Rio Olympics - MensTennisForums.com

 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-26-2015, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,445
                     
Rio Olympics

This might be a bit early, but I thought it might be useful to have an Olympics thread, where we can keep an eye on who is likely to be qualified, and other relevant news.

So with to start the basics:

1. Australia can have up to four singles players, and up to two doubles teams, with a maximum of six players per country in total.

2. Singles players get in on the basis of ranking as at 6 June 2016.

3. Top ten doubles players get entry (with a player of their choice), plus fourteen teams based on rankings (ie singles or doubles ranking of each player).

4. Mixed doubles has to come from within the six nominees, twelve teams based on rankings.

5. Players need to have been nominated for three Davis Cup ties since 2012 Olympics, including one this year or next (with some possibility of a waiver where depth of team means don't get selected, people racing up the ranks etc).

Aim should obviously be to get a full team of six up, including ideally two doubles teams. Fielding one team (ie Peers plus ?) looks possible; getting two in would require a considerable ranking improvement (maybe a case for vulturing some challenger points as a cushion for Groth and Kokk while they are still outside top 50 and can do it without too much fuss!). Fielding five players in total looks very doable, but six would require Peers to play with someone outside the top singles group.

In terms of the DC qualification, as far as I can see Tomic, Kyrgios, Groth and Kokkinakis have all met the requirement. Ebden and Matosevic would need to play a tie next year to make the one in 2015 or 2016 criteria; anyone else would need an exemption.

On my calculations, if the Olympics were selected on last week's rankings, Tomic, Kyrgios and Groth would be in (assuming all the players within the top four for each country can meet the DC qualification rule) but not Kokkinakis (cut off is Gulbis at 68); Peers would be in for doubles provided nominates another (ranked) Australian of his choice as partner.

Forecasts this far out not that meaningful, but current points for 6 June would add Millman to the list (though not qualified in terms of DC); overall cutoff of 78.
Kateoz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 12:49 AM
Registered User
 
Daniel.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 396
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

I love Olympic years because it really makes the year focus on playing for your country. We see more of a commitment to Davis Cup and we see teams from the same country play doubles a lot together in preparation for the Olympic event.
I expect Peers / Murray will separate next year and Jamie will play with Andy more, and Peers will play with Groth. This will facilitate him joining the Davis Cup team in Lleyton's place, and they'll play a number of tournaments together leading in to the Olympics. I suspect he and Jamie will get back together after that. May be they'll still play slams together next year but I definitely expect them to mix it up a bit.
I don't think Tomic will care too much for a doubles spot in the Olympics. Based on current situation I would predict Peers / Groth and Kyrgios / Kokkinakis.
Daniel. is offline  
post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 09-27-2015, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,445
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel. View Post
I love Olympic years because it really makes the year focus on playing for your country. We see more of a commitment to Davis Cup and we see teams from the same country play doubles a lot together in preparation for the Olympic event.

I expect Peers / Murray will separate next year and Jamie will play with Andy more, and Peers will play with Groth. This will facilitate him joining the Davis Cup team in Lleyton's place, and they'll play a number of tournaments together leading in to the Olympics. I suspect he and Jamie will get back together after that. May be they'll still play slams together next year but I definitely expect them to mix it up a bit.

I don't think Tomic will care too much for a doubles spot in the Olympics. Based on current situation I would predict Peers / Groth and Kyrgios / Kokkinakis.
Not sure it will be quite as simple as that.

First, in terms of Peers, to get into the Olympics, needs to retain his top ten standing - given how well he and Peers are doing, playing with Groth (or anyone else) is a big risk. Also doubt Andy will want to go deep in slams in doubles in the lead up.

So I can see Peers and Jamie sticking together at least for the Slams and Masters. Would allow Peers to play a few lower level tournies with an Australian or two to test out which partnership might work best.

Agree Tomic won't be interested, he's crap at doubles. Kyrgios not all that much better though (run with Sock notwithstanding).

