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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-15-2005, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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A journalist actually dissing Roger

Thought this deserved its own thread.
I have yet to see a journalist piece like this, which actually disses Roger and attributes his success at Wimbledon to lack of competition. Ivanisevic better server, Sampras better everything, Roger extremely talented but thriving because the tour doesnt have enough depth

Federer at Wimbledon: No Sampras
By Baird Hull
Published on Tuesday, July 12, 2005

Associated Press

For the third consecutive year, Roger Federer won Wimbledon. This has brought to bear the inevitable discussions of Federer's greatness and his place in history. Announcers have claimed that Federer possesses the complete game and that he could be the greatest talent ever to have played. The Swiss sensation is only 23, and has won five majors, which puts him on par to possibly reach Pete Sampras' record of 14 slam titles. At Wimbledon this year, Federer was never seriously challenged and beat Andy Roddick with apparent ease. Federer is the only player since Sampras to enter Wimbledon each year as the overwhelming favorite.

Despite Federer's record at Wimbledon and the other slams, his accomplishments are less impressive when one looks at the lack of diversity in the men's game today. Namely, the tour lacks serve and volleyers, who are especially dangerous on the grass at Wimbledon. At this year's Wimbledon, the three semifinalists other than Roger Federer were Lleyton Hewitt, Andy Roddick and Thomas Johansson. All three of these players are basically baseliners. Lleyton Hewitt is essentially a grinder -- he wins matches by running from side to side at the baseline. Andy Roddick, despite his powerful serve, also resides at the baseline, trying to mask a backhand which is shaky at its best. Thomas Johansson is pretty much the standard male baseliner of the 1990s who had a hot tournament.

None of these men possess the talent to have made it to the second week of Wimbledon during earlier generations. If one looks at the recent list of champions, one will find that John McEnroe, Boris Becker and Pete Sampras clearly dominated the event over the past 25 years. All three of these champions possessed great all-around games and were capable of dominating at the net. Other players with notable Wimbledon careers were Goran Ivanesevic and Patrick Rafter. Ivanesevic was an all-around player with a great serve, while Rafter was an all-around player with a great volley.

There is great evidence that these players were far greater grass court players than the players that are dominating Wimbledon these days.

To begin with, Thomas Johansson, Wimbledon semifinalist, has been playing grand slams since 1994. In all of his years, he was never able to make it past the fourth round. In his younger, fresher days he was always stopped short of truly making it deep into the tournament by better players. Also, Roger Federer, who had already been picked as the next potential great, lost to Tim Henman in 2001 in the middle of a run which put him as the favorite to win Wimbledon that year. This alone is clear evidence that Roger Federer would not have been able to dominate in years past.

The best way, however, to judge the competitiveness of today's grass court players versus the competitiveness of grass court players in years past is by a stroke by stroke analysis. Andy Roddick, who has indisputably been the second-best grass court player over the last three years, essentially possesses two strokes: the serve and the forehand. On both shots he possesses mind-numbing power. Unfortunately, he has neither a backhand nor a volley to provide a strong supporting cast. Even on his serve, his most feared weapon, he clearly lags behind players in the past. Although he can hit a 150 mph rocket, he has never put up the numbers that Sampras and Ivanesevic were able to do with 125 mph serves.

Even Federer himself is not a strong matchup against players of the past. Federer is often praised as an all-court player who is great at every shot. Federer does possess a good serve, which has gotten better over the last few years, a good volley, a good backhand, and a great forehand. However, he does not possess nearly as good a serve as Ivanesevic, who won Wimbledon only once, nor does he possess nearly as good a volley as Rafter, who never won Wimbledon. In addition, he falls behind Sampras in nearly every category. Sampras indisputably possessed a better serve, a better volley and a better half volley. Federer is probably a better overall groundstroker, being that he has a better backhand, but his forehand is not as punishing a stroke as was Sampras'.

What does all of this mean? Roger Federer is an extremely talented player, but his dominance at the All England Lawn and Tennis Club has come at a time when the competition is far less tough. Federer has emerged as the king of a new breed of baseliners who cannot take advantage of the grass as in days past.
http://www.thedartmouth.com/article....=2005071203010

Last edited by mitalidas; 07-15-2005 at 03:37 AM.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-15-2005, 04:16 AM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitalidas
Thought this deserved its own thread.
http://www.thedartmouth.com/article....=2005071203010
It doesn't . J/k . It has already been posted.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...48#post1971748
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-15-2005, 06:49 AM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

This is bullshit. Fuck him. He is a Roger HATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-15-2005, 01:53 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

I posted this article a few days back, and included numerous comments from former #1 players who talked about the greatness of Roger's game. I think these guys know what they're talking about. During the Wimbledon final on the BBC Jimmy Connors said he couldn't even comprehend some of the shots Roger pulled of, especially those where he was far behind the baseline. Heck, even Pete Sampras himself said there were areas where Roger is better than he was. I don't remember who he gave the interview to, but he said Roger's forehand was just as good as his, his backhand was better and Roger stayed back better. Where he gave himself the edge was the serve. Even more recently during Wimbledon Pete made comments to a British newspaper about how he thought Roger would win it again and that would give him the confidence to think he can break his (Pete's) record. He also said that when he played Roger in 2001 he could see then what a complete player he was. I think it's pointless to debate who's better (Roger or Pete) because they're games are so different. For the most part Roger's a baseliner whereas Pete came in a lot more and was much more a serve/volley type player. But for this guy to say Pete was all around better because he wasn't a baseliner is ridiculous. OK he may prefer serve/volley tennis to what's being played now, but that alone doesn't make one player better than another.

