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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

paranoid Russians

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/19/news/shield.php

Quote:
MOSCOW: Poland and the Czech Republic risk being the targets of Russian missiles if they agree to provide sites for a proposed U.S. missile defense system, a Russian general warned Monday.

Russia has been increasingly bellicose in its response to the U.S. proposal to build the missile defense system in Eastern Europe. General Nikolai Solovtsov, head of Russia's missile forces, said the system would upset strategic stability. It would be the first such site in Europe.

"If the governments of Poland and the Czech Republic take such a step," he said, "the Strategic Missile Forces will be capable of targeting these facilities if a relevant decision is made."

President Vladimir Putin has said he does not trust U.S. claims that the system would be to guard the American East Coast and Europe from missiles launched from "rogue nations" in the Middle East.

But on Monday, the Czech prime minister, Mirek Topolanek, said his country and Poland were in favor of the U.S. missile defense proposal.


"I think it is in our joint interest to negotiate this initiative and to build in our area the missile defense," Topolanek said after talks in Warsaw with the Polish prime minister, Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

The bases in Poland and the Czech Republic would be designed to intercept missiles being developed by Iran, U.S. Air Force Lieutenant General Henry Obering, director of the Missile Defense Agency, said last month. Two other bases in Alaska and California would protect the United States from threats from North Korea, Obering said.

Kaczynski brushed aside Russia's fears, saying "the missile defense is not directed against any normal state."

"Any statement suggesting that the missile defense would change the alignment of forces in Europe is a misunderstanding," he said. "This truth is being conveyed to our partners in the west and the east."

A State Department spokesman, Edgar Vasquez, said Monday the United States has worked closely with the Czech and Polish governments to develop the missile defense system and that it was in no way directed at Russia.

"We have offered to cooperate with Russia on missile defense because we believe we face a common threat emanating from the Middle East as well as other areas," Vasquez said.

Solovtsov said he was concerned that the United States, which plans to deploy 10 interceptors in Poland, could increase those numbers in the future.

The general also said it would take Russia less than six years to build upgraded versions of medium range missiles if Moscow decided to pull out of a 1987 agreement with the U.S. that banned their deployment.

"It is not difficult to restore their production," Solovtsov said at a news conference. "The missiles were dismantled, but the production technology has remained."

Russian military officials have said Moscow's decision to pull out of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty would depend on whether the United States went ahead with the missile defense plan. The key arms control agreement was negotiated between the Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev and President Ronald Reagan.

At a European security conference this month, Putin said the treaty was outdated, and that many nations had since developed the medium-range missiles eliminated by Russia and the United States.

Putin has warned that Russia could respond to the deployment of U.S. missile defense in Europe by building new, more efficient weapons. He had previously boasted that Russia was developing new missiles that would be impossible to intercept.

Solovtsov said Russia would continue gradually replacing Soviet-built intercontinental ballistic missiles with new Topol-M missiles and would fully rearm around 2016 while maintaining levels under a 2002 arms control treaty signed by Putin and President George W. Bush. That treaty obliges both sides to cut their strategic nuclear weapons by about two-thirds by 2012. "It's possible to deploy such weapons shortly if the situation requires that," Solovtsov said.

Ivan Safranchuk, director of the Moscow office of the U.S- based Center for Defense Information, said that Russia was using its threat to pull out of the treaty in a bid to force Washington to backtrack on its missile defense plans.

"The calculation is that the Europeans, who stand to lose the most from this, will put pressure on the United States," he said in a telephone interview

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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 09:22 AM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

This system is redandent in Poland. If our Polish politicians have mind and think about our future, then they reject this stupid proposal.
Besides UK troops will withdraw from Iraq soon. I think, that Polish politicians should finish this unecessary coalition with US, as soon, as possible. It gives nothing good to our state.
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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 02:46 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

lol, how long ago did the cold war end?, russia just wants to see themselves as a world power again, then again I dont see what is the benefit of having a missle system in Europe, to protect europeans? , if they want to protect the east coast there are better locations where it could go..

