So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA? - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

As you probably know, the USA has been a strong ally of Israel for decades, not only monetarily (Israel, in spite of being a rich country, is the USA's main recipient of monetary aid) but also militarily and diplomaticaly.

Many important Jewish organizations -financed mostly by American Zionist Jews- try to lobby to maintain this good relationship between Israel and America and, I must say, they've been quite successful at it. Now, if you wonder how does this 'lobby' works, it's through a lot of means (from PR to to "educational chats") but mainly and most importantly through money -cash directed to political campaigns of those favourable to Israel and cash directed to the political campaigns of those who are competing against the ones critical of Israel. Of all these, AIPAC, American Israeli Public Affairs Comittee, is by far the most relevant.

I'll give you some quotes:

Quote:
"...better than anybody else lobbying in this town ... You have been stunningly effective."
Former US President Bill Clinton

"You are the most effective general interest group…across the entire planet."
Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich

"Fully three-fourths of America's foreign aid budget is devoted to Israeli security interests is a tribute in considerable measure to the lobbying prowess of AIPAC and the importance of the Jewish community in American politics."
Benjamin Ginsberg, prominent conservative lawyer and political commentator

"Congress is 'terrorized' by AIPAC... In practice, the lobby groups function as an informal extension of the Israeli government."
Congressman (1961-1982) Paul Findley

I asked Rosen [Steve Rosen, at the time Research Director of the organization] if AIPAC suffered a loss of influence after the Steiner affair (a scandal over spy allegations for Israel). A half smile appeared on his face, and he pushed a napkin across the table. “You see this napkin?” he said. “In twenty-four hours, we could have the signatures of seventy senators on this napkin.”
Jeffrey Goldberg (The New Yorker).

"I think Israel is especially lucky that AIPAC exists in this country to present Israel's case."
Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

"So great is the perceived power of AIPAC to mobilize financial support for pro-Israel candidates or to challenge those perceived as hostile, that this year [1999], as is usually the case, around half the members of the Senate and one-third of the House of Representatives were expected to attend the policy banquet at [AIPAC's annual] conference."
Martin Sieff, Managing Editor of International Affairs, United Press International, 1999.

"Thank you for being here. AIPAC's work on behalf of America and Israel is valuable and important. With friends like you, Israel, and American interests in the Middle East, are well served. Thank you."
Senator John McCain June 20, 2001.

"This reluctance to criticise policies of the Israeli government is due to the extraordinary lobbying efforts of the American-Israel Political Action Committee and the absence of any significant contrary voices."
Jimmy Carter, former president of the USA

"All the Jews in America, from coast to coast, gathered to oust Percy [Charles Percy, senator for Illinois who supported the sale of planes to Saudi Arabia]. And the American politicians - those who hold public positions now, and those who aspire - got the message". - Tom Dine, former executive director of AIPAC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the study of JJ Goldberg, around 45% and 25% of the funding of the Democratic and Republican party respectively came from pro Israel Action Groups. Given that those two parties control the nation, it's no wonder to realize why America has adopted such a pro-Israel stance over the years.


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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 08:16 AM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

This is nothing new

In fact, if US/UK/France hadn't been so pro-Israel Israel wouldn't have been created in the first place.

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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

And that situation allows the Israelis not only to enjoy the backup of the USA but also to even boast about it. Here's a case in point when Olmert calls his bitch to give him an order.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — In an unusually public rebuke, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel said Monday that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had been forced to abstain from a United Nations resolution on Gaza that she helped draft, after Mr. Olmert placed a phone call to President Bush.

“I said, ‘Get me President Bush on the phone,’ ” Mr. Olmert said in a speech in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon, according to The Associated Press. “They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn’t care: ‘I need to talk to him now,’ ” Mr. Olmert continued. “He got off the podium and spoke to me.”

Israel opposed the resolution, which called for a halt to the fighting in Gaza, because the government said it did not provide for Israel’s security. It passed 14 to 0, with the United States abstaining.

