Financial clusterfuck in Europe - Page 8 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #106 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

jimmy, was it something like the link i posted on the last page, the one with the inter-connected debt?
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post #107 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 04:21 PM
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

YES that's exactly the one.

How do we display it in a post? No-one ever clicks on links.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ge-custom1.jpg

man, italy alone would virtually sink france.
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post #108 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

i have no idea.

anyways, i guess you must be appalled by the financial umbrella the ecb/brussels/berlin/paris/partsoflondon have initiated, right?
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post #109 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 04:34 PM
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

What do you mean by umbrella?

Actually I just noticed Spain's $1.1trillion debt is a little misleading. Many holiday homes over there were bought by Brits, French and Germans. That's what started the big Iberian property and construction boom in the first place. Hence the money was probably lent to themselves, not the local Spaniards.

Can't believe how much the French were lending all over the EU. Guess it makes up for their relatively small exposure to the American sub-prime.
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post #110 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
What do you mean by umbrella?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f23ee996-5...nclick_check=1

Quote:
The €750bn ($936bn, £625bn) plan, agreed between EU finance ministers, central bankers and the IMF in 11 hours of talks over the weekend, marks the biggest bail-out since the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008.
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post #111 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?vid...9946246&play=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickards
Look at what Soros did to the Bank of England in 1992 - he went after them, they had a finite amount of dollars, he was selling sterling and taking the dollars, and they were buying the sterling and selling the dollars to defend the peg. All he had to do was sell more than they had and he wins. But he needed real money to do that. Today you can break a country, you don't need money you just need synthetic euroshorts or CDS.
...A trillion dollar bailout: Goldman can create 10 trillion of euroshorts. So it just dominates whatever governments can do. So basically Goldman can create shorts faster than Europe can create money.
this is a guy who's been dead right for some time now. i feel like he's onto something once again.

btw goldman's quarterly revenues were about $10 billion. 80% of that sum came from (high-frequency) trading, something most people outside of goldman don't even have access to (how it works, who it's run by and so on). and get this: they've had 63 trading days - and didn't have a single down day. not one. nada.

this is virtually impossible. it must be madoff times 100. they're somehow ripping off the planet.
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post #112 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 07:20 PM
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f23ee996-5...nclick_check=1

The €750bn ($936bn, £625bn) plan, agreed between EU finance ministers, central bankers and the IMF in 11 hours of talks over the weekend, marks the biggest bail-out since the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008.
Link doesn't work for me.

But yes, totally appalled. Then again after the last two years I'm kind of use to seeing politicians throw money around.
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post #113 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janet tavakoli, well-known expert on structured finance
If you want to manipulate a market, deregulate it as much as possible. Then make it as "dark," and fast as possible. Make it hard for outsiders to view your trades as they get done, and make it even harder for anyone to figure out why you are trading. Get as much monopoly power as possible over the market. Get funding at the cheapest possible rate. The best possible rate is the near zero cost funding available from the Federal Reserve.

Next, get your "men" stationed in the most influential positions at the exchanges. Make sure your cronies have shock and awe market dominance through, say, High Frequency Trading algorithms that now make up the majority of stock trades.

Then, make sure you have advance information of major market-moving events. A bailout announcement by the European Union would do nicely. A few days before the announcement, "bang" the market. Pound down the value so you can monetize put options and other bearish instruments. Trigger customers' stop-loss orders, and pick up bargains at their expense. Then cash-in again when the market pops up on bailout news.
it's an evil empire.
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post #114 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-10-2010, 09:19 PM
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
What do you mean by umbrella?

Actually I just noticed Spain's $1.1trillion debt is a little misleading. Many holiday homes over there were bought by Brits, French and Germans. That's what started the big Iberian property and construction boom in the first place. Hence the money was probably lent to themselves, not the local Spaniards.

Can't believe how much the French were lending all over the EU. Guess it makes up for their relatively small exposure to the American sub-prime.
Yes! That! It's all the damn tourists' fault!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
it's an evil empire.
I, in my shameful ignorance of economic matters, can't help but ask me how much real value, how much tangible stuff there is behind all those acronyms and figures around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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post #115 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 12:37 AM
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?vid...9946246&play=1



this is a guy who's been dead right for some time now. i feel like he's onto something once again.

btw goldman's quarterly revenues were about $10 billion. 80% of that sum came from (high-frequency) trading, something most people outside of goldman don't even have access to (how it works, who it's run by and so on). and get this: they've had 63 trading days - and didn't have a single down day. not one. nada.

this is virtually impossible. it must be madoff times 100. they're somehow ripping off the planet.
Big government = big corruption. When Goldman Sachs is endorsing the pending financial "reform" legislation in Congress then you know something's up. Not by coincidence, Goldman Sachs has a bad habit of contributing A LOT of cash to democrats, who of course are crafting much of this legislation (contributions average almost 25% more to Dems than Repubs). In fact, they were Obama's second largest contributor after the University of California. The Dems have done an excellent job painting Republicans as pro-bankster while touting themselves as the party on the people's side. With contributions like this, whose side do you think they're really on?

