Lance Armstrong finally banned for doping - Page 10 - MensTennisForums.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #136 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 02:12 AM
Registered User
 
Mark Lenders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 17,155
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by bad gambler View Post
I'm not sure if you are being serious
Couldn't be more serious. Ullrich was the best rider of his generation and deserved the 4/5 Tours he'd have won on the road if he was not competing against the most doped up athlete in sports history.

Even if they do give him the 2000, 2001 and 2003 titles (which they probably won't, they are likely to be left vacant), it will obviously not be the same as if he had won them on the road.
Mark Lenders is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #137 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 02:17 AM
Registered User
 
abraxas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 30
Posts: 12,934
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

george carlin on lance armstrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=tlTr2GSVUGg#!

abraxas21 is offline  
post #138 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 02:32 AM
Registered Fed fan
 
Kat_YYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 15,450
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
Personally I can´t help but feeling that taking this "I´m done, this is enough for me"-stance speaks volumes. If he really is clean and has never taken PED´s in his life, he would fight for his reputation. Are we really supposed to believe that someone who almost died of cancer, had his testicle removed, beat the disease, won the Tour 7 times would quit now if he was innocent?? I maybe wrong, but I don´t think so.
That depends on what you believe about the justice system. If you believe in that "truth, justice and the American Way" stuff, then you go to court thinking the truth always prevails, guilty people are always found guilty and there are no wrongful convictions.

But most legal cases aren't about finding truth, they are about two sides each trying to win -- by any means necessary. Kind of similar to sport, actually.

He's probably guilty but why we have to piss all over legal process and principles just to satisfy our emotional need to see him punished is something I don't understand.

Roger Federer * Greatest Of All Time
Kat_YYZ is offline  
post #139 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 02:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,524
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujee View Post
The governing body have been after him for years, and providing a virtual amnesty for other cyclists who may have doped in past tours, being allowed to get away with it without anyone finding out as long as they catch Armstrong just stinks of hipocrisy.
That wont happen.

Quote:
There has never been a concrete positive test sample, only speculation.
Negative, old sport! Feel free to look at the evidence that's in the public domain before swallowing Armstrong's propaganda and regurgitating it on this forum.

Quote:
Some of the blood they tested is now years old, the margin for error is substantial.
Correct (well, the first half, not the second). It was also tested years ago. What is your point?

Quote:
I don't know what to think about his innocence or not.


Quote:
He can't be bothered to spend his fortune fighting a case which is virtually settled the moment the hearing begins.
I think he hopes the evidence wont be made public now.

Quote:
There will always be speculation.
In this case, we are dealing with direct witness testimony from at least 12 people and analytical data.

Quote:
Regardless, it's a sad, sad day for cycling.
A proven (since many years ago) doper finally getting sanctioned and stripped of his titles is why?
Mjau! is offline  
post #140 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 04:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Age: 39
Posts: 11
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

to think i just recently bought a live strong yellow jacket on sale
southpawdragon is offline  
post #141 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 05:42 AM
Registered User
 
GugaF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,155
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Do you guys ever put yourself in their shoes. Think, you are a talented young aspiring to be cyclist and you reach the pro circuit to find out that the only way to compete with the big boys is to get on with the culture of doping in which all of the top teams do it, which will give you a decisive edge in being competitive to reach the top. Would you just go and " well, it has been great training hard and dedicating my life at this endeavor and it seems that I have the talent and could have good success becoming a Pro athlete,but never mind I am going to go work delivering Pizzas now" These are the choice many athletes not only in cycling, but in probably all major sports, have to go trough.

It takes you 5 seconds to judge from the PC, but the reality is much deeper and the choices much tougher for those directly involved. All major sports have some level of deceptiveness when it comes to doping. If you don't allocate serious competent anti-doping regulations with descent budgets, how can you expect people to play by the rules when all the incentive is on the other way? Even fans are part of it, they trow labels and words around when athletes get caught, but do they really care about the seriousness of the doping regulations or only when is opportunistic and easy with someone getting caught? Is like expecting a company to not have any frauds while having no auditing or checking mechanisms. That is not how human nature works, rules without proper enforcement, corrupts.