Personally I think going on this year's form and recent matches at least Kokkinakis is the next best doubles player, not Groth. But will be interesting to see what happens to rankings as they all gear up to play a bit more doubles...
Kateoz is offline  
post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 12:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 12
 
Re: Rio Olympics

Bit left field, but whats the chances Peers (if inside top 10) plays a bit with Smith next year and olympics? Have won plenty of challenger titles together and a few slam first rounds i think. At least they would know each others game...
Leaderman is offline  
post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,445
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaderman View Post
Bit left field, but whats the chances Peers (if inside top 10) plays a bit with Smith next year and olympics? Have won plenty of challenger titles together and a few slam first rounds i think. At least they would know each others game...
Interesting idea, and has obvious advantages in terms of knowing each others games a bit (though presumably both have developed a bit since they last played together!).

But I think Peers would be keen to play with someone who he would have a greater chance of going deep or even getting a medal with, and pretty sure JP isn't that. JP is currently the eleventh ranked Australian in doubles, at 190. Even if he played a few more matches to get back into top 100, can't really see him lifting to the extent necessary for the team to be serious contenders.

From a medal prospects point of view, I'd think better option would be for Peers to play with either Kokkinakis or Groth (assuming Groth gets out of his current doubles form slump and they jelled as a team), or even Kyrgios.

So I'd suggest best possible combos, though obviously subject to testing out how well they play together (could have a play off outside an ATP match?):

1. Peers-Kokk; Groth-Kyrgios

Two best dubs players together; second team should have the ranking to get in (assuming Kyrgios stays motivated and gets his ranking up to reflect something closer to his real playing level and Groth continues to move up rankings a bit). Second team success depends on Groth getting out of doubles slump and Kyrgios learning how to be an effective doubles player, but at least potentially achievable - and if they jelled, could be a formidable combo.

2. Peers-Groth; Kokk-Kyrgios

Young guns vs more seasoned?! Could work, just need the special Ks to rediscover that junior Wimbly magic (which they haven't on their tour outings so far) and they could be genuine contenders. Kokk-Kyrgios would need to improve their rankings a bit to get in, but not more than would reasonably expect them to.

3. Peers-Kyrgios; Kokk-Groth

Two not so obvious combos that might just work. Excellent dubs player with best singles player, and two very solid dubs players (Groth form slump notwithstanding) who are both improving as players. Main issue will be whether or not Kokk-Groth will have improved their rankings (singles and/or doubles) enough to get in though.

Personally I like the idea of trying out Kokk-Groth as a team as it has some obvious utility as a DC option, but whether the two would come at that is a different matter.
Kateoz is offline  
post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 01:11 AM
Registered User
 
B.kelly123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 831
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kateoz View Post
Interesting idea, and has obvious advantages in terms of knowing each others games a bit (though presumably both have developed a bit since they last played together!).

But I think Peers would be keen to play with someone who he would have a greater chance of going deep or even getting a medal with, and pretty sure JP isn't that. JP is currently the eleventh ranked Australian in doubles, at 190. Even if he played a few more matches to get back into top 100, can't really see him lifting to the extent necessary for the team to be serious contenders.

From a medal prospects point of view, I'd think better option would be for Peers to play with either Kokkinakis or Groth (assuming Groth gets out of his current doubles form slump and they jelled as a team), or even Kyrgios.

So I'd suggest best possible combos, though obviously subject to testing out how well they play together (could have a play off outside an ATP match?):

1. Peers-Kokk; Groth-Kyrgios

Two best dubs players together; second team should have the ranking to get in (assuming Kyrgios stays motivated and gets his ranking up to reflect something closer to his real playing level and Groth continues to move up rankings a bit). Second team success depends on Groth getting out of doubles slump and Kyrgios learning how to be an effective doubles player, but at least potentially achievable - and if they jelled, could be a formidable combo.