This isn't capitalism, it's crony capitalism (corporatism if you will).
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post #116 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 12:54 AM
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

@ Spain

On behalf of Ireland I would like to announce that we'll accept an initial down-payment of Cesc Fabregas, Xavi Hernandez and Fernando Torres on the $14bn you owe us.
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post #117 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-11-2010, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
@ Spain

On behalf of Ireland I would like to announce that we'll accept an initial down-payment of Cesc Fabregas, Xavi Hernandez and Fernando Torres on the $14bn you owe us.


@ chip

i don't think goldman is a political issue. they bribe whoever they need to, be it republican or democrat. it's obvious though that the kind of de-regulation laws that made all these shenanigans possible have been almost exclusively drafted by conservative, pro-business people, fueled by a conservative, pro-business agenda. i guess the only reason for the democrats being the main "benefactor" donations-wise, if you will, is that goldman feels like it's way more necessary to bribe dems. they got the vast majority of the reps in the tank anyways, mostly because they're obedient enough. no need to splash 3-d glasses on the blind.
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post #118 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 03:17 AM
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post


@ chip

i don't think goldman is a political issue. they bribe whoever they need to, be it republican or democrat. it's obvious though that the kind of de-regulation laws that made all these shenanigans possible have been almost exclusively drafted by conservative, pro-business people, fueled by a conservative, pro-business agenda. i guess the only reason for the democrats being the main "benefactor" donations-wise, if you will, is that goldman feels like it's way more necessary to bribe dems. they got the vast majority of the reps in the tank anyways, mostly because they're obedient enough. no need to splash 3-d glasses on the blind.
Conservatives never "de-regulated" the mortgage market. It was de-regulated from the start until Democrats created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and enacted affirmative-action lending laws, each of which funneled loans to people who couldn't pay them off. The Federal Reserve--a government institution--just added fuel to the fire by setting interest rates artificially low. The mortgage market worked fine until government interference distorted it. What you're essentially arguing for is to have the government interfere with the market in an attempt to blunt the negative consequences of its previous interferences. Why not just completely roll back the legislation that caused the distortion in the first place?

As for the bolded part above, this is completely incorrect. It's Republicans who are the main obstacle to legislation that the big banks have endorsed. In the Senate hearings last week Lloyd Blankflein, CEO of Goldman Sachs, was asked point-blank what he thought of the pending legislation. He endorsed it. On a conference call last week he discussed the reform bill and said this: "We will be among the biggest beneficiaries of financial reform".

http://www.businessinsider.com/lloyd...-reform-2010-5)

Awesome. Don't kid yourself, this bill was written by the big banks for the big banks, via primarily Democrats, who need all the money they can get after the health-care disaster. The big banks like it because it entrenches a bailout system (small banks aren't eligible since they're not "too big to fail"). For the big guys, profits are permanently privatized, losses permanently socialized. They'll never face any serious competition from some uppity small bank. The Federal Reserve, which was created by the big bankers (including JP Morgan himself) a century ago, has given big banks an advantage for decades since smaller banks don't have access to the discount window and the cheap cash that comes with it. Sure, the legislators will throw in some seemingly tough regulations or some new government agency, but the big banks can get around it because the new bureaucrat will be one of them. Big business by itself isn't the problem. Big business controlling the government is the problem. This bill just makes that worse.

And yes, Republicans have been just as guilty with this type of stuff. Not this time, though. Both parties truly do suck.
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post #119 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

i'm sorry, but if you really believe that the dems' shit regarding all things banking deregulation stinks more than the reps' shit, i just can't help you. spin it all you want, but i'm sure deep down you know fully well that it's the right wing that the banks don't need to worry about, not the left wing.
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post #120 of 1005 (permalink) Old 05-12-2010, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

so bank of america and jp morgan join goldman in the "no-trading-loss-ever" club.

since things in reality tend to be zero sum, when everyone makes money, someone may be tempted to ask the question, just who is losing money here day in day out?

i'm fairly sure it's all of us.
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