This is an interesting article of what reality is more like to be an aspiring pro athlete:


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/op...pagewanted=all
GugaF1 is offline  
post #142 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 06:37 AM
Registered User
 
Dmitry Verdasco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,182
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by GugaF1 View Post
Do you guys ever put yourself in their shoes. Think, you are a talented young aspiring to be cyclist and you reach the pro circuit to find out that the only way to compete with the big boys is to get on with the culture of doping in which all of the top teams do it, which will give you a decisive edge in being competitive to reach the top. Would you just go and " well, it has been great training hard and dedicating my life at this endeavor and it seems that I have the talent and could have good success becoming a Pro athlete,but never mind I am going to go work delivering Pizzas now" These are the choice many athletes not only in cycling, but in probably all major sports, have to go trough.

It takes you 5 seconds to judge from the PC, but the reality is much deeper and the choices much tougher for those directly involved. All major sports have some level of deceptiveness when it comes to doping. If you don't allocate serious competent anti-doping regulations with descent budgets, how can you expect people to play by the rules when all the incentive is on the other way? Even fans are part of it, they trow labels and words around when athletes get caught, but do they really care about the seriousness of the doping regulations or only when is opportunistic and easy with someone getting caught? Is like expecting a company to not have any frauds while having no auditing or checking mechanisms. That is not how human nature works, rules without proper enforcement, corrupts.

This is an interesting article of what reality is more like to be an aspiring pro athlete:


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/op...pagewanted=all
Of course the temptation is there for any aspiring athlete, but I think the point is that the choice to cheat or go about ones career the honorable way says a lot about their character. Character is what builds a champion.

MARTiNA HiNGiS
| 10 x Australian Open Champion | 3 x Roland Garros Champion |
| 5 x Wimbledon Champion | 4 x US Open Champion | 5 x YEC Champion |





• Nadal • Philippoussis • Gasquet • Tursunov • Nalbandian • Safin • Bolelli • Tomic • Borg •
• Kournikova • Dokic • Golovin • Dementieva • Myskina • Mirza • Pliskova • Gavrilova • Rubin • Pierce •
Dmitry Verdasco is offline  
post #143 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 07:27 AM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Har-Tru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 30
Posts: 20,524
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Plus removal of cancer from his brain. I actually think it would be reasonable to quit.
Why would it? Why would anyone quit knowing he is innocent? What does he fear?
Har-Tru is offline  
post #144 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 10:35 AM
Registered User
 
Fujee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,674
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjau! View Post
That wont happen.



Negative, old sport! Feel free to look at the evidence that's in the public domain before swallowing Armstrong's propaganda and regurgitating it on this forum.



Correct (well, the first half, not the second). It was also tested years ago. What is your point?







I think he hopes the evidence wont be made public now.



In this case, we are dealing with direct witness testimony from at least 12 people and analytical data.



A proven (since many years ago) doper finally getting sanctioned and stripped of his titles is why?

Im not saying anything either way, it certainly looks bad either way you look at it. I am just trying to offfer the most objective perspective.

He's almost certainly guilty, but there will always be reasonable doubt. There is always that chance he is actually innocent.

They all dope, its a sad fact, but it's all driven by that brand written on the jersey.

Regardless whether he is guilty or not. He's certainly the best all rounder of his generation. Pantani was probably the best climber.

With or without drugs, the tour requires concentration and tactical ability.

Eufemiano Fuentes

“I worked with cyclists but also footballers, boxers, tennis players and athletes,”


For Posterity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Certinfy View Post
I honestly don't think Brown has much of a chance at all, think he might get a set at best though.
Fujee is offline  
post #145 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 11:16 AM
Registered User
 
Dougie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,907
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
That depends on what you believe about the justice system. If you believe in that "truth, justice and the American Way" stuff, then you go to court thinking the truth always prevails, guilty people are always found guilty and there are no wrongful convictions.