Mr. Olmert claimed that once he made his case to Mr. Bush, the president called Ms. Rice and told her to abstain. “She was left pretty embarrassed,”Mr. Olmert said, according to The A.P.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/wa.../13olmert.html

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 10:14 AM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangehat View Post
This is nothing new

In fact, if US/UK/France hadn't been so pro-Israel Israel wouldn't have been created in the first place.
Oh yeah, and that's why none of those countries supported Israel's declaration of independence in 1948 and why Stalin was the only one who wanted to sell weapons to them.
Not only did the British not support Israel, they were arming the Arabs. The first time Americans gave weapons to Israel was after the 1967 war.
So, your conclusion is pure nonsense. We could say Israel was created in spite of those countries.
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 12:23 PM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

In the Wisconsin thread you said about lobbying: "Everybody does it."

So I don't see the point of this thread. Maybe you could retitle it "Why are Jews the best and most successful lobbyists and why is that so annoying?''

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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 01:21 PM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

Thread stinks.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 01:36 PM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

How many Israel threads do we need?

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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 02:16 PM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

I think to narrow the US support in Israel as a money issue, is a very limited vision. Judo-Christian values, strategic relationship (security wise), only democracy (yes, still) in the middle east, etc, etc.

If it was a money issue, the Arabs would have won. Why do you think Gadaffi isn't worldwide condemned as Mubarak was (for much, much, much much much much less violence) - oil.

Israel has no oil to hold over the head of the west. Where is the decision of the security council condemnation of the slaughter of hundreds of civilians in Libya in cold blood? They don't do it, because Gadaffi holds the oil over their heads.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 02:29 PM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

Can't be bothered. Just tell us what Chomsky decided and let's move on.

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 03:07 PM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

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Can't be bothered. Just tell us what Chomsky decided and let's move on.
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
In the Wisconsin thread you said about lobbying: "Everybody does it."

So I don't see the point of this thread. Maybe you could retitle it "Why are Jews the best and most successful lobbyists and why is that so annoying?''
because it directly affects the usa external policies towards an oppressed population? i couldnt care less what the yanks do within their own country but when they bring their shit down to other nations, then it's a problem.

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 05:23 PM
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

Why do we have so many Israeli threads??

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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Or Levy View Post
I think to narrow the US support in Israel as a money issue, is a very limited vision. Judo-Christian values, strategic relationship (security wise), only democracy (yes, still) in the middle east, etc, etc.

If it was a money issue, the Arabs would have won. Why do you think Gadaffi isn't worldwide condemned as Mubarak was (for much, much, much much much much less violence) - oil.

Israel has no oil to hold over the head of the west. Where is the decision of the security council condemnation of the slaughter of hundreds of civilians in Libya in cold blood? They don't do it, because Gadaffi holds the oil over their heads.
you're misunderstanding me. i'm not talking about the direct influence of the state of israel towards the usa, i'm talking of the influence of the American Zionists, some of them quite wealthy, over their own country's government as a way to sway their foreign policies towards favouring the relationships with israel in the middle east.

the pro-israel lobby in america is very strong. it's perhaps the most powerful lobby in the states and that explains a lot when it comes to talk about the historic relations between both countries. The power of this lobby is exerted by many means but, like most important lobbies, money is far far the most important way to get their points accross. the american arabs ara miles away to exert that kind of position in america because they're not that powerful and not that organized.

now, organizations like AIPAC certainly don't serve to explain everything but it would be naive to pretend that the mutual friendship between Israel and America is devoid of a very powerful influence that tends to favour one side only -Israel. This has been recognized by a lot of people, including former presidents of the USA and even politicians in Israel.

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Massive View Post
Why do we have so many Israeli threads??
because i find it interesting. besides, this is more about the US than about Israel. now, why do we have so many of your threads?

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: So, what's your take on the pro-Israel lobby in the USA?

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Can't be bothered. Just tell us what Chomsky decided and let's move on.
it tells a lot that you think this way... but it's not surprising to hear it coming from you. after all, your buddy who sides with you even called him the 'judenrat'...

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