2. Peers-Groth; Kokk-Kyrgios

Young guns vs more seasoned?! Could work, just need the special Ks to rediscover that junior Wimbly magic (which they haven't on their tour outings so far) and they could be genuine contenders. Kokk-Kyrgios would need to improve their rankings a bit to get in, but not more than would reasonably expect them to.

3. Peers-Kyrgios; Kokk-Groth

Two not so obvious combos that might just work. Excellent dubs player with best singles player, and two very solid dubs players (Groth form slump notwithstanding) who are both improving as players. Main issue will be whether or not Kokk-Groth will have improved their rankings (singles and/or doubles) enough to get in though.

Personally I like the idea of trying out Kokk-Groth as a team as it has some obvious utility as a DC option, but whether the two would come at that is a different matter.
Kokkinakis is a bit underrated as a dubs player in terms of Aussie combos, would like to see him playing more with guys like Groth and even Peers. The combo of Peers' great dubs skills and Kokk's ever improving power game could really work.

Thanasi KOKKinakis - BerNARD Tomic - Nick Kyrgios - Alexander Zverev -Taylor Harry Fritz - MILOs Raonic
100% biased supporter of the Aussies

I just wanna drive my Ferrari in Miami, tbh.
B.kelly123 is offline  
post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 02:27 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 12
 
Re: Rio Olympics

I actually think Smith is one of our best doubles players. He has obviously decided to concentrate on singles this year and thats why his ranking is down at 190. While he was playing he was consistently between 60-70. I think if he concentrated on doubles only he would easily get into the top 30.

Smith has won doubles titles with a lot of different people, and he was nearly always the better player when he and groth were playing together. He was also the #1 doubles player most of his college career too.

I would rate our top few doubles players as peers, kokk and smith.
Leaderman is offline  
post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,445
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaderman View Post
I actually think Smith is one of our best doubles players. He has obviously decided to concentrate on singles this year and thats why his ranking is down at 190. While he was playing he was consistently between 60-70. I think if he concentrated on doubles only he would easily get into the top 30.

Smith has won doubles titles with a lot of different people, and he was nearly always the better player when he and groth were playing together. He was also the #1 doubles player most of his college career too.

I would rate our top few doubles players as peers, kokk and smith.
Have to say I'm pretty sceptical about that claim for Smith. I have to admit that although I do have a vague recollection of watching him play doubles once, I don't particularly remember it, but from the stats:

1. He was actually more consistently in the 70-80 range, not 60-70 (only made it under 70 in five ranking periods, and then only to 68-69), so Guccione for example still looks in front of him.

2. Has had very little success at tour level and no real sign of improving: 2013, 3-4; 2014: 4-6; 2015: 5-7.

3. The tour level matches he has won have mostly been with partners with serious doubles credentials - Peers, Hanley, GGL in 2013 for example.

Currently I'd put Junaid way ahead of him on the numbers, and someone to watch and consider given he actually seems to be improving. 2013: 3-6; 2014: 8-15; 2015: 15:14.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B.kelly123 View Post
Kokkinakis is a bit underrated as a dubs player in terms of Aussie combos, would like to see him playing more with guys like Groth and even Peers. The combo of Peers' great dubs skills and Kokk's ever improving power game could really work.
Agreed. He's obviously had the advantage of playing with some pretty good players this year, but if you actually watched those matches, he more than kept up his end. And managed to pull off some good results with lesser ranked players too, as at RG with Pouille (they were pretty unlucky to meet the Bryans in r2, even so managed to take it to two tiebreaks).

Last edited by Kateoz; 10-03-2015 at 03:26 AM.
Kateoz is offline  
post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 03:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 12
 
Re: Rio Olympics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kateoz View Post
Have to say I'm pretty sceptical about that claim for Smith. I have to admit that although I do have a vague recollection of watching him play doubles once, I don't particularly remember it, but from the stats:

1. He was actually more consistently in the 70-80 range, not 60-70 (only made it under 70 in five ranking periods, and then only to 68-69), so Guccione for example still looks in front of him.

