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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:03 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

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This would have been shocking news 2 months ago when Hilary and Giuliani were the clear front runners.
According to Real Clear Politics's average of national polls, they both still are, although Clinton's lead is a very solid +21.2, while Guiliani is limping along at +2.8.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:03 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

Not to offend anyone, but these results don't tell me that the Iowa voters are so politically intelligent.

I have no problem with the concept of this caucus, but I have a problem with individuals being required to state their vote publicly, even if it is in front of a small group of people.

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:05 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

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No, I was responding to the two posters directly above my posts (yes, I should have quoted them). Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for the clarification. I should've assumed as much.

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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:08 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

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Originally Posted by Fee View Post
Not to offend anyone, but these results don't tell me that the Iowa voters are so politically intelligent.

I have no problem with the concept of this caucus, but I have a problem with individuals being required to state their vote publicly, even if it is in front of a small group of people.
Only the Democrats do that. The Republicans use the traditional paper ballot.

The goal is to convince others to vote for the candidate of your choice, so that's why it's a public vote. They're allowed to make speeches to support their candidates. The caucuses are dominated by party activists, which is why the public votes make sense.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:26 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

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Not to offend anyone, but these results don't tell me that the Iowa voters are so politically intelligent.
Not offended. That's fine.

I don't think that's what tonight's results were meant to prove or disprove anyway.

I wasn't talking about voting results standing as a representation of someone's intelligence. I was referring to the positive aspects of the campaigning process leading up to tonight. The classic interaction among candidates and the public. I originally quoted the phrase that said, "politically educated voters who put candidates through a lot of tough questioning."

I stand by that. I didn't say - nor would I say - that they're more intelligent than the rest of the American populace. I'm saying that these people are politically informed enough (much more so than outsiders realize) to make this odd system work well and serve an interesting function in our country - even if only for a brief time.

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:54 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

Good points Fensler, thanks.

My main problem with this is the incredible amount of hype it gets when it is only one state out of 50. No one is a loser tonight, and none of these candidates should even consider ending their campaigns either here or in New Hampshire. Everyone should stay in until Florida or one of the other more diverse states has their primary (then both parties should do some serious reform for the next cycle that includes regional primaries and a compact schedule that starts the first week of March. But that's just my opinion...).

Best twitter posts of the epic match:

@dougrobson - Whoever is supplying Mahut with hair gel needs to ink a sponsorship deal now.

@Wimbledon - FYI, with @Wimbledon live scoring devices, please add 50 to the games in the fifth set of the Isner v Mahut match.

@HolterMedia - Nice to see that a three-day test has come to tennis here @wimbledon.



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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 03:56 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

Obama

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 04:03 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

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Obama

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 05:20 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

So what does this all really mean? I was hoping to see Hilary in the white house, does this hurt her chances at all?
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 05:31 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

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So what does this all really mean? I was hoping to see Hilary in the white house, does this hurt her chances at all?

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 05:40 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

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Good points Fensler, thanks.

My main problem with this is the incredible amount of hype it gets when it is only one state out of 50.
This is a reasonable point, for sure. I'd say our national media is more at fault in regard to the hype than the caucus itself is. It's no secret that CNN, Fox News, et al. like to engage in histrionics - whatever the topic may be.

P.S. Thanks for being civil in your responses. It's a nice contrast to what I'm seeing on some other messageboards.

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 05:51 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

A news report I read said that Obama won 16 'delegates', Clinton 15 and Edwards 14. I thought it was 'winner takes it all' in US elections, or is that only for the final presidential election, or does it vary by state for the primaries?

In any case Obama is from Illinois which borders Iowa so he probably benefitted from that.


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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 07:11 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

Fensler, thanks for the compliment. I have no reason to call you names just because we disagree, that's childish.

'Tank' - the presidential primaries are a different animal than most other types of elections in the US. This is basically a party nominating process, not really an 'election' at this point, so yes, the candidates are getting delegates instead of just votes. In recent years the nominees have been decided well before the conventions (in the summer), and the other candidates drop out when the winner becomes clear. I think the last time either party actually did a real ballot at the convention was back in the 1950's. Pretty sure that both parties will have a clear cut nominee by the end of February if not sooner. It's just too expensive to campaign in the US, and if someone isn't winning and getting press, the donors will fade away and force the candidate to drop out.

In the general election in the fall, the candidates will try to win the states, which turns into electoral college votes, which creates the winner. I think there are two states that award their electoral college votes by congressional district, but all of the rest are winner take all (including the big prizes - California, Texas, New York, and Florida).

Best twitter posts of the epic match:

@dougrobson - Whoever is supplying Mahut with hair gel needs to ink a sponsorship deal now.

@Wimbledon - FYI, with @Wimbledon live scoring devices, please add 50 to the games in the fifth set of the Isner v Mahut match.

@HolterMedia - Nice to see that a three-day test has come to tennis here @wimbledon.



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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 09:22 AM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

I'm happy for Barrack who showed that he's a strong candidate...not the tail of hhillary

In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. (Albert Einstein)

I would love to see that!
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 12:21 PM
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Re: Iowa Caucus

Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanLjubicic View Post
So what does this all really mean? I was hoping to see Hilary in the white house, does this hurt her chances at all?
HRC still has a strong lead in national polls (for the party nomination), so it's much too early to tell whether it means much. Obama attracted lots of college students and also party activists, who tend to go to the caucuses.

The bigger surprise is that Huckabee managed to do so well with so little money spent in the state. His campaign is doing something right, obviously. If he pulls close to Romney and/or Guiliani in larger states, I think they'll talk to him about accepting the VP slot.
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