Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!) - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 01:26 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

You are the same people who would have called Churchill a wacko in the early 30s. Oh and Undomiele would America have been better off had we not had a Civil War?
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 01:40 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

The Iraqi civil war is going to be much different than the U.S. Civil war. You may count on that. But, yes, the U.S. would have been better off it slavery could have been ended without a Civil War. If the issues could have been settled peacefully it would have been better. This country and particularly the southern states suffered for more than a half century from the effects of that war. To some extent we feel the effects still.

Had slavery been ended through the will of the people, it might have also been better for the decendents of the slaves.

There is no evidence that the Iraqis had any plans for world domination as did Nazi Germany. The analogy with Churchill is inapt.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 01:52 AM
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No honey the Churchill analogy holds up because Saddamn did have plans for world domination. After he took over Kuwait he had his eye on Saudi Arabia. So Saddamn was planning to expand his empire. Muslim fanatics have the same desire. Slavery was a small issue in the war. South wanted to create a seperate country and slavery never would have ended had the South won. Also predicting an Iraq civil war is still far in future. It may or may not happen. Of course if we never liberated Iraq and everyone was under Saddamn's thumb then Star and her kind would be happy and content.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 02:58 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

Please. You are talking to someone who has studied the Civil War extensively. Slavery was not a small issue in the Civil war. The south wanted to create a separate country because they wanted to preserve the right to own slaves which they believed was threatened by the northern abolistionist movment. It was the collapse of the Missouri Compromise which was directly related to the slavery issue that was one of the catalysts for the war. The election of Abraham Lincoln a staunch opponent of slavery was another. Those who think that had the South won, slavery would have ended are sadly mistaken in their understanding of history. This is an apologist position that was created in order to absolve the confederacy. I do think that slavery would have ended eventually, but it would have taken much much longer. It was not as if the confederacy was planing to end slavery at the successful conclusion of the war. Without the issue of slavery between the north and the south there never would have been a desire to form a separate country and no civil war.

Again, in terms of history, at the time of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, there were no plans of world or even regional domination. The Iraqis were repelled from Kuwait and I had no difficulties with that military operation. I do think that there was massive diplomatic bungling by the Bush,Sr. administration prior to the invasion of Kuwait that contributed to the invasion.

You seem to be fond of extremism when constructing an argument. To think that one who opposes the current Iraqi policy was "happy" with Sadaam is clearly wrong. I would think that those who defended Sadaam or any of his policies would be in the vast minority. Again, you are stooping to ad hominem attacks instead of adhereing to rational discussion.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

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Of course if we never liberated Iraq and everyone was under Saddamn's thumb then Star and her kind would be happy and content.
Isn't it nice how Dirk uses liberation as a synonym for unlawful invasion? In case you didn't notice, the Iraqis didn't exactly welcome the Americans with open arms and roses. And if the US really believed in granting them democracy then why is the US so eager to contract their infrastructure and public insitutions to exclusivley american contractors (who by the way are robbing both the Iraqi ppl and US Gove't blind)?. And why this Iraqi Council bullshit??? The Iraqis before the 1st Gulf War were the most educated people with one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East. They're more than qualified to hold nationwide elections and have, actually, done so before on a more localized level.

But what the fuck do you care whether or not Iraq goes through a civil war anyway Dirk? They're all just "subhuman animals" to you right?

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Last edited by undomiele; 05-24-2004 at 03:12 AM.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 03:10 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

Star I was right in my post of the Civil War. I wrote that Slavery wouldn't have ended had the south won. Thanks for adding more info. Funny how you place more blame on Bush Sr, than Saddamn for the Kuwait invasion. The only reason Iraq couldn't invade another country is because Saddamn knew he would be finished had he tried, but he did try in the early 90s. Oh and if we never did liberate Iraq ( I know I know Star, we shouldn't have liberated Europe and Japan because god forbid we bomb and kill innocent civilians) Saddamn would still be there and the wonderful humanitarians of the world would be content. Star I will send you a PM about information regarding one of the al-Qaida links that was recently discovered if you wish. I've given up on this topic. Its a waste of energy. I will make it a point to avoid Non-Tennis Forum. Oh and thanks for writing up a brief on the Civil War. Oh and I'm not being sarcastic this time.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 03:18 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