2. Has had very little success at tour level and no real sign of improving: 2013, 3-4; 2014: 4-6; 2015: 5-7.

3. The tour level matches he has won have mostly been with partners with serious doubles credentials - Peers, Hanley, GGL in 2013 for example.

Currently I'd put Junaid way ahead of him on the numbers, and someone to watch and consider given he actually seems to be improving. 2013: 3-6; 2014: 8-15; 2015: 15:14.
1. You are much better on stats than i am, so i take your point.

2. dont think he has played that many doubs games this year, but i refer to your stats prowess and give that to you. Although no one will improve their stats if they arent playing much. (junaid has obviuosly started to play doubs full time as can be seen in his increase in play)

3. Dont really agree with that. only because you could say the same for most other aussies playing doubs (including junaid, groth etc)

I have watched plenty of aussie guys play doubles (i prefer doubles) either in college, challenger or atp, and i still stand by my claim that smith is one of our top doubs players. his doubles positioning and awareness are better than most. He just needs a bit more killer instinct on his volleys. However he will not rise in the rankings unless he decides to play mainly doubles instead of singles (what peers did after college).

Im still not sure how groth has become our go to guy for doubles, because aside from his dream run at the french, and a 250 win in south america at a tournament that would be better off a challenger he hasnt done too much.

Anyway, its only my 2 cents worth and I also think the DC team should be trying out peers and kokk next year. (Unless Smith gives up singles for a doubles career )

Last edited by Leaderman; 10-03-2015 at 03:50 AM.
Leaderman is offline  
post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 04:17 AM
Registered User
 
Daniel.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 396
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

I remember watching Marc Kimmich beat Rameez Junaid in the AO WC play-off many many centuries ago. And they had highlights on that tv show "Slam!" hosted by Josh Eagle.. haha.

Big Junaid fan here.

Unfortunately for Junaid, he never seems to bank high profile doubles partners and he chops and changes around a lot. If he could form a solid partnership like Peers did with Murray, he could be a strong candidate for Davis Cup and Olympics. I remember Junaid played a tournament or two with Aisem Qureshi, Junaid has Pakistani background. So he would be a good option.

Last edited by Daniel.; 10-03-2015 at 04:20 AM.
Daniel. is offline  
post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-03-2015, 04:38 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,445
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaderman View Post
1. You are much better on stats than i am, so i take your point.

2. dont think he has played that many doubs games this year, but i refer to your stats prowess and give that to you. Although no one will improve their stats if they arent playing much. (junaid has obviuosly started to play doubs full time as can be seen in his increase in play)

3. Dont really agree with that. only because you could say the same for most other aussies playing doubs (including junaid, groth etc)

I have watched plenty of aussie guys play doubles (i prefer doubles) either in college, challenger or atp, and i still stand by my claim that smith is one of our top doubs players. his doubles positioning and awareness are better than most. He just needs a bit more killer instinct on his volleys. However he will not rise in the rankings unless he decides to play mainly doubles instead of singles (what peers did after college).

Im still not sure how groth has become our go to guy for doubles, because aside from his dream run at the french, and a 250 win in south america at a tournament that would be better off a challenger he hasnt done too much.

Anyway, its only my 2 cents worth and I also think the DC team should be trying out peers and kokk next year. (Unless Smith gives up singles for a doubles career )
I'll make a point of watching Smith next doubles opportunity and come back to you after that! But just a couple of things.

Junaid has been playing lots of matches pretty consistently, the number I quoted are just his tour level results. Back in mid-2013 when he and Smith were at around the same rank in the 70-80 range, both were playing a full doubles load.

On number of tournaments, JP has played 13 tournaments this year to make 190 - but Bolt for example has only played 14, and is at 157. And Ebden isn't a bad doubles player either.

