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Automachia Tennis

6K views 74 replies 7 participants last post by  Diadochi 
#1 · (Edited)
Bored of playing games where you have to predict the results of matches involving players you barely care about? Tired of stumbling around Challengers hoping for a lucky break? Want to step out onto the court yourself and compete for Masters, Grand Slams and Davis Cup? Then this is the game for you.

Introducing what might become the most complicated but most fun game on MTF (which currently lacks a name)

-Build your own tennis player, balancing out his weakness in some areas with strengths in others.
-Play a 21-Week Season encompassing the 9 Masters, 4 Slams, DC and WTF
-Plan your strategy before matches to beat brawn with brains, changing your Aim, Power and Effort to counter the tactics of your opponent.
-Surround your player with a team of coaches, trainers and staff to optimise his body and his game.

1. Match Mechanics

Your Player has Eight attributes which can be increased over time, but can also degrade:

Strength-The overall power of your player, this will affect his number of Aces, Winners and Forced Errors
Speed-How quickly your player moves across the court. A higher speed will reduce the number of Winners and Aces your opponent can get past you.
Serve Technique-How skilfully you serve, this may result in more Aces and fewer Double Faults.
Likewise we have both Forehand and Backhand Technique
Reflexes-How quickly your player reacts, this will reduce Aces, Winners, Unforced Errors and Forced Errors against your player.
Endurance-How your player copes over time, a higher endurance will stop his game degrading during the match.
Mentality-How strong your player is mentally, this will reduce the chance of his psychology taking a swing for the worse in each set.

The Tournaments will operate on 8-hour cycles, in which time you can send your strategy to the tournament manager(s). This will consist of:

Serve Speed-How quickly you decide to Serve, whilst this may lead to more Aces, the Double Fault Count will rise.
Aggressiveness-How much Power you apply to your shots, like Serve Speed, this may increase Winners and Forced Errors, but will also lead to your own Unforced Error Count Increasing.
Effort-How much energy you will put into chasing down balls; although your Forced Errors and Winners will go down, this will cause greater Fatigue, which may have consequences later on in the match.
Aim-How much you will target your opponent's weak spots: although this may result in more Forced Errors and Unforced Errors on the part of your opponent, you may suffer if you push yourself beyond your technique-level.

This will then be combined with the following factors, individual to each tournament:

Court Speed-How fast the Court is, faster courts will benefit players who rely on Winners, whilst slower courts will favour Speed-based players.
Environment-How much Fatigue the temperature and humidity gives.


These factors will be multiplied together to create a score for the following:

Aces
Double Faults
Winners
Unforced Errors
Forced Errors

These scores will then be converted into percentages of the points won on each player's serve. If the percentage of receiving points exceeds a certain amount, there will be a break, and obviously whoever has the most breaks (or most points in the event of a tie break) will win the set. After this Players have until the end of the next eight-hour cycle to send their strategy for the next set to the manager(s). If players do not send picks they will be put on default settings, with no pros or cons, although if they fail to send at all for two consecutive matches they will be disqualified from the tournament.

These are what the formulae look like so far:


n=Negative Effect (This can either be a direct negative i.e. Aggressive Serving or the inverse of a skill like Reflexes)
ST=Serve Technique
XT=Technique of shot being played
PS=Player Speed
BS=Ball Speed (StrengthxCourt Speed)
R=Reflexes


Point-----------------Server----------Receiver
Double Fault-----------nST--------------n/a---
Ace-----------------ST x BS-------------nR----

---------------------Winner of Point-Loser of Point
Unforced Error---------n/a--------------nXT-
Winner--------------XT x BS-------------nR x nS
Forced Error------- BS x XT x PS----nXT x nR x nPS

All of these would be multiplied by the respective players' tactical choices
2. Inter-Match Mechanics:

The Following would effect players in between matches:

Fatigue: Fatigue will build up in a match due to the court conditions and exertion during the match. This will decrease to 20% of the original value at the start of the next match.

Injuries: At the end of each match, and each week, the player will have a chance of being injured. This can range from a small injury to one which can take the player out for a whole season.
3. Seasons:

The Tour will be divided into 22-Week seasons, consisting of:

9 Masters-These won't necessarily be the ones currently on the Tour, they will be balanced to even out the distribution between surfaces, and the locations may change to match the players in the game.

