Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
I get your point man but I think the difference is that a lot of metal fans identify "metal" as being an inherently positive term whereas for me it's merely neutral and descriptive. There's a lot of shit metal out there. Whereas I'd consider the vast majority of music that got labelled nu-metal as absolute horseshit I'd still describe it as metal.
I see how my earlier definition could be too broad for some but I don't think it makes sense to say that because one band doesn't sit along something that's definitely metal that it means they're not metal. I mean grindcore bands like Pig Destroyer and Nasum don't exactly sound a lot like Sabbath. Same for a lot of death/black metal but no one's going to say Sabbath aren't metal.
AIC have that undefinable sludgey heaviness that marks them as a metal band for me. Jerry Cantrell says they're a metal band anyway.
basically, my definition is broad and lazy cos I don't really care how people use labels. If a bunch of metal heads tell me that ETID and Converge are lame hardcore shit I'm not gonna lose any sleep.
Its not really an issue of the quality of the bands, its just that they don't fit in the genre. Like the nu metal bands, what about korn, or the deftones, or linkin park, or mudvayne, or crazytown was metal? There was distortion sure, but thats about as far as it goes. Bands like Slipknot have some metal influences but the whole detuned distorted riff thing is also an element of grunge, and most of these bands riff structures come more from grunge than from old school metal. Then you get the rock, hip hop and electronic influences that many of those bands brought in, and the metal influence i really on the backburner. I mean, the only thing metal that any of those bands had was the odd metal riff and the odd burst of double kick. AIC on the other hand for sure has a lot of sludgy parts and similarities can definitely be drawn to the old classic metal bands. For me, if AIC are a metal band, then where do you draw the line for hard rock? Their style of riffing is very much in line with the hard rock of the last 2 decades, Stanley's vocals were definitely grunge, the drum lines are thoroughly based in rock patterns, so the only metal element really is the sludgy feel. Another thing, members of bands say a lot of things. Trivium said that The Crusade would be "ridiculously technical thrash metal", while it was basically neither. Anyhow, AIC are on metal archives which means enough people see them as metal that it makes no difference.
ETID and Converge are definitely metalcore but to me at least are two of the highlights of that genre.
Wow that was kind of a waste of time writing all that out