Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-24-2017, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Angela Merkel is re-elected for a fourth term in federal elections.

CDU has won 32.5% of the vote, exit polls suggest. Social democrats, SPD, has gained 20%.

The AfD, a far-right nationalist, seen as neo-Nazi, was on track to win 13.5%, emerging as Germany's third-strongest party.

Discuss.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-24-2017, 10:32 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

"Far right nationalist" party with a lesbian married to a Sri Lankan as candidate. Either way AFD or no AFD, Merkel or whomever, there's no turning back. It's all over. I'll just continue to enjoy the show from afar. Can't wait for the next terror attack or the next ISIS to be created. This circus will not cease.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 02:45 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Expected outcome, including the relative and predictable success of AfD, who for some reason attract more media attention than I would consider normal.

Germans still opted for Merkel, one of the best European politicians (ever). Congratulations. I wish I could vote for her.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 03:04 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Well, what should we say. The wave of right wing populism has unfortunately reached Germany too. Other, more extreme parties have come and gone at the state level in the Federal Republic's history. They had a tendency of imploding due internal disputes. However, this is a first time at the federal level and the causes may be similar to other countries. I blame the internet to some extent; sources of political information are being segregated such that everyone can just shop around for the points of view that they like to see rather than being provide information that has been meticulously fact-checked.

The memories of the atrocities of the Nazi regime are slowly fading away and many see it now as some kind of "burden they want to get rid of". In some way it shows that Germany is not that different from other places ... in other ways it is scary as it shows that key learnings from history can be lost over time. Just hoping that this wave will disappear as quickly as is has emerged.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 03:18 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

PS: I would see them as populist and right wing. Neo-Nazi is probably too strong; that label could be applied to the National Democratic Party (NPD) and the previous DVU (Deutsche Volks-Union). The AfD still tends to distance itself from the extreme right and from anti-semitic elements. Nevertheless there are a couple of disturbing views on German history among AfD state level leaders.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 03:43 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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Germans still opted for Merkel, one of the best European politicians (ever). Congratulations. I wish I could vote for her.
Figures. Merkel is much more popular with foreigners than her own electorate.

I wouldn't mind her either if it was the money of foreign tax payers she was wasting instead of German tax money.

She was elected only because it was impossible to get rid of her with the German voting system. And the electorate didn't exactly favour the other options in the parliament: no-border leftists who want even more EU, want to spend more tax money on the "discriminated and socially disadvantaged", i.e. in reality distribute that money to "projects" of their own supporters.

No wonder, a new party has been established as the only opposition in vital issues where a large percentage of the populace opposes Merkel's political decision regarding the infringement of Dublin 3 + the breach of the Maastricht criteria and the introduction of the European debt and liabilities union. The latter led to the establishment of the AfD.

Far right? What does that even mean?
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http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/big-shot
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 03:53 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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Far right? What does that even mean?
It is typical of the far right not to know the meaning of "far right" (or to pretend not to know) ...
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 03:58 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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Far right? What does that even mean?
In modern political discourse, anyone who's not at least as progressive as Obama. Bill Clinton's views on immigration and border security would be called "far right" if stated by a modern politician. Buckley conservatives get a pass due to their 50 year history of happily ceding ground to the left.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 04:00 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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Originally Posted by Jungletiger9 View Post
PS: I would see them as populist and right wing. Neo-Nazi is probably too strong; that label could be applied to the National Democratic Party (NPD) and the previous DVU (Deutsche Volks-Union). The AfD still tends to distance itself from the extreme right and from anti-semitic elements. Nevertheless there are a couple of disturbing views on German history among AfD state level leaders.
I do not want to discuss poltics in a tennis forum, but I feel something needs to be added.
The following should be another perspective on the party. No intension of critisism from
my side is intended.

I feel the AFD is a mixture of a populist and right wing and a Neo Nazi party. It is hard to
determine it precisely. Many former members of other extremist parties have found a new
home within the AFD and there have been a lot of antisemetic and rassistic expressions
from their 'important' people in the past. However there are still some parts of the AFD
that are more ultra-conservative, a position especially the CSU in Bavaria occupied
over the last decades.
I say it is hard to determine what the AFD is. And a day after the election it is very
unclear where the AFD goes. A lot of internal turbulences seem to start coming up.

Exit polls also conclude, that roughly 2 thirds voted for the AFD as a protest. Quite a
familiar thing in Germany, but that was more a local thing in the past. Ronald Schill
in Hamburg is a good example.

This is my personal look at the AFD. I do not support them and would not vote for them
as well.