4 Grand Slams-Whilst AO, RG and Wimbledon will remain the same, the US Open may be moved due to over-representation of the US.

1 World Tour Final-Operating the same as in the Tour, this will move continent each year, situated in the most successful country of that continent, in the order: EU, ASIA, AUS, AFR, SA, NA

2 Weeks of Davis Cup: This will change depending on participation, but for now will consist of Zonal Competition e.g. South America, North America, Europe, Asia/Australasia. The two weeks would consist of one week of initial rounds, either knockout or round robin depending on numbers, and one week of finals.

This calendar is subject to change depending on participation.


This might become a huge project and I need the following help:

Managers for Tournaments
People Mathematically Gifted to figure out the numbers, particularly with court speeds and fatigue.
Maybe a Programmer who could make a programme to calculate this attributes rather than having to calculate them by hand each time.


Also if you could comment below whether you'd be interested we could then get this started.
 
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#40 ·
I dont make any formula to work this but you'll understand where I'm coming from.

Initially, real life players are obviously going to be bashing around 17 year old kids. But you have to be smart enough to defeat them, and it will help later on to establish yourself as the latest 'rising star'. Im going to look at some interesting points and tell me what you think.

1. Measuring attributes to start with
There are the 8 attributes to start with. For my scale, attributes are measured in percent. 100% equals perfect - no one is perfect, even like Djokovic best stat would be about 91%, his average stat maybe 82%. Basically above 80% is really good, and a serious weapon. I think when a new player joins as 17yo, they have been building their game 10 years before the game, therefore they can choose their attributes. However, they have a maximum of 400% to choose from initially. You could get 100 strength, but then your game will be awful and you hit everything out. With your coach you make particular decisions - if you decide midway in the season that you didnt get enough pace to your player, work on it with your coach HOWEVER too much focus here decrease other attributes. With age, you get naturally better physically etc. etc. let me know of any flaws here.

2. Coaching staff - Accumulation of Prze Money
Of course you will at some stage need more accomplished coaching staff. i think you should have to buy them, with prize money. There will be two ways to make money - Sponsorship (as you improve you get more) and Prize. Here's an example of prize money (all $US):
Masters - R32 = $10000, R16 $25000, QF $100000, SF $250000, F $500000, W $1M
Slams - multiply each by 2
There are two ways to spend this money:
1. Get better coaches. Your game improves faster
2. Start a charity e.g. '_RAMIREZ_ foundation'. The more successful (ie more money you invest) the higher reputation, you get worldwide fans who support you more.

3. New suggestion
A new in between match factor - confidence. If you win more (over good players) your confidence shall rise, you will continue to play better, and your game will improve. Likewise, if you lose often, or mess up a match you should have won, you will struggle to improve, and continue to slump. Dont worry, there will be other ways to improve confidence besides matches (because otherwise you may go into eternal slump), these could include coaches, and time away from the game.

One thing i Really like compared to TT - in TT its very random, here once you establish your player, its easier to keep performing and you dont have such random results. Of course though, if you set your player with inconsistent attributes, it will still be random, but i will balance mine

Speak to you soon Diadochi, tell me what you think
 
#42 ·
Really like all of this actually, I'd good to get some actual numbers on the attributes, the only problem is that with serve, it you're starting from a base level of say 50%, this means you're going to get a dtupidly high Double Fault rate, and this is something we need to fix in the formulae.

In terms of prizes money, I'd definitely thought about adding it and agree that it should be a factor. After a couple of seasons I plan on adding extra options to the teams i.e. PR people, Lawyers. I like the idea of the charities, but we need to make some sort of sponsorship mechanic, we can't just have a mod going round saying "you got sponsored"!

The idea of confidence is brilliant, it'd be especially good to have some sort of scale based on how good the player you just defeated was. Maybe if confidence, like fatigue, returned to a middle-ground over time, this might stop downward spirals and the like.

If you could help with cataloging stuff that'd be great, and we don't have to worry about the board for a while, Pratik hasn't been around for a while, but I assume he's beavering away somewhere. If you want to be on the board you can too, honestly as long as it's not too large we can have a relatively well-sized group.
 
#44 ·
The mental bit is easy enough, at the start of each set we'd do a dice roll to determine the player's mentality in the next set. If the player has a strong Mentality, his chance of melting down is smaller, then we could factor in Confidence and Fatigue to that.
 
