Clydey and Friends' Philosophical Paradise - Page 11 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Is Hinduism more or less rational than the major religions?
It's more rational. 1 3.70%
It's less rational. 3 11.11%
It is no more and no less rational than any other religion ou there. 12 44.44%
I don't know enough about it to give an educated opinion. 11 40.74%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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post #151 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Not even to mention the couples who decide to stay childfree, for very good reasons... obviously inferior people, not wanting to pass on their genes!
I didn't say homosexuals were biologically inferior. This is what happens when people don't take the time to properly read others' arguments.

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post #152 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 12:02 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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I didn't say homosexuals were biologically inferior. This is what happens when people don't take the time to properly read others' arguments.
You didn't say so, I know. I know you're okay, you're just being at the nasty end of recieving the hitting lately. I just wanted to point this out to some others, who obviously didn't give the whole subject a 'second thought'.

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post #153 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 12:09 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

Wasn't this stupid "discussion" already over?
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post #154 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 12:12 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Wasn't this stupid "discussion" already over?
Unfortunately, as long as Planet Earth is still ruled by Silly Religions and combined prejudice, it is never over...

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post #155 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 12:32 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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^^ Great post. You seem to know quite a bit about genetics and the influence of hormones on a child in the womb...

Are you a doc or a medical biologist (or studying)?

Thanks.
I wish. I'm a sophomore still majoring biological sciences, but I'm trying to get into med school.
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post #156 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 12:48 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Thanks.
I wish. I'm a sophomore still majoring biological sciences, but I'm trying to get into med school.
I somewhere got that impression.

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post #157 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 12:56 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Unfortunately, as long as Planet Earth is still ruled by Silly Religions and combined prejudice, it is never over...
Karin, the issue isn't religion on itself, it's the use some people make of them: fundamentalists, haters, etc; the religions are basically codes of behavior, how people should live (see the Torah for jewish, the Bible for christians, the Qur'an for muslims, etc), and it's up to everyone to take that and make the best or the worst of it but it never actually teaches hate

the whole issue is the human nature, that always twists words and make things to their advantage, for example, where in the Bible it says that drinking coffee or smoking isn't permited? , it doesn't, but still people take that and twist the words to get what they want

even if religions didn't exists, prejudice is an even bigger part of the human race, our inability to respect differences and to live in peace, our most basic animal tells us to reject those who aren't exactly like us

see in the communist countries, religion wasn't permitted and yet there were tons of prejudices against the homosexuals

there's nothing more dangerous than a religious/atheist fanatic, because you can buy a normal terrorist, but you cannot buy their faith/lack of

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post #158 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 01:12 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

^^ Great post, Nat.

Still I can't help but to see a lot of prejudice coming mainly from religiously-inspired folks.

As such I'm particularly vulnerable to those who think that they are 'Morally Superior' because they have some kind of 'god' to bow for.

Well, eh - NO. I follow very simple rules - 'don't do to others which you don't want to see done to yourself' - and in that case, there's no 'god' necessary...

In fact, I don't think worshiping a 'god' is necessary at all...

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Am I still here? As one, with The Fear?
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post #159 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 01:16 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

Religious overzeal is just one manifestation of human intolerance. Witness Political correction, nothing to do with religion but IMO the biggest danger right now to some of the basic liberties in our so called "free world".
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post #160 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 01:24 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

MrsFedex: That's true to an extent, but there are VERY questionable claims in all of those texts, and those for other religions. I do agree though that its human nature and not religion to blame. I guess my disagreement is that I see religion as a product of human nature; I don't see it as human nature distorting religion.

Personally I agree with Stupid Dream (can I just call you Karin since everyone seems to?), religion is not necessary to be an ethical person. I can decide for myself what's right and what's wrong based on a combination of rationality and care for others.

The other thing worth noting I think is that Atheism is every bit as much a religion as Christianity or Islam, it simply requires faith that god doesn't exist. It's still faith all the same and is thus irrational.

And the last amendment I'd make to your otherwise good post MrsFedex is that of course anyone given to ideologically driven violence is dangerous. For instance, the example of communism that you brought up. Sure communism and nazism both embraced some ideals founded in athiesm (LOL @ hitler making a deal with the pope), but the ideologies that drove the radicalism in those countries was not at all religious in nature.

Just my 2 cents.
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post #161 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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MrsFedex: That's true to an extent, but there are VERY questionable claims in all of those texts, and those for other religions. I do agree though that its human nature and not religion to blame. I guess my disagreement is that I see religion as a product of human nature; I don't see it as human nature distorting religion.

Personally I agree with Stupid Dream (can I just call you Karin since everyone seems to?), religion is not necessary to be an ethical person. I can decide for myself what's right and what's wrong based on a combination of rationality and care for others.

The other thing worth noting I think is that Atheism is every bit as much a religion as Christianity or Islam, it simply requires faith that god doesn't exist. It's still faith all the same and is thus irrational.
Atheism requires faith? I really have no idea how you could come to that conclusion. Atheism is simply the absence of a belief in deities. It is nothing more and nothing less. That does not require faith. Tell me, do you think that not believing in Zeus requires faith? If I do not believe in Zeus, am I being irrational?

Not believing in something has nothing to do with faith. There are many, many things we do not believe in. Religious people assert that there is a god. The burden of proof, therefore, is on them. To call a lack of belief in a supernatural entity irrational is absurd.

'Nous nous tournons vers l’Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' - Voltaire
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post #162 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 01:36 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

As usual Karin: AWESOME

excellent post Ghost! (I'm Nat, what's your name? )

I think the main point of my post is that not every religious person is a fanatical or thinks it's morally superior to others (I'm catholic and yet I don't keep preaching at anyone, to each one its own)

of course, you know some people that are... , I know some Opus Dei dudes that make the Pope look liberal

you cannot judge all religious people on the same basis, my religion gives me sense of peace and a balance to my life, other people don't need it and that's absolutely respetable as well, it's just a way to see life

BTW: I agree with you in that are very questionable stuff in the religion books, but you have to understand the time and the culture in which those were written, a lot of things can be still applied in our times (like the Gospels and the Epistles) and others cannot (like Leviticus or the Ecclesiastes, which are more about history than religion itself for christians); also, it all depends on the interpretation you give them, they are usually vague enough to allow a lot of different interpretations

the whole point in here goes beyond religion and politics, it's INTOLERANCE and FEAR OF DIFFERENCES, it's present in every culture, in every politic system, the homosexual population has been one of the most hated and it all comes down to rejection of those who are different

Clydey: atheism is a faith, because you cannot scientifically prove that God doesn't exist or exist, so it's all about having faith on a higher entity or having other kind of faith (for example, many atheists I know are humanists and have faith on mankind) the rational approach to that matter is called agnosticism: you can't prove that it exists, but cannot prove that it doesn't

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Last edited by Arkulari; 12-02-2008 at 01:45 AM.
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post #163 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 01:39 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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Atheism requires faith? I really have no idea how you could come to that conclusion. Atheism is simply the absence of a belief in deities. It is nothing more and nothing less. That does not require faith. Tell me, do you think that not believing in Zeus requires faith? If I do not believe in Zeus, am I being irrational?

Not believing in something has nothing to do with faith. There are many, many things we do not believe in. Religious people assert that there is a god. The burden of proof, therefore, is on them. To call a lack of belief in a supernatural entity irrational is absurd.


The whole thing is that some people - yes, that includes me - think there's no need to believe in a 'god'. Why do you feel the need there should be 'Someone looking after us?'- I don't get it. Just treat your fellows like you want to be treated youself, eh?
In the end, all of us just end up 'Dust to Dust'. And there's nothing wrong with that, I think...

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Am I still here? As one, with The Fear?
Am I still alive? I'm still f*cking ... Here...!"


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post #164 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

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As usual Karin: AWESOME

excellent post Ghost! (I'm Nat, what's your name? )

I think the main point of my post is that not every religious person is a fanatical or thinks it's morally superior to others (I'm catholic and yet I don't keep preaching at anyone, to each one its own)

of course, you know some people that are... , I know some Opus Dei dudes that make the Pope look liberal

you cannot judge all religious people on the same basis, my religion gives me sense of peace and a balance to my life, other people don't need it and that's absolutely respetable as well, it's just a way to see life

the whole point in here goes beyond religion and politics, it's INTOLERANCE and FEAR OF DIFFERENCES, it's present in every culture, in every politic system, the homosexual population has been one of the most hated and it all comes down to rejection of those who are different

Clydey: atheism is a faith, because you cannot scientifically prove that God doesn't exist or exist, so it's all about having faith on a higher entity or having other kind of faith (for example, many atheists I know are humanists and have faith on mankind) the rational approach to that matter is called agnosticism: you can't prove that it exists, but cannot prove that it doesn't
You cannot prove a negative. Can you scientifically prove that fairies don't exist? Of course you can't.

Richard Dawkins described what he feels is a sliding scale of belief.

1. Total belief in a supernatural deity.

4. Undecided.

7. Total disbelief.

Most atheists would consider themselves a 6 on that scale. They have a firm belief that God doesn't exist, but don't assert with 100% conviction. We cannot be certain of anything, after all. Therefore, technically we are agnostics. In practice, we are atheists.

I am an Afairiest, too. I don't believe that fairies exist, but I cannot say that with 100% certainty. No one can. The point is that if you say a supernatural deity exists, the burden of proof is on you. It is literally impossible for anyone to debunk that claim, just as it is impossible for anyone to disprove the existence of fairies.

Is my lack of belief in fairies also irrational?

'Nous nous tournons vers l’Écosse pour trouver toutes nos idées sur la civilisation' - Voltaire
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post #165 of 699 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 01:48 AM
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Re: Homosexuality and Evolution

I do get your point now Clydey
it's up to everyone to believe or not, as long as you don't hurt others, you're free to do with your life and your beliefs (or lack of) as you please
what I cannot stand on any level is intolerance, which is the mother (greed is the father ) of all human issues

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