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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-15-2005, 05:36 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Clam down~~ Forget it~
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-15-2005, 05:44 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Interesting that you choose to perceive it as 'Roger-hating'. If the journo is criticising anyone, he is cristicising the rest of the men's tour. Saying Roger's dominance on grass is magnified by the one-dimensional play of his 'challengers'.

It's not hating. It's putting forward an alternate point of view.

We wouldn't ask a rose that grew from the concrete why it had damaged petals... we would all celebrate its tenacity, we would love its will to reach the sun, well, we are the roses, this is the concrete and these are my damaged petals, dont ask me why - thank God, and ask me how".

Tupac Shakur

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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-15-2005, 05:51 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Also may Chinese tennis fans do not like Roger
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 03:30 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Quote:
Also, Roger Federer, who had already been picked as the next potential great, lost to Tim Henman in 2001 in the middle of a run which put him as the favorite to win Wimbledon that year. This alone is clear evidence that Roger Federer would not have been able to dominate in years past.
How is that "clear" evidence? Why not use the same logic and mention Rogi beating Sampras that year itself and being "clear" evidence he can dominate in years past? Or why not talk about Rogi crashing out 1st rds in 2002/3, and conclude not even dominating in pasts, he certainly can never win Wimby even in current time

Quote:
Even Federer himself is not a strong matchup against players of the past. Federer is often praised as an all-court player who is great at every shot. Federer does possess a good serve, which has gotten better over the last few years, a good volley, a good backhand, and a great forehand. However, he does not possess nearly as good a serve as Ivanesevic, who won Wimbledon only once, nor does he possess nearly as good a volley as Rafter, who never won Wimbledon.
This writer just too funny. Talk about Rogi being all court player, and then conclude he's not good match up vs Goran coz serves not as good, or Rafter coz volley not as good. What about other aspects of the game then?

Quote:
In addition, he falls behind Sampras in nearly every category. Sampras indisputably possessed a better serve, a better volley and a better half volley. Federer is probably a better overall groundstroker, being that he has a better backhand, but his forehand is not as punishing a stroke as was Sampras'.
and of course while saying these, the author will selectively choose not to mention the only meeting between these 2 on grass

Quote:
What does all of this mean? Roger Federer is an extremely talented player, but his dominance at the All England Lawn and Tennis Club has come at a time when the competition is far less tough. Federer has emerged as the king of a new breed of baseliners who cannot take advantage of the grass as in days past.
Honestly it isn't that difficult an alternative point of view to view Rogi's domination in Wimby, if the author can back it up with more in-depth analysis than some of these laughable "clear" evidence he put up with
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 03:59 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by allanah
Interesting that you choose to perceive it as 'Roger-hating'. If the journo is criticising anyone, he is cristicising the rest of the men's tour. Saying Roger's dominance on grass is magnified by the one-dimensional play of his 'challengers'.

It's not hating. It's putting forward an alternate point of view.
Yes, he's going after the entire mens tour, but at the same time that is taking a shot at Roger. He's basically saying the only reason Roger looks good is because everyone else sucks. Of course that is bs, but like you said an alternate point of view.

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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 04:14 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

hi~!
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 05:07 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Most probably the author is still living in the past. There's a reason why s&v style is dying. The ATP tour is a bit like a wild forest where only the strongest survive. It's not by chance Henman saying that a s&v player will never win Wimbledon again. Slower surfaces, racket technology, generally better returning and passing on the tour are things to blame. I feel that to be successful a s&v player needs consistently to serve in 145-150mp/h on the lines these days and be a very proficient volleyer (combine athletism and soft hands). We see that Dent's 140+ bad placed serves are getting eaten consistently even by average returners.

Some quotes from the top of my head:

Nalbandian " I don't care for s&v players"

Safin "It's easy(to play s&v), you just return into their feet and pass". LOL

As for Ivanisevic or Rafter, both wouldn't stand a chance against Federer of today. Ivanisevic is 0-2 against him, enough said. Rafter is leading 3-0, but their last meeting on grass in 2001 was a very close encounter, and Federer has improved a lot since. I'll give Rafter the edge on volleys, but in every other aspect of the game Federer is more superior. Federer's improved return of serve ( not to mention mentality) would make a difference today. He makes players work hard on almost every service game, and it wasn't the case in the past.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lsy
How is that "clear" evidence? Why not use the same logic and mention Rogi beating Sampras that year itself and being "clear" evidence he can dominate in years past? Or why not talk about Rogi crashing out 1st rds in 2002/3, and conclude not even dominating in pasts, he certainly can never win Wimby even in current time This writer just too funny. Talk about Rogi being all court player, and then conclude he's not good match up vs Goran coz serves not as good, or Rafter coz volley not as good. What about other aspects of the game then
Right on. I agree with everything you've said.

Last edited by ExpectedWinner; 07-17-2005 at 06:35 PM.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-17-2005, 05:10 PM
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Talking Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Report said :

Roger Federer take us to his house beside Wimby, we ate breakfast and talk.
He is so close to people and so nice guy.
That's why he is a more Great champion than Sampras~!

Roger~!!!! You are so Great~!
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 11:21 AM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Suktuen why don't more people like Roger in China?
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 11:36 AM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUKTUEN
Also may Chinese tennis fans do not like Roger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk
Suktuen why don't more people like Roger in China?
I don't think this is true, because this article wasn't posted long ago...

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-18-2005, 03:33 PM
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Re: A journalist actually dissing Roger

I just waisted 5 minutes of my life reading this article.

"I think that now and until the end of my career, I can really play with my mind at peace, and no longer hear that I've never won Roland Garros." - Roger Federer
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