But most legal cases aren't about finding truth, they are about two sides each trying to win -- by any means necessary. Kind of similar to sport, actually.

He's probably guilty but why we have to piss all over legal process and principles just to satisfy our emotional need to see him punished is something I don't understand.
I´m not that familiar with American justice system, but I know it´s not always just about the truth, obviously there are two sides trying to win.

But still, if he is innocent, if he never took PED´s, then there can´t be any evidence against him, right? And if that would be the case, he certainly has enough money to hire lawyers skillful enough to point that out. My point is, if he never took anything illegal, he´d have nothing to fear. He wouldn´t lose his tour titles on court without rock solid evidence. The fact that he backs down now is a clear indication of the fact that he knows the opposite side has something concrete against him.

I don´t think this is about our emotional need to see him punished. Quite the opposite, I think most people ( including me) are sad to see the story en like this, since Armstrong as given so much faith and hope to so many people all over the world. I would love nothing more than to keep believing it was all done honestly, because people need thsese kind of stories, he is an inspiration and a fighter. But if he achieved all that by using illegal substances, then there can´t be a grey area, he needs to be punished accordingly. Integrity of the sport ( no matter how little of that cycling has left) must be more important than one man´s legacy.
Dougie is offline  
post #146 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 12:04 PM
RAVE ON
 
buddyholly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: LUBBOCK TX
Posts: 15,501
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Why would it? Why would anyone quit knowing he is innocent? What does he fear?
I meant it in the sense of living for today is a lot more fun than living for yesterday. Not that I think it is likely.

I don't care. I only watch the Tour for the scenery. Now that they will be pedalling slower it will be even nicer.

JOIN THE CHURCH OF THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER TODAY
buddyholly is offline  
post #147 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 04:19 PM
Registered User
 
GugaF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,155
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitry Verdasco View Post
Of course the temptation is there for any aspiring athlete, but I think the point is that the choice to cheat or go about ones career the honorable way says a lot about their character. Character is what builds a champion.
It's not a question of mere "temptation" if you read the article, you would need to go the the 100th place to start finding people that were clean in that era of cycling, the doping testing was a joke to pass. There's no "honorable career" to go on about, when there isn't a level playing field for clean athletes to actually compete with a descent shot, specially on a sport that depends so much on the physical, such as cycling. The "honor and character" needs to be mainly on the doping enforcement and the fans that needs to demand it to be taken seriously. Otherwise there is no incentive from sports's promoters, the business around it to regulate themselves and the athletes which finds a culture of doping necessary in order to compete.
GugaF1 is offline  
post #148 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 04:23 PM
Registered User
 
Lopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 7,480
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Couldn't be more serious. Ullrich was the best rider of his generation and deserved the 4/5 Tours he'd have won on the road if he was not competing against the most doped up athlete in sports history.

Even if they do give him the 2000, 2001 and 2003 titles (which they probably won't, they are likely to be left vacant), it will obviously not be the same as if he had won them on the road.
Umm Ullrich was/is a doper also I think

After Nadal beat Monfils at Doha, before AO 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
lol, who will beat him? Wawrinka? Berdych? Gulbis? Rosol? Federer?

Only Del Potro can take him out before the semis, and he won't. Nadal is winning the AO, bet your house on it.
Somewhere out there, there is a homeless person who once took betting advice from GSMnadal
Lopez is offline  
post #149 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 04:26 PM
Forum Umpire:
Gaston Gaudio
 
Action Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 124,507
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

Cadel Evans would win more tours and Ullrich was a dope fiend as well.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
Action Jackson is offline  
post #150 of 361 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 05:02 PM
Registered User
 
Shinoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: My Flag
Posts: 4,292
                     
Re: Lance Armstrong drops fight against US Anti-Doping Agency drug charges

To me it just makes no sense to dope if i am going to be caught some years down the line for sure. I cant believe there are so many idiots in Cycling.
Shinoj is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome