Clydey and Friends' Philosophical Paradise - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Is Hinduism more or less rational than the major religions?
It's more rational. 1 3.70%
It's less rational. 3 11.11%
It is no more and no less rational than any other religion ou there. 12 44.44%
I don't know enough about it to give an educated opinion. 11 40.74%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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post #16 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by RagingLamb View Post
Homosexuality is from what I understand not a genetic trait, and hence not a heritable trait. So evolution can't really work on it. If homosexuality was "evolutionarily inferior" it would have ceased to exist a long time ago.
It didn't suggest that it was a heritable trait. It might be, but there is as yet no real evidence to support that theory. However, that is besides the point. Something needn't be heritable to impact on the species.

If all men suddenly decided to get a vasectomy, it would impact on human evolution. I am not talking about a "gay gene". I am talking about the likelihood of one's genes being passed on. Homosexuals are obviously far less likely to procreate.

And no, even if it was genetic it would not necessarily have ceased to exist. Why do you think wisdom teeth persist?

'Nous nous tournons vers l’Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' - Voltaire
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post #17 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 02:38 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

one question: only the species that have sex for pleasure have a large number of homosexual individuals?
in my mind these two concepts have always been linked for some reason

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post #18 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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one question: only the species that have sex for pleasure have a large number of homosexual individuals?
in my mind these two concepts have always been linked for some reason
Homosexuality has been observed in nature, too.

'Nous nous tournons vers l’Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' - Voltaire
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post #19 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 02:52 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

Dude having or not having wisdom teeth has no effect on someone's likelihood of passing along his or her genetic material, that's why wisdom teeth still exist. Because people with wisdom teeth keep having children.

Worker bees cannot reproduce but their species would not survive without them.
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post #20 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 02:54 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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And no, even if it was genetic it would not necessarily have ceased to exist. Why do you think wisdom teeth persist?
I said if it was "evolutionarily inferior" it would have ceased to exist. Not if it was genetic.


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It didn't suggest that it was a heritable trait. It might be, but there is as yet no real evidence to support that theory.
Yes, if anything, it seems like it's triggered by environmental events. Evolution can only work on heritable traits. So it's not accurate to call homosexuals "inferior from an evolutionary perspective", since evolution does not act on homosexuality.

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However, that is besides the point. Something needn't be heritable to impact on the species. If all men suddenly decided to get a vasectomy, it would impact on human evolution. I am not talking about a "gay gene". I am talking about the likelihood of one's genes being passed on. Homosexuals are obviously far less likely to procreate.
You don't know that for sure. But let's assume that homosexuals are in fact less likely to pass on their genes. This will do absolutely nothing to homosexuality itself. And I'm not sure how it really matters how much of their genes they will pass on.
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post #21 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:03 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Worker bees cannot reproduce but their species would not survive without them.
Great example. A priori, inability to reproduce is NOT a sure sign of lack of Darwinian adaptation. Individuals who are unable to reproduce may help the species perpetuate in other ways, for example by keeping individuals who can reproduce safe and healthy. And indeed this has been observed from gay individuals in some species. Besides, gay homo sapiens can and often do reproduce, though I guess at a lower rate than heterosexuals.
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post #22 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:04 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by RagingLamb View Post
Homosexuality is from what I understand not a genetic trait, and hence not a heritable trait. So evolution can't really work on it. If homosexuality was "evolutionarily inferior" it would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

Great post. Exactly what I think and why this thread is ridiculous.

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post #23 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Snoo Foo View Post
Dude having or not having wisdom teeth has no effect on someone's likelihood of passing along his or her genetic material, that's why wisdom teeth still exist. Because people with wisdom teeth keep having children.

Worker bees cannot reproduce but their species would not survive without them.
Homosexuals can and do still reproduce. They just don't do it nearly as often as heterosexuals. The point I was making when I mentioned wisdom teeth is that evolution isn't perfect. And that even if homosexuality was a heritable trait, it would not automatically be wiped out.

Anyway, it is besides the point. The simple fact is that homosexuals are much less likely to pass on their genes. It is indisputable. People need to stop taking it the wrong way. It does not mean that homosexuals are morally inferior.

It cannot be disputed that they are inferior from an evolutionary perspective. Arguing otherwise is absurd. I thought we had cleared this up earlier when everyone seemingly began to understand the simplicity of what I was saying. I am not advocating social darwinism or saying that homosexuals are worth less than heterosexuals. I clarified what Prima Donna was trying to say. That's all.

And I don't see what parallels you are drawing between worker bees and homosexuals. Humanity would survive without homosexuals. It is in no way similar to worker bees being a necessity for their species.

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post #24 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:05 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

I doubt any evidence that homosexuality is genetic.

It's just a matter of taste.

In Ancient Greece and Rome, it was the only kind of intercourse intended for pleasure.

Were all Romans and Greeks genetically homosexual?

Bullshit.
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post #25 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:06 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by LocoPorElTenis View Post
Great example. A priori, inability to reproduce is NOT a sure sign of lack of Darwinian adaptation. Individuals who are unable to reproduce may help the species perpetuate in other ways, for example by keeping individuals who can reproduce safe and healthy. And indeed this has been observed from gay individuals in some species. Besides, gay homo sapiens can and often do reproduce, though I guess at a lower rate than heterosexuals.
Is there any real evidence for this? Or do gay individuals have a reduced desire to have children? I don't think this is true.
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post #26 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:09 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
Homosexuals can and do still reproduce. They just don't do it nearly as often as heterosexuals. The point I was making when I mentioned wisdom teeth is that evolution isn't perfect. And that even if homosexuality was a heritable trait, it would not automatically be wiped out.
Well if your argument that homosexuality is coupled with fewer offspring is true, then homosexuality would be wiped out if it was genetic, since it would obviously affect sexual reproduction.
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post #27 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:12 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
The point I was making when I mentioned wisdom teeth is that evolution isn't perfect.
how the hell do wisdom teeth show that evolution isn't perfect? wisdom teeth are an example of how amazing evolution is.

Quote:
Humanity would survive without homosexuals. It is in no way similar to worker bees being a necessity for their species.
yeah, and humanity will survive with homosexuals.
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post #28 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:13 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

males in general feel less need to reproduce than females, maybe because we have only a small age window to reproduce, unlike males who can fertilize till old age, so they usually don't hurry much about getting offspring as we females do

in my mind, reproduction is more a matter of genre and age than a matter of sexual preference

the homosexual male needs to find a suitable womb to fertilize, while homosexual females only need the fertilizer, which I think is easier, specially with sperm banks and such

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post #29 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:17 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

^males could donate to sperm banks.
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post #30 of 699 (permalink) Old 11-30-2008, 03:20 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

there are also egg donors and gestational surrogates so really $$$ is the only thing keeping a gay man from passing his own genes on to his child.
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