In terms of Groth, I agree using him for doubles at DC was absolutely the wrong decision given his crap form this year. Not saying we definitely would have won with a Hewitt-Kokk combo for example, but certainly would have had a better chance in my opinion.

But Groth certainly can be a decent dubs player when he's on. And he did look like he was going somewhere doubles wise last year. Aside from the Bogota win and the RG SF run, three tour finals - two 250s, and Washington 500 (and of course has a stack of challenger titles going back years). Made it to dubs ranking of 24 deservedly in my view, and will probably get back up at least that far and probably better when he finds a partner he jells with.

Mind you, my money is on Kokk winning a doubles grand slam at some point (possibly even before he wins a singles one, a la Hewitt), whereas I'm not entirely sure I see Groth pulling that off, though I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

Have to admit that the biggest potential problem with a Peers-Groth combo in my view is two with a tendency to choke playing together...
Kateoz is offline  
post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-11-2015, 12:00 AM
Registered User
 
B.kelly123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 831
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Kyrgios and Tomic are playing dubs together at Shanghai, have Pospisil-Sock first up. That sure would be an unlikely Rio combination...

Thanasi KOKKinakis - BerNARD Tomic - Nick Kyrgios - Alexander Zverev -Taylor Harry Fritz - MILOs Raonic
100% biased supporter of the Aussies

I just wanna drive my Ferrari in Miami, tbh.
B.kelly123 is offline  
post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-14-2015, 06:29 AM
Moderator
 
Arsenalex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 14,182
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Bernie and Nick (of all people) look like an excellent team. Surprisingly patient, and they've knocked out Pospisock
Arsenalex is offline  
post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-14-2015, 06:42 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,445
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenalex View Post
Bernie and Nick (of all people) look like an excellent team. Surprisingly patient, and they've knocked out Pospisock
I'm not sure I'd read too much into that. Pop-Sock probably still tired from Beijing, plus sounds like they were ultra relaxed with the pressure off. Not sure you could do this kind of thing in DC or Olympic type situation (from Canberra Times):

Quote:
This was Masters 1000 tennis as you might not know it. This was rock-paper-scissors determining who would return serve at deuce in the penultimate game. This was golf practice with racquets during a medical time-out. This, late on a cool Shanghai afternoon, was the warmly entertaining double(s) act of Nick Kyrgios and Bernard Tomic....

The Australians, doubles part-timers who had each won just three matches with different partners all season, wore matching black-and-white Nike, served thunderously, played up to the crowd, and – back-slappingly – with each other. As well as the requisite fist-bumping between points, there was a jovial lack of earnestness balanced by some quality shot-making before a packed and appreciative court-four house.

Kyrgios, so irritated by cameramen and ballkids and much else that punctuated his first-round singles win over Andreas Haider-Maurer on Monday, was jaunty and relaxed; Tomic, who has had his own dramas in recent months, was similarly chilled in the lower-stakes, lower-key setting.

When a Kyrgios winner converted the pair's initial set point in the tiebreak, his older partner was mock-reverential. After ripping a forehand return winner for 15-40 at 5-5 in the second set, Tomic turned to see his mate frozen in rigid disbelief/awe. One suspects, though, that Sock and Pospisil, both with top 20 doubles rankings, might have been slightly less impressed.

"They've just come from winning (in Beijing), so it's tough for them," said Tomic. "They have to come here, they have two days (to prepare) and we're serving good, so it's tough for them. It's not really doubles, it's just serve."...
Kateoz is offline  
post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-14-2015, 11:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,879
                     
Re: Rio Olympics

Gotta love Bernie's on court attitude

Tomic, Matosevic, Groth, Jones, JP Smith, Matty Reid, Barton, Duckworth, Whittington, Kubler, Kyrgios, Bolt, Kokkinakis, Polansky and James Ward
Go Aussie
RustyOz is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome