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post #136 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Well, you kind a lost of your credibility there. Anyway, as for the rest of your post: no, I don't think the moderation should require a math or Excel whiz. Good grasp of common sense and good knowledge of the forum that is being moderated should be enough. If it's not enough, then something is very wrong.
Knowing how to put three names into Excel doesn't make you a whiz. It just means you have the ability and the will to keep up with your voluntary work. Of course, moderation needs what I put in bold. But people who start saying "this is too hard, we don't wanna change it" when things are obviously upsetting a large part of the community are lazy in my book. Don't you wanna be 100% happy that you're in a community that respects the users as much as respects its topics of discussion? I certainly want that. I agree that some users can turn out to be trash, but Mods should take responsibility into finding out what displeases them and fix it rather than blindly killing them off with rules. Make the rules harsh, but not permanent.

I said this before. If I find a nice little place with a beautiful view to eat my lunch, but right there before entering I find a big sign saying "If you step on the grass 15 times, you're banned from this place" how would I enjoy my lunch? I would eat with fear, fear of not breaking the rules because that view is Oh so perfect. Replace that sign with "Please, take care not to step on the grass as people have worked hard for your enjoyment. And make sure to have a pleasant meal." and my lunch would be splendorous each time.
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post #137 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 03:11 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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"Please, take care not to step on the grass as people have worked hard for your enjoyment. And make sure to have a pleasant meal." and my lunch would be splendorous each time.
And if your neighbor proceeds to make a bonfire out of that sign and take a p**s all over the lawn? Then I guess you will still enjoy your lunch, because the man was only feeling cold and had to take a leak somewhere, so all is well? Anyway, I don't see a large part of the community upset, a week later and no one will care.

“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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post #138 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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And if your neighbor proceeds to make a bonfire out of that sign and take a p**s all over the lawn? Then I guess you will still enjoy your lunch, because the man was only feeling cold and had to take a leak somewhere, so all is well?
I guess you would throw the guy off the cliff, right? So he can never return.

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Anyway, I don't see a large part of the community upset, a week later and no one will care.
Check the Feldman thread, check how this thread started, and notice that by moving it here, no one can see it. All is well in MTF Wonderland. Soon though, the user Slasher1985 will no longer be part of MTF by his own choice, a week later and no one will care.
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post #139 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 03:38 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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I guess you would throw the guy off the cliff, right? So he can never return.
Off the cliff not really, out of the yard most definitely.

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Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
Check the Feldman thread, check how this thread started, and notice that by moving it here, no one can see it. All is well in MTF Wonderland. Soon though, the user Slasher1985 will no longer be part of MTF by his own choice, a week later and no one will care.
Well, that's your choice. Will you come back as DA perhaps?

“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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post #140 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Well, that's your choice. Will you come back as DA perhaps?
Oh please. Do you think I'm a child wanting to draw attention to myself?

I have tried to bring great service to this community by posting my live rankings and striving to make it as close to perfection as I could, and I did so despite the fact that some users found it completely pointless and decided to insult me (I have never reported those users and never will), and if this community lacks the ability to make me feel welcome, not as gratitude for my work, but for its own desire to help others within their own community, I really have no business being here.
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post #141 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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The moderating here is already very lenient, but if things like doping allegations or wishing death won't be punished anymore, then I would be leaving (which I'm sure lots of posters would be happy about ) because that just would be unaccaptable on any forum.
Not really. I can think of other forums I visited that didn't punish that. The thing is people are banned for those reasons when they actually didn't deserve it. If the "Wishing Death" rule stays but it's applied correctly I wouldn't have a problem even though I think it's pointless.

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post #142 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 05:02 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Lenders to be a mod? Tell me you are kidding
I'm pretty sure Slasher is not the only one thinking it would be a good idea, an idea that I'd be more than confident to put the test since there's a lot MTFers posting in a place I moderate (and Slasher isn't one of them) and I'm fairly sure there won't be a single complaint. In fact, a few of them might not even know I'm moderating, which is really the biggest compliment you can ever pay to a mod, they are not supposed to steal the show.

Not that I'd ever accept a moderating position in a website like MTF, where other mods would be 100% sure to make me look bad. I have my pride and I can identify a lost cause.

Nice posts all around, Slasher

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post #143 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 05:29 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

Actually I'd vote for you, if only you didn't obsess with Ferrer and vulturing, but that part disqualifies you right there.

“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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post #144 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 06:20 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Originally Posted by Prodigy. View Post
Nice move by the mods...
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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
I see this thread was moved to ensure it doesn't get the attention it deserves, couldn't the move have been made after activity on the thread died down?
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Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post

On a second note, why was this thread moved here? In order to have less users see it and contribute to it, right? Because, the NT traffic cannot possibly compare with Suggestions section. I would like to thank the Moderator team for this big helping hand once again. I know that the thread titles suggests it be moved here, but this is an important debate that needs to be seen by all.
this thread is about rule changes in this site and rightfully belongs to Suggestions/Feedback section. The mods did exactly the right thing and what happened? Posters claiming they only want to improve the forum complain only because they felt it's an important debate so the mods should bent the rules and keep this in forums which have more traffic.

A more positive way may be to encourage other posters to make their opinion here/keep this thread active, ask admin if they are willing to put an announcement about the discussion of rule changes.

This forum have posters from all over the world with different backgrounds, from different cultures and at various ages. It is extremely hard to moderate and please every posters.

As for permaban or not. How long is the banning period, etc. I haven't made up my mind And I am not sure this is the best time to debate.

My suggestion is every year moderators set up a period of time for debate on rule changes. Over the year, posters may make suggestions about rule changes.
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post #145 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 06:58 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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My suggestion is every year moderators set up a period of time for debate on rule changes. Over the year, posters may make suggestions about rule changes.
Interesting idea.

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post #146 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 07:09 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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this thread is about rule changes in this site and rightfully belongs to Suggestions/Feedback section. The mods did exactly the right thing and what happened? Posters claiming they only want to improve the forum complain only because they felt it's an important debate so the mods should bent the rules and keep this in forums which have more traffic.

A more positive way may be to encourage other posters to make their opinion here/keep this thread active, ask admin if they are willing to put an announcement about the discussion of rule changes.

This forum have posters from all over the world with different backgrounds, from different cultures and at various ages. It is extremely hard to moderate and please every posters.

As for permaban or not. How long is the banning period, etc. I haven't made up my mind And I am not sure this is the best time to debate.

My suggestion is every year moderators set up a period of time for debate on rule changes. Over the year, posters may make suggestions about rule changes.
On paper, this sounds great, but what was the practical effect of moving this thread here? Killing off the discussion basically, which is something mods were well aware would happen. It seems like almost no one on MTF ever studied Law, or even some introductory concepts at all. Bending the rules is sometimes necessary and fairer than abiding by them strictly. This is why we have humans and not bots in positions of authority.

In this case, does this thread belong in this section? Most definitely. Should it have been moved while it was still very active? Absolutely not because it totally killed off the discussion. It's like some of the idiotic thread merges on GM, which only make sense once the topic dies off - something that ironically would make the moderators' job easier.

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post #147 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 07:24 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Oh please. Do you think I'm a child wanting to draw attention to myself?

I have tried to bring great service to this community by posting my live rankings and striving to make it as close to perfection as I could, and I did so despite the fact that some users found it completely pointless and decided to insult me (I have never reported those users and never will), and if this community lacks the ability to make me feel welcome, not as gratitude for my work, but for its own desire to help others within their own community, I really have no business being here.
Given your signature You should make a new banning rules avatar for us



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post #148 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 07:31 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
On paper, this sounds great, but what was the practical effect of moving this thread here? Killing off the discussion basically, which is something mods were well aware would happen. It seems like almost no one on MTF ever studied Law, or even some introductory concepts at all. Bending the rules is sometimes necessary and fairer than abiding by them strictly. This is why we have humans and not bots in positions of authority.

In this case, does this thread belong in this section? Most definitely. Should it have been moved while it was still very active? Absolutely not because it totally killed off the discussion. It's like some of the idiotic thread merges on GM, which only make sense once the topic dies off - something that ironically would make the moderators' job easier.
IIRC, one of the admin here is a lawyer. And I am sure a few posters here are lawyers too.

But my point is, there are always different views to look at things. Moderators are accused of not doing a good job no matter what. There will be complain of not adhering to the rules they set if the don't and there will be complain like the ones I quoted if they do.
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post #149 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 07:48 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

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IIRC, one of the admin here is a lawyer. And I am sure a few posters here are lawyers too.

But my point is, there are always different views to look at things. Moderators are accused of not doing a good job no matter what. There will be complain of not adhering to the rules they set if the don't and there will be complain like the ones I quoted if they do.
What are you on about? There were lots of complaints about this thread being in the wrong section, weren't there? Oh wait, there weren't any. The reason moderators are generally disrespected here has nothing to do with adhering or not adhering to the rules, the reasons were outlined before but I can sum them up again:

-they take big decisions that affect the forum and its members in a significant way unilaterally, without giving members a chance to voice their views;

-they make zero effort to get along with posters for the most part, and feel like distant figures laying down the hammer from a distance;

-the first two reasons can be summed up as: zero empathy.

These are the main reasons. I re-emphasize that moderators are not supposed to be glorified bots detecting infractions and enforcing rules blindly, the degree to which they enforce the rules will have very little, if any, bearing in how respected they are. Their activity is actually counterproductive, it breeds disrespect/contempt, which in turn breeds in more trolling. If what you're saying about one of the admins being a lawyer is true, it only makes it worse because it means there are absolutely no excuses for this mindless activity that passes around here as moderation.

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Suicide Tennis (5): Wimbledon 2014, World Tour Finals 2015, Madrid 2015, Kuala Lumpur 2014 and Metz 2015 - 1 Slam, 1 WTF, 1 Masters 1000, 2 ATP 250; 2 finals lost

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Tennis Tipping (3): Veneza and Todi 2014 (with vn01), Knoxville 2015 (with Redkop) - 3 challengers; 7 finals lost
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post #150 of 160 (permalink) Old 03-29-2013, 07:49 PM
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Re: Change of banning rules debate

I only want to quote what GSMnadal posted in the unban Feldman thread.
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The discriminatory three strike rule needs to be revised in my opinion.

Right now every comment with a hint of discrimination is treated in the same way, I believe? But there are different degrees of discriminatory remarks. I heard what he said to get his perma, and that was in no way meant to be discriminatory. Anyone that vaguely understands what's being said in the heat of the moment would agree.

Insulting? Yes.
Out of frustration? Yes.
Because he was pushed by several other posters? Yes.

But was the goal of his post to make it look like people from the Balkan were lesser in any way? Absolutely not. I don't think there is a way his post could be interpreted in that way. It would be the same as saying 'that stupid cheater Nadal', which would be perfectly acceptable on here and is being posted like every five minutes. Difference is with football we're talking about countries instead of individuals, so it looks discriminatory, which is not how it should be taken. His frustration was towards the football teams, not the Balkan people.

Keep the three strike rule? Fine. But learn the difference between actually discriminating and an innocent comment like Mikey's.

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