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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 03:02 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

paranoid Americans

Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, Rafael Nadal, All Czechs
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 05:25 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry! View Post
They are not paranoid. I don't support Russians policy, but I think, that they are right in this case. Majority of Polish nation does not support of stupid plans of some members of our government. We want to have peace in our region, no unnecessary conflicts with neighbours and no unfamiliar, hostile, american bases and troops on our terytory. When our president have no source of worry, then he can think, how to create workplaces for Polish people in Poland, not in Ireland or England or Germany.
There is the huge poverty in some regions of the world and if Bush has too much money, then he can give financial, not military support for poor people ( for instance in Africa or South America of course: purpose: humanity aid, not fight agains internal enemy )
By the way. This is the end of cold war ( about 20 years ago ). What for is this organisation called as NATO? To take care of US interests? Would not be better to create own European troops within EU?
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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

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Originally Posted by mtw View Post
They are not paranoid. I don't support Russians policy, but I think, that they are right in this case. Majority of Polish nation does not support of stupid plans of some members of our government. We want to have peace in our region, no unnecessary conflicts with neighbours and no unfamiliar, hostile, american bases and troops on our terytory. When our president have no source of worry, then he can think, how to create workplaces for Polish people in Poland, not in Ireland or England or Germany.
There is the huge poverty in some regions of the world and if Bush has too much money, then he can give financial, not military support for poor people ( for instance in Africa or South America of course: purpose: humanity aid, not fight agains internal enemy )
By the way. This is the end of cold war ( about 20 years ago ). What for is this organisation called as NATO? To take care of US interests? Would not be better to create own European troops within EU?
Do your homework before making statements like that, america gives the more money in foreign aid than any other country. Or did that escape your radar
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 08:15 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

Where do you get that info (source?) and what sort of foreign aid are you talking about?

Source: OECD
Development aid (2004)

1. Official Development Assistance (ODA), in million USD:
EU-15: 42.919
US: 18.999

2. ODA in % of GNI
EU-15: 0,36%
US: 0,16%
Italy: 0,15%
Belgium: 0,41%
The Netherlands: 0,74%
Sweden: 0,77%
Norway: 0,87%
UK: 0,36%
Germany: 0,28%
Japan: 0,19%
...

3. ODA to LDC (Least Developped Countries, as determined by UN), % of GNI (2003)
EU-15: 0,13%
US: 0,04%
Italy: 0,08%
Belgium: 0,35%
The Netherlands: 0,26%
Sweden: 0,27%
Norway: 0,36%
UK: 0,12%
Germany: 0,10%
Japan: 0,04%
...

http://ocde.p4.siteinternet.com/publ...005061T030.xls


It looks to me as if Putin longs for another cold war judging by the latest series of speeches he's given.

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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

Carol Adelman, a specialist in foreign aid and development at the Hudson Institute July 27, 2005
By Elizabeth Farabee
Washington File Staff Writer


Washington -- International giving by American citizens, the private sector and nongovernmental groups is an important measure of U.S. foreign assistance and reveals that Americans are generous when it comes to helping others, says Carol Adelman, a specialist in foreign aid and development with the Hudson Institute in Washington.
In terms of official government foreign assistance, “the U.S. gives the most in absolute amounts, more than twice what the second ranked donor, Japan, gives,” said Adelman during a global Internet chat July 27.



this was form 2005 i'll try to find more up to date sources


http://usinfo.state.gov/eur/Archive/...27-997226.html
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 08:33 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

In absolute amounts, perhaps, but that doesn't say all that much. If you want to compare countries, you need to look at the relative figures. See above where you can see the absolute figures and the relative figures.
But even then, the EU-15 spends more than the US on development aid in absolute amounts.

Personally, I think that all these % are rather low compared to the GNI of those countries.

Last edited by Castafiore; 02-21-2007 at 08:39 PM.
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 08:44 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

USAID in the context of U.S. foreign aid


President Marcos tries out a payloader, which was donated to the Philippines through the USAID


