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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-25-2007, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

The family of US soldier Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire, are outraged over the subsequent coverup and the lies put out by the Army that he died a hero, engaging the enemy.
Now that the truth is out, a US army spokesman has said on ESPN (Tillman was a professional football player that gave it all up to join the army after 9/11) that the real problem for the family is that ''they have to get their heads around the fact that their son was an atheist and therefore just worm dirt.''
So this is the army that is going to bring democracy to the rest of the world?
Imus is gone but so far the spokesman has not been punished.

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 12:31 AM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

The problem is that Tillman is a hero to the right wing so you won't see the left bitch about this. The right would not care about this either.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 08:46 AM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

So let me get this straight, someone can say something like this in the States and no one, not right or left, cares? You gotta love the US... But good to know that I'm just worm dirt.

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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 01:08 AM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

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Originally Posted by Joyce_23 View Post
So let me get this straight, someone can say something like this in the States and no one, not right or left, cares? You gotta love the US... But good to know that I'm just worm dirt.
I don't think so.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 01:09 AM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
The family of US soldier Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire, are outraged over the subsequent coverup and the lies put out by the Army that he died a hero, engaging the enemy.
Now that the truth is out, a US army spokesman has said on ESPN (Tillman was a professional football player that gave it all up to join the army after 9/11) that the real problem for the family is that ''they have to get their heads around the fact that their son was an atheist and therefore just worm dirt.''
So this is the army that is going to bring democracy to the rest of the world?
Imus is gone but so far the spokesman has not been punished.
When is this happened? Any source?
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 01:10 AM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

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The problem is that Tillman is a hero to the right wing so you won't see the left bitch about this. The right would not care about this either.
No.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 12:57 PM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

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Originally Posted by Lee View Post
When is this happened? Any source?
There´s a long report (4 parts, links under the banner) in http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...e=tillmanpart1

Quote:
Kauzlarich, now a battalion commanding officer at Fort Riley in Kansas, further suggested the Tillman family's unhappiness with the findings of past investigations might be because of the absence of a Christian faith in their lives.

In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more — that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough."

Asked by ESPN.com whether the Tillmans' religious beliefs are a factor in the ongoing investigation, Kauzlarich said, "I think so. There is not a whole lot of trust in the system or faith in the system [by the Tillmans]. So that is my personal opinion, knowing what I know."
But you can find more sources/reports/articles if you google 'atheist dirt Tillman', for example http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...an&btnG=Search

I personally find it 'offensive' (just to use one word) that one person/family religious believes, or lack of them, is considered a 'factor' in this kind of investigation or that the issue is brought up in this specific situation. So wrong...

Last edited by lau; 04-27-2007 at 01:06 PM.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 01:24 PM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

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In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more — that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough.
I don't find this that offensive really (but I've only read the quotes here and not the full report).

He simply seems to wonder how an atheist deals with the death of a loved one.
Because those left behind who are believers can still hold on to their belief that there's something more. But how does an atheist deal with the fact that the life of a loved one was interrupted so soon and that's it.


Why is there so much fuss over this quote?
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 02:03 PM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

After reading the quote I dont' think the "worm dirt" reference is so bad but I fail to see what the Tillmans relgious beliefs (or absence of them) has to do with their desire for the truth. As a person who is reliegious, I would want to know the truth what happened and I would be outraged that the death of a love one was used as a political propaganda. I think any family would want to know the truth regardless of relgious background. The corollary to that would be that if you do believe in an after life, you wouldn't care what the truth was about a love ones death? I dont' think that stands up.

( I think the reason its hasn't gotten much attention is that its from ESPN-a sports channel, not a news channel. From what I've seen of sportscasters, they're not the most insightful bunch, not what you could call deep thinkers. Take them out of their comfort zone of sports and they're bound to say something like this. Really, most listeners probably didn't even pick up on the referance. )

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

Quote:
Originally Posted by lau View Post
There´s a long report (4 parts, links under the banner) in http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...e=tillmanpart1



But you can find more sources/reports/articles if you google 'atheist dirt Tillman', for example http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...an&btnG=Search

I personally find it 'offensive' (just to use one word) that one person/family religious believes, or lack of them, is considered a 'factor' in this kind of investigation or that the issue is brought up in this specific situation. So wrong...
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
Why is there so much fuss over this quote?
Because he said that atheists were ''worm dirt'' and therefore implied that Christians were something better. Why are you confused?
It would be OK for an atheist army spokesman to say of a soldier killed in action ''Well he was only a Christian, so he thought he could go be happy in another life anyway, no big deal"?