#45 ·
For environment - I think we can make more from it. Take the wind of that day (its not real life time, generate wind randomly) Players can take advantage or not. Maybe we could tell the players the weather of the day in the thread (real tennis players know the conditions theyll be playing in) and they can factor strategy with it. also players with better technique withstand wind better.

Best not to go into rain, that will complicate things, just assume there's some magic that in never rains in Automachia Land. Just heat and wind. Near the coast tournaments are windier and cooler, behind mountain ranges not much wind at ground level. Australian and Indian open will be very hot, Wimbledon and French not so much
 
#46 ·
I think that this would be a good mechanic to implement maybe in the second season of this, as it is we're struggling enough with our current mechanics, but this is definitely an idea worth considering.
 
#47 ·
So Maths aint my strong point, and Im not sure I completely understand how our current formula works. If you could write a paragraph maybe to elaborate further on the formula so far in words I can try comprehend it, maybe even add in some stuff you guys thought about the other day
 
#48 ·
Okay, sure, I've altered them a little bit, which I was going to elaborate on anyway:

So there are 5 types of points: Aces, Double Faults, Unforced Errors, Winners and Forced Errors:

Aces are calculated by the Server's Service Technique multiplied by his Strength, then divided by the opponent's Reflexes.

Winners are calculated by the Winner's Strength multiplied by his Technique and divided by the loser's Speed and Reflexes.

Forced Errors are calculated by the Winner's Strength, Technique and Speed and Divided by the Opponent's Technique, Speed and Reflexes.

In essence, having higher Strength and Technique helps with winning all three of those points, having higher Speed helps with preventing oneself from losing those sorts of points.

For Unforced Errors and Aces I'm going to use a new formula:

If the Player's Service Technique is at 90-100% his UE Score is 3, if it's 80-90% it's 6 and so on until a maximum score of 30 in 0-10%

If the Player's Forehand/Backhand Technique is 90-100% his UE Score for that stroke is 3.5, multiplying in the same way.
 
#50 ·
So as I said earlier, those attributes will all be player chosen, average attribute for one being 50% (for my example the player divides his 400 points into 8x50%) which in turn means if their serve tech was standard 50%, 15 faults, which is maybe 4/5 DFs in that set.

So with the 8 attributes, I suggest when they send their picks, they send their attributes FOR THAT SET out of 400% for the 4 strategies (the reason for this is i will later multiply, and 50% x 50% is 25%, so average the sent picks at 100% so average serve tech is 50% rather than a very low 25%). In a minute, I will make a match instance
 
#51 · (Edited)
PLAYER A vs PLAYER B

Heres how their starting attributes weigh up:
STRENGTH: 50 vs 60
SPEED: 50 vs 45
SERVE TECH.: 50 vs 70
FH: 50 vs 45
BH: 50 vs 40
REFLEX: 50 vs 40
ENDURANCE: 50 vs 50
MENTAL: 50 vs 50

Here's how they sent their strategy:
A
Serve speed 100
Agressive 100
Effort 100
Aim 100
B
130
75
125
70

The 4 strategy factors dont all apply to everything, however some do.
Strength < Serve Speed > Serve Technique
Agressive > Strength(NE), Speed, Serve Technique (NE), FH (NE), BH (NE), Endurance (NE)
Effort and aim works on all attributes (except aim does not have to do with the last 3 attributes)

Before I go on, I need your help on the subject of 'negative effect (NE)' which confuses me.
 
#52 ·
Also this:
Agressiveness > Aim, Serve Speed
Effort does not come into contact with other strategy aspects.

Agressiveness is something which effects both Aim and SS (through its effect on Strength and Endurance), so it along with effort are the more important things to consider
 
#53 ·
Something I understand - of 5 categories there is one that comes out as the easiest. Double faults, only have to do with the one player. The hard part is dtermining whether it is a double fault. It could just be a single fault.

Heres how i find the important aspect of a double fault: I take the example using Player A from before, the 'average' player. The 'average player' should be making around 3-4 double faults a set. Serve Speed and agressiveness increase faults, so multiply them. Then divide that by Serve Technique. Player A has 1x1 = 1 then /0.5 which leaves it at 2.
 
#54 ·
I think this would mean Player A has 2 DF and 1 DF if you are accepting of my double fault formula. There may be other things you want to consider

The next best thing to work out is unforced errors, they also are not dependant on opponent. I expect 'average player' to make around 10+, so thats what I will look for in formula.