Additionally Angela Merkel is not reelected yet. She can only get reelected chancellor
if she manages to form a coalition, probably a 3 party coalition, which is a rare thing.
Coalitions among 2 parties are the normality in Germany. Within its federal states
3-party coalitions are more common, but still the exeption.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 04:02 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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Originally Posted by Jungletiger9 View Post
Nevertheless there are a couple of disturbing views on German history among AfD state level leaders.
Different opinions on how events unfolded, should be discussed, why not? There can be no tabu imho. If they have some weird opinion, they won't find a majority anyway. Trust the truth and the intelligence of people. No need to restrict freedom of speech/thought because very few individuals have weird historical views.

I swear people are more afraid of "nazis", the more distant in the past it is. I wonder whether that is because some people earn a lot of money with that fear.

Anyway, I'm much more interested in how a political leader wants to raise and distribute tax money than which history books they have read and believe. How do they want to cut expenses and where expand? Where invest and where economize?

In which branches should the state be involved? How to ensure that corruption is kept at a minimum? How to control executive powers? How to involve the populace more in the democratic process?
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"The point is that to root for Federer is to root for a Platonic ideal. It is like rooting for truth. (...) Detractors who said, “Don’t you get tired of him winning all the time?” were missing the point. Every victory was a validation. No one gets bored by the sun coming up in the morning."

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/big-shot
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 04:05 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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Originally Posted by Jungletiger9 View Post
It is typical of the far right not to know the meaning of "far right" (or to pretend not to know) ...
It's typical of so-called "leftists" that they can't even define what they are talking about, instead refraining to insults.

"Left" and "right" are categories from the 19th century, that I don't consider very useful in today's world. More useful would be globalists (leftists, neolibs) vs. nationalists imho.

I like to talk more practical and to the point and not get lost in abstract concepts.
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"The point is that to root for Federer is to root for a Platonic ideal. It is like rooting for truth. (...) Detractors who said, “Don’t you get tired of him winning all the time?” were missing the point. Every victory was a validation. No one gets bored by the sun coming up in the morning."

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/big-shot

Last edited by Secondeuce; 09-25-2017 at 04:09 PM.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 04:11 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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Originally Posted by ne znam ali mozda View Post
Angela Merkel is re-elected for a fourth term in federal elections.

CDU has won 32.5% of the vote, exit polls suggest. Social democrats, SPD, has gained 20%.

The AfD, a far-right nationalist, seen as neo-Nazi, was on track to win 13.5%, emerging as Germany's third-strongest party.

Discuss.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 04:18 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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It's typical of so-called "leftists" that they can't even define what they are talking about, instead refraining to insults.

"Left" and "right" are categories from the 19th century, that I don't consider very useful in today's world.

I like to talk more practical and to the point and not get lost in abstract concepts.

Unfortunately for you those concepts still work quite well in today's world. Yes, there are a few parties that seem to combine leftist economic view with xenophobic nationalist elements. But those are exceptions and the AfD fulfills all the criteria of being a right wing party, similar to Front National, Vlaams Belang, De Wilde, Trump& alt-right. Denial of such amounts to nihilism and is usually applied on purpose to deflect justified criticism.

I am not a "leftist" by the way. It is once again a typical pattern to deny being from the right and classifying 90% of educated people as "leftist". (And on the one hand you state that you do not believe in those categories yet on the other hand you apply them in a derogatory manner to those who do do not agree with your personal political philosophy? What logic is that)

But the way, I do not have any interest in creating an endless political discussion on this forum. The important things have been said from my side.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 04:23 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Merkel gave a big boost to the AfD as she allowed 1 Mio refugees to come to Germany in 2015.
Many germans think this was way too much and Germany is not able to handle all the problems that will come with it.
And so many voters turned her back on Merkel and voted for AfD instead.

(many non-Germans might not know - Merkels party is a RIGHT wing Party)
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 04:38 PM
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Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

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I am not a "leftist" by the way. It is once again a typical pattern to deny being from the right and classifying 90% of educated people as "leftist".
I didn't say you were leftist, that's why I put it in parentheses. You only behaved like one.

You were quick to brand me as "right" and apparently that means I'm un-educated as well.

I consider the nation-state an important institution, the framework of the democratic process and law. A framework that provides the weakest members of our respective societies with protection and which globalization will take away.

Anyway, I also don't enjoy discussing such issues here.

"The point is that to root for Federer is to root for a Platonic ideal. It is like rooting for truth. (...) Detractors who said, “Don’t you get tired of him winning all the time?” were missing the point. Every victory was a validation. No one gets bored by the sun coming up in the morning."

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/big-shot
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