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

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Originally Posted by Sparko1030 View Post
( I think the reason its hasn't gotten much attention is that its from ESPN-a sports channel, not a news channel. From what I've seen of sportscasters, they're not the most insightful bunch, not what you could call deep thinkers. Take them out of their comfort zone of sports and they're bound to say something like this. Really, most listeners probably didn't even pick up on the referance. )
I think you missed the whole point. It was not a sportscaster speaking, it was a commanding officer of the US army.

This was 1000 times worse than what Don Imus said, so I do not understand why he has not yet been fired.

And for anyone not fully informed on this story, it is not so much about what an army spokesman said, but about the fact that knowing Tillman was killed by friendly fire, the army set about covering this up and spreading a story that he died heroically under enemy fire. They even gave him a post-humous medal for bravery.

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 03:29 PM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

With that way of thinking, for him, terrorist suicides should be ok becouse they (that "branch" of islam) believe that after commiting suicide will go to an oasis full of virgin womans. Can life be better than that?

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 04:20 PM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I think you missed the whole point. It was not a sportscaster speaking, it was a commanding officer of the US army.

This was 1000 times worse than what Don Imus said, so I do not understand why he has not yet been fired.

And for anyone not fully informed on this story, it is not so much about what an army spokesman said, but about the fact that knowing Tillman was killed by friendly fire, the army set about covering this up and spreading a story that he died heroically under enemy fire. They even gave him a post-humous medal for bravery.
Oops! sorry about that. Its is a ignorant, prejudice thing to say. Of course, Imus had a talk show on the airwaves, this guy doesn't. Still, that general who made those comments about gays got in trouble (not fired though I don't think), so why not this guy? He can go on about Tilman's family not believing in an afterlife and supposedly that is the real reason they are pursuing the issue, and all the while is not the least bit remorseful about the lie he would have them all perpertrate.

I agree what the greater story is here. The cover up and the making him a hero. He still is a hero IMO-Giving up a pro-football position to be a soldier, being part of the effort to fight the Talliban. It wasn't the scripted senerio put forth by the "official account' but it shouldn't diminish his service. I applaud his family for wanting to know the truth and bringing it to the public. It certainly would be easeir for them to leave the public record showing their son, brother to be a hero. I also applaud Jessica Lynch for telling the truth about what happened to her. When will the govenerment learn they can't get away with such lies. The truth will come out eventrually.

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Last edited by Sparko1030; 04-27-2007 at 04:52 PM.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: Atheists Are Just Worm Dirt

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
The family of US soldier Tillman, who was killed by friendly fire, are outraged over the subsequent coverup and the lies put out by the Army that he died a hero, engaging the enemy.
Now that the truth is out, a US army spokesman has said on ESPN (Tillman was a professional football player that gave it all up to join the army after 9/11) that the real problem for the family is that ''they have to get their heads around the fact that their son was an atheist and therefore just worm dirt.''
So this is the army that is going to bring democracy to the rest of the world?
Imus is gone but so far the spokesman has not been punished.
Quote:
In an interview with ESPN.com, Kauzlarich said: "When you die, I mean, there is supposedly a better life, right? Well, if you are an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, and now he is no more — that is pretty hard to get your head around that. So I don't know how an atheist thinks. I can only imagine that that would be pretty tough."

Your quote is quite different from the source that Lau provide (btw, thanks Lau) which makes a HUGE difference to me.

It's a fact that after we died, our bodies are just worm dirt. I'm Catholic and was reminded of that every Ash Wednesday. Your quote implied that the guy considers Tillmans are worm dirt because they are atheists but what actually said there was after Tillman died, he's just worm dirt because atheists do not believe in spirit exists after body gone.
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