Some things positive to prevent: Strength
Negative: Agressiveness
Things that can be positive or negative, depending how high: FH/BH technique, Effort, Aim
 
#55 ·
Take FH first. Player A has the same FH/BH technique, which leads to same UE on each side. Strength must be divided because the stronger, the better you are at preventing Whereas Aggressiveness is a much harder theory, it could be above or below 100%. More aggressive = more UE, so multiply is the best option.

Strength is minor, make 1/2 strength relevant. So so far you have: 1 divided by 1/2 Strength x Aggressiveness. Thats 4, in A's case.

Aim over FH Technique should be a package, the higher the aim the more UE risk, the higher the FH technique, the less UE. Player A's case has this as: Aim(1) over FH(0.5) = 2\

Then divide by effort. In this case, A has 6 UE on FH. 6 UE on Backhand. 12 in total. This will last 50 points (or end of set) as I will explain next post
 
#56 ·
What I was going to do was basically have 5 Settings for each Tactic, an each time you went up a level if would increase something in favour of something else, i.e. If you aimed at your opponent's backhand side you might change the spectrum of points to 60% backhand 40% forehand, but maybe multiplying your UE score by 1.5,

Unforced Errors should work like Double Faults, and I explained it above, as again in theory it's simply the result of one player's failings in Technique.

With the whole Double Fault problem I was going to make another formula to figure out serve percentages, then give some sort of detraction on Strength depending on the First serve percentage.

In the formulae Negatve effect just means divided by and I'm going to alter that.
 
#57 ·
This next post, my final part of this long book I have written here :lol: explains how we may be able to use points to make a realistic match, including the randomness and luck factor.

Imagine it sets like this: A has 5 Aces, 2 DF, 14 Winners, 12 UE and 7 FE
B has 9 Aces, 3DF, 17 Winners, 15 UE and 3 FE

87 points are registered here. The results set above are not final, luck will have its say, because the set will not be 87 points.

Heres how we make a point by point analysis of what happens. The outcomes will be written down somewhere, or in the managers head. They will be as such code:position 1 - A=Player A, B=Player B.
Position 2 - A=ace, D=double, W=winner, U=unforced, F=forced

Keeping consistent, the pattern will keep going in an order until something runs out. e.g. AA, BA, AD, BD, AW, BW, AU, BU, AF, BF, AA, BA, AD, BD, AW, BW, AU, BU, AF, BF, AA, BA, BD, AW etc...
*note bolded - A only has 2 Dfs registered, since 'AD' has appeared twice already, the sequence skips it. So with the example, 86 and 87 in the sequence will both be 'BW'

now use random.org - first randomise 1 and 2, to see who serves. In the instance, '1' ia always the player on the higher level of the draw. Imagine Player A serves first. randomise 1 to 87. If the answer is 12, the outcome is B Ace, this is impossible. ignore and start again. This time you get 7 - A unforced. The first point of the match, A hits an unforced. you then cross out 7, if you ever randomise 1 to 87 and its 7, ignore and go again.

Keep randomising, until you reach a point where the set is over. Post the score of the set in the thread, tell the player to send his next strategy.

If he sends no strategy - his previous day's strategy to be used

I hope you like my book, tell me what you think of it all :lol:

There is one catch - on day1 and 2, there will be 8 matches in action, it may take managers half an hour to do this. Of course if you are pro-active enough, you could make and record the result as soon as you receive the PMs of both players, it will take a while to do all in one go
 
#59 ·
I'm going to post a Sign-Up Thread this evening, if anyone else has anything to contribute, feel free to, from there the rules will be set for the first season at least.
 
#61 ·
Code:
		Djokovic	Federer	Murray	Nadal	Wawrinka	Nishikori	Berdych 	Ferrer	Raonic
Serve Technique		70	83	71	66	79	64	73	60	91
FH		87	92	82	94	81	83	77	74	68
BH		92	83	86	83	90	84	80	76	64
Strength		81	74	83	82	87	61	83	74	78
Speed		85	83	86	76	72	89	77	88	65
Endurance		96	82	90	89	87	84	85	86	76
Reflexes		84	88	82	89	74	85	75	81	84
Mental		94	96	81	85	74	81	71	86	70
 
#64 ·
Brilliant, thanks Ramirez, I'll copy it all down onto a spreadsheet, plus whatever Alex wants to do too.
 
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