Undomiele, We went under UN resolution 1441. It was not unlawful. Clearly you missed the images of people cheering the soliders as they were coming into Baghdad. Contractors are from all parts of the coalition. We are not robbing them blind dumbass, the 87 billion the US is giving them has a clause it in that Bush fought very hard for. They don't have to repay it, so they are no being robbed because they are not paying for it. The Kurds in the north had more freedom since Saddamn's power wasn't as great up in the north. Nobody is saying their not educated or qualified, some local elections have already taken place in Iraq. Its a little hard to hold an election if terrorists and former Bath party members don't want it to happen. They need us there for security reasons right now. The ones who are killing our troops and Iraqis who are working toward democracy are the animals and subhumans. Sadly I need to point everything out to you liberals. You have no ability to subtext.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 03:21 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

Again you are wrong. I do not place more blame on the U.S. administration than I do on Sadaam. You make up positons for people simply in order to refute them. In debate, this is called setting up a straw man. It is a devious method of debate.

Yes, of course, Sadaam was foiled in his attempt to conquer territory. But nevertheless he was at a standstill on that score, and, thus, the Churchill analogy fails.

And it is only my speculation that slavery would have ended. I say that because of the way the world was evolving. It may have been that slavery would have been ended in the Confederacy by an invasion from the outside or by rebellion from within. I doubt very much from knowing the economy and politics of the Confederacy that it would have happened at all by legal or peaceful means. I also think that the Confederacy was doomed because various states would have spun off to form their own countries. The "states rights" position was doomed for failure.
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-24-2004, 03:39 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

It was because Saddamn was foiled that he didn't turn into Hitler. So the Churchill analogy does stand. Had UK and Europe listened to him early on, many lives would have been spared.
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2004, 04:17 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

I have one simple sentence to say: BUSH IS THE MOST HORRIBLE, IGNORANT EXCUSE FOR A PRESDIENT IN A GOOD MANY YEARS!!! I cant tell you how many pictures i've seen in newspapers, and on the News, of destruction, total chaos, all because of 1 selfish PRICK: BUSH!!! Millions of lives thrown away because of this dictator. hmmm. Where are those weapons of mass destruction, Mr President He went after Sadamm for 1 reason, and 1 reason only: To try to take revenge for his father, that was nearly killed by Sadamm awhile ago. Comparing Sadamm to Hitler is outragous. He didnt have near the weapons or power to be a threat for the US. But comparing Bush to Hitler is more accurate. Soon this fucker, will be just cutting away at are rights as citizens. But, alas, i forgot, its quite alright for no reason to go and invade a country, and in the process lossing many, many lives on either sides. Its unfortuante, that all of the Great presidents were assinated. Abraham Lincoln: One of the greatest Presidents in the history of the US, assinated, killed. Yet for once cant the evil ones be killed. Bush is clearly one of the worst presidents EVER, and is an evil DICTATOR himself. Sadamm was a dictator, but was it HE that sent our planes crashing into our towers. NO!!! Where's the man that actually did this all! Where is Bin Laden. I know he's still out there, alive, preparing for plan B. He'll make us all pay for focusing on Sadamm, and Iraq, and not trying to get the real culprit, the real murderer. You can be sure of that. They'll never find him. We turned are attention to Iraq, because Bush had his own personal reasons with Sadamm, therefor letting Osma escape.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2004, 05:42 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

Quote:
But, yes, the U.S. would have been better off it slavery could have been ended without a Civil War. If the issues could have been settled peacefully it would have been better. This country and particularly the southern states suffered for more than a half century from the effects of that war. To some extent we feel the effects still.

Had slavery been ended through the will of the people, it might have also been better for the decendents of the slaves.
Sorry- but I have to disagree- slavery was not ending that way, they tried for decades. There had been efforts to end slavery in a diplomatic way for years. Therefore there needed to be a war. I grew up in the South from a family who has been there a long time (yes I was a deb)...fled to Chicago... where my heart now lies...and all I can tell you is that slavery needed to end as soon as it could. If a war ended it- thank ye mighty gawds. Slavery needed to end as quickly as possible and if war happened as a result- well then that's the most noble reason and the most true reason for war that exists. One of my to be bridesmaids is a true descendent of slaves (her family is being interviewed for a fantastic oral history project btw) and I do not think that she or frankly anyone of my chums would think that the Civil War was bad. Anything that really helped end the oppression of a whole group of humankind is imo a very, very good thing.

Sorry to go off on a tangent......

Last edited by Clara Bow; 06-26-2004 at 05:55 AM.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2004, 06:40 AM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

Peace required. I like Clinton
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-27-2004, 09:37 PM
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Re: Get Americans Abroad Registered to VOTE~~~! (Against Bush!)

this thread is full of ignorance and arrogance
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