's good as it is now.
- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC- Keep it as it is now
- Davis Cup system - Not too sure but I like the idea of only one team per country, with a team captain deciding the team. Would players represent the country they actually live in, or that on their flag, as many players don't play under where they actually live. Also people often change their flags, so not too sure:confused:
- The use of TB's and CB's - I think CB should be used whenever possible, but in the first round of a tourny we should have maybe 3 TBs, but only in the first round. The order would then go CB, Cb from previous round, TB1 from Round 1, TB2 from round1
- Round Robin format - I think we should give it a go in Adelaide, but if it proves unsuccessful, and inefficent we should abolish it. It seems to be working well for TMC, but not sure how it will fare in normal IS tournaments.
- Losing by ranking - hopefully enough TBs will abolish this, but it should realyy be a very last resort
- SE's - Don't need them, as it is possible for players to be in 2 tournies at once, unlike ATP. and we don't need WC either
- LL system - Only for first round, W/O in future rounds
- Late picks - Should be counted for any match that hasn't started, even if just one point has been played
- Challengers (who can play them?) - I would
- Counting the retired matches - i like the idea of only if at least one set has been completed
- Can players send in picks for their partners in doubles? - no, if the player doesn't send in picks, the team can only go with one person's score.
 
#38 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Losing by rankings is a disgrace I'd rather have more TBs than by losing in such a cheap way.
 
#39 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

regular partners for doubles TMC qualification is bollocks
 
#40 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

I think most issues have been quite comprehensively covered, so I won't go into them...

What I do take issue with is counting retired matches; i'm pretty sure that the aim of this game is to predict results of tennis matches, not freak accidents/injury aggravations/cramping etc. etc... that would be a completely different (and much more sadistic) game altogether. I'm strongly of the opinion that we don't count retirements at all; how are we supposed to predict that a player will somehow pull a muscle or break a leg or collapse with fatigue... sure you can take their health, fitness... however, this is a really grey area, and discounts freak accidents that often befall players (like Clijsters in AO)

Most importantly, I think this system is most unfair when a player is obviously winning when injury strikes... under the current system, you would have lost that match. Is it fair that matches are decided based on bad luck?

Or is it the prevailing opinion on this issue that it is just too bad, and we should just cop it on the chin....
 
#41 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

I think most issues have been quite comprehensively covered, so I won't go into them...

What I do take issue with is counting retired matches; i'm pretty sure that the aim of this game is to predict results of tennis matches, not freak accidents/injury aggravations/cramping etc. etc... that would be a completely different (and much more sadistic) game altogether. I'm strongly of the opinion that we don't count retirements at all; how are we supposed to predict that a player will somehow pull a muscle or break a leg or collapse with fatigue... sure you can take their health, fitness... however, this is a really grey area, and discounts freak accidents that often befall players (like Clijsters in AO)

Most importantly, I think this system is most unfair when a player is obviously winning when injury strikes... under the current system, you would have lost that match. Is it fair that matches are decided based on bad luck?

Or is it the prevailing opinion on this issue that it is just too bad, and we should just cop it on the chin....
OK, take the other side of it

you win if player A wins and he's dominating his match. He's leading 6-2 4-1 and you are already celebrating. suddenly player B retires because he doesnt feel like continuing anymore and you're out

that would suck if you ask me.

if betting companies accept as regular the unfinished matches, we should do the same
 
#42 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Retirements happen, just like rain delays and my view on that is the result should stand.
 
#43 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

- Entry system- Leave as is
- Draw sizes- Depends on the tourny, for masters series events, they probably should 128 because they will be the only tournament that week and everyone will want to enter but evrything else should be kept to ATP.
- Ranking system- Leave as it is
- Qualifying for the 2007 doubles TMC (regular partners?)- Do the way they are doing it this year with top 16 players picking partner between them
- Davis Cup system- Top 4 players per country like normal rules.
- The use of TB's and CB's- Every match should be a TB so no losing by ranking
- Round Robin format- Try it in adeliade but i really don't want it to be introduced
- Losing by ranking- Every match should be a TB
- LL system- Just for first round
- Late picks- Counts for every match that hasn't started
- Challengers (who can play them?)- top 30 should be restricted from playing challengers
- Counting the retired matches- yes, they should count.
- Can players send in picks for their partners in doubles?- no, could lead to someone with two accounts
 
#44 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

TT board has now made some decisions for next year, here's the first bunch of them:

Draw Sizes

TT will follow the ATP here, with the exception of getting rid of the bye in all of the tournaments. This will mean that there will only be 3 kinds of singles draws next year (for 32, 64 and 128 players). Qualifying draws are normally for 16 players, but for the weeks like Sydney & Auckland (when there's no challengers) the quallies will be extended to 32 players.

Round Robin format

RR won't be brought to TT in 2007, all major tournaments (except WTC and TMC) will use the traditional knock-out format. RR might be tested in some of the 2007 end of the season challengers, if it proves out to be a big hit among ATP.

Losing by ranking

All TT tournaments in 2007 will have 5 TB's in the first round of play (if everything is still tied, the higher ranked will win). This should take care of the problem for good.

LL system

We will drop the current system and change it to the ATP one. LL's will only be used from the singles qualifying, the doubles won't have any LL's.

Late picks

They will be accepted, if they're not in a LL round. One late pick is enough for that player to be replaced with a LL. The pick is late if the match has started (one point is played).

More news to follow in the next few days. Some polls will also be started soon. :wavey:
 
#45 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Ugh.. did you guys even consider the set ratio option or not. First rounds are completely being decided by PTS. That's such bullshit. If I wanted to play PTS I would. You're not rewarding tipping at all. :rolleyes: Great decision.
 
#46 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Ugh.. did you guys even consider the set ratio option or not. First rounds are completely being decided by PTS. That's such bullshit. If I wanted to play PTS I would. You're not rewarding tipping at all. :rolleyes: Great decision.
The use of TB's and CB's question is still undecided, this decision only eliminates the losing by ranking option.
 
#52 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

And you can ask anybody outside the Top 30 in the rankings and they'll say it's better to lose on TB then on ranking.

yeah i agree..
great decision made on having 5 TB in 1st round though!
 
#55 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Oh I think losing by ranking sucks too, I just think there are ways besides PTS to change things. I think losing by PTS sucks too. I make a suggestion and everybody seems to like predicting scores and predicting 5 of them so managers have to calculate all those scores.
 
#63 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

Oh I think losing by ranking sucks too, I just think there are ways besides PTS to change things. I think losing by PTS sucks too. I make a suggestion and everybody seems to like predicting scores and predicting 5 of them so managers have to calculate all those scores.
Why is it better to lose on predicting the set ratios then predicting the scores and set ratios (PTS combines the both)? :shrug:

And you don't have to calculate all the TB's, maybe once in something like 1000 matches...
 
#58 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

anyway .. its worthless n pointless to talk to a retard over such issues

great job on having 5 TBs in the 1st round.. It was a success which was tried out in a recent event ..
 
#60 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

anyway .. its worthless n pointless to talk to a retard over such issues

great job on having 5 TBs in the 1st round.. It was a success which was tried out in a recent event ..
I'm a retard because I have an opinion different than yours? Can't you have a debate without getting personal? :scratch:
 
#65 ·
Re: Tennis Tipping Rules and Changes Thread

i guess somebody mus set up a new game called SET RATIOS for people who simply loves it..

if last season SET RATIOS was avaliable, there will be people now arguing for PTS tiebreakers for this round..

thats how people are..
 
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