The Christmas tree story is nonsense. It's stuff like this that makes Islam look like a religion of war, you have some sections who openly say that everyone must become Muslim or perish. See Nigeria or what Albania did in Serbia (Kosovo)
I insist for the third time on the fact that the removal of the Christmas tree in Brussels has NOTHING to do with Islam. No Muslims here in Belgium wish to remove it. It's never been mentioned in the local news, here. It's all got to do with a Freemasonic anti-Christian, atheist moronic Mayor.
Even the Christmas market has been re-labelled "Winter Pleasure". It's crazy.
In Serbia, the Salafists also had strong support from the atheistic West, which should not be forgotten.
Originally Posted by buddyholly
I recently read a good article that differentiated between ''offensive'' and ''being offended.'' It said that there will always be potentially offensive things in a free society, but people that are offended by them have chosen to be offended. If everyone simply chose not to be offended, then the world would be a better place.
I don't know what to make of this because the argument clearly supports my claims. Perhaps it was your intention. In any case, I sure agree. That's what I've said multiple times to friends for years ...
I wont accept demographic shifts that will radically change what my country and Europe as a whole always has been. Ofcourse, I am all for muslims to wear their veils as long as they stop complaining about christian and european pagan traditions (like christmas trees), if I move to Dubai which is the most free country in Middle east I would never get citizenship and neither would my children because you need to be ethnically arab to get citizenship.
I had no time to discuss that yesterday so I continue now.
There's a lot of confusion here. First, between a migrating population and religion. In my former posts on this thread I clearly stated that I was talking about Arab migrants who ARE on our soil (perhaps it's not the case in Denmark yet but here it definitely is and I deal with it) and that we can no longer expel. I am in favour of tighter control of migration flows and I said it clearly in the US Elections thread. You can't get the Dubai citizenship? Normal.
Many of those Arabs living on our soil, who never asked and expected anything (they've been drawn here by big capitalists who found a good way to put pressure on wages) are not Muslims, but atheists who are decerebrated by the liberal/capitalist culture of Progress/Entertainment/Money/Frivolousness. They're completely lost. Those who turn to Islam are simply discovering again some good old conservative values of share, gifts, family and social belonging, which I sort of share even though I am not Muslim and never will be but I realize that they have nothing else. I realize that Muslims's fate is to vote conservative (in the sense of Tory vs Whig), just like me and that's why those so-called Christians who want to separate from Muslims are doing a dirty job because our destiny is to get together.
The Muslims have always seen Christians as their allies. That should not be forgotten.
Oh yeah, for the 4th and I hope last time, Muslims are NOT complaining about Christian traditions.
Tolerance shouldnt be a one way street, so please spare me this lecture about europeans beeing intolerant. Capitalism and western civilisation has caused alot of evil and good things like most other kind of power structure that ever existed. All civilizations had slavery (I think except Persia), all civilizations were uphelt by the power of the sword (or gunpowder).
I did not say the Capitalist tradition was more intolerant than the previous traditional Christian one but it caused greater destruction/violence and ugliness than the previous one.
All were upheld by the power of the Sword but it overall used to be soldiers against soldiers, while in the Modern world, you had the French Republic destroying the Vendée (Civilians were the target), two Atomic bombs dropped on Japan (Civilians were the target), spreading of Agent Orange across Vietnam and Laos (Farmers were the target), concentration camps (invented by the Brits against the Dutch in South Africa, the Nazis just copied), the horrors of child labour throughout the 19th century and already in the 18th, we may add the failure and horrors of the Bolshevik regime, etc etc.
The great authors from the Inter-War years already reflected on that point. You talked about Progress, and what did it lead to? The biggest destruction the World has ever known, WWI. Guys like Huxley, Chesterton, Orwell, Bernanos, Tzara, Mumford, etc. They could not have known that 20 years after that you had a second WW. Both mainly between European White nations, right? And another 20 years later you had an even more destructive war, which really outclasses those two in terms of bomb tonnage dropped and technological advancement in the weapons used, and the subsequent monstrosity: The Vietnam War.
So I do repeat, how legit are we to preach Human Rights across the Globe? What is our record?