At the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992, the world's governments adopted a program for action under the auspices of the United Nations–Agenda 21, which included an Official Development Assistance (ODA) aid target of 0.7% of gross national product (GNP) for rich nations, roughly 22 members of the OECD, known as the Development Assistance Committee (DAC).
US levels for foreign aid fall short of this goal (the US currently ranks last among the world's wealthiest countries at about 0.1 percent of GNP.) However, in absolute amounts, the United States is currently the world's top donor of economic aid, providing $16.254 billion in 2003 according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
In 2001, the United States gave $10.9 billion, Japan $9.7 billion, Germany $4.9 billion, the United Kingdom $4.7 billion, and France $4.3 billion. As a percentage of GNP, however, the top donors were Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Sweden. The Netherlands (pop. 16.3 million) gave $3.2 billion in 2001 — almost a third of what America contributed.
The 2003 budget of President Bush proposed $11.4 billion in foreign aid with an additional $4.3 billion for peacekeeping operations and to finance, train, and educate foreign armed forces. By fiscal year 2006, the President's budget requested $9.1 billion for development and humanitarian assistance administered by USAID; the Agency will uniquely program and manage approximately $5.0 billion and manage an additional $4.1 billion in coordination with the Department of State.
The fiscal year 2006 USAID budget request totals $4.22 billion in the following accounts: Child Survival and Health: $1.252 billion, Development Assistance: $1.103 billion, International Disaster and Famine Assistance: $655.5 million, Transition Initiatives: $325 million, P.L. 480 Food for Peace: $885 million. In addition, USAID will manage the following programs with the Department of State: Support for East European Democracies: $382 million, FREEDOM Support Act: $482 million, and Economic Support Funds: $3.036 billion.
USAID states that "U.S. foreign assistance has always had the twofold purpose of furthering America's foreign policy interests in expanding democracy and free markets while improving the lives of the citizens of the developing world." However, some critics say that the US government gives aid to reward political and military partners than to advance genuine social or humanitarian causes abroad.
USAID, in partnership with Higher Education for Development (HED)[2] ], promotes higher education's engagement in social and economic development through institutional and human capacity building in developing countries. Since 1997, more than 250 higher education partnerships in over 60 nations have received USAID funding to strengthen economic capacity, support agricultural productivity, improve health, develop access to clean water, and much more.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAID#U...S._foreign_aid

So yeah america could do more as far as total income to aid, but wealthy people don't stay wealthy by giving it all away. Any way what they don't report on is how much everday working poor americans give to foreign aid. those numbers might suprise people
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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 10:42 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
In absolute amounts, perhaps, but that doesn't say all that much. If you want to compare countries, you need to look at the relative figures. See above where you can see the absolute figures and the relative figures.
But even then, the EU-15 spends more than the US on development aid in absolute amounts.

Personally, I think that all these % are rather low compared to the GNI of those countries.
I would imagine its worse if your country spends more, giving away tax money, if the politicians want to donate they can do it themselves, if people want to do it they can donate themselves, tax money is "suppose" to be given back in the form of "social services", not given away to some dictator somewhere in teh world... why is it that the countries that have received the most amount of aid (billions) in the last 20 years are still the poorest? even after billions poured into those countries?

Quote:
Former Central African Republic leader Jean-Bedel Bokassa: "We ask the French for money. We get it, and then we waste it."
haha...

"For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!"
here is an excerpt
Quote:
The Kenyan economics expert James Shikwati, 35, says that aid to Africa does more harm than good. The avid proponent of globalization spoke with SPIEGEL about the disastrous effects of Western development policy in Africa, corrupt rulers, and the tendency to overstate the AIDS problem.
SPIEGEL:

Mr. Shikwati, the G8 summit at Gleneagles is about to beef up the development aid for Africa...

Shikwati: ... for God's sake, please just stop.

SPIEGEL: Stop? The industrialized nations of the West want to eliminate hunger and poverty.

Shikwati: Such intentions have been damaging our continent for the past 40 years. If the industrial nations really want to help the Africans, they should finally terminate this awful aid. The countries that have collected the most development aid are also the ones that are in the worst shape. Despite the billions that have poured in to Africa, the continent remains poor.

SPIEGEL: Do you have an explanation for this paradox?

Shikwati: Huge bureaucracies are financed (with the aid money), corruption and complacency are promoted, Africans are taught to be beggars and not to be independent. In addition, development aid weakens the local markets everywhere and dampens the spirit of entrepreneurship that we so desperately need. As absurd as it may sound: Development aid is one of the reasons for Africa's problems. If the West were to cancel these payments, normal Africans wouldn't even notice. Only the functionaries would be hard hit. Which is why they maintain that the world would stop turning without this development aid.

SPIEGEL: Even in a country like Kenya, people are starving to death each year. Someone has got to help them.

