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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-13-2002, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Canada Prime Minister Links Sept. 11 to 'Arrogant' West

Please Read this!!!! finally a leader of the "western world" is trying to give a reasonable explanation (he is not excusing the terrorists, don't get confused) on WHY the terrorist attacks could have happened, and not only is complaining about the evilness of the terrorists or looking for revenge. His name is JEAN CHRETIEN and is the Prime Minister of Canada.
Read it is extremely interesting

Canada PM Links Sept. 11 to 'Arrogant' West

By David Ljunggren

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien, going where few other leaders dare to tread, has linked the Sept. 11 suicide attacks to the perceived arrogance and selfishness of the United States and the West.

Chretien is the first head of a western major nation to suggest that the suicide hijackers might have been motivated by what he describes as the misguided policies of a rich and powerful West that did not understand the need for restraint.

The veteran prime minister, who has been in power for nine years, told the CBC in an interview aired late on Wednesday that there was "a lot of resentment" about the way in which powerful nations treated the increasing number of poor and dispossessed people in the world.

"You know, you cannot exercise your powers to the point of humiliation for others. That is what the Western world -- not only the Americans, the Western world -- has to realize. Because they (the have-nots) are human beings too. There are long-term consequences if you don't look hard at the reality in 10 or 20 (or) 30 years from now," he said.

Chretien continued: "And I do think the Western world is getting too rich in relation to the poor world and necessarily, you know, we're looked upon as being arrogant, self-satisfied greedy and with no limits. And Sept. 11 is an occasion for me to realize it even more."

Later in the same article he says
"And I said that day...'When you're (as) powerful (as) you are, you guys, it's the time to be nice'."

"There will be people in the United States sort of emboldened by their new source of unfettered power to -- in an (ice) hockey term -- get their elbows up," he said.

"I think the western world is a bit too selfish and that there is a lot of resentment. I felt it when I dealt with the African file for the G8 summit. You know, the poor get relatively poorer all the time and the rich are getting richer all the time," he said.


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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-13-2002, 09:24 PM
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Well....... I do have to agree to some degree.......

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-13-2002, 10:13 PM
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Well, Duh! What do you think the terrorist attcks are feeding on? The anti american feelings in the rest of the world!

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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-13-2002, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Bin Laden is not Zorro

Quote:
Originally posted by Tryphon


He and his folks are total religious fanatics and that's what drive them in the first place. For instance having Americans based in South Arabia, a holy ground.
But why they attack USA and not Brasil or Namibia???
hint: Palestina, Kuwait, Lebanon, Iraq, Lybia, Afganisthan, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, etc, etc, etc all of those countries were invaded by USA at least once.
no harsh feelings??? told to them this,

is not only about fanatism, is much more complicated, Messieu Chretien is saying a BIG TRUTH.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-13-2002, 11:02 PM
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Those are the people that Osama Bin Laden and his like recruit!

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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-13-2002, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
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Tryphon: I haven't the answer to your question, maybe some of them really thinks in the poor people of their country while for another ones the civilians are just pawns in a "chess game".
I can't say nothing better about any army of the world (including the army of my country)
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-13-2002, 11:43 PM
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There again, Osama and the like feed on the fears of the poor, uneducated and dispossed. These are the people that are most easily recruited as terrorists!

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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-13-2002, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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and why happens this Barrie? because they haven't nothing to lose maybe?
besides, at least the hijackers were people pretty well educated and clearly not poor.
is not as easy as: "uneducated people are easy to recruit" "educated people are smart enough to say NO".
is not as easy as this, is extremely complex. to try to summarize it in one sentence is to lose your time. Even the sociologists and anthropologists can't explain it easily, and certainly not in one sentence.
But i am agree with messieu Chretien, even when his reasoning just points to one of the many motives of the terrorism.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-14-2002, 12:05 AM
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Not All terrorists are uneducated! But even the most educated can fall into the dispossed! There are some very smart people that are suceptible to bullshit! I suppose that what I am trying to say is that there is a psychological profile of people that can be recruited to this sort of thing. It goes along with the kind of people here that fall prey to the "Cults" here on this side of the pond. The kind of people that are lonely, disenchanted, feel as "outcasts" from socirty, et all. I rather doubt that an Osama Bin Laden has put a formal tag on it, nor has given it that kind of thought, but he knows full well what people can be recruited for his cause. And a large part of that are the feelings of ill will twards western culture. The American foriegn policy seems to play right into it. We have to realize that and take steps to minimize the effect. I think that George Bushs "Cowboy" mentality is not going to help.

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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-14-2002, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
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Barrie, i am not sure about something that we could call a "psychological profile" for a terrorist. I guess that some Criminologist or Psychiatrist,could explain it. But i am studying psychology and in my opinion there are not a particular profile (if you mean a mental disorder) but yes the environment and the social conditions can push people from different levels of wealth, education, different religion (or without religion), race, gender, age, etc. to commit a terrorist action.
I guess is more about the environment and a cultural conditioning, than something that could be defined as a mental disorder. Of course i am not denying the existence of the Psychopaths, but them rarely commit suicides or assassinations for political or religious motives. They are in the habit of being solitary assassins.
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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-14-2002, 03:40 AM
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You are thinking in terms of a "Criminal" Profile. I am stating that there is a Psychological profile or term for the kind of person that is taken in by the Osama Bin Ladens of the world! These are the type of people like I say are taken in by the cults of the world. I am not as well versed in this as I'd like, however, like I have explained previous, these are the people are the "outcasts", the onesthat don't quite feel as they fit in, et all. That is the appeal of these organizations. The Osama's make them feel wanted and needed!

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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-14-2002, 03:48 AM Thread Starter
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Barrie what are you saying is exactly what i said, let me quote myself:
Quote:
but yes the environment and the social conditions can push people from different levels of wealth, education, different religion (or without religion), race, gender, age, etc. to commit a terrorist action.
I guess is more about the environment and cultural conditioning
Chretien was thinking more or less on the same aspect when he expressed his statement. at least i think so.

This is the people that is easier to recruit by someone as Osama. ppl without hope and with a lot of harsh feelings against those that are the culprits of their poverty and misery. (at least partially)
is a mix of poverty, frustration, Stoicism, Hopelessness, hate, and even a kind of sense of the heroism.

Last edited by Jorge; 09-14-2002 at 03:55 AM.
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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-14-2002, 05:25 AM
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Jorge, I love U

LEGION ARGENTINA


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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-14-2002, 11:03 PM
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Barrie - referring to your first comment, you seemed to be in shock that you agreed with something that Cretien said

Not I, I voted Liberal In which case I suppose that I voted for Peter Adams, not Jean - but meh.

I do like that he focussed on the whole western world, with the US sort of the leader of the western world in a lot of things - that he didn't just focus on the USA alone. That was really key I thought... not placing blame in one area.

I lack direction.

Chocking makes me sad.
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2002, 12:38 AM
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Actually, I am in shock about that Becca! Much the same as Griffin would be if she agreed with George W. Bush!

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