Shikwati: But it has to be the Kenyans themselves who help these people. When there's a drought in a region of Kenya, our corrupt politicians reflexively cry out for more help. This call then reaches the United Nations World Food Program -- which is a massive agency of apparatchiks who are in the absurd situation of, on the one hand, being dedicated to the fight against hunger while, on the other hand, being faced with unemployment were hunger actually eliminated. It's only natural that they willingly accept the plea for more help. And it's not uncommon that they demand a little more money than the respective African government originally requested. They then forward that request to their headquarters, and before long, several thousands tons of corn are shipped to Africa ...

SPIEGEL: ... corn that predominantly comes from highly-subsidized European and American farmers ...

Shikwati: ... and at some point, this corn ends up in the harbor of Mombasa. A portion of the corn often goes directly into the hands of unsrupulous politicians who then pass it on to their own tribe to boost their next election campaign. Another portion of the shipment ends up on the black market where the corn is dumped at extremely low prices. Local farmers may as well put down their hoes right away; no one can compete with the UN's World Food Program. And because the farmers go under in the face of this pressure, Kenya would have no reserves to draw on if there actually were a famine next year. It's a simple but fatal cycle...
Choking on Aid Money in Africa

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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 10:53 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

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Originally Posted by zicofirol View Post
I would imagine its worse if your country spends more, giving away tax money, if the politicians want to donate they can do it themselves, if people want to do it they can donate themselves, tax money is "suppose" to be given back in the form of "social services", not given away to some dictator somewhere in teh world... why is it that the countries that have received the most amount of aid (billions) in the last 20 years are still the poorest? even after billions poured into those countries?

haha...

"For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!"
here is an excerpt


Choking on Aid Money in Africa
The heavens have opened up and awwww(singing) no I've said that before, Aid doesn't do anything but because people choose to see everything in dollars signs they think everything can be fixed by dollar signs. they have done interviews on top on reports about africans telling people look all this money is doing nothing to fix the problem, the problem is not lack of money it is lack of means to make money and a decent life for oneself and until people see and realize that, poor countries are going to remain poor, no matter how much money you throw at it, I wish people would get that.
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post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-22-2007, 02:58 AM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

It's just another silly idea of the Christian fundamentalist group behind bush. They think they're blessed by the universe and can do whatever they want in the world in god's name.lol. new orleans, halliburton, global warming. yeah sure. the judgement day is close. yes indeed...lol. jesus is rolling over in his grave. damn.

come on Al Gore

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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-22-2007, 02:05 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

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Originally Posted by sondraj06 View Post
Carol Adelman, a specialist in foreign aid and development at the Hudson Institute July 27, 2005
By Elizabeth Farabee
Washington File Staff Writer


Washington -- International giving by American citizens, the private sector and nongovernmental groups is an important measure of U.S. foreign assistance and reveals that Americans are generous when it comes to helping others, says Carol Adelman, a specialist in foreign aid and development with the Hudson Institute in Washington.
In terms of official government foreign assistance, “the U.S. gives the most in absolute amounts, more than twice what the second ranked donor, Japan, gives,” said Adelman during a global Internet chat July 27.



this was form 2005 i'll try to find more up to date sources


http://usinfo.state.gov/eur/Archive/...27-997226.html
And it is called propaganda of your country. We give more, that Japan, which gives nothing. You are very specific country.
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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-22-2007, 02:16 PM
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Re: World War III: Moscow warns Czechs and Poles on U.S. shield

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Originally Posted by SushiMinimal View Post
It's just another silly idea of the Christian fundamentalist group behind bush. They think they're blessed by the universe and can do whatever they want in the world in god's name.lol. new orleans, halliburton, global warming. yeah sure. the judgement day is close. yes indeed...lol. jesus is rolling over in his grave. damn.

come on Al Gore
This idea has nothing to do with Christianity. I am catholic too. And I have nothing against muslims or other Christians ( Russians are Orthodox ) or atheists. Besides I am opponent of this ill, hewn idea. And not only I. There are many, thinking people, which know, that this is dangerous for my country and maybe even for the peace in my region. And saying about confidence. I don't know, what american religion looks like, but in my confidence one of basic rules is: ,,Not to kill''. This is sin, which can not be absolved. And many politicians in my country are allegedly Catholics too.
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